[email protected]

First of all you are definitely on the right track. Your DD sounds like a
happy, healthy little girl who is loved and encouraged enough at home that she
feels free to follow her passions. My advice is to talk with your daughter
about this. 8 years old is not too young to understand that some people feel
that there is only one way to do things (usually the way that they are doing
them) and that while they are trying to be helpful, their actions and
comments can sometimes cause hurt feelings and frustration. Let her know that
while some aspects of the class may be really fun and interesting, there may be
aspects that are difficult for her. Let her know that the teacher may (and
probably will) expect things from her that she just isn't able to do right now.
I'd tell her that she can continue in the class and enjoy the fun stuff and
try not to get frustrated by the other stuff, or the two of you can find
ways of incorporating some of the fun service projects into your family life.
If she decides to continue, I would absolutely pull your "friend" aside and
tell her about your talk with your DD and that, despite not enjoying the
textbook activities and such, DD has made the decision to stick with the class in
order to participate in the service projects, etc. Let her know you are
supporting DD's decision and that you expect your friend to be considerate and
respectful of your DD. Tell her that if she has a problem, she should discuss
it with you. Under no circumstances should she try to shame or embarrass your
daughter. If your friend has a problem with your daughter not being "on
level" with the other children, then maybe the class isn't a good fit. She has
set the class up in a certain way and may not be willing to compromise for
one child. Hopefully, she will be able to overlook the imagined "holes" in
your DD's education and keep her opinions to herself so that your DD can enjoy
herself. Just my humble (yet rather long. LOL) opinion. Good luck.
Wendy in FL



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

m59z85

Hopefully, she will be able to overlook the imagined "holes" in
> your DD's education and keep her opinions to herself so that your DD
can enjoy
> herself. Just my humble (yet rather long. LOL) opinion. Good luck.
> Wendy in FL


Thank you Wendy for your reply. I think you are right and I will talk
with my DD about it some more. DD told me that if the teacher insists
on worksheets again she doesn't want to be in the class. I told her
that was fine. I believe the teacher doesn't want to accomodate my DD
but wants to "out" her as the non-reader she now is. I will talk with
her about it and tell her my DD has my total support. I told my
husband that I am concerned the teacher may call CPS on us!

Anyway, thank you to you and the group.

Linda from VA

Lisa Heyman

Neither of my girls were reading at 8 - both, much later. There are things
that I have done to protect them from the damage other people may have had
on their self esteem.



1. I remain present in any circumstances that might require reading,
writing, forms to be filled out, etc. If a parent is not welcome in
attendance than we have no desire to participate in the program. I define
our *homeschooling* as *family learning.* We all learn together. I
sometimes find myself explaining to "educators" how this stimulates intense
conversations making cross connections from one activity/subject/experience
to another. The importance of these cross connections is a concept never
denied by an *educator.*
2. I've been known to tell facilitators of programs that my daughter
does not read *aloud* - so please do not ask her to read *aloud*. She won't
be able to read aloud in front of a group and it will only make *everyone*
uncomfortable in a situation and that doesn't need to happen.
3. I've reminded my kids that they are always learning to read. So if
someone asks or questions them on this ability they can confidently and
truthfully respond by saying *I am learning to read.*
4. The kids and I have had many, many conversations over the years on
how everyone learns different things at different times in different ways.
And that one of the beauties of home/unschooling, unlike school, is that
they don't need to learn anything on anyone else's time frame but their own.
This conversation is sometimes had in front of their peers or a mixed group
of folks. This conversation is so ingrained in my kids and anyone who knows
us that folks who we spend time with are accepting of this. Or we don't
spend much time with them <g>.
5. And when it comes to my mother - well - I don't leave my kids alone
with people (especially family members) who test them. The last time she
asked what I am doing about my dd's reading, I told her she is being
tutored. Just didn't tell her what that *tutoring* looked like<g>.



I've thought of myself as my daughters' reader, just as a deaf person might
have an interpreter, my daughter has had a reader!



Lisa Heyman



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AromaRonna

I am blown away by this group. Even though my daughter is only two, it's amazing how
the"competition of others" starts so young, as well as the way parents (including myself)
"discipline." I really like these suggestions about being our children's advocates.
I also appreciated the willful child thread because as LilaRose is becomming more herself, I
have to watch myself from threatening, if you don't... then we won't.... I notice I do this
more if I am feeling in ahurry, hungry etc. I am so grateful for the wisdom and honesty
in this group.
In regards to our children having a meaing behind hitting, yelling, perhaps offending or
hurting another child, I am still having difficulty understanding the balance of letting the
children ( in my case 2-4 years ols usually) work it out themselves, acknowledge the child
with the so called behavior while supporting the child who was perhaps hurt, physically or
emotionally. I understand that each circumstance is different but if anyone has any
grneral or specific suggestions, it would be appreciated.
Also how have some of you handled your child being pushed hard by an older child and
the mother was no where to be seen? My husband was there asked the girl why she
pushed our daughter and she shrugged her shoulders and he asked our daughter to tell
the girls not to hit her. We moved on and said nothing to the mother, but should I have
said something to the mother? Bearing this in mind, when we are around this child she
takes thinks from my daughter and tells her what she can and cannot do. LilaRose holds
her own for the most part but it broke my heart to watch her get pushed pretty hard by
this bigger child. We don't chose to socialize with this family but they are a part of play
group where we really like the other families. Thanks for listening.
Ronna

--- In [email protected], "Lisa Heyman" <Lmanathome@...> wrote:
>
> Neither of my girls were reading at 8 - both, much later. There are things
> that I have done to protect them from the damage other people may have had
> on their self esteem.
>
>
>
> 1. I remain present in any circumstances that might require reading,
> writing, forms to be filled out, etc. If a parent is not welcome in
> attendance than we have no desire to participate in the program. I define
> our *homeschooling* as *family learning.* We all learn together. I
> sometimes find myself explaining to "educators" how this stimulates intense
> conversations making cross connections from one activity/subject/experience
> to another. The importance of these cross connections is a concept never
> denied by an *educator.*
> 2. I've been known to tell facilitators of programs that my daughter
> does not read *aloud* - so please do not ask her to read *aloud*. She won't
> be able to read aloud in front of a group and it will only make *everyone*
> uncomfortable in a situation and that doesn't need to happen.
> 3. I've reminded my kids that they are always learning to read. So if
> someone asks or questions them on this ability they can confidently and
> truthfully respond by saying *I am learning to read.*
> 4. The kids and I have had many, many conversations over the years on
> how everyone learns different things at different times in different ways.
> And that one of the beauties of home/unschooling, unlike school, is that
> they don't need to learn anything on anyone else's time frame but their own.
> This conversation is sometimes had in front of their peers or a mixed group
> of folks. This conversation is so ingrained in my kids and anyone who knows
> us that folks who we spend time with are accepting of this. Or we don't
> spend much time with them <g>.
> 5. And when it comes to my mother - well - I don't leave my kids alone
> with people (especially family members) who test them. The last time she
> asked what I am doing about my dd's reading, I told her she is being
> tutored. Just didn't tell her what that *tutoring* looked like<g>.
>
>
>
> I've thought of myself as my daughters' reader, just as a deaf person might
> have an interpreter, my daughter has had a reader!
>
>
>
> Lisa Heyman
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dana Hayden

Lisa Heyman wrote:
.There are things that I have done to protect them from the damage
other people may have had on their self esteem.
> > 1. I remain present in any circumstances that might require reading,
> writing, forms to be filled out, etc.

Hi-
I have been reading here for many months, but I don't usually
post...here goes.
The above statement reminded me of attending a birthday party with my
then 9 year old daughter at a neighbor/friends house. There were six
other "schooled" girls and the mom of the birthday girls was a
teacher. The theme of the party was a murder mystery/Nancy Drew type
of deal. Each guest received a little book for their character to read
aloud to the group to look for clues and solve the mystery.
I knew my daughter would not be able to read aloud so I asked her if
she would like me to come along to the party and read for her - she
said yes! It helped her feel comfortable about the reading, as well as
feeling a little less shy having never met most of the guests. At the
party, I snuggled in next to her, sat back, and when it was her turn
to read "clues" I just read for her - no big deal. She didn't mind
and the other guests (and the teacher/mom) adjusted quickly to me
being there and didn't make my daughter feel less comfortable for
bringing me along.


> 4. The kids and I have had many, many conversations over the years on
> how everyone learns different things at different times in different ways.
> And that one of the beauties of home/unschooling, unlike school, is that
> they don't need to learn anything on anyone else's time frame but their
> own.


My daughter is 11 and has little/no interest in learning to read. She
loves books on tape, browsing through books of all kinds, and belongs
to a book club at our library. She plays computer Scrabble (using
hints) and someone reads for her if we play board games that require
reading. She is very comfortable in stating that she will read when
she is ready and at her own pace - she loves to state that she is
"autodidactict". I love that she knows she can ask for help reading
when she needs it (to play MY SIMS on the WII for example) and never
has to worry about being shamed. I believe she has all the skills she
needs to be her perfect 11 year old self - right now in this moment.
Reading books to herself is only one way for her to access the world.

So far, grandparentsor others, have not made any negative comments. I
think because it is not obvious to an outsider when they talk to her.
She has been read to or listened to sooo many great books and is
interersted in so many cool topics that they see all that she IS, and
not what she may be "behind" in.

I have definately had my moments of panic and anxiety about the issue
- but then I remember to trust that she is blossoming at her own pace
and it is my job to continue to provide the fertile ground for her to
do so.

Dana

Sandra Dodd

-=-I am still having difficulty understanding the balance of letting the
children ( in my case 2-4 years ols usually) work it out themselves,
acknowledge the child
with the so called behavior while supporting the child who was
perhaps hurt, physically or
emotionally.-=-

I don't think "work it out yourself" is a good thing for kids. I
think it's a justification schools use for not supervising better and
that babysitting grandmothers have used to defend themselves against
having to actually play with kids or even watch them.

If an adult you didn't know treated your child badly would you let
them work it out?
And how much worse to try to "work it out" when both kids are too
young to have working-it-out tools and experience!

-=-if anyone has any
grneral or specific suggestions, it would be appreciated.-=-

This is about siblings, but can work with friends too, sometimes.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting

-=-Also how have some of you handled your child being pushed hard by
an older child and
the mother was no where to be seen? My husband was there asked the
girl why she
pushed our daughter and she shrugged her shoulders and he asked our
daughter to tell
the girls not to hit her. -=-

I wouldn't ask why she pushed. I'd say "Don't push." You don't have
to say it in a threatening way. Just in a definite, for sure, polite
way. If I knew the mother I might say something to her. If I knew
the mother I'd probably know the child too, though.

I usually made a suggestion about how the kids could play together,
or lure them toward something different. If they were fighting over
one swing or a shovel or whatever, say something to make the slides
look sparkly, or offer them something to drink, or something to just
break that moment's tension.

The same way a kid doesn't need to learn to read in a hurry, they
don't need to learn to get along in a hurry. You can protect them as
they learn it gradually.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jenstarc4

>
> The same way a kid doesn't need to learn to read in a hurry, they
> don't need to learn to get along in a hurry. You can protect them
as
> they learn it gradually.
>
> Sandra
>

My youngest daughter has a hard time getting along with other kids.
It's not something I worry about much. I've seen her get along
tremendously with some kids and not others, then go for months not
having any social contact with other kids her own age, and suddenly
gets along better.

It takes time. Some kids are more empathic of others, some aren't,
even older kids. My youngest is 6, and is just now starting to feel
empathic of others. It wouldn't have occured to her to feel badly
about something that she did to another person, even if you told her
or explained why it was wrong. It was better to say "play nicely",
or "don't do.....", anything else was going to go in one ear and out
the other.

In the mean time, we've tried to play with other kids that are a
little more "thick skinned". I don't like to play referee. I do try
to stay in the moment, though, so that I'm not just putting out
fires, I'm keeping the fires from starting in the first place.

My older daughter never had these kind of issues. She was kind of
opposite, the one who never got her turn because she patiently
waited. She was quiet and shy and VERY empathic of others, her sense
of fairness eventually made her the most popular kid to play with in
the neighborhood. That and the fact that she had all the good
ideas! I saw other kids going to Chamille to settle disagreements
because they knew she was fair. That was such an amazing and
powerful thing.

It's so much about personality. Unschooling works so wonderfully
because each person is able to use their strengths to their greatest
advantage and not worry so much on the things they aren't as good at,
knowing that it will happen in its own way and time.

Lisa

--- In [email protected], "AromaRonna" <aromaronna@...>
wrote:
> I am still having difficulty understanding the balance of letting
the
> children ( in my case 2-4 years ols usually) work it out
themselves, acknowledge the child
> with the so called behavior while supporting the child who was
perhaps hurt, physically or
> emotionally. I understand that each circumstance is different but
if anyone has any
> grneral or specific suggestions, it would be appreciated.

When there was conflict that was hurtful between two young kids i
would start by holding them on my lap. I might ask something
like, "what can we do here so that everyone is happy or has what they
need ?" I have found kids have the best solutions. Brainstorming
with kids is remarkable. They share things you'd never expect - from
what their perception of the situation is to what would really work.

> Also how have some of you handled your child being pushed hard by
an older child and
> the mother was no where to be seen? My husband was there asked the
girl why she
> pushed our daughter and she shrugged her shoulders and he asked our
daughter to tell
> the girls not to hit her. We moved on and said nothing to the
mother, but should I have
> said something to the mother?

There is a way to ask for help from another parent without making it
about their child being the problem.
Perhaps asking the mom to remain present as there seems to be some
conflict between the two girls and maybe if she was there it would be
helpful in figuring out how to best help the girls get through it.
Sometimes we need to look at our childs disposition that may be part
of creating the situatoin. And perhaps its not the best situation
for our child to be put into.

Lisa Heyman