Help in the "nonnutritive" food department... (long)
[email protected]
I need some help getting my (and DH's) concerns under control.
Before we found whole-life unschooling, Wyl was restricted with regard to
sugar when he was young (though he didn't really seem to care or ask for much),
and very restricted in/to "non-organic" foods up until he was about 4, then
it was "controlled". About the time that I had so much trouble with my
pregnancy with Storm (Wyl was about 5) and after he was born, attempts at
regulation/control were gone out the window (5 1/2 years old).
When we first started unschooling throughout our lives (instead of just
academically), I would buy candy, kind of based on a serving size (from the
package nutrition list) and doubling it, so he had 2 servings of candy per day *at
least*-if it went over, that was fine, but it had to be a minimum of 2 daily
servings until we went shopping again. We did this with snack foods (chips,
pretzels, etc.), candy, cookies and whatever other "not really nutritious"
foods he picked out at the store. Many of them were organic, and we (parents)
were cool with whatever he chose. He has a shelf (well, now its more than just
"a shelf") that it was all on, accessible whenever he wanted, no asking
required-BUT, if he ran out before grocery day, there was no more until we went
shopping. He ate everything in the first hours we got home, at first. Then, as
the weeks passed, it slowed down to where it was lasting until shopping day,
and sometimes even beyond, so I thought we had found our balance, there. Then
pop came into it (soda, soda pop, cola, carbonated drinks, fizzies-whatever
you call it where you are). It was limited to one a week. Then, I saw how it
started figuring largely in his life, and so we expanded that to a 4 pack per
shopping trip. Sometime within this period, we discovered his allergy to
HFCS, and so we have to make sure to buy things without it-sugar based soda
seems to be in the "all natural" realm and is very expensive, and expense had
figured largely into things in certain periods of our lives.
At least a year ago, we removed all non-money restrictions on candy (I'm
thinking its more like 2 years, but I'm not positive). I'm not sure when the
upswing in candy consumption began, but I'm thinking 6-9 months. Candy does not
last a week in our house, no matter how much we buy. There's been weeks when
we could afford it, that I've bought 2 of the biggest packages of candy he
could find (his choice) at the warehouse club-we're talking about $25 just in
candy, so they were very large-I didn't even check the servings. Sometimes
we'd add a small item or two that he requested while shopping at another store
as well. Still, gone within a week. It concerns me because he truly fills up
on it and isn't hungry for nutritious food. Some days I can manage to get
breakfast to him before he's had more than 1 or 2 pieces of candy, and then he at
least gets one full meal in, but he seems to "live for candy". I've tried
big bags of candy, large portions, individual little packages (snack size, fun
size-like for Halloween). I've tried designating "Wyl's candy" and "family
candy" (he eats all his and then starts asking for the small bit that is
"family candy"). I've tried putting it all out in a large bowl right on their table
so it is always in arm's reach, on the shelves they can reach and up high
where I can only reach-well, until Wyl started climbing-so I could get it for
them and say "yes" every time they asked. He seems to get some nutrition,
because he has energy and looks healthy, but I do have a *very* slight concern
that he's starting to get winded while playing and he's starting to look a wee
bit flabby around the torso. Nothing I'm highly concerned about, just
*noticing*. Its mostly the volume of consumption and the possible lack of nutrition
that I'm mildly concerned about. And slightly annoyed at the constant layer
of candy wrappers all over the house, as well as discarded/dropped sticky
candy bits in the couch and carpet. (Storm tends to put a piece in his mouth,
bite down, decide he doesn't like it and then deposit it in the most convenient
place-for him.)
Pop, however, is a biggie for me. He often drinks so much, he hasn't room to
eat anything nutritious. I was really excited last week to find sugar-pop at
Super Walmart! It was 2 days after we had done our grocery shopping, so I had
already gotten his 4 pack of bottles and 6 pack of cans (probably $10-13 for
both), but I was just SO excited finding it somewhere more accessible than
our organic market AND under $3 for an 8-pack of cans that I bought it, too.
Within 5 days (I don't pay close attention to how much he drinks by the day,
because it would freak me out, so I try to ignore it as much as humanly
possible), all 18 containers of pop were gone. Add to that the minor annoyance of
pop cans that he likes to bend and twist apart and leave lying on the floor
all sharp and pointy, pop tabs torn off & bottle caps and left everywhere, and
whole cans and bottles tossed on the floor, behind the couch, on the
furniture, in the yard-wherever it lands. I'm NOT comfortable with chemical
sugar-substitute sweeteners, but he's found a flavored water that has aspartame in it,
and I will buy him one a week-no more. He's not offered to buy any pop on
his own with his allowance, but I certainly couldn't say no to that... (He does
occasionally insist on buying candy with his allowance, even when we offer
to buy it for him.) I also have serious concerns about the phosphorous and
its affect on the calcium in bones-especially growing bones, and that is really
the "big green monster" of my worry about pop. I've talked to DH about
brewing pop at home so we can avoid that all together, and he's got the equipment
and is willing, but his work just doesn't allow him much time for stuff like
that. I can't find a brewed soda anywhere to buy.
This is worrying both DH *AND* I, and sometimes DH will gripe to Wyl about
it. Every once in a while (like last week with the 18 pops), I will casually
comment on the amount/time period. I know sometimes I'm just not aware of my
consumption of a thing until its brought to my attention, so I'll mention
it-but without judgment. Occasionally (every 3 months or so?? not sure), I will
mention my concern over calcium, and more often, I will put in my 2 cents worth
about chemical sweeteners-though not while he's enjoying his flavored water,
or near that time... usually when he's asking for the second one in a week.
What's worse is that DH keeps some diet pop in the house for when he's home
(even though I express my concerns to him about chemical sweeteners, too-he
choses to keep drinking it) in 20 oz bottles and Wyl has started drinking DH's
pop. He'll take one DH hasn't finished and finish it, and last week, he
opened all 5 of the bottles DH had here and took even amounts out of them, so they
all looked equal, but the pop level was below the label. The "sneaking" is
my alarm bell-we definitely need to adjust something somewhere.
Oddly enough, sometimes, its not the *consumption* that seems to be the big
thing. He'll swish it in his mouth a long time before drinking it. Or he'll
put some in his mouth and spit it in cool arcs in the yard or make wet patterns
on the porch or sidewalk. Sometimes, he'll shake one up and open it just to
watch the fizz go all over. Or just pour it out of the can/bottle to make
neat patterns. He must have used half his pop in this way about 3 weeks ago.
Last week, it was all drunk and drunk one right after the other, fast. Sometimes
it makes me think of chain-smoking... He chugs one down, leaves the can on
the table and goes for another-sometimes 3-5 in a row like this (not
sure-again, I try not to notice too much).
I know there's a line there somewhere between trust and protection and with
some things I'm good and I know that line, but with internal things like
nutrition and healthy bones that you can't *measure* damage or lack thereof, I
have a hard time with finding that line. Things that cause bone breakage,
sprains, scrapes, bruises, splinters, punctures, cuts, rashes, etc. I'm very good
at balancing information given and trusting that if something *does* happen,
I can cope, assess, do damage control, and reassure. I have loads of
information/experience tucked away in my head about that, having had a large share of
injuries as a kid (and since) and dealing with them. I'm sure a good portion
of this whole thing is we parents needing to relax a bit and deal, but I
don't know *how* to do that.
Peace,
Sang
Wyl 4/99 and Storm 10/04
Oh, an afterthought-we have parades here where they throw candy to the kids
along the parade route and tootsie rolls are very cheap and most parade units
throw those. Both boys *have* had their fill of tootsie rolls (at least the
chocolate ones), and neither will eat them anymore.
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Before we found whole-life unschooling, Wyl was restricted with regard to
sugar when he was young (though he didn't really seem to care or ask for much),
and very restricted in/to "non-organic" foods up until he was about 4, then
it was "controlled". About the time that I had so much trouble with my
pregnancy with Storm (Wyl was about 5) and after he was born, attempts at
regulation/control were gone out the window (5 1/2 years old).
When we first started unschooling throughout our lives (instead of just
academically), I would buy candy, kind of based on a serving size (from the
package nutrition list) and doubling it, so he had 2 servings of candy per day *at
least*-if it went over, that was fine, but it had to be a minimum of 2 daily
servings until we went shopping again. We did this with snack foods (chips,
pretzels, etc.), candy, cookies and whatever other "not really nutritious"
foods he picked out at the store. Many of them were organic, and we (parents)
were cool with whatever he chose. He has a shelf (well, now its more than just
"a shelf") that it was all on, accessible whenever he wanted, no asking
required-BUT, if he ran out before grocery day, there was no more until we went
shopping. He ate everything in the first hours we got home, at first. Then, as
the weeks passed, it slowed down to where it was lasting until shopping day,
and sometimes even beyond, so I thought we had found our balance, there. Then
pop came into it (soda, soda pop, cola, carbonated drinks, fizzies-whatever
you call it where you are). It was limited to one a week. Then, I saw how it
started figuring largely in his life, and so we expanded that to a 4 pack per
shopping trip. Sometime within this period, we discovered his allergy to
HFCS, and so we have to make sure to buy things without it-sugar based soda
seems to be in the "all natural" realm and is very expensive, and expense had
figured largely into things in certain periods of our lives.
At least a year ago, we removed all non-money restrictions on candy (I'm
thinking its more like 2 years, but I'm not positive). I'm not sure when the
upswing in candy consumption began, but I'm thinking 6-9 months. Candy does not
last a week in our house, no matter how much we buy. There's been weeks when
we could afford it, that I've bought 2 of the biggest packages of candy he
could find (his choice) at the warehouse club-we're talking about $25 just in
candy, so they were very large-I didn't even check the servings. Sometimes
we'd add a small item or two that he requested while shopping at another store
as well. Still, gone within a week. It concerns me because he truly fills up
on it and isn't hungry for nutritious food. Some days I can manage to get
breakfast to him before he's had more than 1 or 2 pieces of candy, and then he at
least gets one full meal in, but he seems to "live for candy". I've tried
big bags of candy, large portions, individual little packages (snack size, fun
size-like for Halloween). I've tried designating "Wyl's candy" and "family
candy" (he eats all his and then starts asking for the small bit that is
"family candy"). I've tried putting it all out in a large bowl right on their table
so it is always in arm's reach, on the shelves they can reach and up high
where I can only reach-well, until Wyl started climbing-so I could get it for
them and say "yes" every time they asked. He seems to get some nutrition,
because he has energy and looks healthy, but I do have a *very* slight concern
that he's starting to get winded while playing and he's starting to look a wee
bit flabby around the torso. Nothing I'm highly concerned about, just
*noticing*. Its mostly the volume of consumption and the possible lack of nutrition
that I'm mildly concerned about. And slightly annoyed at the constant layer
of candy wrappers all over the house, as well as discarded/dropped sticky
candy bits in the couch and carpet. (Storm tends to put a piece in his mouth,
bite down, decide he doesn't like it and then deposit it in the most convenient
place-for him.)
Pop, however, is a biggie for me. He often drinks so much, he hasn't room to
eat anything nutritious. I was really excited last week to find sugar-pop at
Super Walmart! It was 2 days after we had done our grocery shopping, so I had
already gotten his 4 pack of bottles and 6 pack of cans (probably $10-13 for
both), but I was just SO excited finding it somewhere more accessible than
our organic market AND under $3 for an 8-pack of cans that I bought it, too.
Within 5 days (I don't pay close attention to how much he drinks by the day,
because it would freak me out, so I try to ignore it as much as humanly
possible), all 18 containers of pop were gone. Add to that the minor annoyance of
pop cans that he likes to bend and twist apart and leave lying on the floor
all sharp and pointy, pop tabs torn off & bottle caps and left everywhere, and
whole cans and bottles tossed on the floor, behind the couch, on the
furniture, in the yard-wherever it lands. I'm NOT comfortable with chemical
sugar-substitute sweeteners, but he's found a flavored water that has aspartame in it,
and I will buy him one a week-no more. He's not offered to buy any pop on
his own with his allowance, but I certainly couldn't say no to that... (He does
occasionally insist on buying candy with his allowance, even when we offer
to buy it for him.) I also have serious concerns about the phosphorous and
its affect on the calcium in bones-especially growing bones, and that is really
the "big green monster" of my worry about pop. I've talked to DH about
brewing pop at home so we can avoid that all together, and he's got the equipment
and is willing, but his work just doesn't allow him much time for stuff like
that. I can't find a brewed soda anywhere to buy.
This is worrying both DH *AND* I, and sometimes DH will gripe to Wyl about
it. Every once in a while (like last week with the 18 pops), I will casually
comment on the amount/time period. I know sometimes I'm just not aware of my
consumption of a thing until its brought to my attention, so I'll mention
it-but without judgment. Occasionally (every 3 months or so?? not sure), I will
mention my concern over calcium, and more often, I will put in my 2 cents worth
about chemical sweeteners-though not while he's enjoying his flavored water,
or near that time... usually when he's asking for the second one in a week.
What's worse is that DH keeps some diet pop in the house for when he's home
(even though I express my concerns to him about chemical sweeteners, too-he
choses to keep drinking it) in 20 oz bottles and Wyl has started drinking DH's
pop. He'll take one DH hasn't finished and finish it, and last week, he
opened all 5 of the bottles DH had here and took even amounts out of them, so they
all looked equal, but the pop level was below the label. The "sneaking" is
my alarm bell-we definitely need to adjust something somewhere.
Oddly enough, sometimes, its not the *consumption* that seems to be the big
thing. He'll swish it in his mouth a long time before drinking it. Or he'll
put some in his mouth and spit it in cool arcs in the yard or make wet patterns
on the porch or sidewalk. Sometimes, he'll shake one up and open it just to
watch the fizz go all over. Or just pour it out of the can/bottle to make
neat patterns. He must have used half his pop in this way about 3 weeks ago.
Last week, it was all drunk and drunk one right after the other, fast. Sometimes
it makes me think of chain-smoking... He chugs one down, leaves the can on
the table and goes for another-sometimes 3-5 in a row like this (not
sure-again, I try not to notice too much).
I know there's a line there somewhere between trust and protection and with
some things I'm good and I know that line, but with internal things like
nutrition and healthy bones that you can't *measure* damage or lack thereof, I
have a hard time with finding that line. Things that cause bone breakage,
sprains, scrapes, bruises, splinters, punctures, cuts, rashes, etc. I'm very good
at balancing information given and trusting that if something *does* happen,
I can cope, assess, do damage control, and reassure. I have loads of
information/experience tucked away in my head about that, having had a large share of
injuries as a kid (and since) and dealing with them. I'm sure a good portion
of this whole thing is we parents needing to relax a bit and deal, but I
don't know *how* to do that.
Peace,
Sang
Wyl 4/99 and Storm 10/04
Oh, an afterthought-we have parades here where they throw candy to the kids
along the parade route and tootsie rolls are very cheap and most parade units
throw those. Both boys *have* had their fill of tootsie rolls (at least the
chocolate ones), and neither will eat them anymore.
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I sent the link to the respect article, but this has the stories I
was really thinking about:
http://sandradodd.com/spoiled
Sorry.
They're both applicable, though (and neither might seem like it on
first glance).
Specific food stories but lots of moms are linked here:
http://sandradodd.com/food
Sandra
was really thinking about:
http://sandradodd.com/spoiled
Sorry.
They're both applicable, though (and neither might seem like it on
first glance).
Specific food stories but lots of moms are linked here:
http://sandradodd.com/food
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-Some days I can manage to get
breakfast to him before he's had more than 1 or 2 pieces of candy,
and then he at
least gets one full meal in, but he seems to "live for candy"-=-
Your post was kind of exhausting. It felt like a flood of pressure,
counting, measurements, lack of approval and paranoia and allergy and
ingredients.
You wrote "I can cope, assess, do damage control, and reassure."
That sounds exhausting, too.
-=-I'm sure a good portion
of this whole thing is we parents needing to relax a bit and deal, but I
don't know *how* to do that. -=-
By breathing more slowly and deeply. By looking at your child
directly and gently and quietly, I think. There seems to be a load
of noise and activity and you seem to be seeing him through a filter
crowded with the names of ingredients, and of dangers about damage.
That in itself is guaranteed to be damaging. The other damage is
theoretical.
-=-Things that cause bone breakage,
sprains, scrapes, bruises, splinters, punctures, cuts, rashes, etc.-=-
Things like playing? Running?
My husband had several broken bones as a kid, was kicked by a horse
(stepped on, on his calf, actually, and it stayed funky), was on a
bike that had the brakes go out and he ended up under a bus and in
the hospital where he knew nothing of where he was but that they were
staying with "Uncle Ed" (his mom's brother, so different last name).
Marty was so much like him and so brave that we feared--or rather
*expected*--that Marty would be in the hospital, but he never has
been. We expected, and predicted, that Marty would be in jail for
reckless behavior. He's a good guy. He's 18 and no such thing.
Those predictions and fears did more damage to our view of him than
should have been done. We wasted our worrying.
But more, in general:
Limitations and labels, on the part of the parents, can make things
turn valuable and desirable.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
That's been our experience.
Give them so much of everything you have (especially attention and
trust) that they're not needy. If they seem needy, provide
lovingly, not grudgingly. Try not to send them the bill.
Sometimes I remind someone how much he has or what it cost, and just
about every time I regret it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
breakfast to him before he's had more than 1 or 2 pieces of candy,
and then he at
least gets one full meal in, but he seems to "live for candy"-=-
Your post was kind of exhausting. It felt like a flood of pressure,
counting, measurements, lack of approval and paranoia and allergy and
ingredients.
You wrote "I can cope, assess, do damage control, and reassure."
That sounds exhausting, too.
-=-I'm sure a good portion
of this whole thing is we parents needing to relax a bit and deal, but I
don't know *how* to do that. -=-
By breathing more slowly and deeply. By looking at your child
directly and gently and quietly, I think. There seems to be a load
of noise and activity and you seem to be seeing him through a filter
crowded with the names of ingredients, and of dangers about damage.
That in itself is guaranteed to be damaging. The other damage is
theoretical.
-=-Things that cause bone breakage,
sprains, scrapes, bruises, splinters, punctures, cuts, rashes, etc.-=-
Things like playing? Running?
My husband had several broken bones as a kid, was kicked by a horse
(stepped on, on his calf, actually, and it stayed funky), was on a
bike that had the brakes go out and he ended up under a bus and in
the hospital where he knew nothing of where he was but that they were
staying with "Uncle Ed" (his mom's brother, so different last name).
Marty was so much like him and so brave that we feared--or rather
*expected*--that Marty would be in the hospital, but he never has
been. We expected, and predicted, that Marty would be in jail for
reckless behavior. He's a good guy. He's 18 and no such thing.
Those predictions and fears did more damage to our view of him than
should have been done. We wasted our worrying.
But more, in general:
Limitations and labels, on the part of the parents, can make things
turn valuable and desirable.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
That's been our experience.
Give them so much of everything you have (especially attention and
trust) that they're not needy. If they seem needy, provide
lovingly, not grudgingly. Try not to send them the bill.
Sometimes I remind someone how much he has or what it cost, and just
about every time I regret it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
greenqueen72
Dear Sang~
Please don't misunderstand me here but I really don't understand what on
earth this has to do with unschooling other than the fact that you feel
unable/guilty to take hold of the situation in fear that taking charge
would somehow harm your son's self esteem or cause him to question
himself which in turn might have some future negative consequence that
he will be unable to work through. I have read enough other posts to
see that some people believe unschooling to mean we should place no
boundaries or restrictions on our children but I do not agree
completely with that thinking. Children need to know how to make a good
decision. I will go as far as to say they look for that direction and
leadership in parents at times.
Your child is addicted to sugar, colorings, additives etc.. Can't you
see that? I mean no disrespect but you are the parent and when a child
is in danger we as parents are to intercede on their behalf- protect
them. Perhaps you do not see the gravity of the situation. This is not
the occasional treat this is a huge problem. He can not make a good
choice for himself at this point. Something bigger than himself is now
in control- the sugar, etc. The whole situation has consumed you and
your family! You are spending a small fortune on this stuff. What are
you teaching him about proper money management and have you considered
the fact that you are supporting a terrible industry who's main
objective is to make money and create a generation of people addicted to
their products?
I understand this problem came on gradually but the mentality in the
beginning was wrong- IMO of course. There will be people who will
disagree with me but what I think you should do is 1st educate yourself
on the addictive/harmful nature of the ingredients within the candy,
soda etc- what you will find, among other things, is that when one is
consuming these products the brain & body in turn suffers greatly
rendering cognitive problems as well as a host of other terrible
symptoms of the addiction. I am not exaggerating here. What does
someone do when dealing with a person who is addicted to a substance-
well they certainly don't encourage and support it. When you are
educated you will be able to share the information with your DH and your
son. And when you have sat down and spoken with them you should try to
push off the fear that you can't place a boundary. Why not? You love him
and sometimes that means you have to step in. I have a friend who was
raised in a vegetarian household. Her parents never bought meat and
would not allow it in the home but would not restrict her when outside
the home. She had her carnivorous moments/ years when curiosity or just
plain convenience took over but has come back to her roots and she
respects her parents for there stand. It was their home after all. They
respected her and vise versa. Your stand will matter to him eventually.
He may be mad now but it is for his greater good.
I do understand the concern of many that if I place any restrictions
etc... that my kids will suffer but there are times, occasions when
someone has to take the helm. This, I believe, is one of those times.
Your concern should not be taken under control but rather the behavior.
" Before we found whole-life unschooling, Wyl was restricted with regard
to
sugar when he was young (though he didn't really seem to care or ask
for much),
and very restricted in/to "non-organic" foods up until he was about 4,
then
it was "controlled".
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!
In love,
Rachel
Check out:
Kid's soda consomption strongly linked to hyperactivity, mental problems
<http://www.newstarget.com/021945.html>
<http://http://www.newstarget.com/021808.html>
Sugar industry denies links <http://www.newstarget.com/002036.html>
New research shows cancer link <http://www.newstarget.com/001812.html>
Please don't misunderstand me here but I really don't understand what on
earth this has to do with unschooling other than the fact that you feel
unable/guilty to take hold of the situation in fear that taking charge
would somehow harm your son's self esteem or cause him to question
himself which in turn might have some future negative consequence that
he will be unable to work through. I have read enough other posts to
see that some people believe unschooling to mean we should place no
boundaries or restrictions on our children but I do not agree
completely with that thinking. Children need to know how to make a good
decision. I will go as far as to say they look for that direction and
leadership in parents at times.
Your child is addicted to sugar, colorings, additives etc.. Can't you
see that? I mean no disrespect but you are the parent and when a child
is in danger we as parents are to intercede on their behalf- protect
them. Perhaps you do not see the gravity of the situation. This is not
the occasional treat this is a huge problem. He can not make a good
choice for himself at this point. Something bigger than himself is now
in control- the sugar, etc. The whole situation has consumed you and
your family! You are spending a small fortune on this stuff. What are
you teaching him about proper money management and have you considered
the fact that you are supporting a terrible industry who's main
objective is to make money and create a generation of people addicted to
their products?
I understand this problem came on gradually but the mentality in the
beginning was wrong- IMO of course. There will be people who will
disagree with me but what I think you should do is 1st educate yourself
on the addictive/harmful nature of the ingredients within the candy,
soda etc- what you will find, among other things, is that when one is
consuming these products the brain & body in turn suffers greatly
rendering cognitive problems as well as a host of other terrible
symptoms of the addiction. I am not exaggerating here. What does
someone do when dealing with a person who is addicted to a substance-
well they certainly don't encourage and support it. When you are
educated you will be able to share the information with your DH and your
son. And when you have sat down and spoken with them you should try to
push off the fear that you can't place a boundary. Why not? You love him
and sometimes that means you have to step in. I have a friend who was
raised in a vegetarian household. Her parents never bought meat and
would not allow it in the home but would not restrict her when outside
the home. She had her carnivorous moments/ years when curiosity or just
plain convenience took over but has come back to her roots and she
respects her parents for there stand. It was their home after all. They
respected her and vise versa. Your stand will matter to him eventually.
He may be mad now but it is for his greater good.
I do understand the concern of many that if I place any restrictions
etc... that my kids will suffer but there are times, occasions when
someone has to take the helm. This, I believe, is one of those times.
Your concern should not be taken under control but rather the behavior.
" Before we found whole-life unschooling, Wyl was restricted with regard
to
sugar when he was young (though he didn't really seem to care or ask
for much),
and very restricted in/to "non-organic" foods up until he was about 4,
then
it was "controlled".
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!
In love,
Rachel
Check out:
Kid's soda consomption strongly linked to hyperactivity, mental problems
<http://www.newstarget.com/021945.html>
<http://http://www.newstarget.com/021808.html>
Sugar industry denies links <http://www.newstarget.com/002036.html>
New research shows cancer link <http://www.newstarget.com/001812.html>
--- In [email protected], Sanguinegirl83@... wrote:
>
>
> I need some help getting my (and DH's) concerns under control.
>
> Before we found whole-life unschooling, Wyl was restricted with regard
to
> sugar when he was young (though he didn't really seem to care or ask
for much),
> and very restricted in/to "non-organic" foods up until he was about 4,
then
> it was "controlled". About the time that I had so much trouble with
my
> pregnancy with Storm (Wyl was about 5) and after he was born,
attempts at
> regulation/control were gone out the window (5 1/2 years old).
>
> When we first started unschooling throughout our lives (instead of
just
> academically), I would buy candy, kind of based on a serving size
(from the
> package nutrition list) and doubling it, so he had 2 servings of candy
per day *at
> least*-if it went over, that was fine, but it had to be a minimum of 2
daily
> servings until we went shopping again. We did this with snack foods
(chips,
> pretzels, etc.), candy, cookies and whatever other "not really
nutritious"
> foods he picked out at the store. Many of them were organic, and we
(parents)
> were cool with whatever he chose. He has a shelf (well, now its more
than just
> "a shelf") that it was all on, accessible whenever he wanted, no
asking
> required-BUT, if he ran out before grocery day, there was no more
until we went
> shopping. He ate everything in the first hours we got home, at first.
Then, as
> the weeks passed, it slowed down to where it was lasting until
shopping day,
> and sometimes even beyond, so I thought we had found our balance,
there. Then
> pop came into it (soda, soda pop, cola, carbonated drinks,
fizzies-whatever
> you call it where you are). It was limited to one a week. Then, I saw
how it
> started figuring largely in his life, and so we expanded that to a 4
pack per
> shopping trip. Sometime within this period, we discovered his allergy
to
> HFCS, and so we have to make sure to buy things without it-sugar
based soda
> seems to be in the "all natural" realm and is very expensive, and
expense had
> figured largely into things in certain periods of our lives.
>
> At least a year ago, we removed all non-money restrictions on candy
(I'm
> thinking its more like 2 years, but I'm not positive). I'm not sure
when the
> upswing in candy consumption began, but I'm thinking 6-9 months.
Candy does not
> last a week in our house, no matter how much we buy. There's been
weeks when
> we could afford it, that I've bought 2 of the biggest packages of
candy he
> could find (his choice) at the warehouse club-we're talking about $25
just in
> candy, so they were very large-I didn't even check the servings.
Sometimes
> we'd add a small item or two that he requested while shopping at
another store
> as well. Still, gone within a week. It concerns me because he truly
fills up
> on it and isn't hungry for nutritious food. Some days I can manage to
get
> breakfast to him before he's had more than 1 or 2 pieces of candy,
and then he at
> least gets one full meal in, but he seems to "live for candy". I've
tried
> big bags of candy, large portions, individual little packages (snack
size, fun
> size-like for Halloween). I've tried designating "Wyl's candy" and
"family
> candy" (he eats all his and then starts asking for the small bit that
is
> "family candy"). I've tried putting it all out in a large bowl right
on their table
> so it is always in arm's reach, on the shelves they can reach and up
high
> where I can only reach-well, until Wyl started climbing-so I could
get it for
> them and say "yes" every time they asked. He seems to get some
nutrition,
> because he has energy and looks healthy, but I do have a *very*
slight concern
> that he's starting to get winded while playing and he's starting to
look a wee
> bit flabby around the torso. Nothing I'm highly concerned about, just
> *noticing*. Its mostly the volume of consumption and the possible
lack of nutrition
> that I'm mildly concerned about. And slightly annoyed at the constant
layer
> of candy wrappers all over the house, as well as discarded/dropped
sticky
> candy bits in the couch and carpet. (Storm tends to put a piece in
his mouth,
> bite down, decide he doesn't like it and then deposit it in the most
convenient
> place-for him.)
>
> Pop, however, is a biggie for me. He often drinks so much, he hasn't
room to
> eat anything nutritious. I was really excited last week to find
sugar-pop at
> Super Walmart! It was 2 days after we had done our grocery shopping,
so I had
> already gotten his 4 pack of bottles and 6 pack of cans (probably
$10-13 for
> both), but I was just SO excited finding it somewhere more accessible
than
> our organic market AND under $3 for an 8-pack of cans that I bought
it, too.
> Within 5 days (I don't pay close attention to how much he drinks by
the day,
> because it would freak me out, so I try to ignore it as much as
humanly
> possible), all 18 containers of pop were gone. Add to that the minor
annoyance of
> pop cans that he likes to bend and twist apart and leave lying on the
floor
> all sharp and pointy, pop tabs torn off & bottle caps and left
everywhere, and
> whole cans and bottles tossed on the floor, behind the couch, on the
> furniture, in the yard-wherever it lands. I'm NOT comfortable with
chemical
> sugar-substitute sweeteners, but he's found a flavored water that has
aspartame in it,
> and I will buy him one a week-no more. He's not offered to buy any
pop on
> his own with his allowance, but I certainly couldn't say no to
that... (He does
> occasionally insist on buying candy with his allowance, even when we
offer
> to buy it for him.) I also have serious concerns about the
phosphorous and
> its affect on the calcium in bones-especially growing bones, and that
is really
> the "big green monster" of my worry about pop. I've talked to DH
about
> brewing pop at home so we can avoid that all together, and he's got
the equipment
> and is willing, but his work just doesn't allow him much time for
stuff like
> that. I can't find a brewed soda anywhere to buy.
>
> This is worrying both DH *AND* I, and sometimes DH will gripe to Wyl
about
> it. Every once in a while (like last week with the 18 pops), I will
casually
> comment on the amount/time period. I know sometimes I'm just not aware
of my
> consumption of a thing until its brought to my attention, so I'll
mention
> it-but without judgment. Occasionally (every 3 months or so?? not
sure), I will
> mention my concern over calcium, and more often, I will put in my 2
cents worth
> about chemical sweeteners-though not while he's enjoying his flavored
water,
> or near that time... usually when he's asking for the second one in a
week.
>
> What's worse is that DH keeps some diet pop in the house for when he's
home
> (even though I express my concerns to him about chemical sweeteners,
too-he
> choses to keep drinking it) in 20 oz bottles and Wyl has started
drinking DH's
> pop. He'll take one DH hasn't finished and finish it, and last week,
he
> opened all 5 of the bottles DH had here and took even amounts out of
them, so they
> all looked equal, but the pop level was below the label. The
"sneaking" is
> my alarm bell-we definitely need to adjust something somewhere.
>
> Oddly enough, sometimes, its not the *consumption* that seems to be
the big
> thing. He'll swish it in his mouth a long time before drinking it. Or
he'll
> put some in his mouth and spit it in cool arcs in the yard or make
wet patterns
> on the porch or sidewalk. Sometimes, he'll shake one up and open it
just to
> watch the fizz go all over. Or just pour it out of the can/bottle to
make
> neat patterns. He must have used half his pop in this way about 3
weeks ago.
> Last week, it was all drunk and drunk one right after the other,
fast. Sometimes
> it makes me think of chain-smoking... He chugs one down, leaves the
can on
> the table and goes for another-sometimes 3-5 in a row like this (not
> sure-again, I try not to notice too much).
>
> I know there's a line there somewhere between trust and protection and
with
> some things I'm good and I know that line, but with internal things
like
> nutrition and healthy bones that you can't *measure* damage or lack
thereof, I
> have a hard time with finding that line. Things that cause bone
breakage,
> sprains, scrapes, bruises, splinters, punctures, cuts, rashes, etc.
I'm very good
> at balancing information given and trusting that if something *does*
happen,
> I can cope, assess, do damage control, and reassure. I have loads of
> information/experience tucked away in my head about that, having had a
large share of
> injuries as a kid (and since) and dealing with them. I'm sure a good
portion
> of this whole thing is we parents needing to relax a bit and deal, but
I
> don't know *how* to do that.
>
> Peace,
> Sang
>
> Wyl 4/99 and Storm 10/04
>
> Oh, an afterthought-we have parades here where they throw candy to the
kids
> along the parade route and tootsie rolls are very cheap and most
parade units
> throw those. Both boys *have* had their fill of tootsie rolls (at
least the
> chocolate ones), and neither will eat them anymore.
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at
http://www.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I hesitated and considered rejecting the post to which I'm responding
below, but decided it was worth responses (and I figure there will be
several).
-=-Please don't misunderstand me here but I really don't understand
what on
earth this has to do with unschooling other than the fact that you feel
unable/guilty to take hold of the situation in fear that taking charge
would somehow harm your son's self esteem or cause him to question
himself which in turn might have some future negative consequence that
he will be unable to work through.-=-
That is one LONG, long sentence to say "I really don't understand."
To add "...what on earth" to it is an insult to the writer and to
unschoolers who do understand.
-=-...other than the fact that you feel unable/guilty to take hold of
the situation in fear that taking charge...-=-
"Taking charge" is not the premise of what will make natural learning
work.
-=-I have read enough other posts to
see that some people believe unschooling to mean we should place no
boundaries or restrictions on our children but I do not agree
completely with that thinking.-=-
You haven't read enough.
There isn't a family here with NO boundaries or restrictions.
There are hundreds of families here with fewer arbitrary and
controlling boundaries and restrictions than they once had.
There are many families here who have more restrictions now than they
will have later.
-=-Children need to know how to make a good decision. I will go as
far as to say they look for that direction and
leadership in parents at times.-=-
Please read MUCH more before you go so far as to say something that
is SO totally obvious. Yes, children need to learn how to make good
decisions, and if they trust their parents and like them, they will
look for direction and leadership from their parents just about ALL
the time. My 21 year old has called me several times since he moved
out to discuss decisions, procedures, and to get advice on all kinds
of things. He has been learning how to make good decisions his whole
life, and without a lot of boundaries and restrictions.
-=-Your child is addicted to sugar, colorings, additives etc.. Can't you
see that? I mean no disrespect but...-=-
NO OFFENSE, but (another phrase that always precedes something
offensive)
-=-Your child is addicted to sugar, colorings, additives etc.. Can't you
see that?-=-
YOU can't see that from where you are. To declare an addiction is
wrong. To look for and hope for addictions is wrong, but parents all
over the place are EAGER to find out what their child is allergic to
or addicted to so the parents can (they hope) magically change the
child's behavior and attitude by withholding or requiring foods.
It's an epidemic, and it's embarrassing.
-=-Something bigger than himself is now in control- the sugar, etc.-=-
If we were in person I would have done a stage shriek, but someone
else would have beat me to it. "Something bigger than himself is now
in control" sounds like what fundamentalist say about Satan and the
devil's control of children through video games, cartoons, rock and/
or roll...
What is bigger than compassion, mindfulness and logic? Not sugar.
Not TV.
-=Your stand will matter to him eventually.
He may be mad now but it is for his greater good.-=-
That's what they say about school, you know.
That's what they say about every single parental abuse from spanking
to grounding to forbidding friends to visit.
-=-Your concern should not be taken under control but rather the
behavior.-=-
You're spending time trying to decide where the control should be
placed, and that missed the whole point of parents being their
children's partners and advocates.
-=when one is
consuming these products the brain & body in turn suffers greatly
rendering cognitive problems as well as a host of other terrible
symptoms of the addiction. I am not exaggerating here. -=-
Yes you are. In some people's world the sky is falling, and they're
responding to that, and glad it's falling, I think, because that
justifies control. I think the president is kinda glad there are
terrorists because it feels good to control people and tell them it's
for their own good.
People have priorities in their lives. Their beliefs and concerns
are ranked. Their desires are ranked.
Families in which their children aren't right up there in the top
three or so will not succeed at unschooling, I don't think. If the
fear of sugar has a greater priority than helping children learn,
then that family is a sugar-activist family, more than an unschooling
family. There are lots of issues and concerns that can come before
children in a family's life. If children are too far down the line,
this list won't be a good place for them to learn about what's
important to them.
All over the world you can find "proof" and "evidence" that the sky
is falling. This list isn't intended to be everything to everybody,
nor everything to anyone. It's intended to discuss unschooling in
light of the experiences of those who have done it long and
successfully.
Sandra
listowner
unschooling mother of Kirby (21), Marty (18), and Holly (15) who are
NOT sugar addicts, who are not addicted to anything, who have not had
their foods counted or measured nor their lives controlled, who have
been making good decisions since they were little kids, based on
principles and not rules
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
below, but decided it was worth responses (and I figure there will be
several).
-=-Please don't misunderstand me here but I really don't understand
what on
earth this has to do with unschooling other than the fact that you feel
unable/guilty to take hold of the situation in fear that taking charge
would somehow harm your son's self esteem or cause him to question
himself which in turn might have some future negative consequence that
he will be unable to work through.-=-
That is one LONG, long sentence to say "I really don't understand."
To add "...what on earth" to it is an insult to the writer and to
unschoolers who do understand.
-=-...other than the fact that you feel unable/guilty to take hold of
the situation in fear that taking charge...-=-
"Taking charge" is not the premise of what will make natural learning
work.
-=-I have read enough other posts to
see that some people believe unschooling to mean we should place no
boundaries or restrictions on our children but I do not agree
completely with that thinking.-=-
You haven't read enough.
There isn't a family here with NO boundaries or restrictions.
There are hundreds of families here with fewer arbitrary and
controlling boundaries and restrictions than they once had.
There are many families here who have more restrictions now than they
will have later.
-=-Children need to know how to make a good decision. I will go as
far as to say they look for that direction and
leadership in parents at times.-=-
Please read MUCH more before you go so far as to say something that
is SO totally obvious. Yes, children need to learn how to make good
decisions, and if they trust their parents and like them, they will
look for direction and leadership from their parents just about ALL
the time. My 21 year old has called me several times since he moved
out to discuss decisions, procedures, and to get advice on all kinds
of things. He has been learning how to make good decisions his whole
life, and without a lot of boundaries and restrictions.
-=-Your child is addicted to sugar, colorings, additives etc.. Can't you
see that? I mean no disrespect but...-=-
NO OFFENSE, but (another phrase that always precedes something
offensive)
-=-Your child is addicted to sugar, colorings, additives etc.. Can't you
see that?-=-
YOU can't see that from where you are. To declare an addiction is
wrong. To look for and hope for addictions is wrong, but parents all
over the place are EAGER to find out what their child is allergic to
or addicted to so the parents can (they hope) magically change the
child's behavior and attitude by withholding or requiring foods.
It's an epidemic, and it's embarrassing.
-=-Something bigger than himself is now in control- the sugar, etc.-=-
If we were in person I would have done a stage shriek, but someone
else would have beat me to it. "Something bigger than himself is now
in control" sounds like what fundamentalist say about Satan and the
devil's control of children through video games, cartoons, rock and/
or roll...
What is bigger than compassion, mindfulness and logic? Not sugar.
Not TV.
-=Your stand will matter to him eventually.
He may be mad now but it is for his greater good.-=-
That's what they say about school, you know.
That's what they say about every single parental abuse from spanking
to grounding to forbidding friends to visit.
-=-Your concern should not be taken under control but rather the
behavior.-=-
You're spending time trying to decide where the control should be
placed, and that missed the whole point of parents being their
children's partners and advocates.
-=when one is
consuming these products the brain & body in turn suffers greatly
rendering cognitive problems as well as a host of other terrible
symptoms of the addiction. I am not exaggerating here. -=-
Yes you are. In some people's world the sky is falling, and they're
responding to that, and glad it's falling, I think, because that
justifies control. I think the president is kinda glad there are
terrorists because it feels good to control people and tell them it's
for their own good.
People have priorities in their lives. Their beliefs and concerns
are ranked. Their desires are ranked.
Families in which their children aren't right up there in the top
three or so will not succeed at unschooling, I don't think. If the
fear of sugar has a greater priority than helping children learn,
then that family is a sugar-activist family, more than an unschooling
family. There are lots of issues and concerns that can come before
children in a family's life. If children are too far down the line,
this list won't be a good place for them to learn about what's
important to them.
All over the world you can find "proof" and "evidence" that the sky
is falling. This list isn't intended to be everything to everybody,
nor everything to anyone. It's intended to discuss unschooling in
light of the experiences of those who have done it long and
successfully.
Sandra
listowner
unschooling mother of Kirby (21), Marty (18), and Holly (15) who are
NOT sugar addicts, who are not addicted to anything, who have not had
their foods counted or measured nor their lives controlled, who have
been making good decisions since they were little kids, based on
principles and not rules
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gold Standard
>>I need some help getting my (and DH's) concerns under control.<<First of all, it is good that you are asking for help for your own concerns.
That is the place to start. I'm glad you aren't asking (at least up front)
how to change your son's behavior. That needs to come from him, if it is
going to happen.
I just wanted to mention that nowhere in your post did I see how you share
information with your son. One part of his decision-making comes from
information he has...not information given with tainted view or desperate
feelings, but straight-forward information. Ask him how he feels after he's
consumed a large amount of sugar. Maybe he feels great. Maybe he really is
physically suffering but isn't paying attention to it, and a simple question
about it will connect him. You can share information of studies and such but
with the highlight that studies are often conducted or financed by the
organization who will benefit most from the findings. Maybe you have sources
you trust and can share that as well.
He is on a journey and it can be a lot different from what you think it
should be. Your role in this is to share information, support, engage in
joyful activities and be joyful. This issue does seem to be a focus for you,
based on the amount you wrote about it, and that is surely loud and clear to
your son. Find some great and surprising stuff to do...take your (and his)
attention to great places.
Jacki
greenqueen72
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
expressing my viewpoint- as everyone else does here. I did not mean to
be insulting just forthright.
null a learning environment- I am talking about protection.
irresponsible behavior, who fears using there own knowledge to make a
situation better for everyone involved? Assuming the child has any
knowledge of the importance of nutrition. I don't mean, again, to be
disrespectful.
additives, toxins etc.. and I can very honestly say regarding this
situation and from the original post that it appears to me he is
addicted. People do not crave unhealthy foods naturally. There is proof
that these substances are addictive and very unhealthy and the food
manufactures know this. I am not HOPING there is a problem- just like
you Sandra I state it the way I see it. Changing what we put into our
bodies will change our behavior- absolutely! The opposite hold true- why
do people choose to put there children on mind altering medications? To
control the child- healthy food, free of junk will pull out peoples
potential- free them.
8-9 years old.
advice. I agree with you there about Bush! That's for another list.
kids.
Thanks for the podium~
Rachel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Well thank you. I appreciate the freedom.
> I hesitated and considered rejecting the post
> To add "...what on earth" to it is an insult to the writer and toYou can be rather blunt yourself, I feel this is serious and am
> unschoolers who do understand.
expressing my viewpoint- as everyone else does here. I did not mean to
be insulting just forthright.
> "Taking charge" is not the premise of what will make natural learningI am not talking about removing basic human rights here or rendering
> work.
null a learning environment- I am talking about protection.
> You haven't read enough. Really?Kuddos- I am learning also!
> There isn't a family here with NO boundaries or restrictions.
> There are hundreds of families here with fewer arbitrary and
> controlling boundaries and restrictions than they once had.
> There are many families here who have more restrictions now than they
> will have later.
> Please read MUCH more before you go so far as to say something thatAll I as saying is that how can a child respect a parent who allows such
> is SO totally obvious. Yes, children need to learn how to make good
> decisions, and if they trust their parents and like them, they will
> look for direction and leadership from their parents just about ALL
> the time. My 21 year old has called me several times since he moved
> out to discuss decisions, procedures, and to get advice on all kinds
> of things. He has been learning how to make good decisions his whole
> life, and without a lot of boundaries and restrictions.
irresponsible behavior, who fears using there own knowledge to make a
situation better for everyone involved? Assuming the child has any
knowledge of the importance of nutrition. I don't mean, again, to be
disrespectful.
> YOU can't see that from where you are. To declare an addiction isYes, I can. I have some knowledge about food, nutrition, food colorings,
> wrong. To look for and hope for addictions is wrong, but parents all
> over the place are EAGER to find out what their child is allergic to
> or addicted to so the parents can (they hope) magically change the
> child's behavior and attitude by withholding or requiring foods.
> It's an epidemic, and it's embarrassing.
additives, toxins etc.. and I can very honestly say regarding this
situation and from the original post that it appears to me he is
addicted. People do not crave unhealthy foods naturally. There is proof
that these substances are addictive and very unhealthy and the food
manufactures know this. I am not HOPING there is a problem- just like
you Sandra I state it the way I see it. Changing what we put into our
bodies will change our behavior- absolutely! The opposite hold true- why
do people choose to put there children on mind altering medications? To
control the child- healthy food, free of junk will pull out peoples
potential- free them.
> That's what they say about school, you know.Is it abusive to protect our children from harmful things? He is only
> That's what they say about every single parental abuse from spanking
> to grounding to forbidding friends to visit.
8-9 years old.
> In some people's world the sky is falling, and they'reThe sky is falling- for her- she is seeking help-I am offering my own
> responding to that, and glad it's falling, I think, because that
> justifies control. I think the president is kinda glad there are
> terrorists because it feels good to control people and tell them it's
> for their own good.
advice. I agree with you there about Bush! That's for another list.
> People have priorities in their lives. Their beliefs and concernsThis is obviously a priority in her life.
> are ranked. Their desires are ranked.
> Families in which their children aren't right up there in the topIt's all important to me. What top 3? Providing a healthy home is for my
> three or so will not succeed at unschooling, I don't think. If the
> fear of sugar has a greater priority than helping children learn,
> then that family is a sugar-activist family, more than an unschooling
> family. There are lots of issues and concerns that can come before
> children in a family's life. If children are too far down the line,
> this list won't be a good place for them to learn about what's
> important to them.
kids.
Thanks for the podium~
Rachel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-> I hesitated and considered rejecting the post
-=-Well thank you. I appreciate the freedom.-=-
It was more license than freedom. You have TONS of freedom, but not
in my house, and this list is pretty much an extension of my house.
If you make your own yahoo list, you can (and would have to) decide
the topic and who could join and post, and when what they posted was
sufficiently off topic or irritating to need to be prevented.
-=-You can be rather blunt yourself, I feel this is serious and am
expressing my viewpoint- as everyone else does here.-=-
I can be blunt in my own home, certainly. And I'm blunt in defense
of unschooling.
I just told some technicians who are here that it was fine with me if
they drilled a hole from one room to another. I can tell them that.
They can do that because it's my house and I agreed to it. If
anyone else here drills holes in my house or gives anyone else the go-
ahead to drill holes in my house, I'll either throw you out or call
the police. Maybe both.
-=-> "Taking charge" is not the premise of what will make natural
learning
null a learning environment- I am talking about protection.-=-
If the learning environment involves a child learning about his own
needs and desires and the effects of different foods, then
"protection" renders null that learning environment. The controls
that were on the child when he was younger created the desire, quite
likely. Countless adults, when discussing their eating habits talk
about desires they had as children that were unfulfilled, and
shamings they received. My own parents drank and smoked and wouldn't
let my cousin have seconds on milk. When we had grapes my mother
counted them out. If there were donuts, and six of us, each person
got two. The taking of a third donut was like a huge family
felony. I don't want to even start on my husband's mothers creepy
food "protections" and rules. He binges to this day, and he's 51
years old, and it is totally due to her shaming, which still continues.
There are many unschooling families and other families not
unschooling who have, from exposure through La Leche League or
overeaters' recovery groups, who have shown with their own children
that gentle freedom is a world apart from measuring and shaming and
blaming behaviors on foods.
I'm in my 50's too, and have lived through many fads and assurances
of what's better than other things, and what will surely kill. If
there were no alcoholics or smokers my age or older, I might start to
seriously consider the dire "it will kill you" warnings.
I've gone through "margarine is better for you than butter" and "I
can't believe we were eating margarine." Hamburgers have gone
through every permutation of which part is healthy and which will
kill you. Every part except the pickles and the tomato have been
reviled and then praised. I've seen people ask for just the meat and
cheese and I've seen people ask for all BUT the meat and cheese, in
the name of "protection."
The most valuable thing about margarine, hamburgers, alcohol and
tobacco might be the lessons to be learned from listening to the
propaganda, and then learning to look with our own eyes at what
actually *is* in the absence of frightful warnings and unproven
claims and chic fads.
-=-All I as saying is that how can a child respect a parent who
allows such
irresponsible behavior, who fears using there own knowledge to make a
situation better for everyone involved?-=-
I know dozens of unschooled teens and young adults who respect their
parents greatly, AND whose parents never did fear using their own
knowledge to make a situation better.
You seem to want someone to use what you read somewhere else to make
a situation more like your own.
This list is for sharing personal experiences with natural learning,
not for sharing scary websites. Seriously.
-=- People do not crave unhealthy foods naturally.-=-
They don't crave foods unnaturally, do they?
People crave freedom and choice. When that's removed, there is a
reaction.
-=-I am not HOPING there is a problem- just like
you Sandra I state it the way I see it.-=-
If you aren't stating things that will help others unschool, then
you're not doing just like I am.
-=-Changing what we put into our
bodies will change our behavior- absolutely! The opposite hold true- why
do people choose to put there children on mind altering medications?
I don't put my children on mind-altering medications; do you?
-=-To control the child- healthy food, free of junk will pull out
peoples
potential- free them.-=--=-
Did the first part of that sentence refer to the mind-altering
medications?
Or did you really mean to say "to control the child free them"?
-=-> People have priorities in their lives. Their beliefs and concerns
are ranked. Their desires are ranked.-=-
-=-This is obviously a priority in her life.-=-
"This" what?
This list is only for the discussion of natural learning and mindful
parenting and unschooling.
If you can work your great fears into that without needing to remind
us so often that you don't mean to be offensive or insulting, then
that's fine.
-=-Thanks for the podium~-=-
The podium is for unschooling topics.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-Well thank you. I appreciate the freedom.-=-
It was more license than freedom. You have TONS of freedom, but not
in my house, and this list is pretty much an extension of my house.
If you make your own yahoo list, you can (and would have to) decide
the topic and who could join and post, and when what they posted was
sufficiently off topic or irritating to need to be prevented.
-=-You can be rather blunt yourself, I feel this is serious and am
expressing my viewpoint- as everyone else does here.-=-
I can be blunt in my own home, certainly. And I'm blunt in defense
of unschooling.
I just told some technicians who are here that it was fine with me if
they drilled a hole from one room to another. I can tell them that.
They can do that because it's my house and I agreed to it. If
anyone else here drills holes in my house or gives anyone else the go-
ahead to drill holes in my house, I'll either throw you out or call
the police. Maybe both.
-=-> "Taking charge" is not the premise of what will make natural
learning
> work.-=-I am not talking about removing basic human rights here or rendering
null a learning environment- I am talking about protection.-=-
If the learning environment involves a child learning about his own
needs and desires and the effects of different foods, then
"protection" renders null that learning environment. The controls
that were on the child when he was younger created the desire, quite
likely. Countless adults, when discussing their eating habits talk
about desires they had as children that were unfulfilled, and
shamings they received. My own parents drank and smoked and wouldn't
let my cousin have seconds on milk. When we had grapes my mother
counted them out. If there were donuts, and six of us, each person
got two. The taking of a third donut was like a huge family
felony. I don't want to even start on my husband's mothers creepy
food "protections" and rules. He binges to this day, and he's 51
years old, and it is totally due to her shaming, which still continues.
There are many unschooling families and other families not
unschooling who have, from exposure through La Leche League or
overeaters' recovery groups, who have shown with their own children
that gentle freedom is a world apart from measuring and shaming and
blaming behaviors on foods.
I'm in my 50's too, and have lived through many fads and assurances
of what's better than other things, and what will surely kill. If
there were no alcoholics or smokers my age or older, I might start to
seriously consider the dire "it will kill you" warnings.
I've gone through "margarine is better for you than butter" and "I
can't believe we were eating margarine." Hamburgers have gone
through every permutation of which part is healthy and which will
kill you. Every part except the pickles and the tomato have been
reviled and then praised. I've seen people ask for just the meat and
cheese and I've seen people ask for all BUT the meat and cheese, in
the name of "protection."
The most valuable thing about margarine, hamburgers, alcohol and
tobacco might be the lessons to be learned from listening to the
propaganda, and then learning to look with our own eyes at what
actually *is* in the absence of frightful warnings and unproven
claims and chic fads.
-=-All I as saying is that how can a child respect a parent who
allows such
irresponsible behavior, who fears using there own knowledge to make a
situation better for everyone involved?-=-
I know dozens of unschooled teens and young adults who respect their
parents greatly, AND whose parents never did fear using their own
knowledge to make a situation better.
You seem to want someone to use what you read somewhere else to make
a situation more like your own.
This list is for sharing personal experiences with natural learning,
not for sharing scary websites. Seriously.
-=- People do not crave unhealthy foods naturally.-=-
They don't crave foods unnaturally, do they?
People crave freedom and choice. When that's removed, there is a
reaction.
-=-I am not HOPING there is a problem- just like
you Sandra I state it the way I see it.-=-
If you aren't stating things that will help others unschool, then
you're not doing just like I am.
-=-Changing what we put into our
bodies will change our behavior- absolutely! The opposite hold true- why
do people choose to put there children on mind altering medications?
I don't put my children on mind-altering medications; do you?
-=-To control the child- healthy food, free of junk will pull out
peoples
potential- free them.-=--=-
Did the first part of that sentence refer to the mind-altering
medications?
Or did you really mean to say "to control the child free them"?
-=-> People have priorities in their lives. Their beliefs and concerns
are ranked. Their desires are ranked.-=-
-=-This is obviously a priority in her life.-=-
"This" what?
This list is only for the discussion of natural learning and mindful
parenting and unschooling.
If you can work your great fears into that without needing to remind
us so often that you don't mean to be offensive or insulting, then
that's fine.
-=-Thanks for the podium~-=-
The podium is for unschooling topics.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/27/2007 11:53:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
boulier72@... writes:
I can very honestly say regarding this
situation and from the original post that it appears to me he is
addicted. People do not crave unhealthy foods naturally.
Nowhere did I say he "craved" these things. He turns pop down for other
drink choices occasionally. He doesn't even consume all the pop he gets-he spits
some out, pours some out, freezes some into pleasing shapes, then lets them
melt. Before I posted, I had an inkling far hidden that it was likely the input
from his parents that was helping this "intense interest" in pop along, but
it is more clear now that I have, and since I've gotten responses. My child
is not addicted to anything.
<The sky is falling- for her- she is seeking help->
No, I think its more of a case of having bought into "the sky is falling"
that is probably at the crux of my fears. I guess I'll have to keep searching
for unbiased information on phosphorous and calcium loss. I'm seeking help to
get over the input from Chicken Little.
Sang
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
boulier72@... writes:
I can very honestly say regarding this
situation and from the original post that it appears to me he is
addicted. People do not crave unhealthy foods naturally.
Nowhere did I say he "craved" these things. He turns pop down for other
drink choices occasionally. He doesn't even consume all the pop he gets-he spits
some out, pours some out, freezes some into pleasing shapes, then lets them
melt. Before I posted, I had an inkling far hidden that it was likely the input
from his parents that was helping this "intense interest" in pop along, but
it is more clear now that I have, and since I've gotten responses. My child
is not addicted to anything.
<The sky is falling- for her- she is seeking help->
No, I think its more of a case of having bought into "the sky is falling"
that is probably at the crux of my fears. I guess I'll have to keep searching
for unbiased information on phosphorous and calcium loss. I'm seeking help to
get over the input from Chicken Little.
Sang
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
On 9/27/07, Sanguinegirl83@... <Sanguinegirl83@...> wrote:
The very best place to begin is my own thoughts that stand in my way --
somehow it's never about the kid, is it? ::bg::
First I'd recommend losing (internal *&* external) judgment over what's
nutritious and what isn't. Even candy nourishes. For me, there is something
soulful in the eating of my favorite sweet. I've worked hard to quiet the
voice telling *me* I'm creating another dimple on my ass and to focus on the
voice that's saying "thanks, that's just what I needed, right here, right
now" Personally, I really don't like sundrops over M&Ms, so sometimes the
*organic* or *healthier* options just don't taste good. Organic Coca-Cola
that actually tastes good??? 'twould be my dream come true!!! (as a second,
better option I sometimes treat myself to an imported from Mexico coke, as
it's still made with cane sugar :::vbg:::)
Is there a fear in him that you're going to begin restricting his candy?? Is
he feeling your disapproval and thereby binging before it's taken away?? Can
you bring more chocolate, maybe more chocolate with nuts, so you're able to
see some nutritive benefits while he enjoys? How about *making* candy
together? Bringing candy in as a worthy member of the tribe might help him
see the permanence of the availability.
Can you shift your perspective to one of 1-year or 5-years and see the
spikes and dips in his sweet consumption? there's a natural ebb and flow...
Hayden does sugar spikes and also does protein spikes, where he'll only eat
meat (no veggies, no fruit, no breads) for a week or longer. I'm cooking
burger after burger and steak after steak and chicken breast after chicken
breast and then --suddenly-- he wants a spinach salad. I've been concerned
about his size, and knowing how incredibly UNHELPFUL it was to have family
make comment on my body as a child (gotta love it when morbidly obese folks
call a gangly 14-year old "Thunder Thighs") I've made sure not to comment to
him. HE has made comment to me about his own comfort with his body
style/shape and what can be done about it. We'll talk lightly about food
choices, mostly focusing on "moving more" not on good vs bad foods.
Sometimes we talk about the "why" of eating and what leads to the obesity we
see so prevalent in my family; after he asks or comments, not in response to
*his* eating.
Add to that the minor annoyance of
money!) keeping cans collected in one spot so we can cash them in (a big
bonus in our move to OR is the machines where we put the can in and get a
nickel each). We also have a little container for our tabs to help the
Ronald McDonald house. I found putting a small garbage can near the candy
eating section helps -- maybe not him, but I don't have so far to go when
I'm picking them up!! Our cousin made long chains from starburst and mamba
wrappers (I think I saw Abbi doing that at L&L??) which is another great
incentive to collect the wrappers and keep them from getting thrown/blown
away.
I'm NOT comfortable with chemical sugar-substitute sweeteners,
"informed consent" not restriction. Hayden knows his dad had a brain tumor.
Hayden knows dad's doctors told him *never* to have nutrasweet. Hayden knows
it freaks me out. Hayden knows he has choice about what happens to his body.
Just last night he bought a big pack of Juicy Fruit (it now has sugar, HFCS
*&* aspartame, oh wait, AND most recently added yellow food coloring!!!)...
I didn't have to say anything except YES with a smile! I didn't have a
reaction, he already knows what he needs to know to make his choices. So
we're pulling out of the parking lot and he says, "I think it's okay for me
to have nutrasweet as I'm just a kid and it's not as dangerous because I'm
still growing and changing" "Well," I said, "I think it's maybe more
dangerous for you, as your brain is still developing, building bridges
between connections and maybe the excitement that nutrasweet causes may
interfere with that, so it should be safer for me... oh wait, maybe not! at
my age, the bridges are collapsing and maybe that excitement might cause the
bridges to crumble more quickly and easily. I don't know, really, I don't
think anyone really does" And that is the truth, we don't know. For me
that's the scary part. For Hayden it's not. He happily chewed his gum, guilt
free. It'd sure be nice if Wrigley's had remained aspartame free, but it
didn't. It's nice my kid can remain food-guilt free.
neuroexciter :) Still has an aftertaste to my sugared tongue, not nearly as
bad as nutrasweet!
run over cans with my car, they've slammed cans on the ground (which is
really cool to see!) they've shaken and squirted to their hearts delight and
at less than 10 cents per can, I have no justifiable complaints! Full cans
of soda on dry ice make really, really cool sounds!!
I'm sure a good portion
Oh, an afterthought-we have parades here where they throw candy to the kids
ordinance!)... they must figger the kids 'round here aren't smart enough to
distinguish between running in the street at a parade for candy vs running
into traffic.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I just gotta point out how enlightened this ^ above sentence is!!
>
> I need some help getting my (and DH's) concerns under control.
>
The very best place to begin is my own thoughts that stand in my way --
somehow it's never about the kid, is it? ::bg::
First I'd recommend losing (internal *&* external) judgment over what's
nutritious and what isn't. Even candy nourishes. For me, there is something
soulful in the eating of my favorite sweet. I've worked hard to quiet the
voice telling *me* I'm creating another dimple on my ass and to focus on the
voice that's saying "thanks, that's just what I needed, right here, right
now" Personally, I really don't like sundrops over M&Ms, so sometimes the
*organic* or *healthier* options just don't taste good. Organic Coca-Cola
that actually tastes good??? 'twould be my dream come true!!! (as a second,
better option I sometimes treat myself to an imported from Mexico coke, as
it's still made with cane sugar :::vbg:::)
Is there a fear in him that you're going to begin restricting his candy?? Is
he feeling your disapproval and thereby binging before it's taken away?? Can
you bring more chocolate, maybe more chocolate with nuts, so you're able to
see some nutritive benefits while he enjoys? How about *making* candy
together? Bringing candy in as a worthy member of the tribe might help him
see the permanence of the availability.
Can you shift your perspective to one of 1-year or 5-years and see the
spikes and dips in his sweet consumption? there's a natural ebb and flow...
Hayden does sugar spikes and also does protein spikes, where he'll only eat
meat (no veggies, no fruit, no breads) for a week or longer. I'm cooking
burger after burger and steak after steak and chicken breast after chicken
breast and then --suddenly-- he wants a spinach salad. I've been concerned
about his size, and knowing how incredibly UNHELPFUL it was to have family
make comment on my body as a child (gotta love it when morbidly obese folks
call a gangly 14-year old "Thunder Thighs") I've made sure not to comment to
him. HE has made comment to me about his own comfort with his body
style/shape and what can be done about it. We'll talk lightly about food
choices, mostly focusing on "moving more" not on good vs bad foods.
Sometimes we talk about the "why" of eating and what leads to the obesity we
see so prevalent in my family; after he asks or comments, not in response to
*his* eating.
Add to that the minor annoyance of
> pop cans that he likes to bend and twist apart and leave lying on theDoes he know cans=cash? This helped with Hayden (who loves all things
> floor
> all sharp and pointy, pop tabs torn off & bottle caps and left everywhere,
> and
> whole cans and bottles tossed on the floor, behind the couch, on the
> furniture, in the yard-wherever it lands.
>
money!) keeping cans collected in one spot so we can cash them in (a big
bonus in our move to OR is the machines where we put the can in and get a
nickel each). We also have a little container for our tabs to help the
Ronald McDonald house. I found putting a small garbage can near the candy
eating section helps -- maybe not him, but I don't have so far to go when
I'm picking them up!! Our cousin made long chains from starburst and mamba
wrappers (I think I saw Abbi doing that at L&L??) which is another great
incentive to collect the wrappers and keep them from getting thrown/blown
away.
I'm NOT comfortable with chemical sugar-substitute sweeteners,
>I confess this is a *BIG* one with me!! We do read labels, definitely as an
"informed consent" not restriction. Hayden knows his dad had a brain tumor.
Hayden knows dad's doctors told him *never* to have nutrasweet. Hayden knows
it freaks me out. Hayden knows he has choice about what happens to his body.
Just last night he bought a big pack of Juicy Fruit (it now has sugar, HFCS
*&* aspartame, oh wait, AND most recently added yellow food coloring!!!)...
I didn't have to say anything except YES with a smile! I didn't have a
reaction, he already knows what he needs to know to make his choices. So
we're pulling out of the parking lot and he says, "I think it's okay for me
to have nutrasweet as I'm just a kid and it's not as dangerous because I'm
still growing and changing" "Well," I said, "I think it's maybe more
dangerous for you, as your brain is still developing, building bridges
between connections and maybe the excitement that nutrasweet causes may
interfere with that, so it should be safer for me... oh wait, maybe not! at
my age, the bridges are collapsing and maybe that excitement might cause the
bridges to crumble more quickly and easily. I don't know, really, I don't
think anyone really does" And that is the truth, we don't know. For me
that's the scary part. For Hayden it's not. He happily chewed his gum, guilt
free. It'd sure be nice if Wrigley's had remained aspartame free, but it
didn't. It's nice my kid can remain food-guilt free.
> but he's found a flavored water that has aspartame in it,There is flavored water with Splenda. Artificial yeah, but not a
>
neuroexciter :) Still has an aftertaste to my sugared tongue, not nearly as
bad as nutrasweet!
> Oddly enough, sometimes, its not the *consumption* that seems to be theI've purchased flats of storebrand soda specifically for this purpose!! I've
> big
> thing. He'll swish it in his mouth a long time before drinking it. Or
> he'll
> put some in his mouth and spit it in cool arcs in the yard or make wet
> patterns
> on the porch or sidewalk. Sometimes, he'll shake one up and open it just
> to
> watch the fizz go all over. Or just pour it out of the can/bottle to make
> neat patterns. He must have used half his pop in this way about 3 weeks
> ago.
>
run over cans with my car, they've slammed cans on the ground (which is
really cool to see!) they've shaken and squirted to their hearts delight and
at less than 10 cents per can, I have no justifiable complaints! Full cans
of soda on dry ice make really, really cool sounds!!
I'm sure a good portion
> of this whole thing is we parents needing to relax a bit and deal, but ISure ya do!! Breathe, baby, breathe!! Smile and love and don't dwell.
> don't know *how* to do that.
>
Oh, an afterthought-we have parades here where they throw candy to the kids
> along the parade route and tootsie rolls are very cheap and most paradeYou're so lucky!! We can't have candy thrown at our local parades (city
> units
> throw those. Both boys *have* had their fill of tootsie rolls (at least
> the
> chocolate ones), and neither will eat them anymore.
> .__,_.
>
ordinance!)... they must figger the kids 'round here aren't smart enough to
distinguish between running in the street at a parade for candy vs running
into traffic.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenstarc4
I was going to cut and paste and respond, but it just seemed
overwhelming to do so.
Instead I am going to just give some ideas of which direction I would
go, if this was my situation.
As for breakfast, I would make a great effort to have food out and
ready in the kitchen for him when he gets up. Candy is still an
option, but other things will be there just as accessible. One of my
kids will often eat candy first thing in the morning, then an hour or
two later is ready for food of another sort.
I have another kid who loves pop very much. I buy as much as I can
afford. She is pretty much the only one who drinks it in the house. I
don't often, my dh sometimes, and the other kid will rarely drink a
full one and generally wants other things instead.
It seems in your description that it isn't necessarily about drinking
it, but about exploring it. There are so many cool things that you can
do with pop, like putting calcium vitamins in a glass of it, or putting
a newly lost tooth, or money, or whatever and see what happens.
The history of pop is kinda cool too. It really was addicting to begin
with, but it's not now and that's cool too. Go check out some local
pop breweries if you have some around. We do here in OR, so that would
be feasible if you live in the right place.
Do propulsion expiriments with the carbonation, balloons or rockets or
whatever. Use the pop containers for cool things. Make bowling pins
out of them or those whirl pool things where you connect two together.
Just explore pop together. Make side by side blind taste tests with
varying brands. Forget about the HFCS for a while and just play around
with all kinds of pop.
Sandra said something in another post about allergies becoming a new
fad epidemic. I would say that seems to be true based on my own
experiences. I have always been allergic to dairy, it makes me really
sick, always has, there's a genetic component to that. When I was a
kid, my sister and I were the only people I knew that were allergic to
dairy, or anything for that matter, except the occasional kid who was
allergic to bees or peanuts. It seems that nowdays, tons of kids have
allergies to all kinds of things.
I have one child who got the dairy allergy passed down. It makes her
sick, she knows it and avoids it on her own terms. I don't tell her
that she can't eat it, I just inform her what has dairy in it and how
much. She makes her own decisions and it's not all or none, and we
help her when she decides to eat it and feels yucky. She's 6. She
will more often than not, avoid the offending item altogether.
As for the candy, pop and other even, go to odd stores, foreign stores
where you can't read the ingredients and buy unusual stuff. Mix it up,
make it an interesting exploration. Go to Asian markets, or German
stores or whatever you have near you and buy whatever looks
interesting. Make it fun, not about gorging, but more about
exploration of food that is tasty!
overwhelming to do so.
Instead I am going to just give some ideas of which direction I would
go, if this was my situation.
As for breakfast, I would make a great effort to have food out and
ready in the kitchen for him when he gets up. Candy is still an
option, but other things will be there just as accessible. One of my
kids will often eat candy first thing in the morning, then an hour or
two later is ready for food of another sort.
I have another kid who loves pop very much. I buy as much as I can
afford. She is pretty much the only one who drinks it in the house. I
don't often, my dh sometimes, and the other kid will rarely drink a
full one and generally wants other things instead.
It seems in your description that it isn't necessarily about drinking
it, but about exploring it. There are so many cool things that you can
do with pop, like putting calcium vitamins in a glass of it, or putting
a newly lost tooth, or money, or whatever and see what happens.
The history of pop is kinda cool too. It really was addicting to begin
with, but it's not now and that's cool too. Go check out some local
pop breweries if you have some around. We do here in OR, so that would
be feasible if you live in the right place.
Do propulsion expiriments with the carbonation, balloons or rockets or
whatever. Use the pop containers for cool things. Make bowling pins
out of them or those whirl pool things where you connect two together.
Just explore pop together. Make side by side blind taste tests with
varying brands. Forget about the HFCS for a while and just play around
with all kinds of pop.
Sandra said something in another post about allergies becoming a new
fad epidemic. I would say that seems to be true based on my own
experiences. I have always been allergic to dairy, it makes me really
sick, always has, there's a genetic component to that. When I was a
kid, my sister and I were the only people I knew that were allergic to
dairy, or anything for that matter, except the occasional kid who was
allergic to bees or peanuts. It seems that nowdays, tons of kids have
allergies to all kinds of things.
I have one child who got the dairy allergy passed down. It makes her
sick, she knows it and avoids it on her own terms. I don't tell her
that she can't eat it, I just inform her what has dairy in it and how
much. She makes her own decisions and it's not all or none, and we
help her when she decides to eat it and feels yucky. She's 6. She
will more often than not, avoid the offending item altogether.
As for the candy, pop and other even, go to odd stores, foreign stores
where you can't read the ingredients and buy unusual stuff. Mix it up,
make it an interesting exploration. Go to Asian markets, or German
stores or whatever you have near you and buy whatever looks
interesting. Make it fun, not about gorging, but more about
exploration of food that is tasty!
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have one child who got the dairy allergy passed down. It makes her
sick, she knows it and avoids it on her own terms. I don't tell her
that she can't eat it, I just inform her what has dairy in it and how
much.-=-
And I'm guessing you didn't make her drink it, either.
There's the real abuse--adults trying to force kids to eat or drink
things that don't taste good or healthy to them. That goes a long
way to destroy someone's instinctive ability to choose foods he needs
or that will not give him a bad reaction. If a little kid can spit
something out without penalty, he can start early to learn what seems
right and sound.
Parents too often say "You don't know anything. I'll tell you what
you'll know."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sick, she knows it and avoids it on her own terms. I don't tell her
that she can't eat it, I just inform her what has dairy in it and how
much.-=-
And I'm guessing you didn't make her drink it, either.
There's the real abuse--adults trying to force kids to eat or drink
things that don't taste good or healthy to them. That goes a long
way to destroy someone's instinctive ability to choose foods he needs
or that will not give him a bad reaction. If a little kid can spit
something out without penalty, he can start early to learn what seems
right and sound.
Parents too often say "You don't know anything. I'll tell you what
you'll know."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenstarc4
> And I'm guessing you didn't make her drink it, either.drink
> There's the real abuse--adults trying to force kids to eat or
> things that don't taste good or healthy to them. That goes a longneeds
> way to destroy someone's instinctive ability to choose foods he
> or that will not give him a bad reaction. If a little kid canspit
> something out without penalty, he can start early to learn whatseems
> right and sound.what
>
> Parents too often say "You don't know anything. I'll tell you
> you'll know."This is exactly what happened to my dad his whole life, even in
>
> Sandra
>
school. He had to choose each day wether or not he wanted to skip
recess that was contingent on drinking the whole glass of milk, or
drink it and throw it up in the playground!
His parents were stupid and didn't believe him that dairy made him
sick. He routinely passed on ice cream and even that didn't clue
them in!
It's about choices, and the freedom to do with one's body as one
chooses. I can't even imagine how it would be different for my
daughter if I hadn't given her the choice... Oh wait I can imagine,
and that's why she has a choice! I want her to know the cause and
effect of something so personal as her body's reactions to her
environment, food included.
Nancy Wooton
On Sep 27, 2007, at 1:09 PM, jenstarc4 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zh1jYN2JPs
(It's the Mentos-Diet coke fountain)
Nancy
> Do propulsion expiriments with the carbonation, balloons or rockets orOr watch other people do them on YouTube
> whatever. Use the pop containers for cool things. Make bowling pins
> out of them or those whirl pool things where you connect two together.
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zh1jYN2JPs
(It's the Mentos-Diet coke fountain)
Nancy
Sandra Dodd
-=-This is exactly what happened to my dad his whole life, even in
school. He had to choose each day wether or not he wanted to skip
recess that was contingent on drinking the whole glass of milk, or
drink it and throw it up in the playground!
His parents were stupid and didn't believe him that dairy made him
sick. He routinely passed on ice cream and even that didn't clue
them in!-=-
Maybe not "stupid"--they were doing what they had been told and had
read was right and healthy and good and right. They were trying to
protect him and help him grow up healthy.
I was told I was allergic to chocolate when I was little, and not to
wear nylon underwear. So I pined for nylon underwear, and when I
was older got a bunch of it. I didn't like it, it wasn't good for
me. So I quit wearing it. Maybe I could've figured that out on my
own with cheap little-kid panties. <g> But no, I was made to wear
cotton without choosing to, and kept thinking it and feeling deprived.
And the chocolate, that was just nonsense, villifying something they
didn't want kids to have anyway. The doctor said "She's allergic to
chocolate" and collected his $50 or whatever it was in the '50's, and
that was that for me, for years. Other kids had chocolate cookies in
front of me while I had some crummy substitute, until nobody was
looking and then I sneaked it, felt guilty, "knew" I was BAD.
It didn't help my health, physical or mental. It didn't help my self
image. It didn't help the relationship between my parents and me.
We have a drawer in our bedroom with a bunch of dark chocolate. My
husband puts it there. It stays a long, long time. Good for us.
Chocolate is not all that, but for me it was the forbidden, heavenly,
all-important glory that hated me (said a doctor) and I had to live
in its shadow, smelling its wondrous scent and knowing I was an
inferior, imperfect person.
That's too much power to give chocolate, and doctors, and parents.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
school. He had to choose each day wether or not he wanted to skip
recess that was contingent on drinking the whole glass of milk, or
drink it and throw it up in the playground!
His parents were stupid and didn't believe him that dairy made him
sick. He routinely passed on ice cream and even that didn't clue
them in!-=-
Maybe not "stupid"--they were doing what they had been told and had
read was right and healthy and good and right. They were trying to
protect him and help him grow up healthy.
I was told I was allergic to chocolate when I was little, and not to
wear nylon underwear. So I pined for nylon underwear, and when I
was older got a bunch of it. I didn't like it, it wasn't good for
me. So I quit wearing it. Maybe I could've figured that out on my
own with cheap little-kid panties. <g> But no, I was made to wear
cotton without choosing to, and kept thinking it and feeling deprived.
And the chocolate, that was just nonsense, villifying something they
didn't want kids to have anyway. The doctor said "She's allergic to
chocolate" and collected his $50 or whatever it was in the '50's, and
that was that for me, for years. Other kids had chocolate cookies in
front of me while I had some crummy substitute, until nobody was
looking and then I sneaked it, felt guilty, "knew" I was BAD.
It didn't help my health, physical or mental. It didn't help my self
image. It didn't help the relationship between my parents and me.
We have a drawer in our bedroom with a bunch of dark chocolate. My
husband puts it there. It stays a long, long time. Good for us.
Chocolate is not all that, but for me it was the forbidden, heavenly,
all-important glory that hated me (said a doctor) and I had to live
in its shadow, smelling its wondrous scent and knowing I was an
inferior, imperfect person.
That's too much power to give chocolate, and doctors, and parents.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On Sep 27, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
yahoo lists is the comedienne singing "momisms" to the tune of the
William Tell Overture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oc1j5NakY
(Hilarious, IMO ;-)
Nancy
> Parents too often say "You don't know anything. I'll tell you whatAnother gem currently popular on YouTube, and making the rounds on
> you'll know."
>
yahoo lists is the comedienne singing "momisms" to the tune of the
William Tell Overture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oc1j5NakY
(Hilarious, IMO ;-)
Nancy
diana jenner
On 9/27/07, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
healthier :)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>You coulda ended up like Willy Wonka from Tim Burton's movie!! You're much
> And the chocolate, that was just nonsense, villifying something they
> didn't want kids to have anyway. The doctor said "She's allergic to
> chocolate" and collected his $50 or whatever it was in the '50's, and
> that was that for me, for years. Other kids had chocolate cookies in
> front of me while I had some crummy substitute, until nobody was
> looking and then I sneaked it, felt guilty, "knew" I was BAD.
>
>
healthier :)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally Brown
> This is exactly what happened to my dad his whole life, even inI was lucky - they didn't keep me in for not drinking it, they knew I
> school. He had to choose each day wether or not he wanted to skip
> recess that was contingent on drinking the whole glass of milk, or
> drink it and throw it up in the playground!
>
couldn't handle it. I just used to sneak milk when they weren't looking
- I USED it - the number of torturous sports events, tests etc that I
got out of by the simple method of drinking milk at break time and then
throwing up shortly afterwards......
Cally
Bob Collier
Wow, that's really taking the experiment to extremes! My son Pat and
I first learned about the coke-mentos thing from Mythbusters and
tried it out in our back garden. Even with a cheap brand of cola we
got a fountain at least ten feet high. Amazing.
--- In [email protected], Nancy Wooton <nancywooton@...>
wrote:
I first learned about the coke-mentos thing from Mythbusters and
tried it out in our back garden. Even with a cheap brand of cola we
got a fountain at least ten feet high. Amazing.
--- In [email protected], Nancy Wooton <nancywooton@...>
wrote:
>rockets or
>
> On Sep 27, 2007, at 1:09 PM, jenstarc4 wrote:
>
> > Do propulsion expiriments with the carbonation, balloons or
> > whatever. Use the pop containers for cool things. Make bowlingpins
> > out of them or those whirl pool things where you connect twotogether.
> >
>
> Or watch other people do them on YouTube
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zh1jYN2JPs
>
> (It's the Mentos-Diet coke fountain)
>
> Nancy
>
Gold Standard
On Sep 27, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
like it actually. If it's being looked at by people with a better
understanding of respectful parenting than the woman is singing about, maybe
it is funny. But it's a pretty accurate portrayal of commonly accepted
disrespectful parenting behavior. And I think the audience is laughing more
because they "know what she means" and probably see themselves in her
portrayal, than because the behavior is off. It seems to put the behavior in
a funny light rather than a useful light.
Jacki
> Parents too often say "You don't know anything. I'll tell you whatThis link made it to our local unschooling list and a couple of us didn't
> you'll know."
>
>>Another gem currently popular on YouTube, and making the rounds on
>>yahoo lists is the comedienne singing "momisms" to the tune of the
>>William Tell Overture:
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oc1j5NakY
>>(Hilarious, IMO ;-)<<
like it actually. If it's being looked at by people with a better
understanding of respectful parenting than the woman is singing about, maybe
it is funny. But it's a pretty accurate portrayal of commonly accepted
disrespectful parenting behavior. And I think the audience is laughing more
because they "know what she means" and probably see themselves in her
portrayal, than because the behavior is off. It seems to put the behavior in
a funny light rather than a useful light.
Jacki
tania.mcclive
Hi.
I've been lurking here for a while and have now felt moved enough to
respond to a post. I feel that there is an important issue here that
hasn't been brought up yet, and that is of your son's health. Here in
Australia the childhood obesity rate is soaring, and children as young
as 10 years old are developing type 2 diabetes. It all comes down to
poor diet and lack of education. Some people here think nothing of
sending their kids off to school/pre-school with lunch boxes filled
with sweet sugary foods and even bags of McDonalds!
I know this forum is all about freedom of choice in life, but when it
comes to the health of our children I think that some boundaries need
to be drawn, at least until the child can make an informed decision on
their own. We brought our children into the world and it is our
responsibility to look after them, to make sure that they are on the
right path to a healthy future.
If I have offended anyone, or inadvertantly critized anyone then I am
sorry, I really haven't meant to.
I love the unschooling philosophy. DH and I just don't agree with too
much junk food for anyone. I have had gestational diabetes twice so I
know the effects and dangers of this disease.
cheers,
Tania
I've been lurking here for a while and have now felt moved enough to
respond to a post. I feel that there is an important issue here that
hasn't been brought up yet, and that is of your son's health. Here in
Australia the childhood obesity rate is soaring, and children as young
as 10 years old are developing type 2 diabetes. It all comes down to
poor diet and lack of education. Some people here think nothing of
sending their kids off to school/pre-school with lunch boxes filled
with sweet sugary foods and even bags of McDonalds!
I know this forum is all about freedom of choice in life, but when it
comes to the health of our children I think that some boundaries need
to be drawn, at least until the child can make an informed decision on
their own. We brought our children into the world and it is our
responsibility to look after them, to make sure that they are on the
right path to a healthy future.
If I have offended anyone, or inadvertantly critized anyone then I am
sorry, I really haven't meant to.
I love the unschooling philosophy. DH and I just don't agree with too
much junk food for anyone. I have had gestational diabetes twice so I
know the effects and dangers of this disease.
cheers,
Tania
--- In [email protected], Sanguinegirl83@... wrote:
>
>
> I need some help getting my (and DH's) concerns under control.
>
> Before we found whole-life unschooling, Wyl was restricted with
regard to
> sugar when he was young (though he didn't really seem to care or ask
for much),
> and very restricted in/to "non-organic" foods up until he was about
4, then
> it was "controlled". About the time that I had so much trouble with my
> pregnancy with Storm (Wyl was about 5) and after he was born,
attempts at
> regulation/control were gone out the window (5 1/2 years old).
>
> When we first started unschooling throughout our lives (instead of
just
> academically), I would buy candy, kind of based on a serving size
(from the
> package nutrition list) and doubling it, so he had 2 servings of
candy per day *at
> least*-if it went over, that was fine, but it had to be a minimum of
2 daily
> servings until we went shopping again. We did this with snack foods
(chips,
> pretzels, etc.), candy, cookies and whatever other "not really
nutritious"
> foods he picked out at the store. Many of them were organic, and we
(parents)
> were cool with whatever he chose. He has a shelf (well, now its
more than just
> "a shelf") that it was all on, accessible whenever he wanted, no
asking
> required-BUT, if he ran out before grocery day, there was no more
until we went
> shopping. He ate everything in the first hours we got home, at
first. Then, as
> the weeks passed, it slowed down to where it was lasting until
shopping day,
> and sometimes even beyond, so I thought we had found our balance,
there. Then
> pop came into it (soda, soda pop, cola, carbonated drinks,
fizzies-whatever
> you call it where you are). It was limited to one a week. Then, I
saw how it
> started figuring largely in his life, and so we expanded that to a
4 pack per
> shopping trip. Sometime within this period, we discovered his
allergy to
> HFCS, and so we have to make sure to buy things without it-sugar
based soda
> seems to be in the "all natural" realm and is very expensive, and
expense had
> figured largely into things in certain periods of our lives.
>
> At least a year ago, we removed all non-money restrictions on candy
(I'm
> thinking its more like 2 years, but I'm not positive). I'm not sure
when the
> upswing in candy consumption began, but I'm thinking 6-9 months.
Candy does not
> last a week in our house, no matter how much we buy. There's been
weeks when
> we could afford it, that I've bought 2 of the biggest packages of
candy he
> could find (his choice) at the warehouse club-we're talking about
$25 just in
> candy, so they were very large-I didn't even check the servings.
Sometimes
> we'd add a small item or two that he requested while shopping at
another store
> as well. Still, gone within a week. It concerns me because he truly
fills up
> on it and isn't hungry for nutritious food. Some days I can manage
to get
> breakfast to him before he's had more than 1 or 2 pieces of candy,
and then he at
> least gets one full meal in, but he seems to "live for candy". I've
tried
> big bags of candy, large portions, individual little packages
(snack size, fun
> size-like for Halloween). I've tried designating "Wyl's candy" and
"family
> candy" (he eats all his and then starts asking for the small bit
that is
> "family candy"). I've tried putting it all out in a large bowl
right on their table
> so it is always in arm's reach, on the shelves they can reach and
up high
> where I can only reach-well, until Wyl started climbing-so I could
get it for
> them and say "yes" every time they asked. He seems to get some
nutrition,
> because he has energy and looks healthy, but I do have a *very*
slight concern
> that he's starting to get winded while playing and he's starting to
look a wee
> bit flabby around the torso. Nothing I'm highly concerned about, just
> *noticing*. Its mostly the volume of consumption and the possible
lack of nutrition
> that I'm mildly concerned about. And slightly annoyed at the
constant layer
> of candy wrappers all over the house, as well as discarded/dropped
sticky
> candy bits in the couch and carpet. (Storm tends to put a piece in
his mouth,
> bite down, decide he doesn't like it and then deposit it in the
most convenient
> place-for him.)
>
> Pop, however, is a biggie for me. He often drinks so much, he hasn't
room to
> eat anything nutritious. I was really excited last week to find
sugar-pop at
> Super Walmart! It was 2 days after we had done our grocery shopping,
so I had
> already gotten his 4 pack of bottles and 6 pack of cans (probably
$10-13 for
> both), but I was just SO excited finding it somewhere more
accessible than
> our organic market AND under $3 for an 8-pack of cans that I bought
it, too.
> Within 5 days (I don't pay close attention to how much he drinks by
the day,
> because it would freak me out, so I try to ignore it as much as
humanly
> possible), all 18 containers of pop were gone. Add to that the
minor annoyance of
> pop cans that he likes to bend and twist apart and leave lying on
the floor
> all sharp and pointy, pop tabs torn off & bottle caps and left
everywhere, and
> whole cans and bottles tossed on the floor, behind the couch, on the
> furniture, in the yard-wherever it lands. I'm NOT comfortable with
chemical
> sugar-substitute sweeteners, but he's found a flavored water that
has aspartame in it,
> and I will buy him one a week-no more. He's not offered to buy any
pop on
> his own with his allowance, but I certainly couldn't say no to
that... (He does
> occasionally insist on buying candy with his allowance, even when
we offer
> to buy it for him.) I also have serious concerns about the
phosphorous and
> its affect on the calcium in bones-especially growing bones, and
that is really
> the "big green monster" of my worry about pop. I've talked to DH about
> brewing pop at home so we can avoid that all together, and he's got
the equipment
> and is willing, but his work just doesn't allow him much time for
stuff like
> that. I can't find a brewed soda anywhere to buy.
>
> This is worrying both DH *AND* I, and sometimes DH will gripe to Wyl
about
> it. Every once in a while (like last week with the 18 pops), I will
casually
> comment on the amount/time period. I know sometimes I'm just not
aware of my
> consumption of a thing until its brought to my attention, so I'll
mention
> it-but without judgment. Occasionally (every 3 months or so?? not
sure), I will
> mention my concern over calcium, and more often, I will put in my 2
cents worth
> about chemical sweeteners-though not while he's enjoying his
flavored water,
> or near that time... usually when he's asking for the second one in
a week.
>
> What's worse is that DH keeps some diet pop in the house for when
he's home
> (even though I express my concerns to him about chemical sweeteners,
too-he
> choses to keep drinking it) in 20 oz bottles and Wyl has started
drinking DH's
> pop. He'll take one DH hasn't finished and finish it, and last week, he
> opened all 5 of the bottles DH had here and took even amounts out
of them, so they
> all looked equal, but the pop level was below the label. The
"sneaking" is
> my alarm bell-we definitely need to adjust something somewhere.
>
> Oddly enough, sometimes, its not the *consumption* that seems to be
the big
> thing. He'll swish it in his mouth a long time before drinking it.
Or he'll
> put some in his mouth and spit it in cool arcs in the yard or make
wet patterns
> on the porch or sidewalk. Sometimes, he'll shake one up and open it
just to
> watch the fizz go all over. Or just pour it out of the can/bottle
to make
> neat patterns. He must have used half his pop in this way about 3
weeks ago.
> Last week, it was all drunk and drunk one right after the other,
fast. Sometimes
> it makes me think of chain-smoking... He chugs one down, leaves the
can on
> the table and goes for another-sometimes 3-5 in a row like this (not
> sure-again, I try not to notice too much).
>
> I know there's a line there somewhere between trust and protection
and with
> some things I'm good and I know that line, but with internal things
like
> nutrition and healthy bones that you can't *measure* damage or lack
thereof, I
> have a hard time with finding that line. Things that cause bone
breakage,
> sprains, scrapes, bruises, splinters, punctures, cuts, rashes, etc.
I'm very good
> at balancing information given and trusting that if something *does*
happen,
> I can cope, assess, do damage control, and reassure. I have loads of
> information/experience tucked away in my head about that, having had
a large share of
> injuries as a kid (and since) and dealing with them. I'm sure a good
portion
> of this whole thing is we parents needing to relax a bit and deal,
but I
> don't know *how* to do that.
>
> Peace,
> Sang
>
> Wyl 4/99 and Storm 10/04
>
> Oh, an afterthought-we have parades here where they throw candy to
the kids
> along the parade route and tootsie rolls are very cheap and most
parade units
> throw those. Both boys *have* had their fill of tootsie rolls (at
least the
> chocolate ones), and neither will eat them anymore.
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at
http://www.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-Here in
Australia the childhood obesity rate is soaring,...-=-
Among schoolkids, right? Kids who live with way more rules than
freedom, right?
-=-... and children as young
as 10 years old are developing type 2 diabetes. It all comes down to
poor diet and lack of education.-=-
No, that's not *all* it comes down to.
And there is a whole lot of talk about diabetes that's used to
control people and to sell drugs and expensive testing equipment.
It's a condition, and not a disease someone catches.
-=-I have had gestational diabetes twice so I
know the effects and dangers of this disease.-=-
Eeek.
Please go and read what midwives know about "gestational diabetes."
Pregnancy isn't a disease, and pregnant women don't metabolize as
others, but they are measured against charts on non-pregnant people,
and rather than people talking to them about eating more protein,
they give them insulin, while they're trying to gestate babies.
Trusting one's body more than one trusts a doctor is a good start
toward trusting one's children.
Those on the list who are new to unschooling or who aren't really
convinced that it can work should think before posting whether the
advice given is coming from an unschooling point of view.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Australia the childhood obesity rate is soaring,...-=-
Among schoolkids, right? Kids who live with way more rules than
freedom, right?
-=-... and children as young
as 10 years old are developing type 2 diabetes. It all comes down to
poor diet and lack of education.-=-
No, that's not *all* it comes down to.
And there is a whole lot of talk about diabetes that's used to
control people and to sell drugs and expensive testing equipment.
It's a condition, and not a disease someone catches.
-=-I have had gestational diabetes twice so I
know the effects and dangers of this disease.-=-
Eeek.
Please go and read what midwives know about "gestational diabetes."
Pregnancy isn't a disease, and pregnant women don't metabolize as
others, but they are measured against charts on non-pregnant people,
and rather than people talking to them about eating more protein,
they give them insulin, while they're trying to gestate babies.
Trusting one's body more than one trusts a doctor is a good start
toward trusting one's children.
Those on the list who are new to unschooling or who aren't really
convinced that it can work should think before posting whether the
advice given is coming from an unschooling point of view.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sep 27, 2007, at 10:46 AM, Sanguinegirl83@... wrote:
"shelf"-- like really amazingly wonderful homemade goodies that have
more nutrition. Just thinking it might help you and your dh relax
more and maybe he'll develop a taste for yummy and more healthy
stuff. I'm not saying give him dry wheat germ-only cookies - not if
he's used to store-bought candy. But, things like homemade rice
crispy treats, oatmeal chocolate chip cookies or peanut-butter balls
or banana slices dipped in chocolate and frozen. Nuts - every sauteed
raw almonds with a little butter and cinnamon? Heavenly. Or, ice
cream with nut toppings, smoothies, frozen yogurt, frozen grapes,
baked apple slices with cinnamon, apple or pear slices dipped in
melted chocolate or caramel. Seems like you can indulge his sweet
tooth and increase the nutrition content. Maybe if you focus on
finding somewhat more nutritious stuff that he enjoys and then repeat
those, it'll take your mind off the other stuff and I bet that'll
take the pressure off. Of COURSE, don't present these as substitutes,
present them as your own new hobby of cooking/making yummy stuff.
Peanut butter balls are especially wonderful - here is a really
simple and really good recipe. We freeze them, too.
1 1/4 cup peanut butter (either smooth or crunchy)
1 1/4 cup dry milk
3/4 cup honey
Mix all three ingredients best you can. Then use your hands and mix
all the way. Make little one inch balls. Put the balls on waxed
paper. Put in fridge for about half hour (or freeze some, too).
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> No, I think its more of a case of having bought into "the sky isMaybe just consider adding more options - put more things on his
> falling"
> that is probably at the crux of my fears. I guess I'll have to keep
> searching
> for unbiased information on phosphorous and calcium loss. I'm
> seeking help to
> get over the input from Chicken Little.
"shelf"-- like really amazingly wonderful homemade goodies that have
more nutrition. Just thinking it might help you and your dh relax
more and maybe he'll develop a taste for yummy and more healthy
stuff. I'm not saying give him dry wheat germ-only cookies - not if
he's used to store-bought candy. But, things like homemade rice
crispy treats, oatmeal chocolate chip cookies or peanut-butter balls
or banana slices dipped in chocolate and frozen. Nuts - every sauteed
raw almonds with a little butter and cinnamon? Heavenly. Or, ice
cream with nut toppings, smoothies, frozen yogurt, frozen grapes,
baked apple slices with cinnamon, apple or pear slices dipped in
melted chocolate or caramel. Seems like you can indulge his sweet
tooth and increase the nutrition content. Maybe if you focus on
finding somewhat more nutritious stuff that he enjoys and then repeat
those, it'll take your mind off the other stuff and I bet that'll
take the pressure off. Of COURSE, don't present these as substitutes,
present them as your own new hobby of cooking/making yummy stuff.
Peanut butter balls are especially wonderful - here is a really
simple and really good recipe. We freeze them, too.
1 1/4 cup peanut butter (either smooth or crunchy)
1 1/4 cup dry milk
3/4 cup honey
Mix all three ingredients best you can. Then use your hands and mix
all the way. Make little one inch balls. Put the balls on waxed
paper. Put in fridge for about half hour (or freeze some, too).
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
> I need some help getting my (and DH's) concerns under control.Yay! What a nice preface to a lot of concern.
Within your very long list of worries the picture you paint is one of you
working very hard to make sure that he has easy access to the foods you are
most uncomfortable with him eating and not quite necessarily such easy
access to other foods. Today Simon went and grabbed candy that was in the
easiest place for there to be food. I realized, watching him, that I was
hungry but that there wasn't anything easy to get at except chips and candy,
so I got some matzo and buttered and vegemited it and offered some to both
Simon and Linnaea. I also offered them some new flavor of cranberry juice
David had gotten from the store. They both were hungry and wanted to be
catered to. They both took a glass of juice and a matzo. Because I made
something appealling to them more accesible, or not any effort for them, it
was a nice option.
Occassionally I feel like their diet isn't filled with as much diversity as
usual and that is my cue to step up my efforts to make sure there are lots
of yummy options easily available. I wasn't concerned that Simon was having
candy, I was concerned that he was having candy because anything else was
more effort than he wanted to put out (even as little effort as asking
me--often just thinking about what you want to eat to ask for it is more
effort than he or Linnaea really want to take away from whatever else it is
they are doing).
Maybe you could start putting together platters. Offer Wyl and Storm
platters of food filled with cheese cubes and olives on sticks and maybe
some cubed fruit and crisps and chocolates, lots of variety. Bring it to
wherever they are, so they don't have to make the effort. Don't worry about
what gets eaten and what doesn't. See it as a gift that they get to choose
what they do with it. About the soda consumption, try making your own. Not
as an alternative, but as something else to offer. Get some soda water and
yummy flavors like coconut or banana or caramel or whatever and let Wyl mix
up what he wants and see what he thinks of that. Or brew some root beer and
ginger ale. We've done it a couple of times, it hasn't come out right yet,
but it is fun trying. (if you google soda flavors there are some cool
sites). You could set up your own soda fountain and get those really cool
old fashioned soda glasses and make creamed soda and your own cokes and lots
of different flavored sodas. Oof, that sounds fun, maybe I need to get some
more flavors. The syrup stuff is also really yummy on shaved ice. Really
jazz up the whole soda experience!!!
I would also not put a time limit on the stuff in the cupboard. It could set
up two things, one a sense that he needs to eat everything on his shelf by
the next time you go to the store so that he can get his allotted amount,
and two, a sense that you aren't willing to help him get the things that he
wants when he wants them, if at all possible. We only have one car, so today
Simon and Linnaea and I are housebound. However, Linnaea wants some more Dr.
Pepper. So, rather than tell her she has to wait until tomorrow when we'll
have the car, I e-mailed David and asked him to pick up a bottle. I think,
to some extent, by honoring her desire for Dr. Pepper by getting it for her,
I'm not making her feel desperate or discounted. It isn't a rare good, nor
is it something that is charged with shame or excitement, or a treat. It
just is a food item. If they wanted eggs to scramble or pears, or whatever
I'd do the same.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
cecegary
I'm trying really hard to stay out of this discussion because health IS
my area, and I really don't think this is the list to get advice from
about food choices, but this statement that someone made:
<<Nuts - every sauteed raw almonds with a little butter and cinnamon?>>
is inaccurate. If nuts are "sauteed" they are no longer "raw". It would
be good to also point out that all almonds are now pasteurized, so
there really isn't anything left in them that is nutritious, but then
you guys think candy is "nutritious," so I guess there's no reason to
point that out to you.
Enjoy!
Chelsea
my area, and I really don't think this is the list to get advice from
about food choices, but this statement that someone made:
<<Nuts - every sauteed raw almonds with a little butter and cinnamon?>>
is inaccurate. If nuts are "sauteed" they are no longer "raw". It would
be good to also point out that all almonds are now pasteurized, so
there really isn't anything left in them that is nutritious, but then
you guys think candy is "nutritious," so I guess there's no reason to
point that out to you.
Enjoy!
Chelsea
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sep 28, 2007, at 6:50 AM, cecegary wrote:
raw almonds. After you saute them a bit, they're clearly not raw
anymore. As opposed to the usual roasted, salted ones that you get in
the grocery store that have a lot of oil already.
Plus, "you guys think" is pretty much guaranteed to be wrong - how
can you expect your own information to be credible when we can see
right up front that you read one person's post and attribute it to
"you guys," as if everyone here is in agreement?
With two examples of you not appearing to be clear in your own
thinking, why should we just take your word for what the outcome of
pasteurization is?
So far, by the way, it is still possible to buy unpasteurized raw
almonds, they will be less and less available as the new mandate
started just this month.
There isn't good evidence that pasteurization eliminates nutritional
value, much less absolutely all nutrition. If nothing else it leaves
dietary fiber, which, itself, is something valuable.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> <<Nuts - every sauteed raw almonds with a little butter andLOL - okay, first, is it not obvious that I meant that you START with
> cinnamon?>>
>
> is inaccurate. If nuts are "sauteed" they are no longer "raw". It
> would
> be good to also point out that all almonds are now pasteurized, so
> there really isn't anything left in them that is nutritious, but then
> you guys think candy is "nutritious," so I guess there's no reason to
> point that out to you.
raw almonds. After you saute them a bit, they're clearly not raw
anymore. As opposed to the usual roasted, salted ones that you get in
the grocery store that have a lot of oil already.
Plus, "you guys think" is pretty much guaranteed to be wrong - how
can you expect your own information to be credible when we can see
right up front that you read one person's post and attribute it to
"you guys," as if everyone here is in agreement?
With two examples of you not appearing to be clear in your own
thinking, why should we just take your word for what the outcome of
pasteurization is?
So far, by the way, it is still possible to buy unpasteurized raw
almonds, they will be less and less available as the new mandate
started just this month.
There isn't good evidence that pasteurization eliminates nutritional
value, much less absolutely all nutrition. If nothing else it leaves
dietary fiber, which, itself, is something valuable.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/28/2007 4:17:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
tpmac@... writes:
<I feel that there is an important issue here that
hasn't been brought up yet, and that is of your son's health. Here in
Australia the childhood obesity rate is soaring,>
I didn't realize I had given the impression that Wyl was obese-just the
opposite, really. He has just recently stopped looking like he's "too thin", as
he gets older and fills out. For his first 6 years, we had varying concerns
about his thinness.
To be clear, its not the *sugar* that concerns me. He will learn his balance
with that. Keeping him sugar-free certainly isn't any sort of guarantee that
he won't end up with diabetes-how betrayed would he feel if I justified
controlling his food for his "safety" because of diabetes and he ended up with it
anyway? Would he think I was trustworthy then?
I didn't post here to this group for "help" finding ways to control, I
wanted help finding ways to help adjust my thinking so I could *relax* the control
I now feel I need. Sort of feel I need.... maybe know I don't really *need*
it, but am needing help in finding my way out of control. Control seems to
not only control the controllee, but also the controller!
Peace,
Sang
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tpmac@... writes:
<I feel that there is an important issue here that
hasn't been brought up yet, and that is of your son's health. Here in
Australia the childhood obesity rate is soaring,>
I didn't realize I had given the impression that Wyl was obese-just the
opposite, really. He has just recently stopped looking like he's "too thin", as
he gets older and fills out. For his first 6 years, we had varying concerns
about his thinness.
To be clear, its not the *sugar* that concerns me. He will learn his balance
with that. Keeping him sugar-free certainly isn't any sort of guarantee that
he won't end up with diabetes-how betrayed would he feel if I justified
controlling his food for his "safety" because of diabetes and he ended up with it
anyway? Would he think I was trustworthy then?
I didn't post here to this group for "help" finding ways to control, I
wanted help finding ways to help adjust my thinking so I could *relax* the control
I now feel I need. Sort of feel I need.... maybe know I don't really *need*
it, but am needing help in finding my way out of control. Control seems to
not only control the controllee, but also the controller!
Peace,
Sang
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cecegary
Since Sandra is adamant about saying exactly what you mean, I thought
it was appropriate to clarify what you said about raw almonds. You
implied (by adding "raw" to "almonds") that this was something of
importance, but indeed the result of what you suggested is NOT raw,
so it was very ambiguous. Why would it be important to use "raw"
almonds in your recipe if you were just going to sautee them anyway?
You don't have to take my word for anything (since I'm apparently,
according to you, too "inconsistent" to trust). All you have to do is
a little research about almonds and pasteurization. It's easy to
verify what I have posted. Very easy.
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
will you know since labeling is not required?
almonds, which was once used as a racing fuel. It's an epoxide. I'm
not cool with putting that into my body. And the worst part is
that "raw" almonds will continue to be sold as "raw" even though they
have been pasteurized (so it's a lie, and a slippery slope). But back
to your point...of course it depends on what one
considers "nutritional value," which I have seen VERY loosely defined
on this list, particularly by you, so I would say we don't see eye-to-
eye on this.
actually include nutrients too (and no racing fuel).
Chelsea
it was appropriate to clarify what you said about raw almonds. You
implied (by adding "raw" to "almonds") that this was something of
importance, but indeed the result of what you suggested is NOT raw,
so it was very ambiguous. Why would it be important to use "raw"
almonds in your recipe if you were just going to sautee them anyway?
You don't have to take my word for anything (since I'm apparently,
according to you, too "inconsistent" to trust). All you have to do is
a little research about almonds and pasteurization. It's easy to
verify what I have posted. Very easy.
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> So far, by the way, it is still possible to buy unpasteurized rawTrue. If you rush right out you MIGHT be able to find some, but how
> almonds, they will be less and less available as the new mandate
> started just this month.
will you know since labeling is not required?
> There isn't good evidence that pasteurization eliminatesnutritional
> value, much less absolutely all nutrition.This is absolutely not true. Propylene oxide is used to pasteurize
almonds, which was once used as a racing fuel. It's an epoxide. I'm
not cool with putting that into my body. And the worst part is
that "raw" almonds will continue to be sold as "raw" even though they
have been pasteurized (so it's a lie, and a slippery slope). But back
to your point...of course it depends on what one
considers "nutritional value," which I have seen VERY loosely defined
on this list, particularly by you, so I would say we don't see eye-to-
eye on this.
> If nothing else it leavesThere are lots of things you can eat that provide dietary fiber that
> dietary fiber, which, itself, is something valuable.
actually include nutrients too (and no racing fuel).
Chelsea
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/28/2007 5:38:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
<Maybe just consider adding more options - put more things on his
"shelf"-- like really amazingly wonderful homemade goodies that have
more nutrition. Just thinking it might help you and your dh relax
more and maybe he'll develop a taste for yummy and more healthy
stuff. >
Thanks! Reading some of the things here folks have posted about "more
nutritious options" has made me realize my focus was off. Really off. Both boys
like nutritious foods; broccoli, whole wheat bread (they will often chose it
over the white bread and I end up tossing most of the loaf!), whole wheat pasta,
milk and cheeses, peanut butter, cashews, brussels sprouts, asparagus, raw
fruits and veggies of all kinds... The upswing in candy consumption just stuck
out in my mind like a sore thumb, but all the conversation here has helped
me re-focus and look *beyond* the candy and pop and see that they really do
have a good *base*. Wyl just wanders away for a while, but he always dabbles and
so far has always returned to the nutritious "base".
Whew.
Peace,
Sang
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
<Maybe just consider adding more options - put more things on his
"shelf"-- like really amazingly wonderful homemade goodies that have
more nutrition. Just thinking it might help you and your dh relax
more and maybe he'll develop a taste for yummy and more healthy
stuff. >
Thanks! Reading some of the things here folks have posted about "more
nutritious options" has made me realize my focus was off. Really off. Both boys
like nutritious foods; broccoli, whole wheat bread (they will often chose it
over the white bread and I end up tossing most of the loaf!), whole wheat pasta,
milk and cheeses, peanut butter, cashews, brussels sprouts, asparagus, raw
fruits and veggies of all kinds... The upswing in candy consumption just stuck
out in my mind like a sore thumb, but all the conversation here has helped
me re-focus and look *beyond* the candy and pop and see that they really do
have a good *base*. Wyl just wanders away for a while, but he always dabbles and
so far has always returned to the nutritious "base".
Whew.
Peace,
Sang
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
On 9/28/07, cecegary <cgary@...> wrote:
A bit of chemicals while joyfully enjoying some fresh roasted sweet almonds
with happy and free kids -OR- fear of chemicals and a mama who controls food
choices to avoid what *could* hurt later??
Having lost a child at 9.5 (nope, not due to chemicals in her food!) I'd say
that everyday we lived in Trust & Love, without fear were days I'll hold in
my heart without ANY regret. Thankfully the times I said NO out of fear were
few and far between and we all learned from those experiences and I'm not in
any way trapped there.
My main goal for supporting Hayden and his food choices/autonomy is to have
an amazing *relationship* with him that leads directly to his having a great
relationship with himself and his environment. He counts on me to be honest
with information and honest with my opinion and honest in my trust in him.
*This* is the component I see missing from the morbidly obese folks in my
own family - food is more comforting than mama; not at my house!
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>The bottom line is: Which is more dangerous in the long run?
> This is absolutely not true. Propylene oxide is used to pasteurize
> almonds, which was once used as a racing fuel. It's an epoxide. I'm
> not cool with putting that into my body. And the worst part is
> that "raw" almonds will continue to be sold as "raw" even though they
> have been pasteurized (so it's a lie, and a slippery slope). But back
> to your point...of course it depends on what one
> considers "nutritional value," which I have seen VERY loosely defined
> on this list, particularly by you, so I would say we don't see eye-to-
> eye on this.
>
> > If nothing else it leaves
> > dietary fiber, which, itself, is something valuable.
>
> There are lots of things you can eat that provide dietary fiber that
> actually include nutrients too (and no racing fuel).
>
> .
>
>
>
A bit of chemicals while joyfully enjoying some fresh roasted sweet almonds
with happy and free kids -OR- fear of chemicals and a mama who controls food
choices to avoid what *could* hurt later??
Having lost a child at 9.5 (nope, not due to chemicals in her food!) I'd say
that everyday we lived in Trust & Love, without fear were days I'll hold in
my heart without ANY regret. Thankfully the times I said NO out of fear were
few and far between and we all learned from those experiences and I'm not in
any way trapped there.
My main goal for supporting Hayden and his food choices/autonomy is to have
an amazing *relationship* with him that leads directly to his having a great
relationship with himself and his environment. He counts on me to be honest
with information and honest with my opinion and honest in my trust in him.
*This* is the component I see missing from the morbidly obese folks in my
own family - food is more comforting than mama; not at my house!
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]