DD wants to try school
Nicole LoBue
Hi there,
I think I've been a member of this group for years but forgot about
it and haven't posted in a very long time.
I've been unschooling my 8yo daughter since she was two and my 4yo
since birth. Last night they both decided that they wanted to go to
school. I'm tempted to let Lauren (8yo) go for a day or a week so
she could see how it is, but here are my concerns:
She barely reads at a first grade level and her math skills are the
same. Though she can read and do simple math, she walks around
telling everyone that she doesn't know how. I'm concerned that one
day with a school teacher will have CPS at my door. I like to stay
under the radar.
My other concern is, what if she likes it? I'm vehemently opposed to
how children are taught in school and the mind control that goes on.
It would not be okay with me to have her in school.
Thoughts anyone?
Nicole
I think I've been a member of this group for years but forgot about
it and haven't posted in a very long time.
I've been unschooling my 8yo daughter since she was two and my 4yo
since birth. Last night they both decided that they wanted to go to
school. I'm tempted to let Lauren (8yo) go for a day or a week so
she could see how it is, but here are my concerns:
She barely reads at a first grade level and her math skills are the
same. Though she can read and do simple math, she walks around
telling everyone that she doesn't know how. I'm concerned that one
day with a school teacher will have CPS at my door. I like to stay
under the radar.
My other concern is, what if she likes it? I'm vehemently opposed to
how children are taught in school and the mind control that goes on.
It would not be okay with me to have her in school.
Thoughts anyone?
Nicole
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<<> I've been unschooling my 8yo daughter since she was two and my 4yo
she will get from school that she is not getting now?
I'm guessing, perhaps incorrectly, that the younger is asking for school to
be like big sister, so I guess focussing on Lauren's reasons would be my
first concern.
Robyn L. Coburn
> since birth. Last night they both decided that they wanted to go toBefore anything else, why does Lauren want to try school? What does she feel
> school. I'm tempted to let Lauren (8yo) go for a day or a week so
> she could see how it is, >>>
she will get from school that she is not getting now?
I'm guessing, perhaps incorrectly, that the younger is asking for school to
be like big sister, so I guess focussing on Lauren's reasons would be my
first concern.
Robyn L. Coburn
harmony
I agree with the last answer that you should find out why she wants to go to school. My kids wanted to go also when they were younger because I worked in a daycare and all their friends went to school and talked about how fun it was.
I have heard of homeschool groups playing school. Either making if boring and controlling so the kids see that it isn't fun or the kids might really like the structure and think it's fun. If they like it, you could have a group of other interested kids and "do school" once a week or whenever.
The bus is always exciting to lots of kids too. You can go for a ride on the public transportation if you have any in your town so they can ride a bus.
It would really depend on your dd's reason for wanting to go.
I have heard of homeschool groups playing school. Either making if boring and controlling so the kids see that it isn't fun or the kids might really like the structure and think it's fun. If they like it, you could have a group of other interested kids and "do school" once a week or whenever.
The bus is always exciting to lots of kids too. You can go for a ride on the public transportation if you have any in your town so they can ride a bus.
It would really depend on your dd's reason for wanting to go.
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Nicole LoBue <mamalobue@...>
> Subject: [AlwaysLearning] DD wants to try school
> Sent: Sep 15 '07 6:57pm
>
> Hi there,
>
> I think I've been a member of this group for years but forgot about
> it and haven't posted in a very long time.
>
> I've been unschooling my 8yo daughter since she was two and my 4yo
> since birth. Last night they both decided that they wanted to go to
> school. I'm tempted to let Lauren (8yo) go for a day or a week so
> she could see how it is, but here are my concerns:
>
> She barely reads at a first grade level and her math skills are the
> same. Though she can read and do simple math, she walks around
> telling everyone that she doesn't know how. I'm concerned that one
> day with a school teacher will have CPS at my door. I like to stay
> under the radar.
>
> My other concern is, what if she likes it? I'm vehemently opposed to
> how children are taught in school and the mind control that goes on.
> It would not be okay with me to have her in school.
>
> Thoughts anyone?
>
> Nicole
>
>
Vicki Dennis
On another list (or perhaps this one) more than one parent has stated in
similar words "I am of the I don't let my children play in the street and I
don't let them go to school opinion".
My opinion is that if she were older it would be appropriate to involve her
much more in making the decision. But 8 is barely past babyhood (says the
grandmother). Frankly I would be more likely to let an 8 year old play
in the street than attend a traditional "school". For me, the better
line would be "I don't send them to play in a toxic dump, why would I allow
them to attend school?".
vicki
P.S.: By the way, it is also my opinion (based on experience) that barely
reading at a first grade level (whatever that is, blech) at age 8 makes
it more likely that eventually she will be an extremely competent
reader.............PROVIDED she is not pushed to "improve" before she is
ready.
similar words "I am of the I don't let my children play in the street and I
don't let them go to school opinion".
My opinion is that if she were older it would be appropriate to involve her
much more in making the decision. But 8 is barely past babyhood (says the
grandmother). Frankly I would be more likely to let an 8 year old play
in the street than attend a traditional "school". For me, the better
line would be "I don't send them to play in a toxic dump, why would I allow
them to attend school?".
vicki
P.S.: By the way, it is also my opinion (based on experience) that barely
reading at a first grade level (whatever that is, blech) at age 8 makes
it more likely that eventually she will be an extremely competent
reader.............PROVIDED she is not pushed to "improve" before she is
ready.
On 9/15/07, Nicole LoBue < mamalobue@...> wrote:
>
> My other concern is, what if she likes it? I'm vehemently opposed to
> how children are taught in school and the mind control that goes on.
> It would not be okay with me to have her in school.
>
> Thoughts anyone?
>
> Nicole
>
> _
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
It seems you're looking more at school and at what they can't do than
at them and what you all could be doing.
-=-I've been unschooling my 8yo daughter since she was two and my 4yo
since birth. Last night they both decided that they wanted to go to
school-=-
My first temptation is to ask what you were doing with your older
daughter before she was two. Surely not "Schooling" her... (unless
you took her out of a structured daycare or something)...
But that's not important now. It's important for you to think about,
I think, because maybe your definition and view of unschooling could
be looked at and clarified.
You probably wouldn't be able to let her go to school for one day.
If you do decide to let them go to school, reading this might help:
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
-=-Though she can read and do simple math, she walks around
telling everyone that she doesn't know how. I'm concerned that one
day with a school teacher will have CPS at my door.-=-
It won't take school enrollment to get attention, if she's walking
around telling people what she doesn't know.
I think you might want to look at making your homelife way more
interesting and busy so they won't want to go to school. We can help
you think of ways to do that.
Here are other ideas:
http://sandradodd.com/nest
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
Maybe some of these pages will give you ideas, and if you're not
getting out of the house at least two or three times a week to do
cool stuff, maybe schedule up some outings, quickly, and make your
unschooling life rich and exciting (which will, at the same time,
make it work better).
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
http://sandradodd.com/arts
http://sandradodd.com/history
http://sandradodd.com/connections
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
at them and what you all could be doing.
-=-I've been unschooling my 8yo daughter since she was two and my 4yo
since birth. Last night they both decided that they wanted to go to
school-=-
My first temptation is to ask what you were doing with your older
daughter before she was two. Surely not "Schooling" her... (unless
you took her out of a structured daycare or something)...
But that's not important now. It's important for you to think about,
I think, because maybe your definition and view of unschooling could
be looked at and clarified.
You probably wouldn't be able to let her go to school for one day.
If you do decide to let them go to school, reading this might help:
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
-=-Though she can read and do simple math, she walks around
telling everyone that she doesn't know how. I'm concerned that one
day with a school teacher will have CPS at my door.-=-
It won't take school enrollment to get attention, if she's walking
around telling people what she doesn't know.
I think you might want to look at making your homelife way more
interesting and busy so they won't want to go to school. We can help
you think of ways to do that.
Here are other ideas:
http://sandradodd.com/nest
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
Maybe some of these pages will give you ideas, and if you're not
getting out of the house at least two or three times a week to do
cool stuff, maybe schedule up some outings, quickly, and make your
unschooling life rich and exciting (which will, at the same time,
make it work better).
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
http://sandradodd.com/arts
http://sandradodd.com/history
http://sandradodd.com/connections
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jessica
We had a request of our youngest 6yo DS last night & I was trying to find out why he wants to try going to school... I'd just rather stay out of the district's radar since we live in TX where we don't have to let the school district know if we're homeschooling unless we're pulling our child(ren) from school...
I'm trying to find out why R wants to go to school... is it friends? We can try to make some... There aren't very many kids in our neighborhood, but we're going to start going to the unschooling get togethers... perhaps he'd like a backpack? Does he want homework or a little more formal school-at-home stuff? (when I mentioned this, he made a face, LOL!!)
He's been teaching himself how to read from stuff he does on the computer (dragonfable is one, he's been on starfall, neopets is another, maybe pardus, I can't think offhand what other sites he & his brothers have been to)... and occasionally goes through the little Bob Books we have and another learn to read book I found at a used bookstore and countless other books we have around the house & library books...
He picks them up or asks for them when the mood hits and tries to read from harry potter book 1... no pushing here...
His 3 older brothers attended school in another district from k-4 (twins now 12) and k-1 (now almost 10) and they've been out of school for 2 years now... they can give him an idea what school was like for them...
I told him that if he'd like to, we can go take a walk around the school so he can see what it is like. I don't want to just plain say no, but to just explore what school is/means, etc...
I suspect that he may miss homeschool co-op: we're not going this year because the co-op dissolved. We do plan to start going to hang with the unschoolers (which is almost an hour away) so maybe that will help.
Of my 4 boys, he's the only one who has been always unschooled...
Cheers,
Jessica
http://weavingrainbow.com/blog
I'm trying to find out why R wants to go to school... is it friends? We can try to make some... There aren't very many kids in our neighborhood, but we're going to start going to the unschooling get togethers... perhaps he'd like a backpack? Does he want homework or a little more formal school-at-home stuff? (when I mentioned this, he made a face, LOL!!)
He's been teaching himself how to read from stuff he does on the computer (dragonfable is one, he's been on starfall, neopets is another, maybe pardus, I can't think offhand what other sites he & his brothers have been to)... and occasionally goes through the little Bob Books we have and another learn to read book I found at a used bookstore and countless other books we have around the house & library books...
He picks them up or asks for them when the mood hits and tries to read from harry potter book 1... no pushing here...
His 3 older brothers attended school in another district from k-4 (twins now 12) and k-1 (now almost 10) and they've been out of school for 2 years now... they can give him an idea what school was like for them...
I told him that if he'd like to, we can go take a walk around the school so he can see what it is like. I don't want to just plain say no, but to just explore what school is/means, etc...
I suspect that he may miss homeschool co-op: we're not going this year because the co-op dissolved. We do plan to start going to hang with the unschoolers (which is almost an hour away) so maybe that will help.
Of my 4 boys, he's the only one who has been always unschooled...
> I've been unschooling my 8yo daughter since she was two and my 4yoHope that helps? I'm thinking we just need to make sure we hang out with other kids... things changed since last year (with the coop dissolving: he looked forward to that) so we need to see what to do this year, blah blah blah...
> since birth. Last night they both decided that they wanted to go to
> school. I'm tempted to let Lauren (8yo) go for a day or a week so
> she could see how it is, but here are my concerns:
Cheers,
Jessica
http://weavingrainbow.com/blog
Sandra Dodd
-=He's been teaching himself how to read from stuff he does on the
computer-=-
This will undoubtedly seem picky to those who are new to unschooling,
but big an obvious to others who have been doing it for a while.
If you think of that (and word it) as "He's been learning to read
some from stuff he does on the computer" instead of "teaching
himself," it will create a small shift in your point of view and
small changes of direction early in the journey result in completely
different destinations.
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
The more we think of "teaching" the harder it is to see natural
learning.
The more we think of "learning," the more we see it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
computer-=-
This will undoubtedly seem picky to those who are new to unschooling,
but big an obvious to others who have been doing it for a while.
If you think of that (and word it) as "He's been learning to read
some from stuff he does on the computer" instead of "teaching
himself," it will create a small shift in your point of view and
small changes of direction early in the journey result in completely
different destinations.
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
The more we think of "teaching" the harder it is to see natural
learning.
The more we think of "learning," the more we see it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sep 16, 2007, at 9:00 AM, Jessica wrote:
he goes to school, all you have to do is give them a letter saying
you're withdrawing him and there isn't any further reporting or
follow-up.
Maybe he wants to be special? With 3 older siblings, maybe he's
feeling a little left out or lost in the shuffle of all the stuff
they do?
Maybe you can find a class of some kind just for him. My youngest
daughter went to a nature center class - every weekday for 2 hours
for three weeks. From then on she would talk about, "My Teacher,"
with great pride, especially to her siblings and to neighborhood kids.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> We had a request of our youngest 6yo DS last night & I was tryingYou don't have to worry about being under the radar in TX - even if
> to find out why he wants to try going to school... I'd just rather
> stay out of the district's radar since we live in TX where we don't
> have to let the school district know if we're homeschooling unless
> we're pulling our child(ren) from school...
he goes to school, all you have to do is give them a letter saying
you're withdrawing him and there isn't any further reporting or
follow-up.
Maybe he wants to be special? With 3 older siblings, maybe he's
feeling a little left out or lost in the shuffle of all the stuff
they do?
Maybe you can find a class of some kind just for him. My youngest
daughter went to a nature center class - every weekday for 2 hours
for three weeks. From then on she would talk about, "My Teacher,"
with great pride, especially to her siblings and to neighborhood kids.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Maybe you can find a class of some kind just for him. My youngest
daughter went to a nature center class - every weekday for 2 hours
for three weeks. From then on she would talk about, "My Teacher,"
with great pride, especially to her siblings and to neighborhood
kids.-=-
Holly had a dance class and then she could talk about her teacher.
It helped.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
daughter went to a nature center class - every weekday for 2 hours
for three weeks. From then on she would talk about, "My Teacher,"
with great pride, especially to her siblings and to neighborhood
kids.-=-
Holly had a dance class and then she could talk about her teacher.
It helped.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On Sep 16, 2007, at 9:00 AM, Jessica wrote:
Little League t-ball, and I'm sure he had lots of questions about why
he was homeschooled. When he brought it up, it was with the plaintive
"Mommy, I think I'm smart enough to go to school..." He thought he was
being homeschooled because he was too dumb for school. I asked him
what he thought he would learn in school; he didn't know. I told him
that he'd be in first grade, and in first grade they mostly learned to
read. He'd been reading since he was 4, virtually self-taught. I
said, "You know how to read, right? What would you do all day in
school while the other kids learn to read?" :-) That satisfied him.
You might want to clarify why your son wants to go.
Nancy (my little boy is 17 now, btw, and always unschooled)
> Of my 4 boys, he's the only one who has been always unschooled...When my son was about 6, he started asking about school. He'd been in
Little League t-ball, and I'm sure he had lots of questions about why
he was homeschooled. When he brought it up, it was with the plaintive
"Mommy, I think I'm smart enough to go to school..." He thought he was
being homeschooled because he was too dumb for school. I asked him
what he thought he would learn in school; he didn't know. I told him
that he'd be in first grade, and in first grade they mostly learned to
read. He'd been reading since he was 4, virtually self-taught. I
said, "You know how to read, right? What would you do all day in
school while the other kids learn to read?" :-) That satisfied him.
You might want to clarify why your son wants to go.
Nancy (my little boy is 17 now, btw, and always unschooled)
patchworkgirl57
Well, the district is SUPPOSED to leave us alone according to TX law,
but I've heard of various districts giving families a hard time...
each child out means they don't get funds.. fortunately we have a
great advocacy group (tx homeschool coalition: http://thsc.org)
that'll back parents who have problems with their district...
to: TONS of unschoolers all over the place! <grin> I'll look around
for a class for him to go to as well as going to get-togethers..
I know he loved homeschool day and would ask often "is tomorrow
homeschool day?" As far as neighborhood kids, there don't seem to be
very many...
Jessica
PS Sandra: you're right, he's *learning* how to read, not teaching
himself! :-) It's a fascinating process for sure...
but I've heard of various districts giving families a hard time...
each child out means they don't get funds.. fortunately we have a
great advocacy group (tx homeschool coalition: http://thsc.org)
that'll back parents who have problems with their district...
> You don't have to worry about being under the radar in TX - even ifI figure he's missing the rethinking education conference that we went
> he goes to school, all you have to do is give them a letter saying
> you're withdrawing him and there isn't any further reporting or
> follow-up.
to: TONS of unschoolers all over the place! <grin> I'll look around
for a class for him to go to as well as going to get-togethers..
I know he loved homeschool day and would ask often "is tomorrow
homeschool day?" As far as neighborhood kids, there don't seem to be
very many...
> Maybe you can find a class of some kind just for him. My youngestCheers,
> daughter went to a nature center class - every weekday for 2 hours
> for three weeks. From then on she would talk about, "My Teacher,"
> with great pride, especially to her siblings and to neighborhood kids.
>
Jessica
PS Sandra: you're right, he's *learning* how to read, not teaching
himself! :-) It's a fascinating process for sure...
Pamela Sorooshian
Hey - even my 16 year old is somewhat sad after the LIve and Learn
Conference, misses that intense contact with other unschooled kids -
and she has unschooled friends here.
She knows better than to think school might be at all like an
unschooling conference, but a younger kid might not be so clear about
that!
-pam
Conference, misses that intense contact with other unschooled kids -
and she has unschooled friends here.
She knows better than to think school might be at all like an
unschooling conference, but a younger kid might not be so clear about
that!
-pam
On Sep 16, 2007, at 7:50 PM, patchworkgirl57 wrote:
> I figure he's missing the rethinking education conference that we went
> to: TONS of unschoolers all over the place! <grin> I'll look around
> for a class for him to go to as well as going to get-togethers..
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jacqueline Parks
On 9/16/07, Nancy Wooton <nancywooton@...> wrote:
I have to agree with this. I have known kids who wanted to go to school
because they served chocolate milk (which their parents never bought) and
because they wanted to ride on a bus. If you find out the reason, there is
a good chance that you will be able to find another way to meet his needs.
My oldest daughter, who is now 19 and living on her own, attended school for
one year, seventh grade. Although she didn't have any particularly horrible
experiences, she regrets it now and thinks both that her time could have
been better spent and that some of the peer interaction had long term
negative consequences. I wish I would have worked harder to find another
option for her. We talk about it though, and we both agree that it did meet
some needs. Our whole family learned what it is like to have someone
attending school which actually makes the other children less likely to want
to try it. By seeing how well she compared to the other students, she
developed a lot of confidence in unschooling and now definitely wants to
unschool her own children. It also was an escape for her during a difficult
time when my ex-husband and I were separating.
My thirteen year old daughter sometimes talks about wanting to go to school
and see what it is like. Then we talk about the realities of what it would
be like, and so far she has always decided on a different path (like taking
horseback riding lessons and starting an internet forum) to meet her needs.
~Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> You might want to clarify why your son wants to go.*****
>
I have to agree with this. I have known kids who wanted to go to school
because they served chocolate milk (which their parents never bought) and
because they wanted to ride on a bus. If you find out the reason, there is
a good chance that you will be able to find another way to meet his needs.
My oldest daughter, who is now 19 and living on her own, attended school for
one year, seventh grade. Although she didn't have any particularly horrible
experiences, she regrets it now and thinks both that her time could have
been better spent and that some of the peer interaction had long term
negative consequences. I wish I would have worked harder to find another
option for her. We talk about it though, and we both agree that it did meet
some needs. Our whole family learned what it is like to have someone
attending school which actually makes the other children less likely to want
to try it. By seeing how well she compared to the other students, she
developed a lot of confidence in unschooling and now definitely wants to
unschool her own children. It also was an escape for her during a difficult
time when my ex-husband and I were separating.
My thirteen year old daughter sometimes talks about wanting to go to school
and see what it is like. Then we talk about the realities of what it would
be like, and so far she has always decided on a different path (like taking
horseback riding lessons and starting an internet forum) to meet her needs.
~Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nikkole_abbas
Hi, all.
I'm resurrecting a "dead" topic here because I was searching for some
tips on helping get my (almost) 5 yo daughter to "want" to stay home.
She turns 5 too late (end Oct) to go to K this year in our Dist, so we
don't have to decide yet, but I want to work on this now and not have
it be an issue.
I have talked to HS moms in our local group and got the "find out why
she wants to go to school" advice. I tried this and she just said "I
don't know." I don't know what she expects to get from school or why
it appeals so much to her.
I am at home (as is her dad) but work full-time at home (he has own PT
to FT business--depending on projects at the time). Because of this we
both have flexibility to make time for her during the day and try to
do so as much as possible (though not always able). She (and her 2 yo
sister) gets much more of our time and attention than most kids who
have to go to daycare, but not as much time with other kids. We do
make an effort to go to the HS playgroup perhaps 2X/month.
She watches PBS semi-regularly, so it may be from the
Arthur/Caillou/Etc. crowd. The shows are all about trying to jazz up
the idea of school to the majority of kids who will attend. I guess
what I might be looking for (besides advice and ideas) are any
books/videos/cartoons that depict characters that are homeschooled as
an alternative for the small amount of TV time she does get.
Another concern of mine is that she is very advanced. She began
reading very naturally and progressively on her own guidance (with our
support and encouragement). I wasn't sure what her "reading level" was
(didn't really care to know), but recently one of the books we checked
out from the library was a "Read on Your Own, Level Three: Grades Two
to Four" book and she read it to us without difficulty.
I have tried the angle of "you like learning, right? You want to keep
learning, right? Well, your teacher will be teaching all of the other
kids the basics, like letters and then reading very basic words and
she (he) won't have time with all of those kids to teach you anything
more than what they are learning (that you already know)." I couldn't
tell whether it had much of an effect on her or not. She still seems
to really want to go to school.
Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!
-Nikkole
Unschooling mom to Mehrezat (almost 5) and Akilah (2)
http://7gens.blogspot.com
--- In [email protected], "Nicole LoBue" <mamalobue@...>
wrote:
I'm resurrecting a "dead" topic here because I was searching for some
tips on helping get my (almost) 5 yo daughter to "want" to stay home.
She turns 5 too late (end Oct) to go to K this year in our Dist, so we
don't have to decide yet, but I want to work on this now and not have
it be an issue.
I have talked to HS moms in our local group and got the "find out why
she wants to go to school" advice. I tried this and she just said "I
don't know." I don't know what she expects to get from school or why
it appeals so much to her.
I am at home (as is her dad) but work full-time at home (he has own PT
to FT business--depending on projects at the time). Because of this we
both have flexibility to make time for her during the day and try to
do so as much as possible (though not always able). She (and her 2 yo
sister) gets much more of our time and attention than most kids who
have to go to daycare, but not as much time with other kids. We do
make an effort to go to the HS playgroup perhaps 2X/month.
She watches PBS semi-regularly, so it may be from the
Arthur/Caillou/Etc. crowd. The shows are all about trying to jazz up
the idea of school to the majority of kids who will attend. I guess
what I might be looking for (besides advice and ideas) are any
books/videos/cartoons that depict characters that are homeschooled as
an alternative for the small amount of TV time she does get.
Another concern of mine is that she is very advanced. She began
reading very naturally and progressively on her own guidance (with our
support and encouragement). I wasn't sure what her "reading level" was
(didn't really care to know), but recently one of the books we checked
out from the library was a "Read on Your Own, Level Three: Grades Two
to Four" book and she read it to us without difficulty.
I have tried the angle of "you like learning, right? You want to keep
learning, right? Well, your teacher will be teaching all of the other
kids the basics, like letters and then reading very basic words and
she (he) won't have time with all of those kids to teach you anything
more than what they are learning (that you already know)." I couldn't
tell whether it had much of an effect on her or not. She still seems
to really want to go to school.
Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!
-Nikkole
Unschooling mom to Mehrezat (almost 5) and Akilah (2)
http://7gens.blogspot.com
--- In [email protected], "Nicole LoBue" <mamalobue@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> I think I've been a member of this group for years but forgot about
> it and haven't posted in a very long time.
>
> I've been unschooling my 8yo daughter since she was two and my 4yo
> since birth. Last night they both decided that they wanted to go to
> school. I'm tempted to let Lauren (8yo) go for a day or a week so
> she could see how it is, but here are my concerns:
>
> She barely reads at a first grade level and her math skills are the
> same. Though she can read and do simple math, she walks around
> telling everyone that she doesn't know how. I'm concerned that one
> day with a school teacher will have CPS at my door. I like to stay
> under the radar.
>
> My other concern is, what if she likes it? I'm vehemently opposed to
> how children are taught in school and the mind control that goes on.
> It would not be okay with me to have her in school.
>
> Thoughts anyone?
>
> Nicole
>
Pamela Sorooshian
Two things ---
Rosie wanted to have a teacher. She wanted to be able to say things
like, "MY teacher says.....". So we signed her up for a week, one hour
per day, for a science class at the local nature center. That was
enough to make her happy.
So - you might find that she wants just a little "school" type of
experience - a teacher, some lessons. Find a recreation department
class or "kids college" - which our local community colleges offer.
play date for another day during the week with someone from the HS
group.
My daughters hardly even considered going to school because they'd
have had to give up their very active social life with their
homeschool friends. So - if you're willing to work a little harder,
you could kind of get her more connected and locked in.
-pam
Rosie wanted to have a teacher. She wanted to be able to say things
like, "MY teacher says.....". So we signed her up for a week, one hour
per day, for a science class at the local nature center. That was
enough to make her happy.
So - you might find that she wants just a little "school" type of
experience - a teacher, some lessons. Find a recreation department
class or "kids college" - which our local community colleges offer.
> We doThat is not much. I'd go every week and go early, leave late. Make a
> make an effort to go to the HS playgroup perhaps 2X/month.
play date for another day during the week with someone from the HS
group.
My daughters hardly even considered going to school because they'd
have had to give up their very active social life with their
homeschool friends. So - if you're willing to work a little harder,
you could kind of get her more connected and locked in.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-She watches PBS semi-regularly, so it may be from the
Arthur/Caillou/Etc. crowd. The shows are all about trying to jazz up
the idea of school to the majority of kids who will attend. I guess
what I might be looking for (besides advice and ideas) are any
books/videos/cartoons that depict characters that are homeschooled as
an alternative for the small amount of TV time she does get. -=-
Why is her TV time limited?
Why limit her to shows about school or about not-school? Look for
movies with quality aspects that depict happy children doing fun things.
http://sandradodd.com/movies
-=-Because of this we
both have flexibility to make time for her during the day and try to
do so as much as possible (though not always able). She (and her 2 yo
sister) gets much more of our time and attention than most kids who
have to go to daycare, but not as much time with other kids. We do
make an effort to go to the HS playgroup perhaps 2X/month. -=-
Maybe you could hire an older kid as a mother's helper to come to
your house and just play with them. Unschooling needs to be rich and
busy and fun, not just spare moments. But with two parents home and
80 hours worked, there are still LOTS of hours in the week when
you're not sleeping. If school sounds more fun than home, home isn't
enough fun.
-=-Another concern of mine is that she is very advanced. -=-
So you're worried that if she goes to school she'll be bored?
-=-I'm resurrecting a "dead" topic here because I was searching for
some tips on helping get my (almost) 5 yo daughter to "want" to stay
home.-=-
It's not a dead topic at all, but she should truly want to stay
home, not "want" (kind of, or as they say) to stay home. One of the
worst things about school is kids not having a choice. It's the
worst thing about homeschooling, too, when the kids are home against
their wishes. Create a home she WANTS to be in. Create a world she
doesn't want to miss.
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Arthur/Caillou/Etc. crowd. The shows are all about trying to jazz up
the idea of school to the majority of kids who will attend. I guess
what I might be looking for (besides advice and ideas) are any
books/videos/cartoons that depict characters that are homeschooled as
an alternative for the small amount of TV time she does get. -=-
Why is her TV time limited?
Why limit her to shows about school or about not-school? Look for
movies with quality aspects that depict happy children doing fun things.
http://sandradodd.com/movies
-=-Because of this we
both have flexibility to make time for her during the day and try to
do so as much as possible (though not always able). She (and her 2 yo
sister) gets much more of our time and attention than most kids who
have to go to daycare, but not as much time with other kids. We do
make an effort to go to the HS playgroup perhaps 2X/month. -=-
Maybe you could hire an older kid as a mother's helper to come to
your house and just play with them. Unschooling needs to be rich and
busy and fun, not just spare moments. But with two parents home and
80 hours worked, there are still LOTS of hours in the week when
you're not sleeping. If school sounds more fun than home, home isn't
enough fun.
-=-Another concern of mine is that she is very advanced. -=-
So you're worried that if she goes to school she'll be bored?
-=-I'm resurrecting a "dead" topic here because I was searching for
some tips on helping get my (almost) 5 yo daughter to "want" to stay
home.-=-
It's not a dead topic at all, but she should truly want to stay
home, not "want" (kind of, or as they say) to stay home. One of the
worst things about school is kids not having a choice. It's the
worst thing about homeschooling, too, when the kids are home against
their wishes. Create a home she WANTS to be in. Create a world she
doesn't want to miss.
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Rosie wanted to have a teacher. She wanted to be able to say things
like, "MY teacher says.....". So we signed her up for a week, one hour
per day, for a science class at the local nature center. That was
enough to make her happy.-=-
Holly took a dance/theater class and she liked the teacher and one
summer did a "camp" (all day there every day and had to take her
lunch, which thrilled her).
Kirby wanted a lunchbox and some school supplies. Easy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
like, "MY teacher says.....". So we signed her up for a week, one hour
per day, for a science class at the local nature center. That was
enough to make her happy.-=-
Holly took a dance/theater class and she liked the teacher and one
summer did a "camp" (all day there every day and had to take her
lunch, which thrilled her).
Kirby wanted a lunchbox and some school supplies. Easy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:35 PM, nikkole_abbas wrote:
make home more fun, the more attractive school will be and the more
intrigued she'll be. Even if you think you're hiding it, you really
can't.
I would use her interest as an indication that there are things she
wants to explore that are missing from home. Yes, she's making it
hard because she doesn't know! But that doesn't mean there's nothing
you can do.
What if she announced she wanted to go to Paris? Probably you
wouldn't hop on a plane to Paris, but would you panic and find ways
to ignore Paris and make the US seem more fun? Or might you explore
French food and turn on the French language on movies?
Maybe ask her to visualize what a day at school would be like. Have
her walk you through her day and pay attention to what it is she's
thinking would be fun. Don't down play it. If there's any negative
vibes coming from you, any fear, she's likely to clam up and not want
to play. Use it as a stream of information to help you help her find
new things to explore. (Obviously you've got it easier since she's
too young to go. This can all be pure information, not leading to
"Can I go tomorrow?" You can honestly say "The school won't let her,"
but that you'd like to find ways for her to do the same fun things.)
Be respectful if she says she doesn't know why something sounds fun.
seems to her) this isn't enough. Classes, brownies, creating your own
unschoolers get together, inviting kids over.
Don't try to sell her on homeschooling. Live it. Let *her* decide she
likes it (or not.)
locked in a room is freedom. The more restrictions at home, then
school isn't as big of a contrast. Why is her TV time being limited?
Do you limit her to a book a day? Do you limit her to 1 cookie per day?
kids or whatever she thinks she'll find in school.
My daughter went to school for 2 months of 2nd grade. At first
everything was "Great!" After a while the newness of the good parts
wore off and the stuff she was putting up with to get the new stuff
started feeling more and more annoying until she felt she'd sucked
the experience dry and was done. The good parts were no longer worth
the irritation of the bad parts. Same with just about anything new
people want to try. There's always good parts and bad parts. If
someone finds the good parts are worth the bad parts, they put up
with them. If not, it's hugely empowering to know you can drop
something at any time.
I think you're fearing school too much. You're fearing that it's more
fun than you are and that if you let her go she'll realize that and
not want to come home. (If you weren't fearing that, then it wouldn't
frighten you that she wanted to go. That said, it is a very common
fear! Don't think you're alone in that.)
I think one of the strengths that we unschooling parents have is that
we know school and unschooling. We've experienced both. It increases
our credibility when we discuss the benefits of unschooling :-) But a
lot of our kids will only know unschooling. My daughter Kat knows
from experience why she wouldn't want to attend school. ;-)
I'm not advocating putting kids in school, but I think the less we
fear what they want to try, the better.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I was searching for someI think the more you focus on school, even internally as a reason to
> tips on helping get my (almost) 5 yo daughter to "want" to stay home.
make home more fun, the more attractive school will be and the more
intrigued she'll be. Even if you think you're hiding it, you really
can't.
I would use her interest as an indication that there are things she
wants to explore that are missing from home. Yes, she's making it
hard because she doesn't know! But that doesn't mean there's nothing
you can do.
What if she announced she wanted to go to Paris? Probably you
wouldn't hop on a plane to Paris, but would you panic and find ways
to ignore Paris and make the US seem more fun? Or might you explore
French food and turn on the French language on movies?
Maybe ask her to visualize what a day at school would be like. Have
her walk you through her day and pay attention to what it is she's
thinking would be fun. Don't down play it. If there's any negative
vibes coming from you, any fear, she's likely to clam up and not want
to play. Use it as a stream of information to help you help her find
new things to explore. (Obviously you've got it easier since she's
too young to go. This can all be pure information, not leading to
"Can I go tomorrow?" You can honestly say "The school won't let her,"
but that you'd like to find ways for her to do the same fun things.)
Be respectful if she says she doesn't know why something sounds fun.
> We doIf she sees kids on TV playing together at school every day (or so it
> make an effort to go to the HS playgroup perhaps 2X/month.
>
seems to her) this isn't enough. Classes, brownies, creating your own
unschoolers get together, inviting kids over.
> I guessSounds like propaganda to me.
> what I might be looking for (besides advice and ideas) are any
> books/videos/cartoons that depict characters that are homeschooled as
>
Don't try to sell her on homeschooling. Live it. Let *her* decide she
likes it (or not.)
> an alternative for the small amount of TV time she does get.One of the great things about being out in the world rather than
>
locked in a room is freedom. The more restrictions at home, then
school isn't as big of a contrast. Why is her TV time being limited?
Do you limit her to a book a day? Do you limit her to 1 cookie per day?
> I couldn'tThat limitation might be worth it to her to get access to lots of
> tell whether it had much of an effect on her or not. She still seems
> to really want to go to school.
>
kids or whatever she thinks she'll find in school.
My daughter went to school for 2 months of 2nd grade. At first
everything was "Great!" After a while the newness of the good parts
wore off and the stuff she was putting up with to get the new stuff
started feeling more and more annoying until she felt she'd sucked
the experience dry and was done. The good parts were no longer worth
the irritation of the bad parts. Same with just about anything new
people want to try. There's always good parts and bad parts. If
someone finds the good parts are worth the bad parts, they put up
with them. If not, it's hugely empowering to know you can drop
something at any time.
I think you're fearing school too much. You're fearing that it's more
fun than you are and that if you let her go she'll realize that and
not want to come home. (If you weren't fearing that, then it wouldn't
frighten you that she wanted to go. That said, it is a very common
fear! Don't think you're alone in that.)
I think one of the strengths that we unschooling parents have is that
we know school and unschooling. We've experienced both. It increases
our credibility when we discuss the benefits of unschooling :-) But a
lot of our kids will only know unschooling. My daughter Kat knows
from experience why she wouldn't want to attend school. ;-)
I'm not advocating putting kids in school, but I think the less we
fear what they want to try, the better.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think you're fearing school too much. You're fearing that it's more
fun than you are and that if you let her go she'll realize that and
not want to come home. (If you weren't fearing that, then it wouldn't
frighten you that she wanted to go. That said, it is a very common
fear! Don't think you're alone in that.)-=-
I think if a mother has any fear that school is more fun than home,
home is not nearly fun enough.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fun than you are and that if you let her go she'll realize that and
not want to come home. (If you weren't fearing that, then it wouldn't
frighten you that she wanted to go. That said, it is a very common
fear! Don't think you're alone in that.)-=-
I think if a mother has any fear that school is more fun than home,
home is not nearly fun enough.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carnationsgalore
> I have talked to HS moms in our local group and got the "find outwhy
> she wants to go to school" advice. I tried this and she just said "ITell her that different families live different ways. Some families
> don't know." I don't know what she expects to get from school or why
> it appeals so much to her.
have only one parent. Some families have lots of kids. Some
families have a grandparent living with them. Some families send
their kids to private or public schools. Some families homeschool.
Are you active in your homeschool group, so that your daughter has
time to play with other kids? If she is busy with people and stuff
to do, she probably won't even miss that she isn't in school.
Maybe she wants the excitement of getting new school stuff. Let her
pick out a school bookbag or box. We used file boxes when my kids
were younger that they decorated with stickers. Buy some school
supplies like pencils, colored pencils, crayons, markers, and glue.
You can also buy some fun coloring books, sketch pad, activity books
(word finds, dot to dot, mazes, painting books), construction paper,
and a lined notebook. You could include some playing cards, small
puzzles and games. She can keep all her stuff in her school box that
she can carry around with her. My kids loved their activity boxes
and used them for several years.
Beth M.
Nancy Wooton
On Sep 3, 2008, at 6:23 AM, carnationsgalore wrote:
homeschooled, surprising the heck out of me; he said, in a sad voice,
"Mommy, I think I'm smart enough to go to school..." He thought he
was being homeschooled because there was something wrong with him, or
he was dumb. He might have gotten that idea from one of his Little
League teammates, who often quizzed him on stuff *they* didn't know.
I asked him what he thought he would learn in school as a first
grader. He didn't know what they really did, so I told him mostly
they learned to read. As he'd been reading for two years by then, I
followed by asking him what he thought he would do all day while the
other kids learned to read. That satisfied him <g>
He has since chosen to go to school -- he started college last week.
It's a bit of a shock when your first day at school is a college
Astronomy class and you've never had any formal math, but he's doing
fine so far. (The other class is Drawing; he dropped the 5 unit
Japanese class for now.)
It's interesting how some things are taken for granted in the school
universe. His Astronomy teacher's syllabus included an explanation of
the grading system, including his policy that the lowest scoring quiz
would be dropped. Alex, completely unfamiliar with all of it, thought
this meant that the person who scored the lowest would be kicked out
of the class (and also feared that would be him!). His sister (also
attending this semester) and I straightened him out ;-)
Nancy
>> I have talked to HS moms in our local group and got the "find outWhen my ds was about six, he expressed his concern about being
> why
>> she wants to go to school" advice. I tried this and she just said "I
>> don't know." I don't know what she expects to get from school or why
>> it appeals so much to her.
>
> Tell her that different families live different ways. Some families
> have only one parent. Some families have lots of kids. Some
> families have a grandparent living with them. Some families send
> their kids to private or public schools. Some families homeschool.
homeschooled, surprising the heck out of me; he said, in a sad voice,
"Mommy, I think I'm smart enough to go to school..." He thought he
was being homeschooled because there was something wrong with him, or
he was dumb. He might have gotten that idea from one of his Little
League teammates, who often quizzed him on stuff *they* didn't know.
I asked him what he thought he would learn in school as a first
grader. He didn't know what they really did, so I told him mostly
they learned to read. As he'd been reading for two years by then, I
followed by asking him what he thought he would do all day while the
other kids learned to read. That satisfied him <g>
He has since chosen to go to school -- he started college last week.
It's a bit of a shock when your first day at school is a college
Astronomy class and you've never had any formal math, but he's doing
fine so far. (The other class is Drawing; he dropped the 5 unit
Japanese class for now.)
It's interesting how some things are taken for granted in the school
universe. His Astronomy teacher's syllabus included an explanation of
the grading system, including his policy that the lowest scoring quiz
would be dropped. Alex, completely unfamiliar with all of it, thought
this meant that the person who scored the lowest would be kicked out
of the class (and also feared that would be him!). His sister (also
attending this semester) and I straightened him out ;-)
Nancy
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
My son turned six this summer and he loves to be around friends. All the time.
So we do everything we can to get together with other kids as much as possible .
We have one homeschool group that does activities (at Nature Center, State Park classes and activities, Children's Theater, etc) once a week.
We are trying to join a co-op once a week that has Chess, Lego and Theater classes.
We just started Tae-kwon Do and theatre classes start next week.
It seems like a busy schedule but he wanted those and he has a need to be around other kids.
I could do some of those activities without the group but for him it is important to be with other.
We still do plenty without the groups but I can see he enjoys so much being with his friends.
This is a kid that was making friends in the park at 2 years old.
I know that if I don't feel his need to be around other kids he will want to go to school.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
So we do everything we can to get together with other kids as much as possible .
We have one homeschool group that does activities (at Nature Center, State Park classes and activities, Children's Theater, etc) once a week.
We are trying to join a co-op once a week that has Chess, Lego and Theater classes.
We just started Tae-kwon Do and theatre classes start next week.
It seems like a busy schedule but he wanted those and he has a need to be around other kids.
I could do some of those activities without the group but for him it is important to be with other.
We still do plenty without the groups but I can see he enjoys so much being with his friends.
This is a kid that was making friends in the park at 2 years old.
I know that if I don't feel his need to be around other kids he will want to go to school.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-When my ds was about six, he expressed his concern about being
homeschooled, surprising the heck out of me; he said, in a sad voice,
"Mommy, I think I'm smart enough to go to school..." He thought he
was being homeschooled because there was something wrong with him, or
he was dumb.-=-
Marty asked me quietly one day if he wasn't in school because he
wasn't smart.
He got the idea from a mean neighbor boy who wasn't himself nearly as
bright as Marty, but I didn't want to disturb the happy balance at
home any more than Nick already had, so rather than tell Marty he was
smarter than Nick (my first thought) I talked about school a little
bit, and that no, I was SURE if Marty went to school he could do
their stuff very easily, and if he wanted to go to school he could
(we used to make that offer every year to all the kids, when they
were little), but I'd rather let him do what he wanted to do instead
of sit all day with kids like Nick. Something like that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
homeschooled, surprising the heck out of me; he said, in a sad voice,
"Mommy, I think I'm smart enough to go to school..." He thought he
was being homeschooled because there was something wrong with him, or
he was dumb.-=-
Marty asked me quietly one day if he wasn't in school because he
wasn't smart.
He got the idea from a mean neighbor boy who wasn't himself nearly as
bright as Marty, but I didn't want to disturb the happy balance at
home any more than Nick already had, so rather than tell Marty he was
smarter than Nick (my first thought) I talked about school a little
bit, and that no, I was SURE if Marty went to school he could do
their stuff very easily, and if he wanted to go to school he could
(we used to make that offer every year to all the kids, when they
were little), but I'd rather let him do what he wanted to do instead
of sit all day with kids like Nick. Something like that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cathyandgarth
I won't rehash all the great advice you've already received, but
thought I'd throw out what occured with my DD.
When she was about a year out from Kindergarten she started talking
about going to school, pretty intensly. I posted to the AU list for
the same reasons you posted here, I thought getting some good advice
and clearing my own issues up would be a good move on my part. It
was good, but my conversations with my DD still didn't reveal her
motivation to go to school.
Then, we were driving somewhere and something came up about a
homeschooled friend of my son's who had been hit by a golf cart as
he was crossing the street in front of a local lodge. He had to get
stitches and it freaked him and his mom out, but otherwise it turned
out fine. She suddenly blurted out: "WE WILL NEVER KNOW ABOUT THOSE
THINGS BECAUSE WE DON'T GO TO SCHOOL!!!" And then I got it, she was
worried that by not going to school she was going to miss out on
some vitally important knowledge that would keep her from getting
hit by a golf cart (it sounds trivial but in her mind it was a major
big deal). So we talked about what you learn in school and what you
learn from experience, and how she could learn about the golf cart
from our friend and that she didn't have to go to school to learn
that and in fact wouldn't learn that if she went to school. She was
totally fine with that and school has never come up again, except to
tell me how glad she is that she doesn't have to go to school so she
can do art all day.
For the social piece I try to really respond to every interest my
kids have, as possible in our small town. So they are in soccer,
dance, karate, art classes, climbing -- they get to spend lots of
time with other kids, homeschooled and schooled, in those
situations. And we have lots of sleepovers and playdates, usually I
host, but not always. For my 3, 2 times a month would not be enough
social for them, but every child is different.
Cathy
thought I'd throw out what occured with my DD.
When she was about a year out from Kindergarten she started talking
about going to school, pretty intensly. I posted to the AU list for
the same reasons you posted here, I thought getting some good advice
and clearing my own issues up would be a good move on my part. It
was good, but my conversations with my DD still didn't reveal her
motivation to go to school.
Then, we were driving somewhere and something came up about a
homeschooled friend of my son's who had been hit by a golf cart as
he was crossing the street in front of a local lodge. He had to get
stitches and it freaked him and his mom out, but otherwise it turned
out fine. She suddenly blurted out: "WE WILL NEVER KNOW ABOUT THOSE
THINGS BECAUSE WE DON'T GO TO SCHOOL!!!" And then I got it, she was
worried that by not going to school she was going to miss out on
some vitally important knowledge that would keep her from getting
hit by a golf cart (it sounds trivial but in her mind it was a major
big deal). So we talked about what you learn in school and what you
learn from experience, and how she could learn about the golf cart
from our friend and that she didn't have to go to school to learn
that and in fact wouldn't learn that if she went to school. She was
totally fine with that and school has never come up again, except to
tell me how glad she is that she doesn't have to go to school so she
can do art all day.
For the social piece I try to really respond to every interest my
kids have, as possible in our small town. So they are in soccer,
dance, karate, art classes, climbing -- they get to spend lots of
time with other kids, homeschooled and schooled, in those
situations. And we have lots of sleepovers and playdates, usually I
host, but not always. For my 3, 2 times a month would not be enough
social for them, but every child is different.
Cathy
diana jenner
When Hannah caught the Kindy Bug, we set up a corner of the dining room as
her "classroom" -- we got a desk and I decorated with posters from the
teacher's store. I had a fishtank on the nearby bookshelf (she picked the
books she wanted for "school"). Mostly we played. Just like they played
grocery store or bank or hospital (hayden gave birth until he was about 4
and figgered out it was anatomically impossible :::vbg:::), we played
school. We even took a trip on the city bus, while she wore her pack-pack,
and went to the library.
By denying it's existence and appeal, there's the risk of creating forbidden
fruit where none should be!
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
her "classroom" -- we got a desk and I decorated with posters from the
teacher's store. I had a fishtank on the nearby bookshelf (she picked the
books she wanted for "school"). Mostly we played. Just like they played
grocery store or bank or hospital (hayden gave birth until he was about 4
and figgered out it was anatomically impossible :::vbg:::), we played
school. We even took a trip on the city bus, while she wore her pack-pack,
and went to the library.
By denying it's existence and appeal, there's the risk of creating forbidden
fruit where none should be!
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
nikkole_abbas
Thanks, EVERYONE for the great suggestions and reassurances! No one in
my local HS group seemed to have experienced their kids' desire to go
to school, so glad to know I'm not alone. It was great to get all of
these responses in just a single day!
Joyce wrote:
<<What if she announced she wanted to go to Paris? Probably you
wouldn't hop on a plane to Paris, but would you panic and find ways
to ignore Paris and make the US seem more fun? Or might you explore
French food and turn on the French language on movies?>>
Fantastic comparison! I hadn't thought of it that way. I will look at
ways to go headlong into this, rather than just trying to avoid it.
I'll probably start this process with your suggestion:
<<Maybe ask her to visualize what a day at school would be like. Have
her walk you through her day and pay attention to what it is she's
thinking would be fun. Don't down play it. If there's any negative
vibes coming from you, any fear, she's likely to clam up and not want
to play. Use it as a stream of information to help you help her find
new things to explore.>>
This sounds like a great way to get more information from her since
she doesn't seem to know why she wants to go to school. Then I can
find ways to meet that unmet need, whatever it may be. I also really
liked Diana's suggestion:
<<we set up a corner of the dining room as
her "classroom" -- we got a desk and I decorated with posters>>
Both Sandra and Joyce asked about why we limit TV time. I guess we
don't want her to just 'veg out' in front of the TV, and that often
seems to be how she watches it. Blank look, doesn't seem to be getting
much out of it. We do watch movies together fairly regularly on the
"big screen" (projector on the wall) and she enjoys that and doesn't
get that same look, and we talk about them as we are getting ready for
bed afterward.
Instead, when the TV is on less, she engages more, "loses herself" in
activity for long periods of time, either reading to herself or
imaginative play with her stuffed animals, coloring, writing letters
to her friends or grandma, etc. This is something we have noticed for
her. Her 2yo sister, on the other hand, will watch for a few minutes
and walk away while the TV is still on to do something else. We won't
have to "limit" her time, it seems (at least at this point).
Sandra wrote:
<<Why limit her to shows about school or about not-school?>>
The shows are not limited to shows about school or not-school, but we
prefer to use the TV as an enrichment tool rather than a way to tune
out. We are also adamantly opposed to much of consumer culture in the
US and do NOT want our daughters exposed to all of the blatant and
irresponsible marketing to children. (Fortunately, the 4yo does mute
out commercials and understands what advertisers are trying to do.)
Because of these important values to us, we choose PBS. Then in many
of these shows they *happen* to mention school, rather than shows
*about* school.
In response to my request: > I guess
<<Sounds like propaganda to me.>>
Maybe so. I guess I hadn't thought of it that way. I had considered
the PBS shows propaganda and just wanted a way to counter that. I
hadn't considered shows portraying HS as an option propaganda, and not
sure I meant the type of show that could be considered so (at least I
think not...**sheepish grin**). I guess it's just not even seen
anywhere in the media. I wouldn't mind if Caillou was excited to go to
school (as in an episode where he went to his friend's school for a
day) if he also had a HS friend he visited as well.
Sandra wrote:
<<So you're worried that if she goes to school she'll be bored?>>
Yes, I am, or perhaps that she won't be challenged or will not have as
much opportunity to learn.
Joyce wrote:
<<You're fearing that it's more
fun than you are and that if you let her go she'll realize that and
not want to come home. (If you weren't fearing that, then it wouldn't
frighten you that she wanted to go. That said, it is a very common
fear! Don't think you're alone in that.)>>
Interestingly, despite the apparent contradiction, my immediate
response to this was also Yes. I do think I am afraid she'll want to
stay in school (for whatever she enjoys/misses) and end up missing out
on the learning (about who she is, what she enjoys, who she wants to
become as much as the more "academic" or "traditional" learning she
could do while her peers are learning what she already knows--i.e.
reading, writing and basic math).
Our local HS playgroup seems about to disband due to a lack of ability
for any family to be able to commit to being their *every* week, in
case of a new family arriving, or whatever. Given the discussion here,
I'm thinking of committing our family to this despite the fact that I
work 40 hr/wk. I can flex that time and work those few hrs another
time to make this a priority for my girls.
Thanks again for all of your ideas!
-Nikkole
Unschooling mom to Mehrezat (almost 5) and Akilah (2)
http://7gens.blogspot.com
my local HS group seemed to have experienced their kids' desire to go
to school, so glad to know I'm not alone. It was great to get all of
these responses in just a single day!
Joyce wrote:
<<What if she announced she wanted to go to Paris? Probably you
wouldn't hop on a plane to Paris, but would you panic and find ways
to ignore Paris and make the US seem more fun? Or might you explore
French food and turn on the French language on movies?>>
Fantastic comparison! I hadn't thought of it that way. I will look at
ways to go headlong into this, rather than just trying to avoid it.
I'll probably start this process with your suggestion:
<<Maybe ask her to visualize what a day at school would be like. Have
her walk you through her day and pay attention to what it is she's
thinking would be fun. Don't down play it. If there's any negative
vibes coming from you, any fear, she's likely to clam up and not want
to play. Use it as a stream of information to help you help her find
new things to explore.>>
This sounds like a great way to get more information from her since
she doesn't seem to know why she wants to go to school. Then I can
find ways to meet that unmet need, whatever it may be. I also really
liked Diana's suggestion:
<<we set up a corner of the dining room as
her "classroom" -- we got a desk and I decorated with posters>>
Both Sandra and Joyce asked about why we limit TV time. I guess we
don't want her to just 'veg out' in front of the TV, and that often
seems to be how she watches it. Blank look, doesn't seem to be getting
much out of it. We do watch movies together fairly regularly on the
"big screen" (projector on the wall) and she enjoys that and doesn't
get that same look, and we talk about them as we are getting ready for
bed afterward.
Instead, when the TV is on less, she engages more, "loses herself" in
activity for long periods of time, either reading to herself or
imaginative play with her stuffed animals, coloring, writing letters
to her friends or grandma, etc. This is something we have noticed for
her. Her 2yo sister, on the other hand, will watch for a few minutes
and walk away while the TV is still on to do something else. We won't
have to "limit" her time, it seems (at least at this point).
Sandra wrote:
<<Why limit her to shows about school or about not-school?>>
The shows are not limited to shows about school or not-school, but we
prefer to use the TV as an enrichment tool rather than a way to tune
out. We are also adamantly opposed to much of consumer culture in the
US and do NOT want our daughters exposed to all of the blatant and
irresponsible marketing to children. (Fortunately, the 4yo does mute
out commercials and understands what advertisers are trying to do.)
Because of these important values to us, we choose PBS. Then in many
of these shows they *happen* to mention school, rather than shows
*about* school.
In response to my request: > I guess
> what I might be looking for (besides advice and ideas) are anyJoyce wrote:
> books/videos/cartoons that depict characters that are homeschooled as
>
<<Sounds like propaganda to me.>>
Maybe so. I guess I hadn't thought of it that way. I had considered
the PBS shows propaganda and just wanted a way to counter that. I
hadn't considered shows portraying HS as an option propaganda, and not
sure I meant the type of show that could be considered so (at least I
think not...**sheepish grin**). I guess it's just not even seen
anywhere in the media. I wouldn't mind if Caillou was excited to go to
school (as in an episode where he went to his friend's school for a
day) if he also had a HS friend he visited as well.
Sandra wrote:
<<So you're worried that if she goes to school she'll be bored?>>
Yes, I am, or perhaps that she won't be challenged or will not have as
much opportunity to learn.
Joyce wrote:
<<You're fearing that it's more
fun than you are and that if you let her go she'll realize that and
not want to come home. (If you weren't fearing that, then it wouldn't
frighten you that she wanted to go. That said, it is a very common
fear! Don't think you're alone in that.)>>
Interestingly, despite the apparent contradiction, my immediate
response to this was also Yes. I do think I am afraid she'll want to
stay in school (for whatever she enjoys/misses) and end up missing out
on the learning (about who she is, what she enjoys, who she wants to
become as much as the more "academic" or "traditional" learning she
could do while her peers are learning what she already knows--i.e.
reading, writing and basic math).
Our local HS playgroup seems about to disband due to a lack of ability
for any family to be able to commit to being their *every* week, in
case of a new family arriving, or whatever. Given the discussion here,
I'm thinking of committing our family to this despite the fact that I
work 40 hr/wk. I can flex that time and work those few hrs another
time to make this a priority for my girls.
Thanks again for all of your ideas!
-Nikkole
Unschooling mom to Mehrezat (almost 5) and Akilah (2)
http://7gens.blogspot.com
graberamy
Lydia is 11 and had often asked about school. She's a really social
girl and I kept her very busy with our local homeschool group (4-H, girl
scouts, art club, parties, play dates, field trips, park days, etc.).
She was still curious so we would visit friends at school and went on a
tour of the school. She always decided not to go, until this year.
Around here many homeschoolers start going to school about this age.
Her friends that haven't gone the school route are a little more
introverted than she is and well, Lydia wants to be around kids every
day.
I also think that Lydia was worried how she would match up and I really
think she needed to find out on her own just how normal or abnormal (
[:O] ) she/we are. So, this year she has decided to give school a try.
About a month before school started she was really pushing me, her dad
and her brother away. It was hard on everyone.
The night of her orientation (meet the teacher night, 2 days before
school started) we were walking up to the school. This attitude
overtook her and I could tell she wanted to separate herself from me. I
leaned over and said (if you knew me, I'm pretty sarcastic and we play-
tease fairly often in our home) "hey! Look around at all the rest of
these dorky parents...I'm not THAT bad!!" She looked around, smiled and
her attitude change for the better. We went through orientation
together and it was good.
Well, we're almost 2 weeks into school. She is really enjoying meeting
all the kids and is making a lot of friends. But, for the last three
nights she's had 2-3 hours of homework and it is mindless, worthless,
rote memorization type stuff (to be honest, this school is just proving
to her what I've said all along!). She's exhausted from it. It is
totally interfering with all the things she does enjoy doing.
As we were laying in her bed tonight she said "can I skip school
tomorrow" and I told her it was her choice. She says she really doesn't
like a lot of the stuff at school (except the friends part). She then
asked me what I would do. In Iowa we do have an option of dual
enrollment so she could take some classes and do some activities. I
just told her the options and told her it's her decision.
I suggested she keep going until she really knows what she wants. I
told her not to give up on meeting homeschool friends, and I told her
that most of her friendships will come from things she has in common
with people.
doing. And, of course there is. And if she gives home another try,
I'll try even harder to meet her needs.
But I can say that I have NO regrets in giving her the freedom to chose
her own path. If anything, it has made our relationship stronger. She
has found out that she's not behind, she's great at making friends, many
kids wish they didn't have to go to school, that we're not abnormal and
that she'll be able to make an informed decision!
You may dislike the thought of your child going to school but really it
will be a completely different experience for her since it's not
compulsory! I think at such a young age (pre-K) you'll be able to meet
her needs at home. But you've got to put in the work. Maybe you're not
as social as she is, and if that's the case step out of your comfort
zone.
amy g
iowa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
girl and I kept her very busy with our local homeschool group (4-H, girl
scouts, art club, parties, play dates, field trips, park days, etc.).
She was still curious so we would visit friends at school and went on a
tour of the school. She always decided not to go, until this year.
Around here many homeschoolers start going to school about this age.
Her friends that haven't gone the school route are a little more
introverted than she is and well, Lydia wants to be around kids every
day.
I also think that Lydia was worried how she would match up and I really
think she needed to find out on her own just how normal or abnormal (
[:O] ) she/we are. So, this year she has decided to give school a try.
About a month before school started she was really pushing me, her dad
and her brother away. It was hard on everyone.
The night of her orientation (meet the teacher night, 2 days before
school started) we were walking up to the school. This attitude
overtook her and I could tell she wanted to separate herself from me. I
leaned over and said (if you knew me, I'm pretty sarcastic and we play-
tease fairly often in our home) "hey! Look around at all the rest of
these dorky parents...I'm not THAT bad!!" She looked around, smiled and
her attitude change for the better. We went through orientation
together and it was good.
Well, we're almost 2 weeks into school. She is really enjoying meeting
all the kids and is making a lot of friends. But, for the last three
nights she's had 2-3 hours of homework and it is mindless, worthless,
rote memorization type stuff (to be honest, this school is just proving
to her what I've said all along!). She's exhausted from it. It is
totally interfering with all the things she does enjoy doing.
As we were laying in her bed tonight she said "can I skip school
tomorrow" and I told her it was her choice. She says she really doesn't
like a lot of the stuff at school (except the friends part). She then
asked me what I would do. In Iowa we do have an option of dual
enrollment so she could take some classes and do some activities. I
just told her the options and told her it's her decision.
I suggested she keep going until she really knows what she wants. I
told her not to give up on meeting homeschool friends, and I told her
that most of her friendships will come from things she has in common
with people.
> I think if a mother has any fear that school is more fun than home,Man this quote hits home. I've wondered if there is more I could be
> home is not nearly fun enough.>>>>>>>>>
doing. And, of course there is. And if she gives home another try,
I'll try even harder to meet her needs.
But I can say that I have NO regrets in giving her the freedom to chose
her own path. If anything, it has made our relationship stronger. She
has found out that she's not behind, she's great at making friends, many
kids wish they didn't have to go to school, that we're not abnormal and
that she'll be able to make an informed decision!
You may dislike the thought of your child going to school but really it
will be a completely different experience for her since it's not
compulsory! I think at such a young age (pre-K) you'll be able to meet
her needs at home. But you've got to put in the work. Maybe you're not
as social as she is, and if that's the case step out of your comfort
zone.
amy g
iowa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Instead, when the TV is on less, she engages more, "loses herself" in
activity for long periods of time, either reading to herself or
imaginative play with her stuffed animals, coloring, writing letters
to her friends or grandma, etc. -=-
But when she loses herself in a story or music on TV, you call it
vegging out.
Please consider some of the things here:
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
activity for long periods of time, either reading to herself or
imaginative play with her stuffed animals, coloring, writing letters
to her friends or grandma, etc. -=-
But when she loses herself in a story or music on TV, you call it
vegging out.
Please consider some of the things here:
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 4, 2008, at 1:21 AM, nikkole_abbas wrote:
what you looked like when you read? You're probably showing the most
engagement when you're reading aloud to the children. So you're
apparent lack of engagement based on your expression when you read a
mainstream novel would justify him limiting you to children's books?
People who are stressed or bored veg out. People who are happy and
whole don't need to.
If she's choosing TV it's because she wants to watch TV. But she may
be choosing TV because it's the least boring thing available. Just
because the pretend play looks more engaging, doesn't mean that it
is. If you weren't stressed or tired, would *you* choose something
dull on TV over a good book? You feel like a good mom when you make
her do what *looks* engaging.
That said, it could be she's not playing when she chooses TV because
she prefers to have someone to play with. It could be the TV feels
like friends and people interacting (to a limited extent) with her.
By cutting off the "people" you don't make the need for people go
away but you can make it look *to you* like it's gone away and make
yourself feel better.
Unschooled kids shouldn't be watching TV alone. That doesn't mean we
need to park ourselves next to them but we should watch enough
episodes so we can have intelligent conversations, watch them
watching so we can get an idea of what it is they love about the
shows. We should be nearby to answer questions and talk about it.
less engaged when watching alone. It's that there aren't people to
watch it with.
If you watch a TV show by yourself, especially one that no one else
in the house particularly likes, do you behave exactly the same while
you watch it and afterwards as you do with a movie the whole family
enjoyed together?
of how you spend your time, then making decisions on what you can and
can't do based on his observations? Wouldn't if feel yucky for him to
be watching and controlling you like that?
We should absolutely be observant of our kids to be aware of what's
going on in their lives and to help them get more of what they're
enjoying and expand their worlds. But it's better for unschooling to
add to their world rather than subtract from it. If a child is
watching a lot of TV and doesn't seem happy, rather than taking
control of the TV, we need to add more to their lives so they have
more options. Rather than pulling them away from something, draw them
away with something even better. And if they do choose TV it's
because they really want to watch something.
I don't think my daughter deliberately sought out TV shows until she
was 6 or 7. Before that she would watch TV with someone.
One problem was, later during her prepuberty years when she watched a
lot of TV, is that she felt disempowered by the programmers. It felt
like she needed to watch what was on in case a new episode happened
to show up. What helped that was TiVo. She could set it to record her
favorites and watch them whenever. It helped her be in control and
the amount of time she watched TV went down.
hasn't already, and depending on how much she likes TV, if you limit
her to say an hour a day, she'll make sure she gets that hour
everyday even if she doesn't love what she's watching. She'll try to
sneak in more until you notice just because she needs to grab it when
it's available because it's rare.
It's human nature. Adults act the same way. If something's limited
that they want, people will grab as much as they can when it's
available.
Pam wrote a good article on the economics of limiting TV:
http://SandraDodd.com/t/economics
Joyce
> I guess weWhat if your husband judged what you could and couldn't read based on
> don't want her to just 'veg out' in front of the TV, and that often
> seems to be how she watches it. Blank look, doesn't seem to be getting
> much out of it.
what you looked like when you read? You're probably showing the most
engagement when you're reading aloud to the children. So you're
apparent lack of engagement based on your expression when you read a
mainstream novel would justify him limiting you to children's books?
People who are stressed or bored veg out. People who are happy and
whole don't need to.
If she's choosing TV it's because she wants to watch TV. But she may
be choosing TV because it's the least boring thing available. Just
because the pretend play looks more engaging, doesn't mean that it
is. If you weren't stressed or tired, would *you* choose something
dull on TV over a good book? You feel like a good mom when you make
her do what *looks* engaging.
That said, it could be she's not playing when she chooses TV because
she prefers to have someone to play with. It could be the TV feels
like friends and people interacting (to a limited extent) with her.
By cutting off the "people" you don't make the need for people go
away but you can make it look *to you* like it's gone away and make
yourself feel better.
Unschooled kids shouldn't be watching TV alone. That doesn't mean we
need to park ourselves next to them but we should watch enough
episodes so we can have intelligent conversations, watch them
watching so we can get an idea of what it is they love about the
shows. We should be nearby to answer questions and talk about it.
> We do watch movies together fairly regularly on theI think the biggest factor missing is the people. It's not that she's
> "big screen" (projector on the wall) and she enjoys that and doesn't
> get that same look, and we talk about them as we are getting ready for
> bed afterward
less engaged when watching alone. It's that there aren't people to
watch it with.
If you watch a TV show by yourself, especially one that no one else
in the house particularly likes, do you behave exactly the same while
you watch it and afterwards as you do with a movie the whole family
enjoyed together?
> Instead, when the TV is on less, she engages more, "loses herself" inDo you want your husband watching what you do and judging the quality
> activity for long periods of time, either reading to herself or
> imaginative play with her stuffed animals, coloring, writing letters
> to her friends or grandma, etc. This is something we have noticed for
> her.
>
of how you spend your time, then making decisions on what you can and
can't do based on his observations? Wouldn't if feel yucky for him to
be watching and controlling you like that?
We should absolutely be observant of our kids to be aware of what's
going on in their lives and to help them get more of what they're
enjoying and expand their worlds. But it's better for unschooling to
add to their world rather than subtract from it. If a child is
watching a lot of TV and doesn't seem happy, rather than taking
control of the TV, we need to add more to their lives so they have
more options. Rather than pulling them away from something, draw them
away with something even better. And if they do choose TV it's
because they really want to watch something.
> Her 2yo sister, on the other hand, will watch for a few minutesBecause she's 2.
> and walk away while the TV is still on to do something else.
>
I don't think my daughter deliberately sought out TV shows until she
was 6 or 7. Before that she would watch TV with someone.
One problem was, later during her prepuberty years when she watched a
lot of TV, is that she felt disempowered by the programmers. It felt
like she needed to watch what was on in case a new episode happened
to show up. What helped that was TiVo. She could set it to record her
favorites and watch them whenever. It helped her be in control and
the amount of time she watched TV went down.
> We won'tBy limiting it, you're creating a rare and desired object. If she
> have to "limit" her time, it seems (at least at this point).
hasn't already, and depending on how much she likes TV, if you limit
her to say an hour a day, she'll make sure she gets that hour
everyday even if she doesn't love what she's watching. She'll try to
sneak in more until you notice just because she needs to grab it when
it's available because it's rare.
It's human nature. Adults act the same way. If something's limited
that they want, people will grab as much as they can when it's
available.
Pam wrote a good article on the economics of limiting TV:
http://SandraDodd.com/t/economics
Joyce
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think the biggest factor missing is the people. It's not that she's
less engaged when watching alone. It's that there aren't people to
watch it with.
-=-If you watch a TV show by yourself, especially one that no one else
in the house particularly likes, do you behave exactly the same while
you watch it and afterwards as you do with a movie the whole family
enjoyed together?-=-
I went to England when I was in my mid-20's, and though I had people
to stay with, I went to museums alone. A few years later, I ended up
stuck in DC when a friend's van broke down, and I went to the
Smithsonian several days, alone.
TERRIBLE. And I probably looked "vegged out" or bored. I *love*
museums, but there I was just reading and looking by myself, with the
same expression on my face when something was fantastic as when it
was just a little lame, or the display wasn't even there. I would
wonder where it was and wonder what I was missing, but there was no
expression of joy or sorrow or excitement or curiosity, because I had
no one to share it with.
-=-One problem was, later during her prepuberty years when she watched a
lot of TV, is that she felt disempowered by the programmers. It felt
like she needed to watch what was on in case a new episode happened
to show up. What helped that was TiVo. She could set it to record her
favorites and watch them whenever. It helped her be in control and
the amount of time she watched TV went down.-=-
When my kids were little there were shows they didn't want to miss,
but they were willing to leave if we set the VCR to tape them. Most
of those tapes went unwatched, but they were freeing because the kids
felt they could do two things at once.
Now they much prefer DVD and watching things online, because it's
there when they want it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
less engaged when watching alone. It's that there aren't people to
watch it with.
-=-If you watch a TV show by yourself, especially one that no one else
in the house particularly likes, do you behave exactly the same while
you watch it and afterwards as you do with a movie the whole family
enjoyed together?-=-
I went to England when I was in my mid-20's, and though I had people
to stay with, I went to museums alone. A few years later, I ended up
stuck in DC when a friend's van broke down, and I went to the
Smithsonian several days, alone.
TERRIBLE. And I probably looked "vegged out" or bored. I *love*
museums, but there I was just reading and looking by myself, with the
same expression on my face when something was fantastic as when it
was just a little lame, or the display wasn't even there. I would
wonder where it was and wonder what I was missing, but there was no
expression of joy or sorrow or excitement or curiosity, because I had
no one to share it with.
-=-One problem was, later during her prepuberty years when she watched a
lot of TV, is that she felt disempowered by the programmers. It felt
like she needed to watch what was on in case a new episode happened
to show up. What helped that was TiVo. She could set it to record her
favorites and watch them whenever. It helped her be in control and
the amount of time she watched TV went down.-=-
When my kids were little there were shows they didn't want to miss,
but they were willing to leave if we set the VCR to tape them. Most
of those tapes went unwatched, but they were freeing because the kids
felt they could do two things at once.
Now they much prefer DVD and watching things online, because it's
there when they want it.
Sandra
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