halfshadow1

I wanted some opinions here and i will post on veryyoungkidsteeth.
I called a *childrens* dentist office today and inquired about how
they do things with children for the first visit.
I asked her what it would be like for my son(6yo. in Oct.) she said
they give out a pre-school package and go over proper
snacks,brushing,flossing with the mom(I'm thinking...oh geez!)
she said said they take the child to the back,parents are not allowed
and they clean,take x-rays,and an exam.
I asked her why can't parents be with the child and she said It's
their policy,that kids do better without the parents.
Does this sound red flaggish or am i paranoid???
I then said I thought it wouldn't be all that done for the first
time,i thought it was more of an orientation type visit,she said,they
try to get it done.
I asked..well,what if my child doesn't want x-rays? and she
said...they talk them thru it.
I didn't dare ask if they ask the child if they can...i knew they
aren't respectful
My problem is i want your thoughts because it's very hard..so far..to
find a kids dentist that takes our insurance(tri-care)
she said when they turn 6yo. they can have appt.s in the afternoon but
until that age ,it's made in the morning....what's up with that? Is
this a normal dentist way of doing things?
thanks,Heather
p.s. I would particularly like to know if there are any other
questions i should ask and how you handled the visits.My son barely
lets me look in his mouth.

Annie

Hi,
I'm a dental hygienist and used to work in a pediatric dental office.
Yes, a lot of times dentists prefer to see the child alone, they do usually do better without the parents.
I totally understand where you are coming from.
Why not ask them if you can come in the room, and then if your son doesn't cooperate they can tell him that you need to leave the room if he doesn't cooperate. That usually works for most kids. Some just need their parent in the room.
Good luck,
Ann

halfshadow1 <halfshadow1@...> wrote:
I wanted some opinions here and i will post on veryyoungkidsteeth.
I called a *childrens* dentist office today and inquired about how
they do things with children for the first visit.
I asked her what it would be like for my son(6yo. in Oct.) she said
they give out a pre-school package and go over proper
snacks,brushing,flossing with the mom(I'm thinking...oh geez!)
she said said they take the child to the back,parents are not allowed
and they clean,take x-rays,and an exam.
I asked her why can't parents be with the child and she said It's
their policy,that kids do better without the parents.
Does this sound red flaggish or am i paranoid???
I then said I thought it wouldn't be all that done for the first
time,i thought it was more of an orientation type visit,she said,they
try to get it done.
I asked..well,what if my child doesn't want x-rays? and she
said...they talk them thru it.
I didn't dare ask if they ask the child if they can...i knew they
aren't respectful
My problem is i want your thoughts because it's very hard..so far..to
find a kids dentist that takes our insurance(tri-care)
she said when they turn 6yo. they can have appt.s in the afternoon but
until that age ,it's made in the morning....what's up with that? Is
this a normal dentist way of doing things?
thanks,Heather
p.s. I would particularly like to know if there are any other
questions i should ask and how you handled the visits.My son barely
lets me look in his mouth.






---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

We've been to two different dentists, one when my older two were
little and then a new one (the first had retired to go be a stay-at-
home mom - she'd had 3 kids during the years we were her patients)
when my youngest was little. For a first visit, I went for a regular
appointment, myself, and, at the end, my kids sat in the chair, on my
lap. The dentist just looked inside their mouth, didn't even touch
them. He said super nice things like, "Wow, great teeth." That was
about it. Maybe 3 minutes, total. We goofed with the chair a little
and turned the big light off and on.

A week or two later, we went back and the dentist said hi to the
child and told her that the hygienist was going to brush her teeth
with special brushes. He showed the child how it worked. The
hygienist did it very very very gently - first with a regular
toothbrush and then polished with the electric polishing tool. No
scraping. Then she showed the child some x-rays of teeth and said
that next time they'd take that kind of special pictures. So we made
yet another appointment for a week or so later and then went in for x-
rays only.

I never liked pediatric dentists (I've taken my nieces and nephews to
them, on occasion) because there was an atmosphere of "herding" lots
of little, recalcitrant children. Also, the assumption that they've
got to be bribed/rewarded for a dentist visit (choose a little gift
at the end, get stickers, etc.) makes a negative statement. We go to
one-person offices where we are all treated as individuals, children
and adults. My kids don't get all the gimmicks that pediatric
dentists use (bubble gum flavored rinse or whatever), but they are
treated respectfully, just like any adult would be.

-pam


On Jun 25, 2007, at 5:06 PM, halfshadow1 wrote:

> I asked her what it would be like for my son(6yo. in Oct.) she said
> they give out a pre-school package and go over proper
> snacks,brushing,flossing with the mom(I'm thinking...oh geez!)
> she said said they take the child to the back,p



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<<> I asked her what it would be like for my son(6yo. in Oct.) she said
> they give out a pre-school package and go over proper
> snacks,brushing,flossing with the mom(I'm thinking...oh geez!)
> she said said they take the child to the back,parents are not allowed
> and they clean,take x-rays,and an exam.
> I asked her why can't parents be with the child and she said It's
> their policy,that kids do better without the parents.
> Does this sound red flaggish or am i paranoid??? >>>

Well it was a red flag for me because it is very easy for medical
professionals to believe that they are in charge, and expect the parents to
back up their authoritarian plays.

A couple of years ago Jayn had an emergency dental situation, and I posted
the whole long story as well as wrote an article for Live Free, Learn Free
magazine. The story should be in the archives of Unschooling Discussion if
that helps. Would you like me to send you the article off list?

The best advice I have as a result of that situation is that it is worth
taking the time to find a good, full service and child-repectful dentist.
They do exist. By full service I mean that they do any surgery there, where
a rapport and relationship has hopefully been established. Believe me, if
you think some dentists are disrespectful wait until you have to find a
dental surgeon who is willing to take things at the child's pace. It is also
worth the peace of mind to have an anesthetist for any surgery, rather than
just the dentist.

I eventually found someone who was kind, gentle, respectful and slow (ie at
Jayn's pace), and didn't make threats to force compliance. She always
explains to Jayn what she is going to do, and asks if she is ready.

<<<< I then said I thought it wouldn't be all that done for the first
> time,i thought it was more of an orientation type visit,she said,they
> try to get it done. >>>>

You have to be careful because they have different meanings for the same
words, as I found out the hard way. When you say, or Jayn says, "just saying
hello" or "just meeting" we mean literally meeting the dentist and staff,
looking over the office maybe, asking questions about procedures. They mean
the child sits in the chair and opens her mouth, gets a cleaning probably
and x-rays, but no *major* work is done.

What city are you in? I have a fabulous, non-judgemental dentist now. Jayn
is always delighted to go there, makes drawings for her, and calls when she
loses a tooth.

<<<< she said when they turn 6yo. they can have appt.s in the afternoon but
> until that age ,it's made in the morning....what's up with that? Is
> this a normal dentist way of doing things? >>>>

Jayn's dentist schedules around us, with the caveat that she does have one
day every month (or maybe every two weeks) set aside for surgery when she
sees no other patients. It is normal in that they assume that a 6yo is in
school so they fill the mornings with pre-school age kids.

One thing that is sometimes helpful is to pick up some plastic dentist tools
and play act the procedures - he "does" you, his teddy and Daddy, then you
"do" him to the extent he will let you. This is something that I heard about
on veryyoungkidsteeth, although it was not something that we needed to do as
it turned out.

Robyn L. Coburn





> thanks,Heather
> p.s. I would particularly like to know if there are any other
> questions i should ask and how you handled the visits.My son barely
> lets me look in his mouth.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

halfshadow1

I live in Scottsmoor,fl. but the closet town is Titusville. I love the
idea about getting some dental toys and playing dentist. Please do
send me the article off list,thanks!--- In
[email protected], "Robyn L. Coburn" <dezigna@...> wrote:
>
> <<<<> I asked her what it would be like for my son(6yo. in Oct.) she
said
> > they give out a pre-school package and go over proper
> > snacks,brushing,flossing with the mom(I'm thinking...oh geez!)
> > she said said they take the child to the back,parents are not allowed
> > and they clean,take x-rays,and an exam.
> > I asked her why can't parents be with the child and she said It's
> > their policy,that kids do better without the parents.
> > Does this sound red flaggish or am i paranoid??? >>>
>
> Well it was a red flag for me because it is very easy for medical
> professionals to believe that they are in charge, and expect the
parents to
> back up their authoritarian plays.
>
> A couple of years ago Jayn had an emergency dental situation, and I
posted
> the whole long story as well as wrote an article for Live Free,
Learn Free
> magazine. The story should be in the archives of Unschooling
Discussion if
> that helps. Would you like me to send you the article off list?
>
> The best advice I have as a result of that situation is that it is
worth
> taking the time to find a good, full service and child-repectful
dentist.
> They do exist. By full service I mean that they do any surgery
there, where
> a rapport and relationship has hopefully been established. Believe
me, if
> you think some dentists are disrespectful wait until you have to find a
> dental surgeon who is willing to take things at the child's pace. It
is also
> worth the peace of mind to have an anesthetist for any surgery,
rather than
> just the dentist.
>
> I eventually found someone who was kind, gentle, respectful and slow
(ie at
> Jayn's pace), and didn't make threats to force compliance. She always
> explains to Jayn what she is going to do, and asks if she is ready.
>
> <<<< I then said I thought it wouldn't be all that done for the first
> > time,i thought it was more of an orientation type visit,she said,they
> > try to get it done. >>>>
>
> You have to be careful because they have different meanings for the
same
> words, as I found out the hard way. When you say, or Jayn says,
"just saying
> hello" or "just meeting" we mean literally meeting the dentist and
staff,
> looking over the office maybe, asking questions about procedures.
They mean
> the child sits in the chair and opens her mouth, gets a cleaning
probably
> and x-rays, but no *major* work is done.
>
> What city are you in? I have a fabulous, non-judgemental dentist
now. Jayn
> is always delighted to go there, makes drawings for her, and calls
when she
> loses a tooth.
>
> <<<< she said when they turn 6yo. they can have appt.s in the
afternoon but
> > until that age ,it's made in the morning....what's up with that? Is
> > this a normal dentist way of doing things? >>>>
>
> Jayn's dentist schedules around us, with the caveat that she does
have one
> day every month (or maybe every two weeks) set aside for surgery
when she
> sees no other patients. It is normal in that they assume that a 6yo
is in
> school so they fill the mornings with pre-school age kids.
>
> One thing that is sometimes helpful is to pick up some plastic
dentist tools
> and play act the procedures - he "does" you, his teddy and Daddy,
then you
> "do" him to the extent he will let you. This is something that I
heard about
> on veryyoungkidsteeth, although it was not something that we needed
to do as
> it turned out.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
>
>
>
>
> > thanks,Heather
> > p.s. I would particularly like to know if there are any other
> > questions i should ask and how you handled the visits.My son barely
> > lets me look in his mouth.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Christy Mahoney

I don't see how it would be a good idea to use fear in order to get
cooperation. To me, that's the same as a parent threatening to
leave a child in order to get them to come along!

If the child is scared/doesn't want to be there/feels
uncomfortable/is unable to hold the x-ray thing in his mouth, then
he should be able to tell the dentist or his parent and know that he
will be taken seriously.

When it comes to the dentist, if something doesn't work for my
child, then it doesn't really matter what works for most children.

The worst experiences we have had with dentists have been with
pediatric dentists. We've had much better communication with
general dentists. They have been more willing to listen and less
rigid in their "rules".

-Christy

> Hi,
> I'm a dental hygienist and used to work in a pediatric dental
office.
> Yes, a lot of times dentists prefer to see the child alone, they
do usually do better without the parents.
> I totally understand where you are coming from.
> Why not ask them if you can come in the room, and then if your
son doesn't cooperate they can tell him that you need to leave the
room if he doesn't cooperate. That usually works for most kids.
Some just need their parent in the room.
> Good luck,
> Ann
>
> halfshadow1 <halfshadow1@...> wrote:
> I wanted some opinions here and i will post on
veryyoungkidsteeth.
> I called a *childrens* dentist office today and inquired about how
> they do things with children for the first visit.
> I asked her what it would be like for my son(6yo. in Oct.) she said
> they give out a pre-school package and go over proper
> snacks,brushing,flossing with the mom(I'm thinking...oh geez!)
> she said said they take the child to the back,parents are not
allowed
> and they clean,take x-rays,and an exam.
> I asked her why can't parents be with the child and she said It's
> their policy,that kids do better without the parents.
> Does this sound red flaggish or am i paranoid???
> I then said I thought it wouldn't be all that done for the first
> time,i thought it was more of an orientation type visit,she
said,they
> try to get it done.
> I asked..well,what if my child doesn't want x-rays? and she
> said...they talk them thru it.
> I didn't dare ask if they ask the child if they can...i knew they
> aren't respectful
> My problem is i want your thoughts because it's very hard..so
far..to
> find a kids dentist that takes our insurance(tri-care)
> she said when they turn 6yo. they can have appt.s in the afternoon
but
> until that age ,it's made in the morning....what's up with that? Is
> this a normal dentist way of doing things?
> thanks,Heather
> p.s. I would particularly like to know if there are any other
> questions i should ask and how you handled the visits.My son barely
> lets me look in his mouth.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

tootskds

I think children are much calmer without their parents there. I have
experienced this with my boys when they were small. I think they
handled it well. The dentist office that they visited had video games
and a ton of activities to ease their minds. It worked! They always
had a blast.

Karen

--- In [email protected], "halfshadow1" <halfshadow1@...>
wrote:
>
> I wanted some opinions here and i will post on veryyoungkidsteeth.
> I called a *childrens* dentist office today and inquired about how
> they do things with children for the first visit.
> I asked her what it would be like for my son(6yo. in Oct.) she said
> they give out a pre-school package and go over proper
> snacks,brushing,flossing with the mom(I'm thinking...oh geez!)
> she said said they take the child to the back,parents are not allowed
> and they clean,take x-rays,and an exam.
> I asked her why can't parents be with the child and she said It's
> their policy,that kids do better without the parents.
> Does this sound red flaggish or am i paranoid???
> I then said I thought it wouldn't be all that done for the first
> time,i thought it was more of an orientation type visit,she said,they
> try to get it done.
> I asked..well,what if my child doesn't want x-rays? and she
> said...they talk them thru it.
> I didn't dare ask if they ask the child if they can...i knew they
> aren't respectful
> My problem is i want your thoughts because it's very hard..so far..to
> find a kids dentist that takes our insurance(tri-care)
> she said when they turn 6yo. they can have appt.s in the afternoon but
> until that age ,it's made in the morning....what's up with that? Is
> this a normal dentist way of doing things?
> thanks,Heather
> p.s. I would particularly like to know if there are any other
> questions i should ask and how you handled the visits.My son barely
> lets me look in his mouth.
>

Annie

I should have also mentioned that if you get a strange or not good feeling about the office- forget about going there. I'm sure you probably know that already.
Like I said previously- I'm a hygienist and I've seen all different types of philosophies and attitudes. Many are just plain out for the $, but there are good ones out there. Unfortunately this happens in this field, just like others.
Since you live in Florida I can't help you with that, but ask around the people that you know and seem to have good judgement. Most dentists also agree that you need to go through word of mouth and never just pick one from the phone book. You can get lucky, but please ask other people and do go to just meet them. If they don't allow that -you probably DO NOT want to take your son there:( I also agree with the person who said you don't need a pediatric office. It's probably smart to go to a good general dentist that will do most procedures, so that he doesn't have to be referred elsewhere for any extractions, etc.
I used to be the most fearful patient- I'm great now. My daughter was just like me at 6-7 years old. I took her to a pediatric dentist who didn't allow me in the room for the fillings. She did not respond well to that. I found another dentist and she became so cooperative and has no fear of going to the dentist now. It's awful how many adults still are phobic when going to the dentist even for a cleaning. The personality of the hygienist and dentist are soooo important.
I don't know if you live near a Dr. Ira Ginsberg. If you do he would probably be able to refer you to a great dentist. I grew up with him and he is very honest and I'm sure his referral would be good.
Hope this has been of help to you!
Good luck in searching for a dentist!
Annie


Annie <amgreejoyjoyblue@...> wrote:
Hi,
I'm a dental hygienist and used to work in a pediatric dental office.
Yes, a lot of times dentists prefer to see the child alone, they do usually do better without the parents.
I totally understand where you are coming from.
Why not ask them if you can come in the room, and then if your son doesn't cooperate they can tell him that you need to leave the room if he doesn't cooperate. That usually works for most kids. Some just need their parent in the room.
Good luck,
Ann

halfshadow1 <halfshadow1@...> wrote:
I wanted some opinions here and i will post on veryyoungkidsteeth.
I called a *childrens* dentist office today and inquired about how
they do things with children for the first visit.
I asked her what it would be like for my son(6yo. in Oct.) she said
they give out a pre-school package and go over proper
snacks,brushing,flossing with the mom(I'm thinking...oh geez!)
she said said they take the child to the back,parents are not allowed
and they clean,take x-rays,and an exam.
I asked her why can't parents be with the child and she said It's
their policy,that kids do better without the parents.
Does this sound red flaggish or am i paranoid???
I then said I thought it wouldn't be all that done for the first
time,i thought it was more of an orientation type visit,she said,they
try to get it done.
I asked..well,what if my child doesn't want x-rays? and she
said...they talk them thru it.
I didn't dare ask if they ask the child if they can...i knew they
aren't respectful
My problem is i want your thoughts because it's very hard..so far..to
find a kids dentist that takes our insurance(tri-care)
she said when they turn 6yo. they can have appt.s in the afternoon but
until that age ,it's made in the morning....what's up with that? Is
this a normal dentist way of doing things?
thanks,Heather
p.s. I would particularly like to know if there are any other
questions i should ask and how you handled the visits.My son barely
lets me look in his mouth.

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jun 26, 2007, at 3:14 AM, tootskds wrote:

> I think children are much calmer without their parents there.

I think my girls would have appeared calm, because they'd have been
very very very quiet and compliant. But, inside, they'd have been
freaked out, scared, felt abandoned and upset and angry. They would
very likely have behaved extremely well, the dentist would have said
what "good girls" they were, I'm sure.

So, if the goal is to get the kids through the visit with as little
work as possible for the dentist/staff, then sending mine in alone
and telling them to just do what they were told, would have worked. I
think there are MANY kids like mine who will behave well (better)
without the parent there. But, that doesn't mean it is the best thing
for the child. If the child is acting "fine," but starts to cry or
act scared when the parent shows up, then those feelings were already
there, just well hidden.

Even when my kids were older, I'd wander in and out of the room -
just stand in the doorway sometimes. I was very casual and acted like
it was the most normal thing in the world for mom to sort of wander
in and see how things are going. A few times someone asked me, "Can I
help you?" with a sense that I was not where I was supposed to be,
but I just said, calmly <g>, "Oh, no, I'm fine." (No explanations - I
am the mother, I don't have to explain why I'm wanting to be near my
own child.)


-pam





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I think my girls would have appeared calm, because they'd have been
very very very quiet and compliant. But, inside, they'd have been
freaked out, scared, felt abandoned and upset and angry.-=-

Like school.

Schools say "no problem" because most of the kids just go with it,
but if you ask adults, years later, how they felt, you hear a
different story. And some kids (most?) get through it by telling
themselves it's better to be independent, and their moms don't like
them all that much anyway, to leave them in scary situations, and
after a few years of those internal justifications, they no longer
trust nor really want to be with their moms as much as they might've
otherwise.

It's a slippery slope.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jenstarc4

>
> I think my girls would have appeared calm, because they'd have been
> very very very quiet and compliant. But, inside, they'd have been
> freaked out, scared, felt abandoned and upset and angry. They would
> very likely have behaved extremely well, the dentist would have said
> what "good girls" they were, I'm sure.
>

That can be applied to almost any situation too. Just yesterday, I
stayed with Chamille (13) to help her help out at a daycamp. I had
actually stayed for a few minutes because I thought Margaux (5)
wouldn't do well without me. Turns out she didn't really care wether I
stayed or not, but it's a good thing I did, because Chamille just about
threw up because she was so nervous about helping, something I didn't
expect at all!

I'm sure she would've done just fine without me, but the fact is she
would've kept it all to herself, but really it wouldn't have changed
the fact that she needed me there. Today, she was fine with me leaving
her there. I asked her and she told me with honesty, not just to put
on a brave face for her mom. A lot of parents don't get that, they
just don't do that for their kids, they expect them to behave a certain
way and push them into that, especially when they are "old enough".
Both of my kids KNOW without a doubt that I would never ever push them
into a situation that they are uncomfortable with, so they can tell me
honestly when they are un/comfortable.

Gold Standard

I would never leave my child in a dentist's chair, or anywhere, without them
telling me that that is what they wanted. I don't care what the
"professionals" say...they don't know what MY child needs...they know what
THEY want...a compliant (scared?) child to do what they are told. And
schools are like that too.

We had a pediatric dentist who had a chair for the parent in the room. He
was very respectful, and if the child became upset, he had some strategies
for helping, but if they didn't work, he would say that this doesn't seem to
be the time for this dental work. I was always so impressed with that, but
heard other parents complain about him.

He was very sensitive himself, and I know that he was just right there with
the child. I heard him refer parents to other dentists who he knew would do
the work regardless of the child's feelings, if the parents pushed, but he
didn't like doing that.

He also referred out for sedated work, which he didn't do, for children who
needed immediate dental work but weren't relaxed enough yet with the dentist
to do it.

My oldest has had excruciating medical procedures that had to be done for
him to live. There was no choice. He has had three open-heart surgeries so
far...each one more physically and emotionally damaging than the last. On
top of that, he is VERY sensitive, as in, has a heightened sense of light,
sound, taste, touch, etc...he has lived with great anxiety most of his life,
was not been able to navigate the world outside our home too easily...didn't
understand people and their cues and reactions, etc. So it was crucial for
us to find doctors and staff who would let him be as in control as possible.

Because of these medical issues, he has hardly ever been to the dentist. It
was always on a back burner. It was just too much for him to deal with (lots
of anxiety of anything being done to his body, as well as needles). When we
did go, he could only open his mouth about 1/2 and inch. He thought he was
opening it very wide like requested. He is now 18 and is asking to go to the
dentist.

I called a local pediatric dentist that was recommended, even though he is
18, because I was told they have a real special and relaxed way with kids.
That office recommended a dentist that works with "special needs" adults as
well as general dentistry. I'm not sure what I think about that, but my
experience has been that "special needs" professionals (less the school
system who tries to box people and mold them) tend to be more understanding,
respectful, patient, etc., so we're going to check them out tomorrow.

I know some people have recommended not going to pediatric dentists, but we
have had such fabulous experiences with Children's Hospitals (3 different
ones in 3 different parts of the country) and sometimes Children's Hospitals
have dentists offices associated with them, ones where the kids are in
charge and are very respected. It may be worth checking out if there is a
Children's Hospital near you, and if they have a dental clinic.

Jacki

Emily

I started my son with a pediatric dentist. They said I could go back
with him for the first appointment but not after that. This did not
sit well with me, but I figured I'd worry about that for the second
appointment. They also made me sign something about me refusing x-rays
and how I understood that all decay couldn't be spotted without them.
He was 3! I switched to a family dentist and have been thrilled. The
dental hygentist is actually better than the other place. It costs a
lot less. They encourage parents to stay with their kids.

Cathy

I would not allow a dentist near my children without my presence, especially
not for a first visit!

I was terrified of dentists, so much so that I have a skew front tooth to
this day, because I couldn't force myself to go into the orthodontist's
office on my own (my mother thought that at the age of 15 I was big enough
to go on my own). I don't want my children to be at risk of this kind of
paralyzing fear - it took me years, and the patient and understanding
ministrations of a trusted dentist, to overcome it.

My children like going to the dentist, it is an adventure. And I am right
there if they need me.

If I was in your shoes I would look for a dentist who is more accepting of
my role in my children's lives.

Regards

Cathy





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

halfshadow1

your son had 3 open hearts done? I totally feel for you. My son had
one done when he was two yo. He was born with v.s.d.,tricuspid regurg,
and a little pulmenary stenosis. The v.s.d was closed and he does not
need any further surgeries.I can not give my son any medicine no
matter how it is hidden because his heart doc's asst. gave him
something to calm him for one of his heart echo's and he threw up.so,
ever since that he will not take any medicine. Luckily he has always
been so active and healthy. He was so spirited before his surgery that
you never would have guessed that he had something wrong with his
heart. Expect for his thinness.He has only been sick twice for only a
day each time...maybe because he nursed until he was four?He has never
been to a dentist and hardly lets me look in his mouth, i don't know
how this dentist thing is going to go over with him,lol!!thanks for
yours and everyone's advice.--- In [email protected],
"Gold Standard" <jacki@...> wrote:
>
> I would never leave my child in a dentist's chair, or anywhere,
without them
> telling me that that is what they wanted. I don't care what the
> "professionals" say...they don't know what MY child needs...they
know what
> THEY want...a compliant (scared?) child to do what they are told. And
> schools are like that too.
>
> We had a pediatric dentist who had a chair for the parent in the
room. He
> was very respectful, and if the child became upset, he had some
strategies
> for helping, but if they didn't work, he would say that this doesn't
seem to
> be the time for this dental work. I was always so impressed with
that, but
> heard other parents complain about him.
>
> He was very sensitive himself, and I know that he was just right
there with
> the child. I heard him refer parents to other dentists who he knew
would do
> the work regardless of the child's feelings, if the parents pushed,
but he
> didn't like doing that.
>
> He also referred out for sedated work, which he didn't do, for
children who
> needed immediate dental work but weren't relaxed enough yet with the
dentist
> to do it.
>
> My oldest has had excruciating medical procedures that had to be
done for
> him to live. There was no choice. He has had three open-heart
surgeries so
> far...each one more physically and emotionally damaging than the
last. On
> top of that, he is VERY sensitive, as in, has a heightened sense of
light,
> sound, taste, touch, etc...he has lived with great anxiety most of
his life,
> was not been able to navigate the world outside our home too
easily...didn't
> understand people and their cues and reactions, etc. So it was
crucial for
> us to find doctors and staff who would let him be as in control as
possible.
>
> Because of these medical issues, he has hardly ever been to the
dentist. It
> was always on a back burner. It was just too much for him to deal
with (lots
> of anxiety of anything being done to his body, as well as needles).
When we
> did go, he could only open his mouth about 1/2 and inch. He thought
he was
> opening it very wide like requested. He is now 18 and is asking to
go to the
> dentist.
>
> I called a local pediatric dentist that was recommended, even though
he is
> 18, because I was told they have a real special and relaxed way with
kids.
> That office recommended a dentist that works with "special needs"
adults as
> well as general dentistry. I'm not sure what I think about that, but my
> experience has been that "special needs" professionals (less the school
> system who tries to box people and mold them) tend to be more
understanding,
> respectful, patient, etc., so we're going to check them out tomorrow.
>
> I know some people have recommended not going to pediatric dentists,
but we
> have had such fabulous experiences with Children's Hospitals (3
different
> ones in 3 different parts of the country) and sometimes Children's
Hospitals
> have dentists offices associated with them, ones where the kids are in
> charge and are very respected. It may be worth checking out if there
is a
> Children's Hospital near you, and if they have a dental clinic.
>
> Jacki
>

Gold Standard

>>He has only been sick twice for only a
>>day each time...maybe because he nursed until he was four?<<

Yeah, our guy nursed until he was 3 1/2, and outside his physical problems,
was pretty healthy.

One related story about listening to our children in the presence of
"authority" or "professionals"...

Andrew was 5 months old the first time he had open-heart surgery for a
complicated congenital heart defect.

After the surgery, he was in the ICU, tubes coming out of most orifices.
They took out the breathing tube after a while, and the nurse said that when
he woke up, they'd start to feed him a bottle.

I said that he had never had a bottle in his life, and I didn't intend to
start him on one now. The nurse rolled her eyes and said, "He needs to learn
sometime."

?????

I said, "Aaaa, no he doesn't." She went on to say that his intake needed to
be measured exactly, and that couldn't be done with breastfeeding. I said
that I knew how much milk was in each breast, as I had been pumping for
days, and that we would have a close estimate. She said that wasn't an
option. I told her that knowing the exact amount of how much goes in and how
much comes out wasn't necessary, we'd know if his kidneys weren't working
with close estimates. She said she would only bottle feed him. I told her
that she was not to touch my son for feeding, and if she needed me to talk
to her superior, I would be glad to. I never left his bedside.

She clocked out soon after. I said nothing but pleasantries to the new
nurse, and when Andrew woke up, I picked him up and offered him the breast.
He hadn't had anything in his stomach for a day and a half. He nursed away
and I know that this helped with his emotional and physical healing at that
time.

I told the new nurse that Andrew had just breastfed, and that he emptied one
breast, which I knew from pumping, equaled about 4 ounces. She looked quite
pleased and marked it in his record. We continued this way for the rest of
his recovery.

It can take bravery to really protect our children, and to do what is best
for them, especially if we are in a realm that we are not familiar with.
There may be times when we don't have all the answers, or know the "right"
thing to do (like in the case of medical care), but we can read up and learn
and stay as informed as we can to help navigate the way for our children.
There are SO many "rules" in places (schools, hospitals, dentist offices)
that are put there for purposes that have nothing to do with what's best for
our kids. It's really helpful to try to figure these things out as best as
we can beforehand, and to question anything that doesn't seem best for our
kids.

Jacki

Robyn L. Coburn

<<< I'm sure she would've done just fine without me, but the fact is she
> would've kept it all to herself, but really it wouldn't have changed
> the fact that she needed me there. >>>>>

When Jayn first began dancing at 3.5 she was too scared to dance without me
there. The teacher normally doesn't allow spectators - to keep a
non-judgmental atmosphere - but encourages parents to tip toe and peek every
now and then. However she let that go for Jayn's comfort.

She and crying Jayn appeared at her front door, to find me lurking very
nervously outside - I had a feeling Jayn wouldn't last. Then I sat on the
floor of the dance class for the first year. Jayn would run over several
times during the class to get a kissy. Over the course of the seven months
of classes I moved from the floor of the class to the stairwell. I would
bring a book with me.

The second year, again relaxing her usual rule, I waited downstairs in the
teacher's living room during the class (a huge improvement in my comfort).

Now having just completed her fourth year of dancing, Jayn is completely
comfortable, and I can even go off on errands during the class.

When one of the dental surgeons we visited threatened Jayn that she would
send dh and I out if Jayn didn't open her mouth and sit quietly, James and I
were horrified. The ds clearly assumed that we would back up that play, but
Jayn was terrified, and we all left instead. Lucky for us she is not one to
suppress her own feelings!

Robyn L. Coburn

tyra beaulieu

I don't know where you live but here in CT that is NOT the way children are seen. I worked for a pediatric /adult dentist for almost 4 years and the parents were and still are always allowed back. As a matter of fact they were even allowed in the operating room when the kids had severe teeth problems and needed to be anesthetized. They would stay till their kid fell asleep. This dentist and his office is totally out of line. they work for you not the other way around. if it wasn't for you they would be out of business. on another note please don't wait any longer to bring your son to the dentist or if you have any other kids. It is super important that they see the dentist for the first time no later than 2 years of age. It will only be a quick tooth count and simple cleaning but it is sooooo important that their baby teeth are healthy before their permanent teeth come in. my kids starting seeing the DMD when they turned 1year. My oldest son has a bite misalignment but i
would not have known how serious it was had i not brought him in. he has to see an orthodontist and he's only 7. Good luck with your endeavor and remember YOU are your child's only advocate and the Dr. is NOT always right. Your son has no one else to stand up for him except you. i would hate for him to be scared of the DMD for the rest of his life because one DMD is a schmo.
tyra

halfshadow1 <halfshadow1@...> wrote:
I wanted some opinions here and i will post on veryyoungkidsteeth.
I called a *childrens* dentist office today and inquired about how
they do things with children for the first visit.
I asked her what it would be like for my son(6yo. in Oct.) she said
they give out a pre-school package and go over proper
snacks,brushing,flossing with the mom(I'm thinking...oh geez!)
she said said they take the child to the back,parents are not allowed
and they clean,take x-rays,and an exam.
I asked her why can't parents be with the child and she said It's
their policy,that kids do better without the parents.
Does this sound red flaggish or am i paranoid???
I then said I thought it wouldn't be all that done for the first
time,i thought it was more of an orientation type visit,she said,they
try to get it done.
I asked..well,what if my child doesn't want x-rays? and she
said...they talk them thru it.
I didn't dare ask if they ask the child if they can...i knew they
aren't respectful
My problem is i want your thoughts because it's very hard..so far..to
find a kids dentist that takes our insurance(tri-care)
she said when they turn 6yo. they can have appt.s in the afternoon but
until that age ,it's made in the morning....what's up with that? Is
this a normal dentist way of doing things?
thanks,Heather
p.s. I would particularly like to know if there are any other
questions i should ask and how you handled the visits.My son barely
lets me look in his mouth.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gold Standard

>>It is super important that they see the dentist for the first time no
later than 2 years of age.<<

Says who?

>>It will only be a quick tooth count and simple cleaning but<<

I've been to many different dentist offices, and no one of them seem to be
on the same schedule. I think this is pretty individual, though I know that
in general most of them are following the latest doctrine of the American
Dental Association, which has changed its recommendations many times over
the years.

>>it is sooooo important that their baby teeth are healthy before their
permanent teeth come in.<<

The exact opposite of what the standard recommendation was when my kids were
that age. I was told that their baby teeth would fall out and that their
baby teeth would not influence their second teeth at all. There was not as
much emphasis on dental care for babies at that time, and I don't see any
negative result from that with these kids who are now teenagers and adults.

These recommendations are a good example of blanket "rules" in medicine that
don't individualize for our kids and our situations. Examples of the need to
research and find real and true information. I trust that many intelligent
parents would be able to take good measures for their kids' teeth without a
lot of dentist intervention.

>>My oldest son has a bite misalignment but i
>>would not have known how serious it was had i not brought him in. he has
to see an orthodontist and he's only 7.<<

How serious is it? What would supposedly happen if you didn't know and
didn't do anything?

The world of orthodontics is a curious one to me. What did people do before
it existed? Did their mouths cave in? I have a hard time believing that
there is as much *need* (as in health would deteriorate without it) for
orthodontic work as there are braces on kids. It seems like in many cases
orthodontic work is more a choice (or should be) than helping a serious
health issue. And at the same time, I'm sure there is SOME useful need for
it.

My youngest (13) has very crooked teeth. I've asked him if he was interested
in braces. So far he's said no. Many of his friends have been to the
orthodontist and have been made to wear braces. Some of them didn't seem to
even have crooked teeth. And most of them don't follow the recommendations
for keeping the braces clean and in good shape.


Jacki, who may find out from this post that there is a world of serious
health issues she didn't know about...

halfshadow1

-I have been beating myself up with...why the hell didn't i take him
sooner and ...will these people think i'm a bad mom because he's 5 and
hasn't been to a dentist...So, i was worried a little posting this
question. It had to do with money, so many co-pays made us broke and
my ds doesn't make alot. plus, i just knew my son would never had sit
in an office when he was younger but now it might happen...i know my
son. so, thanks for writing this.-- In [email protected],
"Gold Standard" <jacki@...> wrote:
>
> >>It is super important that they see the dentist for the first time no
> later than 2 years of age.<<
>
> Says who?
>
> >>It will only be a quick tooth count and simple cleaning but<<
>
> I've been to many different dentist offices, and no one of them seem
to be
> on the same schedule. I think this is pretty individual, though I
know that
> in general most of them are following the latest doctrine of the
American
> Dental Association, which has changed its recommendations many times
over
> the years.
>
> >>it is sooooo important that their baby teeth are healthy before their
> permanent teeth come in.<<
>
> The exact opposite of what the standard recommendation was when my
kids were
> that age. I was told that their baby teeth would fall out and that their
> baby teeth would not influence their second teeth at all. There was
not as
> much emphasis on dental care for babies at that time, and I don't
see any
> negative result from that with these kids who are now teenagers and
adults.
>
> These recommendations are a good example of blanket "rules" in
medicine that
> don't individualize for our kids and our situations. Examples of the
need to
> research and find real and true information. I trust that many
intelligent
> parents would be able to take good measures for their kids' teeth
without a
> lot of dentist intervention.
>
> >>My oldest son has a bite misalignment but i
> >>would not have known how serious it was had i not brought him in.
he has
> to see an orthodontist and he's only 7.<<
>
> How serious is it? What would supposedly happen if you didn't know and
> didn't do anything?
>
> The world of orthodontics is a curious one to me. What did people do
before
> it existed? Did their mouths cave in? I have a hard time believing that
> there is as much *need* (as in health would deteriorate without it) for
> orthodontic work as there are braces on kids. It seems like in many
cases
> orthodontic work is more a choice (or should be) than helping a serious
> health issue. And at the same time, I'm sure there is SOME useful
need for
> it.
>
> My youngest (13) has very crooked teeth. I've asked him if he was
interested
> in braces. So far he's said no. Many of his friends have been to the
> orthodontist and have been made to wear braces. Some of them didn't
seem to
> even have crooked teeth. And most of them don't follow the
recommendations
> for keeping the braces clean and in good shape.
>
>
> Jacki, who may find out from this post that there is a world of serious
> health issues she didn't know about...
>

jenstarc4

--- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@...>
wrote:
>
> >>It is super important that they see the dentist for the first
time no
> later than 2 years of age.<<
>
> Says who?
>

I wonder that too. My oldest daughter didn't see a dentist until she
was 6 or 7. She had a couple of cavities that they filled and a
couple they left to wait until they fell out and were replaced with
good healthy adult teeth. That encompassed 2 visits to the dentist,
one to check and clean, and another to fill the cavities.

Fastforward to now, she just went to the dentist about a month ago,
this would be her third trip to the dentist. No cavities, clean
teeth, probably genetic. She has a couple of teeth that need to come
out because her adult teeth are trying to come in under them. She
said "no way", even though they highly recommended it and I later
explained why they recommended it. She still says "no way". I put
up a sticky note in the bathroom to remind her to wiggle her teeth,
so they can come out soon, before they force her adult teeth to come
in, in places they shouldn't and hopefully avoid braces.

Chamille is 13 and has had a total of 4 cavities, 2 of them were
filled, with a total number of 3 trips to the dentist. I really
don't see how taking her at the age of 1 or 2 would have done
anything but cost me money I didn't have! She hardly had any teeth
at that age anyway.

My 5 yr old has cavities, you can see them. It's from extended
nursing. Sometimes they hurt and sometimes they don't. She doesn't
want to go to the dentist. If they start hurting so much that it
interferes with living happily and eating what she wants, we will go
to the dentist. She absolutely never would've tolerated a dentist at
the age of 2!

Fetteroll

On Jun 27, 2007, at 11:46 AM, Gold Standard wrote:

> The world of orthodontics is a curious one to me. What did people
> do before
> it existed?

What I heard is that it's mostly an American thing -- though that's
changing a bit -- because American's are such a mishmosh of different
ethnic groups. In their native land, Italians had Italian sized teeth
that fit Italian sized jaws. Romanians had Romanian sized teeth that
fit Romanian sized jaws. But Americans have mixed the teeth and jaws
so they're less likely to fit.

Don't know if it's true but it sounds right.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gold Standard

>> American's are such a mishmosh of different
>>ethnic groups. In their native land, Italians had Italian sized teeth
>>that fit Italian sized jaws. Romanians had Romanian sized teeth that
>>fit Romanian sized jaws. But Americans have mixed the teeth and jaws
>>so they're less likely to fit.<<

Holy Incisors!! That's amazing! I've never heard of it before!

Thanks Joyce! It is a starting point for my new research subject :o)

Jacki

Nancy Wooton

On Jun 27, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Gold Standard wrote:

>>> American's are such a mishmosh of different
>>> ethnic groups. In their native land, Italians had Italian sized teeth
>>> that fit Italian sized jaws. Romanians had Romanian sized teeth that
>>> fit Romanian sized jaws. But Americans have mixed the teeth and jaws
>>> so they're less likely to fit.<<
>
> Holy Incisors!! That's amazing! I've never heard of it before!
>
> Thanks Joyce! It is a starting point for my new research subject :o)
>

Now you have to check out this YouTube clip from the Simpsons, of The
Big Book of British Smiles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGjhEM-lkZI

I have very large teeth (mom) and a relatively small jaw (English via
American South dad) and would have had one of these smiles had it not
been for orthodontia and 8 extractions to fit 'em all.

Nancy :-D

alexandriapalonia

We didn't bother with a pediatric dentist, just took eldest dd along
to ours starting at 2yo.

We had the world's grumpiest dentist with zero bedside manner.
He had the best hygenists.

She loved it there.
I think she was the only child patient he had.

I imagine going for the first time at 6 would be far more traumatic
than hitting the double-digit visit at that point. I've always been
welcome to hang out near by, though in recent years, we've just
started double-booking, because, as a pre-teen, she doesn't feel the
need for me to be there every minute.

I might check into a regular dentist, if only to have the contrast
with office policies.

Andrea
19W24

tyra beaulieu

i stated that and that is what is recommended. my kids have been going since 1 and they have no cavities, no fear of the dentists and my DENTAL INSURANCE pays for it..in full. plus you can't always see interproximal caries, cavities between teeth, and walking around with a mouth full of decay not only tatses bad, but it hurts, can lead to severe cavities that require root canals, pulpotomies on baby teeth, and even abcesses which are infections!!!! and that REALLY hurts. i want my kids to know how important it is to keep their own teeth not caps, bridges, veneers or God forbid dentures.

jenstarc4 <jenstarc4@...> wrote: --- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@...>
wrote:
>
> >>It is super important that they see the dentist for the first
time no
> later than 2 years of age.<<
>
> Says who?
>

I wonder that too. My oldest daughter didn't see a dentist until she
was 6 or 7. She had a couple of cavities that they filled and a
couple they left to wait until they fell out and were replaced with
good healthy adult teeth. That encompassed 2 visits to the dentist,
one to check and clean, and another to fill the cavities.

Fastforward to now, she just went to the dentist about a month ago,
this would be her third trip to the dentist. No cavities, clean
teeth, probably genetic. She has a couple of teeth that need to come
out because her adult teeth are trying to come in under them. She
said "no way", even though they highly recommended it and I later
explained why they recommended it. She still says "no way". I put
up a sticky note in the bathroom to remind her to wiggle her teeth,
so they can come out soon, before they force her adult teeth to come
in, in places they shouldn't and hopefully avoid braces.

Chamille is 13 and has had a total of 4 cavities, 2 of them were
filled, with a total number of 3 trips to the dentist. I really
don't see how taking her at the age of 1 or 2 would have done
anything but cost me money I didn't have! She hardly had any teeth
at that age anyway.

My 5 yr old has cavities, you can see them. It's from extended
nursing. Sometimes they hurt and sometimes they don't. She doesn't
want to go to the dentist. If they start hurting so much that it
interferes with living happily and eating what she wants, we will go
to the dentist. She absolutely never would've tolerated a dentist at
the age of 2!






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

tyra beaulieu

wow people are really having a hard time with my email about when to go to the dentist. I worked in a pedi/adult dental office for about 4 years and i saw some horrible stuff in peoples mouths, especially kids. the standards for A LOT of things have changed even since my 7 year old was a baby. it is very important to keep updated on all health care related issuse that may affect your children. As far as what is wrong with my sons teeth? if i let it go he would have a mouth like a pug dog, bottom teeth jutting out under his top teeth. this of course could lead to jaw problems making it hard to chew and possibly eroding the jaw bone itself over the long road.most orthodontic work is not purely for "crooked teeth". a lot of the time it is for a bite problem. i had a similar problem and nothing was done until i made the descision to get braces in my 20's. now my jaw bone is flat on one side and chewing anything for too long really hurts i.e gum, caramel etc. As far as what
did people do before.....they were probably in pain just like MANY of the people back when a lot of medical/dental help was in its infancy. many people just walked around with no teeth because they fell out and if you were lucky enough to get them fixed and had the money what did you get...wood, animal bone, cadaver teeth. the internet is a great place to find out what happens to people when they don't take care of their teeth. just look at the pics. they are really gross and it is more common thatn you think.

Gold Standard <jacki@...> wrote: >>It is super important that they see the dentist for the first time no
later than 2 years of age.<<

Says who?

>>It will only be a quick tooth count and simple cleaning but<<

I've been to many different dentist offices, and no one of them seem to be
on the same schedule. I think this is pretty individual, though I know that
in general most of them are following the latest doctrine of the American
Dental Association, which has changed its recommendations many times over
the years.

>>it is sooooo important that their baby teeth are healthy before their
permanent teeth come in.<<

The exact opposite of what the standard recommendation was when my kids were
that age. I was told that their baby teeth would fall out and that their
baby teeth would not influence their second teeth at all. There was not as
much emphasis on dental care for babies at that time, and I don't see any
negative result from that with these kids who are now teenagers and adults.

These recommendations are a good example of blanket "rules" in medicine that
don't individualize for our kids and our situations. Examples of the need to
research and find real and true information. I trust that many intelligent
parents would be able to take good measures for their kids' teeth without a
lot of dentist intervention.

>>My oldest son has a bite misalignment but i
>>would not have known how serious it was had i not brought him in. he has
to see an orthodontist and he's only 7.<<

How serious is it? What would supposedly happen if you didn't know and
didn't do anything?

The world of orthodontics is a curious one to me. What did people do before
it existed? Did their mouths cave in? I have a hard time believing that
there is as much *need* (as in health would deteriorate without it) for
orthodontic work as there are braces on kids. It seems like in many cases
orthodontic work is more a choice (or should be) than helping a serious
health issue. And at the same time, I'm sure there is SOME useful need for
it.

My youngest (13) has very crooked teeth. I've asked him if he was interested
in braces. So far he's said no. Many of his friends have been to the
orthodontist and have been made to wear braces. Some of them didn't seem to
even have crooked teeth. And most of them don't follow the recommendations
for keeping the braces clean and in good shape.

Jacki, who may find out from this post that there is a world of serious
health issues she didn't know about...






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

tyra beaulieu

good for you. that is exactly what i would have done!!!! I sat in on every class when my son wanted to take tap class. he didn't want me to leave so i sat quietly on the floor in the back of the room. i think its important to reassure your kids that you will be there for them when
they need you no matter what the issue is.
tyra

"Robyn L. Coburn" <dezigna@...> wrote:
<<< I'm sure she would've done just fine without me, but the fact is she
> would've kept it all to herself, but really it wouldn't have changed
> the fact that she needed me there. >>>>>

When Jayn first began dancing at 3.5 she was too scared to dance without me
there. The teacher normally doesn't allow spectators - to keep a
non-judgmental atmosphere - but encourages parents to tip toe and peek every
now and then. However she let that go for Jayn's comfort.

She and crying Jayn appeared at her front door, to find me lurking very
nervously outside - I had a feeling Jayn wouldn't last. Then I sat on the
floor of the dance class for the first year. Jayn would run over several
times during the class to get a kissy. Over the course of the seven months
of classes I moved from the floor of the class to the stairwell. I would
bring a book with me.

The second year, again relaxing her usual rule, I waited downstairs in the
teacher's living room during the class (a huge improvement in my comfort).

Now having just completed her fourth year of dancing, Jayn is completely
comfortable, and I can even go off on errands during the class.

When one of the dental surgeons we visited threatened Jayn that she would
send dh and I out if Jayn didn't open her mouth and sit quietly, James and I
were horrified. The ds clearly assumed that we would back up that play, but
Jayn was terrified, and we all left instead. Lucky for us she is not one to
suppress her own feelings!

Robyn L. Coburn






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alexandriapalonia

I think many people were like me: I was unable to eat an orange before
orthodontics. When I bit down, only two of my teeth touched, and they
weren't two that were supposed to.
Because of the way I was chewing (to get the teeth to connect--and
still, I remember sitting at the table for HOURS after everyone else
had finished, chewing and chewing and chewing on something simple like
a chicken leg), because of that, I had huge problems with TMJ, and
chronic headaches.

The problem with orthodontics of that time period is that the work
that was done dramatically reduced the lengh of the roots of the
teeth, so many of us are at risk for other problems. I had an
extremely progressive orthodontist, who didn't do extractions (which
has always puzzled me, until the hygenist pointed out the other day
that it's now considered generally unethical), and who capitalized on
my 14yo vanity by showing before-and-after shots of what teeth that
aren't cared for look like.

Consequently, I am able to eat chicken and oranges, have a nice smile,
and very few cavities (all pre-orthodontics).
I think if orthodontia didn't exist, I'd likely be a vegan, and still
have tremendous headaches.

It is my opinion that establishing good dental habits very early in
life is an extraordinary gift to give your child(ren). Even if they
choose to let it slide later, you can contribute to a joyful and
peaceful childhood by helping assure that dental visits are pain and
anxiety free.

Andrea


> The world of orthodontics is a curious one to me. What did people do
before> it existed? Did their mouths cave in? I have a hard time
believing that> there is as much *need* (as in health would
deteriorate without it) for> orthodontic work as there are braces on
kids. It seems like in many cases> orthodontic work is more a choice
(or should be) than helping a serious> health issue. And at the same
time, I'm sure there is SOME useful need for> it.
>
> My youngest (13) has very crooked teeth. I've asked him if he was
interested> in braces. So far he's said no. Many of his friends have
been to the> orthodontist and have been made to wear braces. Some of
them didn't seem to> even have crooked teeth. And most of them don't
follow the recommendations> for keeping the braces clean and in good
shape.
>
> Jacki, who may find out from this post that there is a world of
serious> health issues she didn't know about...
>

Mary Draper

-=-I think if orthodontia didn't exist, I'd likely be a vegan, and still
have tremendous headaches.-=-



I had braces. Years later, I chose to be vegan. I don't understand why you
mentioned the likelihood of being vegan if orthodontia didn't exist. Are
you suggesting vegans don't eat a variety of foods that require chewing?



Mary



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