Melody Flurry

I would appreciate any advice in regard to the best way to handle the situation of spouses who don't agree on gaming issues. While I am not in the least bothered by my son's interest in computer games, my husband constantly tells me that he thinks our son spends too much time on the computer. Sometimes my son will play for a long time, other days he doesn't play at all. Sometimes he will play for awhile and then get out his Lego's and try to build the characters on the game.

I consider everything he chooses to do to be a learning experience. I have done research to try and help my husband see gaming in a positive light--that it isn't addictive or harmful, etc.--but all of this seems to fall on deaf ears. I felt that maybe it was more of a physical activity issue, so I agreed to come up with a fun physical activity for the kids to do every day.

My question relates more to the issue of how to persuade a spouse to see things from a different perspective in regard to unschooling than just to the issue of gaming. I use gaming as an example, because it seems to be the only unschooling issue that my husband and I argue about.

Any thoughts are appreciated--I'm willing to look at things from all perspectives!

Melody :-)


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I have always had issues myself with gaming.We have five computers all
networked together and my 4(now 3) kids will spend days on the computer
playing World of Warcraft.I dont get it and do worry, but I also see so
much that has come from it too.First off my five year old learned to
read playing these online games.His interest in the game World of
Warcraft(he's a level 37 Paladin) sparked his interest in getting the
graphic novels and reading all three cover to cover.Now his most recent
love is Guitar Hero 2.He plays on easy right now but can get through the
hardest song.He is spending hours doing this.I love that he will focus
so hard on something he wants so bad.How many small kids will spend sooo
much focused time trying to accomplish something that is so hard to do?
Failure doesnt stop him, he just keeps trying till he is as good as he
is happy with.Do I need to mention his eyehand coordination as well as
his typing skills?
Gaming is hard work.They have to focus, they have to learn to keep
trying time after time till they beat the area or game.Its frustrating
but they just keep at it.I think they call it perserverence.That in
itself is amazing to me.

Now let me mention my now 19yo.He spent his whole 4years of highschool
gaming.He worked parttime, and played computer or PS2 on his time off.He
also drew anime and watched lots of movies.Then he finally got bored
with it and started pacing the house wondering what to do with his
life.He wanted to take an art class in Denver and we sent him to live
with his Auntie so he could.He ended up taking 6 college classes so he
could get the 15 credits he needed to join the Marines.He made all A's
and B's and these were hard classes he took with only a "6th grade
education".Now he just graduated MCRD and is on his way to the School of
Infantry in San Diego.BTW he scored a 97 on his last written test in
bootcamp.Basically he got what he wanted even though he "wasted" most
his life playing video games...Most people may not see joining the
Marines as a good life choice but this kid has been talking about being
a "soldier" since he was 3yrs old.
Im just giving you some of my experience.I do try and find physical
things for them to do each day, like go to the lake or play frisbee with
the dogs.My 13yo wants to start a dog walking business that we are now
trying figure out since the weather is starting to get better.Im hoping
that this will work out, but I still dont make any rules about time on
the computer.
I guess if they were playing legos for hours and hours and days on end
that would be more acceptable?What about reading novels for hours on
end, day after day? I dont know if gaming is bad or not but it hasnt
hurt my kids in any real tangible way so I say let them play...

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 10:55:13 -0700 (PDT), "Melody Flurry"
<imagine1harmony@...> said:
> I would appreciate any advice in regard to the best way to handle the
> situation of spouses who don't agree on gaming issues. While I am not in
> the least bothered by my son's interest in computer games, my husband
> constantly tells me that he thinks our son spends too much time on the
> computer. Sometimes my son will play for a long time, other days he
> doesn't play at all. Sometimes he will play for awhile and then get out
> his Lego's and try to build the characters on the game.
>
> I consider everything he chooses to do to be a learning experience. I
> have done research to try and help my husband see gaming in a positive
> light--that it isn't addictive or harmful, etc.--but all of this seems
> to fall on deaf ears. I felt that maybe it was more of a physical
> activity issue, so I agreed to come up with a fun physical activity for
> the kids to do every day.
>
> My question relates more to the issue of how to persuade a spouse to
> see things from a different perspective in regard to unschooling than
> just to the issue of gaming. I use gaming as an example, because it
> seems to be the only unschooling issue that my husband and I argue
> about.
>
> Any thoughts are appreciated--I'm willing to look at things from all
> perspectives!
>
> Melody :-)
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 15, 2007, at 7:38 AM, cece4@... wrote:

> I guess if they were playing legos for hours and hours and days on end
> that would be more acceptable?What about reading novels for hours on
> end, day after day? I dont know if gaming is bad or not but it hasnt
> hurt my kids in any real tangible way so I say let them play...

I think if it was anything else besides tv or videogames, people
would look at the whole kid, not just at the activity they're engaged
in, and consider whether the kid is doing okay or not. What I mean
is, watching hours and hours and hours of tv or playing hours and
hours and hours of videogames could possibly be a sign of depression,
but it usually is not. Those are activities that can conveniently be
used to sort of occupy one's mind and avoid thinking about things we
don't want to think about - a way to avoid feeling sad or scared or
angry. I think many of us have used these activities in this way, a
bit, here and there, so we kind of know that it is possible. Reading
and eating are other things people can use this way, sometimes, too.
(And, yes, many of us WERE told, as kids, to "Put down that book and
go out and play.")

Anyway, I think parents are concerned that tv and videogaming can be
a form of avoidance of life or lead to avoiding other parts of life,
and I don't think that concern is completely unfounded. If I had a
kid who started watching tv for seven or eight hours per day, I would
pay some attention to what else was going on with that kid and I'd
pay attention to how the child was interacting with the tv shows.
Rosie, my 16 yo, just finished watching all eight seasons of "The
West Wing." There was no avoidance of life happening there - it was
that she was LOVING the show and part of what was so enjoyable for
her was how much she was learning. She watched many episodes over and
over and she asked questions and googled things, because there was a
lot she didn't understand, at first. It has been really obvious that
we had absolutely no reason to worry about her tv watching. This has
been a pattern for her - to get really into a certain show or two and
watch and watch and watch it. For a long time it was Roseanne and The
Cosby Show - she analyzed and analyzed the behaviors in those two
families and our family has had many conversations about those family
dynamics. It has been an ongoing study of marriage and parenthood -
college courses in the sociology of families couldn't come close to
offering the amount of learning that we've experienced through
Roseanne and The Cosby Show. English courses in writing "Compare and
Contrast" essays couldn't have offered the kind of development of
critical thinking that comparing and contrasting Roseanne and The
Cosby Show offered.

Kids who are healthy and happy, who have lots going on in their
lives, who enjoy their lives, who have good, strong relationships
with their parents, are not at risk, imo, for excessively watching tv
or playing videogames as a form of avoidance. The difference is
whether they are choosing to do something (watch shows/play games)
versus using tv and gaming to avoid something else.

Parents can tell the difference IF they can shake themselves loose of
the fear created by writers such as Marie Winn, auther of "The Plug-
In Drug." Here is the publishers description of that book:

"In The Plug-In Drug, Marie Winn demonstrates "with devastating
persuasiveness" (The Washington Post) that television has a negative
impact on child development, school achievement, and family life. But
rather than focusing on program improvement as a solution, Winn
proposes that the problem lies within the seductive act of TV
watching itself. Extensive TV watching alters children's relations
with the real world, depriving them of far more valuable real life
experiences, especially playing and reading. Ever sympathetic to
parents' need for relief, Winn proposes ways to control this
addictive medium and live with it successfully. This 25th anniversary
edition addresses the variety of new electronic media that have
supplemented television in the home and increased children's bondage
to screen experiences. "

This is sensationalist fear-mongering. It isn't a thoughtful look at
what can help parents look at their real whole child. It assumes from
the start that these things that children love (watching tv and
playing videogames) are negative. It never considers the benefits of
supporting a child's interest, engaging with the child in the
activities the child loves best. It also doesn't consider the longer-
term impact on children who are reminded regularly that what THEY
like to do is bad for them - how can these children not get the
message, loud and clear, that pursuing their own interests is a bad
thing to do?

My college classes are filled to capacity with young people who are
extremely out of touch with their own interests, passions, aptitudes,
etc. Ask them what do they want to do - they frequently say, "Get a
good job." That's as far as they can think. They don't have any
interest they want to pursue - they don't trust themselves to have
such interests. If they DO have an interest, they don't even consider
it as a possible career. Last semeseter, I had a student who was
majoring in "Business Management" (many of my students are majoring
in business of some kind or another, because I teach economics). I
complimented her on a purse/bag that she was carrying and she told me
she'd made it herself. I said I loved it and would love to have a
similar one, wondered how much she'd charge to make me one. Turns out
she WAS making them for friends and sometimes selling one here and
there. She designed them herself. She'd also designed some clothing.
Loved it. I asked her why she didn't pursue fashion design and she
had no answer, just hadn't really considered it. I got some
information for her about the Fashion Institute of Design and
Merchandising in Los Angeles and a few months later she emailed me
and she's been accepted to start there in the fall.

How is this related to tv and videogames? I honestly think that it is
ALL about parents not being really engaged and in touch with their
own kids and not trusting themselves to really know their kids better
than some author or journalist or even scientist who studies groups
of kids. Conventional wisdom is extremely distrustful of children and
one aspect of that is being sure that adults know better than kids
what they ought to do with their time. But you can't grow up with
someone else always in charge of what you do with yourself and
constantly reminding you that you can't trust your OWN interests, and
then, suddenly, at 18, know yourself and be able to think about what
you want to do with your time. I've seen kid after kid after kid who
automatically dismisses the idea of pursuing anything they are
actually interested in - they have deep inner belief that it must not
be worth pursuing if they are interested in it.

I want to encourage parents of younger children to think with a
longer-term perspective --- think (for yourself) about what long-term
message you're giving your child now. If you say, "You'd like to play
videogames for 6 hours a day, but that's not good for you so I'm
restricting you to 2 hours per day," then what might the kid be
hearing from that? How about this? "What I really LOVE to do and want
to do a lot is bad for me and it would be better if I didn't do it at
all, but I'm weak and can't resist so i'll do just a little and feel
a little ashamed when I do it." Yikes! Is that what we want running
through our kids' minds all the time? How will that sentiment play
out when it is STILL running through their minds when they are 18
years old?

-pam
My Relay for Life walk is next weekend, so if you'd like to help me
fight cancer, go to my webpage now!
http://www.acsevents.org/relay/ca/longbeach/pamsoroosh




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beanmommy2

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:

Pam,

I thought this whole post was great!


> Anyway, I think parents are concerned that tv and videogaming can
be
> a form of avoidance of life or lead to avoiding other parts of
life,
> and I don't think that concern is completely unfounded.

I have a relative who is homeschooled (not unschooled, and who often
says he hates his schoolwork and hates reading) and once I asked him
what he was up to. Maybe he was trying to be funny, but his reply
was, "Playing video games as much as I can. Everything else in my
life is a total waste." I thought that was sad.


> Parents can tell the difference IF they can shake themselves loose
of
> the fear created by writers such as Marie Winn, auther of "The Plug-

> In Drug."

This will sound funny, but I actually love that book and have read it
several times. What blows my mind the more I read it is that all the
quotes and interviews from the family seem SO obvious that the family
is disconnected, there's nothing very interesting or fun that the
family is offering, and the parents aren't really spending time with
the kids ... so then the kids go watch TV, then it's, "Oh isn't it
horrible that TV is making them act this way?" It's sort of
fascinating, really, to read the parents' accounts of everything and
how blind they seem to the bigger picture.



> My college classes are filled to capacity with young people who
are
> extremely out of touch with their own interests, passions,
aptitudes,
> etc. Ask them what do they want to do - they frequently say, "Get
a
> good job." That's as far as they can think. They don't have any
> interest they want to pursue - they don't trust themselves to have
> such interests. If they DO have an interest, they don't even
consider
> it as a possible career.

I have never understood this, even years before I heard of
unschooling. I used to teach middle school, and once I gave a journal
prompt that was something like, "What job would you like to have when
you're older?" A few boys, as soon as they read it, said to me,
almost emotionlessly, "Well, what job makes a lot of money? That's
what I'll be." They were completely serious.

I have a relative who went to college and majored in Business,
immediately didn't like it, but "didn't know what else to do" so she
didn't change her major. That is so strange to me, and I suspect it's
not unusual.

I was a music major in college. I've actually had one or two parents
tell me that their child will NOT be allowed to major in music. (One
person even had a list: her twelve year old was told she could not
major in music, or English, or art ...). Not only is that rude to
their kids, and a crummy attitude, but I think it's also kind of
insulting to me!

Jenny

Sandra Dodd

-=-This will sound funny, but I actually love that book and have read it
several times. What blows my mind the more I read it is that all the
quotes and interviews from the family seem SO obvious that the family
is disconnected, there's nothing very interesting or fun that the
family is offering, and the parents aren't really spending time with
the kids ... so then the kids go watch TV, then it's, "Oh isn't it
horrible that TV is making them act this way?" It's sort of
fascinating, really, to read the parents' accounts of everything and
how blind they seem to the bigger picture.-=-

So are you saying you like it like a train wreck? Train wrecks can
be fascinating (if only nobody got hurt...)

Sandra

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beanmommy2

> -=-This will sound funny, but I actually love that book and have
read it
> several times. What blows my mind the more I read it is that all the
> quotes and interviews from the family seem SO obvious that the
family
> is disconnected, there's nothing very interesting or fun that the
> family is offering, and the parents aren't really spending time with
> the kids ... so then the kids go watch TV, then it's, "Oh isn't it
> horrible that TV is making them act this way?" It's sort of
> fascinating, really, to read the parents' accounts of everything and
> how blind they seem to the bigger picture.-=-


> So are you saying you like it like a train wreck? Train wrecks
can
> be fascinating (if only nobody got hurt...)


Hm, well, I guess ...

Actually my enjoyment of it has evolved over the years. I first read
it seven years ago and DID have the "TV is bad" mentality. A lot of
it stemmed from not liking the way TV was used in my house when I was
growing up, and "blaming" it on the TV itself.

As I re-read it over the years, though, and realized it
wasn't "shameful" to enjoy TV (nor would it make me like my parents),
I still liked the book, but more as a sort of social
commentary, "signs of the times" kind of way.

For me, it's more like "this is what a lot of American families are
like and how they think" as opposed to being a book about TV being
bad.

Jenny