Tina Bragdon

Sandra (and anyone elses interpretation too) I am wondering if you
can explain your quote near the bottom of your strewing page
http://www.sandradodd.com/strew/how near the bottom of the page
(sorry I don't know how to cut and paste!) for me. You talk about
bringing things into the house if you feel there is not enough
exposure or if your kids could use something to become more well
rounded, etc.

I have often wondered about this. I find that I have grasped the
concept of "em-biggening" (another great term on your site, lol!) and
can follow what my kids are interested in and expand on that. For
example, dd is interested very much in animals, somehow over the
years just letting it carry us where it will it has led to
maps/geography, planets, outer space, microorganisms, anatomy, etc.
This is all coming up just by answering her questions, looking
something up, bringing something home, seeing something and thinking
they would find this neat,etc

What I am wondering about, in light of your quote, for me personally,
is in areas like math where I know my dd has a grasp of the meaning
of numbers, quantity, logical thinking etc but who I know would be
weak in the computational areas of math as I see it on my provinces
scope and sequence for grade one/two. Soooo...do I consider
her "less rounded" and go buy Math U see (because dd is very hands
on/visual)like so many of my homeschooling friends do, or make sure
to fit Monopoly Jr. (which we have) in our day so that she can get
adding practice, because there is not enough of that "type" of math
in the house? I feel anxious because one part of me feels like this
is so artificial and fake and forced to sit down with my "Marshmallow
Math" book to "play a game" with her to get math in on the sly...like
if I don't do "this" she won't get "this", KWIM? So, other than what
has naturally come up in real life, un-pre-planned and on the fly,
like showing her how pennies or dimes can make up a quarter, etc b/c
she asked one day when playing with her money collection, I have been
anxious about this issue and have left it alone....I have things like
the "Family Math Book for Young Children" but I can't bring myself to
do any of it with her....all of that stuff feels so out of context
with real life...why would she want to know if she had six
marshmallows and took 3 away what she would have left? I see her
friends learning to add things like 23+6 and it scares me that what
if she is 15 and still has to count on her fingers? (OK, maybe not
that drastic!) It has to do alot with how I was taught math in the
70's...all the memorization of flash cards, addition facts, (so I
could INSTANTLY recall what 5+8 is and not use a calculator) without
really grasping what it meant

In light of your quote Sandra, when does it become forced and a "math
lesson" or a "reading lesson" ? Do I just try, and if it intrigues
her keep going, and drop it if it does not?

Thank you for your reply, I have been really wondering what you meant
by this quote, and would love some examples from your own family and
your thoughts on where things Do cross the line to manipulation. I
know deep down it comes to trusting that
she will get the math she needs in her real life when she needs it,
just like I see her now starting to read in leaps and bounds and
write because it is in situations it is meaningful to her,
but I am just finding that not comparing her to her peers instead
of her to herself and what she knows now compared to a few years ago
very difficult.

Tina, dp James, dd Stephanie (almost 7) and ds Jonathan (almost 4)
here in Manitoba Canada.

Nancy Wooton

On Feb 12, 2007, at 4:42 AM, Tina Bragdon wrote:

> I find that I have grasped the
> concept of "em-biggening"

Here's a little game: How many of you new unschoolers can place that
term (though I believe Sandra has conjugated it from the original
"embiggens")? Btw, I have not read the webpage being referenced,
although my house could certainly be described as "strewn."

;-) Nancy

Sandra Dodd

-=-Soooo...do I consider
her "less rounded" and go buy Math U see (because dd is very hands
on/visual)like so many of my homeschooling friends do, or make sure
to fit Monopoly Jr. (which we have) in our day so that she can get
adding practice, because there is not enough of that "type" of math
in the house? I feel anxious because one part of me feels like this
is so artificial and fake and forced to sit down with my "Marshmallow
Math" book to "play a game" with her to get math in on the sly...like
if I don't do "this" she won't get "this", KWIM?-=-

http://sandradodd.com/balance

I think that article on balance will help.

You're looking at two extremes and ignoring the middle, I think.

"make sure to fit Monopoly Jr. in our day" sounds pretty extreme.

If someone has a math based game (we used to play Bazaar a lot;
later, Five Crowns), if they play it because it's time for a math
lesson that day, that's not good. If they refuse to play it because
it is math based, that's worse.

Play it because it's fun.

If a house has not a single map, globe or photo of a foreign place or
of anything historical, that's quite a lack of opportunity for a
child who could use some natural, everyday exposure to geography and
history. If the parents "don't like" geography or history, why might
that be?

If the parents just want their house to look hotel-room clean, they
need to put their kids in school.

If there is NO written word in the house, that's as bad as if parents
force reading.

Balance.

-=- it scares me.... It has to do alot with how I was taught math in
the
70's...all the memorization of flash cards, addition facts, (so I
could INSTANTLY recall what 5+8 is and not use a calculator) without
really grasping what it meant-=-

And here you are all agitated and nervous and scared.
Breathe. Let it go.

Don't put it on your child, and also don't avoid mathish input
because of your own history.

-=In light of your quote Sandra, when does it become forced and a "math
lesson" or a "reading lesson" ? Do I just try, and if it intrigues
her keep going, and drop it if it does not? -=-

Those aren't the only two questions, to do nothing or have a lesson.
Too extreme.

Read this again if you've already read it once:
http://sandradodd.com/balance

-=-I have been really wondering what you meant
by this quote, and would love some examples from your own family-=-

I'm just going to say it: holy crap.

There are examples enough to keep you reading for a solid week here,
if you follow all the provided links
http://sandradodd.com/day/presidents (a typical day, on the busy end)
http://sandradodd.com/articles
http://sandradodd.com/life
http://sandradodd.com/connections

-=-I
know deep down it comes to trusting that
she will get the math she needs in her real life when she needs it, -=-

It doesn't take knowing deep down what it takes.
It takes trusting deep down.

Sandra







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Tina Bragdon"
<jamesandtina942@...> wrote:
>> in areas like math where I know my dd has a grasp of the meaning
> of numbers, quantity, logical thinking etc but who I know would be
> weak in the computational areas of math as I see it on my
provinces
> scope and sequence for grade one/two.

Do you mean you're worried that your dd isn't doing what's listed on
the scope-and-sequence or that you aren't sure how to report what
she is learning to meet requirements?

If you are just using the scope-n-sequence as a guide or checklist
then its important to know that those are created for the purpose of
teaching and don't really relate to how people learn organically. A
lot of that has to do with individual learning styles, but generally
speaking, people don't learn math in the sort-of sequential way its
usually taught. Here's a site you might find useful:

http://www.livingmath.net/Home/tabid/250/Default.aspx

> Soooo...do I consider
> her "less rounded" and go buy Math U see (because dd is very hands
> on/visual)like so many of my homeschooling friends do, or make
sure
> to fit Monopoly Jr. (which we have) in our day so that she can get
> adding practice

I bought some math manipulatives a few years ago. I wish I'd spent
the money on more legos, instead. If your dd has lots of
opportunites to build, mix, pour, measure, sort, count, arrange,
predict and decide then she doesn't need specific toys or games. If
she wants to play Monopoly or Battleship or Dominoes, do it bc its
fun, not bc of the "learning potential" -especially if *you* have
issues about math.

> your thoughts on where things Do cross the line to manipulation.

Are you focusing on an outcome? That the "line" from my perspective.
If you are doing something with your kid bc its fun and you enjoy
each others' company - great. When you impose expectations that the
child is going to learn something, you close yourself off to having
a genuine interaction. You also narrow your own perception to the
point that you miss a great deal of what your child is really
experiencing and learning. For example, if you are making cookies
and *you* are thinking "aha! she's learning about meansurement!" you
might miss or disregard the way she explores the texture of the
dough.

> I see her
> friends learning to add things like 23+6 and it scares me that
what
> if she is 15 and still has to count on her fingers?

Would that be a tragedy? I have a friend who is a CPA who counts on
her fingers. Anything bigger, she uses a calculator. She almost
never tries to figure in her head - certainly not when she's working.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)