terryyoesting

Hi

Still a newbi but learning so much. Thanks to everyone.
I have a question. My dd will be 5 next month. I am in transition
about learning vs exploring. In the past I would try to teach my
ds. I'm still confused by some things so this question is for
clarification. While my daughter was playing in the bathtub. She
created an ocean with multiple boats (bowls) with people, etc... She
is having a great time. Anyway she put one of the bowls upside down
and created an air pocket. She told me she made an air dome like
Sandy lives in (spongebob). it was great. i then told her it also
looked like what we saw on pirates of the caribean when captain jack
sparrow walks under water holding a boat over his head.
this allowed him to breath while being underwater.

Should I have given this extra piece of information (she did not ask
for it). She thought it was interesting. Didn't remember the scene
and wants us to watch it when she gets out of the ocean.

Anyway, it has occurred to me that this is not the first time I have
done this. When a thought pops into my head like this how do I know
when to suppress it (not share it) or when it is ok to share.

Thanks
Terry

Angela Shaw

<Anyway, it has occurred to me that this is not the first time I have
done this. When a thought pops into my head like this how do I know
when to suppress it (not share it) or when it is ok to share>



When she doesn't seem interested in what you have to share, its time to
stop. Would you share that information with another adult if you were in
the same conversation?







Angela Shaw

game-enthusiast@...

Life is Good!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

magenta_mum

--- In [email protected], "terryyoesting"
<terryyoesting@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Still a newbi but learning so much. Thanks to everyone.
> I have a question. My dd will be 5 next month. I am in transition
> about learning vs exploring. In the past I would try to teach my
> ds. I'm still confused by some things so this question is for
> clarification. While my daughter was playing in the bathtub. She
> created an ocean with multiple boats (bowls) with people, etc... She
> is having a great time. Anyway she put one of the bowls upside down
> and created an air pocket. She told me she made an air dome like
> Sandy lives in (spongebob). it was great. i then told her it also
> looked like what we saw on pirates of the caribean when captain jack
> sparrow walks under water holding a boat over his head.
> this allowed him to breath while being underwater.
>
> Should I have given this extra piece of information (she did not ask
> for it). She thought it was interesting. Didn't remember the scene
> and wants us to watch it when she gets out of the ocean.
>
> Anyway, it has occurred to me that this is not the first time I have
> done this. When a thought pops into my head like this how do I know
> when to suppress it (not share it) or when it is ok to share.
>
> Thanks
> Terry
>

To me, this is learning by exploring, and is ideal. I wonder if where
you said learning vs exploring up there, you meant teaching vs
exploring, or teaching vs learning? Unschooling is not about no input
at all from you. It's quite far from that.

Sharing connections that pop into your head is almost always good,
especially when that leads you all on to more exploring, and
connecting relationship-wise, like rewatching that movie together.

If your relationship with your child(ren) is an open, honest,
respectful one, they will let you know if and when you're oversaying
or overstepping or piling information beyond their current need or
interest. Ideally, parents are or become sensitive enough to their
child(ren), know them well enough, to know when we might be going
overboard or being pushy if we're aware we're that way inclined. It's
possible, too, to actually check with your children. Ask them if
you're feeling unsure, which helps them know that it's okay to say no,
thanks if you're over-offering.

Jo R

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "terryyoesting"
<terryyoesting@...> wrote:
>> Should I have given this extra piece of information (she did not
ask
> for it). She thought it was interesting.

Sharing information is probably something you'd do with a friend or
your partner, right? And most likely you'd use their reaction to
gauge whether what you said was appropriate or interesting to that
person in that moment. It is possible to have that kind of
information sharing with kids, too, even young kids, without turning
the whole thing into a "teachable moment" (blech!).

My 5yr old is facinated by "yucky stuff" and also loves to know what
things are made of - sometimes she asks, other times I offer her
information, thinking she'll be interested. I try not to have any
*expectations* about what she'll "do" with the information, and I
think that's a big part of the difference between "sharing"
and "teaching". If I'm sharing something I'm interested mainly in my
connection with the other person. If I'm teaching, I'm invested in
some outcome separate from that connection.

My 13yr old stepson *isn't* interested in the same kinds of "yucky
stuff" that Mo is. I forget that, sometimes, and throw out pieces of
information that he really doesn't want - how cheese is made, for
example. Mo loves the fact that rennet is made of stomach lining,
Ray would rather I had never offered him that little snippet of
information. Oops. I try to be sensitive to that and *not* share
things that will gross him out (unless he asks - sometimes he's
willing to be grossed out) because that would undermine our
relationship.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

Sandra Dodd

-=-
Should I have given this extra piece of information (she did not ask
for it). She thought it was interesting. Didn't remember the scene
and wants us to watch it when she gets out of the ocean.-=-

Would you have mentioned it to a friend or your husband?
Would you have liked it if someone had reminded you?
Would you have said it to someone who had never had a chance to play
with water before?

I think when something is interesting and conversational and part of
the flow of thinking between two people, it HAS to be said. <bwg>

-=-Anyway, it has occurred to me that this is not the first time I have
done this. When a thought pops into my head like this how do I know
when to suppress it (not share it) or when it is ok to share.-=-

It helps me to think two steps past, in one way or another.
Will it continue the conversation or kill it?
Will it make the person think?
Will it make them feel better?


You can't always have all those at the same time. <g> Sometimes the
statement a 'Yeah, but did you think of this?" and it might not make
them joyful right at that second, but could easily prevent a wad of
frustration or disappointment an hour or a week down the road.

I love talking with my friends about what does and doesn't work. I
scientifically (side by side <g>) tested things I already had to melt
ice in front of our garage. I put Epsom salts on one side, and kitty
litter on the other. Neither is "the right thing."

Epsom salts worked better, and I figured that after the snow all
melted the kitty litter could clean oil spots on the driveway. WRONG
on that one. The kitty litter absorbed water and now it's nasty
muddy stuff that I tracked into the house I had just vacuumed. But
it was interseting to discuss it with Keith,and I learned something. <G>

Today I learned how to melt wax in the microwave. I put water in
with it. It would be hard to impossible to separate that again
without letting the wax harden (at least hard enough to pick up, at
which point it's not melted anymore) but I wanted to pour wax on some
wood chip and bark junk to use for starting fires in the hot tub. So
I poured the wax and water both over it, and the water will...
evaporate is my first thought, but it's freezing outside. <g> Holly
will care and Keith will care, because we've melted wax before and
talked about hows and whys.

If it's interesting and the person cares, keep talking about it. If
the other person doesn't seem interested, quit.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Therese Franklin

I also have similar questions, having very young kids. I think you did a
great job offering information as it seemed appropriate.



OT: I love that movie. My husband is always pointing out the "Ya right!"
factors in movies- and in the boat underwater scene, my husband says Ya
right! That couldn't really be done because they wouldn't have had enough
strength to hold the boat under water like that. They would float up he
says. But I remind him technically it could happen if they were weighted
down somehow! :-)





_____

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of terryyoesting
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:06 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Giving information



Hi

Still a newbi but learning so much. Thanks to everyone.
I have a question. My dd will be 5 next month. I am in transition
about learning vs exploring. In the past I would try to teach my
ds. I'm still confused by some things so this question is for
clarification. While my daughter was playing in the bathtub. She
created an ocean with multiple boats (bowls) with people, etc... She
is having a great time. Anyway she put one of the bowls upside down
and created an air pocket. She told me she made an air dome like
Sandy lives in (spongebob). it was great. i then told her it also
looked like what we saw on pirates of the caribean when captain jack
sparrow walks under water holding a boat over his head.
this allowed him to breath while being underwater.

Should I have given this extra piece of information (she did not ask
for it). She thought it was interesting. Didn't remember the scene
and wants us to watch it when she gets out of the ocean.

Anyway, it has occurred to me that this is not the first time I have
done this. When a thought pops into my head like this how do I know
when to suppress it (not share it) or when it is ok to share.

Thanks
Terry





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jan 25, 2007, at 9:05 AM, terryyoesting wrote:

> Anyway, it has occurred to me that this is not the first time I have
> done this. When a thought pops into my head like this how do I know
> when to suppress it (not share it) or when it is ok to share.

Yikes. Not sure where you got the idea that you should not share
interesting stuff with your kids!

Watch your child - if you're boring him/her, you'll know it by their
apparent lack of interest.

-pam

Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

diana jenner

On 1/26/07, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> I love talking with my friends about what does and doesn't work. I
> scientifically (side by side <g>) tested things I already had to melt
> ice in front of our garage. I put Epsom salts on one side, and kitty
> litter on the other. Neither is "the right thing."
>
> Epsom salts worked better, and I figured that after the snow all
> melted the kitty litter could clean oil spots on the driveway. WRONG
> on that one. The kitty litter absorbed water and now it's nasty
> muddy stuff that I tracked into the house I had just vacuumed. But
> it was interseting to discuss it with Keith,and I learned something. <G>
>












***A tip from snow country :) We use kitty litter to give us traction on
the ice, not to melt or absorb it.
Didja try just regular old table salt? It spreads out better than the Epsom
Salt chunks ;)

--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

terryyoesting

Thanks for all the information. *conversation* what an interesting
concept. LOL

Of course. its so simple. i overlooked it.


> Yikes. Not sure where you got the idea that you should not share
> interesting stuff with your kids!


No one gave me this idea *bwg*
I'm doing exactly what I did when I got married to my husband. Being a
wife was so foreign to me that I completely lost my common sense! But
it did come back.

> Watch your child - if you're boring him/her, you'll know it by their
> apparent lack of interest.

Of course this is exactly what I would do with anyone else. And I do
do it with my children. But then this little voice pops in my head and
questions me... and then I start doubting myself. But everyone is
correct, I was sharing a conversation with my dd. And I do stop
talking about it if she is not interested, just like I do with anyone
else.

After I made the post, I read more on www.sandradodd.com site. It is
so helpful. And reading the archieves here helps so much.

Thanks for all your experience.
Terry

Robyn L Coburn

<<<<< Should I have given this extra piece of information (she did not ask
for it). She thought it was interesting. Didn't remember the scene
and wants us to watch it when she gets out of the ocean.

Anyway, it has occurred to me that this is not the first time I have
done this. When a thought pops into my head like this how do I know
when to suppress it (not share it) or when it is ok to share. >>>>

I think the answer is "It Depends" - again.

Obviously this time worked very well since the child was interested and
responded well. If the response had been any kind of blanking, irritation or
saying any variation of "I don't want to hear about that" then presumably
you would stop talking.

Jayn (7) says "I don't want to know about that" or "Don't tell me" pretty
darn clearly at times. I have learnt to ask her if she wants to hear more
about something. I will say something like, "I know something about ..." or
"That reminds me of something. Do you want me to tell you about it?"

In her particular case she will say "yes" I'm guesstimating probably about
half the time. (Time for me to make a note of these occurrences so that I
can speak with more certainty.) Just to clarify this is in the absence of
Jayn asking questions (which I always answer until I see that she is
satisfied).

There have been some times when I have been really glad that I did NOT say
anything, because I would have deprived Jayn of a wonderful moment of
connection and self-discovery. There have been many times when she has taken
something that I mentioned briefly and gone even further with it. To use
your example as an analogy, Jayn and I would watch the movie I remembered,
and then she might remember another movie herself, or a time at the
aquarium, or some other thing that happened at the beach or.....

I think it is a question of receptivity, and also how likely the child would
be to come across the information herself in the continuing course of her
play. Jayn delights me with her ability to notice and express connections.

It is also a question of intention.

Mine is never to make sure Jayn knows something or other. It is always to
enhance her experience and our relationship. Therefore if I am offering her
some information it is in order to let her know I support or share her
interest - even if it is something as ephemeral as air bubbles in the water.

Robyn L. Coburn

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11:11 AM

Sandra Dodd

-=After I made the post, I read more on www.sandradodd.com site. It is
so helpful. -=-

Good. Thanks for the kind words. Sometimes I wonder if people read
it. And sometimes I make a page and forget about it.

Here are some that might help with ideas about conversations:

http://sandradodd.com/truck
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/nest
http://sandradodd.com/learning
http://sandradodd.com/strew/how

Sandra

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Kim H

<<<Sometimes I wonder if people read
it. And sometimes I make a page and forget about it.>>>

Oh they read it alright! There are so many people over here (Australia), Sandra, who read your wonderful articles. We even use them as discussion focuses and points of reference for our unschooling groups.

You are very much loved and well read in our neck of the woods!

Kim

PS You're even on our 'must read lists' we give to new unschoolers!



----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Giving information


-=After I made the post, I read more on www.sandradodd.com site. It is
so helpful. -=-

Good. Thanks for the kind words. Sometimes I wonder if people read
it. And sometimes I make a page and forget about it.

Here are some that might help with ideas about conversations:

http://sandradodd.com/truck
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/nest
http://sandradodd.com/learning
http://sandradodd.com/strew/how

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

magenta_mum

--- In [email protected], "Kim H" <kimlewismark@...> wrote:
>
> <<<Sometimes I wonder if people read
> it. And sometimes I make a page and forget about it.>>>
>
> Oh they read it alright! There are so many people over here
(Australia), Sandra, who read your wonderful articles.
>
> You are very much loved and well read in our neck of the woods!
>
> Kim


I read you too, Sandra, (and Joyce and lots of other sites and blogs)
even though I feel fairly comfortable and practised as a mindful
parent, who then came to actual RU further along our journey. I
discovered you 2.5 yrs before K came out of school, during the first
time she seriously considered leaving which had prompted me to first
begin to research what we needed to do legally here, and how we would
go about the 'educational' side of things.

Seeing as I just read in the sex pages about the criticism you get for
sharing so much of your children's lives with others, I do want to say
that I don't feel critical of you for that at all. I sometimes wish my
child were more comfortable with me sharing more of our life when it
can be so very helpful and enlightening to do so.

I thank Kirby, Marty and Holly too, for their willingnes to give of
themselves as they do, as you do, Sandra.

Jo R

Sandra Dodd

-=-Oh they read it alright! There are so many people over here
(Australia), Sandra, who read your wonderful articles. We even use
them as discussion focuses and points of reference for our
unschooling groups.-=-

That's so cool for me to think about. I get quoted with an
Australian accent. Wow.

Thanks!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I read you too, Sandra, (and Joyce and lots of other sites and blogs)
even though I feel fairly comfortable and practised as a mindful
parent, who then came to actual RU further along our journey.-=-

And a New Zealand accent. <g>

-=-I thank Kirby, Marty and Holly too, for their willingnes to give of
themselves as they do, as you do, Sandra. -=-

Thanks. I'll share this with them. They really have been poster
children for another way of being.

Marty went to a school dance last night.

Kirby's about to start training on a job that said you have to have a
high school diploma or a GED; he has neither. He's the only one who
passed all the "tests" (informal) and interviews to do the World of
Warcraft customer support. The rest of them who applied when he did
will be doing support for other companies than Blizzard.

Holly was participating in a weekly discussion of medieval virtues,
and though she would only say two or three things in a two hour
session, her comments were better than most of those others present.
When the young (22 year old) wife of one of the participants wanted
to start coming, I was talking about it with one of my best regulars
and said "I'd like to say she's too young or new to the group, but
Holly's there." He said "Yeah, but Holly's like 30." (She's 15. He
knows. He meant to say she's as mature in that type of discussion as
if she were 30, which is too flattering, but still... she does
understand the subject matter better than the 22 year old graduate
student does sometimes.) But now Holly has a Wednesday night
babysitting job, so she's unable to come to the discussions, which is
fine because she was going to quit when Lost starts back up in a
couple of weeks.

These kids are just not "at their spot" on the conveyor belt.
They're "ahead" some and "behind" some and "beyond" some and
"oblivious" some (to traditions concerning school dances, for
instance <g>).

But in every case, they have had the information they've requested or
that came up naturally in the course of their wanting to know things,
or coming across a new activity or topic, or choosing to pursue
something or other.

I didn't invite Holly to that philosophy discussion. We meet in a
restaurant that's walking distance, and one night she was hungry and
wanted to go eat and then go home. She stayed. She came back. She
was curious about what we were doing, and she likes some of the
people there. Marty goes now too. Marty's friend Brett started
going. He first planned to come for the first hour and then go to
our house for Kirby's D&D game. As it turned out, he goes to the D&D
game late.

Had I suggested to any of these kids that they should attend a
philosophy discussion that I run, or MADE them go, their being there
wouldn't be nearly the same.

I've rambled away from the original question, but I'm still in the
realm of the quality and value of information that is shared when
the listener is interested or needs to know, and when the listener
is free to stay or go, free to change the subject or to ask about
something altogether different.

It's cool to say that all my kids have jobs. Except for campus work-
study jobs (filing cards for the bursar, and working in the
cafeteria) I didn't have a job until I was 20 years old. Kirby has
worked since he was 14, and Marty since he was 15. Holly's 15 and
got a very good babysitting job, regular through May. (Whether it
will continue after that isn't important to her.) People are happy
with their work and their presence. We didn't "make" them get jobs
or even suggest it, in any of those cases. (I did let Holly know
about the babysitting job, but I didn't say "Look for a babysitting
job.")

Now I'm ramblng, but there are some more ideas for the collection.

Sandra

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