Potty Training Advice Needed
Heather
Hi all, I know this is perhaps a bit off-topic from Unschooling but
was hoping that perhaps since lots of you have older kids and
experience, perhaps you could help me with this. I am having trouble
potty training my 3 1/2 yr old son. We've been working on it off and
on since he turned three (and some before then, but he wasn't ever
dry through the night untill then and so we didn't push it too much
and we also moved cross country in February and had read that you
shouldn't try when there is a big life change like that). We read
all the books (picture books about potty training), I have two
Video's about Potty Training that he likes to watch (was hoping Elmo
would get him excited enough to learn! Since Elmo is his favorite!
No dice!)I put him in cloth training pants every few days to 'try
again' but he and I both end up frustrated when he ends up
wetting/messing his pants and just go back to diapers or pull-ups.
Have read a bit about letting him go about w/ no pants on at all,
but it's pretty cold and don't know if he'd get too cold? Not sure
what to do. His sister is about to turn two the end of this month
(and is just getting verbal enough to start thinking of training
perhaps) and I am thinking perhaps I'll try and train them at the
same time so maybe he'll be more interested in it if it's a group
activity...? I am frustrated and feeling like a bit of a failure.
Like, if I can't even teach him to use the toilet, how will I EVER
teach him to read, write, etc etc etc... He's a bright little boy in
other areas and he likes to sit on the toilet, but just to 'pretend'
and practice 'wiping'(he's observed his Dad and I going to the
bathroom as we've read that is a good idea for him to see so he
knows 'what to do')... But as for him actually going in the toilet,
NO SUCCESS at all...?? Has anyone else had a 'late bloomer' in
toileting and advice one what they did? As I've posted before too,
he's somewhat speech delayed and has only, in the last month or two,
been using the 'potty training jargon' from the books I've been
reading him. Any help or advice would be GREAT!!
Thanks in advance,
Smiles,
Heather
was hoping that perhaps since lots of you have older kids and
experience, perhaps you could help me with this. I am having trouble
potty training my 3 1/2 yr old son. We've been working on it off and
on since he turned three (and some before then, but he wasn't ever
dry through the night untill then and so we didn't push it too much
and we also moved cross country in February and had read that you
shouldn't try when there is a big life change like that). We read
all the books (picture books about potty training), I have two
Video's about Potty Training that he likes to watch (was hoping Elmo
would get him excited enough to learn! Since Elmo is his favorite!
No dice!)I put him in cloth training pants every few days to 'try
again' but he and I both end up frustrated when he ends up
wetting/messing his pants and just go back to diapers or pull-ups.
Have read a bit about letting him go about w/ no pants on at all,
but it's pretty cold and don't know if he'd get too cold? Not sure
what to do. His sister is about to turn two the end of this month
(and is just getting verbal enough to start thinking of training
perhaps) and I am thinking perhaps I'll try and train them at the
same time so maybe he'll be more interested in it if it's a group
activity...? I am frustrated and feeling like a bit of a failure.
Like, if I can't even teach him to use the toilet, how will I EVER
teach him to read, write, etc etc etc... He's a bright little boy in
other areas and he likes to sit on the toilet, but just to 'pretend'
and practice 'wiping'(he's observed his Dad and I going to the
bathroom as we've read that is a good idea for him to see so he
knows 'what to do')... But as for him actually going in the toilet,
NO SUCCESS at all...?? Has anyone else had a 'late bloomer' in
toileting and advice one what they did? As I've posted before too,
he's somewhat speech delayed and has only, in the last month or two,
been using the 'potty training jargon' from the books I've been
reading him. Any help or advice would be GREAT!!
Thanks in advance,
Smiles,
Heather
Nancy Wooton
On Dec 3, 2006, at 9:40 AM, Heather wrote:
same time. She was simply not interested in the toilet. At the time,
I was still working, and our work lunch room had a shelf of books to
take or trade. One of them was "Toilet Training in Less Than a Day,"
which I grabbed onto like a lifeline. I didn't know it at the time,
but this would be my first experience with operant conditioning (what
animal trainers commonly call "clicker training" now, and which I've
since used with great success on dogs and horses). It's also the kind
of training Alfie Kohn derides in "Punished by Rewards." Kind of a
conundrum for an unschooler, I know :-) But, I wasn't an unschooler
back then!
I read the book, got the tools together (cloth panties, a baby doll
that could wet, salty snacks, juice boxes, M&M's, an apron for me to
put snacks), told my dd that this would be the day she would never have
to wear diapers again, and endured the screams of protest ("I will
NEVER wear panties!!!"). I didn't let it get to me, just proceeded to
"teach" the doll to use the potty. I could go into greater detail
about the method, or you could find the book if you're interested.
Just to say that the title was dead on: it took less than two hours to
go from screaming protests to smiling, "I'm never going to wear diapers
again!" She didn't -- and she never once wet her pants.
By the time he brother was old enough, I'd absorbed a lot of criticism
of this method ("Oh, that's just operant conditioning," implying it was
somehow bad), so I didn't use it with him. I used the charts and stars
method. It took months. He was at least somewhat interested in the
potty, having an older sister who could use it, and he may have started
a bit younger, so that could explain his having accidents when she did
not (including in bed).
You might want to look for the book, since you have a child who is old
enough but not motivated. Honestly, the whole experience was fun and
positive, and a real bonding time for my daughter and me. It hinges on
the child teaching the dolly to use the potty, including teaching the
dolly to hurry to the potty from different rooms in the house (it got
quite hilarious after awhile!).
Nancy (tripping way down memory lane, as the aforementioned children
are 19 and 16 now!)
> Has anyone else had a 'late bloomer' inYes; my firstborn was nearly 4, and I had an infant in diapers at the
> toileting and advice one what they did?
same time. She was simply not interested in the toilet. At the time,
I was still working, and our work lunch room had a shelf of books to
take or trade. One of them was "Toilet Training in Less Than a Day,"
which I grabbed onto like a lifeline. I didn't know it at the time,
but this would be my first experience with operant conditioning (what
animal trainers commonly call "clicker training" now, and which I've
since used with great success on dogs and horses). It's also the kind
of training Alfie Kohn derides in "Punished by Rewards." Kind of a
conundrum for an unschooler, I know :-) But, I wasn't an unschooler
back then!
I read the book, got the tools together (cloth panties, a baby doll
that could wet, salty snacks, juice boxes, M&M's, an apron for me to
put snacks), told my dd that this would be the day she would never have
to wear diapers again, and endured the screams of protest ("I will
NEVER wear panties!!!"). I didn't let it get to me, just proceeded to
"teach" the doll to use the potty. I could go into greater detail
about the method, or you could find the book if you're interested.
Just to say that the title was dead on: it took less than two hours to
go from screaming protests to smiling, "I'm never going to wear diapers
again!" She didn't -- and she never once wet her pants.
By the time he brother was old enough, I'd absorbed a lot of criticism
of this method ("Oh, that's just operant conditioning," implying it was
somehow bad), so I didn't use it with him. I used the charts and stars
method. It took months. He was at least somewhat interested in the
potty, having an older sister who could use it, and he may have started
a bit younger, so that could explain his having accidents when she did
not (including in bed).
You might want to look for the book, since you have a child who is old
enough but not motivated. Honestly, the whole experience was fun and
positive, and a real bonding time for my daughter and me. It hinges on
the child teaching the dolly to use the potty, including teaching the
dolly to hurry to the potty from different rooms in the house (it got
quite hilarious after awhile!).
Nancy (tripping way down memory lane, as the aforementioned children
are 19 and 16 now!)
Sandra Dodd
-=-Like, if I can't even teach him to use the toilet, how will I EVER
teach him to read, write, etc etc etc... -=-
This is really not an unschooling question.
You're asking people to help you teach more efficiently, but people
here are going to tell you not to teach.
You will not ever teach him to read.
You will not ever teach him to write.
You should stop trying to teach him to use the toilet.
Create an environment in which he will learn calmly and happily in
his own time. Part of that environment needs to be your calm, happy
acceptance.
If you can do it with toilet training, you can do it with reading.
http://sandradodd.com/toddlers
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
teach him to read, write, etc etc etc... -=-
This is really not an unschooling question.
You're asking people to help you teach more efficiently, but people
here are going to tell you not to teach.
You will not ever teach him to read.
You will not ever teach him to write.
You should stop trying to teach him to use the toilet.
Create an environment in which he will learn calmly and happily in
his own time. Part of that environment needs to be your calm, happy
acceptance.
If you can do it with toilet training, you can do it with reading.
http://sandradodd.com/toddlers
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather
Thank you for that. I, as you've likely noticed, manage to get
myself worked into a lather about things too often... I realized
today (after getting my 'monthly friend') that likely my nagging
worries about this and other things have been hormone induced. I've
been working with my son on Potty Training and not having much
success and the more books I read about it, most of them refering
to '2 and SOMETIMES 3 year olds' gets me to thinking "Oh my
goodness! He's three and a 1/2! I HAVE TO GET IT DONE!!!" When, in
my calmer moments, I am more of a 'he has his own timing and will
learn when it's important to him'. I know this isn't an
unschooling 'issue' but had tried to post for advice on a few potty
training YahooGroups, and didn't get much response and so figured
I'd see what this groups experiences were. I like the way you put
this:
the cotton training pants on him (so he can actually be cognizant of
when he is wet or dry, as the pull-ups seem to keep him from
registering that feeling) and let him decide when it's important
enough for him to do. He is interested in the potty training books
and likes to hear the stories, so I'll continue to read them to him
as well and just TRUST... Thanks again.
Smiles,
Heather
myself worked into a lather about things too often... I realized
today (after getting my 'monthly friend') that likely my nagging
worries about this and other things have been hormone induced. I've
been working with my son on Potty Training and not having much
success and the more books I read about it, most of them refering
to '2 and SOMETIMES 3 year olds' gets me to thinking "Oh my
goodness! He's three and a 1/2! I HAVE TO GET IT DONE!!!" When, in
my calmer moments, I am more of a 'he has his own timing and will
learn when it's important to him'. I know this isn't an
unschooling 'issue' but had tried to post for advice on a few potty
training YahooGroups, and didn't get much response and so figured
I'd see what this groups experiences were. I like the way you put
this:
>You will not ever teach him to read.I need to keep that in my mind. I guess I'll just continue to put
>You will not ever teach him to write.
>You should stop trying to teach him to use the toilet.
the cotton training pants on him (so he can actually be cognizant of
when he is wet or dry, as the pull-ups seem to keep him from
registering that feeling) and let him decide when it's important
enough for him to do. He is interested in the potty training books
and likes to hear the stories, so I'll continue to read them to him
as well and just TRUST... Thanks again.
Smiles,
Heather
queenjane555
> Like, if I can't even teach him to use the toilet, how will I EVERInteresting how thinking about it in the opposite way has helped me
> teach him to read, write, etc etc etc...
so much in unschooling my son.
He learned to use the potty, when he was around 3.5 yrs old. I can't
remember exactly how old he was, because it just wasnt that big of a
deal. I didnt teach him. In fact, other than modelling using the
bathroom myself, i didnt even really encourage him. We had potty
seats sitting around, he'd sit on them sometimes, even pee in them
sometimes, but it wasnt really a big deal. I figured he would learn
eventually.
And he did. He's now 10 yrs old, and uses the toilet all the time.
Go figure!;o) Actually he does wear pull-ups(goodnites)at
night,because he is a very deep sleeper and will otherwise wet. I
figure he'll grow out of that too, eventually. I know i did.
And because my son learned to use the bathroom eventually, and
stopped nursing eventually, and started sleeping in his own bed
eventually, it was easy for me to accept that he would learn to read
eventually, in his own time and at his own pace.
I have a friend who's son is a year younger than mine. He got
underwear for his 2nd birthday (amongst other presents of course!)
She began potty training him from the time he was two....by the time
he was 3.5 he was using the toilet regularly, just like my son.
Seems like a lot of work and worry, for something that WILL (barring
any developmental problems)work itself out on its own. I found it
was alot more work to have a child potty-training-in-progress, than
to have one who is completely ready to use the toilet. I found
diapers alot easier, you didnt have to constantly ask if he has to
go, deal with accidents, leave movies early to go to the potty, etc.
Its really not that dissimilar to unschoolers learning to read vs a
parent teaching a child to read. I couldve struggled with my son and
got him to stumble through early readers. But i just let it go. He
skipped all the simple stuff and went straight for the good stuff.
So my suggestion....don't worry about it. If you push him, he will
know it, and might resist. If you tell him he will be able to use
the potty when his body is ready, it will take the pressure off.
Katherine
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess I'll just continue to put
the cotton training pants on him (so he can actually be cognizant of
when he is wet or dry, as the pull-ups seem to keep him from
registering that feeling)-=-
I'd use pull ups or Pampers instead of "cotton training pants."
Seriously.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the cotton training pants on him (so he can actually be cognizant of
when he is wet or dry, as the pull-ups seem to keep him from
registering that feeling)-=-
I'd use pull ups or Pampers instead of "cotton training pants."
Seriously.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather
> I'd use pull ups or Pampers instead of "cotton training pants."==================
>
> Seriously.
>
>
> Sandra
Ok... I will! I guess I've just got to let go of the 'ought to'
thoughts that pervade my head so often and trust my son more to know
what is right for him. I struggle with the 'time' thing and if I am
going to be successful at unschooling, I need to let it go. I know
that. I am glad I found this group when my kids are so little so by
the time that the actual 'unschooling' time comes (as opposed to
them just being toddlers and me being Mommy) I'll have a better
understanding and ability to 'let go' and TRUST them... Thanks so
much to you all for continuing to put up with my lack thereof... I
had thought I was such a laid back Mom! LOL! I am getting there
though... One day at a time. Thanks!
Heather
> Seems like a lot of work and worry, for something that WILL (barring=========================
> any developmental problems)work itself out on its own. I found it
> was alot more work to have a child potty-training-in-progress, than
> to have one who is completely ready to use the toilet. I found
> diapers alot easier, you didnt have to constantly ask if he has to
> go, deal with accidents, leave movies early to go to the potty, etc.
>
Again, I will just go back to diapers or pull ups... Like you said,
it's easier on me and I am sure my 'stress' about it is making
him 'resist'... Who needs it! Niether him nor me! I'll just let him
have his own timing be the rule on this (and try to on everything else
he will learn as well! I will!! I am sure I'll need reminding and
reassurance from you veterans more than once again, but I WILL!).
Thanks again!
Warmest Smiles and regards,
Heather
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess I'll just continue to put
the cotton training pants on him (so he can actually be cognizant of
when he is wet or dry, as the pull-ups seem to keep him from
registering that feeling)-=-
I'd use pull ups or Pampers instead of "cotton training pants."
Seriously.
===============
I suppose I should elaborate.
By keeping him in "training pants" you indicate to yourself and to
him that you're still training him (attempting, wishing), and there
is an element of that "training pants" business that implies that a
kid who isn't ready to use a toilet SHOULD feel wet, and be
uncomfortable. Because he has failed, and sinned, and he should know
it.
But what is the principle? I think keeping him comfortable is more
important that his feeling wet. I think keeping his clothes dry
(especially in the winter!) should be a primary consideration.
Keeping urine off the bed and the couch and the carpet and the
carseats should outrank the thought that he should be cognizant of
when he's wet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the cotton training pants on him (so he can actually be cognizant of
when he is wet or dry, as the pull-ups seem to keep him from
registering that feeling)-=-
I'd use pull ups or Pampers instead of "cotton training pants."
Seriously.
===============
I suppose I should elaborate.
By keeping him in "training pants" you indicate to yourself and to
him that you're still training him (attempting, wishing), and there
is an element of that "training pants" business that implies that a
kid who isn't ready to use a toilet SHOULD feel wet, and be
uncomfortable. Because he has failed, and sinned, and he should know
it.
But what is the principle? I think keeping him comfortable is more
important that his feeling wet. I think keeping his clothes dry
(especially in the winter!) should be a primary consideration.
Keeping urine off the bed and the couch and the carpet and the
carseats should outrank the thought that he should be cognizant of
when he's wet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]