Re: Twins
m&kpaquette
Hi Janet!!
I also have twins that are 5 years old. They will be 6 in June. They are mono-zygotic & were born vaginally, no meds & full-term. Baby A was head down & 5lbs, 13 oz and Baby B
was double footling breech & 7lbs, 15 oz. We went home the same day they were born & they were exclusively breastfed, cotton diapered, APed, co-slept, etc.
I already had 4 other children. When the twins were born they were 10, 8, 6, 3.5 yrs old.
They were pretty easy going unschooled kids. I also did full-time home day care before the twins were born. At one point I had a one 6 year old, two 4 year olds, two 2 year olds and a one year old & a newborn. As the two 4 and two 2 year olds were only a few weeks apart I essentially had two sets of twins from 8am till at least 5pm, 5 days a week. My DH was working in another city during the week at the time, so I was single parenting most of the week. I managed quite well.
So...I figured the twins would be a challenge (I didn't get the day-care kids full-time till they were 6 months so having two newborns-6 months was going to be "new"), but hey I could handle it.
YIKES!! These two girls are wired so differently than my other kids. I worked with language delayed pre-schoolers with developmentally delayed adults, "problem" teenagers and elementary school students with behavioural issues. NOTHING prepared me for the twins!!
Anyways...here we are almost 6 years later. They had reflux & would breastfeed, then puke & then breastfeed again & this went on for hours. I would get 2-4 hours of sleep a night for the first few months & never in a row. They only napped if they were laying on top of me. They had to be on top of me when we co-slept as well. They start in their own beds now, but still usually come into my bed almost every night. They had night terrors almost every night for years. We tried EVERYTHING to try to prevent them to no avail. They have recently greatly decreased. My brother also had night terrors, but none of my other children did. My twins were APed, as were my other children. I thought maybe I was just "too old". I turned 35 a couple of months after they were born.
Well I was blessed with a 7th baby & he was born at home on Sept 16, 2003 & with all the kids watching. Jonah had his first & only brother!!
Well I realized that I wasn't too old for a baby ( I turned 38 two weeks after Teagan was born. He was more like his singleton siblings. So as he slept peacefully beside me, waking occasionally to nurse, but falling right back to sleep. I was struggling with his twins sisters who were still up several times a night to ask to nurse, would scream when I told them "all done" after the milk was gone. Still having night terrors, etc. I would hope that Teagan didn't wake to nurse to soon again as the girls had already had all the milk.
I never had to go out of my way to reinforce my other kids for behaviours. But I find with the twins I do need to do this. They needed more direction from the get go. Intense....that is an UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!
My dad just laughs as he is a twin (fraternal boys) and so does my FIL, a twin too (also fraternal boys).
They recall their parents saying they were a "handful". Actually they are two handfuls!! Honestly, (I really don't like to say it but....) if they were my first children...I don't know if I would have taken the "risk" of having anymore. When we were surprised with Teagan's pregnancy (I am actually technically infertile under 2 categories...that's another story), we were so afraid we'd have a baby like the twins. Whew!!! He wasn't!!
I am now also fostering fraternal twin girls who are now 16 months old. They certainly have their moments, which again are very different than dealing with two children with a larger age gap. But they are still a lot "easier" than my twins ever were!! There is no doubt that having two babies exactly the same age is a challenge to begin with, then personality plays a huge role on top of that. I know a mom who had g/b twins 6 months after my twins were born & she didn't have near the struggles that I did. But she did admit her babies were pretty easy going.
Anyone that met my twins commented on how intense they were & how incredible different they were from the rest of the kids. So at least I knew it wasn't just my perspective!!
I find they do NOT pull each other down in regards to learning. In fact it is the opposite. I have really notice a difference lately in their learning too. They come out with a ton of stuff & honestly I am not sure exactly where they are getting it from. It is really cool though. They will start to tell you about it & they will finish eachother's sentences or will carry on the story from where the other left off & they story is always the same. (Unlike DH & I who will tell a story about an occurence, yet we remember certain parts quite differently!). It is quite a shock to others as they try to follow the twins' stories! It is quite amusing actually. They definitely freak out other kids though. Even older kids.
My oldest daughter chose to go to high-school for grade 9 and became friends with a set of identical twin girls. Other people asked if they freaked her out because a lot of the kids were freaked out by them!! She said "no" & didn't understand why. She quickly figured out simple ways to know which twin was which. Anyways I got to know the twins & was amused to find that they also finished eachother's sentences & stories, and actually had this automatic turn taking thing happening where they didn't seem to communicate anything (definitely wasn't verbal) but they had a lot more facial & body expressions they exchanged that I noticed were unique. Well I am now discovering they are unique to twins!! As my twins are now doing the same things!!
I love what your sister said. Couldn't help but laugh!!
So...if they pull each other down then what is happening at pre-school where the kids are all the same ages.......hmmmmmmm.
LOL!!!
Kerri, mom to: Amanda(15), Emma(14), Maddison(12), Jonah(9), Saige & Claire (5, mz twin dds), Teagan (2,ds), and J & J (1 ,dz
twin foster dds)
I like the occasionally they have fights. As Sandra said being 5 has an
expiration date. We figured out AP on our own after our first was born and
none of my mil's advice worked very well - let them cry - from the first
didn't feel right. It was harder with the twins. Also, the younger, BG,
had a stricture in her esophagaus that wasn't detected until she was 15 mos.
She would nurse every hour to hour and a half. She cried what seemed like
constantly. My husband was at work so there was only me. My older helped a
lot. She loves her little sisters. But it was hard. Abby, the older one,
didn't get the holding and cuddling that her sister did. BG had 4 surgeries
to correct the problem. After that she could actually eat - what a
difference. Abby sleeps with Abra (8) usually and BG sleeps with Hannah
(16). By morning BG's usually in my bed. They did that around the time
they turned 4.
They are so intense. When Hannah and Rachael would fight (2 yrs apart) it
was never with this intensity. Different personalities too besides the twin
factor. My sil with a masters in special education tells me they hold each
other back. Being cognitively at the same level the pull each other down
instead of one pulling the other up. She was trying to prove they needed to
be in pre-school. Seems to me she shot her own theory. Lol. But I have to
admit the dynamics are completely different.
Janet
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I also have twins that are 5 years old. They will be 6 in June. They are mono-zygotic & were born vaginally, no meds & full-term. Baby A was head down & 5lbs, 13 oz and Baby B
was double footling breech & 7lbs, 15 oz. We went home the same day they were born & they were exclusively breastfed, cotton diapered, APed, co-slept, etc.
I already had 4 other children. When the twins were born they were 10, 8, 6, 3.5 yrs old.
They were pretty easy going unschooled kids. I also did full-time home day care before the twins were born. At one point I had a one 6 year old, two 4 year olds, two 2 year olds and a one year old & a newborn. As the two 4 and two 2 year olds were only a few weeks apart I essentially had two sets of twins from 8am till at least 5pm, 5 days a week. My DH was working in another city during the week at the time, so I was single parenting most of the week. I managed quite well.
So...I figured the twins would be a challenge (I didn't get the day-care kids full-time till they were 6 months so having two newborns-6 months was going to be "new"), but hey I could handle it.
YIKES!! These two girls are wired so differently than my other kids. I worked with language delayed pre-schoolers with developmentally delayed adults, "problem" teenagers and elementary school students with behavioural issues. NOTHING prepared me for the twins!!
Anyways...here we are almost 6 years later. They had reflux & would breastfeed, then puke & then breastfeed again & this went on for hours. I would get 2-4 hours of sleep a night for the first few months & never in a row. They only napped if they were laying on top of me. They had to be on top of me when we co-slept as well. They start in their own beds now, but still usually come into my bed almost every night. They had night terrors almost every night for years. We tried EVERYTHING to try to prevent them to no avail. They have recently greatly decreased. My brother also had night terrors, but none of my other children did. My twins were APed, as were my other children. I thought maybe I was just "too old". I turned 35 a couple of months after they were born.
Well I was blessed with a 7th baby & he was born at home on Sept 16, 2003 & with all the kids watching. Jonah had his first & only brother!!
Well I realized that I wasn't too old for a baby ( I turned 38 two weeks after Teagan was born. He was more like his singleton siblings. So as he slept peacefully beside me, waking occasionally to nurse, but falling right back to sleep. I was struggling with his twins sisters who were still up several times a night to ask to nurse, would scream when I told them "all done" after the milk was gone. Still having night terrors, etc. I would hope that Teagan didn't wake to nurse to soon again as the girls had already had all the milk.
I never had to go out of my way to reinforce my other kids for behaviours. But I find with the twins I do need to do this. They needed more direction from the get go. Intense....that is an UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!
My dad just laughs as he is a twin (fraternal boys) and so does my FIL, a twin too (also fraternal boys).
They recall their parents saying they were a "handful". Actually they are two handfuls!! Honestly, (I really don't like to say it but....) if they were my first children...I don't know if I would have taken the "risk" of having anymore. When we were surprised with Teagan's pregnancy (I am actually technically infertile under 2 categories...that's another story), we were so afraid we'd have a baby like the twins. Whew!!! He wasn't!!
I am now also fostering fraternal twin girls who are now 16 months old. They certainly have their moments, which again are very different than dealing with two children with a larger age gap. But they are still a lot "easier" than my twins ever were!! There is no doubt that having two babies exactly the same age is a challenge to begin with, then personality plays a huge role on top of that. I know a mom who had g/b twins 6 months after my twins were born & she didn't have near the struggles that I did. But she did admit her babies were pretty easy going.
Anyone that met my twins commented on how intense they were & how incredible different they were from the rest of the kids. So at least I knew it wasn't just my perspective!!
I find they do NOT pull each other down in regards to learning. In fact it is the opposite. I have really notice a difference lately in their learning too. They come out with a ton of stuff & honestly I am not sure exactly where they are getting it from. It is really cool though. They will start to tell you about it & they will finish eachother's sentences or will carry on the story from where the other left off & they story is always the same. (Unlike DH & I who will tell a story about an occurence, yet we remember certain parts quite differently!). It is quite a shock to others as they try to follow the twins' stories! It is quite amusing actually. They definitely freak out other kids though. Even older kids.
My oldest daughter chose to go to high-school for grade 9 and became friends with a set of identical twin girls. Other people asked if they freaked her out because a lot of the kids were freaked out by them!! She said "no" & didn't understand why. She quickly figured out simple ways to know which twin was which. Anyways I got to know the twins & was amused to find that they also finished eachother's sentences & stories, and actually had this automatic turn taking thing happening where they didn't seem to communicate anything (definitely wasn't verbal) but they had a lot more facial & body expressions they exchanged that I noticed were unique. Well I am now discovering they are unique to twins!! As my twins are now doing the same things!!
I love what your sister said. Couldn't help but laugh!!
So...if they pull each other down then what is happening at pre-school where the kids are all the same ages.......hmmmmmmm.
LOL!!!
Kerri, mom to: Amanda(15), Emma(14), Maddison(12), Jonah(9), Saige & Claire (5, mz twin dds), Teagan (2,ds), and J & J (1 ,dz
twin foster dds)
I like the occasionally they have fights. As Sandra said being 5 has an
expiration date. We figured out AP on our own after our first was born and
none of my mil's advice worked very well - let them cry - from the first
didn't feel right. It was harder with the twins. Also, the younger, BG,
had a stricture in her esophagaus that wasn't detected until she was 15 mos.
She would nurse every hour to hour and a half. She cried what seemed like
constantly. My husband was at work so there was only me. My older helped a
lot. She loves her little sisters. But it was hard. Abby, the older one,
didn't get the holding and cuddling that her sister did. BG had 4 surgeries
to correct the problem. After that she could actually eat - what a
difference. Abby sleeps with Abra (8) usually and BG sleeps with Hannah
(16). By morning BG's usually in my bed. They did that around the time
they turned 4.
They are so intense. When Hannah and Rachael would fight (2 yrs apart) it
was never with this intensity. Different personalities too besides the twin
factor. My sil with a masters in special education tells me they hold each
other back. Being cognitively at the same level the pull each other down
instead of one pulling the other up. She was trying to prove they needed to
be in pre-school. Seems to me she shot her own theory. Lol. But I have to
admit the dynamics are completely different.
Janet
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cherie.gela
Hi. I've been very laid back with my 3 kids.. just go w the flow of the day. But now my twin boys are almost ten and I feel like they have no reguard for my feelings. For example, I will give them 2 hours notice that we have to leave the house. Then I will remind them about the time. And then its a big meltdown about changing outfits.. and my one son will see me stressed bc I have to get to work on time.. and he will purposely take baby steps to the car. He is very loving and attached to me, but I feel he likes to get me stirred up* and it takes A LOT to get me to that point. I feel I messed up this whole unschooling idea of we are a partnership.. its one way only and I am being walked all over. And I take them to all of these outings and museums and then no one wants to help me with house chores( I dont mind the mess.. but we need a space cleared to eat...) I feel the kids take advantage of me and their strong willed personalities are conflicting with the environment that Unschooling should bring. I dont know what to do to reverse this mess. Our norm is not optimal for joy.
Cher
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
Sandra Dodd
-=-But now my twin boys are almost ten and I feel like they have no reguard for my feelings.-=-
They’re nine year old boys. Caring about the feelings of grown women will NOT be in their skill set.
-=-And then its a big meltdown about changing outfits... and my one son will see me stressed bc I have to get to work on time..-=-
Get them changed sooner. Say “you can play after you change—get ready to go and then you can [eat, use the iPad, whatever it is].
-=- I feel I messed up this whole unschooling idea of we are a partnership.-=-
It happens, and even more since people are using phones instead of siting at a computer for a while, to read thoughtfully, that people read just the title of an article or a page. They glance at headers, and that’s all.
Your child is not in an equal partnership with you. He’s not a spouse, or business partner or best friend. He’s a child.
YOU be your child’s partner—be his helper, his assistant. You’re older, stronger, you can cook, you have cash and a car. He has none of that.
-=-I feel the kids take advantage of me -=-
Take a few days to tink about what that means to you.
A child you birthed is “taking advantage of you”? What advantage? How would you be a disadvantage?
I think “they take advantage of me” is a phrase you’ve heard elsewhere or that someone has used toward you, perhaps.
-=-... their strong willed personalities are conflicting with the environment that Unschooling should bring-=-
Perhaps. Maybe you won’t be able to unschool.
Unschooling doesn’t bring an environment.
IF parents can create and maintain a rich and peaceful environment, then unschooling might start to happen well.
It seems from what you wrote that you think they should be meeting you halfway, and that unschooling has failed to bring the environment you would like to have.
The bad news is that you need to do all the work for a while. Years.
The good news is that there are lots of people here who can help you, and there have been others here before who wrote things I’ve saved.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/mama
Don’t speed-read that. Take days to slowly, gradually, think of every phrase.
There are other links at the bottom.
You can’t fix everything in one day, but if you don’t see a better way and move toward it, you could stay stuck for a long time.
Sandra
They’re nine year old boys. Caring about the feelings of grown women will NOT be in their skill set.
-=-And then its a big meltdown about changing outfits... and my one son will see me stressed bc I have to get to work on time..-=-
Get them changed sooner. Say “you can play after you change—get ready to go and then you can [eat, use the iPad, whatever it is].
-=- I feel I messed up this whole unschooling idea of we are a partnership.-=-
It happens, and even more since people are using phones instead of siting at a computer for a while, to read thoughtfully, that people read just the title of an article or a page. They glance at headers, and that’s all.
Your child is not in an equal partnership with you. He’s not a spouse, or business partner or best friend. He’s a child.
YOU be your child’s partner—be his helper, his assistant. You’re older, stronger, you can cook, you have cash and a car. He has none of that.
-=-I feel the kids take advantage of me -=-
Take a few days to tink about what that means to you.
A child you birthed is “taking advantage of you”? What advantage? How would you be a disadvantage?
I think “they take advantage of me” is a phrase you’ve heard elsewhere or that someone has used toward you, perhaps.
-=-... their strong willed personalities are conflicting with the environment that Unschooling should bring-=-
Perhaps. Maybe you won’t be able to unschool.
Unschooling doesn’t bring an environment.
IF parents can create and maintain a rich and peaceful environment, then unschooling might start to happen well.
It seems from what you wrote that you think they should be meeting you halfway, and that unschooling has failed to bring the environment you would like to have.
The bad news is that you need to do all the work for a while. Years.
The good news is that there are lots of people here who can help you, and there have been others here before who wrote things I’ve saved.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/mama
Don’t speed-read that. Take days to slowly, gradually, think of every phrase.
There are other links at the bottom.
You can’t fix everything in one day, but if you don’t see a better way and move toward it, you could stay stuck for a long time.
Sandra
Karen James
I'm so sorry about my premature reply. I have no idea how or why it sent after only typing that first sentence. I must have hit some weird key combination trying to copy and paste from the original post. My sincere apologies. A (hopefully) proper reply follows:
My first impression is that mom believes that if she gives enough, there will be something of value returned to her. For example:
***I've been very laid back with my 3 kids...But now my twin boys are almost ten and I feel like they have no reguard for my feelings***
***I take them to all of these outings and museums and then no one wants to help me with house chores***
Make choices because those choices make sense to you. Make choices that help everyone succeed. Being laid back is good sometimes. Being concise and direct is useful at other times. Consider and adjust to the moment.
If you need the kids to get ready by a certain time, help them do what needs to be done on time. Anticipate their needs and ways as much as possible. Be playful when you can. Playful Parenting by Lawrence J. Cohen has some great ideas for helping parents turn everyday situations like getting dressed, going places, getting things done into something light and fun and potentially joyful for everyone.
Don't trade fun outings and activities for chores. When you are doing chores, invite your kids to help you. Again, make it fun when you can. Put on some lively music, maybe. Keep it light. Let them be done when they're done, and let them say no if they're busy with something else. When they say no, let yourself be of service to your kids without resentment, especially while they are still young. Let it be something positive in your mind--a gift to them, maybe. A gift to yourself too. Honestly, it's an easy and beautiful gift to give that is fleeting, even though it might not feel that way now. :-)
Trust that there is value in the services you provide for them. The value that each of your children take from your service will be different for each person. It's not always obvious, either, how much our children value our care, but it matters nonetheless. The older my son gets, the more I see and understand that to be true.
http://sandradodd.com/chores/gift
http://sandradodd.com/service
If you need extra help around the house, consider hiring someone temporarily, or having a teen come and play with your kids while you get some things done. Maybe you can swap childcare with another mom (or partner or spouse when possible). Find creative ways to meet your own needs while you continue to support the needs and development and learning of your kids.
Karen James
My first impression is that mom believes that if she gives enough, there will be something of value returned to her. For example:
***I've been very laid back with my 3 kids...But now my twin boys are almost ten and I feel like they have no reguard for my feelings***
***I take them to all of these outings and museums and then no one wants to help me with house chores***
Make choices because those choices make sense to you. Make choices that help everyone succeed. Being laid back is good sometimes. Being concise and direct is useful at other times. Consider and adjust to the moment.
If you need the kids to get ready by a certain time, help them do what needs to be done on time. Anticipate their needs and ways as much as possible. Be playful when you can. Playful Parenting by Lawrence J. Cohen has some great ideas for helping parents turn everyday situations like getting dressed, going places, getting things done into something light and fun and potentially joyful for everyone.
Don't trade fun outings and activities for chores. When you are doing chores, invite your kids to help you. Again, make it fun when you can. Put on some lively music, maybe. Keep it light. Let them be done when they're done, and let them say no if they're busy with something else. When they say no, let yourself be of service to your kids without resentment, especially while they are still young. Let it be something positive in your mind--a gift to them, maybe. A gift to yourself too. Honestly, it's an easy and beautiful gift to give that is fleeting, even though it might not feel that way now. :-)
Trust that there is value in the services you provide for them. The value that each of your children take from your service will be different for each person. It's not always obvious, either, how much our children value our care, but it matters nonetheless. The older my son gets, the more I see and understand that to be true.
http://sandradodd.com/chores/gift
http://sandradodd.com/service
If you need extra help around the house, consider hiring someone temporarily, or having a teen come and play with your kids while you get some things done. Maybe you can swap childcare with another mom (or partner or spouse when possible). Find creative ways to meet your own needs while you continue to support the needs and development and learning of your kids.
Karen James
On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 9:27 PM Karen James <semajrak@...> wrote:My first impression is that mom believes that if she gives enough, there will be something returned to her.On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 8:21 PM 'cherie.gela' cherie.gela@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:Hi. I've been very laid back with my 3 kids.. just go w the flow of the day. But now my twin boys are almost ten and I feel like they have no reguard for my feelings. For example, I will give them 2 hours notice that we have to leave the house. Then I will remind them about the time. And then its a big meltdown about changing outfits.. and my one son will see me stressed bc I have to get to work on time.. and he will purposely take baby steps to the car. He is very loving and attached to me, but I feel he likes to get me stirred up* and it takes A LOT to get me to that point. I feel I messed up this whole unschooling idea of we are a partnership.. its one way only and I am being walked all over. And I take them to all of these outings and museums and then no one wants to help me with house chores( I dont mind the mess.. but we need a space cleared to eat...) I feel the kids take advantage of me and their strong willed personalities are conflicting with the environment that Unschooling should bring. I dont know what to do to reverse this mess. Our norm is not optimal for joy.CherSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
D. Harper
> I've been very laid back with my 3 kids..For unschooling to work well, being present to the kids, and generously supporting them through their days, is better. Unschooling requires the active, engaged support of parent/s.
> But now my twin boys are almost ten and I feel like they have no reguard for my feelings. For example, I will give them 2 hours notice that we have to leave the house. Then I will remind them about the time.Giving 9yo boys notice and a reminder, is too detached - especially when they’re engaged with other things. It’s not likely to work well.
When children need to get ready for something, help them be ready on time - in ways that are likely to work well for them… maybe with humour, novelty, adventure, distraction, anticipation etc
Having an unrealistic expectation that "giving notice" should work well, leads to kids being perceived as having done wrong when there’s predictable stress at the end.
Being more insightful about what is likely to help the kids be ready in time, puts you in a better position to be ready on time - without stress or blame or wrongdoers or victims…
> I am being walked all over.Letting go of unrealistic expectations, opening up to seeing afresh, being open and receptive to the kids, seeing and appreciating who they are, relating to how they see the world, being there for them, supporting them, being compassionate and understanding - all will foster joy; and happier, more fruitful, relationships.
> I feel the kids take advantage of me
> Our norm is not optimal for joy.
This page has more, and leads to more:
http://sandradodd.com/being/
Debbie
Jo Isaac
==But now my twin boys are almost ten and I feel like they have no reguard for my feelings. For example, I will give
them 2 hours notice that we have to leave the house. Then I will remind them about the time.==
Firstly, I'd consider whether and why they 'have' to leave the house. Is it something they really want to do? Or something you could not have them do if they are happy at home. Secondly, 9 year olds often don't have much regard for other peoples feelings, so I wouldn't take it so personally.
2 hours is WAY too in advance for them to remember. If we are leaving the house, I remind my son (12) about 1/2 hour before, so he can finish up and leave a game at a suitable point and/or warn the friends he's playing with so they can adjust accordingly in a game. I probably remind him about 10 minutes before we leave again, too.
== And then its a big meltdown about changing outfits==
Why do they need to change outfits? Put jackets other things in the car so they can just walk out.
== and and my one son will see me stressed bc I have to get to work on time.. and he will purposely take baby steps to the car. ==
I think there is information missing here - it sounds like the Mom is taking the kids somewhere they don't necessarily love while she goes to work. In which case the dynamic is going to require a different approach - and it certainly isn't about ==messed up this whole unschooling idea of we are a partnership==
Firstly, I'd consider whether and why they 'have' to leave the house. Is it something they really want to do? Or something you could not have them do if they are happy at home. Secondly, 9 year olds often don't have much regard for other peoples feelings, so I wouldn't take it so personally.
2 hours is WAY too in advance for them to remember. If we are leaving the house, I remind my son (12) about 1/2 hour before, so he can finish up and leave a game at a suitable point and/or warn the friends he's playing with so they can adjust accordingly in a game. I probably remind him about 10 minutes before we leave again, too.
== And then its a big meltdown about changing outfits==
Why do they need to change outfits? Put jackets other things in the car so they can just walk out.
== and and my one son will see me stressed bc I have to get to work on time.. and he will purposely take baby steps to the car. ==
I think there is information missing here - it sounds like the Mom is taking the kids somewhere they don't necessarily love while she goes to work. In which case the dynamic is going to require a different approach - and it certainly isn't about ==messed up this whole unschooling idea of we are a partnership==
==likes to get me stirred up* and it takes A LOT to get me to that point.==
Honestly, it sounds like it isn't taking a lot to get you to that point at the moment.
Honestly, it sounds like it isn't taking a lot to get you to that point at the moment.
==And I take them to all of these outings and museums and then no one wants to help me with house chores( I dont mind
the mess.. but we need a space cleared to eat...) ==
You shouldn't be expecting something in return for taking them on outings. As the parent of unschooled children, making
life sparkly and joyful should be your main focus - if you feel like it's a chore and you deserve something back for that, unschooling isn't going to feel joyful at all.
Kids shouldn't need to help with 'household chores' in return for being taken on outings- they are busy being kids and learning. It takes only a few minutes to clear a table, and you could even rethink the need to all eat around a table (or whatever space needs to be cleared) at all. My son eats at his computer - I take food there, and then i go and get the plate and glass later.
Kids shouldn't need to help with 'household chores' in return for being taken on outings- they are busy being kids and learning. It takes only a few minutes to clear a table, and you could even rethink the need to all eat around a table (or whatever space needs to be cleared) at all. My son eats at his computer - I take food there, and then i go and get the plate and glass later.
==I dont know what to do to reverse this mess. Our norm is not optimal for joy.==
Change your expectations. Plan ahead to minimise disruptions. Let them eat where they are. Let them go out in the clothes they are already wearing and put jackets, shoes, whatever else they need in the car ready to go. Give them warning times that are relevant,
not two hours in advance.
Jo
Jo
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of 'cherie.gela' cherie.gela@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]>
Sent: 04 February 2019 00:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Twins
Sent: 04 February 2019 00:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Twins
Hi. I've been very laid back with my 3 kids.. just go w the flow of the day. But now my twin boys are almost ten and I feel like they have no reguard for my feelings. For example, I will give them 2 hours notice that we have
to leave the house. Then I will remind them about the time. And then its a big meltdown about changing outfits.. and my one son will see me stressed bc I have to get to work on time.. and he will purposely take baby steps to the car. He is very loving and
attached to me, but I feel he likes to get me stirred up* and it takes A LOT to get me to that point. I feel I messed up this whole unschooling idea of we are a partnership.. its one way only and I am being walked all over. And I take them to all of these
outings and museums and then no one wants to help me with house chores( I dont mind the mess.. but we need a space cleared to eat...) I feel the kids take advantage of me and their strong willed personalities are conflicting with the environment that Unschooling
should bring. I dont know what to do to reverse this mess. Our norm is not optimal for joy.
Cher
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
wildwestsky@...
Cher,
Good, you've noticed all the talk in this group about peace and how crucial it is! There are many writers here who either had a lot of emotional maturity in their homes prior to having kids, or they have learned it so well that they make it look easy. My advice to you is that you welcome your fear of doing it wrong, because it is a very real danger to mess up unschooling! But don't get caught up in guilt -- use your fear to help you behave differently.
Your writing is full of angst that's perpetuating your lack of peace. My suggestion is that you learn to watch your thoughts carefully, because they'll give lots of clues to what you're doing wrong. Then you just make little adjustments along the way, and big changes start to happen.
-Feelings are mad/glad/sad or scared. "Feels like" is code for telling stories that are not TRUE and then believing them to continue our own suffering.
-*True things can be recorded with a video camera.*
-You are not in your son's body or brain at the moment when he's taking baby steps to the car. You have no idea what his intentions are when he does this behavior.
-Your story that he's "trying to get you stirred up" causes YOU to suffer and STEALS peace from your unschooling.
-What's true is, "my son is taking baby steps to the car." Help him not do that, or leave earlier so you have time for him to take baby steps while you can be (not feel, BE) lighter about it when he does.
Good, you've noticed all the talk in this group about peace and how crucial it is! There are many writers here who either had a lot of emotional maturity in their homes prior to having kids, or they have learned it so well that they make it look easy. My advice to you is that you welcome your fear of doing it wrong, because it is a very real danger to mess up unschooling! But don't get caught up in guilt -- use your fear to help you behave differently.
Your writing is full of angst that's perpetuating your lack of peace. My suggestion is that you learn to watch your thoughts carefully, because they'll give lots of clues to what you're doing wrong. Then you just make little adjustments along the way, and big changes start to happen.
>> I feel he likes to get me stirred up <<Notice when you say "I feel like" and then reword. This tricky phrase that allows us to think we're talking about our FEELINGS (which deserve validation) and instead it lets us tell a made up story (a lie) that has no basis in reality OR our feelings. It comes from our imagination!
-Feelings are mad/glad/sad or scared. "Feels like" is code for telling stories that are not TRUE and then believing them to continue our own suffering.
-*True things can be recorded with a video camera.*
-You are not in your son's body or brain at the moment when he's taking baby steps to the car. You have no idea what his intentions are when he does this behavior.
-Your story that he's "trying to get you stirred up" causes YOU to suffer and STEALS peace from your unschooling.
-What's true is, "my son is taking baby steps to the car." Help him not do that, or leave earlier so you have time for him to take baby steps while you can be (not feel, BE) lighter about it when he does.
>> it takes A LOT to get me to that point <<
This is a sign that you are ignoring your own cues and needs. Notice things earlier. Learn your body's sensations of mad/sad/glad/scared and then NOTICE them in their SUBTLER forms.
When we learn to notice emotions as they arise, we can care for/act on them before they reach intensity. Emotions at subtle levels are part of your day; emotions at intense levels threaten your unschooling. This is part of the "putting on the oxygen mask first" that helps unschooling take root.
This is a sign that you are ignoring your own cues and needs. Notice things earlier. Learn your body's sensations of mad/sad/glad/scared and then NOTICE them in their SUBTLER forms.
When we learn to notice emotions as they arise, we can care for/act on them before they reach intensity. Emotions at subtle levels are part of your day; emotions at intense levels threaten your unschooling. This is part of the "putting on the oxygen mask first" that helps unschooling take root.
>>I feel I messed up this whole unschooling idea of we are a partnership.. its one way only and I am being walked all over. <<
See what you did there? You used the phrase "I feel like" three times in your post.
When you notice yourself doing that:
1. STOP and realize what is really happening (can be recorded with a video camera); and
2. State what you are actually feeling (mad/sad/glad/scared):
"I believe I messed up. I'm feeling angry that my kids don't help me. I'm afraid we will never have a peaceful unschooling life."
Now you have something to WORK with, something you can DO differently.
-Is it true that you messed up? How do you know it's true? What's your evidence?
-If you're angry, what do you need? Ask for it (in age appropriate ways), or give it to yourself.
-If you're afraid, check your fear against reality. If your fear IS valid (not imagined/reptile brain), make adjustments.
See what you did there? You used the phrase "I feel like" three times in your post.
When you notice yourself doing that:
1. STOP and realize what is really happening (can be recorded with a video camera); and
2. State what you are actually feeling (mad/sad/glad/scared):
"I believe I messed up. I'm feeling angry that my kids don't help me. I'm afraid we will never have a peaceful unschooling life."
Now you have something to WORK with, something you can DO differently.
-Is it true that you messed up? How do you know it's true? What's your evidence?
-If you're angry, what do you need? Ask for it (in age appropriate ways), or give it to yourself.
-If you're afraid, check your fear against reality. If your fear IS valid (not imagined/reptile brain), make adjustments.
>>I am being walked all over<<
#1) I'm guessing no one is actually walking on you, so these are someone else's words.
Find your own words to say what is really happening: "I'm mad and sad because I want help around the house and my kids don't want to help right now."
#2) Stop doing things you don't want to do.
An unschooling life is about packing as much joy and peace into your family's life as possible, not about doing unschooling right. As the at-home parent, you are the keeper of the nest. It's your responsibility to protect the peace. This starts by making CHOICES. Choose to do the dishes, choose not to do the dishes. Choose to feed the kids, choose to let them feed themselves, choose to buy takeout. Choose to clear the space to eat, choose to eat in another space for now, choose to ask for help, choose not to serve food until the space is clear and put on a dance party until everyone has cleared the space together. As long as you are doing things because they HAVE TO/Need to/Should get done, your unschooling will not thrive.
#1) I'm guessing no one is actually walking on you, so these are someone else's words.
Find your own words to say what is really happening: "I'm mad and sad because I want help around the house and my kids don't want to help right now."
#2) Stop doing things you don't want to do.
An unschooling life is about packing as much joy and peace into your family's life as possible, not about doing unschooling right. As the at-home parent, you are the keeper of the nest. It's your responsibility to protect the peace. This starts by making CHOICES. Choose to do the dishes, choose not to do the dishes. Choose to feed the kids, choose to let them feed themselves, choose to buy takeout. Choose to clear the space to eat, choose to eat in another space for now, choose to ask for help, choose not to serve food until the space is clear and put on a dance party until everyone has cleared the space together. As long as you are doing things because they HAVE TO/Need to/Should get done, your unschooling will not thrive.
>>And I take them to all of these outings and museums and then no one wants to help me with house chores<<
This has already been mentioned, but I'm going to give you a name for it, to help you notice when you're doing it -- it's called TRANSACTIONAL THINKING. Notice yourself doing it and STOP. Partnership isn't about keeping score. Your kids didn't hire you to be their mom or ask to be born. Charging them for your love and attention will harm unschooling.
Give because you want to give. When you don't want to give anymore, stop giving and nourish yourself until you do. (Make a list of ways you can care for yourself quickly in depleted moments: smell a kid's hair, light a pretty candle, BREATHE, rub a few drops of essential oil in your palms and smell, dance, stretch or straighten your spine, wiggle your toes and circle your feet, watch a funny video, go for a walk around the block, run warm water on your hands, listen to music, sing, sit down and snuggle the kids/watch them play their game/watch a show with them, and check yourself for HALT -- hungry angry, lonely, tired.)
This has already been mentioned, but I'm going to give you a name for it, to help you notice when you're doing it -- it's called TRANSACTIONAL THINKING. Notice yourself doing it and STOP. Partnership isn't about keeping score. Your kids didn't hire you to be their mom or ask to be born. Charging them for your love and attention will harm unschooling.
Give because you want to give. When you don't want to give anymore, stop giving and nourish yourself until you do. (Make a list of ways you can care for yourself quickly in depleted moments: smell a kid's hair, light a pretty candle, BREATHE, rub a few drops of essential oil in your palms and smell, dance, stretch or straighten your spine, wiggle your toes and circle your feet, watch a funny video, go for a walk around the block, run warm water on your hands, listen to music, sing, sit down and snuggle the kids/watch them play their game/watch a show with them, and check yourself for HALT -- hungry angry, lonely, tired.)
>>I feel the kids take advantage of me<<
For someone who is giving when she doesn't want to, this is a real, valid fear (and probably a true past experience for you). Some people in the world WILL "take advantage" of you. NOT your kids though!
Change this thought to, "I am afraid of being taken advantage of. I want to be appreciated." Then you can ask for appreciation in ways your kids can deliver, OR you can choose *not* to do things you'll resent or ask to be paid for.
For someone who is giving when she doesn't want to, this is a real, valid fear (and probably a true past experience for you). Some people in the world WILL "take advantage" of you. NOT your kids though!
Change this thought to, "I am afraid of being taken advantage of. I want to be appreciated." Then you can ask for appreciation in ways your kids can deliver, OR you can choose *not* to do things you'll resent or ask to be paid for.
>>their strong willed personalities are conflicting with the environment that Unschooling should bring<<
#1) These words blame your kids for unschooling not working in your home. There are many valid reasons unschooling might not be a good fit for every family. But unschooling not working is NEVER the fault of the child or his personality not being a fit.
#2) "Unschooling should bring" This is more transactional thinking. You have been working so hard at doing unschooling right that you believe you are owed the results of good unschooling. That's not how it works. When you notice peace in your home, you are unschooling. Until then, you are trying out something new and if you get results you don't like, then make adjustments. "Unschooling should" implies that unschooling owes you something.
#1) These words blame your kids for unschooling not working in your home. There are many valid reasons unschooling might not be a good fit for every family. But unschooling not working is NEVER the fault of the child or his personality not being a fit.
#2) "Unschooling should bring" This is more transactional thinking. You have been working so hard at doing unschooling right that you believe you are owed the results of good unschooling. That's not how it works. When you notice peace in your home, you are unschooling. Until then, you are trying out something new and if you get results you don't like, then make adjustments. "Unschooling should" implies that unschooling owes you something.
>>I dont know what to do to reverse this mess<<
Well that's good news, because you don't have a time machine! There is no reversing, there is just slowing down and noticing what is happening. THIS is how learning feels outside of school. You are learning about yourself so that you can deschool yourself, to make room for unschooling to thrive in your household.
Well that's good news, because you don't have a time machine! There is no reversing, there is just slowing down and noticing what is happening. THIS is how learning feels outside of school. You are learning about yourself so that you can deschool yourself, to make room for unschooling to thrive in your household.
>>Our norm is not optimal for joy<<
#1) Don't get stuck in negative thinking or language. Don't think of your life as a norm. Just think of moments, opportunities to choose another way.
#2) I see this statement as you recognizing you are not doing unschooling well YET. Let this be a neutral fact that can guide you to improvement. Don't beat yourself up for not being good enough. Your fear of doing unschooling wrong can be the rails that keep you in check, so you know when to make corrections! But there is no need to feel ashamed of doing it wrong -- THAT is what learning is about. You didn't shame your babies for falling down when they were learning to walk; you encouraged them. You deserve to offer the same compassion and SLOW PACE to yourself as you learn. As you grow in compassion for yourself and your learning, you will have more compassion for your kids as they learn too.
~Tara <3
#1) Don't get stuck in negative thinking or language. Don't think of your life as a norm. Just think of moments, opportunities to choose another way.
#2) I see this statement as you recognizing you are not doing unschooling well YET. Let this be a neutral fact that can guide you to improvement. Don't beat yourself up for not being good enough. Your fear of doing unschooling wrong can be the rails that keep you in check, so you know when to make corrections! But there is no need to feel ashamed of doing it wrong -- THAT is what learning is about. You didn't shame your babies for falling down when they were learning to walk; you encouraged them. You deserve to offer the same compassion and SLOW PACE to yourself as you learn. As you grow in compassion for yourself and your learning, you will have more compassion for your kids as they learn too.
~Tara <3
semajrak@...
***You are not in your son's body or brain at the moment when he's taking baby steps to the car. You have no idea what his intentions are when he does this behavior.***
Occasionally still, he will run ahead and jump and twirl in the sand at the water's edge if there aren't many people around. It's something to see my 6' 2" son do that now. He'll hop around at home if he's excited about something too. Recently, I noticed that I do a little excited hopping around too when I'm excited and around people I love and trust. I'd never really noticed it before. It made me feel heartened to realize a little piece of the little girl I once was still lives on in me. Made me happy.
Karen James
Tara wrote that and it reminded me of a story from when Ethan, my son, was younger--I think he was six or seven or so. He used to come with me most of the time to the grocery store. He enjoyed coming. I enjoyed his company. For a period of time (a few/several months maybe), as soon as we walked through the doors of the store, Ethan would find patterns in the tiles on the floor and hop from tile to tile, sometimes taking baby steps, sometimes taking bigger leaps. At first, it irritated me a bit because I just wanted to walk normally and I didn't want him to accidentally hop into someone or in the way of someone shopping. I also didn't want him to accidentally hop into a display or knock something over. I told him not to do that, but it sincerely seemed to distress him not to match the patterns he was seeing to his movements across the floor. I could see the dismay in his eyes. I understood then that he wasn't trying to be difficult. Something else was going on.
I told him to be mindful of people and careful of where he hopped. He agreed. I agreed to be patient as he hopped from tile to tile in the patterns he was finding. It wasn't everywhere in the store. Just in places. He was so happy whenever he completed a pattern. Honestly, it was so lovely to see the joy in his eyes when he'd look up at me after the last hop, clearly feeling like he'd accomplished something great. I had to plan our shopping trips a bit differently. I walked where there were fewer people. We shopped at slower times. I went to smaller stores. It didn't last forever. At some point, he just walked in the store like anyone else. My family would have thought I was nuts if they had known. I didn't talk about it, but it's a very fond memory now.
Years later (I think he was fourteen or fifteen) he had been watching something on YouTube about OCD. He came to me and told me he thought he might have had a bit of OCD when he was younger. I asked him why he thought that. He told me about the show he had been watching, and he told me a few different things he remembered, one of them being a deep need to hop on tiled floors in patterns sometimes. He said if he didn't hop on the floor a certain way, he felt something terrible was going to happen. I said something like, "Well, you seemed to figure it out." He agreed.
I have no idea if Ethan was experiencing OCD. It had crossed my mind from time to time over the years, but there hasn't been any need to look into it further because he has always seemed to work through it. When I first met his dad, I remember Doug used to do this curious thing. He'd tap one knee, then he'd tap the other. He'd go back and forth for quite a while, sometimes seeming unable to move until he'd satisfied something. I didn't know what. I wondered if it was music. I thought it was sweet. I can still picture him doing that. He was 19 years old then. I asked Doug about it recently. Doug said, like Ethan, he felt a deep need to find patterns. For him it was symmetry, and he looked for it in the tapping of his knees. He said if he couldn't achieve it, he felt quite distressed. He doesn't do that anymore either.
Please understand that I share this story not to suggest there might be a problem with the son who takes baby steps to the car. I didn't see Ethan's need to hop in patterns as a problem. What I saw, what I looked at, was how much hopping in patterns seemed to matter to him. I could have seen a problem. I could have seen an inconvenience. I could have seen a defiant boy. I saw a sweet kid needing to work out something his way. I looked for creative ways to help him do that. I didn't know what was going on in his mind for nearly ten years. He has recently developed a love of mathematics and music. Is that connected? Maybe. Who knows?! Sometimes we might never know, but we can always assume the best, especially with the people we love most and care to have meaningful relationships with.
There were other times when Ethan would hop around exuberant in a reverie about a game he was into. He wasn't always in search of patterns. Sometimes he was simply feeding his imagination. Whenever I could, I made room for him to live in the world in ways that suited his needs and supported his explorations. I did coach him to fit in when I thought that was important. He doesn't hop from tile to tile anymore, or exuberantly skip though public places. He's sixteen now and is fully aware of place and convention. He still finds patterns everywhere though and happily points them out. I do too now. His love of patterns has inspired me. That's one of the really cool things about unschooling, I think.
I told him to be mindful of people and careful of where he hopped. He agreed. I agreed to be patient as he hopped from tile to tile in the patterns he was finding. It wasn't everywhere in the store. Just in places. He was so happy whenever he completed a pattern. Honestly, it was so lovely to see the joy in his eyes when he'd look up at me after the last hop, clearly feeling like he'd accomplished something great. I had to plan our shopping trips a bit differently. I walked where there were fewer people. We shopped at slower times. I went to smaller stores. It didn't last forever. At some point, he just walked in the store like anyone else. My family would have thought I was nuts if they had known. I didn't talk about it, but it's a very fond memory now.
Years later (I think he was fourteen or fifteen) he had been watching something on YouTube about OCD. He came to me and told me he thought he might have had a bit of OCD when he was younger. I asked him why he thought that. He told me about the show he had been watching, and he told me a few different things he remembered, one of them being a deep need to hop on tiled floors in patterns sometimes. He said if he didn't hop on the floor a certain way, he felt something terrible was going to happen. I said something like, "Well, you seemed to figure it out." He agreed.
I have no idea if Ethan was experiencing OCD. It had crossed my mind from time to time over the years, but there hasn't been any need to look into it further because he has always seemed to work through it. When I first met his dad, I remember Doug used to do this curious thing. He'd tap one knee, then he'd tap the other. He'd go back and forth for quite a while, sometimes seeming unable to move until he'd satisfied something. I didn't know what. I wondered if it was music. I thought it was sweet. I can still picture him doing that. He was 19 years old then. I asked Doug about it recently. Doug said, like Ethan, he felt a deep need to find patterns. For him it was symmetry, and he looked for it in the tapping of his knees. He said if he couldn't achieve it, he felt quite distressed. He doesn't do that anymore either.
Please understand that I share this story not to suggest there might be a problem with the son who takes baby steps to the car. I didn't see Ethan's need to hop in patterns as a problem. What I saw, what I looked at, was how much hopping in patterns seemed to matter to him. I could have seen a problem. I could have seen an inconvenience. I could have seen a defiant boy. I saw a sweet kid needing to work out something his way. I looked for creative ways to help him do that. I didn't know what was going on in his mind for nearly ten years. He has recently developed a love of mathematics and music. Is that connected? Maybe. Who knows?! Sometimes we might never know, but we can always assume the best, especially with the people we love most and care to have meaningful relationships with.
There were other times when Ethan would hop around exuberant in a reverie about a game he was into. He wasn't always in search of patterns. Sometimes he was simply feeding his imagination. Whenever I could, I made room for him to live in the world in ways that suited his needs and supported his explorations. I did coach him to fit in when I thought that was important. He doesn't hop from tile to tile anymore, or exuberantly skip though public places. He's sixteen now and is fully aware of place and convention. He still finds patterns everywhere though and happily points them out. I do too now. His love of patterns has inspired me. That's one of the really cool things about unschooling, I think.
Occasionally still, he will run ahead and jump and twirl in the sand at the water's edge if there aren't many people around. It's something to see my 6' 2" son do that now. He'll hop around at home if he's excited about something too. Recently, I noticed that I do a little excited hopping around too when I'm excited and around people I love and trust. I'd never really noticed it before. It made me feel heartened to realize a little piece of the little girl I once was still lives on in me. Made me happy.
Karen James
Sandra Dodd
-=-It wasn't everywhere in the store. Just in places. He was so happy whenever he completed a pattern. Honestly, it was so lovely to see the joy in his eyes when he'd look up at me after the last hop, clearly feeling like he'd accomplished something great. I had to plan our shopping trips a bit differently. I walked where there were fewer people. We shopped at slower times. I went to smaller stores. It didn't last forever. At some point, he just walked in the store like anyone else. My family would have thought I was nuts if they had known. I didn't talk about it, but it's a very fond memory now. -=-
That’s sweet.
Marty, my middle kid, when he was three or four, had a grocery-store-floor thing. He did it half a dozen times, usually in the same place.
I had learned to wait until Keith was home to go to the store, and I could leave a child or two home, and just take one.
The store had a mopping/waxing machine that put a thick, clear, reflective finish. Marty would lie face-down on an untouched place, flat out, and wave his arms and legs like he was making snow angels, but looking at the reflections of the movements in the floor. The first time, I was embarrassed, but I didn’t say anything, and an older man who worked there saw him and smiled.
Marty wasn’t in anyone’s way. It was late, and quiet, and very clean. :-)
So the other times he did that, I left my cart so that no one could have passed by, and listened to see if anyone was coming from the other way. He was only witnessed a couple of times, and nobody even gave us a dirty look about it. It would last 20 seconds, maybe, and Marty was happy.
-=- Doug said, like Ethan, he felt a deep need to find patterns. -=-
My husband, Keith, was the son and grandson of engineers (both grandfathers worked in automotive design and manufacture in the early 20th century). He became an engineer, though it was software, for him—graphics interfaces, generally. Once Keith and I were talking about how we saw the world, as children, and what we remembered about how we self-comforted, and learned in our own ways. He said he always saw patterns. His main interests were music and math, too. :-)
Of our three children, one is very much like Keith, and that’s that floor-flying Marty. Marty could work a nine-square puzzle in a minute. He could assemble furniture or small appliances right out of th box. He could set cheap little Chinese clocks without English instructions.
Eventually, Marty got a degree in economics, minor in geography. With that, he worked for the water authority, doing routine things, as an intern, and after he graduated, and as they knew what he could do, they put him on a mapping project. It wasn’t because of the degree. The degree didn’t qualify him for any of their jobs long terms. They need biology or geology.
This was his last week there, and he’s moving on to another job involving maps, somehow. It’s a contract job that’s somewhat classified. (I think it’s industrial/business trade secrets, and not a government contract.) But it is all about patterns—programs, parameters, borders, boundaries, changes to grids, etc.
I’ve written something about this kind of thinking just this week elsewhere in this group, about what schools love to “scientifically” refer to as dyslexia. Trying to apply that pattern thinking to written English doesn’t work very well. English is resistant to grids and graphs and patterns. It can result in the future-engineer types, and sometimes the (mostly male) musicians, having a more difficult time reading than others their age.
My advice: support, appreciate, accept kids’ ways of exploring the world around them. One toddler might want to taste; one wants to throw; on wants to see what it takes to break the thing. Keep them safe, and things safe, and if you can find them things to taste, throw, and take apart in a peaceful life, watch them learn like crazy!
Sandra
That’s sweet.
Marty, my middle kid, when he was three or four, had a grocery-store-floor thing. He did it half a dozen times, usually in the same place.
I had learned to wait until Keith was home to go to the store, and I could leave a child or two home, and just take one.
The store had a mopping/waxing machine that put a thick, clear, reflective finish. Marty would lie face-down on an untouched place, flat out, and wave his arms and legs like he was making snow angels, but looking at the reflections of the movements in the floor. The first time, I was embarrassed, but I didn’t say anything, and an older man who worked there saw him and smiled.
Marty wasn’t in anyone’s way. It was late, and quiet, and very clean. :-)
So the other times he did that, I left my cart so that no one could have passed by, and listened to see if anyone was coming from the other way. He was only witnessed a couple of times, and nobody even gave us a dirty look about it. It would last 20 seconds, maybe, and Marty was happy.
-=- Doug said, like Ethan, he felt a deep need to find patterns. -=-
My husband, Keith, was the son and grandson of engineers (both grandfathers worked in automotive design and manufacture in the early 20th century). He became an engineer, though it was software, for him—graphics interfaces, generally. Once Keith and I were talking about how we saw the world, as children, and what we remembered about how we self-comforted, and learned in our own ways. He said he always saw patterns. His main interests were music and math, too. :-)
Of our three children, one is very much like Keith, and that’s that floor-flying Marty. Marty could work a nine-square puzzle in a minute. He could assemble furniture or small appliances right out of th box. He could set cheap little Chinese clocks without English instructions.
Eventually, Marty got a degree in economics, minor in geography. With that, he worked for the water authority, doing routine things, as an intern, and after he graduated, and as they knew what he could do, they put him on a mapping project. It wasn’t because of the degree. The degree didn’t qualify him for any of their jobs long terms. They need biology or geology.
This was his last week there, and he’s moving on to another job involving maps, somehow. It’s a contract job that’s somewhat classified. (I think it’s industrial/business trade secrets, and not a government contract.) But it is all about patterns—programs, parameters, borders, boundaries, changes to grids, etc.
I’ve written something about this kind of thinking just this week elsewhere in this group, about what schools love to “scientifically” refer to as dyslexia. Trying to apply that pattern thinking to written English doesn’t work very well. English is resistant to grids and graphs and patterns. It can result in the future-engineer types, and sometimes the (mostly male) musicians, having a more difficult time reading than others their age.
My advice: support, appreciate, accept kids’ ways of exploring the world around them. One toddler might want to taste; one wants to throw; on wants to see what it takes to break the thing. Keep them safe, and things safe, and if you can find them things to taste, throw, and take apart in a peaceful life, watch them learn like crazy!
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Karen James wrote:
________
He still finds patterns everywhere though and happily points them out. I do too now. His love of patterns has inspired me. That's one of the really cool things about unschooling, I think.
Occasionally still, he will run ahead and jump and twirl in the sand at the water's edge if there aren't many people around. It's something to see my 6' 2" son do that now. He'll hop around at home if he's excited about something too. Recently, I noticed that I do a little excited hopping around too when I'm excited and around people I love and trust. I'd never really noticed it before. It made me feel heartened to realize a little piece of the little girl I once was still lives on in me. Made me happy.
__________
That writing is too beautiful just to live in the Always Learning archives. But to anyone who has only joined this group recently, there are a thousand things in the archives too beautiful to live only here. Yet many are only here. :-)
When you have a question, try searching this group. You will find some wonderful things.
Sandra
________
He still finds patterns everywhere though and happily points them out. I do too now. His love of patterns has inspired me. That's one of the really cool things about unschooling, I think.
Occasionally still, he will run ahead and jump and twirl in the sand at the water's edge if there aren't many people around. It's something to see my 6' 2" son do that now. He'll hop around at home if he's excited about something too. Recently, I noticed that I do a little excited hopping around too when I'm excited and around people I love and trust. I'd never really noticed it before. It made me feel heartened to realize a little piece of the little girl I once was still lives on in me. Made me happy.
__________
That writing is too beautiful just to live in the Always Learning archives. But to anyone who has only joined this group recently, there are a thousand things in the archives too beautiful to live only here. Yet many are only here. :-)
When you have a question, try searching this group. You will find some wonderful things.
Sandra