Saying yes conditionally
Willa Ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Cooper" <ken@...>>
> An issue that I am grappling with now is how to balance the self direction
> and trust of my children with the needs of our family.
I've been wondering about another spin-off on this basic question.
I'm noticing recently that I have a habit of answering requests with another
request, with my kids especially as they get older.
Teen: Could you make some cookies, mom?
Me: OK.... will you bring in a couple of armfuls of firewood?
I do it a bit with my younger kids too but not as much. The thing is the
younger kids are usually happy and honored to be asked to help (and if they
aren't I let it drop), while the teenager.... not so much, perhaps.
From my perspective, it seems like a way not to get personally overloaded
with work. But I'm wondering if to my teen it looks like a conditional
"yes". And also thinking that it probably IS a conditional yes. "OK, I'll
do it IF you do this."
Is this modelling a real-life principle, that we work as a team --or just
teaching the child to see a relationship in a bargaining, mercenary way??
Hmm, just writing it out clarifies it a bit but I'd still like to know if
anyone has any comments or if there is a website resource on this
question -- I'm sure it's come up before.
Willa
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/26/2006 11:20:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
willa@... writes:
Maybe re-wording it, if you honestly need help...like
Teen: Could you make some cookies mom?
Me: Well, I really need to get some firewood into the house or we will run
out. Could you do that for me so I can get started on the cookies?
I guess it's still conditional, but honest...there's times I would gladly do
things for someone if I just had enough time to do it all. Splitting stuff
up between us sometimes gives me that time.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
willa@... writes:
>>Teen: Could you make some cookies, mom?Me: OK.... will you bring in a couple of armfuls of firewood?<<
Maybe re-wording it, if you honestly need help...like
Teen: Could you make some cookies mom?
Me: Well, I really need to get some firewood into the house or we will run
out. Could you do that for me so I can get started on the cookies?
I guess it's still conditional, but honest...there's times I would gladly do
things for someone if I just had enough time to do it all. Splitting stuff
up between us sometimes gives me that time.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Willa Ryan <willa@...>
I'm noticing recently that I have a habit of answering requests with
another
request, with my kids especially as they get older.
Teen: Could you make some cookies, mom?
Me: OK.... will you bring in a couple of armfuls of firewood?
--=-=-
I think it's fine as long as it works the other way too:
Mom: Could you bring in a couple of armloads of firewood?
Teen: OK, will you bake some cookies?
If they don't have the same opportunity, it could seem manipulative.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
From: Willa Ryan <willa@...>
I'm noticing recently that I have a habit of answering requests with
another
request, with my kids especially as they get older.
Teen: Could you make some cookies, mom?
Me: OK.... will you bring in a couple of armfuls of firewood?
--=-=-
I think it's fine as long as it works the other way too:
Mom: Could you bring in a couple of armloads of firewood?
Teen: OK, will you bake some cookies?
If they don't have the same opportunity, it could seem manipulative.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
Bling Williams
We do that. It's all give and take. Although R has taken to dropping to the floor groaning and saying 'I need the cookies before I get the laundry off the line. For strength!'
Someone should give that boy an Oscar ;-)
:-)
S
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Willa Ryan <willa@...>
I'm noticing recently that I have a habit of answering requests with
another
request, with my kids especially as they get older.
Teen: Could you make some cookies, mom?
Me: OK.... will you bring in a couple of armfuls of firewood?
--=-=-
I think it's fine as long as it works the other way too:
Mom: Could you bring in a couple of armloads of firewood?
Teen: OK, will you bake some cookies?
If they don't have the same opportunity, it could seem manipulative.
~Kelly
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
www.celyn.org
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Someone should give that boy an Oscar ;-)
:-)
S
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Willa Ryan <willa@...>
I'm noticing recently that I have a habit of answering requests with
another
request, with my kids especially as they get older.
Teen: Could you make some cookies, mom?
Me: OK.... will you bring in a couple of armfuls of firewood?
--=-=-
I think it's fine as long as it works the other way too:
Mom: Could you bring in a couple of armloads of firewood?
Teen: OK, will you bake some cookies?
If they don't have the same opportunity, it could seem manipulative.
~Kelly
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
www.celyn.org
---------------------------------
Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Apr 28, 2006, at 2:35 AM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
What I was thinking was that if it's a related request, or actually
facilitates the cookie-making then it makes sense.
If Holly says, "Would you make quesadillas?" I sometimes say "Could
you grate the cheese?" And while she's doing that, I do all the rest.
Actually she usually says "Would you help me make a quesadilla?" and
I ask her what part she wants me to do. But if she said "Would you
make quesadillas?" and I said "Yes, if you will mop the floor," that
would seem kind of like a no, to me (and maybe to her), or like she
had to earn my help.
If she asks me to watch a movie with her, I might say "Okay, but will
you turn the water off in the yard while I switch the laundry?"
Sometimes there are preparations for sitting down for an hour and a
half. Sometimes there are preparations for making quesadillas.
If you needed firewood to make cookies because you have a wood stove,
then asking for firewood makes total sense.
Sandra
> think it's fine as long as it works the other way too:GOOD POINT!
>
> Mom: Could you bring in a couple of armloads of firewood?
>
> Teen: OK, will you bake some cookies?
>
> If they don't have the same opportunity, it could seem manipulative.
What I was thinking was that if it's a related request, or actually
facilitates the cookie-making then it makes sense.
If Holly says, "Would you make quesadillas?" I sometimes say "Could
you grate the cheese?" And while she's doing that, I do all the rest.
Actually she usually says "Would you help me make a quesadilla?" and
I ask her what part she wants me to do. But if she said "Would you
make quesadillas?" and I said "Yes, if you will mop the floor," that
would seem kind of like a no, to me (and maybe to her), or like she
had to earn my help.
If she asks me to watch a movie with her, I might say "Okay, but will
you turn the water off in the yard while I switch the laundry?"
Sometimes there are preparations for sitting down for an hour and a
half. Sometimes there are preparations for making quesadillas.
If you needed firewood to make cookies because you have a wood stove,
then asking for firewood makes total sense.
Sandra
Jenniffer Baltzell
Or if the house needs to stay warm and you're going to have your hands in
cookie dough for an hour or so. I find myself doing this as well. If I'm
going to be engaged in this activity for the next little while, then I need
somebody to pick up the slack elsewhere. The relationship may not be
obvious, and explaining your thinking might be necessary. I sometimes have
to ask myself if I'm not just asking for work in return for work, though. I
tend to get irrationally miffed when I'm working hard and everyone else is
having fun, so I have to do a self-check before I make these kinds of
requests.
--
Jenniffer in Harpers Ferry
Listen, are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life? ~Mary Oliver
cookie dough for an hour or so. I find myself doing this as well. If I'm
going to be engaged in this activity for the next little while, then I need
somebody to pick up the slack elsewhere. The relationship may not be
obvious, and explaining your thinking might be necessary. I sometimes have
to ask myself if I'm not just asking for work in return for work, though. I
tend to get irrationally miffed when I'm working hard and everyone else is
having fun, so I have to do a self-check before I make these kinds of
requests.
--
Jenniffer in Harpers Ferry
Listen, are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life? ~Mary Oliver
On 4/28/06, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> If you needed firewood to make cookies because you have a wood stove,
> then asking for firewood makes total sense.
>
> Sandra
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Willa Ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: <CelticFrau@...>
> I guess it's still conditional, but honest...there's times I would gladly
> do
> things for someone if I just had enough time to do it all. Splitting
> stuff
> up between us sometimes gives me that time.
>
Ahh, OK, that would be my motive too.
That helps.
In my family of origin, it seemed like my mom COULD do it all.... on the
other hand, I wouldn't have asked her to make cookies when I was a teenager.
I like the fact that my kids ask me for things. On the other hand, I do
have a long checklist and so asking for their help getting through it helps
make my reaction to their requests more positive.
Willa
Willa Ryan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jenniffer Baltzell" <jjfbaltzell@...>
> Or if the house needs to stay warm and you're going to have your hands in
> cookie dough for an hour or so. I find myself doing this as well. If I'm
> going to be engaged in this activity for the next little while, then I
> need
> somebody to pick up the slack elsewhere. The relationship may not be
> obvious, and explaining your thinking might be necessary. I sometimes
> have
> to ask myself if I'm not just asking for work in return for work, though.
> I
> tend to get irrationally miffed when I'm working hard and everyone else is
> having fun, so I have to do a self-check before I make these kinds of
> requests.
>
Me too. Explaining this to my 13yo might help him not to see it as a
bargaining issue. Which I don't intend it to be, but sometimes a sort of
"if--then" feeling creeps into it to me, so perhaps it does to him.
It sort of related in my mind to Ken's point about mom having a lot of the
leverage to offer good things, how that might possibly become a nice but
real use of power, almost "force". Maybe sometimes I'll try just offering
to make cookies when I have a couple of spare moments free, so it isn't
always a give/take type thing.
Willa
Sandra Dodd
On Apr 28, 2006, at 7:45 AM, Jenniffer Baltzell wrote:
people in these unschooling discussions have written about doing what
we do as gifts for their families.
I don't get mad if I give someone a gift and they don't give me a gift.
And another goal I have, besides peace in the family and a
comfortable environment for my children, is to be as good a person as
I can be, to make good decisions for the benefit of being a better
person, a good person, of integrity. So if I find myself feeling
resentful I might just ask for help, but I might do some "self talk"
and remind myself that that "I'm a martyr" whining is never
attractive, and rarely true and fair.
Joyce writes about that better than anyone, but I don't remember if
it was Joyce's idea in the first place. I know there's some writing
about it linked at the chores page:
http://sandradodd.com/chores
Sandra
> II do that too. What has helped me more than anything are things
> tend to get irrationally miffed when I'm working hard and everyone
> else is
> having fun, so I have to do a self-check before I make these kinds of
> requests.
people in these unschooling discussions have written about doing what
we do as gifts for their families.
I don't get mad if I give someone a gift and they don't give me a gift.
And another goal I have, besides peace in the family and a
comfortable environment for my children, is to be as good a person as
I can be, to make good decisions for the benefit of being a better
person, a good person, of integrity. So if I find myself feeling
resentful I might just ask for help, but I might do some "self talk"
and remind myself that that "I'm a martyr" whining is never
attractive, and rarely true and fair.
Joyce writes about that better than anyone, but I don't remember if
it was Joyce's idea in the first place. I know there's some writing
about it linked at the chores page:
http://sandradodd.com/chores
Sandra
Bling Williams
Willa Ryan <willa@...> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jenniffer Baltzell" <jjfbaltzell@...>
> Or if the house needs to stay warm and you're going to have your hands in
> cookie dough for an hour or so. I find myself doing this as well. If I'm
> going to be engaged in this activity for the next little while, then I
> need
> somebody to pick up the slack elsewhere. The relationship may not be
> obvious, and explaining your thinking might be necessary. I sometimes
> have
> to ask myself if I'm not just asking for work in return for work, though.
> I
> tend to get irrationally miffed when I'm working hard and everyone else is
> having fun, so I have to do a self-check before I make these kinds of
> requests.
>
Me too. Explaining this to my 13yo might help him not to see it as a
bargaining issue. Which I don't intend it to be, but sometimes a sort of
"if--then" feeling creeps into it to me, so perhaps it does to him.
It sort of related in my mind to Ken's point about mom having a lot of the
leverage to offer good things, how that might possibly become a nice but
real use of power, almost "force". Maybe sometimes I'll try just offering
to make cookies when I have a couple of spare moments free, so it isn't
always a give/take type thing.
Willa
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