Amie

I haven't posted here in awhile, but I wanted to see if anyone can help with this "situation" we are having. We recently (about 2 months ago) bought a PS2, and my boys were thrilled (age 8). They have gotten many games and have been having lots of fun. Eric is not reading yet, and I think these games are making him frustrated. I am having a hard time figuring out the problem, but I am guessing it is because he has T rated games that require reading in alot of cases. He will ask us to tell him what some things say, but other times he chooses to skip over certain parts, which I think is making it very difficult to beat the games. He was used to playing games on his game boy and beating them.

He has become very sullen and just not the happy kid that I know. He constantly talks about how he wants this game and that game, but then when we get them he plays for awhile and then says they are stupid. He is so on edge that he will not talk about things in a very calm way. This is new ground for me and I am having a hard time. I don't know how to help him. His new idea is that the PS2 stinks and that now he wants a GameCube. It just keeps changing from new games to new systems to new this and that. He is searching for something but I don't know what! He has become mean and nasty to us and I know he is hurting,so I desperately want to help him.

Any ideas/suggestions/questions to ask myself or Eric?

Thank you!
Amie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 20, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Amie wrote:

> I haven't posted here in awhile, but I wanted to see if anyone can
> help with this "situation" we are having. We recently (about 2
> months ago) bought a PS2, and my boys were thrilled (age 8). They
> have gotten many games and have been having lots of fun. Eric is
> not reading yet, and I think these games are making him frustrated.

There is a list for unschooled kids, about games. Maybe you could
join it and read the archives, and then maybe pose your question if
you don't get ideas from that. If you tell them what kind of games
Eric likes that might help.

Also you could look online for a "walkthrough" for the game, and
watch him play, see what place it is where he's stuck, and read just
that part of the walkthrough to him. I did that with Holly when she
was playing Harvest Moon but she wasn't reading yet.

That gaming list is linked here:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/other

Sandra

Amie

Thank you for the games list, I will give it a try. The thing is, he doesn't really talk about the games being frustrating because of the reading. I am just guessing. In general he seems discontent. It just seems like since he started playing these games he has changed. It seems like he gets a "fix" by buying a new game, gets frustrated because he can't beat it right away, then sets his sights on the next new game. It drives me crazy when every few days he is begging for some new game. Honestly, we have spent alot of money on games and renting games, until I realized that he never seems satisfied.

I will try to offer the help of a walkthrough to see if that changes things.

Thanks!
Amie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan McGlohn

At 09:05 PM 2/20/2006, you wrote:
>Thank you for the games list, I will give it a try. The thing is, he
>doesn't really talk about the games being frustrating because of the
>reading. I am just guessing.

Amie,

I would talk to him, instead of just guessing.

> In general he seems discontent. It just seems like since he started
> playing these games he has changed. It seems like he gets a "fix" by
> buying a new game, gets frustrated because he can't beat it right away,
> then sets his sights on the next new game. It drives me crazy when every
> few days he is begging for some new game. Honestly, we have spent alot of
> money on games and renting games, until I realized that he never seems
> satisfied.


So what did you do when you realized it? What was your response? Did you
stop renting games and buying them? Did you put a limit on how many he can
have or when he can get a new one? That would certainly feed a frustration
to think that you are stuck with this stupid game that you can't get past
level 3 on and there is no new game in sight for a while.

You are already making value judgements, just in the words you are choosing
to use to describe it...as if he is a junkie. My guess is you weren't
really thrilled about getting it in the first place.

He is 8 years old, with a brand new gaming system, and he is passionate
about it right now. It has only been 2 months. That is a relatively short
time for a new system, so he is probably still learning how it works, and
yes, they do talk about it it a lot and it is where his learning is taking
place right now.

First of all, a PS2 is more difficult, in my opinion, than a gameboy or a
game cube or even the XBox. But I am partial to Nintendo products, so I
might be biased in my opinion, too. I have found that GameCube has a
better selection of games for all ages...plus I adore all things Pokemon.

Secondly, have you played the games yourself? Have you tried it? You need
to really get into his world and his passion. It is part of unschooling a
child.

Have you sat with him while he is playing and encouraged him, brought him
his favorite snacks, empathized with him when he is frustrated?


Susan M (VA)
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html

"I am taking this opportunity to tell you that I am untraditional. I teach
my kids about the things that really matter. I will teach them about
Abraham Lincoln and Ronnie Van Sandt, because they are equally important in
my house. " ~Jessie Baylor, Elizabethtown



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Momma

I don't know if you have a Blockbuster near you, but if you do you could try
a game pass. It has been a huge money saver for us. My son is a die-hard
gamer and wants to switch out his games daily, sometimes twice a day. We
could never afford his passion if it wasn't for his game pass. Of course,
the gas going back and forth is another story:-).

Well, off to Blockbuster for the second time today.

-Dawn





* Thank you for the games list, I will give it a try. The thing is, he
doesn't really talk about the games being frustrating because of the
reading. I am just guessing. In general he seems discontent. It just seems
like since he started playing these games he has changed. It seems like he
gets a "fix" by buying a new game, gets frustrated because he can't beat it
right away, then sets his sights on the next new game. It drives me crazy
when every few days he is begging for some new game. Honestly, we have spent
alot of money on games and renting games, until I realized that he never
seems satisfied.








_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Momma

_____

My son also told me to recommend to you cheat codes. It's not really
cheating since the makers of the games create them and make them known. He
says it might make it easier to get through the stages of the game. My son
completely researches a game before he gets it, cheats and also checking to
see what gamers rated the games. It's great research and makes the games
more enjoyable for him. Maybe you could do it with him and see what you
find. Gaming is a wonderful asset to a child's life. He just may need help
getting started. You can find several cheat websites through Google.

-Dawn







I don't know if you have a Blockbuster near you, but if you do you could try
a game pass. It has been a huge money saver for us. My son is a die-hard
gamer and wants to switch out his games daily, sometimes twice a day. We
could never afford his passion if it wasn't for his game pass. Of course,
the gas going back and forth is another story:-).

Well, off to Blockbuster for the second time today.

-Dawn













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Sandra Dodd

On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Amie wrote:

> I will try to offer the help of a walkthrough to see if that
> changes things.


Instead of offering it, though, just find it. Watch him. Read.
Find the place. Offer the practical advice.

To ask him "Do you want me to find a walkthrough and then watch you
play and then read it and..." probably will get a frustration answer,
I would guess. Could be wrong.

Sandra

Jane

Hi Amie,

We have an 8 year old "gamer" in our home as well. He started slowly, needing either dh or I there to read to him (he's since learned to read), encourage him, or even to help with the games. He sat and played and played. Sometimes he became *really* frustrated. Still does.

That was December of 2004. We bought him Ty 2: Bush Rescue on Sunday. He's played through to the credits (he's been through the entire game) three times so far. This morning though, we spent a good 40 minutes on line looking for a walkthrough then googling this and that for the help he needed.

I've become his "Minister of Information". I read through the books that come inside the games and offer anything I think might help. I find and deliver walkthroughs when needed. I read things on the screen (some games have an option where they can read things to you) and from the walkthrough. I help him brainstorm. I listen and ask questions about his game. We talk about how some games are similar and others stink, how some things are cool, and what we'd change. On occasion, I've heard profanity and explained what the words meant and what profanity is. In short, I'm there with him as much as he needs me and I am able.

Play the games. They're hard!! I can't quite get myself past thinking "if I want to jump, I have to press 'X'", rather than just pressing the key, as ds does. I can ram Spyro (a character from a game) into more walls and miss more jumps than you can count!! I can also wreak a fair amount of havoc with Sly Cooper (another game character). It may look easy, but it's not.

Ask your son questions. Explain what the walkthrough is. Offer it to him. Offer him options for help, if he feels he needs it (try the Yahoo group, ask at the store, the walkthrough, google the part where he's stuck, feel free to e-mail me and I'll ask ds!!). My son didn't want help until he became more proficient with the controller and not having to think to make a character do this or that. Unil then, he spent a good part of his day working to master basic functions.

Perhaps games which aren't "T" would be a better bet for him to be able to learn on? I'm thinking that since the games are geared to teens, perhaps they're also needing a higher skill set as well?? We have *lots* of games to suggest!!

Hope that helps some!!

Happy gaming, :-)
Jane




Jane Powell
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amie

The thing is, he
>doesn't really talk about the games being frustrating because of the reading. I am just guessing.>

Susan wrote:
I would talk to him, instead of just guessing.

I say:

I have tried talking to him. He gets more frustrated. I have also tried looking up the walkthroughs, and he says it doesn't help. This is what is frustrating. I keep thinking there is more to his frustration but I can't figure it out. He is pretty impatient. He wants to beat it right now. He thinks if he can't beat it within a day or so, then he can't do it at all. Trying to help him seems to frustrate him more. And, he isn't asking for my help, so if I offer, it seems to make him mad. I do try to look up the games myself and offer some suggestions, most of the time, he won't take the help. But maybe I am going about it wrong, that's what I am trying to figure out.


Susan says:
<What was your response? Did you stop renting games and buying them? Did you put a limit on how many he can have or when he can get a new one? That would certainly feed a frustration to think that you are stuck with this stupid game that you can't get past level 3 on and there is no new game in sight for a while.

I say:

We did not stop renting games, we were going about every day. However, this was getting a bit expensive. The games are $7 to rent, and he has a brother that wants games too. So, we were spending about $50 a week, which we just can't continue. But the biggest factor was that he was just not happy with anything, which led to me trying to help him figure out where the frustration was coming from. I felt like I was making it worse by continuing to get new games when he was already so angry and frustrated.

Susan said:

<You are already making value judgments, just in the words you are choosing to use to describe it...as if he is a junkie. My guess is you weren't really thrilled about getting it in the first place.>

I say:

If it sounds like I am making judgments, that is not what I intended. I think you are judging me by telling me I think he is a junkie. That is not true. I am happy to see him so excited about something. However, it seems to be making him unhappy, which makes me want to help. When I can't help him, it is difficult for me. So, I was merely stating my frustration and sadness that he seems discontent. And, I was thrilled to get it for them. They could choose which system they wanted, and they both voted for the PS2. I didn't grudgingly take them to the store and say, Ok, if you HAVE TO have this, go ahead, with a big frown on my face. It was done in pure excitement to see them get what they want.

You said:

<Have you sat with him while he is playing and encouraged him, brought him his favorite snacks, empathized with him when he is frustrated?>

I say:

Yes, to all of these. What I am saying is, these things don't seem to be helping. I want him to enjoy it.


We are looking into a GameCube. I am just so hesitant because of the frustration with this. Am I just transferring the frustration to a different system? It is so hard to know what to do. Not to mention the expense. Games are not cheap. We just bought the Guitar Hero for the PS2 less than a week ago, and they are already bored with it. How does everyone else out there deal with the money issue?

Thanks,
Amie









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

I also think the games on the PS2 are harder.

My daughter who is 8 does alot more with the Gamecube than the PS2.

My son plays all the games and all the game systems, he also recommends the Gamecube first, for younger kids. We bought the PS2 first, but ended up buying the Gamecube after. :)

I would just keep reading with him and just keep voicing his frustration with him, helping him to breathe through it. It can be soo aggravating to work on some of these for so long and still not conquer it.

I think you can get the Gamecubes pretty inexpensively now.

Kelli~

***if your son likes computer games too, have you tried Mount and Blade? Its a free online game for the first levels. My then 7 yr old gaming nephew really liked that. He has since learned to read from playing Final Fantasy XI, an online multi-playing game. :-D


Here's the link for the game: http://www.mofunzone.com/download_games/mount_and_blade.shtml




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Momma

We are looking into a GameCube. I am just so hesitant because of the
frustration with this. Am I just transferring the frustration to a different
system? It is so hard to know what to do. Not to mention the expense. Games
are not cheap. We just bought the Guitar Hero for the PS2 less than a week
ago, and they are already bored with it. How does everyone else out there
deal with the money issue?

Thanks,
Amie

I think I mentioned it before, but if you have a Blockbuster near you he can
get a Game pass. It's less than $25 a month and they can switch out the
games as often as they want. My son switches his games out almost every day,
sometimes twice a day. We would not be able to afford my son's gaming
passion if it wasn't for the game pass. Also, every one in our family
(parents included) gets an allotted amount of money to spend every week on
anything we want. (I guess you could call it an allowance but it's not tied
to chores or behavior.) This is how my son buys games that he wants to
purchase.

-Dawn in Texas







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Sandra Dodd

On Feb 22, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Amie wrote:

> If it sounds like I am making judgments, that is not what I
> intended. I think you are judging me by telling me I think he is a
> junkie.


That's okay, Amie. This list is not a "soothe moms and say they're
doing great" list. If you choose to bring your unschooling concerns
and issues and parenting difficulties here, people WILL try to help
you, and they'll try to help you in ways that would make your
relationship with your child better, and your family life better, and
help you get unschooling.

If it sounds like you're making judgments from what you wrote, it
doesn't matter what you intended. Choose your words carefully and
only post what you really mean to say. It's hard, but worth it. And
if it doesn't seem worth it, then please don't criticize the ideas
you get. Just ignore the ones you don't like. Try the ones that
seem like they might help.

http://sandradodd.com/unschool/gettingit

Maybe read some other people's accounts of how they moved from
frustration to calm, about unschooling. Or from confusion to
excitement.

-=-We are looking into a GameCube. I am just so hesitant because of
the frustration with this. Am I just transferring the frustration to
a different system?-=-

You should be able to get a used GameCube AND a bunch of games,
probably.
Used games might be better than rental games anyway, even for the
playstation.

-=-How does everyone else out there deal with the money issue? -=-

Breathe.

Breathe in how much you love your children and you want them to
experience joy and learning and fun and togetherness, and breathe out
that there are only a few years that they're young.

Breathe in that if they were in school you would HAVE to spend money
on supplies, backpacks, special fees, materials, musical instruments
or sports equipment, stylish new clothes, transportation and lunch.
Breathe out that all those expenses dissipate when you're unschooling.

Breathe in the knowledge that holding your breath in hesitation and
fear only adds hesitation and fear to your lives. Breathe out peace.

Sandra

Susan McGlohn

At 11:19 AM 2/22/2006, you wrote:

><You are already making value judgments, just in the words you are
>choosing to use to describe it...as if he is a junkie. My guess is you
>weren't really thrilled about getting it in the first place.>
>
>I say:
>
>If it sounds like I am making judgments, that is not what I intended. I
>think you are judging me by telling me I think he is a junkie.


Sorry if I offended you, but you were the one talking about him needing "a
fix", which is a term used for someone who is addicted to drugs or alcohol
or gambling, not me. That is a way of showing how you feel about his
passion for gaming. I wonder if you would use the same term if the lad
wanted more books or jigsaw puzzles.

I was asking all those questions to find out what you have already tried.


><Have you sat with him while he is playing and encouraged him, brought him
>his favorite snacks, empathized with him when he is frustrated?>
>
>I say:
>
>Yes, to all of these. What I am saying is, these things don't seem to be
>helping. I want him to enjoy it.


Sometimes learning and growing isn't easy or enjoyable. Sometimes it is
frustrating as hell.

And that's okay, as long as it is they who are choosing to put themselves
in that position, and are free to walk away themselves.

It took me a while to figure it out, and it was about gaming, too. My son
was so frustrated all the time, and angry about it, and he would yell and
scream and curse that Kirby: Crystal Shards game and snipe at anyone who
tried to comfort him instead of empathizing with him and validating his
frustration.

I learned not to try to fix it. I learned to let it be what it was until
he asked me to help. I sat by him, and was just with him, even while he
was angry about it, and kept trying over and over through his
tears. Once in a while I could say, "I know you will eventually figure
this out, because I watched you figure out the last level, and it was so
frustrating but you kept trying and did it. So I know you can do this one,
too."

And it is okay to say, "I know you are really frustrated by that game, but
it isn't okay to take your frustration out on the people around you."


Susan (VA)
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 22, 2006, at 11:19 AM, Susan McGlohn wrote:

> -=-And it is okay to say, "I know you are really frustrated by that
> game, but
> it isn't okay to take your frustration out on the people around
> you."-=-

Nor on $30 or $40 controllers.

Frustration is okay within reason, but reminding him there are ways
to get advice, like discussion lists (http://sandradodd.com/lists/
other —there's one on that page), message boards, walk-throughs,
players' guides, is also a way to point out gently that the answers
are out there, and he is CHOOSING frustration; it's not inevitable.

But that same overlay applies to unschooling and mindful parenting
too. People can try guessing with no assistance or maps or without
finding out what others did, or they can ask. But when they do ask
and people say "Go down the left tunnel, not the right one; the right
is a dead end," it's pretty pointless for them to keep saying "But my
family is a RIGHT tunnel family, and we will eventually get to
unschooling that way."

There are walkthroughs here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling


(and gaming walkthroughs can be found with
http://google.com )


Sandra

Julie W in AR

> -=-How does everyone else out there deal with the
> money issue? -=-

Normally the game systems have have been bought when
others were chipping in like Christmas and Birthdays.
We do gamefly.com for games. It is very, very seldom
that ds actually wants to keep a game after he beats
it. No overdue fees and if it really sucks or is too
frustrating for him to deal with he just sends it back
the next day.

Julie W The Zaftig Goddess Vintage

Melissa

We do game exchange for just about everything, when target or walmart
has them on sales we stock up. Sam's just had a bunch of new ones for
$10 to $13, and we bought a bunch then for all our game systems.

Game Exchange ( don't know if you have on there, but Game Stop is
similar) also has a pretty good deal on trade ins, Josh saves his
money, buys games and movies at yard sales and then takes them in for
trade. He also does that with game systems.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose


>
>
> > -=-How does everyone else out there deal with the
> > money issue? -=-

Pamela Sorooshian

On Feb 22, 2006, at 8:19 AM, Amie wrote:

> I have tried talking to him. He gets more frustrated.

Try talking about it at a time other than when he's playing and
already getting frustrated.

-pam



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UNSCHOOL!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

> Sorry if I offended you, but you were the one talking about him
> needing "a
> fix", which is a term used for someone who is addicted to drugs or
> alcohol
> or gambling, not me. That is a way of showing how you feel about his
> passion for gaming. I wonder if you would use the same term if the
> lad
> wanted more books or jigsaw puzzles.

I have an idea. How about pretending that the games are math books
and he's frantically trying to find the ones that suit him. Really
envision that scenario and then treat the games (and money for the
games) the same way you'd treat the books.

-pam

Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>





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Barbara Mullins

My son will be 8 already next month and we got a PS2 last year so I
can relate. What I suggest the most is to play WITH him (if he will
allow it)as much as possible, taking turns on one person games or at
the same time on two person games. And if he skips the instructions
then ask him to go back so that you could read them so YOU know what
to do. Also the cheat codes are a good idea, I make a couple of
printouts of them when we get a new game so we can refer back to them
when when we're playing the game (the computer is upstairs and the PS2
is downstairs.) My son learned how to spell all of the planets on Star
Wars (better than me btw) that way. Also perhaps now might be a good
time to introduce an allowance or a "share of the pie" so to speak
about how much money you can afford to spend on games, I give my son
an allowance that is what we can afford and still have money for other
necessities, but if there is money left over then we can spend it for
extra stuff or put it away for something bigger later, etc. A great
time to figure how much stuff costs, how long it will take to save for
it, etc. That way he's not going to be begging you for a game if he
knows you can't afford it currently. Not that he's probably not
getting some math on the video game though, my ds actually figured out
by himself that if he has 33,000 studs and he wants 50,000 studs to
unlock a new character then he needs to get 17,000 more studs. Before
that I had only seen him adding and subtracting to 10, mostly to 6
from the Hot Wheels Acceleracers game! Very cool!

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 23, 2006, at 2:25 AM, Barbara Mullins wrote:

> That way he's not going to be begging you for a game if he
> knows you can't afford it currently. Not that he's probably not
> getting some math on the video game though, my ds actually figured out
> by himself that if he has 33,000 studs and he wants 50,000 studs to
> unlock a new character then he needs to get 17,000 more studs. Before
> that I had only seen him adding and subtracting to 10, mostly to 6
> from the Hot Wheels Acceleracers game! Very cool!


There's much more to learn from video games than spelling and
arithmetic.

Few parents would discuss ways to discourage kids from "begging" for
more math books or spelling books, anyway.

http://sandradodd.com/videogames

For a long time people couldn't justify games any more than with "eye/
hand coordination." Finger dexterity, spelling and math are just a
reflection on the tip of the ice berg.

Sandra

Melissa

Out of the blue, last night, when Josh and I were talking he said,
"ya know mom? when I'm playing video games I'm really practicing my
hand-eye coordination." I did my usual mom reply when I'm not sure
where the conversation is going..."oh yeah?" he says "yeah, i'm
learning lots of other stuff too. i'm not sure what but I feel it in
my brain" lol!
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose


On Feb 23, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

>
> For a long time people couldn't justify games any more than with "eye/
> hand coordination." Finger dexterity, spelling and math are just a
> reflection on the tip of the ice berg.