Hello from Florida
Maggy
Hi,
I joined recently but hadn't gotten around to posting an intro yet.
I've been enjoying reading the posts and have already learned quite
a bit. I've been mostly unschooling my 3 kids (8, 6, and 4) but
still need help in some areas. We don't do any school work type
things and I think I mostly need help adjusting my attitude in other
areas. I am also on the unschooling basics list and have finally
been making more time to read posts. In the last couple of days
alone some of the discussions have really made me change my attitude
towards chores. I realized I have been nagging my kids about
picking up all the stuff they leave around. I think the main
turning point was a couple of days ago I asked my youngest to please
pick up all the stuff he had set up around the house for his "indoor
yard sale". His response: "But mom I haven't finished my yard sale
yet". I asked him if he wanted some help. He wanted me to be a
customer so I picked out several things I wanted to "buy". After
paying for my purchase I asked him if now I could put those things
away. He said "They are yours now so you can put them away". My dd
decided she would also make purchases and then she put those things
away. After lunch he said he was closing up and we put the rest of
the things away together. It was so much fun! I then went into
each room and tidied up a bit and really enjoyed thinking about
everything they had learned from each little mess I cleared away.
It wasn't even that hard working around all the legos still in use.
It turned out to be a great day, the house looked so much better at
the end of the day and I was free of the stress from nagging about
the mess. I'm looking forward to more days like this.
Maggy
I joined recently but hadn't gotten around to posting an intro yet.
I've been enjoying reading the posts and have already learned quite
a bit. I've been mostly unschooling my 3 kids (8, 6, and 4) but
still need help in some areas. We don't do any school work type
things and I think I mostly need help adjusting my attitude in other
areas. I am also on the unschooling basics list and have finally
been making more time to read posts. In the last couple of days
alone some of the discussions have really made me change my attitude
towards chores. I realized I have been nagging my kids about
picking up all the stuff they leave around. I think the main
turning point was a couple of days ago I asked my youngest to please
pick up all the stuff he had set up around the house for his "indoor
yard sale". His response: "But mom I haven't finished my yard sale
yet". I asked him if he wanted some help. He wanted me to be a
customer so I picked out several things I wanted to "buy". After
paying for my purchase I asked him if now I could put those things
away. He said "They are yours now so you can put them away". My dd
decided she would also make purchases and then she put those things
away. After lunch he said he was closing up and we put the rest of
the things away together. It was so much fun! I then went into
each room and tidied up a bit and really enjoyed thinking about
everything they had learned from each little mess I cleared away.
It wasn't even that hard working around all the legos still in use.
It turned out to be a great day, the house looked so much better at
the end of the day and I was free of the stress from nagging about
the mess. I'm looking forward to more days like this.
Maggy
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 15, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Maggy wrote:
I can remember days (years ago) when I went to bed angry or
frustrated because nobody appreciated me and kids were lazy or
whatever negative thing I was thinking that day. It's MUCH better no
(and the house is cleaner too), and we all LIKE each other, and
people say "thank you" a lot.
Peace is more important than clean dishes, and people *can* have both.
Sandra
> It wasn't even that hard working around all the legos still in use.Sounds wonderful.
> It turned out to be a great day, the house looked so much better at
> the end of the day and I was free of the stress from nagging about
> the mess. I'm looking forward to more days like this.
I can remember days (years ago) when I went to bed angry or
frustrated because nobody appreciated me and kids were lazy or
whatever negative thing I was thinking that day. It's MUCH better no
(and the house is cleaner too), and we all LIKE each other, and
people say "thank you" a lot.
Peace is more important than clean dishes, and people *can* have both.
Sandra
Ren Allen
'Peace is more important than clean dishes, and people *can* have both."
You know, there was some point in our journey that I realized all the
energy spent trying to get other people to do tasks, took MORE energy
than doing the task itself.
Once I realized this, it really freed me up to just DO the task and
fill the house with positive energy.:) I still see my dh do this
occasionally. Trying to find out WHO left the milk out and making them
come put it away. It takes several minutes, when putting the milk away
would have taken him 3 seconds!!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
You know, there was some point in our journey that I realized all the
energy spent trying to get other people to do tasks, took MORE energy
than doing the task itself.
Once I realized this, it really freed me up to just DO the task and
fill the house with positive energy.:) I still see my dh do this
occasionally. Trying to find out WHO left the milk out and making them
come put it away. It takes several minutes, when putting the milk away
would have taken him 3 seconds!!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Maggy Alonso
This sounds like me, only it was just last week! It really is reassuring that even you have been there. You give me hope.
A couple of years ago you responded to a whiny post of mine (on another list). My kids were 5, 3, and 1 at the time. You told me that eventually they would dress themselves and go to the bathroom alone, etc. (and you were right!) I was having a really bad day and your response really did help. Not sure if I ever thanked you.....thanks!
Maggy
A couple of years ago you responded to a whiny post of mine (on another list). My kids were 5, 3, and 1 at the time. You told me that eventually they would dress themselves and go to the bathroom alone, etc. (and you were right!) I was having a really bad day and your response really did help. Not sure if I ever thanked you.....thanks!
Maggy
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
I can remember days (years ago) when I went to bed angry or
frustrated because nobody appreciated me and kids were lazy or
whatever negative thing I was thinking that day. It's MUCH better no
(and the house is cleaner too), and we all LIKE each other, and
people say "thank you" a lot.
Peace is more important than clean dishes, and people *can* have both.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maggy Alonso
Yes, yes, yes! This is exactly what I am talking about! This is the very loud bell that has just recently gone off in my head. I have people like you to thank for it, Ren.
Just tonight DH went outside where the kids were playing to find out who left the fridge open and he didn't close it before going outside! But I must admit that I have done similar things and he is the one who calls me on it. We will eventually get there together. I'm feeling so enlightened.
Maggy
Just tonight DH went outside where the kids were playing to find out who left the fridge open and he didn't close it before going outside! But I must admit that I have done similar things and he is the one who calls me on it. We will eventually get there together. I'm feeling so enlightened.
Maggy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:41 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Hello from Florida
'Peace is more important than clean dishes, and people *can* have both."
You know, there was some point in our journey that I realized all the
energy spent trying to get other people to do tasks, took MORE energy
than doing the task itself.
Once I realized this, it really freed me up to just DO the task and
fill the house with positive energy.:) I still see my dh do this
occasionally. Trying to find out WHO left the milk out and making them
come put it away. It takes several minutes, when putting the milk away
would have taken him 3 seconds!!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Susan McGlohn
At 11:21 PM 2/15/2006, you wrote:
see my kids learning in the moment, but then the moment is gone and I
haven't really spent time reflecting back and thinking about it. Looking
at where they have been throughout the day or week would be a great way to
know them better...sort of anthropological, and fun for me too.
Susan (VA)
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I then went intoWhat a great shift! I am going to hold on to this thought today. I often
>each room and tidied up a bit and really enjoyed thinking about
>everything they had learned from each little mess I cleared away.
see my kids learning in the moment, but then the moment is gone and I
haven't really spent time reflecting back and thinking about it. Looking
at where they have been throughout the day or week would be a great way to
know them better...sort of anthropological, and fun for me too.
Susan (VA)
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 15, 2006, at 10:44 PM, Maggy Alonso wrote:
You're welcome.
When I'm feeling frustrated and whiney with my own children, I
sometimes remind myself that they do dress themselves and go to the
bathroom alone, and breathe in a big breath of gratitude that they
can do so. Some parents are not so fortunate.
My kids aren't perfect, but they're capable of taking care of their
own needs in so many ways that my life is conveniently simple
compared to many.
Sandra
> . My kids were 5, 3, and 1 at the time. You told me that===========
> eventually they would dress themselves and go to the bathroom
> alone, etc. (and you were right!) I was having a really bad day
> and your response really did help. Not sure if I ever thanked
> you.....thanks!
You're welcome.
When I'm feeling frustrated and whiney with my own children, I
sometimes remind myself that they do dress themselves and go to the
bathroom alone, and breathe in a big breath of gratitude that they
can do so. Some parents are not so fortunate.
My kids aren't perfect, but they're capable of taking care of their
own needs in so many ways that my life is conveniently simple
compared to many.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Two quotes and then comments:
When my kids did get to the point that they were learning on their
own, and learning things they might not even have shared with me, at
least I was still involved by cleaning up after them, replenishing
their supplies, making sure the tape or scissors or whatever were
where they could find them the next time, etc.
In the model of "The Open Classroom," that's one of the main tasks of
the teachers, is keeping the "learning centers" appealing and
functional and safe. Getting kids to help is possible sometimes,
but it's not the kids' "job" to do that, at school, ultimately.
It seems to me that part of the "job of an unschooling parent" is to
make sure it's easy for their kids to learn. Sometimes that involves
maintaining learning stations, even if we don't think of them in
those terms so overtly.
If the kitchen is clean and there are staples, people can cook. If
clothes are clean and in good repair, kids can be creative with what
they wear, and make good choices about what's good for the day's
weather and activities (rather than having to wear the only clean
thing). If the swingset is working, or the trampoline, or
whatever's out in the yard.. if the bicycle has air in the tires and
a chain... Well, you know.
Marty and Kirby took their armor and went with Keith and Holly to
Arizona. Yesterday after they left, I saw that Marty had left his
mouth guards. Marty has expensive braces, and getting hit in the
face (having one's helm push into his face from a blow with a rattan
weapon) could be very painful, and not good for the whole teeth-and-
braces project. I found someone to take them out there, and then
made another call to find someone who was leaving here even sooner.
Kirby called and said he had forgotten his cup. So that went too.
They have them by now. They could have bought more of both of those
at some store in Phoenix, but Keith wanted to get out there and set
up several large complicated canvas tents before dark. This saved
money and trouble of finding a store (in a strange city, with a large
van pulling a trailer), and it was a way for me to add to the fun and
learning that will happen for Kirby and Marty this weekend. They get
to participate in combat tactics with large groups�hundreds on a
side. Kirby wouldn't be allowed on the field without a cup. Marty
could go out without a mouth guard but I'm glad he won't have to. I
didn't shame them about forgetting the things. Keith and I have
forgotten lots of things over the years. I just assisted.
Whose line was it that she "creates a clean canvas"? Deb Lewis
maybe? It's creating a clean canvas, or restocking the shop between
jobs.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > I then went into==========================
> >each room and tidied up a bit and really enjoyed thinking about
> >everything they had learned from each little mess I cleared away.
>
> Susan McGlohn wrote:
> What a great shift! I am going to hold on to this thought today.
> I often
> see my kids learning in the moment, but then the moment is gone and I
> haven't really spent time reflecting back and thinking about it.
> Looking
> at where they have been throughout the day or week would be a great
> way to
> know them better...sort of anthropological, and fun for me too.
When my kids did get to the point that they were learning on their
own, and learning things they might not even have shared with me, at
least I was still involved by cleaning up after them, replenishing
their supplies, making sure the tape or scissors or whatever were
where they could find them the next time, etc.
In the model of "The Open Classroom," that's one of the main tasks of
the teachers, is keeping the "learning centers" appealing and
functional and safe. Getting kids to help is possible sometimes,
but it's not the kids' "job" to do that, at school, ultimately.
It seems to me that part of the "job of an unschooling parent" is to
make sure it's easy for their kids to learn. Sometimes that involves
maintaining learning stations, even if we don't think of them in
those terms so overtly.
If the kitchen is clean and there are staples, people can cook. If
clothes are clean and in good repair, kids can be creative with what
they wear, and make good choices about what's good for the day's
weather and activities (rather than having to wear the only clean
thing). If the swingset is working, or the trampoline, or
whatever's out in the yard.. if the bicycle has air in the tires and
a chain... Well, you know.
Marty and Kirby took their armor and went with Keith and Holly to
Arizona. Yesterday after they left, I saw that Marty had left his
mouth guards. Marty has expensive braces, and getting hit in the
face (having one's helm push into his face from a blow with a rattan
weapon) could be very painful, and not good for the whole teeth-and-
braces project. I found someone to take them out there, and then
made another call to find someone who was leaving here even sooner.
Kirby called and said he had forgotten his cup. So that went too.
They have them by now. They could have bought more of both of those
at some store in Phoenix, but Keith wanted to get out there and set
up several large complicated canvas tents before dark. This saved
money and trouble of finding a store (in a strange city, with a large
van pulling a trailer), and it was a way for me to add to the fun and
learning that will happen for Kirby and Marty this weekend. They get
to participate in combat tactics with large groups�hundreds on a
side. Kirby wouldn't be allowed on the field without a cup. Marty
could go out without a mouth guard but I'm glad he won't have to. I
didn't shame them about forgetting the things. Keith and I have
forgotten lots of things over the years. I just assisted.
Whose line was it that she "creates a clean canvas"? Deb Lewis
maybe? It's creating a clean canvas, or restocking the shop between
jobs.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gold Standard
Sandra, it sounds like your family may be participating in either the
Renaissance Festival here, or the Estrella War maybe? In any case, I live
not too far from either and if your guys want a house to freshen up in or
hang out in or shower in or whatever, they can come over. We consist of 17yo
ds, 16 yo ds, 13yo dd and 12 yo ds, dh, my mother, and me. A big house with
lots of video games, board games, food, and a few animals.
We are planning to go to Estrella tomorrow. We're psyched! I'll send you my
phone number offlist if they want to come at any time.
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] helping create a good nest
Two quotes and then comments:
When my kids did get to the point that they were learning on their
own, and learning things they might not even have shared with me, at
least I was still involved by cleaning up after them, replenishing
their supplies, making sure the tape or scissors or whatever were
where they could find them the next time, etc.
In the model of "The Open Classroom," that's one of the main tasks of
the teachers, is keeping the "learning centers" appealing and
functional and safe. Getting kids to help is possible sometimes,
but it's not the kids' "job" to do that, at school, ultimately.
It seems to me that part of the "job of an unschooling parent" is to
make sure it's easy for their kids to learn. Sometimes that involves
maintaining learning stations, even if we don't think of them in
those terms so overtly.
If the kitchen is clean and there are staples, people can cook. If
clothes are clean and in good repair, kids can be creative with what
they wear, and make good choices about what's good for the day's
weather and activities (rather than having to wear the only clean
thing). If the swingset is working, or the trampoline, or
whatever's out in the yard.. if the bicycle has air in the tires and
a chain... Well, you know.
Marty and Kirby took their armor and went with Keith and Holly to
Arizona. Yesterday after they left, I saw that Marty had left his
mouth guards. Marty has expensive braces, and getting hit in the
face (having one's helm push into his face from a blow with a rattan
weapon) could be very painful, and not good for the whole teeth-and-
braces project. I found someone to take them out there, and then
made another call to find someone who was leaving here even sooner.
Kirby called and said he had forgotten his cup. So that went too.
They have them by now. They could have bought more of both of those
at some store in Phoenix, but Keith wanted to get out there and set
up several large complicated canvas tents before dark. This saved
money and trouble of finding a store (in a strange city, with a large
van pulling a trailer), and it was a way for me to add to the fun and
learning that will happen for Kirby and Marty this weekend. They get
to participate in combat tactics with large groupshundreds on a
side. Kirby wouldn't be allowed on the field without a cup. Marty
could go out without a mouth guard but I'm glad he won't have to. I
didn't shame them about forgetting the things. Keith and I have
forgotten lots of things over the years. I just assisted.
Whose line was it that she "creates a clean canvas"? Deb Lewis
maybe? It's creating a clean canvas, or restocking the shop between
jobs.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Renaissance Festival here, or the Estrella War maybe? In any case, I live
not too far from either and if your guys want a house to freshen up in or
hang out in or shower in or whatever, they can come over. We consist of 17yo
ds, 16 yo ds, 13yo dd and 12 yo ds, dh, my mother, and me. A big house with
lots of video games, board games, food, and a few animals.
We are planning to go to Estrella tomorrow. We're psyched! I'll send you my
phone number offlist if they want to come at any time.
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] helping create a good nest
Two quotes and then comments:
> > I then went into==========================
> >each room and tidied up a bit and really enjoyed thinking about
> >everything they had learned from each little mess I cleared away.
>
> Susan McGlohn wrote:
> What a great shift! I am going to hold on to this thought today.
> I often
> see my kids learning in the moment, but then the moment is gone and I
> haven't really spent time reflecting back and thinking about it.
> Looking
> at where they have been throughout the day or week would be a great
> way to
> know them better...sort of anthropological, and fun for me too.
When my kids did get to the point that they were learning on their
own, and learning things they might not even have shared with me, at
least I was still involved by cleaning up after them, replenishing
their supplies, making sure the tape or scissors or whatever were
where they could find them the next time, etc.
In the model of "The Open Classroom," that's one of the main tasks of
the teachers, is keeping the "learning centers" appealing and
functional and safe. Getting kids to help is possible sometimes,
but it's not the kids' "job" to do that, at school, ultimately.
It seems to me that part of the "job of an unschooling parent" is to
make sure it's easy for their kids to learn. Sometimes that involves
maintaining learning stations, even if we don't think of them in
those terms so overtly.
If the kitchen is clean and there are staples, people can cook. If
clothes are clean and in good repair, kids can be creative with what
they wear, and make good choices about what's good for the day's
weather and activities (rather than having to wear the only clean
thing). If the swingset is working, or the trampoline, or
whatever's out in the yard.. if the bicycle has air in the tires and
a chain... Well, you know.
Marty and Kirby took their armor and went with Keith and Holly to
Arizona. Yesterday after they left, I saw that Marty had left his
mouth guards. Marty has expensive braces, and getting hit in the
face (having one's helm push into his face from a blow with a rattan
weapon) could be very painful, and not good for the whole teeth-and-
braces project. I found someone to take them out there, and then
made another call to find someone who was leaving here even sooner.
Kirby called and said he had forgotten his cup. So that went too.
They have them by now. They could have bought more of both of those
at some store in Phoenix, but Keith wanted to get out there and set
up several large complicated canvas tents before dark. This saved
money and trouble of finding a store (in a strange city, with a large
van pulling a trailer), and it was a way for me to add to the fun and
learning that will happen for Kirby and Marty this weekend. They get
to participate in combat tactics with large groupshundreds on a
side. Kirby wouldn't be allowed on the field without a cup. Marty
could go out without a mouth guard but I'm glad he won't have to. I
didn't shame them about forgetting the things. Keith and I have
forgotten lots of things over the years. I just assisted.
Whose line was it that she "creates a clean canvas"? Deb Lewis
maybe? It's creating a clean canvas, or restocking the shop between
jobs.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Ren Allen
"Whose line was it that she "creates a clean canvas"? "
I quoted her at the conference!! That was in my "unschooling a tribe"
talk and it was actually Dawn in NS.:)
I have my notes from that talk right here, so I'm absolutely positive
it was her.
~We don't clean up messes to have a clean house. We cleaan up messes
so there is room for more mess! No I think of cleaning up after my
kids as replacing a canvas.~
The entire post is even better, but that's the part I read.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
I quoted her at the conference!! That was in my "unschooling a tribe"
talk and it was actually Dawn in NS.:)
I have my notes from that talk right here, so I'm absolutely positive
it was her.
~We don't clean up messes to have a clean house. We cleaan up messes
so there is room for more mess! No I think of cleaning up after my
kids as replacing a canvas.~
The entire post is even better, but that's the part I read.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 16, 2006, at 8:48 PM, Gold Standard wrote:
If you want to ask about them, they'll be in the Outlands camp, and
their names there are
Gunwaldt (he's a count, but goes by Jarl/"yarl") Keith
Lord Magnus (Kirby)
Bardolf (Marty)
Asta (Holly)
They're planning to pack mostly up Sunday night, strike tents Monday
morning and come straight home, but thanks for the offer anyway.
When they get here, Kelly Lovejoy's family will be here. Busy days!
Sandra
> Sandra, it sounds like your family may be participating in either theThey're at Estrella.
> Renaissance Festival here, or the Estrella War maybe?
If you want to ask about them, they'll be in the Outlands camp, and
their names there are
Gunwaldt (he's a count, but goes by Jarl/"yarl") Keith
Lord Magnus (Kirby)
Bardolf (Marty)
Asta (Holly)
They're planning to pack mostly up Sunday night, strike tents Monday
morning and come straight home, but thanks for the offer anyway.
When they get here, Kelly Lovejoy's family will be here. Busy days!
Sandra
Gold Standard
Oh we'll definitely look for them!
Busy days indeed!
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] helping create a good nest
Busy days indeed!
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] helping create a good nest
On Feb 16, 2006, at 8:48 PM, Gold Standard wrote:
> Sandra, it sounds like your family may be participating in either the
> Renaissance Festival here, or the Estrella War maybe?
They're at Estrella.
If you want to ask about them, they'll be in the Outlands camp, and
their names there are
Gunwaldt (he's a count, but goes by Jarl/"yarl") Keith
Lord Magnus (Kirby)
Bardolf (Marty)
Asta (Holly)
They're planning to pack mostly up Sunday night, strike tents Monday
morning and come straight home, but thanks for the offer anyway.
When they get here, Kelly Lovejoy's family will be here. Busy days!
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Links
Sandra Dodd
Thanks!
On Feb 16, 2006, at 9:56 PM, Ren Allen wrote:
>
> I quoted her at the conference!! That was in my "unschooling a tribe"
> talk and it was actually Dawn in NS.:)
marsaili
Wow, my first emails from this list and people are talking SCA talk, how
cool!
My intro, I am Leslie---or in the SCA, Marsaili ingen Domnaill. I am a
SAHM to 6 children--one girl-17 and 5 boys-16, 14, 9, 7 and 3 months old. I
homeschooled my children for 3 years about 3 years ago but my marriage ended
and I had to go back to work full time so I wasn't able to homeschool
anymore. 2 years ago I met the man of my dreams and we have been together
ever since and he wants me to be a SAHM again (if that is what I
want---which I do!!) so I am able to homeschool again---which is great
because I REALLY dislike the public school system and I am tired of debating
issues with teachers, principals and counselors.
We live in the Barony of the Cleftlands---in the Middle Kingdom.
(Cleveland, Ohio for all you non-scadians) I am homeschooling 3 of my boys,
the 14, 9 and 7 year olds---the 14 year old may go to high school next year
if he wants to--which he has said he is interested in but I'm hoping we can
get him interested in staying home. My older kids are both juniors and I
felt that since they made it through high school this far, they should
graduate with their friends, which is what they wanted to do anyway.
We haven't been too involved in the SCA in a couple years because I was
working so much (I just stopped working in October, right before the baby
was born) I am hoping to rekindle the family's interest in the SCA again--
to start attending meetings and events---maybe even possibly going to
Pennsic---it's been 3 years and I'm having withdrawals!
Ok, that's a bunch about me and us---right now I am concentrating on reading
about different styles of learning--I just bought a bunch of John Holt's
books off of Amazon and I am eagerly awaiting them as well as some other
popular homeschooling books. I am looking forward to meeting you all and
hopefully learning a lot from you and adding what I can with what little
experience I have!
Thanks!
Leslie:-)
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Gold Standard
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] helping create a good nest
Oh we'll definitely look for them!
Busy days indeed!
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] helping create a good nest
cool!
My intro, I am Leslie---or in the SCA, Marsaili ingen Domnaill. I am a
SAHM to 6 children--one girl-17 and 5 boys-16, 14, 9, 7 and 3 months old. I
homeschooled my children for 3 years about 3 years ago but my marriage ended
and I had to go back to work full time so I wasn't able to homeschool
anymore. 2 years ago I met the man of my dreams and we have been together
ever since and he wants me to be a SAHM again (if that is what I
want---which I do!!) so I am able to homeschool again---which is great
because I REALLY dislike the public school system and I am tired of debating
issues with teachers, principals and counselors.
We live in the Barony of the Cleftlands---in the Middle Kingdom.
(Cleveland, Ohio for all you non-scadians) I am homeschooling 3 of my boys,
the 14, 9 and 7 year olds---the 14 year old may go to high school next year
if he wants to--which he has said he is interested in but I'm hoping we can
get him interested in staying home. My older kids are both juniors and I
felt that since they made it through high school this far, they should
graduate with their friends, which is what they wanted to do anyway.
We haven't been too involved in the SCA in a couple years because I was
working so much (I just stopped working in October, right before the baby
was born) I am hoping to rekindle the family's interest in the SCA again--
to start attending meetings and events---maybe even possibly going to
Pennsic---it's been 3 years and I'm having withdrawals!
Ok, that's a bunch about me and us---right now I am concentrating on reading
about different styles of learning--I just bought a bunch of John Holt's
books off of Amazon and I am eagerly awaiting them as well as some other
popular homeschooling books. I am looking forward to meeting you all and
hopefully learning a lot from you and adding what I can with what little
experience I have!
Thanks!
Leslie:-)
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Gold Standard
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] helping create a good nest
Oh we'll definitely look for them!
Busy days indeed!
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] helping create a good nest
On Feb 16, 2006, at 8:48 PM, Gold Standard wrote:
> Sandra, it sounds like your family may be participating in either the
> Renaissance Festival here, or the Estrella War maybe?
They're at Estrella.
If you want to ask about them, they'll be in the Outlands camp, and
their names there are
Gunwaldt (he's a count, but goes by Jarl/"yarl") Keith
Lord Magnus (Kirby)
Bardolf (Marty)
Asta (Holly)
They're planning to pack mostly up Sunday night, strike tents Monday
morning and come straight home, but thanks for the offer anyway.
When they get here, Kelly Lovejoy's family will be here. Busy days!
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
On Feb 16, 2006, at 10:38 PM, marsaili wrote:
I'm quite inactive myself, but Keith goes lots still. A few years
back Keith was inactive, and I was super active. We met there, in
the late 70's.
Some photos of my kids, when they were little, and of Keith are here:
http://sandradodd.com/duckford/children
They're 19, 17 and 14 now, though.
Sandra
> We haven't been too involved in the SCA in a couple years==================
I'm quite inactive myself, but Keith goes lots still. A few years
back Keith was inactive, and I was super active. We met there, in
the late 70's.
Some photos of my kids, when they were little, and of Keith are here:
http://sandradodd.com/duckford/children
They're 19, 17 and 14 now, though.
Sandra
Ren Allen
"> We haven't been too involved in the SCA in a couple years"
We used to go to fighter practice in the Barony of Arenal (Pensacola)
a while back. I really didn't care for the P'cola group, but did meet
a few very cool folks there and had fun attending some feasts and such.
The kids interest waned, but recently Sierra asked me about going
back. We still have the basic garb and feast gear we got started with.
I just found the local group and their fighter practice isn't very far
from our home. So we may become SCA folks again....with the exception
of my dh, who just doesn't quite get it.
Ren, still in the Kingdom of Meridies
learninginfreedom.com
We used to go to fighter practice in the Barony of Arenal (Pensacola)
a while back. I really didn't care for the P'cola group, but did meet
a few very cool folks there and had fun attending some feasts and such.
The kids interest waned, but recently Sierra asked me about going
back. We still have the basic garb and feast gear we got started with.
I just found the local group and their fighter practice isn't very far
from our home. So we may become SCA folks again....with the exception
of my dh, who just doesn't quite get it.
Ren, still in the Kingdom of Meridies
learninginfreedom.com
Cindy Kee
But I don't think that keeping the "learning centers" cleaned up,
functional and safe or whatever part of the house needs to be
organized in order to make it easy for kids to learn should extend to
"I am the sole housekeeper of the house and the kids never learn to
clean."
My kids are 7-1/2 (fraternal twin boys) and I expect that they can
pick up their own rooms (we do this every night before bed so that it
never gets to the point of being overwhelming for them.) And if they
leave their shoes, blankets, or whatever in the family room, I do make
them come get them and put them in their room. But I definitely do
most of the rest of the housework because I am always "finishing the
job to MY SATISFACTION", but I will be teaching them how to perform
many of the cleaning functions in the house.
I will admit I am DEFINITELY NOT one of those moms that has any
regular cleaning schedule and I have not been as good about involving
them (since I can do it faster and better) as I should when it comes
to things like cleaning bathrooms and running the vacuum cleaner, but
they will learn how to do these things before they are teenagers!
Cindy
mom to fraternal twin boys, 7 yo
functional and safe or whatever part of the house needs to be
organized in order to make it easy for kids to learn should extend to
"I am the sole housekeeper of the house and the kids never learn to
clean."
My kids are 7-1/2 (fraternal twin boys) and I expect that they can
pick up their own rooms (we do this every night before bed so that it
never gets to the point of being overwhelming for them.) And if they
leave their shoes, blankets, or whatever in the family room, I do make
them come get them and put them in their room. But I definitely do
most of the rest of the housework because I am always "finishing the
job to MY SATISFACTION", but I will be teaching them how to perform
many of the cleaning functions in the house.
I will admit I am DEFINITELY NOT one of those moms that has any
regular cleaning schedule and I have not been as good about involving
them (since I can do it faster and better) as I should when it comes
to things like cleaning bathrooms and running the vacuum cleaner, but
they will learn how to do these things before they are teenagers!
Cindy
mom to fraternal twin boys, 7 yo
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> When my kids did get to the point that they were learning on their
> own, and learning things they might not even have shared with me, at
> least I was still involved by cleaning up after them, replenishing
> their supplies, making sure the tape or scissors or whatever were
> where they could find them the next time, etc.
>
> In the model of "The Open Classroom," that's one of the main tasks of
> the teachers, is keeping the "learning centers" appealing and
> functional and safe. Getting kids to help is possible sometimes,
> but it's not the kids' "job" to do that, at school, ultimately.
>
> It seems to me that part of the "job of an unschooling parent" is to
> make sure it's easy for their kids to learn. Sometimes that involves
> maintaining learning stations, even if we don't think of them in
> those terms so overtly.
>
> If the kitchen is clean and there are staples, people can cook. If
> clothes are clean and in good repair, kids can be creative with what
> they wear, and make good choices about what's good for the day's
> weather and activities (rather than having to wear the only clean
> thing). If the swingset is working, or the trampoline, or
> whatever's out in the yard.. if the bicycle has air in the tires and
> a chain... Well, you know.
>
Susan McGlohn
At 06:44 PM 2/17/2006, you wrote:
grouse and complain, and do the job over herself to her satisfaction. You
know what I learned? That my efforts weren't appreciated or good
enough. That I could do a half-assed job and tune her out and never have
to do a good job again. I learned how to fail.
You might want to read about chores here: http://sandradodd.com/chores
Many of the products we use today weren't around when we were growing up,
and certainly weren't around when our parents were growing up. We learned
to use them by watching the commercials, buying the stuff and reading the
directions on the back.
When someone says they are going to "be teaching them how to perform many
of the cleaning functions in the house", that usually means something else
than just showing them once how to clean a toilet or a bathtub. Usually
what it really means is making kids help keep the house up to Mom's (or
Dad's) standards, without Mom having to do all the work to reach those
standards.
I think if I couldn't keep the house up to my standards by myself, maybe I
should lower my standards rather than impose them on someone else. Or hire
a cleaning service.
Susan (in VA)
wife to VegMan (aka Ted) since 12/86
momma to Sarah (10/89), Andrew (6/91), and Aaron (3/98)
"It's a small world....but a BIG life!" ~ Aaron, age 6
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>But I definitely doYou know, my mom did that. She would tell me I did a half-assed job,
>most of the rest of the housework because I am always "finishing the
>job to MY SATISFACTION",
grouse and complain, and do the job over herself to her satisfaction. You
know what I learned? That my efforts weren't appreciated or good
enough. That I could do a half-assed job and tune her out and never have
to do a good job again. I learned how to fail.
You might want to read about chores here: http://sandradodd.com/chores
> but I will be teaching them how to performDid you know that you don't have to teach them to clean?
>many of the cleaning functions in the house.
Many of the products we use today weren't around when we were growing up,
and certainly weren't around when our parents were growing up. We learned
to use them by watching the commercials, buying the stuff and reading the
directions on the back.
When someone says they are going to "be teaching them how to perform many
of the cleaning functions in the house", that usually means something else
than just showing them once how to clean a toilet or a bathtub. Usually
what it really means is making kids help keep the house up to Mom's (or
Dad's) standards, without Mom having to do all the work to reach those
standards.
I think if I couldn't keep the house up to my standards by myself, maybe I
should lower my standards rather than impose them on someone else. Or hire
a cleaning service.
Susan (in VA)
wife to VegMan (aka Ted) since 12/86
momma to Sarah (10/89), Andrew (6/91), and Aaron (3/98)
"It's a small world....but a BIG life!" ~ Aaron, age 6
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie
I don't think I've posted here yet, so here's a quick intro:
I'm a first-time mom to 9mo Dmitri and live in upstate NY with dh Joe. I'm
on a number of unschooling lists and find that a lot of what is discussed
guides me in my day-to-day life with Dmitri. So much of what is said
regarding living with young people also applies to living and learning with
the very young.
<< My kids are 7-1/2 (fraternal twin boys) and I expect that they can
pick up their own rooms (we do this every night before bed so that it
never gets to the point of being overwhelming for them.) And if they
leave their shoes, blankets, or whatever in the family room, I do make
them come get them and put them in their room.>>
Wow, twin boys! I imagine there's lots of fun chaos at your house.
If they are always picking up their rooms at your direction, how will they
ever distinguish when to pick up their rooms from natural motivation? I am
still sorting out cleaning issues after being directed to clean my room on a
regular basis in my youth. I certainly learned how to keep a clean house,
and I also learned how to have torturous, judgmental thoughts about having a
clean house. I would have loved it if my mother could have realized that
she could have worked with me, not as my adversary.
<<But I definitely do
most of the rest of the housework because I am always "finishing the
job to MY SATISFACTION", but I will be teaching them how to perform
many of the cleaning functions in the house.>>
I do all of the housework here for a variety of reasons--dh works FT, I have
higher standards for cleaning so I clean to make myself happy, and we play
to our natural strengths (mine is cleaning, dh's is cooking). I'm wondering
if parents need to overtly teach kids how to do housework. Dmitri is
already fascinated with the process of doing the laundry. <g> I remember
having a burning desire (no pun intended) to be able to use the iron and to
use the washer and dryer. I had no burning desire to do the things my
mother forced me to do.
Julie
I'm a first-time mom to 9mo Dmitri and live in upstate NY with dh Joe. I'm
on a number of unschooling lists and find that a lot of what is discussed
guides me in my day-to-day life with Dmitri. So much of what is said
regarding living with young people also applies to living and learning with
the very young.
<< My kids are 7-1/2 (fraternal twin boys) and I expect that they can
pick up their own rooms (we do this every night before bed so that it
never gets to the point of being overwhelming for them.) And if they
leave their shoes, blankets, or whatever in the family room, I do make
them come get them and put them in their room.>>
Wow, twin boys! I imagine there's lots of fun chaos at your house.
If they are always picking up their rooms at your direction, how will they
ever distinguish when to pick up their rooms from natural motivation? I am
still sorting out cleaning issues after being directed to clean my room on a
regular basis in my youth. I certainly learned how to keep a clean house,
and I also learned how to have torturous, judgmental thoughts about having a
clean house. I would have loved it if my mother could have realized that
she could have worked with me, not as my adversary.
<<But I definitely do
most of the rest of the housework because I am always "finishing the
job to MY SATISFACTION", but I will be teaching them how to perform
many of the cleaning functions in the house.>>
I do all of the housework here for a variety of reasons--dh works FT, I have
higher standards for cleaning so I clean to make myself happy, and we play
to our natural strengths (mine is cleaning, dh's is cooking). I'm wondering
if parents need to overtly teach kids how to do housework. Dmitri is
already fascinated with the process of doing the laundry. <g> I remember
having a burning desire (no pun intended) to be able to use the iron and to
use the washer and dryer. I had no burning desire to do the things my
mother forced me to do.
Julie
Cindy Kee
--- In [email protected], "Julie" <julesmiel@...> wrote:
picked up! And they expect me to tip-toe around all of the junk on
the floor to put them to bed at night?! No way. My rule is simple -
if the floor is not picked up so that I don't risk stepping on
something and hurting my foot, then I can't read to them of tuck them
into bed. The rest of the room is definitely not how I would LIKE to
see it. And sometimes I do clean off the top of a nightstand or
dresser because *I* can't stand to look at it. Of course, they don't
always like that because I am likely to throw something away that they
wanted to keep - like a stick or rock or some such thing!
Cindy in NV
Mom to fraternal twin boys, 7yo
>will they
>
>
> If they are always picking up their rooms at your direction, how
> ever distinguish when to pick up their rooms from natural motivation?Because at 7 years of age, they couldn't care less if anything was
picked up! And they expect me to tip-toe around all of the junk on
the floor to put them to bed at night?! No way. My rule is simple -
if the floor is not picked up so that I don't risk stepping on
something and hurting my foot, then I can't read to them of tuck them
into bed. The rest of the room is definitely not how I would LIKE to
see it. And sometimes I do clean off the top of a nightstand or
dresser because *I* can't stand to look at it. Of course, they don't
always like that because I am likely to throw something away that they
wanted to keep - like a stick or rock or some such thing!
Cindy in NV
Mom to fraternal twin boys, 7yo
Cindy Kee
--- In [email protected], Susan McGlohn
<wifeto.vegman@...> wrote:
done how I have it in my head to get done. I don't overtly finish
something that I specifically asked/told them to do because I agree -
it would come across as their work is not good enough. Only if I am
teaching them something and showing them as part of the learning
experience - NOT criticizing them about not doing it good enough -
will I overtly finish a job. Something like "after you clean the
sink, you should then wipe it down with a towel to dry the sink and
countertop off." Something like that.
do a "good job" of the task, be thorough, and take pride in a job
well-done.
agree with you. But as a full-time working mom, I don't think I
should also HAVE TO BE the full-time maid. I was raised, and believe
it to be true in my house now, that everyone who lives in the house
and makes the messes should pitch-in to help clean up the messes. My
dh also does all of the cooking/kitchen cleaning, with me only once in
a while cleaning the kitchen for him. I do all of the "kid stuff" in
the evenings while he is in the kitchen (we both work full-time at the
moment.) My kids are not on any regular chore schedule or chore
chart, but when I see something that needs to be done that I think
they could do to help, I tell them it's time to pitch-in and help to
benefit everyone.
Cindy in NV
mom to fraternal twin boys, 7yo
<wifeto.vegman@...> wrote:
>satisfaction. You
> At 06:44 PM 2/17/2006, you wrote:
> >But I definitely do
> >most of the rest of the housework because I am always "finishing the
> >job to MY SATISFACTION",
>
> You know, my mom did that. She would tell me I did a half-assed job,
> grouse and complain, and do the job over herself to her
> know what I learned? That my efforts weren't appreciated or goodnever have
> enough. That I could do a half-assed job and tune her out and
> to do a good job again. I learned how to fail.I guess I mis-spoke. Most of the time I just do the chore so it gets
>
done how I have it in my head to get done. I don't overtly finish
something that I specifically asked/told them to do because I agree -
it would come across as their work is not good enough. Only if I am
teaching them something and showing them as part of the learning
experience - NOT criticizing them about not doing it good enough -
will I overtly finish a job. Something like "after you clean the
sink, you should then wipe it down with a towel to dry the sink and
countertop off." Something like that.
> You might want to read about chores here: http://sandradodd.com/choresI will do that this weekend.
>many
> When someone says they are going to "be teaching them how to perform
> of the cleaning functions in the house", that usually meanssomething else
> than just showing them once how to clean a toilet or a bathtub.Usually
> what it really means is making kids help keep the house up to Mom's (orWell, I guess there's some truth to that. I want to teach them how to
> Dad's) standards, without Mom having to do all the work to reach those
> standards.
do a "good job" of the task, be thorough, and take pride in a job
well-done.
> I think if I couldn't keep the house up to my standards by myself,maybe I
> should lower my standards rather than impose them on someone else.Or hire
> a cleaning service.If I COULDN'T keep the house to my standards by myself, then I would
>
agree with you. But as a full-time working mom, I don't think I
should also HAVE TO BE the full-time maid. I was raised, and believe
it to be true in my house now, that everyone who lives in the house
and makes the messes should pitch-in to help clean up the messes. My
dh also does all of the cooking/kitchen cleaning, with me only once in
a while cleaning the kitchen for him. I do all of the "kid stuff" in
the evenings while he is in the kitchen (we both work full-time at the
moment.) My kids are not on any regular chore schedule or chore
chart, but when I see something that needs to be done that I think
they could do to help, I tell them it's time to pitch-in and help to
benefit everyone.
Cindy in NV
mom to fraternal twin boys, 7yo
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 17, 2006, at 4:44 PM, Cindy Kee wrote:
That wasn't stated; you wrote that out of your own self.
Kids can learn to clean without "being made" to clean, for one thing,
and I was talking about what makes unschooling work well, and having
resources and space helps unschooling work well.
Over the years my own views on chores changed due to discussions on
this list and UnschoolingDiscussion, from ideas some moms had who
were honestly getting along better at their houses than we were.
I've collected some of the best writings here. It seems odd at
first, but created outcomes I never could have imagined.
http://sandradodd.com/chores
I didn't write much of that myself, but I'm glad others did and am
glad to host the collection.
Sandra
> But I don't think that keeping the "learning centers" cleaned up,============
> functional and safe or whatever part of the house needs to be
> organized in order to make it easy for kids to learn should extend to
> "I am the sole housekeeper of the house and the kids never learn to
> clean."
That wasn't stated; you wrote that out of your own self.
Kids can learn to clean without "being made" to clean, for one thing,
and I was talking about what makes unschooling work well, and having
resources and space helps unschooling work well.
Over the years my own views on chores changed due to discussions on
this list and UnschoolingDiscussion, from ideas some moms had who
were honestly getting along better at their houses than we were.
I've collected some of the best writings here. It seems odd at
first, but created outcomes I never could have imagined.
http://sandradodd.com/chores
I didn't write much of that myself, but I'm glad others did and am
glad to host the collection.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 17, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Susan McGlohn wrote:
I agree entirely.
I figured out how to clean my wooden hottub efficiently and well,
through trial and error. I change methods from time to time, just to
give the wood the benefit of a different treatment—sometimes bleach,
sometimes 409, sometimes just a hard spray of water if it wasn't too
dirty. Once I used dish soap, and probably will again at least once
when summer comes. No one taught me that, and there's some tricky
business to cleaning a big barrel with a fence inside it and an
underwater stove. I clean it every week, and it's fun.
Marty's former job involved cleaning a leatherworking shop.
His current job involves cleaning up breaks and spills in a grocery
store, sweeping, and cleaning toilets. He picked it up very quickly.
Kirby used to work at a gaming shop. He vacuumed voluntarily before
he ever worked there. Holly used to go and vacuum sometimes to help
him clean up after he was hired. He dusted, swept, maintained
cardboard recycling and dumpster runs, kept a storage shed organized,
and cleaned bathrooms. No training for any of that, just native
intelligence and having seen other people use those simple tools.
His current job has a backpack vacuum like the Ghostbusters, and he
helps clean and organize an industrial kitchen, in the course of
working at a pizza restaurant.
Sandra
> Did you know that you don't have to teach them to clean?==========================
>
> Many of the products we use today weren't around when we were
> growing up,
> and certainly weren't around when our parents were growing up.
I agree entirely.
I figured out how to clean my wooden hottub efficiently and well,
through trial and error. I change methods from time to time, just to
give the wood the benefit of a different treatment—sometimes bleach,
sometimes 409, sometimes just a hard spray of water if it wasn't too
dirty. Once I used dish soap, and probably will again at least once
when summer comes. No one taught me that, and there's some tricky
business to cleaning a big barrel with a fence inside it and an
underwater stove. I clean it every week, and it's fun.
Marty's former job involved cleaning a leatherworking shop.
His current job involves cleaning up breaks and spills in a grocery
store, sweeping, and cleaning toilets. He picked it up very quickly.
Kirby used to work at a gaming shop. He vacuumed voluntarily before
he ever worked there. Holly used to go and vacuum sometimes to help
him clean up after he was hired. He dusted, swept, maintained
cardboard recycling and dumpster runs, kept a storage shed organized,
and cleaned bathrooms. No training for any of that, just native
intelligence and having seen other people use those simple tools.
His current job has a backpack vacuum like the Ghostbusters, and he
helps clean and organize an industrial kitchen, in the course of
working at a pizza restaurant.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 17, 2006, at 6:04 PM, Cindy Kee wrote:
http://sandradodd.com/rules
It's even possible not to put kids to bed at night, in the
traditional way.
There are options and choices galore.
http://sandradodd.com/sleeping
http://sandradodd.com/chore/option
Again, lots of unschoolers' writings, collected over the years.
Sandra
> And they expect me to tip-toe around all of the junk onIt's possible to live without rules.
> the floor to put them to bed at night?! No way. My rule is simple -
> if the floor is not picked up so that I don't risk stepping on
> something and hurting my foot, then I can't read to them of tuck them
> into bed.
http://sandradodd.com/rules
It's even possible not to put kids to bed at night, in the
traditional way.
There are options and choices galore.
http://sandradodd.com/sleeping
http://sandradodd.com/chore/option
Again, lots of unschoolers' writings, collected over the years.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 17, 2006, at 6:04 PM, Cindy Kee wrote:
What if your husband threw some of your things away?
If you had a friend staying for a week, would you throw some of his
things away?
This seems deeply disrespectful, and won't contribute to a good
unschooling life.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
That one IS my writing.
My kids are 14, 17 and 19 and are at peace and are respected by
adults and other kids. I wouldn't throw away a stick or a rock, and
they help take care of other people's favorite things too.
Sandra
> And sometimes I do clean off the top of a nightstand orWhat if they threw some of your things away?
> dresser because *I* can't stand to look at it. Of course, they don't
> always like that because I am likely to throw something away that they
> wanted to keep - like a stick or rock or some such thing!
What if your husband threw some of your things away?
If you had a friend staying for a week, would you throw some of his
things away?
This seems deeply disrespectful, and won't contribute to a good
unschooling life.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
That one IS my writing.
My kids are 14, 17 and 19 and are at peace and are respected by
adults and other kids. I wouldn't throw away a stick or a rock, and
they help take care of other people's favorite things too.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 17, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Cindy Kee wrote:
You don't have to keep your kids. Everything you do is a choice,
and if you look at it that way you will be big and powerful, instead
of penned in by "have to's."
You won't be surprised, I'm sure, that there's a link to something
about that. <g>
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto
-=-I was raised, and believe
it to be true in my house now, that everyone who lives in the house
and makes the messes should pitch-in to help clean up the messes.-=-
You were probably raised to send kids to school, too. For some
reason you didn't.
You might have been raised to spank kids. I'm hoping you don't do
that, even if that's the way you were raised.
Sandra
> But as a full-time working mom, I don't think IYou don't HAVE TO do anything. You don't have to work full time.
> should also HAVE TO BE the full-time maid.
You don't have to keep your kids. Everything you do is a choice,
and if you look at it that way you will be big and powerful, instead
of penned in by "have to's."
You won't be surprised, I'm sure, that there's a link to something
about that. <g>
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto
-=-I was raised, and believe
it to be true in my house now, that everyone who lives in the house
and makes the messes should pitch-in to help clean up the messes.-=-
You were probably raised to send kids to school, too. For some
reason you didn't.
You might have been raised to spank kids. I'm hoping you don't do
that, even if that's the way you were raised.
Sandra
mother_bhaer
>growing up,
>
> Did you know that you don't have to teach them to clean?
>
> Many of the products we use today weren't around when we were
> and certainly weren't around when our parents were growing up. Welearned
> to use them by watching the commercials, buying the stuff andreading the
> directions on the back.I don't post here very often because I am so new at unschooling. I'm
>
enjoying reading and learning! I had to comment on this, though. I
have to agree; we don't have to teach our kids how to clean. I never
cleaned, washed clothes, or cooked until I got married at the age of
27. I'm 39 now and I have to tell you that I've never ruined a load
of clothes (my washing machine explains how to seperate clothes right
on the lid!) I haven't ruined any meals (I started simple and I used
the cookbooks I got for wedding gifts) and I can run a vacuum and
dust with the best of them!
My mother felt that I would have to "grow up" soon enough. She
believed in letting me be a kid until I needed to be an adult.
Amazingly for the times, she believed that when that time came, I
would be able to rise to the occasion. Things seem to be going well
and my dad recently told my dh that they were very proud of me and
that I was a great mom and wife. Dh seems to agree.
Terri (who loves letting her kids be kids)
mother_bhaer
> if the floor is not picked up so that I don't risk stepping onI wonder if you have thought of the possibility that your children
> something and hurting my foot, then I can't read to them of tuck them
> into bed.
might see this as you saying you only love them when they are doing
what you want them to do.
The rest of the room is definitely not how I would LIKE to
> see it. And sometimes I do clean off the top of a nightstand orthey
> dresser because *I* can't stand to look at it. Of course, they don't
> always like that because I am likely to throw something away that
> wanted to keep - like a stick or rock or some such thing!These things are their "treasures" and they are probably very special
>
> Cindy in NV
> Mom to fraternal twin boys, 7yo
to them. Have you thought of how you would feel if someone came into
your room and snuck out your wedding dress and threw it away because
they thought it was taking up too much room in your closet?
Our children learn to respect others only when we as parents can show
them respect. That has to be the core of our relationship with our
children. A child is just as important as an adult. They depend on
us to protect them and advocate for their rights. That starts in our
own home. imho
Terri
>
Momma
> If they are always picking up their rooms at your direction, howwill they
> ever distinguish when to pick up their rooms from natural motivation?I can say for myself that I didn't have any chores as a child or teen. We
had a maid that cleaned and did our laundry. I left home not knowing how to
cook or clean. Today and almost any day of the week you can literally eat
off my floors. I taught myself out of necessity and desire. I also think
that I got used to having a clean home as a child and am uncomfortable in
anything else. I have a friend that was made to do a lot of chores as a
child and her house is filthy to the point of being unhealthy. My point is
that, in my experience, forcing chores on a child will not ensure that they
learn anything of value and they may often see housework as drudgery and
something to be avoided. I do ask my children to help me by cleaning up
after themselves and most of the time they do. If they forget I do it for
them just as I would for dh or a guest in our home. *I* am the one who wants
a neat and clean home. If I have a problem with the messes it is *MY*
problem. I have no right to push my issues or discomfort on others. I want
my family to have a clean and comfortable home to live in. It is my gift to
them. It is no longer a gift when I demand that they reciprocate. Who could
appreciate a gift like that?
-Dawn
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Danielle Conger
Cindy Kee wrote:
themselves to bed because their room isn't clear. I can totally
understand and empathize how much it *hurts* to step on little kid toys,
having done it myself, and one of the things I ask my girls to do is to
clear a path when they want tucked in or when they want to fall asleep
with me and be carried in later--though making a nest on our bedroom
floor is always a popular option, too. I've found finding a way to work
together to create a solution that works for everyone to be way better
for living joyfully than creating rules.
This also reminded me of a recent post regarding "mean moms" that I
tweaked a bit and rewrote, a section of which addressed room cleaning
specifically....
Someone on Ubasics posted this blurb that was circulating and being
celebrated on a local list of hers. I re-wrote it from my own
perspective and wanted to share that here as well...
Just for kicks, I wanted to write this out as it would look for me....
Someday, when my children are older, I will tell them:
I loved you enough to care about where you were going, with whom, and
what time you'd be home and to help you get there, have fun, and come home.
I loved you enough to be silent when you needed me to be silent and to
be there when you needed to talk, to give you the space to discover for
yourself who your true friends were and to help you pick up the pieces
when you were hurt.
I loved you enough to help you pay for the bubble gum you wanted and to
make things right when they felt wrong.
I loved you enough to stand by you for a lifetime, to be by your side
for two hours while we cleaned your room, a job that would have taken me
15 minutes, but the conversation was too precious to lose.
You learned that I wasn't perfect as we shared our lives together.
I loved you enough to let you make choices even when the stakes were
high and to help bear your burden whenever I could.
But most of all, I loved you enough to always help you get what you
needed, to put our relationship first and to walk in your shoes instead
of engaging in battles.
I'm glad you came to me, because in the end, you've helped me grow and
become a better person, so I won, too, in this relationship.
And someday, when your children are old enough to understand the
principles that guide this legacy of parenting, I hope you tell them how
they helped you grow and become a better person.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
>Wow, this just kind of made me sad thinking about the kids putting
> Because at 7 years of age, they couldn't care less if anything was
> picked up! And they expect me to tip-toe around all of the junk on
> the floor to put them to bed at night?! No way. My rule is simple -
> if the floor is not picked up so that I don't risk stepping on
> something and hurting my foot, then I can't read to them of tuck them
> into bed. The rest of the room is definitely not how I would LIKE to
> see it. And sometimes I do clean off the top of a nightstand or
> dresser because *I* can't stand to look at it. Of course, they don't
> always like that because I am likely to throw something away that they
> wanted to keep - like a stick or rock or some such thing!
themselves to bed because their room isn't clear. I can totally
understand and empathize how much it *hurts* to step on little kid toys,
having done it myself, and one of the things I ask my girls to do is to
clear a path when they want tucked in or when they want to fall asleep
with me and be carried in later--though making a nest on our bedroom
floor is always a popular option, too. I've found finding a way to work
together to create a solution that works for everyone to be way better
for living joyfully than creating rules.
This also reminded me of a recent post regarding "mean moms" that I
tweaked a bit and rewrote, a section of which addressed room cleaning
specifically....
Someone on Ubasics posted this blurb that was circulating and being
celebrated on a local list of hers. I re-wrote it from my own
perspective and wanted to share that here as well...
>and let
> Someday when my children are old enough to understand the logic that
> motivates a parent, I will tell them, as my Mean Mom told me: I
> loved you enough . . . to ask where you were going, with whom, and
> what time you would be home. I loved you enough to be silent
> you discover that your new best friend was a creep. I loved youtell
> enough to make you go pay for the bubble gum you had taken and
> the clerk, "I stole this yesterday and want to pay for it." Iloved
> you enough to stand over you for two hours while you cleaned yourenough to
> room, a job that should have taken 15 minutes. I loved you
> let you see anger, disappointment, and tears in my eyes. Childrenenough to
> must learn that their parents aren't perfect. I loved you
> let you assume the responsibility for your actions even when thewould
> penalties were so harsh they almost broke my heart.
> But most of all, I loved you enough . . . to say NO, when I knew you
> hate me for it. Those were the most difficult battles of all. I'm glad I****************************************************
> won them, because in the end you won, too.
> And someday when your children are old enough to understand the logic
> that motivates parents, you will tell them.
Just for kicks, I wanted to write this out as it would look for me....
Someday, when my children are older, I will tell them:
I loved you enough to care about where you were going, with whom, and
what time you'd be home and to help you get there, have fun, and come home.
I loved you enough to be silent when you needed me to be silent and to
be there when you needed to talk, to give you the space to discover for
yourself who your true friends were and to help you pick up the pieces
when you were hurt.
I loved you enough to help you pay for the bubble gum you wanted and to
make things right when they felt wrong.
I loved you enough to stand by you for a lifetime, to be by your side
for two hours while we cleaned your room, a job that would have taken me
15 minutes, but the conversation was too precious to lose.
You learned that I wasn't perfect as we shared our lives together.
I loved you enough to let you make choices even when the stakes were
high and to help bear your burden whenever I could.
But most of all, I loved you enough to always help you get what you
needed, to put our relationship first and to walk in your shoes instead
of engaging in battles.
I'm glad you came to me, because in the end, you've helped me grow and
become a better person, so I won, too, in this relationship.
And someday, when your children are old enough to understand the
principles that guide this legacy of parenting, I hope you tell them how
they helped you grow and become a better person.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha