Feeling brave already - looking for input here.
Marianne Pfister
A friend of mine had a birthday party for her son this weekend and I was shocked to find out that she had rented one of those big blow up bouncy castles. (Her son turned five.) I can't help feeling that it is so unnecessary to spend so much money on a child's birthday party. Receiving 10 toys at one time also seems like a bit much. I think part of my problem is due to the fact that since I grew up with 8 people in my family, we never needed "friend" birthday parties. We just didn't have them. In addition, we would only receive one gift.
Whenever I attend a child's birthday party, I often leave feeling that I am the only one in the world who feels that children can have fun without involving a lot of money. It seems like everything in the world has been commercialized....hmmm, I can't seem to avoid it, and yet I feel can't just accept it.
I would like to know how others feel about this and am looking for any suggestions for dealing with it, or at least dealing with my feelings regarding it.
~ Marianne
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Whenever I attend a child's birthday party, I often leave feeling that I am the only one in the world who feels that children can have fun without involving a lot of money. It seems like everything in the world has been commercialized....hmmm, I can't seem to avoid it, and yet I feel can't just accept it.
I would like to know how others feel about this and am looking for any suggestions for dealing with it, or at least dealing with my feelings regarding it.
~ Marianne
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Pamela Sorooshian
Do you have just the one child? Are you perhaps feeling that he might
be "spoiled" by all the attention and having more material goods than
what you, yourself, had? Could you be slightly envious, even?
the attitude, not in the "things" themselves. I'm sorry when I see
parents giving their kids lots of things "in place of" their time and
attention and energy, yes. But, on the other hand, if we've got money
and can spend it on things that make our kids' lives better, then I
don't see that as a negative. For example, a bounce house is SO much
fun for kids - and they aren't that expensive these days, to rent.
Just because it is something "paid for," don't condemn it - think
about "it" - kids jumping and jumping and jumping for hours together
with friends. Think of all the fun they're having together.
just BECAUSE it cost money and isn't "necessary." Is "necessary"
going to be your criterion for judging the value of things your child
might enjoy? Do you tell your child things like: "No, you don't need
a cookie?" I know someone like this - she's constantly saying her
child doesn't "need" this or that. She seems EXTREMELY controlling
and, to be honest, very stingy and not very enjoyable. I spend as
little time with her as possible because I can feel her judging eyes
on me - thinking that I'm too extravagant, too willing to satisfy
what she thinks are "just" children's whims. What "I" think is that
we're full of the love of life and what we enjoy, we enjoy with gusto.
My kids had birthdays when we paid to take them and a bunch of
friends to a local kiddie amusement park and other years where we
invited a few friends over and the kids played with dress-ups.
Depends on the kid - on how THEY felt like celebrating their own
birthdays.
Sometimes it is really FUN to have a lot of presents to open, too.
That wonderful feeling of being wealthy is great - why not let a kid
experience that? What are you afraid might result from that?
I have a friend who had her child open gifts AS the person arrived
at their house for the party - that way each gift was opened by
itself - it wasn't just one of a big stack - and her child could take
time to more personally thank the gift giver, not be rushing to open
the next one. I liked that - made each gift seem more special. In
their case, people were not all arriving at the same set time for the
party - so that worked well.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be "spoiled" by all the attention and having more material goods than
what you, yourself, had? Could you be slightly envious, even?
> Whenever I attend a child's birthday party, I often leave feelingIn a way, I agree with you. But much of that commercialization is in
> that I am the only one in the world who feels that children can
> have fun without involving a lot of money. It seems like everything
> in the world has been commercialized....hmmm, I can't seem to avoid
> it, and yet I feel can't just accept it.
the attitude, not in the "things" themselves. I'm sorry when I see
parents giving their kids lots of things "in place of" their time and
attention and energy, yes. But, on the other hand, if we've got money
and can spend it on things that make our kids' lives better, then I
don't see that as a negative. For example, a bounce house is SO much
fun for kids - and they aren't that expensive these days, to rent.
Just because it is something "paid for," don't condemn it - think
about "it" - kids jumping and jumping and jumping for hours together
with friends. Think of all the fun they're having together.
>You sound kind of puritanical about it. Like you're negative about it
> I would like to know how others feel about this and am looking
> for any suggestions for dealing with it, or at least dealing with
> my feelings regarding it.
just BECAUSE it cost money and isn't "necessary." Is "necessary"
going to be your criterion for judging the value of things your child
might enjoy? Do you tell your child things like: "No, you don't need
a cookie?" I know someone like this - she's constantly saying her
child doesn't "need" this or that. She seems EXTREMELY controlling
and, to be honest, very stingy and not very enjoyable. I spend as
little time with her as possible because I can feel her judging eyes
on me - thinking that I'm too extravagant, too willing to satisfy
what she thinks are "just" children's whims. What "I" think is that
we're full of the love of life and what we enjoy, we enjoy with gusto.
My kids had birthdays when we paid to take them and a bunch of
friends to a local kiddie amusement park and other years where we
invited a few friends over and the kids played with dress-ups.
Depends on the kid - on how THEY felt like celebrating their own
birthdays.
Sometimes it is really FUN to have a lot of presents to open, too.
That wonderful feeling of being wealthy is great - why not let a kid
experience that? What are you afraid might result from that?
I have a friend who had her child open gifts AS the person arrived
at their house for the party - that way each gift was opened by
itself - it wasn't just one of a big stack - and her child could take
time to more personally thank the gift giver, not be rushing to open
the next one. I liked that - made each gift seem more special. In
their case, people were not all arriving at the same set time for the
party - so that worked well.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 1, 2006, at 10:51 AM, Marianne Pfister wrote:
Trying to sort through childhood frustrations and regrets is hard but
worthwhile, especially when we have children of our own.
Don't limit your son's life because your own was limited. Don't
resent others' joy because you had to wait in line and share with
lots of siblings. It's a harsh and grey place to come from.
You don't have to live in the grumpy shadows. You can start to want
and be sunshine without even taking a step in any direction. It's
just thoughts.
-=-I can't help feeling that it is so unnecessary to spend so much
money on a child's birthday party.-=-
Do you want to live in that narrow channel of "necessary"?
What about "possible"?
What about just making a decision because it's fun?
Did the kids have fun in that bouncy castle? It's not clear whether
you were there or you just heard about it later.
If you were there, did you watch the kids and hear their excitement?
Sometimes I've felt jealousy about something my kids get to do, but
it's fleeting and I recognize it. I've seen in strong in my
husband, but after a few years he started recognizing what it was and
moving past it too. Some parents just live there, and resent
anything their children get to do or have or be. It will stunt you,
it will not enlarge you.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
Generosity is good.
Neediness is not as good.
Sandra
> I would like to know how others feel about this and am looking=========================
> for any suggestions for dealing with it, or at least dealing with
> my feelings regarding it.
Trying to sort through childhood frustrations and regrets is hard but
worthwhile, especially when we have children of our own.
Don't limit your son's life because your own was limited. Don't
resent others' joy because you had to wait in line and share with
lots of siblings. It's a harsh and grey place to come from.
You don't have to live in the grumpy shadows. You can start to want
and be sunshine without even taking a step in any direction. It's
just thoughts.
-=-I can't help feeling that it is so unnecessary to spend so much
money on a child's birthday party.-=-
Do you want to live in that narrow channel of "necessary"?
What about "possible"?
What about just making a decision because it's fun?
Did the kids have fun in that bouncy castle? It's not clear whether
you were there or you just heard about it later.
If you were there, did you watch the kids and hear their excitement?
Sometimes I've felt jealousy about something my kids get to do, but
it's fleeting and I recognize it. I've seen in strong in my
husband, but after a few years he started recognizing what it was and
moving past it too. Some parents just live there, and resent
anything their children get to do or have or be. It will stunt you,
it will not enlarge you.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
Generosity is good.
Neediness is not as good.
Sandra
Dawn White
Just my two cents worth here, but I totally agree with you Marianne. I grew up the same way as you regarding birthday parties and I do the same with my children. In this situation I believe "less is more". I think my children appreciate the gifts they receive more than other children I know.
Dawn
Marianne Pfister <allowinglife@...> wrote:
A friend of mine had a birthday party for her son this weekend and I was shocked to find out that she had rented one of those big blow up bouncy castles. (Her son turned five.) I can't help feeling that it is so unnecessary to spend so much money on a child's birthday party. Receiving 10 toys at one time also seems like a bit much. I think part of my problem is due to the fact that since I grew up with 8 people in my family, we never needed "friend" birthday parties. We just didn't have them. In addition, we would only receive one gift.
Whenever I attend a child's birthday party, I often leave feeling that I am the only one in the world who feels that children can have fun without involving a lot of money. It seems like everything in the world has been commercialized....hmmm, I can't seem to avoid it, and yet I feel can't just accept it.
I would like to know how others feel about this and am looking for any suggestions for dealing with it, or at least dealing with my feelings regarding it.
~ Marianne
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Dawn
Marianne Pfister <allowinglife@...> wrote:
A friend of mine had a birthday party for her son this weekend and I was shocked to find out that she had rented one of those big blow up bouncy castles. (Her son turned five.) I can't help feeling that it is so unnecessary to spend so much money on a child's birthday party. Receiving 10 toys at one time also seems like a bit much. I think part of my problem is due to the fact that since I grew up with 8 people in my family, we never needed "friend" birthday parties. We just didn't have them. In addition, we would only receive one gift.
Whenever I attend a child's birthday party, I often leave feeling that I am the only one in the world who feels that children can have fun without involving a lot of money. It seems like everything in the world has been commercialized....hmmm, I can't seem to avoid it, and yet I feel can't just accept it.
I would like to know how others feel about this and am looking for any suggestions for dealing with it, or at least dealing with my feelings regarding it.
~ Marianne
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Unschooling Attachment parenting John holt Parenting magazine Single parenting
---------------------------------
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Sandra Dodd
On Jan 1, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Dawn White wrote:
those who get three. But creating paucity in order to increase
appreciation isn't very generous or loving.
Unschooling doesn't work very well when children feel needy.
Learning doesn't work when a child feels hungry or needy. (Maslow's
Hierarchy of Needs)
Sandra
> In this situation I believe "less is more". I think my childrenSomeone who only gets one meal a day might appreciate it more than
> appreciate the gifts they receive more than other children I know.
those who get three. But creating paucity in order to increase
appreciation isn't very generous or loving.
Unschooling doesn't work very well when children feel needy.
Learning doesn't work when a child feels hungry or needy. (Maslow's
Hierarchy of Needs)
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jan 1, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Dawn White wrote:
birthdays with them? Do you tell them not to bring gifts? Do you not
let your kids go to other kids' birthday parties and take them gifts?
My kids have done all KINDS of birthday things. Often just our family
will go out to dinner and to the theater. They've occasionally had
parties - but that isn't usually what they choose. Lots of times they
invite a friend to go do something special. Always something
different. My extended family always celebrates each of our birthdays
- that's my two sisters, their husbands and kids (age range now from
12 to 25). We combine birthdays of those who are very close together
- we all go to the park together, usually, and we share food, play
some games, talk and hang out, have some birthday cake, and open
presents.
It doesn't seem to matter to my kids whether or not they get a lot of
gifts. They enjoy and appreciate them when they get them - they don't
miss them if they don't. They aren't deciding what to do for their
birthday based on getting or not getting gifts.
IMPOSING a "less is more" principle on a child just sounds
puritanical, though, to me. What if a child thinks having a big party
and getting lots of gifts sounds really fun? Would you say no?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Just my two cents worth here, but I totally agree with youSo do you not invite other people to celebrate your children's
> Marianne. I grew up the same way as you regarding birthday parties
> and I do the same with my children. In this situation I believe
> "less is more". I think my children appreciate the gifts they
> receive more than other children I know.
birthdays with them? Do you tell them not to bring gifts? Do you not
let your kids go to other kids' birthday parties and take them gifts?
My kids have done all KINDS of birthday things. Often just our family
will go out to dinner and to the theater. They've occasionally had
parties - but that isn't usually what they choose. Lots of times they
invite a friend to go do something special. Always something
different. My extended family always celebrates each of our birthdays
- that's my two sisters, their husbands and kids (age range now from
12 to 25). We combine birthdays of those who are very close together
- we all go to the park together, usually, and we share food, play
some games, talk and hang out, have some birthday cake, and open
presents.
It doesn't seem to matter to my kids whether or not they get a lot of
gifts. They enjoy and appreciate them when they get them - they don't
miss them if they don't. They aren't deciding what to do for their
birthday based on getting or not getting gifts.
IMPOSING a "less is more" principle on a child just sounds
puritanical, though, to me. What if a child thinks having a big party
and getting lots of gifts sounds really fun? Would you say no?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marianne Pfister
"But creating paucity in order to increase appreciation isn't very generous or loving."
Would receiving only one gift for your birthday result in making a child feel needy or unloved? I don't think so.
On the other hand, perhaps there are people who would/do feel unloved when they do not receive things in generous portions. This reminds me of a book a read a few years ago. Gary Chapman "describe five ways we can connect with our children: physical touch, quality time, words of affirmation, gifts, and acts of service." in his book, The Five Love Languages of Children. Though it has been a while since I read this book, I recall it being an interesting read.
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Would receiving only one gift for your birthday result in making a child feel needy or unloved? I don't think so.
On the other hand, perhaps there are people who would/do feel unloved when they do not receive things in generous portions. This reminds me of a book a read a few years ago. Gary Chapman "describe five ways we can connect with our children: physical touch, quality time, words of affirmation, gifts, and acts of service." in his book, The Five Love Languages of Children. Though it has been a while since I read this book, I recall it being an interesting read.
---------------------------------
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[email protected]
Hi everyone. We're new, Pattie and Michael in northern Virginia, and we have
twin daughters who will be 10 in April. This birthday party thread is
interesting, and while there are no easy answers, and probably not even a single
answer that works for all people all the time, we'll just add this: We've done
relatively expensive (and showy?) 'paint your own pottery' birthdays, we've done
similar gymnastics parties (at a local gym) and our daughters have attended
even more splashy parties, e.g. an acting troupe acted out Sleeping Beauty
complete with costumes and sets!
But our kids favorite ever, so far, birthday party?
My wife and I created a little treasure map, wrote out clues at each station,
and the kids ran around inside and outside our house getting the "treasure"
(courtesy of the local $1 store). We had the mandatory cake, of course, but
that was it. Several kids afterward told their parents they wanted that kind of
party.
So now that we've further confused the discussion...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
twin daughters who will be 10 in April. This birthday party thread is
interesting, and while there are no easy answers, and probably not even a single
answer that works for all people all the time, we'll just add this: We've done
relatively expensive (and showy?) 'paint your own pottery' birthdays, we've done
similar gymnastics parties (at a local gym) and our daughters have attended
even more splashy parties, e.g. an acting troupe acted out Sleeping Beauty
complete with costumes and sets!
But our kids favorite ever, so far, birthday party?
My wife and I created a little treasure map, wrote out clues at each station,
and the kids ran around inside and outside our house getting the "treasure"
(courtesy of the local $1 store). We had the mandatory cake, of course, but
that was it. Several kids afterward told their parents they wanted that kind of
party.
So now that we've further confused the discussion...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Susan McGlohn
At 21:33 1/1/2006, you wrote:
gifts. That isn't what I read Sandra as saying. It is about living
joyfully and abundantly and freely. It's about not imposing our own values
onto our children's happiness.
There have been lots of discussions over the months on here and elsewhere
about how parents impose their values on kids about TV shows, bedtimes,
what is good to eat and what isn't, what is good to read and what isn't,
and what is environmentally good and what isn't, whether it is plastic toys
versus wooden ones, or video games versus board games.
Like Sam was sharing about realizing he was imposing his judgement about
the tv shows the boys wanted to watch, if your kids attend a boisterous and
expensive party, and the birthday child got lots of presents, and on the
way home you are clucking and complaining about the wastefulness or
spoiling or whatever you are thinking it is, your child is not going to
feel that she can say, "I really loved that party. It was one of the best
parties I've been to!"
Any time a parent passes judgement on something a child enjoys, even
silently, through their posture, or a look that crosses their face, or
their own lack of enthusiasm or refusal to join in the child's passion,
they are imposing their prejudice upon their children. They are creating
an atmosphere of unacceptance and ridicule and judgement. The child will
most likely give up that thing he enjoys to obtain the parent's favor, but
it will be at a greater cost than a video game or a pony ride or 3 more
birthday presents.
No one can teach another person gratitude or generosity, neither by
supplying tons of gifts nor refraining from them. They come from a heart
that feels joyfully and abundantly cared for.
Susan (in VA)
wife to VegMan (aka Ted) since 12/86
momma to Sarah (10/89), Andrew (6/91), and Aaron (3/98)
"It's a small world....but a BIG life!" ~ Aaron, age 6
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>It isn't about big parties versus littler parties or the number of
> Would receiving only one gift for your birthday result in making a
> child feel needy or unloved? I don't think so.
>
gifts. That isn't what I read Sandra as saying. It is about living
joyfully and abundantly and freely. It's about not imposing our own values
onto our children's happiness.
There have been lots of discussions over the months on here and elsewhere
about how parents impose their values on kids about TV shows, bedtimes,
what is good to eat and what isn't, what is good to read and what isn't,
and what is environmentally good and what isn't, whether it is plastic toys
versus wooden ones, or video games versus board games.
Like Sam was sharing about realizing he was imposing his judgement about
the tv shows the boys wanted to watch, if your kids attend a boisterous and
expensive party, and the birthday child got lots of presents, and on the
way home you are clucking and complaining about the wastefulness or
spoiling or whatever you are thinking it is, your child is not going to
feel that she can say, "I really loved that party. It was one of the best
parties I've been to!"
Any time a parent passes judgement on something a child enjoys, even
silently, through their posture, or a look that crosses their face, or
their own lack of enthusiasm or refusal to join in the child's passion,
they are imposing their prejudice upon their children. They are creating
an atmosphere of unacceptance and ridicule and judgement. The child will
most likely give up that thing he enjoys to obtain the parent's favor, but
it will be at a greater cost than a video game or a pony ride or 3 more
birthday presents.
No one can teach another person gratitude or generosity, neither by
supplying tons of gifts nor refraining from them. They come from a heart
that feels joyfully and abundantly cared for.
Susan (in VA)
wife to VegMan (aka Ted) since 12/86
momma to Sarah (10/89), Andrew (6/91), and Aaron (3/98)
"It's a small world....but a BIG life!" ~ Aaron, age 6
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jan 1, 2006, at 6:38 PM, JMCAUSEYJ@... wrote:
So - we had it at a park and told her to go ahead, invite everybody
she wanted. It was HUGE - she invited something like 60 kids and
maybe 45 showed up. We ordered pizza and had a big cake and big tub
of ice cream. We played outdoor games - big group cooperative games,
mostly, plus some creative relay races. It was a lot of fun. But the
highlight was that we had spray painted bags full of aquarium gravel
with bright glittery gold paint - and we threw it in the sand all
over the large playground and the kids "panned for gold." They
didn't get any prizes or anything - we just gave them little baggies
to take their gold home with them! They LOVED it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My wife and I created a little treasure map, wrote out clues atFor Roya's 9th birthday, she wanted a party with "all" her friends.
> each station,
> and the kids ran around inside and outside our house getting the
> "treasure"
> (courtesy of the local $1 store). We had the mandatory cake, of
> course, but
> that was it. Several kids afterward told their parents they wanted
> that kind of
> party.
>
> So now that we've further confused the discussion...
So - we had it at a park and told her to go ahead, invite everybody
she wanted. It was HUGE - she invited something like 60 kids and
maybe 45 showed up. We ordered pizza and had a big cake and big tub
of ice cream. We played outdoor games - big group cooperative games,
mostly, plus some creative relay races. It was a lot of fun. But the
highlight was that we had spray painted bags full of aquarium gravel
with bright glittery gold paint - and we threw it in the sand all
over the large playground and the kids "panned for gold." They
didn't get any prizes or anything - we just gave them little baggies
to take their gold home with them! They LOVED it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
NANCY OWENS
Dawn White <forhim2730@...> wrote:
Just my two cents worth here, but I totally agree with you Marianne. I grew up the same way as you regarding birthday parties and I do the same with my children. In this situation I believe "less is more". I think my children appreciate the gifts they receive more than other children I know.
*****************
Why do you totally agree? I grew up with parents who could pretty much afford the moon if they wanted. Did they give any of that to me? Nope. Am I bitter? Yes. But not because I feel I should have or that it was my right or any thing like that. I'm bitter because with every NO I got I also got a 'when I was a kid we had nothing' story. I grew up feeling that since they didn't have anything growing up I was being punished for it. I grew up feeling guilty every time I asked for something or needed something. It didn't matter if I needed new jeans or I wanted an extra helping at meal time. I felt guilty. I wanted to play the guitar desperately, but my Mom didn't get to play the flute. They did become better parents. My sister got to play the flute, and my brother got to play the drums. I was definitely their experimental kid. Sad for me, but good for my little sister and brother. I am grateful for anything positive that came out of my upbringing. (rather, maybe I should say, I've
learned to be positive about things I could still wallow in?)
Darin and I haven't always been able to afford birthdays and holidays. It's been rough. Probably rougher on us than the kids because we want so much to give them what we didn't have. Darin grew up poor, poorer than he probably should have because his mom mismanaged money. I grew up with rich parents who thought I should know the value of being poor. So if there is a birthday where I can afford to do that dream thing, where it isn't going to interfere with food on the table for a week or heat or what ever than I'm all for it. And if it looks like it is, than I start saving for it well in advance.
Moly is getting ONLY one gift this year. On the 25th of this month she will be twelve and the weekend before, Darin is coming home. We are going to take her out to a Japanese restaurant and give her a long thin box with drum sticks in it. Only because I really don't want to wrap a whole trap set up! <g> I'm excited! Two years ago her wish was a new bike. One I really couldn't afford at the time. But I saved, and got it for her. I remember that want. The year I wanted a bike, my Dad went to a thrift store and got me this ugly red boys bike. I had to prove I really wanted a bike like my friends had. I had to learn to ride on that old thing, I had to get good grades, I had to be a good girl... It took me two years to prove I was worthy of a new, pretty, girls bike. The year Darin wanted a bike, he had to save on his own. It's hard for a seven year old to save that kind of money. I feel bad for begrudging an ugly used bike when my husband would have been grateful for the chain... I
hope that my kids won't grow up knowing that feeling. I don't want them growing up with the exact opposite feeling of I want=I get, but I don't want them to feel that their wants and needs were unimportant, or that less is more. Because less isn't always more. I do want them to understand that it is the thought that counts, that there are gifts from the heart. That homemade is nice and wonderful. But I also don't want them to think that gifts are 'have to' or come with attachments.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just my two cents worth here, but I totally agree with you Marianne. I grew up the same way as you regarding birthday parties and I do the same with my children. In this situation I believe "less is more". I think my children appreciate the gifts they receive more than other children I know.
*****************
Why do you totally agree? I grew up with parents who could pretty much afford the moon if they wanted. Did they give any of that to me? Nope. Am I bitter? Yes. But not because I feel I should have or that it was my right or any thing like that. I'm bitter because with every NO I got I also got a 'when I was a kid we had nothing' story. I grew up feeling that since they didn't have anything growing up I was being punished for it. I grew up feeling guilty every time I asked for something or needed something. It didn't matter if I needed new jeans or I wanted an extra helping at meal time. I felt guilty. I wanted to play the guitar desperately, but my Mom didn't get to play the flute. They did become better parents. My sister got to play the flute, and my brother got to play the drums. I was definitely their experimental kid. Sad for me, but good for my little sister and brother. I am grateful for anything positive that came out of my upbringing. (rather, maybe I should say, I've
learned to be positive about things I could still wallow in?)
Darin and I haven't always been able to afford birthdays and holidays. It's been rough. Probably rougher on us than the kids because we want so much to give them what we didn't have. Darin grew up poor, poorer than he probably should have because his mom mismanaged money. I grew up with rich parents who thought I should know the value of being poor. So if there is a birthday where I can afford to do that dream thing, where it isn't going to interfere with food on the table for a week or heat or what ever than I'm all for it. And if it looks like it is, than I start saving for it well in advance.
Moly is getting ONLY one gift this year. On the 25th of this month she will be twelve and the weekend before, Darin is coming home. We are going to take her out to a Japanese restaurant and give her a long thin box with drum sticks in it. Only because I really don't want to wrap a whole trap set up! <g> I'm excited! Two years ago her wish was a new bike. One I really couldn't afford at the time. But I saved, and got it for her. I remember that want. The year I wanted a bike, my Dad went to a thrift store and got me this ugly red boys bike. I had to prove I really wanted a bike like my friends had. I had to learn to ride on that old thing, I had to get good grades, I had to be a good girl... It took me two years to prove I was worthy of a new, pretty, girls bike. The year Darin wanted a bike, he had to save on his own. It's hard for a seven year old to save that kind of money. I feel bad for begrudging an ugly used bike when my husband would have been grateful for the chain... I
hope that my kids won't grow up knowing that feeling. I don't want them growing up with the exact opposite feeling of I want=I get, but I don't want them to feel that their wants and needs were unimportant, or that less is more. Because less isn't always more. I do want them to understand that it is the thought that counts, that there are gifts from the heart. That homemade is nice and wonderful. But I also don't want them to think that gifts are 'have to' or come with attachments.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marianne Pfister
I think I have been able to agree with everyone regarding the birthday party. I have been giving ever thing said a lot of thought.
One thing, one simple thing, stood out the most for me, did the kids have fun? YES, Everyone loved it! Me? NO! I just sat their begin judgmental! It was terrible, I was terrible. I see it was judgment that made me feel so bad after leaving, not the bouncy house at all. I couldn't even be happy! This is my biggest issue. I'm not even consistent about it; sometimes I am OK with spending money on something, other times "No Way".
I would like to work on being more observant and less judgmental. When you see how someone else does things, I think it is fine to observe how you feel about it. It gives you an opportunity to learn something about yourself. How, why would you do things? If differently? The problem is stopping with the observation before it turns into a judgment. Does that make sense. My perspective may be different but not better.
I had this boyfriend once who always wanted to go out drinking on weekends. I never wanted to go because I didn't want to spend my money in a bar. It always bothered him because he thought that I was just being cheep, (OK, obviously this may be partly true). But, I wanted to spend my money at the book store. That was my priority at the time.
I started working when I was 13 years old. My parents put no restrictions on what I did with my earned income. So, what did I do with it? Bought clothing. Very expensive, fashionable clothing. It never mattered to me what things cost, if I wanted it, I bought it....with my own hard earned money. My parents never judge me for that. This is not what I spend money on now, but clothing was my priority then.
My friend's priority at this time in her life is her children. She used her own hard earned money to help her son have a great birthday celebration. Her son and all his friends had a wonderful time! It was a great party.
Thank you for letting me see this! Now I want a bouncy house!
~ Marianne
Very helpful thoughts:
"Pamela Sorooshian" wrote:
Do you have just the one child? Are you perhaps feeling that he might be "spoiled" by all the attention and having more material goods than what you, yourself, had? Could you be slightly envious, even?
Like you're negative about it just BECAUSE it cost money and isn't "necessary." Is "necessary" going to be your criterion for judging the value of things your child might enjoy? Do you tell your child things like: "No, you don't need a cookie?"
Sandra Dodd had to say this:
You don't have to live in the grumpy shadows. You can start to want and be sunshine without even taking a step in any direction. It's just thoughts.
Do you want to live in that narrow channel of "necessary"?
What about "possible"? What about just making a decision because it's fun? Did the kids have fun in that bouncy castle? It's not clear whether you were there or you just heard about it later. If you were there, did you watch the kids and hear their excitement?
Susan McGlohn added this:
It isn't about big parties versus littler parties or the number of gifts. That isn't what I read Sandra as saying. It is about living joyfully and abundantly and freely. It's about not imposing our own values onto our children's happiness.
Any time a parent passes judgement on something a child enjoys, even silently, through their posture, or a look that crosses their face, or their own lack of enthusiasm or refusal to join in the child's passion, they are imposing their prejudice upon their children. They are creating an atmosphere of unacceptance and ridicule and judgement. The child will
most likely give up that thing he enjoys to obtain the parent's favor, but it will be at a greater cost than a video game or a pony ride or 3 more birthday presents.
No one can teach another person gratitude or generosity, neither by supplying tons of gifts nor refraining from them. They come from a heart that feels joyfully and abundantly cared for.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One thing, one simple thing, stood out the most for me, did the kids have fun? YES, Everyone loved it! Me? NO! I just sat their begin judgmental! It was terrible, I was terrible. I see it was judgment that made me feel so bad after leaving, not the bouncy house at all. I couldn't even be happy! This is my biggest issue. I'm not even consistent about it; sometimes I am OK with spending money on something, other times "No Way".
I would like to work on being more observant and less judgmental. When you see how someone else does things, I think it is fine to observe how you feel about it. It gives you an opportunity to learn something about yourself. How, why would you do things? If differently? The problem is stopping with the observation before it turns into a judgment. Does that make sense. My perspective may be different but not better.
I had this boyfriend once who always wanted to go out drinking on weekends. I never wanted to go because I didn't want to spend my money in a bar. It always bothered him because he thought that I was just being cheep, (OK, obviously this may be partly true). But, I wanted to spend my money at the book store. That was my priority at the time.
I started working when I was 13 years old. My parents put no restrictions on what I did with my earned income. So, what did I do with it? Bought clothing. Very expensive, fashionable clothing. It never mattered to me what things cost, if I wanted it, I bought it....with my own hard earned money. My parents never judge me for that. This is not what I spend money on now, but clothing was my priority then.
My friend's priority at this time in her life is her children. She used her own hard earned money to help her son have a great birthday celebration. Her son and all his friends had a wonderful time! It was a great party.
Thank you for letting me see this! Now I want a bouncy house!
~ Marianne
Very helpful thoughts:
"Pamela Sorooshian" wrote:
Do you have just the one child? Are you perhaps feeling that he might be "spoiled" by all the attention and having more material goods than what you, yourself, had? Could you be slightly envious, even?
Like you're negative about it just BECAUSE it cost money and isn't "necessary." Is "necessary" going to be your criterion for judging the value of things your child might enjoy? Do you tell your child things like: "No, you don't need a cookie?"
Sandra Dodd had to say this:
You don't have to live in the grumpy shadows. You can start to want and be sunshine without even taking a step in any direction. It's just thoughts.
Do you want to live in that narrow channel of "necessary"?
What about "possible"? What about just making a decision because it's fun? Did the kids have fun in that bouncy castle? It's not clear whether you were there or you just heard about it later. If you were there, did you watch the kids and hear their excitement?
Susan McGlohn added this:
It isn't about big parties versus littler parties or the number of gifts. That isn't what I read Sandra as saying. It is about living joyfully and abundantly and freely. It's about not imposing our own values onto our children's happiness.
Any time a parent passes judgement on something a child enjoys, even silently, through their posture, or a look that crosses their face, or their own lack of enthusiasm or refusal to join in the child's passion, they are imposing their prejudice upon their children. They are creating an atmosphere of unacceptance and ridicule and judgement. The child will
most likely give up that thing he enjoys to obtain the parent's favor, but it will be at a greater cost than a video game or a pony ride or 3 more birthday presents.
No one can teach another person gratitude or generosity, neither by supplying tons of gifts nor refraining from them. They come from a heart that feels joyfully and abundantly cared for.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 1, 2006, at 7:20 PM, Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
hot in costumes). There are photos linked from http://sandradodd.com/
kirby
Holly turned 14 in November, and rather than a party, she spent the
day at the mall with her friend Jasmine, who lives in England but has
now for the third year come here for Halloween and Holly's birthday.
She has four grandparents here, so it's not just to see Holly, but
she likes Halloween a lot, and Holly's birthday is two days after,
so she stays with us those few days. Next year they'll be too old to
trick-or-treat, probably.
Marty will be 17 on the 14th. Because it's a Saturday I suggested we
have a party (though I would've offered in any case). Last year he
opted for dinner and a movie with friends, but some of them were
broke so it ended up not only was he not treated by them, but he had
to pay for some of their food and movie. It was kind of a bust. So
this year some of those are planning something special for him, to
make up for it.
I asked him yesterday if there was anything he wanted (giftwise), but
Christmas just passed and he liked the things he got and he couldn't
think of anything. He has a job, so he doesn't need money.
Once for one of Marty's birthdays we hired a friend of ours who had a
Magic Fairy routine. She did a clown sometimes, and a magic fairy
others, and we hired her for $50 I think as a magic fairy. Another
time we hired a family of unschooled kids who had a magic and
juggling show, for a party at my sister's house. That was our gift,
but we were doing a favor for the family we hired, and for our kids
(who were friends of theirs) and for my sister's kids (who hadn't met
them, but the whole families became friends for years after).
My kids have been to parties at places like little amusement parks or
museums which were probably more expensive overall than renting a
bouncy house would have been, but sometimes it was because the family
didn't have room at home for a party. Our best parties were on the
patio at our old house, where there was lots of room and a swingset
and a sandbox.
I do miss having little kids who are so excited about birthdays, and
I'm glad we put so much into their celebrations. They often had
homemade cakes, sometimes fancy ones by friends, sometimes plainer
ones by me, sometimes storebought, but they were always happily and
gratefully received and shared.
My mother let me have one single birthday party and it wasn't very
good at all, so I was happy not to have another one. I wanted a
merrier life for my children, and have accomplished that pretty well.
Sandra
> -=-My kids have done all KINDS of birthday things. Often just ourMine too. Kirby turned 19 and had a costume party (in July; pretty
> family
> will go out to dinner and to the theater. They've occasionally had
> parties - but that isn't usually what they choose. Lots of times they
> invite a friend to go do something special. Always something
> different. -=-
hot in costumes). There are photos linked from http://sandradodd.com/
kirby
Holly turned 14 in November, and rather than a party, she spent the
day at the mall with her friend Jasmine, who lives in England but has
now for the third year come here for Halloween and Holly's birthday.
She has four grandparents here, so it's not just to see Holly, but
she likes Halloween a lot, and Holly's birthday is two days after,
so she stays with us those few days. Next year they'll be too old to
trick-or-treat, probably.
Marty will be 17 on the 14th. Because it's a Saturday I suggested we
have a party (though I would've offered in any case). Last year he
opted for dinner and a movie with friends, but some of them were
broke so it ended up not only was he not treated by them, but he had
to pay for some of their food and movie. It was kind of a bust. So
this year some of those are planning something special for him, to
make up for it.
I asked him yesterday if there was anything he wanted (giftwise), but
Christmas just passed and he liked the things he got and he couldn't
think of anything. He has a job, so he doesn't need money.
Once for one of Marty's birthdays we hired a friend of ours who had a
Magic Fairy routine. She did a clown sometimes, and a magic fairy
others, and we hired her for $50 I think as a magic fairy. Another
time we hired a family of unschooled kids who had a magic and
juggling show, for a party at my sister's house. That was our gift,
but we were doing a favor for the family we hired, and for our kids
(who were friends of theirs) and for my sister's kids (who hadn't met
them, but the whole families became friends for years after).
My kids have been to parties at places like little amusement parks or
museums which were probably more expensive overall than renting a
bouncy house would have been, but sometimes it was because the family
didn't have room at home for a party. Our best parties were on the
patio at our old house, where there was lots of room and a swingset
and a sandbox.
I do miss having little kids who are so excited about birthdays, and
I'm glad we put so much into their celebrations. They often had
homemade cakes, sometimes fancy ones by friends, sometimes plainer
ones by me, sometimes storebought, but they were always happily and
gratefully received and shared.
My mother let me have one single birthday party and it wasn't very
good at all, so I was happy not to have another one. I wanted a
merrier life for my children, and have accomplished that pretty well.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 2, 2006, at 6:29 AM, Marianne Pfister wrote:
I have voices in my head. Mostly they're my grandmothers, but there
are a few others. I learned a long time ago to have my dialog with
those parroting memories. They were just reciting what THEIR mothers
said, probably. At some point it's worth talking back to the ghosts
of your ancestors, if they're mean and wounded. And if they use
terms like "brat" and "selfish" especially. So I re-thought and
recast my grandmothers as people I wished could have had a sweeter,
gentler upbringing and happier marriages, and more comfortable
surroundings, and tried to pour my good wishes on the sad little
girls who were still trapped inside them their whole lives.
That helped inside my head.
What helped outside was putting their lacks on the list of things to
avoid with my own children.
If they didn't have enough food and it affected them for life, I
offered my children more food.
Because they both talked about unreasonable amounts of chores and
lack of gratitude or acknowledgment, I always thank my children every
time they help.
Because one of them was pressed to mother her six younger siblings
and married at the first opportunity to escape that (and because of
another couple of experiences too) I tried never to leave one of my
children in charge of the safety or well-being of another one, and if
for a brief period I did need to, I thanked him profusely.
Seeing the longterm effects of certain parenting decisions and
practices helped me create my internal list of priorities and of
traps to avoid.
Gradually, over years, I've cleaned, updated and reorganized those
lists and priorities. I continue to do so.
Sandra
> One thing, one simple thing, stood out the most for me, did the===============================
> kids have fun? YES, Everyone loved it! Me? NO! I just sat their
> begin judgmental! It was terrible, I was terrible. I see it was
> judgment that made me feel so bad after leaving, not the bouncy
> house at all. I couldn't even be happy!
I have voices in my head. Mostly they're my grandmothers, but there
are a few others. I learned a long time ago to have my dialog with
those parroting memories. They were just reciting what THEIR mothers
said, probably. At some point it's worth talking back to the ghosts
of your ancestors, if they're mean and wounded. And if they use
terms like "brat" and "selfish" especially. So I re-thought and
recast my grandmothers as people I wished could have had a sweeter,
gentler upbringing and happier marriages, and more comfortable
surroundings, and tried to pour my good wishes on the sad little
girls who were still trapped inside them their whole lives.
That helped inside my head.
What helped outside was putting their lacks on the list of things to
avoid with my own children.
If they didn't have enough food and it affected them for life, I
offered my children more food.
Because they both talked about unreasonable amounts of chores and
lack of gratitude or acknowledgment, I always thank my children every
time they help.
Because one of them was pressed to mother her six younger siblings
and married at the first opportunity to escape that (and because of
another couple of experiences too) I tried never to leave one of my
children in charge of the safety or well-being of another one, and if
for a brief period I did need to, I thanked him profusely.
Seeing the longterm effects of certain parenting decisions and
practices helped me create my internal list of priorities and of
traps to avoid.
Gradually, over years, I've cleaned, updated and reorganized those
lists and priorities. I continue to do so.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 1, 2006, at 7:33 PM, Marianne Pfister wrote:
If the singularity of the gift is declared to be proof against
becoming spoiled and ungrateful, I think there is a chance of that.
I grew up hearing about how other children were "spoiled" because
they had more than I did, but some of the nicest and most generous
people I knew had more than I had, and some of the meanest and
stingiest and least content had the same or less than I had, so I
could tell even at a very early age that it was more about attitude
and joy than about quantity or quality.
I have come to see the concept of being "poiled" as a boogey-man
used for control and justification of parental limitations on a
child's world.
http://sandradodd.com/spoiled
I wrote it better there.
Sandra
> -=- Would receiving only one gift for your birthday result inIt depends on many factors.
> making a child feel needy or unloved? I don't think so. -=-
If the singularity of the gift is declared to be proof against
becoming spoiled and ungrateful, I think there is a chance of that.
I grew up hearing about how other children were "spoiled" because
they had more than I did, but some of the nicest and most generous
people I knew had more than I had, and some of the meanest and
stingiest and least content had the same or less than I had, so I
could tell even at a very early age that it was more about attitude
and joy than about quantity or quality.
I have come to see the concept of being "poiled" as a boogey-man
used for control and justification of parental limitations on a
child's world.
http://sandradodd.com/spoiled
I wrote it better there.
Sandra
Betsy Hill
**
But, I wanted to spend my money at the book store. That was my priority at the time.**
I know more than one homeschooling mom (incl. me) who doesn't get haircuts because she wants to spend money at the bookstore! You're going to fit in fine here.
Betsy
But, I wanted to spend my money at the book store. That was my priority at the time.**
I know more than one homeschooling mom (incl. me) who doesn't get haircuts because she wants to spend money at the bookstore! You're going to fit in fine here.
Betsy