Chores
Tracey Inman
I just finished reading Joyce's post. Well-said Joyce! I am usually a
lurker but just felt like sharing today.
I have really evolved with this chore thing. As a child, my whole life was
a "have to". If I didn't do x and x then I was restricted or told what a
bad person I was in so many terms. I never had chores per say for our girls
until we started homeschooling. I was the one who ordered the "best
curriculum" and set up a chore chart. (UGH, makes me cringe just telling
ya'll about this!) Once our girls got to the age of 4 or so we always gave
them some sort of allowance so they could have money of their own and make
purchases or save. When we pulled our girls out of school the chore chart
became their way of making money. No allowance just paid for the chores
they did. The rule was dh and I would pay for needs and the girls paid for
wants. Shortly after we began homeschooling we had to move. We went
through about a year of living with our parents. It was during that time I
found unschooling. And that is when the paradigm shift started. Luckily my
dh and I were on the same page from the beginning. Of course the worst
place to start unschooling is when you are living with parents whom are/were
schoolteachers. Both of our moms have been in the school system for years.
My mom taught 35 years. My dh and I stayed strong and kept reading and
growing. However, during the transition we started just giving our girls an
allowance again. Once we moved into our new home and got settled I had been
reading and growing enough to realize I did not want to "make" my girls do
anything. I must admit I would get really frustrated at times going behind
them picking up or cleaning the kitchen. But I tried really hard not to say
anything. (I failed a few times) I guess the old records I grew up with are
still there and I have to keep them at bay so they don't jump on the
turntable and start playing. Both our girls really love to save and to work
towards a goal if they have something they really want. So one day my
oldest asked me what they could do to earn money in addition to their
allowance! So here's what we do now...Certain items around the house are
worth .50 like cleaning the cat box, unloading the dishwasher, folding
clothes, emptying trash, etc. Then depending on things they pick up on
themselves they get more. For example, yesterday I came home and my almost
13yo had vacuumed part of the house, cleaned windows and mirrors, and
something else I can't remember. We talked about a fair wage and came up
with $6.00. Ended up I owed her $5.50 already so she asked for $6.50 to
make the total even! Got to love it :) Occasionally the girls will argue
over who called the dishwasher or a load of clothes. They are earning
pretty good money I must say. Tomorrow our family is running a concession
stand at a horse show and the girls want to help so we will pay them. This
whole thing has turned into a great way for them to earn money and purchase
those "wants". They both have been setting some money aside to open a
savings account. It has opened the door for some great discussion
surrounding investments, purchases, etc. I don't tell them not to buy
something but will sometimes help them think through it. Sometimes they buy
anyway and later wished they hadn't, but that's life. We have all done some
things like that. It is just another opportunity to learn. I suggested
they keep a journal/log of their income and expenditures. They sometimes
would wonder why they didn't have as much money as they thought. So both of
them keep a list of income and how they got it and on the other side they
keep a running log of what they spend and where they spent it. My almost
10yo went on a spending spree one day and spent $43.87. So she decided to
not spend anything else until she had replaced that amount. She worked hard
and it didn't take her long before she earned it back. But in the process
of doing this she got a separate piece of paper and at the top put $43.87
and every time she earned money she would subtract it from the $43.87 until
the total came to zero. And people wonder how we do math! There are some
adults that couldn't keep up with money management the way my girls can.
The plus for me is I have a lot of help around the house now and everybody
is still smiling! :) Maybe this will help someone else or maybe some of you
have other thoughts that might make this better.....Looking forward to more
discussion....
~Tracey Inman
lurker but just felt like sharing today.
I have really evolved with this chore thing. As a child, my whole life was
a "have to". If I didn't do x and x then I was restricted or told what a
bad person I was in so many terms. I never had chores per say for our girls
until we started homeschooling. I was the one who ordered the "best
curriculum" and set up a chore chart. (UGH, makes me cringe just telling
ya'll about this!) Once our girls got to the age of 4 or so we always gave
them some sort of allowance so they could have money of their own and make
purchases or save. When we pulled our girls out of school the chore chart
became their way of making money. No allowance just paid for the chores
they did. The rule was dh and I would pay for needs and the girls paid for
wants. Shortly after we began homeschooling we had to move. We went
through about a year of living with our parents. It was during that time I
found unschooling. And that is when the paradigm shift started. Luckily my
dh and I were on the same page from the beginning. Of course the worst
place to start unschooling is when you are living with parents whom are/were
schoolteachers. Both of our moms have been in the school system for years.
My mom taught 35 years. My dh and I stayed strong and kept reading and
growing. However, during the transition we started just giving our girls an
allowance again. Once we moved into our new home and got settled I had been
reading and growing enough to realize I did not want to "make" my girls do
anything. I must admit I would get really frustrated at times going behind
them picking up or cleaning the kitchen. But I tried really hard not to say
anything. (I failed a few times) I guess the old records I grew up with are
still there and I have to keep them at bay so they don't jump on the
turntable and start playing. Both our girls really love to save and to work
towards a goal if they have something they really want. So one day my
oldest asked me what they could do to earn money in addition to their
allowance! So here's what we do now...Certain items around the house are
worth .50 like cleaning the cat box, unloading the dishwasher, folding
clothes, emptying trash, etc. Then depending on things they pick up on
themselves they get more. For example, yesterday I came home and my almost
13yo had vacuumed part of the house, cleaned windows and mirrors, and
something else I can't remember. We talked about a fair wage and came up
with $6.00. Ended up I owed her $5.50 already so she asked for $6.50 to
make the total even! Got to love it :) Occasionally the girls will argue
over who called the dishwasher or a load of clothes. They are earning
pretty good money I must say. Tomorrow our family is running a concession
stand at a horse show and the girls want to help so we will pay them. This
whole thing has turned into a great way for them to earn money and purchase
those "wants". They both have been setting some money aside to open a
savings account. It has opened the door for some great discussion
surrounding investments, purchases, etc. I don't tell them not to buy
something but will sometimes help them think through it. Sometimes they buy
anyway and later wished they hadn't, but that's life. We have all done some
things like that. It is just another opportunity to learn. I suggested
they keep a journal/log of their income and expenditures. They sometimes
would wonder why they didn't have as much money as they thought. So both of
them keep a list of income and how they got it and on the other side they
keep a running log of what they spend and where they spent it. My almost
10yo went on a spending spree one day and spent $43.87. So she decided to
not spend anything else until she had replaced that amount. She worked hard
and it didn't take her long before she earned it back. But in the process
of doing this she got a separate piece of paper and at the top put $43.87
and every time she earned money she would subtract it from the $43.87 until
the total came to zero. And people wonder how we do math! There are some
adults that couldn't keep up with money management the way my girls can.
The plus for me is I have a lot of help around the house now and everybody
is still smiling! :) Maybe this will help someone else or maybe some of you
have other thoughts that might make this better.....Looking forward to more
discussion....
~Tracey Inman
[email protected]
Hi,
I always find chore/allowance discussions interesting. When my daughters
were growing up they received an allowance because they were part of the
family, and when my spouse (the only paid worker in the family at that time)
received a raise or a bonus, so did our daughters. Allowance was not tied to chores
in any way. We also gave the children age appropriate (in my opinion, at
least) chores with the expectation that they would do them because they were
part of the family. In deference to their schedules, we didn't give them
chores that had to be done at a particular time, but rather, we rotated three
lists for the three girls on a weekly basis. The kids could trade their lists,
pay one of the other kids to do their chores, or whatever they wanted; the
chores needed to be done by Friday night, and then they started their next week
and could do their chores over the weekend or during the following week.
Although the kids grumbled a bit now and then, they always did their chores as it
was an expectation we had set up when they were small. I recently read an
article by a Mother who felt any imposition of chores was detrimental to a
child's development into an autonomous individual; although she made some very
good points, they were not enough to dissuade me from thinking chores are a
natural part of one's daily functioning, and can enhance growth when doled out
respectfully.
Diane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I always find chore/allowance discussions interesting. When my daughters
were growing up they received an allowance because they were part of the
family, and when my spouse (the only paid worker in the family at that time)
received a raise or a bonus, so did our daughters. Allowance was not tied to chores
in any way. We also gave the children age appropriate (in my opinion, at
least) chores with the expectation that they would do them because they were
part of the family. In deference to their schedules, we didn't give them
chores that had to be done at a particular time, but rather, we rotated three
lists for the three girls on a weekly basis. The kids could trade their lists,
pay one of the other kids to do their chores, or whatever they wanted; the
chores needed to be done by Friday night, and then they started their next week
and could do their chores over the weekend or during the following week.
Although the kids grumbled a bit now and then, they always did their chores as it
was an expectation we had set up when they were small. I recently read an
article by a Mother who felt any imposition of chores was detrimental to a
child's development into an autonomous individual; although she made some very
good points, they were not enough to dissuade me from thinking chores are a
natural part of one's daily functioning, and can enhance growth when doled out
respectfully.
Diane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jfetteroll
**Although the kids grumbled a bit now and then, they always did
their chores as it was an expectation we had set up when they
were small.**
Which means that when priorities between children's happiness
and chores conflicted, chores took precedence.
If the kids and you have a good relationship it isn't because you
made them do chores. It's because of something else you did in
your relationship. Without being able to articulate what that was
in a way that others can do it too what you've described is just
parents making kids do chores. And that doesn't build good
relationships.
Joyce
their chores as it was an expectation we had set up when they
were small.**
Which means that when priorities between children's happiness
and chores conflicted, chores took precedence.
If the kids and you have a good relationship it isn't because you
made them do chores. It's because of something else you did in
your relationship. Without being able to articulate what that was
in a way that others can do it too what you've described is just
parents making kids do chores. And that doesn't build good
relationships.
Joyce
Roberta Romero
Julia and I use a point system. She gets 5 points for brushing her hair and 5 for brushing her teeth. (She hates to do these things.) She gets 5 points for sweeping the kitchen each day. She can earn points by cleaning. She looses points if she leaves a mess behind her that I have to pick up. She earns some of the biggest points by accompanying me to work. She can earn up to 100 points for a full days work. She entertains herself by reading or she helps me out if she can. 100 points is equal to 100 pesos (10 dollars). For me it costs less to pay her like this than it would cost to have a sitter and she prefers to be with me. She spends points in several ways. She can spend 5 points to have a coke, chocolate candy or other treat. She can also cash her points in for pesos to spend or put in her piggy bank or bank account. She is saving for a video camera and her ticket to France. She really, really wants to go to France. That isn't something in my budget, but since I'm not paying a
sitter, she chose to save some money that way. I said ok I'll pay my ticket then. She also chose to take French classes. I figure if she is that interested in going that I had better come up with a way for us to go.
Roberta
diane@... wrote:
Hi,
I always find chore/allowance discussions interesting. When my daughters
were growing up they received an allowance because they were part of the
family, and when my spouse (the only paid worker in the family at that time)
received a raise or a bonus, so did our daughters. Allowance was not tied to chores
in any way. We also gave the children age appropriate (in my opinion, at
least) chores with the expectation that they would do them because they were
part of the family. In deference to their schedules, we didn't give them
chores that had to be done at a particular time, but rather, we rotated three
lists for the three girls on a weekly basis. The kids could trade their lists,
pay one of the other kids to do their chores, or whatever they wanted; the
chores needed to be done by Friday night, and then they started their next week
and could do their chores over the weekend or during the following week.
Although the kids grumbled a bit now and then, they always did their chores as it
was an expectation we had set up when they were small. I recently read an
article by a Mother who felt any imposition of chores was detrimental to a
child's development into an autonomous individual; although she made some very
good points, they were not enough to dissuade me from thinking chores are a
natural part of one's daily functioning, and can enhance growth when doled out
respectfully.
Diane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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sitter, she chose to save some money that way. I said ok I'll pay my ticket then. She also chose to take French classes. I figure if she is that interested in going that I had better come up with a way for us to go.
Roberta
diane@... wrote:
Hi,
I always find chore/allowance discussions interesting. When my daughters
were growing up they received an allowance because they were part of the
family, and when my spouse (the only paid worker in the family at that time)
received a raise or a bonus, so did our daughters. Allowance was not tied to chores
in any way. We also gave the children age appropriate (in my opinion, at
least) chores with the expectation that they would do them because they were
part of the family. In deference to their schedules, we didn't give them
chores that had to be done at a particular time, but rather, we rotated three
lists for the three girls on a weekly basis. The kids could trade their lists,
pay one of the other kids to do their chores, or whatever they wanted; the
chores needed to be done by Friday night, and then they started their next week
and could do their chores over the weekend or during the following week.
Although the kids grumbled a bit now and then, they always did their chores as it
was an expectation we had set up when they were small. I recently read an
article by a Mother who felt any imposition of chores was detrimental to a
child's development into an autonomous individual; although she made some very
good points, they were not enough to dissuade me from thinking chores are a
natural part of one's daily functioning, and can enhance growth when doled out
respectfully.
Diane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SPONSORED LINKS
Unschooling Attachment parenting John holt Parenting magazine Single parenting
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "AlwaysLearning" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/24/05 2:55:27 AM, diane@... writes:
If you had a disabled child, he wouldn't be expected to mop the floor or
clean the toilet, and you would have MANY more "chores" yourself, taking care of
him. So in such comparative light, an able -bodied child being assigned
chores (as an army officer assigns duties to new recruits) might seem a punishment
for being able bodied.
I know all the arguments FOR chores. Lots of justification for chores.
Anyone who wants to bring those here should remember there is no one on this
list who hasn't probably been assigned chores or assigned them, who hasn't
heard and read the justifications for chores for something between many years and
a lifetime.
I bet there is no one here who hasn't also seen some detrimental effects to
people, property and relationships from the enforcement of chores, the failure
to do them on time or in a way to please the parent, the punishments that go
with that, the reactions to the punishments, the sneakiness it all engenders,
and the (sometime) resistance or refusal to do such tasks when the adult moves
out, the insistence/requirement that the spouse do "chores" with accompanying
argument and resentment and sometimes divorce, arguments over children's
chores and punishments...
When does it end?
Maybe it just begins a different way, with home maintenance being done out of
choice and from love and generosity.
http://sandradodd.com/chores
Some good things have been written by people who moved from one paradigm to
another.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> dissuade me from thinking chores are aHow do you really respectfully demand that a person do your bidding, though?
> natural part of one's daily functioning, and can enhance growth when doled
> out
> respectfully.
>
>
If you had a disabled child, he wouldn't be expected to mop the floor or
clean the toilet, and you would have MANY more "chores" yourself, taking care of
him. So in such comparative light, an able -bodied child being assigned
chores (as an army officer assigns duties to new recruits) might seem a punishment
for being able bodied.
I know all the arguments FOR chores. Lots of justification for chores.
Anyone who wants to bring those here should remember there is no one on this
list who hasn't probably been assigned chores or assigned them, who hasn't
heard and read the justifications for chores for something between many years and
a lifetime.
I bet there is no one here who hasn't also seen some detrimental effects to
people, property and relationships from the enforcement of chores, the failure
to do them on time or in a way to please the parent, the punishments that go
with that, the reactions to the punishments, the sneakiness it all engenders,
and the (sometime) resistance or refusal to do such tasks when the adult moves
out, the insistence/requirement that the spouse do "chores" with accompanying
argument and resentment and sometimes divorce, arguments over children's
chores and punishments...
When does it end?
Maybe it just begins a different way, with home maintenance being done out of
choice and from love and generosity.
http://sandradodd.com/chores
Some good things have been written by people who moved from one paradigm to
another.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/24/05 8:49:56 AM, lagobonita@... writes:
Who will pay her to brush her hair when she's grown?
In an unschooling context that all sounds like a giant step in the wrong
direction to me. It's not relationship building.
I just talked to my husband's oldest brother, who is finally initiating a
divorce after being separated for eight or ten years. His interest in money
destroyed his family, destroyed his relationship with his sons (who are now 18
and 20), he refused to pay tuition to a college his son got into, he refused to
lend him $8000 as part of a $20,000 truck purchase (my nephew wanted to avoid
the expensive full-insurance that goes with a car loan/lien). I happen to
know from my father in law that recently my brother in law borrowed $20,000
from HIS dad to play with a credit-card shuffle, to make a profit with that
money and then give the capital back to his dad.
Money is more important to him than anything.
He says he's poor when he's not.
He's an engineer for a government contractor, yet he won't even get himself
an apartment. He rents a room from an elderly person. He rented from a
woman for years, and her son just recently put her in a nursing home. He lived
in a camper trailer for a month, and has just moved into a rental room in the
home of a 78 year old man. He's retiring early, soon, and moving to stay with
his parents (my in-laws).
He would rather have a pile of money than a relationship with his own
children.
He has a pile of money. He says he's poor.
It's very sad to me that he doesn't relate with people as people, only as
numbers, as assets and liabilities.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> She gets 5 points for brushing her hair and 5 for brushing her teeth. (SheSo you charge her money to clean up after her?
> hates to do these things.) She gets 5 points for sweeping the kitchen each
> day. She can earn points by cleaning. She looses points if she leaves a mess
> behind her that I have to pick up.
>
Who will pay her to brush her hair when she's grown?
In an unschooling context that all sounds like a giant step in the wrong
direction to me. It's not relationship building.
I just talked to my husband's oldest brother, who is finally initiating a
divorce after being separated for eight or ten years. His interest in money
destroyed his family, destroyed his relationship with his sons (who are now 18
and 20), he refused to pay tuition to a college his son got into, he refused to
lend him $8000 as part of a $20,000 truck purchase (my nephew wanted to avoid
the expensive full-insurance that goes with a car loan/lien). I happen to
know from my father in law that recently my brother in law borrowed $20,000
from HIS dad to play with a credit-card shuffle, to make a profit with that
money and then give the capital back to his dad.
Money is more important to him than anything.
He says he's poor when he's not.
He's an engineer for a government contractor, yet he won't even get himself
an apartment. He rents a room from an elderly person. He rented from a
woman for years, and her son just recently put her in a nursing home. He lived
in a camper trailer for a month, and has just moved into a rental room in the
home of a 78 year old man. He's retiring early, soon, and moving to stay with
his parents (my in-laws).
He would rather have a pile of money than a relationship with his own
children.
He has a pile of money. He says he's poor.
It's very sad to me that he doesn't relate with people as people, only as
numbers, as assets and liabilities.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rue Kream
>>they were not enough to dissuade me from thinking chores are anatural part of one's daily functioning, and can enhance growth when doled
out
respectfully.
**There's an inherent lack of respect in doling them out at all - in the the
idea that adults have a right to tell kids what to do and make them do it.
Housework *can* be a natural part of a family's daily functioning, but I
don't see how it can be when the parents come up with artificial reasons for
their children to do it (do it and you'll get paid, do it and you won't get
punished, do it because I say so, do it and you'll earn a 'point') rather
than allowing the children to develop their own intrinsic reasons for doing
it.
>>the chores needed to be done by Friday night**Or what? You said your kids always did their chores, so maybe you never
had to figure out 'or what.' It's still there, though, an implied threat,
in the words 'the chores needed to be done by Friday night.' ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
arcarpenter2003
I just posted about chores on my Michigan Unschoolers list, a couple
of different times. I'll pass on what I said here, in case it helps
people think about it more.
****************
Post 1:
We don't have chores. Sometimes my kids get excited about helping
out, sometimes I ask for help (saying no is okay with me), sometimes
my husband and I do things ourselves and chat/play with the kids as we
do it, and sometimes one of us takes the kids out so the other can get
some housework done. It kind of depends on the feeling around here at
the moment, I suppose.
What I love about this is that when my son cleans, he is very proud of
what he's done, and it all comes from him. I love that the freedom we
have lets him take ownership of what he's done. I think he learns a
lot about how good it feels to make a room clean.
****************
Post 2, as I was trying to explain relationship and communication as
an important part of unschooling:
An "I message" really changes the tone of parent/child
interactions. "I am feeling so unhappy with how the living room
looks," or "I would love to see our sitting area cleaner so that we
could enjoy it while we watch Teen Titans together" instead of "Get up
and clean up this mess." When I voice what I am feeling or what I
want, I also own that the problem is mine. I may be the only one
seeing the mess at that moment.
When I voice this, sometimes my family is very willing to help me out
at that moment. Sometimes they reply with their own "I messages."
"I'm really involved in my game right now." "I'm very tired right
now." Because I've started with an "I message," I haven't set up a
power struggle situation. I've voiced a need, and my family has
voiced that they have needs of their own. We can problem-solve from
there. I might decide to let it go for now, especially if they're
willing to help me later. Or I might decide that I don't mind picking
things up myself -- that it's important to me to have a nice-looking
place when I want it. My family will then give me the space to do
that -- my husband might take our toddler upstairs with him while he
naps, or my older son will tell me when his show is on commercial so I
can run the vacuum without interrupting him.
The very cool benefit of this is that there are times when my older
son wants to do something nice for me, and he takes it upon himself to
clean something up. The last time he cleaned up his room and showed
me, he was so proud of himself, and I could just relax and applaud
him. That would have been much less likely to happen if I was nagging
him about cleaning it. It came completely from him.
My son *is* learning the skills he needs to help out around the house,
but he's learning lots of other stuff right now, too. Respecting his
learning means that he is free to say no when I ask for help. As it
turns out, if he isn't wrapped up in something else, he is often very
willing to help, especially if it means we get to hang out together
and chat.
I choose often to give my children and my husband the gift of a clean
house, a clean room, clean clothes, and a meal that I know they'll
really enjoy. When I don't feel like giving that gift -- when I feel
like giving the gift of my undivided attention, or when I want to give
myself some down time -- then I don't do those things right then.
When I need help, I ask for it. We work it out together.
******************
Peace,
Amy
of different times. I'll pass on what I said here, in case it helps
people think about it more.
****************
Post 1:
We don't have chores. Sometimes my kids get excited about helping
out, sometimes I ask for help (saying no is okay with me), sometimes
my husband and I do things ourselves and chat/play with the kids as we
do it, and sometimes one of us takes the kids out so the other can get
some housework done. It kind of depends on the feeling around here at
the moment, I suppose.
What I love about this is that when my son cleans, he is very proud of
what he's done, and it all comes from him. I love that the freedom we
have lets him take ownership of what he's done. I think he learns a
lot about how good it feels to make a room clean.
****************
Post 2, as I was trying to explain relationship and communication as
an important part of unschooling:
An "I message" really changes the tone of parent/child
interactions. "I am feeling so unhappy with how the living room
looks," or "I would love to see our sitting area cleaner so that we
could enjoy it while we watch Teen Titans together" instead of "Get up
and clean up this mess." When I voice what I am feeling or what I
want, I also own that the problem is mine. I may be the only one
seeing the mess at that moment.
When I voice this, sometimes my family is very willing to help me out
at that moment. Sometimes they reply with their own "I messages."
"I'm really involved in my game right now." "I'm very tired right
now." Because I've started with an "I message," I haven't set up a
power struggle situation. I've voiced a need, and my family has
voiced that they have needs of their own. We can problem-solve from
there. I might decide to let it go for now, especially if they're
willing to help me later. Or I might decide that I don't mind picking
things up myself -- that it's important to me to have a nice-looking
place when I want it. My family will then give me the space to do
that -- my husband might take our toddler upstairs with him while he
naps, or my older son will tell me when his show is on commercial so I
can run the vacuum without interrupting him.
The very cool benefit of this is that there are times when my older
son wants to do something nice for me, and he takes it upon himself to
clean something up. The last time he cleaned up his room and showed
me, he was so proud of himself, and I could just relax and applaud
him. That would have been much less likely to happen if I was nagging
him about cleaning it. It came completely from him.
My son *is* learning the skills he needs to help out around the house,
but he's learning lots of other stuff right now, too. Respecting his
learning means that he is free to say no when I ask for help. As it
turns out, if he isn't wrapped up in something else, he is often very
willing to help, especially if it means we get to hang out together
and chat.
I choose often to give my children and my husband the gift of a clean
house, a clean room, clean clothes, and a meal that I know they'll
really enjoy. When I don't feel like giving that gift -- when I feel
like giving the gift of my undivided attention, or when I want to give
myself some down time -- then I don't do those things right then.
When I need help, I ask for it. We work it out together.
******************
Peace,
Amy
J. Stauffer
We do have "chores" at our house but it isn't things being assigned from
parent to child but stuff we simply need to get done. We have meetings and
divvy stuff up, everyone contributes, everyone is respected.
What helped our family alot on this issue is studying consensus building and
how intentional communities have handled the issue of "stuff that just needs
to get done".
Julie S.
parent to child but stuff we simply need to get done. We have meetings and
divvy stuff up, everyone contributes, everyone is respected.
What helped our family alot on this issue is studying consensus building and
how intentional communities have handled the issue of "stuff that just needs
to get done".
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "arcarpenter2003" <arcarpenter@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 2:14 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Chores
>I just posted about chores on my Michigan Unschoolers list, a couple
> of different times. I'll pass on what I said here, in case it helps
> people think about it more.
>
> ****************
>
> Post 1:
>
> We don't have chores. Sometimes my kids get excited about helping
> out, sometimes I ask for help (saying no is okay with me), sometimes
> my husband and I do things ourselves and chat/play with the kids as we
> do it, and sometimes one of us takes the kids out so the other can get
> some housework done. It kind of depends on the feeling around here at
> the moment, I suppose.
>
> What I love about this is that when my son cleans, he is very proud of
> what he's done, and it all comes from him. I love that the freedom we
> have lets him take ownership of what he's done. I think he learns a
> lot about how good it feels to make a room clean.
>
> ****************
>
> Post 2, as I was trying to explain relationship and communication as
> an important part of unschooling:
>
> An "I message" really changes the tone of parent/child
> interactions. "I am feeling so unhappy with how the living room
> looks," or "I would love to see our sitting area cleaner so that we
> could enjoy it while we watch Teen Titans together" instead of "Get up
> and clean up this mess." When I voice what I am feeling or what I
> want, I also own that the problem is mine. I may be the only one
> seeing the mess at that moment.
>
> When I voice this, sometimes my family is very willing to help me out
> at that moment. Sometimes they reply with their own "I messages."
> "I'm really involved in my game right now." "I'm very tired right
> now." Because I've started with an "I message," I haven't set up a
> power struggle situation. I've voiced a need, and my family has
> voiced that they have needs of their own. We can problem-solve from
> there. I might decide to let it go for now, especially if they're
> willing to help me later. Or I might decide that I don't mind picking
> things up myself -- that it's important to me to have a nice-looking
> place when I want it. My family will then give me the space to do
> that -- my husband might take our toddler upstairs with him while he
> naps, or my older son will tell me when his show is on commercial so I
> can run the vacuum without interrupting him.
>
> The very cool benefit of this is that there are times when my older
> son wants to do something nice for me, and he takes it upon himself to
> clean something up. The last time he cleaned up his room and showed
> me, he was so proud of himself, and I could just relax and applaud
> him. That would have been much less likely to happen if I was nagging
> him about cleaning it. It came completely from him.
>
> My son *is* learning the skills he needs to help out around the house,
> but he's learning lots of other stuff right now, too. Respecting his
> learning means that he is free to say no when I ask for help. As it
> turns out, if he isn't wrapped up in something else, he is often very
> willing to help, especially if it means we get to hang out together
> and chat.
>
> I choose often to give my children and my husband the gift of a clean
> house, a clean room, clean clothes, and a meal that I know they'll
> really enjoy. When I don't feel like giving that gift -- when I feel
> like giving the gift of my undivided attention, or when I want to give
> myself some down time -- then I don't do those things right then.
> When I need help, I ask for it. We work it out together.
>
> ******************
>
> Peace,
> Amy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Robyn Coburn
<<<<doled out respectfully.>>>>
I consider this to be an oxymoron.
Robyn L. Coburn
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I consider this to be an oxymoron.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Rue Kream
>>She gets 5 points for brushing her hair and 5 for brushing her teeth. (Shehates to do these things.)
**A child may change her behavior in order to earn points from her
parent(s), but token systems don't address the child's needs, wants,
feelings, or inner motivations at all.
Why does she hate brushing her hair and teeth? Does it hurt? Would a comb
feel better than a brush? Does she have de-tangling spray? Would she
rather have shorter hair? Has she tried different toothpastes and brushes?
Does she want you to keep her company while she brushes? Does it interrupt
the flow of her day? Does she think it's unnecessary or could be done less
often? These are just a few of the many, many things that could be
discussed if the focus was on helping to make the child's life enjoyable
rather than on getting her to comply with the parent's wishes.
>>For me it costs less to pay her like this than it would cost to have asitter and she prefers to be with me.
**Do you think maybe she'd rather be with you even if you didn't pay her?
~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Roberta Romero
She hates to brush her hair because she gets tangles in it. She wants long hair. We have a brush and comb. She has me brush it sometimes. It is better if she brushes it once a day becuase there are fewer tangles. I don't "make" her brush it before we go out. I don't know why she doesn't like to brush her teeth but she has picked many different toothbrushes and toothpastes. I think it is normal for children to dislike brushing their teeth and hair. I was the same way. She has a super high sensual sensitivity. She only wears cotton knit clothes. All these things we work on together. Some things like brushing your teeth are necessary.
She prefers to be with me. It doesn't hurt to offer her part of what I am earning. I think it gives her some ownership over what I'm doing. When we work the B&Bs she sets tables and works with me in the kitchen asking me frequently, "Can I do that?" or "What can I do?" When I do computer work it's pretty boring for her. Today, for example I'm working an hour then spending time reading or playing with her, then working an hour. Believe it or not, she and I are very happy and loving.
I need to get back to work now.
R
Rue Kream <skreams@...> wrote:
**A child may change her behavior in order to earn points from her
parent(s), but token systems don't address the child's needs, wants,
feelings, or inner motivations at all.
Why does she hate brushing her hair and teeth? Does it hurt? Would a comb
feel better than a brush? Does she have de-tangling spray? Would she
rather have shorter hair? Has she tried different toothpastes and brushes?
Does she want you to keep her company while she brushes? Does it interrupt
the flow of her day? Does she think it's unnecessary or could be done less
often? These are just a few of the many, many things that could be
discussed if the focus was on helping to make the child's life enjoyable
rather than on getting her to comply with the parent's wishes.
**Do you think maybe she'd rather be with you even if you didn't pay her?
~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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She prefers to be with me. It doesn't hurt to offer her part of what I am earning. I think it gives her some ownership over what I'm doing. When we work the B&Bs she sets tables and works with me in the kitchen asking me frequently, "Can I do that?" or "What can I do?" When I do computer work it's pretty boring for her. Today, for example I'm working an hour then spending time reading or playing with her, then working an hour. Believe it or not, she and I are very happy and loving.
I need to get back to work now.
R
Rue Kream <skreams@...> wrote:
>>She gets 5 points for brushing her hair and 5 for brushing her teeth. (Shehates to do these things.)
**A child may change her behavior in order to earn points from her
parent(s), but token systems don't address the child's needs, wants,
feelings, or inner motivations at all.
Why does she hate brushing her hair and teeth? Does it hurt? Would a comb
feel better than a brush? Does she have de-tangling spray? Would she
rather have shorter hair? Has she tried different toothpastes and brushes?
Does she want you to keep her company while she brushes? Does it interrupt
the flow of her day? Does she think it's unnecessary or could be done less
often? These are just a few of the many, many things that could be
discussed if the focus was on helping to make the child's life enjoyable
rather than on getting her to comply with the parent's wishes.
>>For me it costs less to pay her like this than it would cost to have asitter and she prefers to be with me.
**Do you think maybe she'd rather be with you even if you didn't pay her?
~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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nellebelle
>>>>>>>>>She wants long hair. We have a brush and comb. She has me brush it sometimes. It is better if she brushes it once a day becuase there are fewer tangles.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My dd had very long hair for years. Even though she was the one who wanted long hair, it was really too long for her to take care of herself. It did not always get brushed every day. Sometimes we would sit down with a movie or TV show and I would very carefully work the tangles out for her. We also found it easier to brush if she washed it using LOTS of conditioner, then let it dry before brushing. Her hair is straight and fine.
I also would like to say this about chores. I did a lot of the housework as a child. My memory is that I *had to*. My mom says that I did it because I wanted to. Funny we both have a different memory of that!
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Roberta Romero
I like your idea of doing it while we're watching a movie.
nellebelle <nellebelle@...> wrote:>>>>>>>>>She wants long hair. We have a brush and comb. She has me brush it sometimes. It is better if she brushes it once a day becuase there are fewer tangles.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My dd had very long hair for years. Even though she was the one who wanted long hair, it was really too long for her to take care of herself. It did not always get brushed every day. Sometimes we would sit down with a movie or TV show and I would very carefully work the tangles out for her. We also found it easier to brush if she washed it using LOTS of conditioner, then let it dry before brushing. Her hair is straight and fine.
I also would like to say this about chores. I did a lot of the housework as a child. My memory is that I *had to*. My mom says that I did it because I wanted to. Funny we both have a different memory of that!
Mary Ellen
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nellebelle <nellebelle@...> wrote:>>>>>>>>>She wants long hair. We have a brush and comb. She has me brush it sometimes. It is better if she brushes it once a day becuase there are fewer tangles.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My dd had very long hair for years. Even though she was the one who wanted long hair, it was really too long for her to take care of herself. It did not always get brushed every day. Sometimes we would sit down with a movie or TV show and I would very carefully work the tangles out for her. We also found it easier to brush if she washed it using LOTS of conditioner, then let it dry before brushing. Her hair is straight and fine.
I also would like to say this about chores. I did a lot of the housework as a child. My memory is that I *had to*. My mom says that I did it because I wanted to. Funny we both have a different memory of that!
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Regina Stevenson-Healy
My daughter has long hair that is prone to tangles. I recently bought a
battery operated detangling comb which actually works very well. It
cost $17, but I am so happy to have found something that works.
Regina
battery operated detangling comb which actually works very well. It
cost $17, but I am so happy to have found something that works.
Regina
On Monday, July 25, 2005, at 03:04 PM, Roberta Romero wrote:
> She hates to brush her hair because she gets tangles in it. She wants
> long hair. We have a brush and comb. She has me brush it sometimes. It
> is better if she brushes it once a day becuase there are fewer > tangles.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rue Kream
>>It is better if she brushes it once a day becuase there are fewer tangles.**Rowan has long, fine, thick hair. A few things that have helped with
tangles are not rinsing the conditioner completely out when she washes her
hair, spray on conditioner before combing, and leaving it in a braid - even
while sleeping. Rowan likes to watch TV or play on the computer while I
comb her hair. That way she doesn't get bored and she doesn't 'feel' it as
much (she's extremely sensitive to touch - sounds similar to your daughter).
>>Believe it or not, she and I are very happy and loving.**That's great :o). I wasn't questioning that. Just the idea that token
systems are beneficial or necessary. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandrewmama
Zoe has medium length, fine, thick and slightly wavy underneath,
hair. She needs it pulled back for swimming and gymnastics. I've
found that I can easily pull a pigtail holder out, re-gather the
loose strands of hair with my hands, using no combs or brushes, and
re-tie the pigtail. This has made spiffying up before heading out
painless and it gets the loose hairs that were hanging in her face,
back in control.
Chris
hair. She needs it pulled back for swimming and gymnastics. I've
found that I can easily pull a pigtail holder out, re-gather the
loose strands of hair with my hands, using no combs or brushes, and
re-tie the pigtail. This has made spiffying up before heading out
painless and it gets the loose hairs that were hanging in her face,
back in control.
Chris
On Jul 26, 2005, at 10:11 AM, Rue Kream wrote:
> **Rowan has long, fine, thick hair. A few things that have helped
> with
> tangles are not rinsing the conditioner completely out when she
> washes her
> hair, spray on conditioner before combing, and leaving it in a
> braid - even
> while sleeping. Rowan likes to watch TV or play on the computer
> while I
> comb her hair. That way she doesn't get bored and she doesn't
> 'feel' it as
> much (she's extremely sensitive to touch - sounds similar to your
> daughter).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tracey Inman
>>Does she want you to keep her company while she brushes? Does itinterrupt
the flow of her day? Does she think it's unnecessary or could be done less
often?<<
I find all of these true for my youngest dd. I finally realized (I am a
little slow sometimes) that if I brushed her teeth for her there wasn't a
struggle to get it done. She is 9yo almost 10 but if it works then so what?
My dd doesn't like for her flow to be messed with at all. I have really had
to work at respecting her and her time. For the most part she could care
less if she ever took a bath or got out of her pj's. Most days it doesn't
matter except when she wants to play outside (or if we need to go somewhere)
. It just doesn't seem like a good idea to be outside in pj's that show
too much of her body parts that don't need showing! The bath I do insist on
but we have gotten better about there not being conflict surrounding the
issue.
As for paying them for extras around the house......I did that because they
asked for ways they could earn additional income. I think there is
something about earning versus just giving it to them. I already give them
an allowance and they don't have to do anything to receive this allowance.
If they don't do the extras I don't say anything to them about not doing
them.
~Tracey Inman
jfetteroll
**Julia and I use a point system. She gets 5 points for brushing
her hair and 5 for brushing her teeth. (She hates to do these
things.) She gets 5 points for sweeping the kitchen each day.
She can earn points by cleaning. She looses points if she leaves
a mess behind her that I have to pick up.**
Imagine a husband who decided to share what he earned by
giving his wife 10 points for each meal she cooked, 25 points for
each room that was spotless and took away 10 points if a child
was crying when he walked in the door, took away 5 points for
each thing he had to put away himself.
Do you think he should write a book on how to build a great
husband and wife relationship? It sounds more like a recipe for
"How to get your wife to do what you want her to do." (And it
actually might work for a woman who was raised so poorly that
that seems like good treatment!)
There is something else that has fostered a good relationship
with your daughter and I think it's working *in spite of* the
points.
I think it's something that you aren't even aware of in how
you
talk to her, how you interact with her, how you treat her.
**It doesn't hurt to offer her part of what I am earning. I think it
gives her some ownership over what I'm doing. When we work
the B&Bs she sets tables and works with me in the kitchen
asking me frequently, "Can I do that?" or "What can I do?"**
The system you've described with the points doesn't lead to
kids
who happily help. If other parents tried what you've described
they won't get the results you have.
Either
1) there is something in your interaction with you daughter (how
you talk to her, how you problem solve with her) that makes her
feel like part of the team working towards a mutual goal, or
2) her personality dictates that she'd be that way unless your
interaction with her were very crushing.
Unless you understand what has created a good relationship
with your daughter and why it works and how it can work for
others it won't help others build good relationships.
For most parents parenting is a crap shoot. They hear about
something that sounds good and they try it out to see if it will
work with their family.
Most homeschooling lists work that way, people trade ideas that
work for them and others try them out.
This list works differently. First this list isn't focused on
smooth,
efficient running families. It's about building good
relationships
with our kids. That's the primary goal and everything else is
secondary. Second it's figuring out *why* something builds good
relationships with kids and articulating it in a way that others can
figure out how to make it work in their own families.
I think many people imaging life with kids will be like you
describe with the kids naturally understanding how important the
adult's work/ideas are and the kids pitching in to help.
But reality is different! ;-) An artistic free-spirited child
isn't going
to "just understand" a parent whose high priority is a neat
and
orderly home.
In order for a person to put aside their own immediate wants to
help someone else out they need to feel that their wants and
needs are important to others. If someone feels they need to
fight to get their wants and needs met they are unlikely to put
aside the fight to help someone else.
If your daughter feels her wants and needs are just as valuable
to you as yours are, its because of something else you've done,
not because you've handed out points. It's something else,
something in your interaction with her that you're taking for
granted that's working.
Joyce
her hair and 5 for brushing her teeth. (She hates to do these
things.) She gets 5 points for sweeping the kitchen each day.
She can earn points by cleaning. She looses points if she leaves
a mess behind her that I have to pick up.**
Imagine a husband who decided to share what he earned by
giving his wife 10 points for each meal she cooked, 25 points for
each room that was spotless and took away 10 points if a child
was crying when he walked in the door, took away 5 points for
each thing he had to put away himself.
Do you think he should write a book on how to build a great
husband and wife relationship? It sounds more like a recipe for
"How to get your wife to do what you want her to do." (And it
actually might work for a woman who was raised so poorly that
that seems like good treatment!)
There is something else that has fostered a good relationship
with your daughter and I think it's working *in spite of* the
points.
I think it's something that you aren't even aware of in how
you
talk to her, how you interact with her, how you treat her.
**It doesn't hurt to offer her part of what I am earning. I think it
gives her some ownership over what I'm doing. When we work
the B&Bs she sets tables and works with me in the kitchen
asking me frequently, "Can I do that?" or "What can I do?"**
The system you've described with the points doesn't lead to
kids
who happily help. If other parents tried what you've described
they won't get the results you have.
Either
1) there is something in your interaction with you daughter (how
you talk to her, how you problem solve with her) that makes her
feel like part of the team working towards a mutual goal, or
2) her personality dictates that she'd be that way unless your
interaction with her were very crushing.
Unless you understand what has created a good relationship
with your daughter and why it works and how it can work for
others it won't help others build good relationships.
For most parents parenting is a crap shoot. They hear about
something that sounds good and they try it out to see if it will
work with their family.
Most homeschooling lists work that way, people trade ideas that
work for them and others try them out.
This list works differently. First this list isn't focused on
smooth,
efficient running families. It's about building good
relationships
with our kids. That's the primary goal and everything else is
secondary. Second it's figuring out *why* something builds good
relationships with kids and articulating it in a way that others can
figure out how to make it work in their own families.
I think many people imaging life with kids will be like you
describe with the kids naturally understanding how important the
adult's work/ideas are and the kids pitching in to help.
But reality is different! ;-) An artistic free-spirited child
isn't going
to "just understand" a parent whose high priority is a neat
and
orderly home.
In order for a person to put aside their own immediate wants to
help someone else out they need to feel that their wants and
needs are important to others. If someone feels they need to
fight to get their wants and needs met they are unlikely to put
aside the fight to help someone else.
If your daughter feels her wants and needs are just as valuable
to you as yours are, its because of something else you've done,
not because you've handed out points. It's something else,
something in your interaction with her that you're taking for
granted that's working.
Joyce
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: jfetteroll <fetteroll@...>
For most parents parenting is a crap shoot. They hear about
something that sounds good and they try it out to see if it will
work with their family.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Yeah---I was at my parents' house over the weekend. My mother handed me
a newspaper article she'd saved by John (ugh!) Rosemond. I said that I
didn't want to read anything by that idiot--that he hates children.
She said, "Oh, no he doesn't! Look, he says that right here!" And
points to the article. It was an answer to a comment he'd
received---which one of *you* wrote in??? <BWG>---the question was: "It
seems that you hate children."
Well, then I *had* to read it! <G>
Seems that he likes children who obey, who don't ask questions, who are
well-mannered, who go to bed on time, who do their homework without
being asked, who do household chores, and who are seen and not
heard....among other things.
He hates the rest.
Well, well,.....
My mother assumed that since my children do most of these things (well,
no homework), that I *must* be following Rosemond's advice.
I assured her that I would no sooner do *anything* Rosemond suggested
as I would cut my kids' heads off. AND that my children are so
wonderful *because* I avoid anything that even resembles a Rosemond's
suggestion.
UGH!
~Kelly
From: jfetteroll <fetteroll@...>
For most parents parenting is a crap shoot. They hear about
something that sounds good and they try it out to see if it will
work with their family.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Yeah---I was at my parents' house over the weekend. My mother handed me
a newspaper article she'd saved by John (ugh!) Rosemond. I said that I
didn't want to read anything by that idiot--that he hates children.
She said, "Oh, no he doesn't! Look, he says that right here!" And
points to the article. It was an answer to a comment he'd
received---which one of *you* wrote in??? <BWG>---the question was: "It
seems that you hate children."
Well, then I *had* to read it! <G>
Seems that he likes children who obey, who don't ask questions, who are
well-mannered, who go to bed on time, who do their homework without
being asked, who do household chores, and who are seen and not
heard....among other things.
He hates the rest.
Well, well,.....
My mother assumed that since my children do most of these things (well,
no homework), that I *must* be following Rosemond's advice.
I assured her that I would no sooner do *anything* Rosemond suggested
as I would cut my kids' heads off. AND that my children are so
wonderful *because* I avoid anything that even resembles a Rosemond's
suggestion.
UGH!
~Kelly
katherand2003
This hit me when I read it because there is someone dear to me who's been in danger
of doing this same thing. This is the same thing we might all do to alienate ourselves
from others but to an extreme degree, isn't it? A focus on anger rather than on
needs.... Anger due to the wrongheaded idea that those who need money don't
deserve it from one who has worked so "hard" and "sacrificially" for it him/herself. In
other words, it's denial of one's OWN needs (for close relationships, love, happiness
at being there for others) as well as the self-induced deafness to other's needs,
which again is really just another of one's own needs (ie. hearing the needs of others).
[Thinking on Rosenberg's Non Violent Communication lately.] It might be if people
can't get inside this circular idea of love or wrap their heads around it long enough to
try it out and see, then they're stuck alone. Bummer. Sorry to hear about the brother
in law, and his family. That hurts.
Kathe
of doing this same thing. This is the same thing we might all do to alienate ourselves
from others but to an extreme degree, isn't it? A focus on anger rather than on
needs.... Anger due to the wrongheaded idea that those who need money don't
deserve it from one who has worked so "hard" and "sacrificially" for it him/herself. In
other words, it's denial of one's OWN needs (for close relationships, love, happiness
at being there for others) as well as the self-induced deafness to other's needs,
which again is really just another of one's own needs (ie. hearing the needs of others).
[Thinking on Rosenberg's Non Violent Communication lately.] It might be if people
can't get inside this circular idea of love or wrap their heads around it long enough to
try it out and see, then they're stuck alone. Bummer. Sorry to hear about the brother
in law, and his family. That hurts.
Kathe
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/24/05 8:49:56 AM, lagobonita@y... writes:
>
>
> > She gets 5 points for brushing her hair and 5 for brushing her teeth. (She
> > hates to do these things.) She gets 5 points for sweeping the kitchen each
> > day. She can earn points by cleaning. She looses points if she leaves a mess
> > behind her that I have to pick up.
> >
>
> So you charge her money to clean up after her?
>
> Who will pay her to brush her hair when she's grown?
>
> In an unschooling context that all sounds like a giant step in the wrong
> direction to me. It's not relationship building.
>
> I just talked to my husband's oldest brother, who is finally initiating a
> divorce after being separated for eight or ten years. His interest in money
> destroyed his family, destroyed his relationship with his sons (who are now 18
> and 20), he refused to pay tuition to a college his son got into, he refused to
> lend him $8000 as part of a $20,000 truck purchase (my nephew wanted to avoid
> the expensive full-insurance that goes with a car loan/lien). I happen to
> know from my father in law that recently my brother in law borrowed $20,000
> from HIS dad to play with a credit-card shuffle, to make a profit with that
> money and then give the capital back to his dad.
>
> Money is more important to him than anything.
> He says he's poor when he's not.
> He's an engineer for a government contractor, yet he won't even get himself
> an apartment. He rents a room from an elderly person. He rented from a
> woman for years, and her son just recently put her in a nursing home. He lived
> in a camper trailer for a month, and has just moved into a rental room in the
> home of a 78 year old man. He's retiring early, soon, and moving to stay with
> his parents (my in-laws).
>
> He would rather have a pile of money than a relationship with his own
> children.
> He has a pile of money. He says he's poor.
>
> It's very sad to me that he doesn't relate with people as people, only as
> numbers, as assets and liabilities.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** Seems that he likes children who obey, who don't ask questions, who are
well-mannered, who go to bed on time, who do their homework without
being asked, who do household chores, and who are seen and not
heard....among other things.**
The Alfie Kohn book, Unconditional Parenting, is a nice rebuttal to that
kind of thinking. (If anyone wants to give Rosemond-quoting relatives
some "homework" to do.)
Betsy
well-mannered, who go to bed on time, who do their homework without
being asked, who do household chores, and who are seen and not
heard....among other things.**
The Alfie Kohn book, Unconditional Parenting, is a nice rebuttal to that
kind of thinking. (If anyone wants to give Rosemond-quoting relatives
some "homework" to do.)
Betsy
Lou
That is the way I have been doing it (listening and trading ideas)
regarding chores except not using lists but my friends.
Yesterday I compiled a dishes and laundry rota. The kids are really
happy about it (it starts today) but I don't think I am. I wanted
help with this so I can be more free during the day to BE with the
kids and do stuff with them rather than spending 3 hours daily on
housework. I wish I could just get rid of the rota but the old way
meant I was doing everything and feeling exhausted. If there is
another way I'd love to hear people's experiences about it. I have
read the chores page (Sandra's) but couldn't find anyone who didn't
have a partner helping out or 4 young kids on thier own (as I am).
I love that this list is different from those other home-
school/parenting ones and am ready to learn from it.
Louise xxx
regarding chores except not using lists but my friends.
Yesterday I compiled a dishes and laundry rota. The kids are really
happy about it (it starts today) but I don't think I am. I wanted
help with this so I can be more free during the day to BE with the
kids and do stuff with them rather than spending 3 hours daily on
housework. I wish I could just get rid of the rota but the old way
meant I was doing everything and feeling exhausted. If there is
another way I'd love to hear people's experiences about it. I have
read the chores page (Sandra's) but couldn't find anyone who didn't
have a partner helping out or 4 young kids on thier own (as I am).
I love that this list is different from those other home-
school/parenting ones and am ready to learn from it.
Louise xxx
>can
> Most homeschooling lists work that way, people trade ideas that
> work for them and others try them out.
>
> This list works differently. First this list isn't focused on
> smooth,
> efficient running families. It's about building good
> relationships
> with our kids. That's the primary goal and everything else is
> secondary. Second it's figuring out *why* something builds good
> relationships with kids and articulating it in a way that others
> figure out how to make it work in their own families.
>
> >
> > Joyce
Pam Sorooshian
On Jul 30, 2005, at 3:05 AM, Lou wrote:
What does a dishes and laundry "rota" look like?
-pam
> Yesterday I compiled a dishes and laundry rota.What is a "rota?"
What does a dishes and laundry "rota" look like?
-pam
Lou
A rota is a chart with certain people's names down for a set task. Eg.
Me for breakfast dishes, my daughter for lunch ones etc.
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@e...>
wrote:
Me for breakfast dishes, my daughter for lunch ones etc.
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@e...>
wrote:
>
> On Jul 30, 2005, at 3:05 AM, Lou wrote:
>
> > Yesterday I compiled a dishes and laundry rota.
>
> What is a "rota?"
>
> What does a dishes and laundry "rota" look like?
>
> -pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/8/05 2:59:49 AM, lssttn@... writes:
"rotation," I'm guessing, but when/where?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> A rota is a chart with certain people's names down for a set task. Eg."Chore chart"--but where did the term "rota" come from? Short for
> Me for breakfast dishes, my daughter for lunch ones etc.
>
"rotation," I'm guessing, but when/where?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/8/2005 3:59:48 AM Central Standard Time, lssttn@...
writes:
A rota is a chart with certain people's names down for a set task. Eg.
Me for breakfast dishes, my daughter for lunch ones etc.
~~~
a rotation.
Karen
www.badchair.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
A rota is a chart with certain people's names down for a set task. Eg.
Me for breakfast dishes, my daughter for lunch ones etc.
~~~
a rotation.
Karen
www.badchair.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
I think it is British (or Australian).
Betsy
** "Chore chart"--but where did the term "rota" come from? Short for
"rotation," I'm guessing, but when/where? **
Betsy
** "Chore chart"--but where did the term "rota" come from? Short for
"rotation," I'm guessing, but when/where? **
S.Waynforth
Here is on of the explanations of a rota from nationmaster.com :
The rota was a cylinder, open on one side, that was built inside a
wall of a monastery; it was used for exchanging mail and food with
cloistered clergy, being their only communication with the world. It
was usually about 50 centimeters wide by 30 centimeters high, and its
opening did not permit visual or tactile contact with the
uncloistered. Messages or food were put into the cylinder, then the
rota was revolved so that the opening faced the other side. Monks were
stationed close by or were notified that someone had turned the wheel
by various mechanisms. In some cases, especially at night and in
winter, the rota was filled by the monks with food, and left there for
the poor, to give them something to eat without them having to ask.
The rota was also used by those mothers who didn't want to (or
couldn't) keep their (often illegitimate) newborn babies. They left
them in the safe hands of monks or nuns, their anonymity being
guaranteed by the rota. In some dioceses the instrument was abolished
to discourage this latter use.
see http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Rota for more
descriptions of rota.
Apparently rota is latin for wheel. But I liked the examples given.
Schuyler
The rota was a cylinder, open on one side, that was built inside a
wall of a monastery; it was used for exchanging mail and food with
cloistered clergy, being their only communication with the world. It
was usually about 50 centimeters wide by 30 centimeters high, and its
opening did not permit visual or tactile contact with the
uncloistered. Messages or food were put into the cylinder, then the
rota was revolved so that the opening faced the other side. Monks were
stationed close by or were notified that someone had turned the wheel
by various mechanisms. In some cases, especially at night and in
winter, the rota was filled by the monks with food, and left there for
the poor, to give them something to eat without them having to ask.
The rota was also used by those mothers who didn't want to (or
couldn't) keep their (often illegitimate) newborn babies. They left
them in the safe hands of monks or nuns, their anonymity being
guaranteed by the rota. In some dioceses the instrument was abolished
to discourage this latter use.
see http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Rota for more
descriptions of rota.
Apparently rota is latin for wheel. But I liked the examples given.
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], Betsy Hill <ecsamhill@s...> wrote:
>
> I think it is British (or Australian).
>
> Betsy
>
> ** "Chore chart"--but where did the term "rota" come from? Short for
> "rotation," I'm guessing, but when/where? **