chores (was "Overwhelmed Already")
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/19/05 4:03:28 AM, lagobonita@... writes:
what?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I include her in the every day chores rather than think of her as aI'm interested in this. Could you rephrase, plase? "Include" meaning
> separate class of person because she is a kid.
>
what?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Roberta Romero
My daughter chops vegetables, slices fruit, pours hot water. She goes to the store alone and is sure to have the right change. She has household responsibilities like sweeping daily and she knows I don't expect to remind her of them. When I was a child I had chores on Saturdays but my mom prepared the meals and I was either at school or extra curricular activities. Julia joins in with me. She does what many would consider adult-chores. My oldest sister was appauled when Julia brought me a cup of hot coffee once. She said Julia could get burned. I said, "Yes, she could. Then she'll learn to carry it more carefully." My sister was still upset. She told me something interesting though: her 14 year old son is not allowed to use farm machinery although his dad was able to run the equipment at a much younger age. She did not want Ben (my nephew) to get hurt.
In my opinion, In the U.S. kids are preserved as some other class of people well into their late teens and even 20s. When I graduated from college I remember feeling terrified at the thought of caring for myself 100%. I had been "protected" from life all my life.
This makes me think of another thing. (Sorry for rambling...) My mom never told me anything about sex or the changes my body was going through. When my first period finally arrived, I thought I was dying of cancer. I learned everything about this topic the hard way and often incorrectly.
I was raised as a pastor's kid so we were very protected. We were also expected to believe as my parent's believed. I am now an atheist / agnostic, but my daughter is free to believe as she chooses. We talk about religion and spiritual matters whenever and wherever. She has her own ideas and expresses them without fear of being shut down by me. That is because I don't see her as a lower class simply because she is younger. I believe she is just as intelligent as I am (if not more) - the only difference is that I have more experience and can help her out by sharing it.
I don't think this was a very clear answer. I just wrote stream of consciousness, but that is all I have time for now. I can't wait to meet you, Sandra, at the conference. We are so excited about going.
Roberta
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 7/19/05 4:03:28 AM, lagobonita@... writes:
what?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In my opinion, In the U.S. kids are preserved as some other class of people well into their late teens and even 20s. When I graduated from college I remember feeling terrified at the thought of caring for myself 100%. I had been "protected" from life all my life.
This makes me think of another thing. (Sorry for rambling...) My mom never told me anything about sex or the changes my body was going through. When my first period finally arrived, I thought I was dying of cancer. I learned everything about this topic the hard way and often incorrectly.
I was raised as a pastor's kid so we were very protected. We were also expected to believe as my parent's believed. I am now an atheist / agnostic, but my daughter is free to believe as she chooses. We talk about religion and spiritual matters whenever and wherever. She has her own ideas and expresses them without fear of being shut down by me. That is because I don't see her as a lower class simply because she is younger. I believe she is just as intelligent as I am (if not more) - the only difference is that I have more experience and can help her out by sharing it.
I don't think this was a very clear answer. I just wrote stream of consciousness, but that is all I have time for now. I can't wait to meet you, Sandra, at the conference. We are so excited about going.
Roberta
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 7/19/05 4:03:28 AM, lagobonita@... writes:
> I include her in the every day chores rather than think of her as aI'm interested in this. Could you rephrase, plase? "Include" meaning
> separate class of person because she is a kid.
>
what?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SPONSORED LINKS
Unschooling Attachment parenting John holt Parenting magazine Single parenting
---------------------------------
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Visit your group "AlwaysLearning" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/19/05 2:30:06 PM, lagobonita@... writes:
What class of people are you putting your daughter in if she has to do things
because you tell her to? What other adults around you are to carry your
coffee, and if they get burned that will teach them to be more careful?
You said your daughter chops vegetables, slices fruit...
She chooses to, or you tell her to?
That was my question.
-=- She has her own ideas and expresses them without fear of being shut down
by me. That is because I don't see her as a lower class simply because she is
younger.-=-
What if she had the idea that she didn't want the responsibility of sweeping
the floor? Would you discuss it with her?
Some people talk about children as though they're equal partners in the home.
Maybe in the case of a single parent and single child living together
that's as true as it's going to get. But there are still questions.
If the principles that apply to other learning apply to all situations, then
making a child sweep or deliver coffee might run counter to them growing up to
WANT to sweep and bring coffee.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> In my opinion, In the U.S. kids are preserved as some other class of peopleI think you're setting that up as a distraction from the real question.
> well into their late teens and even 20s.
>
What class of people are you putting your daughter in if she has to do things
because you tell her to? What other adults around you are to carry your
coffee, and if they get burned that will teach them to be more careful?
You said your daughter chops vegetables, slices fruit...
She chooses to, or you tell her to?
That was my question.
-=- She has her own ideas and expresses them without fear of being shut down
by me. That is because I don't see her as a lower class simply because she is
younger.-=-
What if she had the idea that she didn't want the responsibility of sweeping
the floor? Would you discuss it with her?
Some people talk about children as though they're equal partners in the home.
Maybe in the case of a single parent and single child living together
that's as true as it's going to get. But there are still questions.
If the principles that apply to other learning apply to all situations, then
making a child sweep or deliver coffee might run counter to them growing up to
WANT to sweep and bring coffee.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Roberta Romero
Sandra,
I was excited to find this forum and the Live and Learn conference because I hoped to connect with people who would just let me be me. After my first post, I feel like I am to be on the defensive and that is disappointing and confusing. I believe that unschooling is all about the freedom to be ourselves without the constraits of a prescribed idealogy and pedagogy.
I have debated with myself whether or not to answer your questions, because I don't want to sound defensive. I would hope we could each have our own styles and learn from each other - taking what works for us and leaving the rest.
My responses are in green below.
What class of people are you putting your daughter in if she has to do things
because you tell her to? My daughter brought me coffee because she wanted to. I cook, clean, do laundry, work, etc. and she was only being considerate. I think that in all loving relationships it is not only normal, but beautiful to serve each other sometimes. I don't mind bringing a man a cup of coffee either, but I also appreciate when a man brings one to me. It is a form of showing love. What other adults around you are to carry your coffee, and if they get burned that will teach them to be more careful? The ones that wish to be considerate and offer me a cup when I visit or am working for them. Happens to me all the time. Also, not a day goes by that I don't bring her a glass of milk, a cup of tea, 2-3 meals, etc.
You said your daughter chops vegetables, slices fruit...
She chooses to, or you tell her to? Not that it is your business, but she chooses to. She would have other kitchen duties if not that. Many meals I prepare on my own, but she does help me quite often. We live in the same apartment and as such are a team. I am not her slave/servant nor is she mine. I read her your e-mail and she laughed saying, "Sometimes I feel like your servant, but mostly I feel like you're my servant." Also, cooking, gardening, and pc work are my three main passions. I'm good at them and I am passing my skills on to my daughter because that is what I know. She is not as interested in gardening, but she is very proud when she can say she prepared the apple crisp or she made the frijoles. Through cooking I teach her her heritage - both sides.
That was my question. I'm glad you state this here because I don't know why you ask me this question. I don't understand what you are driving at. Surely there are some things we can learn about how to do chores, but basically they are just something that need to be done and if not we don't eat, have clean clothes, or a clean home. Unless we have a servant, who will do those things? They are not the same to me as reading and learning skills that follow our passions. I wish I never had to clean my apartment again, but that wish won't come true unless I want cockroaches to invade and never leave. However, I agree with the idea of choosing when it comes to what you want to study - hence we are unschooling. I have read to Julia since she was born. Literally. We drove down to Mexico with a pickup full of my pots and pans and our books. Those were the important things to us. When we began reading chapter books, I read to Julia. I wanted her to read to herself, but I figured that would come
when she was ready. Then she chose a series of books I loathed, but I continued to read them to her. She started to read to herself between our morning and evening sessions. Now she enjoys reading to herself each day for long periods, but we still have at least one hour long session in which I read to her. It's tradition and it helped her become and independent reader, I believe. She wants to be a film director and script writer. We are quite poor, but I said she could have a yard sale. We even sold her bunk beds. The proceeds for all are going toward her first video camera. That is her passion. That door is open to her. She is also saving her money and I am contributing to the collection.
Yes, we are different from your family. It is just the two of us. If I am to spend time with Julia doing the fun things then she has to help me with my work and chores. One of my jobs is as a replacement cook and bed and breakfasts. We have to be on the street by 6:00 a.m. and go up the hill with all the servants to the gringo mansions. We work in the kitchen, Julia helps set table and serve. She also :) makes the coffee (as she chooses to). For this we make about $40 a week. Afterwards we go down town to my consulting jobs where I help people with their pc software problems. She hates this, I can't afford for someone to watch her. She says she would rather be with me than with a sitter or in a "day care".
-=- She has her own ideas and expresses them without fear of being shut down
by me. That is because I don't see her as a lower class simply because she is
younger.-=-
What if she had the idea that she didn't want the responsibility of sweeping
the floor? Would you discuss it with her? What if I had the idea I was tired of keeping house and being a mom. Should I discuss it with her? She knows that part of being a family means having responsibilities. To me, that is important. She feels a real sense of value in our home because of what she contributes.
Some people talk about children as though they're equal partners in the home.
Maybe in the case of a single parent and single child living together
that's as true as it's going to get. But there are still questions. I don't know what you are talking about here. Do you believe children are equal or they aren't? I feel you are saying that whatever you do believe that I feel the opposite and thus am wrong. I really don't like extremes, Sandra. I think there are gray shades in between. Nothing is all good or all bad.
If the principles that apply to other learning apply to all situations, then
making a child sweep or deliver coffee might run counter to them growing up to
WANT to sweep and bring coffee. I think I already answered this. I don't see responsibilities / chores as the same thing as learning per se. I would never ever have time to look at a book myself if she didn't help me out at all. As it is, I have precious little time to myself. I'm not complaining. The exchange is worth it. I don't want to walk up the hill so early to be a servant to rich people, but I do take pride in the work I do and I am super satisfied when they tell me my food was delicious. I want my daughter to learn the pride there is in a job well done... even a job she doesn't necessarily want to do.
I said I look forward to meeting you and I do. Hopefully we can laugh together as we share ideas.
Roberta Romero
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was excited to find this forum and the Live and Learn conference because I hoped to connect with people who would just let me be me. After my first post, I feel like I am to be on the defensive and that is disappointing and confusing. I believe that unschooling is all about the freedom to be ourselves without the constraits of a prescribed idealogy and pedagogy.
I have debated with myself whether or not to answer your questions, because I don't want to sound defensive. I would hope we could each have our own styles and learn from each other - taking what works for us and leaving the rest.
My responses are in green below.
> In my opinion, In the U.S. kids are preserved as some other class of peopleI think you're setting that up as a distraction from the real question. I wasn't attempting to distract anyone from anything. I was stating my opinion. I am sorry if I offended anyone. Really.
> well into their late teens and even 20s.
>
What class of people are you putting your daughter in if she has to do things
because you tell her to? My daughter brought me coffee because she wanted to. I cook, clean, do laundry, work, etc. and she was only being considerate. I think that in all loving relationships it is not only normal, but beautiful to serve each other sometimes. I don't mind bringing a man a cup of coffee either, but I also appreciate when a man brings one to me. It is a form of showing love. What other adults around you are to carry your coffee, and if they get burned that will teach them to be more careful? The ones that wish to be considerate and offer me a cup when I visit or am working for them. Happens to me all the time. Also, not a day goes by that I don't bring her a glass of milk, a cup of tea, 2-3 meals, etc.
You said your daughter chops vegetables, slices fruit...
She chooses to, or you tell her to? Not that it is your business, but she chooses to. She would have other kitchen duties if not that. Many meals I prepare on my own, but she does help me quite often. We live in the same apartment and as such are a team. I am not her slave/servant nor is she mine. I read her your e-mail and she laughed saying, "Sometimes I feel like your servant, but mostly I feel like you're my servant." Also, cooking, gardening, and pc work are my three main passions. I'm good at them and I am passing my skills on to my daughter because that is what I know. She is not as interested in gardening, but she is very proud when she can say she prepared the apple crisp or she made the frijoles. Through cooking I teach her her heritage - both sides.
That was my question. I'm glad you state this here because I don't know why you ask me this question. I don't understand what you are driving at. Surely there are some things we can learn about how to do chores, but basically they are just something that need to be done and if not we don't eat, have clean clothes, or a clean home. Unless we have a servant, who will do those things? They are not the same to me as reading and learning skills that follow our passions. I wish I never had to clean my apartment again, but that wish won't come true unless I want cockroaches to invade and never leave. However, I agree with the idea of choosing when it comes to what you want to study - hence we are unschooling. I have read to Julia since she was born. Literally. We drove down to Mexico with a pickup full of my pots and pans and our books. Those were the important things to us. When we began reading chapter books, I read to Julia. I wanted her to read to herself, but I figured that would come
when she was ready. Then she chose a series of books I loathed, but I continued to read them to her. She started to read to herself between our morning and evening sessions. Now she enjoys reading to herself each day for long periods, but we still have at least one hour long session in which I read to her. It's tradition and it helped her become and independent reader, I believe. She wants to be a film director and script writer. We are quite poor, but I said she could have a yard sale. We even sold her bunk beds. The proceeds for all are going toward her first video camera. That is her passion. That door is open to her. She is also saving her money and I am contributing to the collection.
Yes, we are different from your family. It is just the two of us. If I am to spend time with Julia doing the fun things then she has to help me with my work and chores. One of my jobs is as a replacement cook and bed and breakfasts. We have to be on the street by 6:00 a.m. and go up the hill with all the servants to the gringo mansions. We work in the kitchen, Julia helps set table and serve. She also :) makes the coffee (as she chooses to). For this we make about $40 a week. Afterwards we go down town to my consulting jobs where I help people with their pc software problems. She hates this, I can't afford for someone to watch her. She says she would rather be with me than with a sitter or in a "day care".
-=- She has her own ideas and expresses them without fear of being shut down
by me. That is because I don't see her as a lower class simply because she is
younger.-=-
What if she had the idea that she didn't want the responsibility of sweeping
the floor? Would you discuss it with her? What if I had the idea I was tired of keeping house and being a mom. Should I discuss it with her? She knows that part of being a family means having responsibilities. To me, that is important. She feels a real sense of value in our home because of what she contributes.
Some people talk about children as though they're equal partners in the home.
Maybe in the case of a single parent and single child living together
that's as true as it's going to get. But there are still questions. I don't know what you are talking about here. Do you believe children are equal or they aren't? I feel you are saying that whatever you do believe that I feel the opposite and thus am wrong. I really don't like extremes, Sandra. I think there are gray shades in between. Nothing is all good or all bad.
If the principles that apply to other learning apply to all situations, then
making a child sweep or deliver coffee might run counter to them growing up to
WANT to sweep and bring coffee. I think I already answered this. I don't see responsibilities / chores as the same thing as learning per se. I would never ever have time to look at a book myself if she didn't help me out at all. As it is, I have precious little time to myself. I'm not complaining. The exchange is worth it. I don't want to walk up the hill so early to be a servant to rich people, but I do take pride in the work I do and I am super satisfied when they tell me my food was delicious. I want my daughter to learn the pride there is in a job well done... even a job she doesn't necessarily want to do.
I said I look forward to meeting you and I do. Hopefully we can laugh together as we share ideas.
Roberta Romero
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "AlwaysLearning" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/20/05 3:58:19 PM, lagobonita@... writes:
It didn't sound, the way you wrote it, that your daughter had so many
options. I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
-=-You said your daughter chops vegetables, slices fruit...
She chooses to, or you tell her to?-=-
Not that it is your business, but she chooses to.
Anything you wish to keep private should not be put on a discussion list.
The purpose of this list is to discuss unschooling, how it works, and why it
works, and how it can work better.
-=-She would have other kitchen duties if not that.-=-
Rather than get angry with me, perhaps consider reading what lots of other
moms have written here:
http://sandradodd.com/chores
They didn't write for that page, they wrote for discussions like this one.
If unschooling is about just "whatever," there's no reason to discuss it. I
personally like the discussions a lot, and have changed how I view my
children because of discussions here and in other groups (La Leche League, adult
children of Alcoholics, unschooling and homeschooling discussions over the years).
-=- Surely there are some things we can learn about how to do chores, but
basically they are just something that need to be done and if not we don't eat,
have clean clothes, or a clean home. Unless we have a servant, who will do
those things?-=-
There's another way to see all that.
-=-They are not the same to me as reading and learning skills that follow our
passions.-=-
There are similarities, though, and there are principles that apply to all
parts of life that have to do with choices and joy.
Colors don't pass through yahoogroups, so these quotes weren't marked, but
I'll mark them.
I wrote
-=-What if she had the idea that she didn't want the responsibility of
sweeping
the floor? Would you discuss it with her?-=-
The response was
-=-What if I had the idea I was tired of keeping house and being a mom.
Should I discuss it with her?-=--
That seems snarky, but it's an honest question, right?
There have been many mothers who have NOT discussed it with a child, but just
left and not come back. You could do that. I could do that. We choose
not to. It's a choice.
-=- I don't know what you are talking about here. Do you believe children are
equal or they aren't?-=-
Their feelings are equal to ours; their abilities aren't.
Their life fource is equal to ours; their experiences aren't.
Their souls are equal to ours; their responsibilities aren't.
-=I feel you are saying that whatever you do believe that I feel the opposite
and thus am wrong. -=-
I've done it two ways and chose after. If I'm sharing something you hadn't
considered before, you can consider it or not. It doesn't change my family's
life for you to think I'm dopey. If I hadn't considered what others were
saying, I'd still be "requiring chores" and we'd have something to fight about
and there would be resentment in the house where there now is none.
Sandra
I really don't like extremes, Sandra. I think there are gray shades in
between. Nothing is all good or all bad.-=-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I think that in all loving relationships it is not only normal, butI do too; I agree completely.
> beautiful to serve each other sometimes.
>
It didn't sound, the way you wrote it, that your daughter had so many
options. I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
-=-You said your daughter chops vegetables, slices fruit...
She chooses to, or you tell her to?-=-
Not that it is your business, but she chooses to.
Anything you wish to keep private should not be put on a discussion list.
The purpose of this list is to discuss unschooling, how it works, and why it
works, and how it can work better.
-=-She would have other kitchen duties if not that.-=-
Rather than get angry with me, perhaps consider reading what lots of other
moms have written here:
http://sandradodd.com/chores
They didn't write for that page, they wrote for discussions like this one.
If unschooling is about just "whatever," there's no reason to discuss it. I
personally like the discussions a lot, and have changed how I view my
children because of discussions here and in other groups (La Leche League, adult
children of Alcoholics, unschooling and homeschooling discussions over the years).
-=- Surely there are some things we can learn about how to do chores, but
basically they are just something that need to be done and if not we don't eat,
have clean clothes, or a clean home. Unless we have a servant, who will do
those things?-=-
There's another way to see all that.
-=-They are not the same to me as reading and learning skills that follow our
passions.-=-
There are similarities, though, and there are principles that apply to all
parts of life that have to do with choices and joy.
Colors don't pass through yahoogroups, so these quotes weren't marked, but
I'll mark them.
I wrote
-=-What if she had the idea that she didn't want the responsibility of
sweeping
the floor? Would you discuss it with her?-=-
The response was
-=-What if I had the idea I was tired of keeping house and being a mom.
Should I discuss it with her?-=--
That seems snarky, but it's an honest question, right?
There have been many mothers who have NOT discussed it with a child, but just
left and not come back. You could do that. I could do that. We choose
not to. It's a choice.
-=- I don't know what you are talking about here. Do you believe children are
equal or they aren't?-=-
Their feelings are equal to ours; their abilities aren't.
Their life fource is equal to ours; their experiences aren't.
Their souls are equal to ours; their responsibilities aren't.
-=I feel you are saying that whatever you do believe that I feel the opposite
and thus am wrong. -=-
I've done it two ways and chose after. If I'm sharing something you hadn't
considered before, you can consider it or not. It doesn't change my family's
life for you to think I'm dopey. If I hadn't considered what others were
saying, I'd still be "requiring chores" and we'd have something to fight about
and there would be resentment in the house where there now is none.
Sandra
I really don't like extremes, Sandra. I think there are gray shades in
between. Nothing is all good or all bad.-=-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Roberta Romero
"Rather than get angry with me, perhaps consider reading what lots of other
moms have written here: http://sandradodd.com/chores"
I'm not angry. I just felt you were telling me to do things your way and that you weren't respecting my opinion. I would like to be friends and have said that in both my prior e-mails to you by saying I am looking forward to meeting you.
I read these postings and I read the recent article about chores in the unschooling magazine. I have lived 40 some years and have had many experiences to consider in developing my parenting style as well. We have chosen slightly different pathes. I am ok with yours as long as you don't consider it the only way to be. Likewise, I don't think our way (Julia and mine) is the only way to be. We have evolved into something that works for us.
I think you may have confused the issue because of my use of the word "chore". We recently read the Laura Ingalls Wilder books and that word is a carryover from Laura's lingo. Ooops.
I see my responsibility as a mother to teach Julia how to be independent and how to care for herself. She takes extreme pride in her independence. For example, she has dressed herself (in some wild combos) since she could figure out how to get something on... since age 2. While other mothers selected their childrens clothes, Julia selected and put on her own. This type of independence is something that she continues to carry. I enjoy watching her develop as a person - her own person - as someone who can care for herself more and more day by day.
"I've done it two ways and chose after. If I'm sharing something you hadn't
considered before, you can consider it or not. It doesn't change my family's
life for you to think I'm dopey. If I hadn't considered what others were
saying, I'd still be "requiring chores" and we'd have something to fight about
and there would be resentment in the house where there now is none."
I don't think you are dopey at all. I think you are incredibly interesting because you have chosen to live thoughtfully and not follow the crowd. For this tengo muchas ganas a conocerte... I'm looking forward to meeting you. Julia's dad lives in Albuquerque and we visit him once a year at least. I was hoping we could have coffee or get together. I'll stop trying so hard and take my cues from you.
Wishing you all the best with your endevours.
Roberta
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 7/20/05 3:58:19 PM, lagobonita@... writes:
It didn't sound, the way you wrote it, that your daughter had so many
options. I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
-=-You said your daughter chops vegetables, slices fruit...
She chooses to, or you tell her to?-=-
Not that it is your business, but she chooses to.
Anything you wish to keep private should not be put on a discussion list.
The purpose of this list is to discuss unschooling, how it works, and why it
works, and how it can work better.
-=-She would have other kitchen duties if not that.-=-
Rather than get angry with me, perhaps consider reading what lots of other
moms have written here:
http://sandradodd.com/chores
They didn't write for that page, they wrote for discussions like this one.
If unschooling is about just "whatever," there's no reason to discuss it. I
personally like the discussions a lot, and have changed how I view my
children because of discussions here and in other groups (La Leche League, adult
children of Alcoholics, unschooling and homeschooling discussions over the years).
-=- Surely there are some things we can learn about how to do chores, but
basically they are just something that need to be done and if not we don't eat,
have clean clothes, or a clean home. Unless we have a servant, who will do
those things?-=-
There's another way to see all that.
-=-They are not the same to me as reading and learning skills that follow our
passions.-=-
There are similarities, though, and there are principles that apply to all
parts of life that have to do with choices and joy.
Colors don't pass through yahoogroups, so these quotes weren't marked, but
I'll mark them.
I wrote
-=-What if she had the idea that she didn't want the responsibility of
sweeping
the floor? Would you discuss it with her?-=-
The response was
-=-What if I had the idea I was tired of keeping house and being a mom.
Should I discuss it with her?-=--
That seems snarky, but it's an honest question, right?
There have been many mothers who have NOT discussed it with a child, but just
left and not come back. You could do that. I could do that. We choose
not to. It's a choice.
-=- I don't know what you are talking about here. Do you believe children are
equal or they aren't?-=-
Their feelings are equal to ours; their abilities aren't.
Their life fource is equal to ours; their experiences aren't.
Their souls are equal to ours; their responsibilities aren't.
-=I feel you are saying that whatever you do believe that I feel the opposite
and thus am wrong. -=-
I've done it two ways and chose after. If I'm sharing something you hadn't
considered before, you can consider it or not. It doesn't change my family's
life for you to think I'm dopey. If I hadn't considered what others were
saying, I'd still be "requiring chores" and we'd have something to fight about
and there would be resentment in the house where there now is none.
Sandra
I really don't like extremes, Sandra. I think there are gray shades in
between. Nothing is all good or all bad.-=-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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moms have written here: http://sandradodd.com/chores"
I'm not angry. I just felt you were telling me to do things your way and that you weren't respecting my opinion. I would like to be friends and have said that in both my prior e-mails to you by saying I am looking forward to meeting you.
I read these postings and I read the recent article about chores in the unschooling magazine. I have lived 40 some years and have had many experiences to consider in developing my parenting style as well. We have chosen slightly different pathes. I am ok with yours as long as you don't consider it the only way to be. Likewise, I don't think our way (Julia and mine) is the only way to be. We have evolved into something that works for us.
I think you may have confused the issue because of my use of the word "chore". We recently read the Laura Ingalls Wilder books and that word is a carryover from Laura's lingo. Ooops.
I see my responsibility as a mother to teach Julia how to be independent and how to care for herself. She takes extreme pride in her independence. For example, she has dressed herself (in some wild combos) since she could figure out how to get something on... since age 2. While other mothers selected their childrens clothes, Julia selected and put on her own. This type of independence is something that she continues to carry. I enjoy watching her develop as a person - her own person - as someone who can care for herself more and more day by day.
"I've done it two ways and chose after. If I'm sharing something you hadn't
considered before, you can consider it or not. It doesn't change my family's
life for you to think I'm dopey. If I hadn't considered what others were
saying, I'd still be "requiring chores" and we'd have something to fight about
and there would be resentment in the house where there now is none."
I don't think you are dopey at all. I think you are incredibly interesting because you have chosen to live thoughtfully and not follow the crowd. For this tengo muchas ganas a conocerte... I'm looking forward to meeting you. Julia's dad lives in Albuquerque and we visit him once a year at least. I was hoping we could have coffee or get together. I'll stop trying so hard and take my cues from you.
Wishing you all the best with your endevours.
Roberta
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 7/20/05 3:58:19 PM, lagobonita@... writes:
> I think that in all loving relationships it is not only normal, butI do too; I agree completely.
> beautiful to serve each other sometimes.
>
It didn't sound, the way you wrote it, that your daughter had so many
options. I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
-=-You said your daughter chops vegetables, slices fruit...
She chooses to, or you tell her to?-=-
Not that it is your business, but she chooses to.
Anything you wish to keep private should not be put on a discussion list.
The purpose of this list is to discuss unschooling, how it works, and why it
works, and how it can work better.
-=-She would have other kitchen duties if not that.-=-
Rather than get angry with me, perhaps consider reading what lots of other
moms have written here:
http://sandradodd.com/chores
They didn't write for that page, they wrote for discussions like this one.
If unschooling is about just "whatever," there's no reason to discuss it. I
personally like the discussions a lot, and have changed how I view my
children because of discussions here and in other groups (La Leche League, adult
children of Alcoholics, unschooling and homeschooling discussions over the years).
-=- Surely there are some things we can learn about how to do chores, but
basically they are just something that need to be done and if not we don't eat,
have clean clothes, or a clean home. Unless we have a servant, who will do
those things?-=-
There's another way to see all that.
-=-They are not the same to me as reading and learning skills that follow our
passions.-=-
There are similarities, though, and there are principles that apply to all
parts of life that have to do with choices and joy.
Colors don't pass through yahoogroups, so these quotes weren't marked, but
I'll mark them.
I wrote
-=-What if she had the idea that she didn't want the responsibility of
sweeping
the floor? Would you discuss it with her?-=-
The response was
-=-What if I had the idea I was tired of keeping house and being a mom.
Should I discuss it with her?-=--
That seems snarky, but it's an honest question, right?
There have been many mothers who have NOT discussed it with a child, but just
left and not come back. You could do that. I could do that. We choose
not to. It's a choice.
-=- I don't know what you are talking about here. Do you believe children are
equal or they aren't?-=-
Their feelings are equal to ours; their abilities aren't.
Their life fource is equal to ours; their experiences aren't.
Their souls are equal to ours; their responsibilities aren't.
-=I feel you are saying that whatever you do believe that I feel the opposite
and thus am wrong. -=-
I've done it two ways and chose after. If I'm sharing something you hadn't
considered before, you can consider it or not. It doesn't change my family's
life for you to think I'm dopey. If I hadn't considered what others were
saying, I'd still be "requiring chores" and we'd have something to fight about
and there would be resentment in the house where there now is none.
Sandra
I really don't like extremes, Sandra. I think there are gray shades in
between. Nothing is all good or all bad.-=-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/21/05 1:00:16 PM, lagobonita@... writes:
Perhaps you mean "accept," more than "respect."
-=- I would like to be friends and have said that in both my prior e-mails to
you by saying I am looking forward to meeting you.-=-
There are over 700 people on this list, and it's best when conversations are
general and not taken or aimed personally.
-=-I read these postings and I read the recent article about chores in the
unschooling magazine.-=-
I heard there was an article in one of the magazines, but what's in my
collection is probably much more practical and has to do with unschooling in
practice, not in theory.
-=- I am ok with yours as long as you don't consider it the only way to
be.-=-
My concern is what works well with unschooling for my kids. I don't
consider unschooling to be just an academic edge of life. I don't think
unschooling is the only way to live, but it's the only way my family lives, and it
doesn't matter to me whether others are okay with it or not. Much of what I now
do and believe has come from other unschoolers whose lives were a little more
peaceful than ours, and I wanted to be more like them. The give and take and
idea exchanges over the years have made my kids' lives better than they ever
could've been without the unschooling discussions on message boards and e-mail
lists, and from things I saw in two families I knew early on, Carol Rice
-McClure's and Lori Odhner's.
-=-I think you may have confused the issue because of my use of the word
"chore".-=-
No, it's a common word and it's a common concept. I don't think I was
confused.
-=-I see my responsibility as a mother to teach Julia-=-
I've moved away from teaching as much as I could, and I think using the term
"teach" keeps people from relaxing into unschooling as comfortably as they
could if they think in terms of learning.
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I just felt you were telling me to do things your way and that you weren'tIf respect is to mean anything, it needs to be saved for special occasions.
> respecting my opinion.
>
Perhaps you mean "accept," more than "respect."
-=- I would like to be friends and have said that in both my prior e-mails to
you by saying I am looking forward to meeting you.-=-
There are over 700 people on this list, and it's best when conversations are
general and not taken or aimed personally.
-=-I read these postings and I read the recent article about chores in the
unschooling magazine.-=-
I heard there was an article in one of the magazines, but what's in my
collection is probably much more practical and has to do with unschooling in
practice, not in theory.
-=- I am ok with yours as long as you don't consider it the only way to
be.-=-
My concern is what works well with unschooling for my kids. I don't
consider unschooling to be just an academic edge of life. I don't think
unschooling is the only way to live, but it's the only way my family lives, and it
doesn't matter to me whether others are okay with it or not. Much of what I now
do and believe has come from other unschoolers whose lives were a little more
peaceful than ours, and I wanted to be more like them. The give and take and
idea exchanges over the years have made my kids' lives better than they ever
could've been without the unschooling discussions on message boards and e-mail
lists, and from things I saw in two families I knew early on, Carol Rice
-McClure's and Lori Odhner's.
-=-I think you may have confused the issue because of my use of the word
"chore".-=-
No, it's a common word and it's a common concept. I don't think I was
confused.
-=-I see my responsibility as a mother to teach Julia-=-
I've moved away from teaching as much as I could, and I think using the term
"teach" keeps people from relaxing into unschooling as comfortably as they
could if they think in terms of learning.
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]