Swearing
Alicia Knight
The power of words has always fascinated me - and curses are among the
most emotion-laden power words around. I am interested in the curses
from different cultures and past times - and my kids and talk about
these all the time. For example, in Jamaica, the absolute worst thing
you can call someone is "blood clot." Can you imagine if that curse
came into use in the US?
Here are some links with lots of interesting curses:
Elizabethan Insults:
http://www.renfaire.com/Language/insults.html
Interesting Essay on the Evolution of Profanity:
http://www.cyberessays.com/Other/7.htm
Shakespearean Curse Generator
http://emml.mtu.edu/mdh/Insult.html
Gaelic Curse Generator:
http://hermes.lincolnu.edu/~focal/scripts/mallacht.htm
International Cursing and Swearing Dictionary:
http://www.geocities.com/mvea/curses.htm
Irish Curses:
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/%7Ebj333/HomePage.curses.html
Enjoy!
~ Alicia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
most emotion-laden power words around. I am interested in the curses
from different cultures and past times - and my kids and talk about
these all the time. For example, in Jamaica, the absolute worst thing
you can call someone is "blood clot." Can you imagine if that curse
came into use in the US?
Here are some links with lots of interesting curses:
Elizabethan Insults:
http://www.renfaire.com/Language/insults.html
Interesting Essay on the Evolution of Profanity:
http://www.cyberessays.com/Other/7.htm
Shakespearean Curse Generator
http://emml.mtu.edu/mdh/Insult.html
Gaelic Curse Generator:
http://hermes.lincolnu.edu/~focal/scripts/mallacht.htm
International Cursing and Swearing Dictionary:
http://www.geocities.com/mvea/curses.htm
Irish Curses:
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/%7Ebj333/HomePage.curses.html
Enjoy!
~ Alicia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
Apparently researchers were trying to show that swearing makes coping
worse in bad situations but actually found it's the opposite.
I was going to post this because of the not-too-long-ago discussion
on swearing but the title of the blog is not only The Web of Language
but has a picture of House as an illustration. Lots of connections :-)
http://tinyurl.com/n5cs3z
Joyce
worse in bad situations but actually found it's the opposite.
I was going to post this because of the not-too-long-ago discussion
on swearing but the title of the blog is not only The Web of Language
but has a picture of House as an illustration. Lots of connections :-)
http://tinyurl.com/n5cs3z
Joyce
Debbie B.
I don't want to over-react, but I want to deal with the situation appropriately.
My children and I went to the park today with two other families (moms and children). Both of these moms are good friends of mine. I had also brought along 2 children who weren't mine. So, there were 9 children in total...ages ranging from 6 - 12.
For the 3 hours that we were there everything (I thought) was going fine. The moms and I visited, and the kids played close by...but not close enough that we heard everything.
Then we drove home and the conversation began. :)
One of the children that I brought (the 12 yr old) told me that my friend's son (11) was talking inappropriately. What concerned him the most was that it was in front of the 6 yr old. There was a particular word used over and over and also used in a challenge to the boy I brought asking if he knew what it meant. ('P' word for women's genitalia) Later they were playing the "telephone" game and it and other rude comments were passed down the line by this one child in particular. Apparently, this boy has also been telling a crude joke with several swear word to mine and other children.
Swearing is not all. This boy, also encouraged by another boy, was being rude and exclusive to the boy I brought.
Now. I swore when I was a kid. I think some of it is just trying it on. I'm more concerned with the bullying type behaviour.
But I'm stuck! The boy's mother is a VERY good friend. We love spending time with her family - once or twice per week. She struggles with comments about her boy (she's had many in the past) and I feel terrible that I am now going to be yet another person to complain to her about her son. I don't know how to do with alienating her.
Is this a no brainer? My instinct is to call her and tell her what's going on in a matter of fact way. It's also, unfortunately, to lessen contact with her son. :(
Any opinions?
Debbie
PS I've tried my best to tell a complete story while omitting what I think are unimportant details.
My children and I went to the park today with two other families (moms and children). Both of these moms are good friends of mine. I had also brought along 2 children who weren't mine. So, there were 9 children in total...ages ranging from 6 - 12.
For the 3 hours that we were there everything (I thought) was going fine. The moms and I visited, and the kids played close by...but not close enough that we heard everything.
Then we drove home and the conversation began. :)
One of the children that I brought (the 12 yr old) told me that my friend's son (11) was talking inappropriately. What concerned him the most was that it was in front of the 6 yr old. There was a particular word used over and over and also used in a challenge to the boy I brought asking if he knew what it meant. ('P' word for women's genitalia) Later they were playing the "telephone" game and it and other rude comments were passed down the line by this one child in particular. Apparently, this boy has also been telling a crude joke with several swear word to mine and other children.
Swearing is not all. This boy, also encouraged by another boy, was being rude and exclusive to the boy I brought.
Now. I swore when I was a kid. I think some of it is just trying it on. I'm more concerned with the bullying type behaviour.
But I'm stuck! The boy's mother is a VERY good friend. We love spending time with her family - once or twice per week. She struggles with comments about her boy (she's had many in the past) and I feel terrible that I am now going to be yet another person to complain to her about her son. I don't know how to do with alienating her.
Is this a no brainer? My instinct is to call her and tell her what's going on in a matter of fact way. It's also, unfortunately, to lessen contact with her son. :(
Any opinions?
Debbie
PS I've tried my best to tell a complete story while omitting what I think are unimportant details.
Sandra Dodd
-=-For the 3 hours that we were there everything (I thought) was going
fine. The moms and I visited, and the kids played close by...but not
close enough that we heard everything.-=-
My first thought was that three hours is a long time for the moms not
to interact more closely with the kids. But if it seemed they were
getting along, I can see letting it go.
-=-There was a particular word used over and over and also used in a
challenge to the boy I brought asking if he knew what it meant. ('P'
word for women's genitalia) -=-
Punani?
Eleven year old boys do get excited about words.
-=- Later they were playing the "telephone" game and it and other rude
comments were passed down the line by this one child in particular.
Apparently, this boy has also been telling a crude joke with several
swear word to mine and other children.
-=-
If it were me, next time the families were together I would find a
smooth way to be alone with that boy (ask him to help you get
something out of the car or to carry something) and I would tell him
calmly and nicely but in a definite tone that you didn't want him
using punani or fuck or whatever the words were. Don't be shy and
embarrassed. Don't say "bad words" and blush, because that would just
amuse him and make him feel powerful, I think. Tell him flat out what
it is you know he said and that you want it not to happen that day.
And I'd smile and say "okay?" Get his agreement. [I wouldn't go
with "never again," I would say "today."]
Sorry, that went back and forth between "I would" and "you could."
He won't know whether you're going to talk to his mom or whether you
already have. That will make him more thoughtful and aware.
Then if you hear that he did that again, you can say "you agreed," or
you could tell his mom that you had talked with him about it, and he
had agreed, but...
Eleven is old enough to make an agreement like that, I think. Five or
six wouldn't be (in my experience, not with most kids). Another thing
I did was to charge the older kids in the group (whether my kids or
not) to make things better, not worse, for younger kids. "You're the
oldest" can have power, among kids. Even if the oldest is being
shamed a little bit, if it's that or continued damage, don't feel bad
that you've embarrassed him a little bit. And I don't think it would
be so embarrassing, especially if you and he have had a talk and he
knows what you're reminding him about, in that case.
Also if you decide he can't behave well enough for you, maybe you
could say aloud in front of the group that you're uncomfortable about
the bad language and might not want to meet so often until [name of
that boy] is a little older, maybe, or your boys are old enough to
speak up. If you wait and talk to the mom alone, you risk the
friendship more, maybe, than if you're matter-of-fact and treat it
like a condition of the park, as you would it being too windy, or too
sunny. Too many bad words.
Sandra
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fine. The moms and I visited, and the kids played close by...but not
close enough that we heard everything.-=-
My first thought was that three hours is a long time for the moms not
to interact more closely with the kids. But if it seemed they were
getting along, I can see letting it go.
-=-There was a particular word used over and over and also used in a
challenge to the boy I brought asking if he knew what it meant. ('P'
word for women's genitalia) -=-
Punani?
Eleven year old boys do get excited about words.
-=- Later they were playing the "telephone" game and it and other rude
comments were passed down the line by this one child in particular.
Apparently, this boy has also been telling a crude joke with several
swear word to mine and other children.
-=-
If it were me, next time the families were together I would find a
smooth way to be alone with that boy (ask him to help you get
something out of the car or to carry something) and I would tell him
calmly and nicely but in a definite tone that you didn't want him
using punani or fuck or whatever the words were. Don't be shy and
embarrassed. Don't say "bad words" and blush, because that would just
amuse him and make him feel powerful, I think. Tell him flat out what
it is you know he said and that you want it not to happen that day.
And I'd smile and say "okay?" Get his agreement. [I wouldn't go
with "never again," I would say "today."]
Sorry, that went back and forth between "I would" and "you could."
He won't know whether you're going to talk to his mom or whether you
already have. That will make him more thoughtful and aware.
Then if you hear that he did that again, you can say "you agreed," or
you could tell his mom that you had talked with him about it, and he
had agreed, but...
Eleven is old enough to make an agreement like that, I think. Five or
six wouldn't be (in my experience, not with most kids). Another thing
I did was to charge the older kids in the group (whether my kids or
not) to make things better, not worse, for younger kids. "You're the
oldest" can have power, among kids. Even if the oldest is being
shamed a little bit, if it's that or continued damage, don't feel bad
that you've embarrassed him a little bit. And I don't think it would
be so embarrassing, especially if you and he have had a talk and he
knows what you're reminding him about, in that case.
Also if you decide he can't behave well enough for you, maybe you
could say aloud in front of the group that you're uncomfortable about
the bad language and might not want to meet so often until [name of
that boy] is a little older, maybe, or your boys are old enough to
speak up. If you wait and talk to the mom alone, you risk the
friendship more, maybe, than if you're matter-of-fact and treat it
like a condition of the park, as you would it being too windy, or too
sunny. Too many bad words.
Sandra
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Debbie Bridge
My first thought was that three hours is a long time for the moms not
to interact more closely with the kids. But if it seemed they were
getting along, I can see letting it go.
challenge to the boy I brought asking if he knew what it meant. ('P'
word for women's genitalia) -=-
Punani?
smooth way to be alone with that boy (ask him to help you get
something out of the car or to carry something) and I would tell him
calmly and nicely but in a definite tone that you didn't want him
using punani or fuck or whatever the words were. Don't be shy and
embarrassed. Don't say "bad words" and blush, because that would just
amuse him and make him feel powerful, I think. Tell him flat out what
it is you know he said and that you want it not to happen that day.
And I'd smile and say "okay?" Get his agreement. [I wouldn't go
with "never again," I would say "today."]
That all being said, I don't want my child swearing at the playground...or at home for that matter. So, it's a fine line between boundaries and over-reacting, I think.<<
Debbie
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to interact more closely with the kids. But if it seemed they were
getting along, I can see letting it go.
>>You have a point. There weren't any problems that I saw, and we did have snack times, and we did at one point, walk around the lake, but we could've had some organized game.<<-=-There was a particular word used over and over and also used in a
challenge to the boy I brought asking if he knew what it meant. ('P'
word for women's genitalia) -=-
Punani?
>>LOL!! I didn't know how explicit I could get on here. He he he. In the light of being thorough...it was pussy. Too funny.<<Eleven year old boys do get excited about words.
>>Which is why I don't want to over react. But this kid also told a couple of pretty raunchy jokes with words like bitches, cocks, and fuck. Not that I ever did that when I was a kid! Nope...never. ;) <<If it were me, next time the families were together I would find a
smooth way to be alone with that boy (ask him to help you get
something out of the car or to carry something) and I would tell him
calmly and nicely but in a definite tone that you didn't want him
using punani or fuck or whatever the words were. Don't be shy and
embarrassed. Don't say "bad words" and blush, because that would just
amuse him and make him feel powerful, I think. Tell him flat out what
it is you know he said and that you want it not to happen that day.
And I'd smile and say "okay?" Get his agreement. [I wouldn't go
with "never again," I would say "today."]
>>Wow. What a good idea. Hmmm. My husband really wants me to speak to her soon. I'll think on this one.<<I told them they're just words that we give power to, and that our society has deemed inappropriate. I despise saying "these words are banned from our home". For ex. So many families I know say that "stupid, idiot, hate, bored" or what-have-you are not allowed in "our home". I just think that's ridiculous. In fact, it increases the chances that the kids are going to use these words when you're not around.
>>My children and I have had a really frank discussion about the words this boy has been saying and what they mean. I came out and asked, "Do you know what a pussy is? My daughter (9) responded, "A big bra??" lol So, I had some 'splainin' to do.
That all being said, I don't want my child swearing at the playground...or at home for that matter. So, it's a fine line between boundaries and over-reacting, I think.<<
Debbie
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Debbie B.
> If it were me, next time the families were together I would find aDo you think it could work the same if I did that with her AND my kids together? She has three (9,11,12) and I have two (9 & 11). Her 9 yr old girl also told a raunchy joke to my daughter so it isn't completely isolated to the one boy (although it is for the most part). I really like the idea of being sweet, but firm and just saying the words matter of factly...thereby taking the power away from the words.
> smooth way to be alone with that boy (ask him to help you get
> something out of the car or to carry something) and I would tell him
> calmly and nicely but in a definite tone that you didn't want him
> using punani or fuck or whatever the words were. Don't be shy and
> embarrassed. Don't say "bad words" and blush, because that would just
> amuse him and make him feel powerful, I think. Tell him flat out what
> it is you know he said and that you want it not to happen that day.
> And I'd smile and say "okay?" Get his agreement. [I wouldn't go
> with "never again," I would say "today."]
Deb
Sandra Dodd
-=-Do you think it could work the same if I did that with her AND my
kids together? She has three (9,11,12) and I have two (9 & 11). Her 9
yr old girl also told a raunchy joke to my daughter so it isn't
completely isolated to the one boy (although it is for the most part).
I really like the idea of being sweet, but firm and just saying the
words matter of factly...thereby taking the power away from the words.-
=-
Hmmmm.... Maybe. You lose the possibility of the direct relationship
with the boy that way, and of the mother saving face.
Maybe you could talk to the daughter too, or ask the boy to talk to
his sister.
If both families are there, it's like a meeting, it seems to me, more
than a conversation with a little hint of ultimatum. Giving the
whole family an ultimatum in front of your family is a recipe for
embarrassment and defensiveness and argument. If you play it
smoothly with the boy, maybe none of the rest will know you even
talked to him. He might play nicer without your kids having the
knowledge that you "told him to." That's valuable to their friendships.
Saving face is important when you can easily do it.
Sometimes public confrontation is called for, but if a side request
does it, that's better for everyone.
Sandra
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kids together? She has three (9,11,12) and I have two (9 & 11). Her 9
yr old girl also told a raunchy joke to my daughter so it isn't
completely isolated to the one boy (although it is for the most part).
I really like the idea of being sweet, but firm and just saying the
words matter of factly...thereby taking the power away from the words.-
=-
Hmmmm.... Maybe. You lose the possibility of the direct relationship
with the boy that way, and of the mother saving face.
Maybe you could talk to the daughter too, or ask the boy to talk to
his sister.
If both families are there, it's like a meeting, it seems to me, more
than a conversation with a little hint of ultimatum. Giving the
whole family an ultimatum in front of your family is a recipe for
embarrassment and defensiveness and argument. If you play it
smoothly with the boy, maybe none of the rest will know you even
talked to him. He might play nicer without your kids having the
knowledge that you "told him to." That's valuable to their friendships.
Saving face is important when you can easily do it.
Sometimes public confrontation is called for, but if a side request
does it, that's better for everyone.
Sandra
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Vidyut Kale
I try not to swear around kids. When I find one that does, I spend a lot of
time with him that is totally fun. I ignore all the swear words, and use a
lot of more 'fancy' words that do the 'attention getting expression' job
like 'outrageous', like an ice cube in the sun, etc. Just fancy sounding or
visual. Often metaphors. I think kids are looking to get attention and seem
stylish when they do stuff like this. Using loads of words that they can
pick up and use works to better the vocabulary and clean up the language at
the same time, not to mention developing an interest in expression. The
swearing is just not that 'in' anymore. They go on to set new trends and be
cool with other kids and develop an ear for unusual words to keep roping
into their act. Never ever seen this fail. No fuss, no bother, loads of fun.
Vidyut
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time with him that is totally fun. I ignore all the swear words, and use a
lot of more 'fancy' words that do the 'attention getting expression' job
like 'outrageous', like an ice cube in the sun, etc. Just fancy sounding or
visual. Often metaphors. I think kids are looking to get attention and seem
stylish when they do stuff like this. Using loads of words that they can
pick up and use works to better the vocabulary and clean up the language at
the same time, not to mention developing an interest in expression. The
swearing is just not that 'in' anymore. They go on to set new trends and be
cool with other kids and develop an ear for unusual words to keep roping
into their act. Never ever seen this fail. No fuss, no bother, loads of fun.
Vidyut
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Jenny Cyphers
***One of the children that I brought (the 12 yr old) told me that my friend's son (11) was talking inappropriately. What concerned him the most was that it was in front of the 6 yr old.***
Does this boy go to school or was he recently in school?
Either way, 11 yr old boys are really entering the age of penis and fart language, and other sexual language. I don't have a boy myself, this is something that I've witnessed of other boys we've known.
Someone should be helping this kid know appropriate times and places to talk this way. Mixed age and gender company isn't the setting for most sexual and swearing content. Even if the parents don't mind swearing and naughty jokes at home, kids should know that not all those things need to be repeated in public.
I'm with Sandra on this, confront the kid directly and just let him know what you know and ask him not to do that around your kids and friends of your kids. Then I'd also let my kids know to tell him to knock it off if he starts talking in inappropriate ways that make them uncomfortable. Some kids may be too shy to do that, but mine have never been too shy to tell someone to stop doing something they didn't like. Chamille was always good at changing things around, the diversion tactic if you will, and Margaux is VERY good at being extremely blunt. I've heard her tell the neighbor kids to stop doing whatever they are doing that is rude, or they need to go home right now. She responds well to that sort of direct communication too.
My experience with kids that use swearing and inappropriate language in this way, are kids that are trying to get attention. Somewhere, this kid is needing that. If you end up needing to talk with the mom, perhaps go about it with that in mind, that maybe she needs to be interacting more with her son when they are at home so that when they go to park days she can let him romp around without having to monitor his behavior.
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Does this boy go to school or was he recently in school?
Either way, 11 yr old boys are really entering the age of penis and fart language, and other sexual language. I don't have a boy myself, this is something that I've witnessed of other boys we've known.
Someone should be helping this kid know appropriate times and places to talk this way. Mixed age and gender company isn't the setting for most sexual and swearing content. Even if the parents don't mind swearing and naughty jokes at home, kids should know that not all those things need to be repeated in public.
I'm with Sandra on this, confront the kid directly and just let him know what you know and ask him not to do that around your kids and friends of your kids. Then I'd also let my kids know to tell him to knock it off if he starts talking in inappropriate ways that make them uncomfortable. Some kids may be too shy to do that, but mine have never been too shy to tell someone to stop doing something they didn't like. Chamille was always good at changing things around, the diversion tactic if you will, and Margaux is VERY good at being extremely blunt. I've heard her tell the neighbor kids to stop doing whatever they are doing that is rude, or they need to go home right now. She responds well to that sort of direct communication too.
My experience with kids that use swearing and inappropriate language in this way, are kids that are trying to get attention. Somewhere, this kid is needing that. If you end up needing to talk with the mom, perhaps go about it with that in mind, that maybe she needs to be interacting more with her son when they are at home so that when they go to park days she can let him romp around without having to monitor his behavior.
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Jenny Cyphers
***I told them they're just words that we give power to, and that our society has deemed inappropriate. I despise saying "these words are banned from our home". For ex. So many families I know say that "stupid, idiot, hate, bored" or what-have-you are not allowed in "our home". I just think that's ridiculous. In fact, it increases the chances that the kids are going to use these words when you're not around.
That all being said, I don't want my child swearing at the playground.. .or at home for that matter. So, it's a fine line between boundaries and over-reacting, I think.<<***
I always find it really amusing when I'm out and about and see small groups of young teenagers or older preteens kind of doing the show offy loud talking, look at me, kind of stuff. As if somehow it's so hugely shocking to say these powerful words. And some kids fake embarrassment about having been so naughty to say something like that around little kids and adults. That's the kind of stuff that happens when parents ban it from their homes.
I don't want my kids swearing at the playground either! They do swear at home. There are many places that they don't swear at all because they don't want to offend others, like grandparents, neighbors, little kids and parents of little kids.
I have a very good friend who swears and prefers the company of others who swear because, in general, she's found that people who swear are often more interesting people. She really does use that as a benchmark of how close to another person she's willing to get. It's not that she doesn't have good friends that don't swear, it's more that the friends she really connects with do.
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That all being said, I don't want my child swearing at the playground.. .or at home for that matter. So, it's a fine line between boundaries and over-reacting, I think.<<***
I always find it really amusing when I'm out and about and see small groups of young teenagers or older preteens kind of doing the show offy loud talking, look at me, kind of stuff. As if somehow it's so hugely shocking to say these powerful words. And some kids fake embarrassment about having been so naughty to say something like that around little kids and adults. That's the kind of stuff that happens when parents ban it from their homes.
I don't want my kids swearing at the playground either! They do swear at home. There are many places that they don't swear at all because they don't want to offend others, like grandparents, neighbors, little kids and parents of little kids.
I have a very good friend who swears and prefers the company of others who swear because, in general, she's found that people who swear are often more interesting people. She really does use that as a benchmark of how close to another person she's willing to get. It's not that she doesn't have good friends that don't swear, it's more that the friends she really connects with do.
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keetry
== That all being said, I don't want my child swearing at the playground...or at home for that matter. So, it's a fine line between boundaries and over-reacting, I think. ==
I have told my kids that I'd appreciate it if they didn't use those words in public because they might upset someone else. For me, it's about respecting others.
Alysia
I have told my kids that I'd appreciate it if they didn't use those words in public because they might upset someone else. For me, it's about respecting others.
Alysia
lalow66
Swearing is to me like farting.. it is polite watch who you fart around. In some company it seems to be accepted and humorous and in other company it is rude. I try to help my kids understand the difference.
That being said I dont swear or fart around my kids except accidently, and then usually blame it on the dog.
That being said I dont swear or fart around my kids except accidently, and then usually blame it on the dog.
Sandra Dodd
-=-That being said I dont swear or fart around my kids except
accidently, and then usually blame it on the dog.-=-
That's what I'm doing next time I fart. "Fucking dog farted!"
"The dog said it!"
In my family of two longtime-teen boys and one younger sister and
husband who looks like a biker/Viking/wrestler, I'm the most foul-
mouthed. My husband the least likely to say "damn."
Sandra
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accidently, and then usually blame it on the dog.-=-
That's what I'm doing next time I fart. "Fucking dog farted!"
"The dog said it!"
In my family of two longtime-teen boys and one younger sister and
husband who looks like a biker/Viking/wrestler, I'm the most foul-
mouthed. My husband the least likely to say "damn."
Sandra
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Pam Sorooshian
On 4/22/2010 11:18 AM, Jenny Cyphers wrote:
time and place to try that kind of stuff out, though. If the other kids
are offended, maybe they should say, "Don't talk like that, I don't like
it." Or, if they're worried about the younger kids hearing it, they
could say that.
I've found these are usually phases kids go through and best downplayed
or completely ignored, in the absence of other problems and assuming
they are kids who otherwise like to hang out together. It usually isn't
worth it to make any kind of big deal about it - it usually just goes away.
If the kids aren't doing it in front of the other kids' parents, then
they DO know that is inappropriate, so that's good. They are using some
judgment, but they are probably getting a big laugh or some kind of
wanted response out of the other kids, even though the kids are
reporting on it to their own parent, later.
-pam
> Someone should be helping this kid know appropriate times and placesWith other kids their own age probably does seem like the appropriate
> to talk this way. Mixed age and gender company isn't the setting for
> most sexual and swearing content. Even if the parents don't mind
> swearing and naughty jokes at home, kids should know that not all
> those things need to be repeated in public.
time and place to try that kind of stuff out, though. If the other kids
are offended, maybe they should say, "Don't talk like that, I don't like
it." Or, if they're worried about the younger kids hearing it, they
could say that.
I've found these are usually phases kids go through and best downplayed
or completely ignored, in the absence of other problems and assuming
they are kids who otherwise like to hang out together. It usually isn't
worth it to make any kind of big deal about it - it usually just goes away.
If the kids aren't doing it in front of the other kids' parents, then
they DO know that is inappropriate, so that's good. They are using some
judgment, but they are probably getting a big laugh or some kind of
wanted response out of the other kids, even though the kids are
reporting on it to their own parent, later.
-pam
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@...> wrote:
Bob
>I read a news item this morning about Gordon Ramsay being in Melbourne this past week to open his first Australian restaurant. I'm wondering now what his wife does when any of their four young children want to watch daddy on TV. A tricky situation I would think!
> I try not to swear around kids. When I find one that does, I spend a lot of
> time with him that is totally fun. I ignore all the swear words, and use a
> lot of more 'fancy' words that do the 'attention getting expression' job
> like 'outrageous', like an ice cube in the sun, etc. Just fancy sounding or
> visual. Often metaphors. I think kids are looking to get attention and seem
> stylish when they do stuff like this. Using loads of words that they can
> pick up and use works to better the vocabulary and clean up the language at
> the same time, not to mention developing an interest in expression. The
> swearing is just not that 'in' anymore. They go on to set new trends and be
> cool with other kids and develop an ear for unusual words to keep roping
> into their act. Never ever seen this fail. No fuss, no bother, loads of fun.
>
> Vidyut
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Bob
Debbie B.
I see in the archives you've had a few discussions on this topic previously with some great links on the history (which i'm excited to check out!). So, thanks for your patience and indulgence.
I told my friend about it, and she's very upset. We went over to her house yesterday for a visit. Very soon after she we arrived I started to tell her, but then asked if she would trust me to try something with her son. She did.
She asked him to come in the kitchen (as she would any other time) but once he got there she said I wanted to speak to him. We went into the other room alone, and I said matter of factly:
"I don't want you using the word, 'pussy' today."
He nodded his head (with wide eyes).
"I also don't want you telling jokes to my kids with the words 'bastards, bitches, cocks, shit, or fuck' in them.
He nodded again and said, "okay".
"Great. Go have a good time."
It wasn't exactly as you said, Sandra. He likely knew right off the bat that his mom knew since she called him in, but oh well. :)
My friend is at her wit's end because this isn't the first complaint about her son. It might be regarding swearing, but out of her three kids he's the one that gets into a lot of trouble. BTW, her children have never been to school.
She was crying at one point saying she just didn't know what to do. I, unfortunately, had no words of advice to give her. This swearing thing seems to be a straw and camel's back thing.
Anyway, thanks for your help.
Debbie
I told my friend about it, and she's very upset. We went over to her house yesterday for a visit. Very soon after she we arrived I started to tell her, but then asked if she would trust me to try something with her son. She did.
She asked him to come in the kitchen (as she would any other time) but once he got there she said I wanted to speak to him. We went into the other room alone, and I said matter of factly:
"I don't want you using the word, 'pussy' today."
He nodded his head (with wide eyes).
"I also don't want you telling jokes to my kids with the words 'bastards, bitches, cocks, shit, or fuck' in them.
He nodded again and said, "okay".
"Great. Go have a good time."
It wasn't exactly as you said, Sandra. He likely knew right off the bat that his mom knew since she called him in, but oh well. :)
My friend is at her wit's end because this isn't the first complaint about her son. It might be regarding swearing, but out of her three kids he's the one that gets into a lot of trouble. BTW, her children have never been to school.
She was crying at one point saying she just didn't know what to do. I, unfortunately, had no words of advice to give her. This swearing thing seems to be a straw and camel's back thing.
Anyway, thanks for your help.
Debbie
Sandra Dodd
-=-My friend is at her wit's end because this isn't the first
complaint about her son. It might be regarding swearing, but out of
her three kids he's the one that gets into a lot of trouble. BTW, her
children have never been to school.
-=-She was crying at one point saying she just didn't know what to do.
I, unfortunately, had no words of advice to give her. This swearing
thing seems to be a straw and camel's back thing.-=-
Debbie, I'm glad to hear that went well. I have a suggestion, then.
Maybe you can find an opportunity to be alone with the son for a
little longer. Maybe you and he could go out to the store or for food
during an outing while she keeps your other kids, if that could be
arranged in a smooth fashion that seemed natural. And maybe in the
car while you're riding side by side, you could tell him his mom's
worried, and ask her if there's anything anyone could do to make
things better. Don't say "I want to help you." Make the offer more
obliquely, without looking at him.
He might confide in you, or he might just think about it and look at
his behavior differently himself.
Maybe at the end you could say "If you ever want to talk, call me!"
just as you would with an adult friend. Try to keep the tone of voice
and intent as you would with a friend rather than big adult to little
boy.
http://sandradodd.com/truck
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
complaint about her son. It might be regarding swearing, but out of
her three kids he's the one that gets into a lot of trouble. BTW, her
children have never been to school.
-=-She was crying at one point saying she just didn't know what to do.
I, unfortunately, had no words of advice to give her. This swearing
thing seems to be a straw and camel's back thing.-=-
Debbie, I'm glad to hear that went well. I have a suggestion, then.
Maybe you can find an opportunity to be alone with the son for a
little longer. Maybe you and he could go out to the store or for food
during an outing while she keeps your other kids, if that could be
arranged in a smooth fashion that seemed natural. And maybe in the
car while you're riding side by side, you could tell him his mom's
worried, and ask her if there's anything anyone could do to make
things better. Don't say "I want to help you." Make the offer more
obliquely, without looking at him.
He might confide in you, or he might just think about it and look at
his behavior differently himself.
Maybe at the end you could say "If you ever want to talk, call me!"
just as you would with an adult friend. Try to keep the tone of voice
and intent as you would with a friend rather than big adult to little
boy.
http://sandradodd.com/truck
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debbie B.
>And maybe in the car while you're riding side by side, you could tell him his mom'sThis is wonderful advice. I'm going to have really brainstorm a way this could happen because it's never happened in the 4 yrs I've known them that I would be in the car (or something similar) alone with him. Perhaps I could invite him over for some time alone with my son, and then finagle a way to be alone with him while we're doing a task. Hmmmm.
> worried, and ask her if there's anything anyone could do to make
> things better. Don't say "I want to help you." Make the offer more
> obliquely, without looking at him.
>
> Maybe at the end you could say "If you ever want to talk, call me!"
> just as you would with an adult friend. Try to keep the tone of voice
> and intent as you would with a friend rather than big adult to little
> boy.
I'm going to put my intention out there and hope a situation serves itself up soon. :)
>Love this. I've sent the link to a couple of my friends, too. I feel so fortunate that my son is so open with me. A lot of our conversations happen in the vehicle. He also loved to talk at night while I'm tucking him in.
> http://sandradodd.com/truck
Thanks again,
Deb
Jenny Cyphers
***With other kids their own age probably does seem like the appropriate
time and place to try that kind of stuff out, though. If the other kids
are offended, maybe they should say, "Don't talk like that, I don't like
it." Or, if they're worried about the younger kids hearing it, they
could say that.***
This is very much the experience that I've had. It's fun to mess around with those big words and ideas, and even more fun to joke around, but certainly not much fun to make others uncomfortable!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
time and place to try that kind of stuff out, though. If the other kids
are offended, maybe they should say, "Don't talk like that, I don't like
it." Or, if they're worried about the younger kids hearing it, they
could say that.***
This is very much the experience that I've had. It's fun to mess around with those big words and ideas, and even more fun to joke around, but certainly not much fun to make others uncomfortable!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
***With other kids their own age probably does seem like the appropriate
time and place to try that kind of stuff out, though. If the other kids
are offended, maybe they should say, "Don't talk like that, I don't like
it." Or, if they're worried about the younger kids hearing it, they
could say that.***
Hayden's expressions have increased in their *passion* since the onset of
hormones...
Volume control has traditionally more of an issue than content, so I took
steps to dampen the echo in his room (blanket on one wall, egg cartons on
another).
Only recently, with this new intensity of his language and interaction with
his X BOX live friends, have I had to be serious/stern about certain
words/phrases and their appropriate use/audience (if any!). Lots of "that's
what she said" floats out of his room, which I giggle at or ignore; at "ass
rape," however, I drew the line. "Guys, that's a really serious word and it
means a horrific act of violence. You say that in public and you're gonna
get *serious* reactions from emotionally charged people, who don't care if
you're "just joking around" -- it's not funny." I haven't heard it from
Hayden nor his friend, since. Are they still saying it? If they are, it's
with a new awareness.
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.wordpress.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
time and place to try that kind of stuff out, though. If the other kids
are offended, maybe they should say, "Don't talk like that, I don't like
it." Or, if they're worried about the younger kids hearing it, they
could say that.***
Hayden's expressions have increased in their *passion* since the onset of
hormones...
Volume control has traditionally more of an issue than content, so I took
steps to dampen the echo in his room (blanket on one wall, egg cartons on
another).
Only recently, with this new intensity of his language and interaction with
his X BOX live friends, have I had to be serious/stern about certain
words/phrases and their appropriate use/audience (if any!). Lots of "that's
what she said" floats out of his room, which I giggle at or ignore; at "ass
rape," however, I drew the line. "Guys, that's a really serious word and it
means a horrific act of violence. You say that in public and you're gonna
get *serious* reactions from emotionally charged people, who don't care if
you're "just joking around" -- it's not funny." I haven't heard it from
Hayden nor his friend, since. Are they still saying it? If they are, it's
with a new awareness.
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.wordpress.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I told them they're just words that we give power to, and that our
society has deemed inappropriate. I despise saying "these words are
banned from our home". For ex. So many families I know say that
"stupid, idiot, hate, bored" or what-have-you are not allowed in "our
home". I just think that's ridiculous. In fact, it increases the
chances that the kids are going to use these words when you're not
around. -=-
I lost this when it was new so I'm glad Ria found it for me.
I had meant to comment when it was new.
I don't think "stupid, idiot, hate and bored" are ANYTHING like
"swearing." Bad language is often just like fart noises. It's
toilet humor of young children. Or it's an exclamation, used when
someone stubs a toe, or drops something.
For an unschooling family, if ANYone in the family, parents or adults,
is talking about people or situations, things or input of any sort as
"stupid" or saying "I hate that," unschooling will not flourish. If
anyone is calling anyone (even fictional characters or politicians)
"idiot," those kids will have a difficult to impossible time learning
to be compassionate and kind. If anyone is bored or talking about
boredom, the parents should do better at providing a good unschooling
environment.
I always say something if someone is visiting and says any of those
things. "That's stupid" is the sort of put-down that causes
schoolkids to stop expressing curiosity, to stop asking questions, to
stop doing things they were doing. When kids stand around quietly
instead of being, doing, talking, thinking, it's probably because
they've heard "That's stupid," or "you're an idiot if you like that,"
or other casual negativity.
Casual negativity is pollution of joy. It will not allow for effusion.
You know what else is destructive of exploration and the desire to
learn? "Ridiculous."
There have been three or four times in the past when someone used that
word on this list, and I have said something about that too.
My kids are not more likely to say "hate" or "stupid" outside the
house. I didn't say "don't ever say that in my house." I explained
why it was bad to label things so damningly, and how it could keep a
sibling from exploring or doing something, and that I was unwilling to
risk having that happen. If unschooling was going to work, people
needed to be kind in the way they spoke of other people's preferences,
hobbies, music, movies, clothes, hair, shoes, etc.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
society has deemed inappropriate. I despise saying "these words are
banned from our home". For ex. So many families I know say that
"stupid, idiot, hate, bored" or what-have-you are not allowed in "our
home". I just think that's ridiculous. In fact, it increases the
chances that the kids are going to use these words when you're not
around. -=-
I lost this when it was new so I'm glad Ria found it for me.
I had meant to comment when it was new.
I don't think "stupid, idiot, hate and bored" are ANYTHING like
"swearing." Bad language is often just like fart noises. It's
toilet humor of young children. Or it's an exclamation, used when
someone stubs a toe, or drops something.
For an unschooling family, if ANYone in the family, parents or adults,
is talking about people or situations, things or input of any sort as
"stupid" or saying "I hate that," unschooling will not flourish. If
anyone is calling anyone (even fictional characters or politicians)
"idiot," those kids will have a difficult to impossible time learning
to be compassionate and kind. If anyone is bored or talking about
boredom, the parents should do better at providing a good unschooling
environment.
I always say something if someone is visiting and says any of those
things. "That's stupid" is the sort of put-down that causes
schoolkids to stop expressing curiosity, to stop asking questions, to
stop doing things they were doing. When kids stand around quietly
instead of being, doing, talking, thinking, it's probably because
they've heard "That's stupid," or "you're an idiot if you like that,"
or other casual negativity.
Casual negativity is pollution of joy. It will not allow for effusion.
You know what else is destructive of exploration and the desire to
learn? "Ridiculous."
There have been three or four times in the past when someone used that
word on this list, and I have said something about that too.
My kids are not more likely to say "hate" or "stupid" outside the
house. I didn't say "don't ever say that in my house." I explained
why it was bad to label things so damningly, and how it could keep a
sibling from exploring or doing something, and that I was unwilling to
risk having that happen. If unschooling was going to work, people
needed to be kind in the way they spoke of other people's preferences,
hobbies, music, movies, clothes, hair, shoes, etc.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]