video games
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/10/02 5:34:03 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< On a list I don't own, I have to scoot over and sit next to things I think
are wrong. Here I don't. >>
Hence, the peaceful, happy tone most all the time...... I love it here.
Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"
[email protected] writes:
<< On a list I don't own, I have to scoot over and sit next to things I think
are wrong. Here I don't. >>
Hence, the peaceful, happy tone most all the time...... I love it here.
Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/22/2005 7:09:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
When you sit down and actually play them it doesn't seem so bad
I don't object to the content in any videa games, this just reminded me of a
conversation that Zack (17 in 3 1/2 weeks!) and I had the other day. I do sit
down and watch games with him, I find GTA to be an incredibly righ "learning"
experience, not to mention fun and funny.
Anyway, Zack asked me to buy a mini-notebook to write down his cheat codes.
If you are unfamiliar with them they consist of pressing certain buttons in a
certain sequence - right, x, triangle, left, up, down, down, etc etc. There are
usually 7-10 buttons in a sequence. For many of thse cheat codes, he
memorizes the sequence and can do them very quickly, which is important in the game.
As he starts to write the codes down, I notice him shaking his head, crossing
things out, and sighing with frustration. "Argh! I can't remember the codes!"
So I asked, "are you writing down codes that you know from the game?"
"Yes.
"Are these the codes that you can do automatically?"
"Yeah."
So I think for a minute, a connection is going on in my head.
"When you do the codes, are you thinking what buttons to push or are you
doing it by feel?"
"No, I don't think about which buttons to push, I just push them"
AHA!!!!
"I figured it out Zack, I know why you do so well and I stink at those games!
Everytime I push a button, I have to think, 'which button?', look for it and
then push it!"
And here I thought I was just a bad driver. LOL
I've seen people at registers that never look down at the keyboard. I've seen
typists that type 100 wpm without a mistake or a glance at the keyboard, Zack
may very well be like that. I'll have to watch him type next time he's on the
computer.
Well, there's probably no point to the story, just a story about making
connections.
Elissa Jill
Mystik Hill Farm
Kearneysville, WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
When you sit down and actually play them it doesn't seem so bad
I don't object to the content in any videa games, this just reminded me of a
conversation that Zack (17 in 3 1/2 weeks!) and I had the other day. I do sit
down and watch games with him, I find GTA to be an incredibly righ "learning"
experience, not to mention fun and funny.
Anyway, Zack asked me to buy a mini-notebook to write down his cheat codes.
If you are unfamiliar with them they consist of pressing certain buttons in a
certain sequence - right, x, triangle, left, up, down, down, etc etc. There are
usually 7-10 buttons in a sequence. For many of thse cheat codes, he
memorizes the sequence and can do them very quickly, which is important in the game.
As he starts to write the codes down, I notice him shaking his head, crossing
things out, and sighing with frustration. "Argh! I can't remember the codes!"
So I asked, "are you writing down codes that you know from the game?"
"Yes.
"Are these the codes that you can do automatically?"
"Yeah."
So I think for a minute, a connection is going on in my head.
"When you do the codes, are you thinking what buttons to push or are you
doing it by feel?"
"No, I don't think about which buttons to push, I just push them"
AHA!!!!
"I figured it out Zack, I know why you do so well and I stink at those games!
Everytime I push a button, I have to think, 'which button?', look for it and
then push it!"
And here I thought I was just a bad driver. LOL
I've seen people at registers that never look down at the keyboard. I've seen
typists that type 100 wpm without a mistake or a glance at the keyboard, Zack
may very well be like that. I'll have to watch him type next time he's on the
computer.
Well, there's probably no point to the story, just a story about making
connections.
Elissa Jill
Mystik Hill Farm
Kearneysville, WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laura Moseley
"My son just plays on the computer all day and
night long."
My son does as well and sometimes it bothers me and sometimes to my disappointment I even say something. That is until about 2 weeks ago and we were talking about something and I realized that he knew alot of things that I don't know, so that was all it took, he is getting very smart somehow. Also with most of the MMORPG's there is a lot of math that has to be done quickly so that you make the right decission. He can do math in his head like nobody.
Don't be bothered by the games.
Laura M.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
night long."
My son does as well and sometimes it bothers me and sometimes to my disappointment I even say something. That is until about 2 weeks ago and we were talking about something and I realized that he knew alot of things that I don't know, so that was all it took, he is getting very smart somehow. Also with most of the MMORPG's there is a lot of math that has to be done quickly so that you make the right decission. He can do math in his head like nobody.
Don't be bothered by the games.
Laura M.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
winteryspruce
I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about creatures
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will do this. I see
him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the air - he is
playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It just
doesn't seem healthy to me.
I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he finds lots to
do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feel heartbroken.
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will do this. I see
him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the air - he is
playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It just
doesn't seem healthy to me.
I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he finds lots to
do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feel heartbroken.
Lesa
That is what he's really into... why is the sad? I think it's great he's so
passionate about something. You know, he's working out and visualizing what
he's going to do next in his game when he's not actually playing. Those are
great thinking skills! Not everyone finds it easy to visualize the outcome
they are seeking. Please don't make him feel that there's anything wrong
with him for having his passion be video games.
Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
-------Original Message-------
From: winteryspruce
Date: 10/07/06 00:43:38
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] video games
I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about creatures
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or
complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will do this. I
see
him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the air - he
is
playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It just
doesn't seem healthy to me.
I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he finds lots
to
do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feel heartbroken
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
passionate about something. You know, he's working out and visualizing what
he's going to do next in his game when he's not actually playing. Those are
great thinking skills! Not everyone finds it easy to visualize the outcome
they are seeking. Please don't make him feel that there's anything wrong
with him for having his passion be video games.
Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
-------Original Message-------
From: winteryspruce
Date: 10/07/06 00:43:38
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] video games
I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about creatures
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or
complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will do this. I
see
him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the air - he
is
playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It just
doesn't seem healthy to me.
I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he finds lots
to
do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feel heartbroken
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I feel heartbroken.-=-
I recommend you read here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
Spend maybe four hours reading there, and playing it in your
imagination. Make exploding noises if you want to, but keep reading.
When you get tired of that page and its links, please consider a peek
at some of these:
http://sandradodd.com/respect
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
http://sandradodd.com/nest
While you read those things, you'll be learning.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I recommend you read here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
Spend maybe four hours reading there, and playing it in your
imagination. Make exploding noises if you want to, but keep reading.
When you get tired of that page and its links, please consider a peek
at some of these:
http://sandradodd.com/respect
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
http://sandradodd.com/nest
While you read those things, you'll be learning.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally Brown
I used to restrict the time my kids spent on games - computer and
Playstation - but haven't done so for years now. My oldest son - the one
most retricted in that sort of play and many others - no guns, no this
no that.... - grew up the most inclined to violence and such - not to
say he's vioent, but much more interested in boxing, guns etc. than the
kids that follwed.
Right now I'm sitting in our sitting room with 9 homeschooled / some
unschooled boys aged 13 - 23, ten computers (I'm allowed one!). One son
was here last night but is working tonight. They are having a LAN party.
Three are ethical, vegetarian, atheists. 5 are serious christians. That
leaves the youngest who is atheist but not vegetarian. These are among
the nicest, most ethical young people I know. I'm 55 and apart from my
sons, who I love to bits and who I regard as friends, there is another
who I count among my closest friends. And all of them are just really
cool people. One 15 year old danced with me at a public dance for 2 1/2
hours the other night with no embarrassment - he needed a danced partner
(ceroc) and I was there, so he danced with me.
They have been playing kill em shoot em games since 10pm Friday night
(New Zealand time - were into Saturday night here already) and will be
here till Sunday afternoon.
Forget the broken heart. Your son is who he is, rejoyce is his being. If
you don't make him feel bad about himself by disapproving of something
he loves, he'll be cool. Love him for who he is now, not who you
imagined he would be.
These kids here - they're cool. I just love these kids. Couldn't ask for
better.
Cally
Playstation - but haven't done so for years now. My oldest son - the one
most retricted in that sort of play and many others - no guns, no this
no that.... - grew up the most inclined to violence and such - not to
say he's vioent, but much more interested in boxing, guns etc. than the
kids that follwed.
Right now I'm sitting in our sitting room with 9 homeschooled / some
unschooled boys aged 13 - 23, ten computers (I'm allowed one!). One son
was here last night but is working tonight. They are having a LAN party.
Three are ethical, vegetarian, atheists. 5 are serious christians. That
leaves the youngest who is atheist but not vegetarian. These are among
the nicest, most ethical young people I know. I'm 55 and apart from my
sons, who I love to bits and who I regard as friends, there is another
who I count among my closest friends. And all of them are just really
cool people. One 15 year old danced with me at a public dance for 2 1/2
hours the other night with no embarrassment - he needed a danced partner
(ceroc) and I was there, so he danced with me.
They have been playing kill em shoot em games since 10pm Friday night
(New Zealand time - were into Saturday night here already) and will be
here till Sunday afternoon.
Forget the broken heart. Your son is who he is, rejoyce is his being. If
you don't make him feel bad about himself by disapproving of something
he loves, he'll be cool. Love him for who he is now, not who you
imagined he would be.
These kids here - they're cool. I just love these kids. Couldn't ask for
better.
Cally
Schuyler
I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about creatures
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will do this. I see him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the air - he is
playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It just
doesn't seem healthy to me.
I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he finds lots to
do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feel heartbroken.
_,_.___
.
"I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about creatures
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested)"
Have you played the games? Have you talked with him about the games? Yesterday Simon and Linnaea and I were playing X-Men 2 on our gamecube and they think alot about what they are doing. It looks very blunt instrumenty, but as their characters go up levels they have to distribute skill points based on what they want those characters to be strong in. So if you want Magneto to be more mentally powerful spending more points on focus is a good plan, but you don't really worry about making Colossus smart. After Simon has been intensely focusing on a game, he will run it out. Literally, he runs back and forth shooting and talking as he goes working through whatever has just happened and incorporating aspects of the game into a story. Sometimes he tells me the stories he's creating, and they are amazing. He weaves the most amazing details using whatever game he's been playing, or television show he's been watching as a backdrop. Don't dismiss what you don't know. Play the game, there is way more strategy and complex thinking going on than just viewing them may suggest. Certainly there is enough going on to keep your son's neurons firing for long after he's walked away from the game. And by suggesting that there is nothing going on in the game, you are slighting your son and his ability to find interesting things to do.
"I take him places to get away from the video games"
Your sole purpose in taking him places is getting him away from video games? Really? Do you honestly mean that? Maybe you need to think about how you are approaching these games. It sounds like they are having a more negative influence on your life than on your son's life. If it is breaking your heart, why? Why can your heart be broken by your son's enjoyment of video games? I can understand feeling left out because of video games. Simon has definitely achieved a level of skill that I cannot keep up with, or, at least, that I haven't kept up with. He and Linnaea can spot things in a video game that I would miss. Their ability to pay attention to what seem minor things to me, but what turn out to be pivotal plot points in game or in cut scene, makes them much better gamers than I am. But really, being heartbroken because your son has an interest that you don't share seems a bit, well, melodramatic. Do you have interests he doesn't share? Do you do things that aren't about him?
You've just started saying yes to video games when before you were saying no, right? The last e-mail you sent was about 10 days ago. Give it time. Find something else to do while he works through the games, actually, sit and play with him. If you have a game system, get a second controller and a game that you can play with him and join in. But let him trust that you aren't going to start saying no again. It wil take a while for the novelty to wear off. Just like with anything else novel.
It seems that you see this as a passive enterprise. I've watched ants for hours. Heck E.O. Wilson has watched ants for years. If you were to stumble upon him in the jungles of Brazil it wouldn't seem like he was doing anything, except swatting flies, probably. It looks so incredibly passive from the outside. But a lot is going on that you can't see, that you can't judge. And video games are a lot more actively engaging than watching ants or birds or a badger sett. At least from the outside looking in.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will do this. I see him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the air - he is
playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It just
doesn't seem healthy to me.
I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he finds lots to
do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feel heartbroken.
_,_.___
.
"I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about creatures
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested)"
Have you played the games? Have you talked with him about the games? Yesterday Simon and Linnaea and I were playing X-Men 2 on our gamecube and they think alot about what they are doing. It looks very blunt instrumenty, but as their characters go up levels they have to distribute skill points based on what they want those characters to be strong in. So if you want Magneto to be more mentally powerful spending more points on focus is a good plan, but you don't really worry about making Colossus smart. After Simon has been intensely focusing on a game, he will run it out. Literally, he runs back and forth shooting and talking as he goes working through whatever has just happened and incorporating aspects of the game into a story. Sometimes he tells me the stories he's creating, and they are amazing. He weaves the most amazing details using whatever game he's been playing, or television show he's been watching as a backdrop. Don't dismiss what you don't know. Play the game, there is way more strategy and complex thinking going on than just viewing them may suggest. Certainly there is enough going on to keep your son's neurons firing for long after he's walked away from the game. And by suggesting that there is nothing going on in the game, you are slighting your son and his ability to find interesting things to do.
"I take him places to get away from the video games"
Your sole purpose in taking him places is getting him away from video games? Really? Do you honestly mean that? Maybe you need to think about how you are approaching these games. It sounds like they are having a more negative influence on your life than on your son's life. If it is breaking your heart, why? Why can your heart be broken by your son's enjoyment of video games? I can understand feeling left out because of video games. Simon has definitely achieved a level of skill that I cannot keep up with, or, at least, that I haven't kept up with. He and Linnaea can spot things in a video game that I would miss. Their ability to pay attention to what seem minor things to me, but what turn out to be pivotal plot points in game or in cut scene, makes them much better gamers than I am. But really, being heartbroken because your son has an interest that you don't share seems a bit, well, melodramatic. Do you have interests he doesn't share? Do you do things that aren't about him?
You've just started saying yes to video games when before you were saying no, right? The last e-mail you sent was about 10 days ago. Give it time. Find something else to do while he works through the games, actually, sit and play with him. If you have a game system, get a second controller and a game that you can play with him and join in. But let him trust that you aren't going to start saying no again. It wil take a while for the novelty to wear off. Just like with anything else novel.
It seems that you see this as a passive enterprise. I've watched ants for hours. Heck E.O. Wilson has watched ants for years. If you were to stumble upon him in the jungles of Brazil it wouldn't seem like he was doing anything, except swatting flies, probably. It looks so incredibly passive from the outside. But a lot is going on that you can't see, that you can't judge. And video games are a lot more actively engaging than watching ants or birds or a badger sett. At least from the outside looking in.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Sorry, I didn't separate the quoted part from my response very well. The initial two paragraphs are quoted (and then quoted again in my response).
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Schuyler
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] video games
I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about creatures
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will do this. I see him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the air - he is
playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It just
doesn't seem healthy to me.
I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he finds lots to
do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feel heartbroken.
_,_.___
.
"I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about creatures
chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or complex
thinking that I can see as someone suggested)"
Have you played the games? Have you talked with him about the games? Yesterday Simon and Linnaea and I were playing X-Men 2 on our gamecube and they think alot about what they are doing. It looks very blunt instrumenty, but as their characters go up levels they have to distribute skill points based on what they want those characters to be strong in. So if you want Magneto to be more mentally powerful spending more points on focus is a good plan, but you don't really worry about making Colossus smart. After Simon has been intensely focusing on a game, he will run it out. Literally, he runs back and forth shooting and talking as he goes working through whatever has just happened and incorporating aspects of the game into a story. Sometimes he tells me the stories he's creating, and they are amazing. He weaves the most amazing details using whatever game he's been playing, or television show he's been watching as a backdrop. Don't dismiss what you don't know. Play the game, there is way more strategy and complex thinking going on than just viewing them may suggest. Certainly there is enough going on to keep your son's neurons firing for long after he's walked away from the game. And by suggesting that there is nothing going on in the game, you are slighting your son and his ability to find interesting things to do.
"I take him places to get away from the video games"
Your sole purpose in taking him places is getting him away from video games? Really? Do you honestly mean that? Maybe you need to think about how you are approaching these games. It sounds like they are having a more negative influence on your life than on your son's life. If it is breaking your heart, why? Why can your heart be broken by your son's enjoyment of video games? I can understand feeling left out because of video games. Simon has definitely achieved a level of skill that I cannot keep up with, or, at least, that I haven't kept up with. He and Linnaea can spot things in a video game that I would miss. Their ability to pay attention to what seem minor things to me, but what turn out to be pivotal plot points in game or in cut scene, makes them much better gamers than I am. But really, being heartbroken because your son has an interest that you don't share seems a bit, well, melodramatic. Do you have interests he doesn't share? Do you do things that aren't about him?
You've just started saying yes to video games when before you were saying no, right? The last e-mail you sent was about 10 days ago. Give it time. Find something else to do while he works through the games, actually, sit and play with him. If you have a game system, get a second controller and a game that you can play with him and join in. But let him trust that you aren't going to start saying no again. It wil take a while for the novelty to wear off. Just like with anything else novel.
It seems that you see this as a passive enterprise. I've watched ants for hours. Heck E.O. Wilson has watched ants for years. If you were to stumble upon him in the jungles of Brazil it wouldn't seem like he was doing anything, except swatting flies, probably. It looks so incredibly passive from the outside. But a lot is going on that you can't see, that you can't judge. And video games are a lot more actively engaging than watching ants or birds or a badger sett. At least from the outside looking in.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
averyschmidt
If it's the violence and seeming mindlessness (key word: seeming)
bothering you more than the activity choice itself, you might benefit
from taking a look at Killing Monsters: Why Children Need Fantasy,
Super Heroes, and Make-Believe Violence by Lynn Ponton.
He talks a lot about video games.
Patti
bothering you more than the activity choice itself, you might benefit
from taking a look at Killing Monsters: Why Children Need Fantasy,
Super Heroes, and Make-Believe Violence by Lynn Ponton.
He talks a lot about video games.
Patti
> I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all aboutcreatures
> chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategyor complex
> thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will dothis. I see
> him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in theair - he is
> playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. Itjust
> doesn't seem healthy to me.finds lots to
> I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he
> do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feelheartbroken.
>
Dede Amescua
Thanks for your response Schuyler . This whole video thing is such
challenge for me.
Calling my feeling of Heartbrokenness melodramatic is, well, a
judgement isn't it? Perhaps the word "heartbroken" is actually an
interpretation of a deep feeling of sadness and that is what is present
when I observe my son's constant playing of video games. If my son were
spending hours watching birds or ants I would feel joyful because I
have a belief that a deep connection with nature can lead us to an
understanding of ourselves and how we fit into the ecology of the
planet. I trust nature's influence on my son. I don;t know much about
the person that created the video game that leaves such a powerful
impression on my son. Am I to trust that because he is drawn to it
that it is good. That is an awakening for me - to trust that my son
does know what is best for him. I have trouble with that because he has
a huge attraction to sugar and eats way more of if it than I feel is
healthy - so do I trust that sugar is good for him because he wants to
eat so much of it?
Dede
challenge for me.
Calling my feeling of Heartbrokenness melodramatic is, well, a
judgement isn't it? Perhaps the word "heartbroken" is actually an
interpretation of a deep feeling of sadness and that is what is present
when I observe my son's constant playing of video games. If my son were
spending hours watching birds or ants I would feel joyful because I
have a belief that a deep connection with nature can lead us to an
understanding of ourselves and how we fit into the ecology of the
planet. I trust nature's influence on my son. I don;t know much about
the person that created the video game that leaves such a powerful
impression on my son. Am I to trust that because he is drawn to it
that it is good. That is an awakening for me - to trust that my son
does know what is best for him. I have trouble with that because he has
a huge attraction to sugar and eats way more of if it than I feel is
healthy - so do I trust that sugar is good for him because he wants to
eat so much of it?
Dede
On Saturday, October 7, 2006, at 02:29 AM, Schuyler wrote:
> I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about
> creatures
> chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or
> complex
> thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will do
> this. I see him in the car and his hands are playing the video
> controls in the air - he is
> playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It
> just
> doesn't seem healthy to me.
>
> I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he finds
> lots to
> do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feel
> heartbroken.
> _,_.___
>
> .
> "I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about
> creatures
> chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy or
> complex
> thinking that I can see as someone suggested)"
>
> Have you played the games? Have you talked with him about the games?
> Yesterday Simon and Linnaea and I were playing X-Men 2 on our gamecube
> and they think alot about what they are doing. It looks very blunt
> instrumenty, but as their characters go up levels they have to
> distribute skill points based on what they want those characters to be
> strong in. So if you want Magneto to be more mentally powerful
> spending more points on focus is a good plan, but you don't really
> worry about making Colossus smart. After Simon has been intensely
> focusing on a game, he will run it out. Literally, he runs back and
> forth shooting and talking as he goes working through whatever has
> just happened and incorporating aspects of the game into a story.
> Sometimes he tells me the stories he's creating, and they are amazing.
> He weaves the most amazing details using whatever game he's been
> playing, or television show he's been watching as a backdrop. Don't
> dismiss what you don't know. Play the game, there is way more strategy
> and complex thinking going on than just viewing them may suggest.
> Certainly there is enough going on to keep your son's neurons firing
> for long after he's walked away from the game. And by suggesting that
> there is nothing going on in the game, you are slighting your son and
> his ability to find interesting things to do.
>
> "I take him places to get away from the video games"
>
> Your sole purpose in taking him places is getting him away from video
> games? Really? Do you honestly mean that? Maybe you need to think
> about how you are approaching these games. It sounds like they are
> having a more negative influence on your life than on your son's life.
> If it is breaking your heart, why? Why can your heart be broken by
> your son's enjoyment of video games? I can understand feeling left out
> because of video games. Simon has definitely achieved a level of skill
> that I cannot keep up with, or, at least, that I haven't kept up with.
> He and Linnaea can spot things in a video game that I would miss.
> Their ability to pay attention to what seem minor things to me, but
> what turn out to be pivotal plot points in game or in cut scene, makes
> them much better gamers than I am. But really, being heartbroken
> because your son has an interest that you don't share seems a bit,
> well, melodramatic. Do you have interests he doesn't share? Do you do
> things that aren't about him?
>
> You've just started saying yes to video games when before you were
> saying no, right? The last e-mail you sent was about 10 days ago. Give
> it time. Find something else to do while he works through the games,
> actually, sit and play with him. If you have a game system, get a
> second controller and a game that you can play with him and join in.
> But let him trust that you aren't going to start saying no again. It
> wil take a while for the novelty to wear off. Just like with anything
> else novel.
>
> It seems that you see this as a passive enterprise. I've watched ants
> for hours. Heck E.O. Wilson has watched ants for years. If you were to
> stumble upon him in the jungles of Brazil it wouldn't seem like he was
> doing anything, except swatting flies, probably. It looks so
> incredibly passive from the outside. But a lot is going on that you
> can't see, that you can't judge. And video games are a lot more
> actively engaging than watching ants or birds or a badger sett. At
> least from the outside looking in.
>
> Schuyler
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
Have you ever played the games? Usually when people say that it's
because they've not played the games. They say they don't have the
time, or that the games are too hard, and then simultaneously say
that the kids aren't 'learning' anything. Maybe instead of watching,
you should be doing with him...and being his partner. And understand
that everything has it's season. "hours" of video games is
subjective, for some people it's one hour that's too much, for
others, twelve. With my kids if they are interrupted, they need to
start over to get that same feeling back. It messes up their groove,
kwim?
I know it's been addressed, and Sandra's websites are very good
resources for this. I wanted to respond though because you sound so
concerned, and let you know that video games have been instrumental
in our household, opening conversations about good vs evil, politics,
history, economics. We just have plain old fun being together,
regardless of what we're doing. I don't like all the games that the
kids play, but that's okay, we aren't all meant to be alike. They
don't like all the games I like. Scrabble for GBA bores them to
tears. But most of the games we play together and it's fun no matter
what.
You might read 'Killing the Monster', by Gerard Jones. It explains
why children need the opportunity to fight monsters and destroy them.
Developmentally it's an important step.
You might also see what else you can provide in the home. Movies,
computer games, books about video games (esp cheat codes, man those
are great in our house) Trips to the comic book store, hobby shop,
etc can provide more stuff in the house. What other outside
activities do you do beside be 'in nature'? Being exposed to new
stuff is what will generate new interests.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
because they've not played the games. They say they don't have the
time, or that the games are too hard, and then simultaneously say
that the kids aren't 'learning' anything. Maybe instead of watching,
you should be doing with him...and being his partner. And understand
that everything has it's season. "hours" of video games is
subjective, for some people it's one hour that's too much, for
others, twelve. With my kids if they are interrupted, they need to
start over to get that same feeling back. It messes up their groove,
kwim?
I know it's been addressed, and Sandra's websites are very good
resources for this. I wanted to respond though because you sound so
concerned, and let you know that video games have been instrumental
in our household, opening conversations about good vs evil, politics,
history, economics. We just have plain old fun being together,
regardless of what we're doing. I don't like all the games that the
kids play, but that's okay, we aren't all meant to be alike. They
don't like all the games I like. Scrabble for GBA bores them to
tears. But most of the games we play together and it's fun no matter
what.
You might read 'Killing the Monster', by Gerard Jones. It explains
why children need the opportunity to fight monsters and destroy them.
Developmentally it's an important step.
You might also see what else you can provide in the home. Movies,
computer games, books about video games (esp cheat codes, man those
are great in our house) Trips to the comic book store, hobby shop,
etc can provide more stuff in the house. What other outside
activities do you do beside be 'in nature'? Being exposed to new
stuff is what will generate new interests.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (9), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (5), Dan
(3), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Oct 7, 2006, at 12:39 AM, winteryspruce wrote:
> I watch the video games that my son plays and they are all about
> creatures
> chasing other creatures and destroying them ( not alot of strategy
> or complex
> thinking that I can see as someone suggested) For hours he will do
> this. I see
> him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the
> air - he is
> playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It
> just
> doesn't seem healthy to me.
> I take him places to get away from the video games. In nature he
> finds lots to
> do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. I feel
> heartbroken.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Forget the broken heart. Your son is who he is, rejoyce is his
being. If
you don't make him feel bad about himself by disapproving of something
he loves, he'll be cool.-=-
Kirby, who's 20 now, still lives at home. He made motions to move
out last winter, but we talked him out of it because he couldn't
really afford it, and was bowing to pressure from already-out young
adults who needed a roommate. They had been paying rent anyway.
He's running a game called "Killer." I described it here: http://
sandradodd.com/blogspot.com
It's about over; only two players remained last night.
Yesterday I was really, really furious at him, and shamed him and
told him he was disrespectful, inconsiderate, irresponsible and could
potentially cause someone's death if he didn't find some way to do
differently and better, and that he had a good situation, isn't even
being asked to pay for his own liability insurance, not making car
payments, and that he has found some way to be happy not caring at
ALL what I think or say.
That went on for twenty minutes, in the garage, and at the end I just
turned and walked away.
That was the worst violence of any sort at our house for a long time,
me haranguing him.
I was disapproving of something he loves, which is to wait until the
gas tank is as empty as possible before getting gas. He called me at
4:45 on a Friday afternoon to drive ten miles TOWARD the opening day
of the balloon fiesta because he had run out of gas in a double left
turn lane at Wyoming and Paseo del Norte. For those who were in
Albuquerque recently, that's the intersection near the Dion's where
he works, nearly to Trader Joe's.
I was furious. I was angry. Marty had wanted to drive that car
Monday, and mentioned that there wasn't enough gas. Kirby says he
didn't hear it. That's possible. Wednesday Marty wanted to drive it
and there was LESS gas. He did say something clearly, and I repeated
it. Thursday Kirby hadn't gotten gas. He assured me he was going
out later and would get gas. Keith and I were going to costco to gas
my van, and Keith asked me if I wanted to drive the Saturn and I said
"Kirby's going out later and will gas it."
THAT was the clincher. AND the last two times that car had been
filled were by Marty (with his money) and Keith (with his).
Friday morning when Kirby was going to work, I said "Hurry so you can
get gas on the way. You said you were going to." He muttered
something that I assumed would be agreement.
Nothing about the Killer game caused anyone the least bit of
discomfort or unhappiness. It involved logic, creativity and
relationship building. Holly was eliminated early on, but got to
design and help maintain their cool webpage. Others got to be
impressed by her artistry, knowledge and efficiency.
For running the game for 18 or so people, he was fantastic.
For procrastinating about running out of gas he was unsafe,
inconsiderate and wasteful of other people's time and safety.
Playing video games, or even in-person "shoot 'em up" games, isn't
violence.
Separating someone from something he loves is more violent to spirit
and desire.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
being. If
you don't make him feel bad about himself by disapproving of something
he loves, he'll be cool.-=-
Kirby, who's 20 now, still lives at home. He made motions to move
out last winter, but we talked him out of it because he couldn't
really afford it, and was bowing to pressure from already-out young
adults who needed a roommate. They had been paying rent anyway.
He's running a game called "Killer." I described it here: http://
sandradodd.com/blogspot.com
It's about over; only two players remained last night.
Yesterday I was really, really furious at him, and shamed him and
told him he was disrespectful, inconsiderate, irresponsible and could
potentially cause someone's death if he didn't find some way to do
differently and better, and that he had a good situation, isn't even
being asked to pay for his own liability insurance, not making car
payments, and that he has found some way to be happy not caring at
ALL what I think or say.
That went on for twenty minutes, in the garage, and at the end I just
turned and walked away.
That was the worst violence of any sort at our house for a long time,
me haranguing him.
I was disapproving of something he loves, which is to wait until the
gas tank is as empty as possible before getting gas. He called me at
4:45 on a Friday afternoon to drive ten miles TOWARD the opening day
of the balloon fiesta because he had run out of gas in a double left
turn lane at Wyoming and Paseo del Norte. For those who were in
Albuquerque recently, that's the intersection near the Dion's where
he works, nearly to Trader Joe's.
I was furious. I was angry. Marty had wanted to drive that car
Monday, and mentioned that there wasn't enough gas. Kirby says he
didn't hear it. That's possible. Wednesday Marty wanted to drive it
and there was LESS gas. He did say something clearly, and I repeated
it. Thursday Kirby hadn't gotten gas. He assured me he was going
out later and would get gas. Keith and I were going to costco to gas
my van, and Keith asked me if I wanted to drive the Saturn and I said
"Kirby's going out later and will gas it."
THAT was the clincher. AND the last two times that car had been
filled were by Marty (with his money) and Keith (with his).
Friday morning when Kirby was going to work, I said "Hurry so you can
get gas on the way. You said you were going to." He muttered
something that I assumed would be agreement.
Nothing about the Killer game caused anyone the least bit of
discomfort or unhappiness. It involved logic, creativity and
relationship building. Holly was eliminated early on, but got to
design and help maintain their cool webpage. Others got to be
impressed by her artistry, knowledge and efficiency.
For running the game for 18 or so people, he was fantastic.
For procrastinating about running out of gas he was unsafe,
inconsiderate and wasteful of other people's time and safety.
Playing video games, or even in-person "shoot 'em up" games, isn't
violence.
Separating someone from something he loves is more violent to spirit
and desire.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-"I take him places to get away from the video games"
-=-Your sole purpose in taking him places is getting him away from
video games? Really? Do you honestly mean that?-=-
If you live your life about video games (the mom, avoidance of them,
fear of them) then video games are bigger in your life than in
theirs. Let love and happiness and joy and learning be big in your
life, and everything else will be just a little part of that.
-=-Yesterday Simon and Linnaea and I were playing X-Men 2 on our
gamecube and they think alot about what they are doing. It looks very
blunt instrument...-=-
Holly has been playing two games lately, in her off time when others
aren't around: Zombies Ate my Neighbors, and Harvest Moon.
I should say for those who know gaming systems that we have everyting
except Sega and Atari. We have XBox and PSII and XBox 360 and
Nintendo DS. So what Holly's doing, in a way, is riding a scooter
and driving a VW Bug with a Jaguar and a Porsche in the driveway.
Of all the games to which she has access, she's playing a Super
Nintendo game about zombies running around in a neighborhood, and a
Gameboy game (barely in color, "colorized") about farming, having
your cows calve, and gathering your crops.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-Your sole purpose in taking him places is getting him away from
video games? Really? Do you honestly mean that?-=-
If you live your life about video games (the mom, avoidance of them,
fear of them) then video games are bigger in your life than in
theirs. Let love and happiness and joy and learning be big in your
life, and everything else will be just a little part of that.
-=-Yesterday Simon and Linnaea and I were playing X-Men 2 on our
gamecube and they think alot about what they are doing. It looks very
blunt instrument...-=-
Holly has been playing two games lately, in her off time when others
aren't around: Zombies Ate my Neighbors, and Harvest Moon.
I should say for those who know gaming systems that we have everyting
except Sega and Atari. We have XBox and PSII and XBox 360 and
Nintendo DS. So what Holly's doing, in a way, is riding a scooter
and driving a VW Bug with a Jaguar and a Porsche in the driveway.
Of all the games to which she has access, she's playing a Super
Nintendo game about zombies running around in a neighborhood, and a
Gameboy game (barely in color, "colorized") about farming, having
your cows calve, and gathering your crops.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I know it's been addressed, and Sandra's websites are very good
resources for this. I wanted to respond though because you sound so
concerned, and let you know that video games have been instrumental
in our household, opening conversations about good vs evil, politics,
history, economics.-=-
Kirby learned to read with Nintendo Power magazine, to which he
subscribed when he could only understand the maps and pictures.
Marty learned to read with a player's guide for Breath of Fire III.
Holly learned to read with a Harry Potter collectible card game and
Harvest Moon for Super Nintendo (fancier than the one she's playing
on gameboy nowadays, and less fancy than the one she played on
Gamecube for a long time after that).
My kids have played lots of games, and are peaceful, gentle people,
trusted by adults, thoughtful, full of ideas and plans and life
experiences outside of video games, sometimes with friends they met
because of video games.
-=-What other outside
activities do you do beside be 'in nature'? Being exposed to new
stuff is what will generate new interests.-=-
If they're being "exposed" to new stuff just to generate new
interests, though, they could easily decide to resist and avoid the
new stuff, long for video games, and not trust or desire time with mom.
Wanting kids to do what mom envisioned her own ideal childhood to be
is a trap to be avoided. Don't try to get them to live YOUR missed
childhood. Let them live theirs, or they will miss both.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
resources for this. I wanted to respond though because you sound so
concerned, and let you know that video games have been instrumental
in our household, opening conversations about good vs evil, politics,
history, economics.-=-
Kirby learned to read with Nintendo Power magazine, to which he
subscribed when he could only understand the maps and pictures.
Marty learned to read with a player's guide for Breath of Fire III.
Holly learned to read with a Harry Potter collectible card game and
Harvest Moon for Super Nintendo (fancier than the one she's playing
on gameboy nowadays, and less fancy than the one she played on
Gamecube for a long time after that).
My kids have played lots of games, and are peaceful, gentle people,
trusted by adults, thoughtful, full of ideas and plans and life
experiences outside of video games, sometimes with friends they met
because of video games.
-=-What other outside
activities do you do beside be 'in nature'? Being exposed to new
stuff is what will generate new interests.-=-
If they're being "exposed" to new stuff just to generate new
interests, though, they could easily decide to resist and avoid the
new stuff, long for video games, and not trust or desire time with mom.
Wanting kids to do what mom envisioned her own ideal childhood to be
is a trap to be avoided. Don't try to get them to live YOUR missed
childhood. Let them live theirs, or they will miss both.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesa
From: Dede Amescua
Date: 10/07/06 11:30:51
On: Always Learning Yahoo Group
WOW... we sure have a lot of newbies lately (here and on unschoolingbasics)
that don't like to be judged! Why the fear of being judged? What you all
don't understand is that these issues you're addressing are NOT NEW around
here. We've heard it all before. And those who listen and trust and begin
to make changes actually come back and say... "you know... you were right...
blah, blah, blah."
I was a bit defensive at first but I really took heart of what everyone was
saying and really questioned why I was getting defensive. Maybe you all
might want to do the same.
Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Date: 10/07/06 11:30:51
On: Always Learning Yahoo Group
>>>Calling my feeling of Heartbrokenness melodramatic is, well, ajudgement isn't it?<<<
WOW... we sure have a lot of newbies lately (here and on unschoolingbasics)
that don't like to be judged! Why the fear of being judged? What you all
don't understand is that these issues you're addressing are NOT NEW around
here. We've heard it all before. And those who listen and trust and begin
to make changes actually come back and say... "you know... you were right...
blah, blah, blah."
I was a bit defensive at first but I really took heart of what everyone was
saying and really questioned why I was getting defensive. Maybe you all
might want to do the same.
Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Liz in AZ
> If my son wereYou value nature and hoped that your son would share that value. You
> spending hours watching birds or ants I would feel joyful because
> I have a belief that a deep connection with nature can lead us to an
> understanding of ourselves and how we fit into the ecology of the
> planet.
are sad--heartbroken, even--because it appears at this point that he
does not share that value. You can not change his values or interests,
though you could make yourself an obstacle to them. You have two
choices*:
(a) Find a way to be happy for who your son is.
(b) Continue to be sad for who he isn't.
Which will further your relationship with him? Which will encourage
him to trust YOU? Which might promote in him an eventual desire to
check out YOUR interests?
*I can hear Sandra, 450 miles away, saying "there are always more than
2 choices", and that's of course true. However, I find this exercise
in black-or-white thinking useful when I need a slap upside the head
to remind me that while I can't, for example, make my DH a timely
person, I CAN choose to love the man he is rather than dwelling on the
man he isn't.
Liz in AZ
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Beelight@...
For hours he will do this. I see
him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the air
- he is
playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It
just
doesn't seem healthy to me.
-=-=-=-=-
I used to do that with horses. In my mind I would be riding a course. I
could "see" the course in my head, feel the horse under me, and feel
the reins in my hands. I could steer the horse throughout the course,
stride by stride, jump by jump. I could feel the missteps if I were
wrong and make changes in my next "ride." I sill do it when I'm
watching someone else ride on TV. My hands make funny squeezing
motions. I can feel the flabby muscles in my thighs and calves around
the turns and over the jumps. <g> It's exhausting! <bwg>
It never occurred to me that it might be unhealthy. I actually thought
it gave me an "edge" over my competition.
-=-=-=-
I take him places to get away from the video games.
-=-=-=-
I'm sorry. We go places to have fun.
-=-=-=-
In nature he finds lots to do.
-=-=-=-
Mine too!
-=-==-
But at home video games occupy most of his interest.
-=-=-=-
Mine too!
But because they're not seen as bad or evil or dangerous or a waste of
tiime, they're just as "educational" as anything else---including
nature!
-=-=-=-
I feel heartbroken.
-=-=-=-
Change your feelings. They're your to change.
Your feelings will not change your child's. Well, not in a good way.
Your negative feelings could make him less than or stupid or wasteful.
Better than your feelings about him and his interests are positive and
encouraging: he'll respond positively and encouraged!
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: Beelight@...
For hours he will do this. I see
him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the air
- he is
playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It
just
doesn't seem healthy to me.
-=-=-=-=-
I used to do that with horses. In my mind I would be riding a course. I
could "see" the course in my head, feel the horse under me, and feel
the reins in my hands. I could steer the horse throughout the course,
stride by stride, jump by jump. I could feel the missteps if I were
wrong and make changes in my next "ride." I sill do it when I'm
watching someone else ride on TV. My hands make funny squeezing
motions. I can feel the flabby muscles in my thighs and calves around
the turns and over the jumps. <g> It's exhausting! <bwg>
It never occurred to me that it might be unhealthy. I actually thought
it gave me an "edge" over my competition.
-=-=-=-
I take him places to get away from the video games.
-=-=-=-
I'm sorry. We go places to have fun.
-=-=-=-
In nature he finds lots to do.
-=-=-=-
Mine too!
-=-==-
But at home video games occupy most of his interest.
-=-=-=-
Mine too!
But because they're not seen as bad or evil or dangerous or a waste of
tiime, they're just as "educational" as anything else---including
nature!
-=-=-=-
I feel heartbroken.
-=-=-=-
Change your feelings. They're your to change.
Your feelings will not change your child's. Well, not in a good way.
Your negative feelings could make him less than or stupid or wasteful.
Better than your feelings about him and his interests are positive and
encouraging: he'll respond positively and encouraged!
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Oct 7, 2006, at 11:11 AM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
recently found myself moving my hands as I mentally imagine how I can
make the things I want to make.
Mentally "rehearsing" something is an excellent skill - John Holt
talked, somewhere, about the skill of mentally playing out a scenario
in your head. He said that schools don't allow that skill to develop
because they constantly tell kids what to do - kids just sit and wait
to be told what to do and don't have any reason to really think much.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I've been doing a lot of throwing pottery on a wheel and I've
> For hours he will do this. I see
> him in the car and his hands are playing the video controls in the
> air
> - he is
> playing them in his imagination and making the exploding noises. It
> just
> doesn't seem healthy to me.
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> I used to do that with horses.
recently found myself moving my hands as I mentally imagine how I can
make the things I want to make.
Mentally "rehearsing" something is an excellent skill - John Holt
talked, somewhere, about the skill of mentally playing out a scenario
in your head. He said that schools don't allow that skill to develop
because they constantly tell kids what to do - kids just sit and wait
to be told what to do and don't have any reason to really think much.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I used to do that with horses. In my mind I would be riding a
course. I
could "see" the course in my head, feel the horse under me, and feel
the reins in my hands. I could steer the horse throughout the course,
stride by stride, jump by jump-=-
Robyn Coburn gave me a very cook book called The Little Princesses,
and it's the account of the governess of Elizabeth (now Queen) and
Margaret, when they were little girls, before their dad had any idea
he might ever be king.
The account of the first time she met Elizabeth, who was five years
old or so, is this:
"A small figure with a mop of curls sat up in bed. She wore a
nightie with a design of small pink roses on it. She had tied the
cords of her dressing gown to the knobs of the old-fashioned bed, and
was busy driving her team.
"That was my first glimpse of Princess Elizabeth.
"'This is Miss Craword,': said [the nanny], in her sterm way.
"The little girl said, 'How do you do.'. . . .
"She picked up her reins again.
"'Do you usually drive in bed?' I asked.
"'I mostly go once or twice round the park before I go to sleep, you
know,' she said. 'It exercises my horses.' She navigated a
dangerous and difficult corner, and went on... 'Are you going to
stay with us?' "
My sister used to play flute, with her fingers, in the absence of her
flute. I've tapped out songs on a keyboard that wasn't there, with
one hand, when I was trying to write out music and trying to figure
out what some interval was. My hand knows.
I've tapped out phone numbers on invisible phones because it's a
muscle memory, not a verbal/numeric memory.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
course. I
could "see" the course in my head, feel the horse under me, and feel
the reins in my hands. I could steer the horse throughout the course,
stride by stride, jump by jump-=-
Robyn Coburn gave me a very cook book called The Little Princesses,
and it's the account of the governess of Elizabeth (now Queen) and
Margaret, when they were little girls, before their dad had any idea
he might ever be king.
The account of the first time she met Elizabeth, who was five years
old or so, is this:
"A small figure with a mop of curls sat up in bed. She wore a
nightie with a design of small pink roses on it. She had tied the
cords of her dressing gown to the knobs of the old-fashioned bed, and
was busy driving her team.
"That was my first glimpse of Princess Elizabeth.
"'This is Miss Craword,': said [the nanny], in her sterm way.
"The little girl said, 'How do you do.'. . . .
"She picked up her reins again.
"'Do you usually drive in bed?' I asked.
"'I mostly go once or twice round the park before I go to sleep, you
know,' she said. 'It exercises my horses.' She navigated a
dangerous and difficult corner, and went on... 'Are you going to
stay with us?' "
My sister used to play flute, with her fingers, in the absence of her
flute. I've tapped out songs on a keyboard that wasn't there, with
one hand, when I was trying to write out music and trying to figure
out what some interval was. My hand knows.
I've tapped out phone numbers on invisible phones because it's a
muscle memory, not a verbal/numeric memory.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Calling my feeling of Heartbrokenness melodramatic is, well, a
judgement isn't it? -=-
Yeah.
If we look at ideas without sorting them into better and worse, how
can we think at all?
How can we help you figure out how to unschool better without talking
about the ideas you have now?
If all the ideas in the world are equal, why have discussions at all?
-=-Perhaps the word "heartbroken" is actually an
interpretation of a deep feeling of sadness and that is what is present
when I observe my son's constant playing of video games.-=-
Had you called it grief or discomfort or sadness, people would still
have said "get over it," and it still would have seemed melodramatic.
-=- If my son were
spending hours watching birds or ants I would feel joyful because I
have a belief that a deep connection with nature can lead us to an
understanding of ourselves and how we fit into the ecology of the
planet.-=-
If your joy and your heartbreak are contingent on his actions,
you're not in a healthy place regarding your son. It might help to
look at a couple of definitions of codependency. The clearer you are
on your own feelings, the better mom you will be.
-=- I trust nature's influence on my son.-=-
While that sounds good, it doesn't really mean much.
Nature influences people to be violent pretty effectively all around
us. I'm guessing you're thinking of an idealized peaceful Snow-White-
with-birds vision of nature, not a coyote killing baby rabbits
moment. One is natural. One is fantasy.
-=-I don;t know much about
the person that created the video game that leaves such a powerful
impression on my son.-=-
Find out. I'm guessing you didn't actually follow the links people
provided, but if you would consider renting and watching the special
that was on PBS about video games, you would know more about many
things in the world, and about what kinds of people have the
capability and skills and imagination to design those games.
-=- Am I to trust that because he is drawn to it
that it is good. -=-
Do you want him to trust you when you say that it's bad?
Instead of thinking in terms of "trust," how about learning, and
choices?
http://sandradodd.com/choice
http://sandradodd.com/option
-=- I have trouble with that because he has
a huge attraction to sugar and eats way more of if it than I feel is
healthy - so do I trust that sugar is good for him because he wants to
eat so much of it?-=-
http://sandradodd.com/food
http://sandradodd.com/t/economics
That second link is about TV, but the principle works with food and
video games just as well.
Sandra
judgement isn't it? -=-
Yeah.
If we look at ideas without sorting them into better and worse, how
can we think at all?
How can we help you figure out how to unschool better without talking
about the ideas you have now?
If all the ideas in the world are equal, why have discussions at all?
-=-Perhaps the word "heartbroken" is actually an
interpretation of a deep feeling of sadness and that is what is present
when I observe my son's constant playing of video games.-=-
Had you called it grief or discomfort or sadness, people would still
have said "get over it," and it still would have seemed melodramatic.
-=- If my son were
spending hours watching birds or ants I would feel joyful because I
have a belief that a deep connection with nature can lead us to an
understanding of ourselves and how we fit into the ecology of the
planet.-=-
If your joy and your heartbreak are contingent on his actions,
you're not in a healthy place regarding your son. It might help to
look at a couple of definitions of codependency. The clearer you are
on your own feelings, the better mom you will be.
-=- I trust nature's influence on my son.-=-
While that sounds good, it doesn't really mean much.
Nature influences people to be violent pretty effectively all around
us. I'm guessing you're thinking of an idealized peaceful Snow-White-
with-birds vision of nature, not a coyote killing baby rabbits
moment. One is natural. One is fantasy.
-=-I don;t know much about
the person that created the video game that leaves such a powerful
impression on my son.-=-
Find out. I'm guessing you didn't actually follow the links people
provided, but if you would consider renting and watching the special
that was on PBS about video games, you would know more about many
things in the world, and about what kinds of people have the
capability and skills and imagination to design those games.
-=- Am I to trust that because he is drawn to it
that it is good. -=-
Do you want him to trust you when you say that it's bad?
Instead of thinking in terms of "trust," how about learning, and
choices?
http://sandradodd.com/choice
http://sandradodd.com/option
-=- I have trouble with that because he has
a huge attraction to sugar and eats way more of if it than I feel is
healthy - so do I trust that sugar is good for him because he wants to
eat so much of it?-=-
http://sandradodd.com/food
http://sandradodd.com/t/economics
That second link is about TV, but the principle works with food and
video games just as well.
Sandra
Schuyler
> Calling my feeling of Heartbrokenness melodramatic is, well, aSure is. I judge lots of things. Gosh, I can't count how many I've judged
> judgement isn't it?
today. I judged some food as good for the compost and some plastic as not
recyclable. I judged the weather as a bit cool so I put on a turtleneck. I
judged the dishes as not clean enough to eat off of, so I put them in a pile
to be washed. I judged dinner as edible, so I ate it.
> Perhaps the word "heartbroken" is actually anThen read Kelly's words:
> interpretation of a deep feeling of sadness and that is what is present
> when I observe my son's constant playing of video games.
"Change your feelings. They're yours to change.
Your feelings will not change your child's. Well, not in a good way.
Your negative feelings could make him less than or stupid or wasteful.
Better than your feelings about him and his interests are positive and
encouraging: he'll respond positively and encouraged!"
> If my son wereYou know you can't make that deep connection for him, right? You know that a
> spending hours watching birds or ants I would feel joyful because I
> have a belief that a deep connection with nature can lead us to an
> understanding of ourselves and how we fit into the ecology of the
> planet.
deep connection with something, with anything, is a personal thing, not a
public one, right? So, do you believe that if you exclude all other things,
if you do as teachers have been known to do, and black the windows so he
can't see outside of what you want him to see, he will inevitably forge a
deep connection with nature? What if by focusing on nature at the exclusion
of other things he enjoys you end up making him see nature as an oppressive,
negative experience?
And to clarify, my example of ant watching and bird watching was to
demonstrate that what may seem like sitting still and staring at nothing may
be a very deep and thoughtful experience.
>I trust nature's influence on my son.Nature's a pretty big thing to trust without examining that trust. If a puma
were coming towards me, I wouldn't trust its influence, or that of diptheria
or botflies. Every month nature tells me that I should get pregnant, unless
I already am. But I don't trust that, I trust far more my feeling that two
children is what I want right now.
> I don;t know much aboutIf you watch the game, if you play the game, you will know far more about
> the person that created the video game that leaves such a powerful
> impression on my son.
the impression it is making. And even something about the perspective of the
creator.
> Am I to trust that because he is drawn to itWhat I am suggesting you trust is that your son knows when something is
> that it is good.
interesting. You are arguing that there is no value in video games. Your son
definitely has found something valuable in video games. Maybe you should
examine the thing that he finds valuable before dismissing it.
> I have trouble with that because he hasYes, but that is a whole 'nother ball of wax and Linnaea wants me to come
> a huge attraction to sugar and eats way more of if it than I feel is
> healthy - so do I trust that sugar is good for him because he wants to
> eat so much of it?
put her to bed.
G'night.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=--=-Calling my feeling of Heartbrokenness melodramatic is, well, a
judgement isn't it? -=--=-
I'm thinking about this again, still.
Moms who have judged their children's interests bad, wrong, violent
and harmful seem to really want to turn around and have other moms
accept that non-judgmentally.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
judgement isn't it? -=--=-
I'm thinking about this again, still.
Moms who have judged their children's interests bad, wrong, violent
and harmful seem to really want to turn around and have other moms
accept that non-judgmentally.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Paula Sjogerman
On Oct 7, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Dede Amescua wrote:
clearly is good for him in some way, otherwise he wouldn't want it.
My son eats WAY more sugar than I would and sometimes watching him
makes me a little queasy, but it doesn't do anything bad to him at
all. No cavities, no lack of appetite for healthier foods, no
stomachaches. Why would I stop him? That very issue is a good
reminder for me about how he and I are two separate people.
Paula
> That is an awakening for me - to trust that my sonIt can be both not "good" for him and also not "bad" for him. Or, it
> does know what is best for him. I have trouble with that because he
> has
> a huge attraction to sugar and eats way more of if it than I feel is
> healthy - so do I trust that sugar is good for him because he wants to
> eat so much of it?
clearly is good for him in some way, otherwise he wouldn't want it.
My son eats WAY more sugar than I would and sometimes watching him
makes me a little queasy, but it doesn't do anything bad to him at
all. No cavities, no lack of appetite for healthier foods, no
stomachaches. Why would I stop him? That very issue is a good
reminder for me about how he and I are two separate people.
Paula
sandalmom
>****If my son were
> > spending hours watching birds or ants I would feel joyful becausean
> > I have a belief that a deep connection with nature can lead us to
> > understanding of ourselves and how we fit into the ecology of theImagine if someone who could exert power over you told you that you
> > planet. ****
couldn't explore nature because you were not up to snuff on your
computer skills. No matter how much you spoke and demonstrated that
experiencing the outdoors was important to you, it was viewed as a
waste of time, no value. How would you feel about your relationship
with that person?
Also, if a you have an interest that is important to you, then engage
in it. Let it make you happy and fulfilled. And by all means share
what you find interesting with your family. Then be respectful of
their passions, and find out what they enjoy about their world.
Resentment leads to disconnection. Respect fosters connections.
Christa
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: christa.mente@...
Imagine if someone who could exert power over you told you that you
couldn't explore nature because you were not up to snuff on your
computer skills. No matter how much you spoke and demonstrated that
experiencing the outdoors was important to you, it was viewed as a
waste of time, no value. How would you feel about your relationship
with that person?
Also, if a you have an interest that is important to you, then engage
in it. Let it make you happy and fulfilled. And by all means share
what you find interesting with your family. Then be respectful of
their passions, and find out what they enjoy about their world.
Resentment leads to disconnection. Respect fosters connections.
--=-=-
Maybe go rent The Dead Poets' Society with Robin Willliams.
It illustrates this point tragically.
It's was *WE* find joy in that makes us joyful.
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
From: christa.mente@...
Imagine if someone who could exert power over you told you that you
couldn't explore nature because you were not up to snuff on your
computer skills. No matter how much you spoke and demonstrated that
experiencing the outdoors was important to you, it was viewed as a
waste of time, no value. How would you feel about your relationship
with that person?
Also, if a you have an interest that is important to you, then engage
in it. Let it make you happy and fulfilled. And by all means share
what you find interesting with your family. Then be respectful of
their passions, and find out what they enjoy about their world.
Resentment leads to disconnection. Respect fosters connections.
--=-=-
Maybe go rent The Dead Poets' Society with Robin Willliams.
It illustrates this point tragically.
It's was *WE* find joy in that makes us joyful.
~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
Sandra Dodd
-=-
It's was *WE* find joy in that makes us joyful.-=-
I'm guessing Kelly meant
It's what we find joy in that makes us joyful.
Many moms have developed new interests and learned new things from
their children's interests. Even if you don't get interested in
playing a certain game, be willing to accept that your child does,
already has, and will in the future discover things you didn't show
him. Be a person with whom he will want to share those things.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's was *WE* find joy in that makes us joyful.-=-
I'm guessing Kelly meant
It's what we find joy in that makes us joyful.
Many moms have developed new interests and learned new things from
their children's interests. Even if you don't get interested in
playing a certain game, be willing to accept that your child does,
already has, and will in the future discover things you didn't show
him. Be a person with whom he will want to share those things.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
"In nature he finds lots to do. But at home video games occupy most of his interest. "
I watched those words dance through my head today as David, Simon, Linnaea and I took Pickle for a walk. Simon rarely ever goes on the dog walks. He prefers to stay at home. Today he went. And I caught myself saying to David, "He has such a good time when he comes, I think he forgets how much fun it is." And I stopped, and I thought, and I said "Maybe he has such a good time when he comes because he doesn't have to go when he doesn't want to."
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I watched those words dance through my head today as David, Simon, Linnaea and I took Pickle for a walk. Simon rarely ever goes on the dog walks. He prefers to stay at home. Today he went. And I caught myself saying to David, "He has such a good time when he comes, I think he forgets how much fun it is." And I stopped, and I thought, and I said "Maybe he has such a good time when he comes because he doesn't have to go when he doesn't want to."
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
me that I'd always wanted to learn to do it, and so I'm learning.
Now she's into skateboarding. I'm getting my 13yr old stepson to help
me on this one. We spent the morning at the skatepark. I have decided
to look for information on the internet about skateboarding - I don't
even speak the language! He would say "I'm trying to learn to Ollie
(sp?)" and I'd say "huh?" I'm learning something new *because* my kids
are interested. I'm not intending to learn to skateboard (at the
moment), but I'm certainly going to learn more *about* it.
---Meredith
>> Many moms have developed new interests and learned new things fromThis summer my 5yr old dd was all excited about jugglers. It reminded
> their children's interests.
me that I'd always wanted to learn to do it, and so I'm learning.
Now she's into skateboarding. I'm getting my 13yr old stepson to help
me on this one. We spent the morning at the skatepark. I have decided
to look for information on the internet about skateboarding - I don't
even speak the language! He would say "I'm trying to learn to Ollie
(sp?)" and I'd say "huh?" I'm learning something new *because* my kids
are interested. I'm not intending to learn to skateboard (at the
moment), but I'm certainly going to learn more *about* it.
---Meredith
Kelli Traaseth
-=-What other outside
activities do you do beside be 'in nature'? Being exposed to new
stuff is what will generate new interests.-=-
***If they're being "exposed" to new stuff just to generate new
interests, though, they could easily decide to resist and avoid the
new stuff, long for video games, and not trust or desire time with mom.***
Yes to the second quote there and,,, playing video games can also generate new interests.
My son loves video games too, all types, and in playing those games I've been amazed at the other things he's learned about and been interested in, again, stemming from those video games. If I would have stepped in and said, "that's enough",, bam, it would have stopped that learning circle right there and his trust in me would have been diminished.
A few things he's become interested in from video games: History, especially world history; Geography (from the research into different battles and wars), Statistics, he's an amazing statatician, really. He can look at information and formulate evaluations like I've never seen before. Video games have also led him outside to play. He'll run around outside with friends or his sisters acting out scenes from different games.
He does do other things too, but video games is a huge passion of his. Its one thing that can keep his mind going. He loves thinking about things, he loves figuring things out and he likes to keep busy. Video games do all those things.
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
activities do you do beside be 'in nature'? Being exposed to new
stuff is what will generate new interests.-=-
***If they're being "exposed" to new stuff just to generate new
interests, though, they could easily decide to resist and avoid the
new stuff, long for video games, and not trust or desire time with mom.***
Yes to the second quote there and,,, playing video games can also generate new interests.
My son loves video games too, all types, and in playing those games I've been amazed at the other things he's learned about and been interested in, again, stemming from those video games. If I would have stepped in and said, "that's enough",, bam, it would have stopped that learning circle right there and his trust in me would have been diminished.
A few things he's become interested in from video games: History, especially world history; Geography (from the research into different battles and wars), Statistics, he's an amazing statatician, really. He can look at information and formulate evaluations like I've never seen before. Video games have also led him outside to play. He'll run around outside with friends or his sisters acting out scenes from different games.
He does do other things too, but video games is a huge passion of his. Its one thing that can keep his mind going. He loves thinking about things, he loves figuring things out and he likes to keep busy. Video games do all those things.
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]