. Get people out of the cult of school.
Rebecca Allen: I didn't know which way was north well until I moved out of Louisiana where very little is in a grid pattern.
Robin Bentley: Snort, Jill!
Sandra Dodd: I spent most of two months not knowing which way was north this summer. :-)
Rebecca Allen: Oh my. Unschooling bootcamp.
JennyC: oh no!
Sandra Dodd: I think a deschooling retreat would be like "don't say frying pan; don't even think 'frying pan'"
Robin Bentley: But this was a person who lived in California who didn't know that Canada was north of her.
Sandra Dodd: That was an exercise I learned in school. :-)
Robin Bentley: Of course what do you think of? Frying pan.
Jill Parmer: Cast iron skillet.
JennyC: I doubt Chamille could point to north, but she does know that Canada is north of us
Robin Bentley: You can't not focus on something.
Jill Parmer: Can't get it out of my head.
Chris: Another reason to rush to get unschooling -- you may not have as long as you think you do, with your kids. And, I'm not even talking about if you or they die.
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Robin Bentley: Yes, Chris. You may not have as long as you think you do.
Chris: Don't think about pink elephants, don't think about them now. Thinking about pink elephants? That is what I thought you'd think.
Robin Bentley: :-)
Sandra Dodd: I think the deschooling info on my site (including links to other sites) is good, and sufficient to get people from schooling to unschooling.
Robin Bentley: We just need to get people to read it!
JIHONG/joy: Schooling learning and real life learning are really different. I am relearning the real world way with my children. I think the school way is easier once you have real world experience
Sandra Dodd: I also think half or more of people who come to unschooling think it doesn't apply to them, that they won't need it, that they get it already.
Sandra Dodd: Reading it doesn't do diddly, robin.
Sandra Dodd: Welll, not reading it by itself. :-)
Robin Bentley: Doing it helps.
Rebecca Allen: Everyone who went to school needs to deschool to unschool.
Sandra Dodd: A month from now, we'll be on the deschooling page of the big book. :-)
Robin Bentley: Sandra, it seems to me that some people think they can unschool, just like that. They think it's easy and it just happens. It's not remotely true.
Jill Parmer: I liked the idea in book about rushing to get it... Is that you can always go back to schoolishness, but once you go to schoolishness you can't go back to learning that thing gradually and naturally.
Sandra Dodd: Some of the coolest costume details I've ever seen I found in illustrations in books that weren't about costumes. One was in a cookbook. One on a calendar.
Chris: Maybe you could break down different parts of your website into pamphlets people could mail order (or paypal order.) Sometimes I think people trust something when it's printed and bound more than on the internet.
JennyC: Lyla is a very good example of a mom who got it fast so her kids could benefit from it!
Sandra Dodd: Chris, I have a project started (just started a year ago, and still "just started") for "The little book of unschooling."
JennyC: Sandra did that with her book, break it all down into sections
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Sandra Dodd: Figured it could be the cheaty little pocket-copy.
JennyC: fun Sandra!
JIHONG/joy: Robin, can unschooling be easy and up running fast for our unschooled children to their children?
Sandra Dodd: How did Lyla move toward it, do you know? Did she do something we can recommend to other people (other than decide to do it and then do it)?
JennyC: She has been involved in attachment parenting ideas and parenting classes and things of that nature for a long time
Jill Parmer: I thought is was cool that Luke could read World of Warcraft written font, that he did not need to start with a very simple font.
JennyC: she jumped with both feet forward and just did it
reneecabatic: can y'all help me "Get" another layer of the unschooling onion?
Sandra Dodd: Oh. Speaking of projects, we ordered the magnets but went with slow shipping to save money, so if we have any left after Good Vibrations, I can sell some. And if they come out pretty (words not cut off or needing revision of the art), we can order some more. But they'll be available for general sale by mid-September, I think.
Jill Parmer: Shoot, Renee.
Rebecca Allen: Wasn't it about her daughter being bullied at school or something like that as the impetus.
Robin Bentley: One of the things Ross uses in his coaching program is the competence model: unconscious incompetence - you don't know what you don't know; conscious incompetence - you know what you don't know; conscious competence - you know what you know; unconscious competence - you automatically do what you know without thinking.
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JennyC: she got heavily involved with other unschoolers and went to conferences, went to fun outings, got out of the house and usual routines
reneecabatic: when I was 10 years old (that's 5th grade , right?) I decided that I would learn everything-no one would know more than me. I was very competitive.....I think that explains why I notice other 10 year olds knowledge base
Sandra Dodd: Ah. That's what made it easy for me, too, Jenny. Five years of intensive parenting and self-help stuff, following years of involvement in the SCA and alternative ed.
Sandra Dodd: I had all the parts, and just had to assemble them toward Kirby-world.
Robin Bentley: Thought I'd throw that in there - gotta go on a burrito run. Be back shortly.
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Sandra Dodd: Jihong asked this: ": Robin, can unschooling be easy and up running fast for our unschooled children to their children?"
reneecabatic: my kids are 10 and they are different from me.
Sandra Dodd: I think if my own kids unschool their kids, it will be very easy for them.
Chris: Our kids will hopefully have unconscious competence when it comes to unschooling their kids
reneecabatic: they don't have a desperate need to know all and prove it-they aren't competitive like I was
Sandra Dodd: Renee, I think that's one of those things. (Saw it the first time; sorry I didn't comment.)
Sandra Dodd: They're not competitive, but your ten-year-old self is probably whispering to you "But what about...." or "How come you're not made at THEM?"
reneecabatic: they have total confidence that they will learn to read when they are ready
Sandra Dodd: I can get jealous of my kids.
Sandra Dodd: I recognize it, and it kind of amuses me.
reneecabatic: they aren't worried or in a hurry to read
Sandra Dodd: And I speak to myself and say "Funny you're jealous; not cool it." (Not in those words.)
Sandra Dodd: More like "don't be a dork" and "Cool that they get to experience life this way!"
reneecabatic: so is it my 10 yr old stressed out self that is jealous?
Chris: are you jealous?
JennyC: my kids are so much cooler than I am!
Sandra Dodd: -=- or "How come you're not mad at THEM?" ("mad" not "made"
reneecabatic: jealous that they can be so self assured and confident and spend their time immersed in what they are passionate about?
Sandra Dodd: Possibly, Renee.
Jill Parmer: Could be. It'd be easy to be jealous of a calm and cool kid, like Xander and XuMei. They exude coolness.
Sandra Dodd: That you believed knowledge was important, factoid-knowledge, and you probably identified with that
Sandra Dodd: Decided that THAT was what made you smart, worthy, valuable.
reneecabatic: Chris- maybe, I am kind of a spazz and they are so flipping awesome!!
Sandra Dodd: So maybe subconsciously you're thinking they're risking not having those aspects? (And maybe not; maybe I'm full o'poo)
Sandra Dodd: Jealous that Holly can have a very cool boyfriend, and be cavalier about it.
Sandra Dodd: Jealous that Marty can be home when I was already out of college. Home and safe and happy and not being shamed.
Chris: maybe you're jealous that they have each other to feel normal against? And you wouldn't have had that when you were ten?
Jill Parmer: I like being near the juju of cool people. So for instance, I'd want to learn from your kids, adn if they can be self assured and confident and immersed in their passions, then I think I should do that myself. Learning from their example.
Sandra Dodd: Nothing I had or did at Marty's age lasted or was good for me, really. I was spinning my wheels in a marriage, a job, taking care of kids that were NOT my kids, that is NOT my longterm marriage, that was teaching jr. high when I was 22 years old (and 21-26, but Marty's age, I was going to work every day)
Jill Parmer: OR revel in your spazziness. Because that is SO cool too.!
reneecabatic: when i watched my shows as a 10 year old just like XuMei does I felt like I was wasting time that I should have been studying
reneecabatic: XuMei does NOT think she is wasting time-she knows she is learning or relaxing and that both those things are important
Rebecca Allen: Thanks for the chat. Off to a stop for doll making supplies and to go to a play date.
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JessicaO: funny that we're talking about this... i'm taking an online art workshop and the first assignment is to recognize our gremlin...
reneecabatic: bye Rebecca
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JessicaO: that voice that says "not good enough"
Chris: My "not good enough" voice almost always is heard speaking about my parenting... :-(
Jill Parmer: Luke is rewatching all the Naruto and Shippeden shows, and the things he's telling me about the story and about what he missed the first time through is really neat. He's got so many thoughts about it all.
Sandra Dodd: I think moving to a by-the-moment analysis from a whole-life analysis can sometimes be useful.
Jill Parmer: Explain more?
Sandra Dodd: Sometimes "good enough" is good enough, but mine is usually about housekeeping. And that was just going to be a mess again later. If I think I wish I would clean up the sewing room (my thought of the past two days)
Sandra Dodd: I CAN clean it up, or at least a little of it.
Sandra Dodd: But I've cleaned it up before, and the piles come back anyway.
Sandra Dodd: If a mom has a good exchange with a kid, THAT moment/conversation should be seen as good.
Sandra Dodd: And not averaged in to the past year.
Sandra Dodd: But maybe compared to the goal and the average, and if it's between the average and the goal, good! And if it's below average, not good.
JessicaO: and talks about doing affirmations to
JessicaO: turn it around to a positive point of view
Sandra Dodd: And try to do better the next chance.
JessicaO: (sorry evan popped in to talk)
Sandra Dodd: Like a ratchet wrench, if you're lucky, where your only direction is better.
JessicaO: (and now he's going to take a shower)
Sandra Dodd: The art teacher is talking about affirmations?
Sandra Dodd: I think affirmations can be cool.
Sandra Dodd: But they can also sometimes be used to cover a lack of progress or attention to detail.
JennyC: affirmations always make me think of Stewart Smalley
JessicaO: yep, take the gremlin is saying you have no talent or.. your gremlin is saying you're a lousy parent...
Sandra Dodd: (Not in an art class; not thinking about that.)
Sandra Dodd: Voices in your head?
JessicaO: you basically have to tell the gremlin to shut up or something
Sandra Dodd: "I've heard that too long," I thought to my mom and my granny."
JessicaO: yeah, voices in my head
Sandra Dodd: Too much now. TOo many years.
JessicaO: could be jealousy, you see another parent doing something with their kids and the gremlin starts in
JennyC: it's an interesting assumption that the art teacher makes, that most of her students are going to have issues
JessicaO: the class is based on a book called Raw Art Journalling
JessicaO: by Quinn McDonald, I can get the amazon link if anyone wants it
Sandra Dodd: I think everyone has issues.
JennyC: well, yes, I guess so!
JessicaO: it's not an academic art class, it's more art journalling.. i'm wanting to learn a bit more about collage, get ideas for collage and a friend
Sandra Dodd: And if issues keep someone from being calm, or sleeping well, or having a peaceful childbirth, or to do art bravely, it's worth the coach/counsellor knowing and helping!
JessicaO: recommended this yahoo group and they're doing a workshop based on this book
JennyC: so, a large part of getting it faster, might be to work through ones issues faster
Chris: I wonder if unschooling our kids can lessen their propensity to have issues?
JessicaO: i actually came up with my gremlin as a partner rather than an adversary, be interesting to see what the workshop leader says about that :)
Sandra Dodd: Here are some affirmations I collected but I want to make a disclaimer first. They helped me recover from co-dependency in my 20's, from hoping I could help my mom stop drinking.
reneecabatic: Yes! JennyC- that is so important
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.com/affirmations
JessicaO: chris, I'd like to hope so
Sandra Dodd: It doesn't make them true. Thinking them doesn't create truth. They counteract negative messages we might be carrying around.
Sandra Dodd: Jessica, that's the problem with using a cutesy term like "gremlin" instead of talking about negative messages inside us.
Sandra Dodd: Or unexamined hurts.
Chris: Because that is what it seems I'm spending a lot of my parenting energy on, sometimes seemingly to no avail
Sandra Dodd: I don't know what issues unschoolers will have, or what bad dreams they will have, though Holly told me one this morning. It wasn't about school. :-)
Sandra Dodd: Chris, spending parenting energy trying to keep them from having issues? :-)
JennyC: chamille's bad dreams used to be about the movie "Idiocracy"
Sandra Dodd: That it was true? That she was in it?
Sandra Dodd: I like that movie.
Chris: or dealing with the issues that they are having in spite of unschooling
JennyC: yes, that it was true
JennyC: very nightmarish for her!
reneecabatic: OMG- amazing- my always unschooled kids don't have nightmares about getting lost at school or not having their homework done like I did! thanks for that!
JennyC: she watches all kinds of horror, but that movie terrified her!
Sandra Dodd: Or getting on the schoolbus and discovering they don't have enough clothes on
Chris: renee -- I know, I've shared those school anxiety dreams with Zach -- although I think he's maybe had a couple now since being in college
reneecabatic: or standing up to speak to the class and forgetting every thought in my head
Chris: I used to be lost walking around campus, or trying to find my car
Sandra Dodd: So back to the topic.
reneecabatic: actually- that wasn't a nightmare- that really happened! :-)
Sandra Dodd: People can't wait forever to get unschooling.
Sandra Dodd: It is possible to wait too long, or get it too slowly.
Chris: The sooner you get it the better
JennyC: we were just talking about fear... fear definitely holds people back!
Sandra Dodd: It's possible to think something is good enough, and to "affirm" one's "good enough" and to be stuck there.
JessicaO: in our case we need a 2nd vehicle so we can go out & DO things a lot more often than once a week and weekends
Sandra Dodd: Fear holds people back and deschooling can/should help them get past that fear.
JennyC: that might be touching the edge, dipping your big toe in, but not really going swimming
Sandra Dodd: Once a week and weekends is more than some families do, so I hope you really do those outings when you can, Jessica! I wish every unschooling family did something cool twoce a week.
Sandra Dodd: twice a week.
JennyC: that's been our goal, once or twice a week, get out and do something cool!
JennyC: we have lots of cool things here too!
Sandra Dodd: 180 cool things a year. (Don't have to be out.) But really different, interesting things, even briefly. 180.
Chris: Zoe told me last spring, that she'd always wanted a trampoline, more than anything int he world. (but she'd never told me before then.) Rick and she are going to pick one up later this afternoon!
JessicaO: i've been taking reuven (10) to the swimming pool whenever we get the car.. then we might stop someplace for a snack & talk about "everything under the sun"
Sandra Dodd: That sounds fun.
JessicaO: the others have just wanted to hang out with their friends this summer
Chris: Rick got it in a trade with his buddy for some graphic design help
JessicaO: sunday we went to 6 flags, that was fun... gary & the older ones did ALL the roller coasters and R & I did various rides together
JIHONG/joy: Hehe, I went kayaking myself. Recharging my energy :)
JessicaO: we did roaring rapids 4x because I was mad that i came out nearly bone dry the first time on it.. lol
Chris: Don't tell Zoe, it's a surprise, but I got tickets for her to see Wicked! Another dream come true!
JessicaO: jihong, that's cool! what kind of water?
JessicaO: cool, chris!
Jill Parmer: Another thing I really liked in the book was the idea of a kid discovering things on their own, and that adding to their sense of being capable.
JIHONG/joy: Sandra, why not start a cool things list, everyone car report the cool things they did and tried, so we can get some ideas and inspiration. I myself need more specifics than theory
JessicaO: so part of getting it is... doing cool things with the kids
Chris: Jihong, Rick and Zach went on a very long and unfortunate but sometimes funny kayaking jaunt attempting to circumnavigate my mom's island once. Lots of stories from that experience!
JIHONG/joy: Ocean water, in Victoria BC
JessicaO: jihong, good idea... i also like when people talk about what they've eaten, gives me new ideas for shopping
Chris: nude beaches and sunburns were involved
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.com/typical
Sandra Dodd: Lots of cool things in there, though it's not "a cool things" list.
Sandra Dodd: It is. :-)
JessicaO: i can look right at something in the store & not see something cool
Sandra Dodd: That can take practice.
JennyC: I love going to thrift stores with Chamille because she has a magpie eye
JessicaO: but if someone mentions something i'll know i've seen it so many times before
Sandra Dodd: Jihong, I think a cool-things list might be difficult for low-income families.
JIHONG/joy: Haha, Chris
JennyC: it makes everything cooler!
JessicaO: jenny, i'd love to go with chamille to a thrift store! love going with my guys!
Sandra Dodd: Maybe think of a witness, if it would help, Jessica. If you have a creative friend, artistic, maybe go to the store thinking "What would Annette" (or someone) see in here?
JIHONG/joy: Sandra, don't have to need spend money...
JessicaO: yeah... i know one time Gary & I were looking at the packaged lunch snacks & could get more of the same food without the fancy packaging
JessicaO: we did just that when we went to the fireworks
reneecabatic: magpie eye! love it-chris has it and brings home the coolest dirt cheap things!
JIHONG/joy: Going to thrifty store was a cool thing for me, learned from you. I had never been to the saver store on Maui before u
Sandra Dodd: Garage sales can be fun. If you stop where nothing even looks good, you might find one odd little thing that sparks thoughts or ideas.
Sandra Dodd: Jihong, just yesterday I saw that one curtain that I wished I'd gotten all four of. :-) But I'm glad to have the one! I thought they were sheets or something at first.
Sandra Dodd: Nice cloth.
JennyC: I got a very large roll of wall paper trim at a garage sale once
JIHONG/joy: It is like treasure hunt for us
Sandra Dodd: Even if you don't buy anything, there's a lot to see and think about in there, in thrift stores or antique stores.
JennyC: it was one that had junk
reneecabatic: i think the folks who price things don't even know what they have in their hands but Chris knows what its worth and he gets a thrill from getting stuff so cheap
JessicaO: walmart sometimes has closeout items.. got a hula hoop for $2.50 that i think was $5 before
Sandra Dodd: Recently I got a pillow that unfolds to be a quilt for one. Then you can roll it back up, fasten the top part back around it, and it's a pillow. My neice says it's called "a quillow."
Chris: Zoe loved walking through a huge furniture store -- she loved seeing how they decorated and all the different styles of sectionals. She especially liked reclining on the comfy couches. One near us offers cookies and lemonade to all their customers too. We should go there more often just to browse.
JennyC: it is!
Sandra Dodd: I think thrift stores can be a good deschooling exercise.
JennyC: Margaux has one
Sandra Dodd: It could be as good as thinking sticks, at least!
JennyC: antique stores are great too!
Sandra Dodd: I could take people on thrift store outings as (what was recommended? A retreat?)
JIHONG/joy: I am from another culture, so many obvious things to you are not so obvious to me, like the ivory soap thing:)) would love a daily cool thing inspiration
JessicaO: sandra, for us, walmart can be like a fun museum
JennyC: thrift stores in small towns are often the very best of the best
JessicaO: jihong, what about ivory soap?
Sandra Dodd: In a thrift store, they could pick up an object and I could say "math, geography" and put it down and they could pick up another: "art, engineering, history" and after a bit they could call connections on things I held up. :-)
Sandra Dodd: I was playing piano from a book I got in a thrift store in Iowa, passing through a small town when Kirby needed the bathroom, 15 years ago.
JIHONG/joy: Ivory soap that floats. Soap sculpture, microwave it. New things we tried and loved
Sandra Dodd: Sunday, I was playing from that.
reneecabatic: Ivory soap is great for whittling
Chris: The fact that you remember where you got it is impressive to me, Sandra
JessicaO: a few years ago i found some tie dyed curtains... lost them in the fire tho
JennyC: my great grand mother had a thrift store. If she liked you, she'd let you have it cheap or free, if she didn't, she'd make you pay more. Nothing had price tags on them, you had to ask
Sandra Dodd: I'm sure if you could take one of us to China, Jihong, we'd be noticing cool things you hadn't thought were cool before. That happened to me all the time in the UK. People couldn't figure out what I was taking photos of. Much of it was what was relative to where I live. Not the US, but New Mexico.
JessicaO: couple of days ago i went with Harrison to a thrift store & he found 5 pairs of pants his size that he likes... 50 cents a pair (special sale that day or this week)
Sandra Dodd: Plants will grow AND BLOOM in what seems like no dirt at all, in England. On rock walls, in architectural details, behind drain pipes.
JIHONG/joy: What's whittling?
Sandra Dodd: But Jessica, you're talking about Walmart and saving money on jeans, rather than surprising finds that tied in to learning opportunities.
Sandra Dodd: Carving little figures with a pocket-knife.
JessicaO: i meant we found 50 cent jeans in a thrift store.. Harrison is all about fashion related stuff right now
Sandra Dodd: Small knife blade just 2-3" and soft wood.
JIHONG/joy: Then let's go to china :)
Sandra Dodd: I'll go.
reneecabatic: me too
JennyC: my dad showed me how to make a whistle out of saplings
Sandra Dodd: I'll need an electrical adaptor for my camera, and internet access.
JennyC: I still remember how to do it, but I haven't shown my own kids
JIHONG/joy: Ok, let's play with the idea, and we can make it happen
Sandra Dodd: But, Jihong, next time you go to see your brothers, you could take me ghost-like in your head. What would Sandra see? That's how you could look at things.
Sandra Dodd: I don't really need to go.
Chris: define "internet access" lol? In China.
JessicaO: jenny, i made a pennywhistle out of plumbing pipe a couple of years ago... was a low D, hard to play but cool deep sound
Sandra Dodd: I mean wifi. They have internet.
Chris: I know -- just notoriously censored -- but isn't internet censored to some extent just about everyewhere?
JIHONG/joy: Easy, Sandra. I still remember you took a pic at the store upcountry. To me, all old stuff with no value :))
reneecabatic: gonna go now-thanks for the awesome chat and helping me to peel back layers and get more of the unschooling onion :-)
Sandra Dodd: The value was the history of it!
Sandra Dodd: Bye, Renee. Have a happy day & week!
JessicaO: take care, renee!
JennyC: bye Renee!
reneecabatic: thanks - you too!!!
JessicaO: sandra, earlier you said that you wish every unschooling family did something cool twice a week..
JIHONG/joy: No Facebook access in china no YouTube. But people know how can access
Sandra Dodd: Jihong, my desktop on the computer is that sunrise when we were freezing at the not-a-crater. There's a subtle reflection on one side that proves (to me) I took it from inside the ranger station. :-)
Sandra Dodd: I don't need facebook.
Sandra Dodd: Just e-mail and my own blog.
JessicaO: my guys are wanting more contact with friends... evan's wanting to go to high school mostly so he can hang out with his friends...
Sandra Dodd: I think if every unschooling family does (consciously, on purpose) two very cool things a week, that they'll be ahead of school.
JIHONG/joy: So can we start the list request, Sandra? More people will reond
JessicaO: i'm feeling a bit sad that we haven't been able to take the boys more places to meet other kids
Sandra Dodd: Respond with cool things, you mean?
JIHONG/joy: Respond to u than to me. I run out if ideas now and then
Jill Parmer: Thoughts, opinions.... On a local regular homeschooling list a mom wrote that she did the required (by the state) testing. She said she now saw their weaknesses, and would teach to that this year. Then she said she mostly unschools. And I just about spit my tea on my computer screen. Since this is an regular homeschooling list, I don't feel like I need to say anything, but I have a hard time letting that sit there, in case there are really people that want to know more about unschooling. Thoughts about what I could/should do?
Sandra Dodd: Looking at the typical days might be idea-producing.
Sandra Dodd: But yeah, we could.
JIHONG/joy: Like, just stir mailing list, much better and manageable than the big book.
JennyC: just tell them that what they are doing isn't unschooling
Sandra Dodd: Other resources for that are books like "what to do with the kid on summer vacation" or "365 things to do in the car" and other lists that already exist, out there, in books at thrift stores.
JessicaO: harrison would want to go to school also, but he likes the older kids but wouldn't be allowed to go to high school.. hmm. the days i have the car, we could go pick evan up & hang out around the school some w/harrison
Sandra Dodd: You can't hang around a school, not legally, not during school hours.
Sandra Dodd: You could spy on them from the car, like a drive-in movie, maybe. :-)
JessicaO: hmm i meant outside... but we are allowed to go to lunch with them
JessicaO: that might not work with getting gary to his ride tho unless lunch is 11ish
Sandra Dodd: Jessica, having another car might be extra important if you live far from a town where kids can get public transportation or walk places.
Sandra Dodd: Their lives need to be better than they would be if they were in school.
JessicaO: yeah, i'm going to make that my priority this week
Sandra Dodd: And however parents can figure out to do that, they should.
JessicaO: we live about 10 miles from one town and 20 from the other
JIHONG/joy: A picture, an idea every day when I turn on my computer is easier than burying my head in 365 idea book. Also I love the stir list, because it is random, unexpected. Just like I like listening to the music in radio because I don't know what the next one will be :) strange?
JennyC: no, it's sensory input!
JessicaO: we've been having silly money issues lately.. gary's getting his paycheck garnished for something he's already paid back but "the system" isn't getting the message
JennyC: some people really need that!
Sandra Dodd: Jill, maybe you could say kids in school don't know all that either. BUT.... with my kids we played trivia games, and if I saw "weaknesses," I addressed them with strewing, sometimes. If they didn't know which way north was (to use an example from this chat, not from their actual lives) I would have put out a compass and a local map.
JessicaO: and last weekend we needed to replace 2 tires on the car.
Chris: Sandra - can you tell us more about what trivia games you play
Sandra Dodd: Not strange, Jihong. I've been listening to Pandora instead of my own iTunes because of that. Surprises.
Sandra Dodd: Played, years ago. Lately, though, Marty and friends (sometimes me, too) play a game called smart ass.
jihong with computer joined the chat
Sandra Dodd: Not a very nice name.
Sandra Dodd: There are some decks of cards for kids, and they had grade levels (1st grade, 2nd grade) but we ignored that.
jihong with computer: one of the reasons that I love travel is that somebody esle has done the strewing for me: everything is new :)
JessicaO: is it still available? (checking ebay)
Sandra Dodd: They were cards joined at one corner with a brad.
Sandra Dodd: But it's not important WHAT game; just trivia games. thrift stores have them.
Chris: I have a couple of those but don't pull them out because Zoe won't ignore the grade levels and she gets down on herself if she doens't know the answer
JessicaO: i think i know the cards you mean, held together at the top, shaped like fat bookmarks?
Sandra Dodd: But when they were little, we would play with those and pennies.
JessicaO: yeah we've come home w/games from the thrift stores
Sandra Dodd: And it was called "gambling." "Let's gamble," Kirby would say, or I would say.
Chris: I need to alter them
Sandra Dodd: They would always win, but they wouldn't win every question. :-)
Sandra Dodd: And it won't work with big kids. It worked with little kids.
Sandra Dodd: But that's what was closest to "a test". It was a game.
JessicaO: sometimes we'll just go through the questions (can't remember the game) without playing it properly
Chris: I wonder if they update Trivial Pursuit often -- I remember enjoying playing that a lot
Sandra Dodd: If I knew they wouldn't know, I wouldn't ask it. So between me and the game and their answers, I knew what they understood really well and what they didn't.
Sandra Dodd: Here's an example from Smart Ass. People answer when they know the answer, and if you guess wrong you go back (or something; I forget)
Sandra Dodd: **
Sandra Dodd: I am a female singer.
jihong with computer: sandra, do you think the knowledge base the paretns have will be a deciding factor for what would be exposed to the children
Sandra Dodd: I was born in Staten Island in 1980
Sandra Dodd: My backgroudn is Irish and Ecuadorean
Sandra Dodd: At age 12 (GUESS IF YOU KNOW) I was in the New Mickey Mouse Club.
JessicaO: that's the other thing about the school wanting "records".. i don't need them. I don't have 30-200 kids to keep track of, so i don't keep records
Sandra Dodd: In 2001, I made the top 20 in FHM's sexiest women poll.
JessicaO: i have an idea what my kids know
Chris: Christina Aguilara
Sandra Dodd: I sang "Reflection" in the Disney movie Mulan
Sandra Dodd: Right.
Sandra Dodd: So those games encourage discussion.
Sandra Dodd: HOW did the person know?
Sandra Dodd: And that can be helpful and friendly and fun.
JessicaO: and a lot of times my kids surprise me with what they know... they pick up a lot from tv
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.com/testing/gambling
Chris: cool, thanks! I'll look into Smart Ass and other trivia games
Sandra Dodd: There's where I wrote up about that game
JennyC: I've got to go and feed people! Thanks for the chat! Bye all!
Sandra Dodd: And here's more about trivia
Sandra Dodd: http://sandradodd.com/triviality
JessicaO: i'd watch tv more with them if more were captioned
JessicaO: bye jenny!
Chris: We have Chronology but Zoe doesn't like it -- too hard
Sandra Dodd: Okay, all. I'll be back next week and we can talk about Principles and Priorities, page 10-11
Chris: an old Trivial Pursuit game might be fun to mine for good questions
Sandra Dodd: Chris, play it differently, maybe.
Chris: Okay, thanks, bye!
Sandra Dodd: Sort cards by what she knows and doesn't, maybe.
Jill Parmer: There's a game called Dictionary, Chris.
Jill Parmer: You do it yourself with a dictionary, that's fun.
Chris: good ideas
Sandra Dodd: There will be a games night (probably more than one) at the ALL Unschooling gathering.
Chris: gotta get food for Zoe, thanks and bye!
Chris left the chat
Sandra Dodd: I really do want to play a game called Wise and Otherwise, which is like Dictionary but with proverbs from different places.
Jill Parmer: Bye all. Thanks for the chat.
Sandra Dodd: I like dictionary itself, too, and have played it lots.
Jill Parmer: What do you use for Wise and Otherwise?
Sandra Dodd: Thanks for being here, everybody!
Sandra Dodd: sunrise
Sandra Dodd: sorry.
JessicaO: take care! thanks for the chat & ideas & such!