advice please
homeschoolmd
Last year I made an effort to find homeschooled girls of similar ages
to my daughters to go on field trips and do some social things with.
We found a nice group of moms and girls and had some fun and
interesting times together.
One of the moms has decided she needs ways to motivate her daughter
to learn so she is starting a "Silk Roads" class. The plan is for
each girl to choose a region of the world, preferably along the silk
roads trade route, to research and write about and bring the
information to share with the group. The group will meet once a week
for this sharing of information as well as *fun* crafts, plays,
costume making and field trips.
I asked my girls if they wanted to participate. I told them that
they would have to do "homework". Allison said she would try it and
see if she liked it. Virginia said "sure".
This whole thing bothers me. The mom that is organizing it has said
numerous times that the girls are not interested in the world history
or geography aspects of the silk road but they are very excited about
the fun things and being together.
Allison would probably enjoy the world history part of it because she
*is* interested in that. Virginia likes doing projects and writing
so she would enjoy it. However, it really bothers me that this mom
is doing it to trick her daughter into learning.
How should I handle this in an unschooling way? I'd rather they
didn't go, on principle, but I feel I should leave it up to them. I
feel it makes a mockery of learning.
Pat
to my daughters to go on field trips and do some social things with.
We found a nice group of moms and girls and had some fun and
interesting times together.
One of the moms has decided she needs ways to motivate her daughter
to learn so she is starting a "Silk Roads" class. The plan is for
each girl to choose a region of the world, preferably along the silk
roads trade route, to research and write about and bring the
information to share with the group. The group will meet once a week
for this sharing of information as well as *fun* crafts, plays,
costume making and field trips.
I asked my girls if they wanted to participate. I told them that
they would have to do "homework". Allison said she would try it and
see if she liked it. Virginia said "sure".
This whole thing bothers me. The mom that is organizing it has said
numerous times that the girls are not interested in the world history
or geography aspects of the silk road but they are very excited about
the fun things and being together.
Allison would probably enjoy the world history part of it because she
*is* interested in that. Virginia likes doing projects and writing
so she would enjoy it. However, it really bothers me that this mom
is doing it to trick her daughter into learning.
How should I handle this in an unschooling way? I'd rather they
didn't go, on principle, but I feel I should leave it up to them. I
feel it makes a mockery of learning.
Pat
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/5/02 6:10:10 PM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
<< Allison would probably enjoy the world history part of it because she
*is* interested in that. Virginia likes doing projects and writing
so she would enjoy it. However, it really bothers me that this mom
is doing it to trick her daughter into learning. >>
Instead of treating it like homework or a kid-thing, do it together! And
that would model for the other girl's mom that she could learn as well or
better and less stressfully if she and her mom would work together too.
When Holly was in girl scouts one season and they did Juliette Lowe day they
assigned countries, and the girls were to tell about Girl Scouts (or more
likely Girl Guides) in that country.
Holly was assigned China.
I told Holly there were no Girl Guides in China because it was a communist
country.
Holly wasn't sure I knew what I was talking about. They had also told her
the flag should be blue and yellow. (She had it in black outline and was
supposed to color it.
I spent some time finding things around the house and online to show Holly
that truly, really, I wasn't crazy.
So her presentation ended up being pretty cool, and she told that there are
Girl Guides in Hong Kong which has only lately become part of China, but
they're being phased out.
She had a teammember who wanted to bring fortune cookies for their Chinese
food sample. Fortune Cookies are American.
So Holly learned a lot and I discovered I had picked up more relevant trivia
than I had realized! <g>
Same thing could be done with you guys and the silk road!
I would think you could also not press your own daughter to write out her
research, but maybe to take a map or a piece of cloth or whatever all and
treat it like show and tell (which all the best presentations in the world
seem to be!) instead of "a report."
If this doesn't go well, your daughter will learn from experience that
too-contrived projects can be a bust. But if it DOES go well she might be
inspired to be a... sales executive!
designer
window dresser
inspirational speaker
politician <g>
historian
folklorist
anthropologist
Maybe while she's looking things up you could point out where that
information comes from that she's finding. Geographers, cartologists,
archeologists, historians...
Sandra
<< Allison would probably enjoy the world history part of it because she
*is* interested in that. Virginia likes doing projects and writing
so she would enjoy it. However, it really bothers me that this mom
is doing it to trick her daughter into learning. >>
Instead of treating it like homework or a kid-thing, do it together! And
that would model for the other girl's mom that she could learn as well or
better and less stressfully if she and her mom would work together too.
When Holly was in girl scouts one season and they did Juliette Lowe day they
assigned countries, and the girls were to tell about Girl Scouts (or more
likely Girl Guides) in that country.
Holly was assigned China.
I told Holly there were no Girl Guides in China because it was a communist
country.
Holly wasn't sure I knew what I was talking about. They had also told her
the flag should be blue and yellow. (She had it in black outline and was
supposed to color it.
I spent some time finding things around the house and online to show Holly
that truly, really, I wasn't crazy.
So her presentation ended up being pretty cool, and she told that there are
Girl Guides in Hong Kong which has only lately become part of China, but
they're being phased out.
She had a teammember who wanted to bring fortune cookies for their Chinese
food sample. Fortune Cookies are American.
So Holly learned a lot and I discovered I had picked up more relevant trivia
than I had realized! <g>
Same thing could be done with you guys and the silk road!
I would think you could also not press your own daughter to write out her
research, but maybe to take a map or a piece of cloth or whatever all and
treat it like show and tell (which all the best presentations in the world
seem to be!) instead of "a report."
If this doesn't go well, your daughter will learn from experience that
too-contrived projects can be a bust. But if it DOES go well she might be
inspired to be a... sales executive!
designer
window dresser
inspirational speaker
politician <g>
historian
folklorist
anthropologist
Maybe while she's looking things up you could point out where that
information comes from that she's finding. Geographers, cartologists,
archeologists, historians...
Sandra
Nancy Wooton
on 8/5/02 10:36 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
recording called "The Silk Road: A Musical Caravan." See
http://www.folkways.si.edu/catalog/40438.htm
The CD is packed with information about the people who now live along the
Silk Road, too.
I always head for National Geographic when I need information about places;
the January 1984 issue contains an article, "The Queen of Textiles: Silk,"
which is mostly about silk itself, how it's made and used, but also touches
on its history. There are a couple of photos of two-sided embroidery which
you have to see to believe: the stitchers use a single strand of silk; it's
almost like sewing with spider's webs.
Nancy
>You could check out the music from China -- YoYo Ma spearheaded a new
> In a message dated 8/5/02 6:10:10 PM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
>
> << Allison would probably enjoy the world history part of it because she
> *is* interested in that. Virginia likes doing projects and writing
> so she would enjoy it. However, it really bothers me that this mom
> is doing it to trick her daughter into learning. >>
>
> Instead of treating it like homework or a kid-thing, do it together! And
> that would model for the other girl's mom that she could learn as well or
> better and less stressfully if she and her mom would work together too.
recording called "The Silk Road: A Musical Caravan." See
http://www.folkways.si.edu/catalog/40438.htm
The CD is packed with information about the people who now live along the
Silk Road, too.
I always head for National Geographic when I need information about places;
the January 1984 issue contains an article, "The Queen of Textiles: Silk,"
which is mostly about silk itself, how it's made and used, but also touches
on its history. There are a couple of photos of two-sided embroidery which
you have to see to believe: the stitchers use a single strand of silk; it's
almost like sewing with spider's webs.
Nancy
homeschoolmd
--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
I did not mention that this class is supposed to last a long time and
not be just a one or two day thing.
The plan is for the class to be held every Thursday from 10-2 and for
it to move from geography to food, clothing, history, economics, art,
music and then religion. In addition to my concern about the purpose
of the class being to trick the kids into learning, another concern I
have is that this would take up a lot of Allison and Virginia's time
at home. Should this be given so much importance? Will they still
take time for self-directed efforts?
I *could* think of it as the same as anything I would offer to them
that they have not asked for. They would always have the option to
say no. I wonder why I feel so negative about this?
Pat
> Instead of treating it like homework or a kid-thing, do ittogether! And
> that would model for the other girl's mom that she could learn aswell or
> better and less stressfully if she and her mom would work togethertoo.
I did not mention that this class is supposed to last a long time and
not be just a one or two day thing.
The plan is for the class to be held every Thursday from 10-2 and for
it to move from geography to food, clothing, history, economics, art,
music and then religion. In addition to my concern about the purpose
of the class being to trick the kids into learning, another concern I
have is that this would take up a lot of Allison and Virginia's time
at home. Should this be given so much importance? Will they still
take time for self-directed efforts?
I *could* think of it as the same as anything I would offer to them
that they have not asked for. They would always have the option to
say no. I wonder why I feel so negative about this?
Pat
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/02 6:45:38 AM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
<< I *could* think of it as the same as anything I would offer to them
that they have not asked for. They would always have the option to
say no. I wonder why I feel so negative about this? >>
Pat, I've had similar experiences. My daughter LOVES classes and group
projects of all kinds. When a Junior Great Books class started (years ago
now), I was completely sceptical. But it turned out great and it's because of
the attitude of the woman who runs it. And the fact that Zoe can quit anytime
it doesn't fit her needs. This year she will be doing eight (!) project/class
thingys, some lasting all year. But the responsibility for doing the work,
etc. is up to her.
So, if your daughters are excited about this, let them try it and see how it
goes. She won't have to trick them into learning.
Paula, delurking
<< I *could* think of it as the same as anything I would offer to them
that they have not asked for. They would always have the option to
say no. I wonder why I feel so negative about this? >>
Pat, I've had similar experiences. My daughter LOVES classes and group
projects of all kinds. When a Junior Great Books class started (years ago
now), I was completely sceptical. But it turned out great and it's because of
the attitude of the woman who runs it. And the fact that Zoe can quit anytime
it doesn't fit her needs. This year she will be doing eight (!) project/class
thingys, some lasting all year. But the responsibility for doing the work,
etc. is up to her.
So, if your daughters are excited about this, let them try it and see how it
goes. She won't have to trick them into learning.
Paula, delurking
[email protected]
Hi Pat -
What you're describing is like any of the classes my kids take.....the hard
part, for me, is to continue my own hands off/unschooling philosophy when
they are in 'schooling' situations....and it can be very hard if a child
doesn't want to participate attend one week for 'no reason' or has a
different idea of how the class should go....I really have to watch my own
discomfort level and not let it affect dd's decisions/options.....
Perhaps you can get away from the other mother's motivations and just look at
the activity at face value....it is simply a time of getting together with
other girls and learning about other parts of the world....your daughters can
get whatever they want out of it....and they can stop going whenever,
too.....and they can speak up about what they are willing to do (enjoy coming
here and doing the activities but am not interested in doing the homework)....
your friend's motivation doesn't have to be your motivation and you do not
have to participate in the coercion if your daughters don't want to
participate in something.....Also, (more of my baggage coming through!) don't
get sucked into doing more of the planning/organizing than you are willing to
do just bec. your friend is doing 'all the work'....If this activity does not
interest you, find a way to be supportive of your daughters without being
involved in the stuff that doesn't interest you....
Notice....you say, "This whole thing bothers me".....but your daughters,
given all the information, are willing to give it a try....step back, take a
deep breath, go with the flow and trust yourself and your daughters.....
Hope that's helpful! Good luck!
Jane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What you're describing is like any of the classes my kids take.....the hard
part, for me, is to continue my own hands off/unschooling philosophy when
they are in 'schooling' situations....and it can be very hard if a child
doesn't want to participate attend one week for 'no reason' or has a
different idea of how the class should go....I really have to watch my own
discomfort level and not let it affect dd's decisions/options.....
Perhaps you can get away from the other mother's motivations and just look at
the activity at face value....it is simply a time of getting together with
other girls and learning about other parts of the world....your daughters can
get whatever they want out of it....and they can stop going whenever,
too.....and they can speak up about what they are willing to do (enjoy coming
here and doing the activities but am not interested in doing the homework)....
your friend's motivation doesn't have to be your motivation and you do not
have to participate in the coercion if your daughters don't want to
participate in something.....Also, (more of my baggage coming through!) don't
get sucked into doing more of the planning/organizing than you are willing to
do just bec. your friend is doing 'all the work'....If this activity does not
interest you, find a way to be supportive of your daughters without being
involved in the stuff that doesn't interest you....
Notice....you say, "This whole thing bothers me".....but your daughters,
given all the information, are willing to give it a try....step back, take a
deep breath, go with the flow and trust yourself and your daughters.....
Hope that's helpful! Good luck!
Jane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amy
Hello,
I understand what you mean - my son in particular can sense my anxiety a
mile away and doesn't want anything to do with My Agenda, dressed up as
something else.
On the other hand, I don't see unschooling as a situation where I don't
introduce new ideas or try to foster excitement. Sometimes, people
(including kids) DO become interested in academic subjects after a fun
activity. Perhaps your friend's intentions are based in fear, or perhaps she
is just creatively, gently leading.
I don't think you need to have the learning vs. fun dichotomy set up in your
mind - if they are having fun together and doing fun projects, then that is
what they are doing - having fun! I hope you enjoy - I am wondering if I
could do something like that here - we are going to make a big leap into
world history this year - a major gap in my own personal education. I should
say, I guess, that *I* am making the leap and I assume it will be of some
interest to my kids as I move along with my giant timeline down the back
hallway :-)
Amy
so she would enjoy it. However, it really bothers me that this mom
is doing it to trick her daughter into learning.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I understand what you mean - my son in particular can sense my anxiety a
mile away and doesn't want anything to do with My Agenda, dressed up as
something else.
On the other hand, I don't see unschooling as a situation where I don't
introduce new ideas or try to foster excitement. Sometimes, people
(including kids) DO become interested in academic subjects after a fun
activity. Perhaps your friend's intentions are based in fear, or perhaps she
is just creatively, gently leading.
I don't think you need to have the learning vs. fun dichotomy set up in your
mind - if they are having fun together and doing fun projects, then that is
what they are doing - having fun! I hope you enjoy - I am wondering if I
could do something like that here - we are going to make a big leap into
world history this year - a major gap in my own personal education. I should
say, I guess, that *I* am making the leap and I assume it will be of some
interest to my kids as I move along with my giant timeline down the back
hallway :-)
Amy
so she would enjoy it. However, it really bothers me that this mom
is doing it to trick her daughter into learning.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa Hardiman
Dear Pat: I was thinking about your situation. In Great Falls, there
is no network. People remain extremely exclusive within their own
church, and wouldn't even network with other churches. Unschoolers and
non-religious homeschoolers tend to do their own thing. But in another
town, Bozeman, I had a chance of meeting homeschoolers in a group.
Because of this experience, I realize I am not a group person, and, now,
the time I spend with a group is limited. I don't want to get in a trap
of talking about other parents or kids who are misbehaving. I think if
this mom is trying to get her kid to study geography and history through
a topic of the silk roads in a way that is not straight forward than it
is between her and her kids. Your observations can be expressed if the
discussion comes up, but my advice is to just focus on your own way and
family and allow this parent to make a mistake. I make parenting
mistakes all the time. I try to go by my heart. When I make a mistake
my father always tells me about it and it gets me mad, but if I realize
it on my own than I am okay, and learn from the humility of the moment.
If the behavior of someone in a group, the kid or parent, is negative,
perhaps it is better to use an "I feel" message and point out the
situation, not the cause of it because there may be many causes some we
don't even see. Don't we all have an inner child that needs to be
nurtured? And isn't it admirable when we can see this inner child in
other parents as well? Lisa Hardiman
-----Original Message-----
From: Karin [mailto:curtkar@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 9:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] silk roads was advice please
This sounds just like the homeschool group that we belong to. In fact,
we
meet on Thursdays, also!
We usually follow some sort of theme during the year and each meeting
incorporates craft projects, books, food or something about the theme. I
see
it as a way the group members can justify bringing their kids once a
week to
get together, because at least they are "learning" about something.
Otherwise, the diligent homeschoolers in our group could not see wasting
a
day just on kids playing together.
All our kids also have the option of not participating if they choose -
I
think that's important. Sometimes the whole thing irritates me a bit,
too,
with importance given on individual reports or projects to give, and
then I
see my kids struggling a bit to complete their "assignment". But in
retrospect, I realize we have had fun participating in these weekly
classes
and learning together in this non-threatening environment really makes
it
fun for all of us. The kids get a chance to see and play with other kids
and
us parents get a chance to talk, too.
Perhaps you feel negative about the whole thing because it meets once a
week for 4 hours. To me, that is big time commitment that starts grating
on
me after a while and really gets old. But I continue going because my
kids
enjoy the whole thing. And I also like it because through the group, we
are
participating in activities and learning things we may not otherwise get
exposed to, at home. It's a little give and take, but hey, it DOES make
learning fun, and that's a good thing for all of us.
Karin
"homeschoolmd" wrote:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is no network. People remain extremely exclusive within their own
church, and wouldn't even network with other churches. Unschoolers and
non-religious homeschoolers tend to do their own thing. But in another
town, Bozeman, I had a chance of meeting homeschoolers in a group.
Because of this experience, I realize I am not a group person, and, now,
the time I spend with a group is limited. I don't want to get in a trap
of talking about other parents or kids who are misbehaving. I think if
this mom is trying to get her kid to study geography and history through
a topic of the silk roads in a way that is not straight forward than it
is between her and her kids. Your observations can be expressed if the
discussion comes up, but my advice is to just focus on your own way and
family and allow this parent to make a mistake. I make parenting
mistakes all the time. I try to go by my heart. When I make a mistake
my father always tells me about it and it gets me mad, but if I realize
it on my own than I am okay, and learn from the humility of the moment.
If the behavior of someone in a group, the kid or parent, is negative,
perhaps it is better to use an "I feel" message and point out the
situation, not the cause of it because there may be many causes some we
don't even see. Don't we all have an inner child that needs to be
nurtured? And isn't it admirable when we can see this inner child in
other parents as well? Lisa Hardiman
-----Original Message-----
From: Karin [mailto:curtkar@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 9:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] silk roads was advice please
This sounds just like the homeschool group that we belong to. In fact,
we
meet on Thursdays, also!
We usually follow some sort of theme during the year and each meeting
incorporates craft projects, books, food or something about the theme. I
see
it as a way the group members can justify bringing their kids once a
week to
get together, because at least they are "learning" about something.
Otherwise, the diligent homeschoolers in our group could not see wasting
a
day just on kids playing together.
All our kids also have the option of not participating if they choose -
I
think that's important. Sometimes the whole thing irritates me a bit,
too,
with importance given on individual reports or projects to give, and
then I
see my kids struggling a bit to complete their "assignment". But in
retrospect, I realize we have had fun participating in these weekly
classes
and learning together in this non-threatening environment really makes
it
fun for all of us. The kids get a chance to see and play with other kids
and
us parents get a chance to talk, too.
Perhaps you feel negative about the whole thing because it meets once a
week for 4 hours. To me, that is big time commitment that starts grating
on
me after a while and really gets old. But I continue going because my
kids
enjoy the whole thing. And I also like it because through the group, we
are
participating in activities and learning things we may not otherwise get
exposed to, at home. It's a little give and take, but hey, it DOES make
learning fun, and that's a good thing for all of us.
Karin
"homeschoolmd" wrote:
> I did not mention that this class is supposed to last a long time andYahoo! Groups Sponsor
> not be just a one or two day thing.
>
> The plan is for the class to be held every Thursday from 10-2 and for
> it to move from geography to food, clothing, history, economics, art,
> music and then religion. In addition to my concern about the purpose
> of the class being to trick the kids into learning, another concern I
> have is that this would take up a lot of Allison and Virginia's time
> at home. Should this be given so much importance? Will they still
> take time for self-directed efforts?
>
> I *could* think of it as the same as anything I would offer to them
> that they have not asked for. They would always have the option to
> say no. I wonder why I feel so negative about this?
>
> Pat
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=213858.2225295.3666737.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705
542111:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http:/www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hays
Hi Pat,
I am wondering how old your girls are? When our children were younger, it was much harder for me in those type of situtations. My skin would begin to crawl at the thought of so much instruction for activity at a young age. Our children have always been sooooo busy without anyone giving any type of direction. When situtations like this came up when ours were younger (which some still are!) I know that my feelings got in the way and our children sensed it and knew something was up. Thats just the way it was. I was able to stay netural at times, in areas that felt ok, maybe not ideal (whatever ideal is!!). Now that the older ones are older, the situtaions that I don't feel are to my liking, are mine. They participate in a variety of things because they are ready. Because they are branching out, reaching, growing, becoming more seperate. And making choices based on their experiences. If it doesn't feel right to them, they listen to that inner voice. Just like I did when they were younger and still do.
Hope this makes sense!!
Justine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am wondering how old your girls are? When our children were younger, it was much harder for me in those type of situtations. My skin would begin to crawl at the thought of so much instruction for activity at a young age. Our children have always been sooooo busy without anyone giving any type of direction. When situtations like this came up when ours were younger (which some still are!) I know that my feelings got in the way and our children sensed it and knew something was up. Thats just the way it was. I was able to stay netural at times, in areas that felt ok, maybe not ideal (whatever ideal is!!). Now that the older ones are older, the situtaions that I don't feel are to my liking, are mine. They participate in a variety of things because they are ready. Because they are branching out, reaching, growing, becoming more seperate. And making choices based on their experiences. If it doesn't feel right to them, they listen to that inner voice. Just like I did when they were younger and still do.
Hope this makes sense!!
Justine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/2002 4:55:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sjogy@...
writes:
involved in things where the other involved people have different agendas. My
kids don't only do things with other unschooled kids/families -- and
sometimes when they do something the other people are there for very
different reasons. Sometimes it doesn't work out well - sometimes it does -
even things that are really obviously nonacademic are sometimes fraught with
this kind of dichotomy. My 11 yo is going to soccer daycamp this week and it
is OBVIOUS that there are kids there because they LOOOOOVE to play soccer and
there are other kids there because they had to be babysat during the day and
this was what their parents chose for them for this week. Plus - there are
kids there whose parents are pushing them to be soccer-superstars and other
kids who are there because their parents decided they needed more exercise
and so on and on. The coaches probably have totally different ideas, too,
about what the camp is "really" for -- but as long as my daughter wants to go
and find it meets her own interests - I don't concern myself with why the
other kids are there and why the coaches are coaching, etc.
In fact, a LOT of the stuff they do at soccer camp is designed to "trick" the
kids into learning something --- they play all kinds of different games, each
designed to help them learn a certain skill or strategy. That's okay - they
have fun playing the games and they LIKE to learn. I'd take that mom's
attitude as sort of being like that of the soccer coaches -- assume kids LOVE
to learn - provide them with activities that are fun, in and of themselves,
AND during which they pick up some information or cocepts about something
interesting -- sounds cool to me.
If she started sending hom boring "homework" or started sitting them down and
giving them tests on what they should have been tricked into learning, then
I'd have a problem with it.
It CAN have a huge impact, of course -- the attitudes of the other kids and
the coaches could make it something that my daughter chooses to not do. But
it might be really fun, too.
--pamS
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
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writes:
> So, if your daughters are excited about this, let them try it and see how itPlus -- you might realize that your girls are going to, inevitably, be
>
> goes. She won't have to trick them into learning.
involved in things where the other involved people have different agendas. My
kids don't only do things with other unschooled kids/families -- and
sometimes when they do something the other people are there for very
different reasons. Sometimes it doesn't work out well - sometimes it does -
even things that are really obviously nonacademic are sometimes fraught with
this kind of dichotomy. My 11 yo is going to soccer daycamp this week and it
is OBVIOUS that there are kids there because they LOOOOOVE to play soccer and
there are other kids there because they had to be babysat during the day and
this was what their parents chose for them for this week. Plus - there are
kids there whose parents are pushing them to be soccer-superstars and other
kids who are there because their parents decided they needed more exercise
and so on and on. The coaches probably have totally different ideas, too,
about what the camp is "really" for -- but as long as my daughter wants to go
and find it meets her own interests - I don't concern myself with why the
other kids are there and why the coaches are coaching, etc.
In fact, a LOT of the stuff they do at soccer camp is designed to "trick" the
kids into learning something --- they play all kinds of different games, each
designed to help them learn a certain skill or strategy. That's okay - they
have fun playing the games and they LIKE to learn. I'd take that mom's
attitude as sort of being like that of the soccer coaches -- assume kids LOVE
to learn - provide them with activities that are fun, in and of themselves,
AND during which they pick up some information or cocepts about something
interesting -- sounds cool to me.
If she started sending hom boring "homework" or started sitting them down and
giving them tests on what they should have been tricked into learning, then
I'd have a problem with it.
It CAN have a huge impact, of course -- the attitudes of the other kids and
the coaches could make it something that my daughter chooses to not do. But
it might be really fun, too.
--pamS
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/02 4:33:14 AM, listmail@... writes:
<< I don't think you need to have the learning vs. fun dichotomy set up in
your
mind - if they are having fun together and doing fun projects, then that is
what they are doing - having fun! >>
More than that, I think you need to NOT have a learning vs. fun dichotomy.
Until it all seems fun, you'll have worries. WHEN it all seems fun, and
when you see kids learning from activities you once considered "just playing"
or "doing nothing" then it will start to work!!
Sandra
<< I don't think you need to have the learning vs. fun dichotomy set up in
your
mind - if they are having fun together and doing fun projects, then that is
what they are doing - having fun! >>
More than that, I think you need to NOT have a learning vs. fun dichotomy.
Until it all seems fun, you'll have worries. WHEN it all seems fun, and
when you see kids learning from activities you once considered "just playing"
or "doing nothing" then it will start to work!!
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/02 5:55:47 AM, sjogy@... writes:
<< So, if your daughters are excited about this, let them try it and see how
it
goes. She won't have to trick them into learning.
I think a study of the silk road sounds very SCA-ish.
That was the theme of the Twelfth Night feast in Denver last year--each
course was from a different culture along the road, and the servers changed
costume for each course too.
Is this mom in the SCA? <g>
If they're in northern Colorado, she's just recycling what she learned last
winter! LOL!
Sandra
<< So, if your daughters are excited about this, let them try it and see how
it
goes. She won't have to trick them into learning.
>>They might help her learn that learning can be really pretty fun!
I think a study of the silk road sounds very SCA-ish.
That was the theme of the Twelfth Night feast in Denver last year--each
course was from a different culture along the road, and the servers changed
costume for each course too.
Is this mom in the SCA? <g>
If they're in northern Colorado, she's just recycling what she learned last
winter! LOL!
Sandra
Karin
This sounds just like the homeschool group that we belong to. In fact, we
meet on Thursdays, also!
We usually follow some sort of theme during the year and each meeting
incorporates craft projects, books, food or something about the theme. I see
it as a way the group members can justify bringing their kids once a week to
get together, because at least they are "learning" about something.
Otherwise, the diligent homeschoolers in our group could not see wasting a
day just on kids playing together.
All our kids also have the option of not participating if they choose - I
think that's important. Sometimes the whole thing irritates me a bit, too,
with importance given on individual reports or projects to give, and then I
see my kids struggling a bit to complete their "assignment". But in
retrospect, I realize we have had fun participating in these weekly classes
and learning together in this non-threatening environment really makes it
fun for all of us. The kids get a chance to see and play with other kids and
us parents get a chance to talk, too.
Perhaps you feel negative about the whole thing because it meets once a
week for 4 hours. To me, that is big time commitment that starts grating on
me after a while and really gets old. But I continue going because my kids
enjoy the whole thing. And I also like it because through the group, we are
participating in activities and learning things we may not otherwise get
exposed to, at home. It's a little give and take, but hey, it DOES make
learning fun, and that's a good thing for all of us.
Karin
"homeschoolmd" wrote:
meet on Thursdays, also!
We usually follow some sort of theme during the year and each meeting
incorporates craft projects, books, food or something about the theme. I see
it as a way the group members can justify bringing their kids once a week to
get together, because at least they are "learning" about something.
Otherwise, the diligent homeschoolers in our group could not see wasting a
day just on kids playing together.
All our kids also have the option of not participating if they choose - I
think that's important. Sometimes the whole thing irritates me a bit, too,
with importance given on individual reports or projects to give, and then I
see my kids struggling a bit to complete their "assignment". But in
retrospect, I realize we have had fun participating in these weekly classes
and learning together in this non-threatening environment really makes it
fun for all of us. The kids get a chance to see and play with other kids and
us parents get a chance to talk, too.
Perhaps you feel negative about the whole thing because it meets once a
week for 4 hours. To me, that is big time commitment that starts grating on
me after a while and really gets old. But I continue going because my kids
enjoy the whole thing. And I also like it because through the group, we are
participating in activities and learning things we may not otherwise get
exposed to, at home. It's a little give and take, but hey, it DOES make
learning fun, and that's a good thing for all of us.
Karin
"homeschoolmd" wrote:
> I did not mention that this class is supposed to last a long time and
> not be just a one or two day thing.
>
> The plan is for the class to be held every Thursday from 10-2 and for
> it to move from geography to food, clothing, history, economics, art,
> music and then religion. In addition to my concern about the purpose
> of the class being to trick the kids into learning, another concern I
> have is that this would take up a lot of Allison and Virginia's time
> at home. Should this be given so much importance? Will they still
> take time for self-directed efforts?
>
> I *could* think of it as the same as anything I would offer to them
> that they have not asked for. They would always have the option to
> say no. I wonder why I feel so negative about this?
>
> Pat
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/02 9:16:52 AM, lisa-hardiman@... writes:
<< I think if
this mom is trying to get her kid to study geography and history through
a topic of the silk roads in a way that is not straight forward than it
is between her and her kids. Your observations can be expressed if the
discussion comes up, >>
The discussion IS up, though, because either the girls participate or not,
and the reasons why they might not might be of interest to the organizing
family. And if the girls do go and the mom isn't willing to "make them" do
their "work" (if/when that could be an issue) that too could be both
disruptive and instructive.
I wouldn't try to undo the project, if it involved one of my kids, but I
would be wary of "the project" making my kids feel inferior or wrong.
Sandra
<< I think if
this mom is trying to get her kid to study geography and history through
a topic of the silk roads in a way that is not straight forward than it
is between her and her kids. Your observations can be expressed if the
discussion comes up, >>
The discussion IS up, though, because either the girls participate or not,
and the reasons why they might not might be of interest to the organizing
family. And if the girls do go and the mom isn't willing to "make them" do
their "work" (if/when that could be an issue) that too could be both
disruptive and instructive.
I wouldn't try to undo the project, if it involved one of my kids, but I
would be wary of "the project" making my kids feel inferior or wrong.
Sandra
homeschoolmd
--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
my kids do anything they don't want to do or that the girls may quit
if they are not into it?
It could be disruptive to the other girls in the group or the mothers
that *are* making their kids do stuff they don't want to do if
Allison and Virginia do things a little differently.
We tried volunteering at a nature center with this same mom last
winter. We had to call it quits when she came up with a project *for
educational* purposes that made no sense to me at all and the kids
were less than enthusiastic about. This mom still goes to the nature
center and they still invite us to do things with them. I just told
her the girls were not really into the nature center any more.
Before we quit, I did try to talk her out of the particular project
we didn't like.
Maybe she just has me pegged as a negative person and will be able to
use that in the event we decide to leave the silk roads class.
Anyway, how upfront should I be here?
Pat
> The discussion IS up, though, because either the girls participateor not,
> and the reasons why they might not might be of interest to theorganizing
> family. And if the girls do go and the mom isn't willing to "makethem" do
> their "work" (if/when that could be an issue) that too could beboth
> disruptive and instructive.but I
>
> I wouldn't try to undo the project, if it involved one of my kids,
> would be wary of "the project" making my kids feel inferior orwrong.
>Do you think I should tell them up front that I don't plan on making
my kids do anything they don't want to do or that the girls may quit
if they are not into it?
It could be disruptive to the other girls in the group or the mothers
that *are* making their kids do stuff they don't want to do if
Allison and Virginia do things a little differently.
We tried volunteering at a nature center with this same mom last
winter. We had to call it quits when she came up with a project *for
educational* purposes that made no sense to me at all and the kids
were less than enthusiastic about. This mom still goes to the nature
center and they still invite us to do things with them. I just told
her the girls were not really into the nature center any more.
Before we quit, I did try to talk her out of the particular project
we didn't like.
Maybe she just has me pegged as a negative person and will be able to
use that in the event we decide to leave the silk roads class.
Anyway, how upfront should I be here?
Pat
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/02 12:54:12 PM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
<< Do you think I should tell them up front that I don't plan on making
my kids do anything they don't want to do or that the girls may quit
if they are not into it? >>
No. The "might quit" is implied in anyone's starting a project.
Maybe you could say "I'm concerned that this will be too schoolish."
The mom won't be thinking she'e planning to be schoolish, but fun! And your
stated concern will probably help her make the less schoolish choice at each
step along the way.
Sandra
<< Do you think I should tell them up front that I don't plan on making
my kids do anything they don't want to do or that the girls may quit
if they are not into it? >>
No. The "might quit" is implied in anyone's starting a project.
Maybe you could say "I'm concerned that this will be too schoolish."
The mom won't be thinking she'e planning to be schoolish, but fun! And your
stated concern will probably help her make the less schoolish choice at each
step along the way.
Sandra
Fetteroll
on 8/6/02 2:53 PM, homeschoolmd at homeschoolmd@... wrote:
of there being a right and wrong way to do it. I do see that this mom who
set it up probably sees it this way but you don't need to :-)
Look at it as a resource or opportunity to do something that doesn't
normally stumble through your lives.
Look at it as an opportunity to put the idea out there for others to see
that they can approach something creatively too. (I bet there will be moms
who think "I didn't know we could do it that way!")
Joyce
> Do you think I should tell them up front that I don't plan on makingI think if you approach it like that then you're going in with the attitude
> my kids do anything they don't want to do or that the girls may quit
> if they are not into it?
of there being a right and wrong way to do it. I do see that this mom who
set it up probably sees it this way but you don't need to :-)
Look at it as a resource or opportunity to do something that doesn't
normally stumble through your lives.
Look at it as an opportunity to put the idea out there for others to see
that they can approach something creatively too. (I bet there will be moms
who think "I didn't know we could do it that way!")
Joyce
[email protected]
> > Do you think I should tell them up front that I don't plan onI like what Joyce said.
> making
> > my kids do anything they don't want to do or that the girls may
> quit
> > if they are not into it?
I would go with the attitude it would be fun, try to make it fun if it
isn't and leave if they hate it.
Could there be belly dancing by any chance?? Now THAT sounds fun!
Deb L