Family Life
[email protected]
Sandra,
You brought up some interesting ideas. Ashley is going on 8. She has her own
space, a whole room, yet our house is tiny. She does have a brother who does
not respect her things mostly. He's getting better. He is obnoxiuos,
especially when friends are over. She has had to share me twice now with a new
baby. She stays up super late waiting for me to cuddle her in bed. Tessa still
nurses at night and I get her asleep before I can visit with Ashley. Some
nights I'm proactive and get Ashley to settle in with some stories/chats
before I help the others to bed. I'm exhausted mostly meeting 3 kids needs all
day and night. Tim leaves for work early in am and ar 40 can not stay awake
past 9:30. We have issues about bedtime/let them go to bed on their own.
Totally off on a tangent now.
O.K. So I know Ashley is needy. Her neediness is going on and on and on,
though. We give her a ton of time with other families, teens, friends,
activities. She is a do-er. She does not repect us in that she barks when we
talk to her. She cries if she has to compromise. She sees herself at the hub
of the universe.
Riley likes to sing the songs she learns for musical shows. He does not want
to be in the shows, yet loves watching and learning along side. Forever now,
he sings his own versions, she barks corrections at him, we ask her to let her
brother sing his style. If he wants help he will ask. She complains, cries,
hums rudely and loudly so he messes up. He screams, she continues correcting.
So she is possessing even songs. She does not want to share them. It makes for
misearble driving and family time. Why can't she just let him be? Even after
being asked to let him be?
I really want her to see the results of her actions. When you correct Riley he
yells at you. I need to help Riley not yell and Ashley not correct. The
yelling would stop, though, if the correcting stopped.
Finding her an adult/teen who she can learn respect from seems like a great
idea. She has a good friend here on the block. I'm at the point now of asking
her to show some self control. She seems to be taking this rude behavior too
far and I want her to practice being kind. Feel what it feels like to speak
kindly. We talked too much yesterday about finding solutions. She melted down
every 5 minutes or so. I would drop it. Wait until she was ready to talk
peacefully.
Basically, she is frustrated alot of the time because things do not go her
way. She needs to learn a few coping skills. She wants me to send her to her
room to read when she gets cold and prickly. I want her to vent her
frustrations, on paper, to me, to the kittens, to someone so she can see/hear
what's really going on. Often times the issue is really easily solved.
Talk about sensivity to clothing. She has worn 1 pair of satin PJ bottoms
inside out for 5 months now. And a bathing suit for underclothes. Once in a
while she pulls on a tank dress. She found 2 pairs of sandals she loves, yea
we have shoes for now.
I really want her to see the results of her actions. When you correct Riley he
yells at you. I need to help Riley not yell and Ashley not correct. The
yelling would stop, though, if the correcting stopped.
OK enough, thank you for raeding. I'm going to remember what a LLL leader
friend always said "When they are the most unloveable, they need the most
love."
Mary (Who is festering in the small stuff)
You brought up some interesting ideas. Ashley is going on 8. She has her own
space, a whole room, yet our house is tiny. She does have a brother who does
not respect her things mostly. He's getting better. He is obnoxiuos,
especially when friends are over. She has had to share me twice now with a new
baby. She stays up super late waiting for me to cuddle her in bed. Tessa still
nurses at night and I get her asleep before I can visit with Ashley. Some
nights I'm proactive and get Ashley to settle in with some stories/chats
before I help the others to bed. I'm exhausted mostly meeting 3 kids needs all
day and night. Tim leaves for work early in am and ar 40 can not stay awake
past 9:30. We have issues about bedtime/let them go to bed on their own.
Totally off on a tangent now.
O.K. So I know Ashley is needy. Her neediness is going on and on and on,
though. We give her a ton of time with other families, teens, friends,
activities. She is a do-er. She does not repect us in that she barks when we
talk to her. She cries if she has to compromise. She sees herself at the hub
of the universe.
Riley likes to sing the songs she learns for musical shows. He does not want
to be in the shows, yet loves watching and learning along side. Forever now,
he sings his own versions, she barks corrections at him, we ask her to let her
brother sing his style. If he wants help he will ask. She complains, cries,
hums rudely and loudly so he messes up. He screams, she continues correcting.
So she is possessing even songs. She does not want to share them. It makes for
misearble driving and family time. Why can't she just let him be? Even after
being asked to let him be?
I really want her to see the results of her actions. When you correct Riley he
yells at you. I need to help Riley not yell and Ashley not correct. The
yelling would stop, though, if the correcting stopped.
Finding her an adult/teen who she can learn respect from seems like a great
idea. She has a good friend here on the block. I'm at the point now of asking
her to show some self control. She seems to be taking this rude behavior too
far and I want her to practice being kind. Feel what it feels like to speak
kindly. We talked too much yesterday about finding solutions. She melted down
every 5 minutes or so. I would drop it. Wait until she was ready to talk
peacefully.
Basically, she is frustrated alot of the time because things do not go her
way. She needs to learn a few coping skills. She wants me to send her to her
room to read when she gets cold and prickly. I want her to vent her
frustrations, on paper, to me, to the kittens, to someone so she can see/hear
what's really going on. Often times the issue is really easily solved.
Talk about sensivity to clothing. She has worn 1 pair of satin PJ bottoms
inside out for 5 months now. And a bathing suit for underclothes. Once in a
while she pulls on a tank dress. She found 2 pairs of sandals she loves, yea
we have shoes for now.
I really want her to see the results of her actions. When you correct Riley he
yells at you. I need to help Riley not yell and Ashley not correct. The
yelling would stop, though, if the correcting stopped.
OK enough, thank you for raeding. I'm going to remember what a LLL leader
friend always said "When they are the most unloveable, they need the most
love."
Mary (Who is festering in the small stuff)
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/31/02 9:36:18 AM, maryfhickman@... writes:
<< So I know Ashley is needy. Her neediness is going on and on and on,
though. >>
It will go on until her needs are met.
That's the thing.
If one kid is needier than others, that kid needs more!
<<She cries if she has to compromise. She sees herself at the hub
of the universe.>>
That will fade with time. And it will fade faster with more attention.
<<She complains, cries,
hums rudely and loudly so he messes up. He screams, she continues correcting.
So she is possessing even songs. She does not want to share them. It makes for
misearble driving and family time. Why can't she just let him be? Even after
being asked to let him be?>>
If he's doing that just to bug her, I'd ask him to stop.
We used to make Kirby crazy by singing songs wrong. Sometimes we'd do it just
to tease him. I'd sing the Flintstones to the Jetsons tune, and vice versa
(Or just "Meet Fred Flintstone
Daughter Pebbles
His dog Dino
Wilma his wife..."
and Kirby would be wailing "NO! That's WRONG!"
We quit doing it after a while because it was too mean.
He honestly DID hate it.
Do you try humor with her, and logic?
Maybe if you say to her (when she's alone) that the only songs she can own
are the ones she makes up herself. It might get her to thinking. It might
get her to writing some songs. It might get her to lighten up.
Or if she says she does own some songs, maybe make a list of all the songs in
the world (you can finish it later, but at least start it) and as if it's a
serious proposition, make a list of the songs SHE owns, but she'll need to
designate some to be her brother's songs. And when she sees how silly and
"wrong" it is, she'll laugh and give up the idea.
(Maybe <g>.)
<<I really want her to see the results of her actions. When you correct Riley
he
yells at you. I need to help Riley not yell and Ashley not correct. The
yelling would stop, though, if the correcting stopped.>>
I wish I knew you guys in person so I could say something really helpful.
I'm kinda thinking, though, that maybe somehow you're perpetuating or
contributing to it and you're not seeing the results of your mom-actions.
Maybe the correcting would stop if you could figure out what she wants by it,
what she's thinking. Or just get her to see it in a different way. Maybe
you need to help Ashley not NEED to correct.
<< She seems to be taking this rude behavior too
far and I want her to practice being kind. Feel what it feels like to speak
kindly. >>
I remember a conversation with Kirby when he was about twelve. I said I
didn't know why he thought it was okay to be mean to Marty. That people were
nice to him (and I rattled off ten names of other kids and mostly adults who
were nice to him) and that he KNOWS it feels better, but he didn't seem to
realize how much he was hurting Marty with his attitude and his words. I
said I was frustrated that I couldn't figure out how to explain it to him,
and embarrassed that he was being a way that he himself hadn't been treated,
and I asked him what he would do if he were me.
Things started to change after that. He just thought about it differently.
What about role playing? Trade places and be each other. Let each of them
take turns being the mom. Be them with an obnoxious vengeance. If they get
mad and say "THAT IS NOT HOW I ACT." say "Oh. Sorry. How should I say it?"
And maybe they'll do the "new improved" them. And in doing that they'll
think about how it looks to others.
And if a role playing session turns to tears and storming out, let it go.
Put on some quiet music, work in the yard, let all that frustration dissipate
gradually and let it do some good.
<< Basically, she is frustrated alot of the time because things do not go her
way. She needs to learn a few coping skills. >>
Does breathing help? Running?
What if she's required to run around the outside of the house (if you have a
circuit outside) before she can yell at anyone?
Just the other day Kirby hit Holly. He's fifteen. She's ten. He hit her in
the head because she was picking scabs off the cat and didn't quit when he
told her to. We had company. You can imagine my joy.
I pulled the ancient and honorable rule we used when he and Marty were
little. You can only hit IF you talked first and then got a grownup to help.
So here I am talking to someone physically bigger than I am, saying "Did you
ask a grownup to help?"
"No."
"Then you shouldn't have hit her."
Sometimes such rules are more for the thinking-effect than for the procedure,
for sure. But a running around the building "rule" would be a way for her
to breathe and release adrenaline and have time to think.
About the cat--I did point out to Kirby that if a cat does NOT want its scabs
picked, no ten year old girl can do it. It takes two adults and a towel.
My husband and I learned that when we had a cat with an abscess on its head.
Yes, you can pick a cat's scab against its will, but first wrap it in a
towel, lay on it with your arm over its paws (which are wrapped in more than
one layer of towel) and hold its skull while the other adult does the deed
quickly. <g> If Holly was picking Flower's scabs, Flower was into it.
Sandra
<< So I know Ashley is needy. Her neediness is going on and on and on,
though. >>
It will go on until her needs are met.
That's the thing.
If one kid is needier than others, that kid needs more!
<<She cries if she has to compromise. She sees herself at the hub
of the universe.>>
That will fade with time. And it will fade faster with more attention.
<<She complains, cries,
hums rudely and loudly so he messes up. He screams, she continues correcting.
So she is possessing even songs. She does not want to share them. It makes for
misearble driving and family time. Why can't she just let him be? Even after
being asked to let him be?>>
If he's doing that just to bug her, I'd ask him to stop.
We used to make Kirby crazy by singing songs wrong. Sometimes we'd do it just
to tease him. I'd sing the Flintstones to the Jetsons tune, and vice versa
(Or just "Meet Fred Flintstone
Daughter Pebbles
His dog Dino
Wilma his wife..."
and Kirby would be wailing "NO! That's WRONG!"
We quit doing it after a while because it was too mean.
He honestly DID hate it.
Do you try humor with her, and logic?
Maybe if you say to her (when she's alone) that the only songs she can own
are the ones she makes up herself. It might get her to thinking. It might
get her to writing some songs. It might get her to lighten up.
Or if she says she does own some songs, maybe make a list of all the songs in
the world (you can finish it later, but at least start it) and as if it's a
serious proposition, make a list of the songs SHE owns, but she'll need to
designate some to be her brother's songs. And when she sees how silly and
"wrong" it is, she'll laugh and give up the idea.
(Maybe <g>.)
<<I really want her to see the results of her actions. When you correct Riley
he
yells at you. I need to help Riley not yell and Ashley not correct. The
yelling would stop, though, if the correcting stopped.>>
I wish I knew you guys in person so I could say something really helpful.
I'm kinda thinking, though, that maybe somehow you're perpetuating or
contributing to it and you're not seeing the results of your mom-actions.
Maybe the correcting would stop if you could figure out what she wants by it,
what she's thinking. Or just get her to see it in a different way. Maybe
you need to help Ashley not NEED to correct.
<< She seems to be taking this rude behavior too
far and I want her to practice being kind. Feel what it feels like to speak
kindly. >>
I remember a conversation with Kirby when he was about twelve. I said I
didn't know why he thought it was okay to be mean to Marty. That people were
nice to him (and I rattled off ten names of other kids and mostly adults who
were nice to him) and that he KNOWS it feels better, but he didn't seem to
realize how much he was hurting Marty with his attitude and his words. I
said I was frustrated that I couldn't figure out how to explain it to him,
and embarrassed that he was being a way that he himself hadn't been treated,
and I asked him what he would do if he were me.
Things started to change after that. He just thought about it differently.
What about role playing? Trade places and be each other. Let each of them
take turns being the mom. Be them with an obnoxious vengeance. If they get
mad and say "THAT IS NOT HOW I ACT." say "Oh. Sorry. How should I say it?"
And maybe they'll do the "new improved" them. And in doing that they'll
think about how it looks to others.
And if a role playing session turns to tears and storming out, let it go.
Put on some quiet music, work in the yard, let all that frustration dissipate
gradually and let it do some good.
<< Basically, she is frustrated alot of the time because things do not go her
way. She needs to learn a few coping skills. >>
Does breathing help? Running?
What if she's required to run around the outside of the house (if you have a
circuit outside) before she can yell at anyone?
Just the other day Kirby hit Holly. He's fifteen. She's ten. He hit her in
the head because she was picking scabs off the cat and didn't quit when he
told her to. We had company. You can imagine my joy.
I pulled the ancient and honorable rule we used when he and Marty were
little. You can only hit IF you talked first and then got a grownup to help.
So here I am talking to someone physically bigger than I am, saying "Did you
ask a grownup to help?"
"No."
"Then you shouldn't have hit her."
Sometimes such rules are more for the thinking-effect than for the procedure,
for sure. But a running around the building "rule" would be a way for her
to breathe and release adrenaline and have time to think.
About the cat--I did point out to Kirby that if a cat does NOT want its scabs
picked, no ten year old girl can do it. It takes two adults and a towel.
My husband and I learned that when we had a cat with an abscess on its head.
Yes, you can pick a cat's scab against its will, but first wrap it in a
towel, lay on it with your arm over its paws (which are wrapped in more than
one layer of towel) and hold its skull while the other adult does the deed
quickly. <g> If Holly was picking Flower's scabs, Flower was into it.
Sandra
[email protected]
> She sees herself at the hubMe too! <g>
> of the universe.>>
>OOOPS!
> That will fade with time.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/31/02 12:37:17 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< > She sees herself at the hub
I've told people with a straight face many times "I am the center of my
universe."
It's true of ANY thinking being that they're thinking from the inside of
themownselves. Then there are those tricks of compassion and awareness to
learn so that you accept that other people's universes really are
intersecting yours. <g>
<< > She sees herself at the hub
> of the universe.>>Me too! <g>
>OOOPS! >>
> That will fade with time.
I've told people with a straight face many times "I am the center of my
universe."
It's true of ANY thinking being that they're thinking from the inside of
themownselves. Then there are those tricks of compassion and awareness to
learn so that you accept that other people's universes really are
intersecting yours. <g>
[email protected]
<It's true of ANY thinking being that they're thinking from the inside of them
ownselves. Then there are those tricks of compassion and awareness to learn
so that you accept that other people's universes really are intersecting
yours.>
This is what I'm trying to convey to Ashley. Her world bums and bashes
sometimes into others worlds and that causes people to have feelings.
Sometimes really nasty, hateful feelings. Sometimes really beautiful feelings.
At home she collides into us. Out in the world she swirls and dances and flits
into others worlds.
I guess if I look really closely at this, I'm jealous that she is so
nurturing, interesting, and active out and about and cold and prickly most of
the time at home.
Yesterday I got a sitter for the younger 2 kids and took Ashley and a friend
out to shop for clothes for her beatles show. She hates clothes, and wanted
bell bottom jeans. We had a blast trying on ever pair of bell bottoms we could
find. No, No, No, No because. She did not melt down, I did not melt down. Her
friend Kelly talked nonstop the whole time. She's the quiet one I mentioned.
Quiet in a houseful of kids. Very talkative when one-on-one. We found Ashley a
pair of satin flowery pj bottoms. She will wear them inside out. I have to
wash them first to get ride of the scratchy glittery stuff. She also found a
hot pink super soft fuzzy shirt which will be nice in the fall too. I dressed
this kid in organic cotton and undyed wool and she only wears polyester.
Yikes. The girls sang and giggled all the way home and had a slepover at
Kelly's. Very fun 2 hours. Well worth the $ spent on a babysitter.
So while I know I am a big part of the problem, I see other's parts so much
clearer. She's probably correcting her brother because I seem set on
correcting her. I'll quit.
Got to go pick Ashley up across the street at the pool. I'm late, oops.
Mary
ownselves. Then there are those tricks of compassion and awareness to learn
so that you accept that other people's universes really are intersecting
yours.>
This is what I'm trying to convey to Ashley. Her world bums and bashes
sometimes into others worlds and that causes people to have feelings.
Sometimes really nasty, hateful feelings. Sometimes really beautiful feelings.
At home she collides into us. Out in the world she swirls and dances and flits
into others worlds.
I guess if I look really closely at this, I'm jealous that she is so
nurturing, interesting, and active out and about and cold and prickly most of
the time at home.
Yesterday I got a sitter for the younger 2 kids and took Ashley and a friend
out to shop for clothes for her beatles show. She hates clothes, and wanted
bell bottom jeans. We had a blast trying on ever pair of bell bottoms we could
find. No, No, No, No because. She did not melt down, I did not melt down. Her
friend Kelly talked nonstop the whole time. She's the quiet one I mentioned.
Quiet in a houseful of kids. Very talkative when one-on-one. We found Ashley a
pair of satin flowery pj bottoms. She will wear them inside out. I have to
wash them first to get ride of the scratchy glittery stuff. She also found a
hot pink super soft fuzzy shirt which will be nice in the fall too. I dressed
this kid in organic cotton and undyed wool and she only wears polyester.
Yikes. The girls sang and giggled all the way home and had a slepover at
Kelly's. Very fun 2 hours. Well worth the $ spent on a babysitter.
So while I know I am a big part of the problem, I see other's parts so much
clearer. She's probably correcting her brother because I seem set on
correcting her. I'll quit.
Got to go pick Ashley up across the street at the pool. I'm late, oops.
Mary
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/1/02 9:56:18 AM, maryfhickman@... writes:
<< I guess if I look really closely at this, I'm jealous that she is so
nurturing, interesting, and active out and about and cold and prickly most of
the time at home. >>
Kirby!!
He is SO on, charming, attentive and sparkly when he's gone, and when he's
home we get some of it, sometimes, but he needs to rest and relax and unwind
and we sometimes get the frustration-dump which he refrained from releasing
while he was out being **Kirby Dodd!**
One classic piece of advice I use less than I should (because it works when I
do it) is to ignore the stupidity some and praise the maturity. When I
notice Kirby or Marty being patient or helpful or social with Holly, I say
"Holly really liked playing that game with you guys. Thanks." (Not when
she's listening!) or "I'm glad you like Holly and can be so patient with her
stories. Thanks!"
And I told Kirby the other day I was really glad he'd been letting Marty hang
out with the older kids lately, that Marty obviously appreciated it. And I
said I hoped it wasn't hard for Kirby, and that Marty wasn't being
irritating. He said, "No, Marty's cool!"
YES!!! woohoo!!!
BIG relief and big change from the difficult years when Kirby was reaching
puberty and marty was "a kid."
Yesterday Marty showed me his pubic hair. Yes, I twinged too.
It was on his upper lip. He said, "Look, mom; pubic hair" and indicated
moustache stuff. Holly and I acted appropriately shocked and averted our
eyes and squealed and said "Don't Show Us! It's not right" and such. But he
said he figures leg hairiness, underarm hair and moustache are all pubic hair
because he got them from puberty.
eeek!
Sandra
<< I guess if I look really closely at this, I'm jealous that she is so
nurturing, interesting, and active out and about and cold and prickly most of
the time at home. >>
Kirby!!
He is SO on, charming, attentive and sparkly when he's gone, and when he's
home we get some of it, sometimes, but he needs to rest and relax and unwind
and we sometimes get the frustration-dump which he refrained from releasing
while he was out being **Kirby Dodd!**
One classic piece of advice I use less than I should (because it works when I
do it) is to ignore the stupidity some and praise the maturity. When I
notice Kirby or Marty being patient or helpful or social with Holly, I say
"Holly really liked playing that game with you guys. Thanks." (Not when
she's listening!) or "I'm glad you like Holly and can be so patient with her
stories. Thanks!"
And I told Kirby the other day I was really glad he'd been letting Marty hang
out with the older kids lately, that Marty obviously appreciated it. And I
said I hoped it wasn't hard for Kirby, and that Marty wasn't being
irritating. He said, "No, Marty's cool!"
YES!!! woohoo!!!
BIG relief and big change from the difficult years when Kirby was reaching
puberty and marty was "a kid."
Yesterday Marty showed me his pubic hair. Yes, I twinged too.
It was on his upper lip. He said, "Look, mom; pubic hair" and indicated
moustache stuff. Holly and I acted appropriately shocked and averted our
eyes and squealed and said "Don't Show Us! It's not right" and such. But he
said he figures leg hairiness, underarm hair and moustache are all pubic hair
because he got them from puberty.
eeek!
Sandra
Karen
>>Yesterday Marty showed me his pubic hair. Yes, I twinged too.It was on his upper lip. He said, "Look, mom; pubic hair" and indicated
moustache stuff. Holly and I acted appropriately shocked and averted our
eyes and squealed and said "Don't Show Us! It's not right" and such. But
he
said he figures leg hairiness, underarm hair and moustache are all pubic
hair
because he got them from puberty.
eeek!
Sandra<<
Eeeek, indeed! So I charged online to set young Marty straight, and darned
if he isn't pretty much on track. From
http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/besttest/alt/translat/trans92r.html:
"The pubescent are so called from pubis, that is, they get their name from
the private parts of the body because these first show the down of puberty.
Some think of puberty as a specific age, that is, they call 'pubescent'
someone who has reached the end of his fourteenth year, even though the
signs of puberty may appear much later. It is certain, however, that a child
has reached puberty when it shows the physical signs and can generate
children."
This is from the Aberdeen Bestiary Project, so of course I had to find out
what *that* was:
http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/besttest/alt/comment/wha_is_a.html
And it turns out it relates to medieval texts, which made me think of SCA,
and thus I arrived safely back where I started.
Karen
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/1/2002 8:55:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
maryfhickman@... writes:
FIX themselves, wouldn't our lives be SWEET? <g>
It is hard - don't beat up on yourself if you don't just "quit." Trying is
good though. I try all the time - Roxana can tell you, I'm sure, that I
definitely don't succeed 100 percent of the time <G>.
--pamS
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
maryfhickman@... writes:
> So while I know I am a big part of the problem, I see other's parts so muchYeah - don't we all, Mary. And - you know what? If everybody else would just
> clearer.
FIX themselves, wouldn't our lives be SWEET? <g>
>>She's probably correcting her brother because I seem set oncorrecting her. I'll quit. <<
It is hard - don't beat up on yourself if you don't just "quit." Trying is
good though. I try all the time - Roxana can tell you, I'm sure, that I
definitely don't succeed 100 percent of the time <G>.
--pamS
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
>>Yesterday Marty showed me his pubic hair. Yes, I twinged too.It was on his upper lip. He said, "Look, mom; pubic hair" and indicated
moustache stuff. Holly and I acted appropriately shocked and averted our
eyes and squealed and said "Don't Show Us! It's not right" and such. But
he
said he figures leg hairiness, underarm hair and moustache are all pubic
hair
because he got them from puberty.
eeek!
Sandra<<
A fine opportunity to drop in a little historical trivia. Remember the
Clarence Thomas conformation hearings? Anita Hill testified that he
made a tasteless joke about pubic hair, saying he had found one on his
can of soda? The media went kind of crazy saying "pubic hair" over and
over, like they were little kids having fun grossing out their friends.
But I'm pretty sure the underlying story was that he had just used a
hair from his head for an opportunity for some obnoxious adolescent humor.
Confirmation hearings for presidential appointments can be such a circus!
Everything is educational!
Do I even WANT to know if pubic hair has any other entries in the great
encyclopedia of history? Maybe not!
Betsy
Sharon Rudd
Ohhh, boys are so cute, sometimes....
Sharon of the Swamp
he figures leg hairiness, underarm hair and
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
Sharon of the Swamp
he figures leg hairiness, underarm hair and
> moustache are all pubic hair__________________________________________________
> because he got them from puberty.
>
> eeek!
>
> Sandra
>
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