college students
[email protected]
"The idea that the majority of students attend a university for an
education independent of the degree and grades is a hypocrisy everyone is
happier not to expose. Occasionally some students do arrive for an education
but rote and mechanical nature of the institution soon converts them to a
less idealic attitude"
- Robert M. Pirsig in the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintance"
Just ran across this quote -- and I thought how, when that book was written,
people DID pretend they were at universities REALLY for the education and
that the degree and grades were secondary. I very very very seldom see even
that pretense, anymore.
But I absolutely for real have seen that the unschooled kids ARE there to
learn and that degrees and grades are secondary to them.
-pam
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
education independent of the degree and grades is a hypocrisy everyone is
happier not to expose. Occasionally some students do arrive for an education
but rote and mechanical nature of the institution soon converts them to a
less idealic attitude"
- Robert M. Pirsig in the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintance"
Just ran across this quote -- and I thought how, when that book was written,
people DID pretend they were at universities REALLY for the education and
that the degree and grades were secondary. I very very very seldom see even
that pretense, anymore.
But I absolutely for real have seen that the unschooled kids ARE there to
learn and that degrees and grades are secondary to them.
-pam
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>Actually, I found it to be true when I went to college in the late 60's. I
>
>
>Just ran across this quote -- and I thought how, when that book was written,
>people DID pretend they were at universities REALLY for the education and
>that the degree and grades were secondary. I very very very seldom see even
>that pretense, anymore.
transferred to a state college from a community college and was shocked at
all the kids who were there just to party for 4 years and then collect
their piece of paper at the end. I even found many of the courses I took
to be easier than the ones I took at the community college. The community
college was a delightful place. I went there from a couple of years of
unschooling (there wasn't a name for it then) and found it to be an
exciting place, filled with people who were there because they wanted to be
there, for many different reasons.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/25/2002 5:23:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
leschke@... writes:
They did pretend to the professors, though, that they were there to learn. In
1976, if I asked a classroom full of students to write down on a card what
they hoped to get out of my class, they would be full of high-sounding
reasons. These days they'd be much more blunt - "I hope to pass because it is
a requirement to get my degree in business." THEN if you ask them why they
want to get a college degree at all? "To make more money." Straight out,
straight up - no hemming or hawing or beating around any bushes. Nobody is
even remotely embarrassed or has any sense that that is might be considered
(at least by the professors) a rather crass reason to be in college. That is
a big change from 25 years ago.
pam
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leschke@... writes:
> >Just ran across this quote -- and I thought how, when that book wasYes - I suppose there was little pretense among undergraduates themselves.
> written,
> >people DID pretend they were at universities REALLY for the education and
> >that the degree and grades were secondary. I very very very seldom see
> even
> >that pretense, anymore.
>
> Actually, I found it to be true when I went to college in the late 60's. I
>
> transferred to a state college from a community college and was shocked at
> all the kids who were there just to party for 4 years and then collect
> their piece of paper at the end.
They did pretend to the professors, though, that they were there to learn. In
1976, if I asked a classroom full of students to write down on a card what
they hoped to get out of my class, they would be full of high-sounding
reasons. These days they'd be much more blunt - "I hope to pass because it is
a requirement to get my degree in business." THEN if you ask them why they
want to get a college degree at all? "To make more money." Straight out,
straight up - no hemming or hawing or beating around any bushes. Nobody is
even remotely embarrassed or has any sense that that is might be considered
(at least by the professors) a rather crass reason to be in college. That is
a big change from 25 years ago.
pam
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kate Green
I teach Arab women here in the UAE and the majority of them are going to
college for something to do (life is very boring when you have tons of
money but aren't allowed to leave the house) or to delay marriage. However
there are about 20% of them who are so hungry to learn that it's amazing.
Much higher percentage than in western universities I think.
My mom started a Ph.D program last winter. As a teacher she will get a $30
raise per month when she finishes however she will almost be ready for
retirement. She calls me to share things she has read and is excited about
spending hours studying. Watching her enthusiasm about learning is joyful
and contagious. Perhaps the trick of higher ed is to stay away until you
discover who you are and what you truly enjoy.
Kate
college for something to do (life is very boring when you have tons of
money but aren't allowed to leave the house) or to delay marriage. However
there are about 20% of them who are so hungry to learn that it's amazing.
Much higher percentage than in western universities I think.
My mom started a Ph.D program last winter. As a teacher she will get a $30
raise per month when she finishes however she will almost be ready for
retirement. She calls me to share things she has read and is excited about
spending hours studying. Watching her enthusiasm about learning is joyful
and contagious. Perhaps the trick of higher ed is to stay away until you
discover who you are and what you truly enjoy.
Kate
>written,
> Just ran across this quote -- and I thought how, when that book was
> people DID pretend they were at universities REALLY for the education and
> that the degree and grades were secondary. I very very very seldom see even
> that pretense, anymore.
>
> But I absolutely for real have seen that the unschooled kids ARE there to
> learn and that degrees and grades are secondary to them.
>
>
> -pam
> National Home Education Network
> http://www.NHEN.org
> Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/26/2002 4:53:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
college (Hampshire College in Amherst, MA) and genuinely found most of the
people who were there really wanted to learn. Or, at least, were not just
jumping through hoops to get a credential. (There were others who were there
learning in Alternative alternative ways, but they eventually left because
their parents figured they could do that somewhere else, cheaper.)
After graduation, I signed up to do alum admissions interviews. They only
required interviews in iffy situations, and one required interviiew I got was
from a very straight-laced kid who had a 4.0, Eagle Scout, high SATs, wanting
to major in Computer Science, etc...all the things most colleges lust after
in a potential student.
Hampshire needed to know...Why us? Do you know what you're getting into?
When i talked to him, I discovered why. (Parents had met at Woodstock, wanted
to learn and discover stuff, not just get a degree...) He went to Hampshire,
and loved it.
I actually transferred to Hampshire from a traditional college. I was bored.
I figured if I went to Hampshire and was bored, it was my own damned fault.
Kathryn, whose mother recently said, "Too bad we didn't know about the
homeschooling stuff for you."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> > >Just ran across this quote -- and I thought how, when that book wasI have a slightly different perspective. I went to an alternative, hippy
> > written,
> > >people DID pretend they were at universities REALLY for the education
> and
> > >that the degree and grades were secondary. I very very very seldom see
> > even
> > >that pretense, anymore.
> >
> > Actually, I found it to be true when I went to college in the late 60's.
> I
> >
> > transferred to a state college from a community college and was shocked
> at
> > all the kids who were there just to party for 4 years and then collect
> > their piece of paper at the end.
>
> Yes - I suppose there was little pretense among undergraduates themselves.
>
> They did pretend to the professors, though, that they were there to learn.
> In
> 1976, if I asked a classroom full of students to write down on a card what
> they hoped to get out of my class, they would be full of high-sounding
> reasons. These days they'd be much more blunt - "I hope to pass because it
> is
> a requirement to get my degree in business." THEN if you ask them why they
> want to get a college degree at all? "To make more money." Straight out,
> straight up - no hemming or hawing or beating around any bushes. Nobody is
> even remotely embarrassed or has any sense that that is might be considered
>
> (at least by the professors) a rather crass reason to be in college. That
> is
> a big change from 25 years ago
college (Hampshire College in Amherst, MA) and genuinely found most of the
people who were there really wanted to learn. Or, at least, were not just
jumping through hoops to get a credential. (There were others who were there
learning in Alternative alternative ways, but they eventually left because
their parents figured they could do that somewhere else, cheaper.)
After graduation, I signed up to do alum admissions interviews. They only
required interviews in iffy situations, and one required interviiew I got was
from a very straight-laced kid who had a 4.0, Eagle Scout, high SATs, wanting
to major in Computer Science, etc...all the things most colleges lust after
in a potential student.
Hampshire needed to know...Why us? Do you know what you're getting into?
When i talked to him, I discovered why. (Parents had met at Woodstock, wanted
to learn and discover stuff, not just get a degree...) He went to Hampshire,
and loved it.
I actually transferred to Hampshire from a traditional college. I was bored.
I figured if I went to Hampshire and was bored, it was my own damned fault.
Kathryn, whose mother recently said, "Too bad we didn't know about the
homeschooling stuff for you."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>Watching her enthusiasm about learning is joyfulProbably true of any kind of "education from the outside in".
>and contagious. Perhaps the trick of higher ed is to stay away until you
>discover who you are and what you truly enjoy.
My niece is going into grade 12 next year. When I asked if she had any
plans for the future, she said she wanted to go to university and
travel. When I suggested travelling first, she told me about a friend who
did the first year at home and then got scholarships to travel and study
abroad after that. She never did tell me what she thought she might want
to *do* with that education.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island