[AlwaysLearning] structure
carolyn
Hi,
Recently, in talking about wanting to go back to school instead of homeschooling,
my dd (11) complained that with homeschooling she has "too much freedom" and
doesn't "do anything", she's "too lazy", and needs school "to make me do and
learn things".
She also wants to go to the HSC homeschooling conference in Sacramento next month
because she had so much fun there last year. I couldn't see spending the money
for that if she was just going to decide to go back to school the following month
and ultimately, she has decided to homeschool for "another year". This will be
our third.
I want to help her with her frustrations and I'm trying to find a way to give her
the "structure" (if that's what it is) that she seems to need. Sometimes she
pulls out the Saxon book and says she is going todo it everyday (part of her plan
to go back to school, I think) but it never lasts for more than one day.
Sometimes she asks me to make her do stuff.
I offered to structure a whole day like I think middle school will be. After she
heard about it, she didn't want to do it. I offer ideas all the time, places to
go, things to do, etc. and most of the time I get a no answer. Sometimes, she'll
tell me the next day -- "you should have made me go".
I'm increasingly frustrated. I don't feel like I am giving her what she needs
but I don't really understand what she is wanting/needing. She doesn't seem to
be thriving with "all this freedom". Mostly, she sleeps half the day, watches
TV, plays the computer, reads a lot and plays with friends. She volunteers at
the library once a week and we always eat lunch out on Tuesdays where she always
eats the same lunch. That got me thinking. What if we had certain days
scheduled to do certain things, things she likes to do so that she knows which
type of activity we're doing on certain days. I'd give her a list of ideas and
she could pick and choose and add her own and then she'll set the schedule and
then she'll "have to do it", assuming of course that she agrees to it up front.
What do you think? I have tried so hard to give her as much freedom as I can,
this is all feeling backwards to me. I'd love ideas/opinions, etc. And thanks
for reading all this.
Carolyn
Recently, in talking about wanting to go back to school instead of homeschooling,
my dd (11) complained that with homeschooling she has "too much freedom" and
doesn't "do anything", she's "too lazy", and needs school "to make me do and
learn things".
She also wants to go to the HSC homeschooling conference in Sacramento next month
because she had so much fun there last year. I couldn't see spending the money
for that if she was just going to decide to go back to school the following month
and ultimately, she has decided to homeschool for "another year". This will be
our third.
I want to help her with her frustrations and I'm trying to find a way to give her
the "structure" (if that's what it is) that she seems to need. Sometimes she
pulls out the Saxon book and says she is going todo it everyday (part of her plan
to go back to school, I think) but it never lasts for more than one day.
Sometimes she asks me to make her do stuff.
I offered to structure a whole day like I think middle school will be. After she
heard about it, she didn't want to do it. I offer ideas all the time, places to
go, things to do, etc. and most of the time I get a no answer. Sometimes, she'll
tell me the next day -- "you should have made me go".
I'm increasingly frustrated. I don't feel like I am giving her what she needs
but I don't really understand what she is wanting/needing. She doesn't seem to
be thriving with "all this freedom". Mostly, she sleeps half the day, watches
TV, plays the computer, reads a lot and plays with friends. She volunteers at
the library once a week and we always eat lunch out on Tuesdays where she always
eats the same lunch. That got me thinking. What if we had certain days
scheduled to do certain things, things she likes to do so that she knows which
type of activity we're doing on certain days. I'd give her a list of ideas and
she could pick and choose and add her own and then she'll set the schedule and
then she'll "have to do it", assuming of course that she agrees to it up front.
What do you think? I have tried so hard to give her as much freedom as I can,
this is all feeling backwards to me. I'd love ideas/opinions, etc. And thanks
for reading all this.
Carolyn
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/22/02 8:38:53 PM, nielsonc@... writes:
<< I'd give her a list of ideas and
she could pick and choose and add her own and then she'll set the schedule and
then she'll "have to do it", assuming of course that she agrees to it up
front.
<<What do you think? >>
I think that would be fine. I like knowing where I have to be which days and
working around that.
Maybe she would like to go to an office supply store and look at wall
calendars with hours on them, or maybe a planning calendar book (thought it
would have to be where you could both get to it, maybe). There are come
computer calendars that pop up with what's to do that day.
I always get green chile chicken enchiladas. Whatever else they might have
at the restaurant it's not going to be better than that. When I did Baskin
Robbins as a teen and 20's person, I'd look at every flavor and then get the
same favorite two.
<<I offer ideas all the time, places to
go, things to do, etc. and most of the time I get a no answer. Sometimes,
she'll
tell me the next day -- "you should have made me go".>>
The I offer ideas all the time, places to
go, things to do, etc. and most of the time I get a no answer. Sometimes,
she'll
tell me the next day -- "you should have made me go".way I get myself and my
kids to go places is to arrange to go with another family. There are two
other homeschooling families we get together with once a month or so
(separately with each family, I mean). And since they're going to meet us
there, we HAVE to be there a certain time. It's twice as fun for the kids to
see the other families, too. One family has no older kids, so Kirby and
Marty don't always go. But the other family we've known since La Leche
League, and their teenaged girl will only go if Kirby and Marty are there,
and vice versa. So it's a way to bestir teens to go see the butterfly
pavilion or to go on a picnic (the two most recent examples <g>).
Maybe at the end of each day you could write down what she did and learned
which was NOT on the schedule, for a while, until she sees that it's not
"nothing." And perhaps be being aware that it will be reviewed and listed
she'll be more aware of what she's doing? And by noting what she really
enjoyed, you and she could plan for more of it--more time, more materials,
whatever.
She just doesn't know what "nothing" is if she's not going to school.....
Sandra
<< I'd give her a list of ideas and
she could pick and choose and add her own and then she'll set the schedule and
then she'll "have to do it", assuming of course that she agrees to it up
front.
<<What do you think? >>
I think that would be fine. I like knowing where I have to be which days and
working around that.
Maybe she would like to go to an office supply store and look at wall
calendars with hours on them, or maybe a planning calendar book (thought it
would have to be where you could both get to it, maybe). There are come
computer calendars that pop up with what's to do that day.
I always get green chile chicken enchiladas. Whatever else they might have
at the restaurant it's not going to be better than that. When I did Baskin
Robbins as a teen and 20's person, I'd look at every flavor and then get the
same favorite two.
<<I offer ideas all the time, places to
go, things to do, etc. and most of the time I get a no answer. Sometimes,
she'll
tell me the next day -- "you should have made me go".>>
The I offer ideas all the time, places to
go, things to do, etc. and most of the time I get a no answer. Sometimes,
she'll
tell me the next day -- "you should have made me go".way I get myself and my
kids to go places is to arrange to go with another family. There are two
other homeschooling families we get together with once a month or so
(separately with each family, I mean). And since they're going to meet us
there, we HAVE to be there a certain time. It's twice as fun for the kids to
see the other families, too. One family has no older kids, so Kirby and
Marty don't always go. But the other family we've known since La Leche
League, and their teenaged girl will only go if Kirby and Marty are there,
and vice versa. So it's a way to bestir teens to go see the butterfly
pavilion or to go on a picnic (the two most recent examples <g>).
Maybe at the end of each day you could write down what she did and learned
which was NOT on the schedule, for a while, until she sees that it's not
"nothing." And perhaps be being aware that it will be reviewed and listed
she'll be more aware of what she's doing? And by noting what she really
enjoyed, you and she could plan for more of it--more time, more materials,
whatever.
She just doesn't know what "nothing" is if she's not going to school.....
Sandra
[email protected]
Are some of her friends public school kids? Because that sounds so much
like the talk public school kids get from their parents about why "they"
can't homeschool and the kids in turn pass it along to their homeschooled
friends.
This is really fresh right now because this is the stuff my niece was
talking when she was here, and last year she wanted to homeschool. Now,
because she's heard it from her mom, she "knows" she needs someone to
"make" her do schoolwork, etc. She'd be too lazy to homeschool. Ooh,
it's just spooky you brought this up.<g>
Also, maybe she's a little bored.
Maybe instead of structure she could do with a gentle reminder that no
one needs to be controlled by anyone else. And maybe she could use some
new scenery, new things to do, new places to explore. Maybe she's just
in a rut. Maybe you are too, and getting out and diving into some new
museum or town or festival or whatever would be a good place to start.
It really doesn't sound like she's interested in structure if she doesn't
want a middle school curriculum and doesn't want to do the math text
book. ( I don't blame her.)
You said "Mostly, she sleeps half the day", ... and it sounds here, a
little, like you might not be crazy about this. Have you said to her, or
could she be picking up cues from you that you think she's "too lazy"?
I think getting out and doing something really fun together three or four
days a week, hiking, fishing, rock climbing ( there are indoor climbing
walls, too ) will give you both some easy time to talk and some answers
about what she really needs.
Deb L
like the talk public school kids get from their parents about why "they"
can't homeschool and the kids in turn pass it along to their homeschooled
friends.
This is really fresh right now because this is the stuff my niece was
talking when she was here, and last year she wanted to homeschool. Now,
because she's heard it from her mom, she "knows" she needs someone to
"make" her do schoolwork, etc. She'd be too lazy to homeschool. Ooh,
it's just spooky you brought this up.<g>
Also, maybe she's a little bored.
Maybe instead of structure she could do with a gentle reminder that no
one needs to be controlled by anyone else. And maybe she could use some
new scenery, new things to do, new places to explore. Maybe she's just
in a rut. Maybe you are too, and getting out and diving into some new
museum or town or festival or whatever would be a good place to start.
It really doesn't sound like she's interested in structure if she doesn't
want a middle school curriculum and doesn't want to do the math text
book. ( I don't blame her.)
You said "Mostly, she sleeps half the day", ... and it sounds here, a
little, like you might not be crazy about this. Have you said to her, or
could she be picking up cues from you that you think she's "too lazy"?
I think getting out and doing something really fun together three or four
days a week, hiking, fishing, rock climbing ( there are indoor climbing
walls, too ) will give you both some easy time to talk and some answers
about what she really needs.
Deb L
Dan Vilter
on 7/22/02 7:36 PM, carolyn at nielsonc@... wrote:
snip
Offering and *doing* things are quite different. It has been said here that
unschooling is leading an active life. Maybe she just needs an excuse to do
things. How about doing something *you* like to do, that you know she would
enjoy, and letting her join you of her own free will? Don't offer, just do
it. If you pick something interesting or exciting or fun, I'll bet she'll
join you. And you'll have enjoyable days of doing things together. This
takes the pressure off of her to decide what to do. She can find lots of
structure with parents that do things with her. By structure I don't mean
scheduling. Active, interested parents that do fun and interesting things at
dawn or midnight or anytime gives a structure to life for the living of it.
I don't think I would last more than a day in a Saxon book either.
What is the harm in going to the conference? I can't think why going to
school later would be harmed by all the group activity of the conference.
With all the positive reasons to go, it seems to be money well spent
regardless of future plans. I'll bet you have fun there too.
See you at the talent show.
-Dan Vilter
snip
> I offer ideas all the time, places to go, things to do, etc. and most of theSnip
> time I get a no answer. Sometimes, she'll tell me the next day -- "you should
> have made me go".
Offering and *doing* things are quite different. It has been said here that
unschooling is leading an active life. Maybe she just needs an excuse to do
things. How about doing something *you* like to do, that you know she would
enjoy, and letting her join you of her own free will? Don't offer, just do
it. If you pick something interesting or exciting or fun, I'll bet she'll
join you. And you'll have enjoyable days of doing things together. This
takes the pressure off of her to decide what to do. She can find lots of
structure with parents that do things with her. By structure I don't mean
scheduling. Active, interested parents that do fun and interesting things at
dawn or midnight or anytime gives a structure to life for the living of it.
I don't think I would last more than a day in a Saxon book either.
What is the harm in going to the conference? I can't think why going to
school later would be harmed by all the group activity of the conference.
With all the positive reasons to go, it seems to be money well spent
regardless of future plans. I'll bet you have fun there too.
See you at the talent show.
-Dan Vilter
Windy
Sometimes I need something to *force* me out of the house too and my son is
the same way. If we actually get out we have a great time but there is
almost always that initial *I don't want to go* feeling. Just take her and
go. Don't ask her first, just say "we're going...." and go. I don't know
why we're like that. We're just homebodies I suppose. Once we get back
(assuming it was a morning thing) the momentum carries us through to a lot
of other things at home. When we stay at home all day the pace stays pretty
slow.
Just my thoughts ~
Cheryl
the same way. If we actually get out we have a great time but there is
almost always that initial *I don't want to go* feeling. Just take her and
go. Don't ask her first, just say "we're going...." and go. I don't know
why we're like that. We're just homebodies I suppose. Once we get back
(assuming it was a morning thing) the momentum carries us through to a lot
of other things at home. When we stay at home all day the pace stays pretty
slow.
Just my thoughts ~
Cheryl
----- Original Message -----
From: "carolyn" <nielsonc@...>
> I offered to structure a whole day like I think middle school will be.
After she
> heard about it, she didn't want to do it. I offer ideas all the time,
places to
> go, things to do, etc. and most of the time I get a no answer. Sometimes,
she'll
> tell me the next day -- "you should have made me go".
[email protected]
Hi Carolyn -
What I hear from your description of your daughter is self-judgment,
self-criticism....dissatisfaction....
Like you, I believe that her motivation for structure will come from
within....
Her days are perfect.....she is perfect....when she wants to 'learn', she can
come to you with an idea and you are available to make it happen....sounds
perfect.....she probably won't always spend her days this way.....
Perhaps, she is in a restless place right now....perhaps this is the quiet
before the storm....perhaps she feels bored and lazy....and perhaps it is
exactly that boredom and laziness that will guide her to something
fantastic....
Imagine having a year or few months to be lazy and bored....imagine what you
might find in your heart and soul to pursue once all the dust has settled and
some real clarity is available.....
When my daughter says she is bored....I get a gleam in my eye....I say, "oh
my....you have nothing that interests you to do right now! What will you
come up with?!" And really, it is typically something incredible (imo) like
painting or cooking or creating....she tries something really different when
she's in 'that place'.....I tell her that boredom is good...and that
restlessness is good.....I suggest she not watch TV but wait and walk around
and see what comes up.....sometimes it's pulling out an old computer game and
making great progress.....who knows?!
Do you ever feel that restlessness? Perhaps you feel it now with her....take
a trip to clear the cobwebs....do something different for a day for a change
in scenery....any pretty places to go and watch clouds and listen to her
dream and put ideas together?.....
Perhaps she is reflecting your own relestness and boredom....be sure to take
care of yourself....pursue your own interests.....perhaps tell her that you
have confidence that she'll figure out something to do and to please let you
know how you can support her but in the meantime, wanna go with me for a bike
ride, to the museum, to a movie? wanna look at old pics with me while I work
on my scrapbook? And get going on your own life.....
IMO, freedom is good....structure has its purpose....but structure for the
sake of structure? or structure for the sake of 'learning'? I'd have to
think/hear about those some more.....IMO, structure works when there is
project or motivation to do something....otherwise, to me, it is oppressive
and then I feel the failure when I can't/won't follow the schedule I set
up....I'm working more on the 'being in the moment' side of the pendulum and
over scheduling interferes....
I think your daughter is on the verge of something magical....I would say to
not interfere and take on the schoolmaster role.....I like the idea of taking
her to the office supplies store to support her interest in structure.....
Allow her to feel restless.....help her to realize her perfection.....
Then let us know where she goes with it!
Best wishes!
Jane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What I hear from your description of your daughter is self-judgment,
self-criticism....dissatisfaction....
Like you, I believe that her motivation for structure will come from
within....
Her days are perfect.....she is perfect....when she wants to 'learn', she can
come to you with an idea and you are available to make it happen....sounds
perfect.....she probably won't always spend her days this way.....
Perhaps, she is in a restless place right now....perhaps this is the quiet
before the storm....perhaps she feels bored and lazy....and perhaps it is
exactly that boredom and laziness that will guide her to something
fantastic....
Imagine having a year or few months to be lazy and bored....imagine what you
might find in your heart and soul to pursue once all the dust has settled and
some real clarity is available.....
When my daughter says she is bored....I get a gleam in my eye....I say, "oh
my....you have nothing that interests you to do right now! What will you
come up with?!" And really, it is typically something incredible (imo) like
painting or cooking or creating....she tries something really different when
she's in 'that place'.....I tell her that boredom is good...and that
restlessness is good.....I suggest she not watch TV but wait and walk around
and see what comes up.....sometimes it's pulling out an old computer game and
making great progress.....who knows?!
Do you ever feel that restlessness? Perhaps you feel it now with her....take
a trip to clear the cobwebs....do something different for a day for a change
in scenery....any pretty places to go and watch clouds and listen to her
dream and put ideas together?.....
Perhaps she is reflecting your own relestness and boredom....be sure to take
care of yourself....pursue your own interests.....perhaps tell her that you
have confidence that she'll figure out something to do and to please let you
know how you can support her but in the meantime, wanna go with me for a bike
ride, to the museum, to a movie? wanna look at old pics with me while I work
on my scrapbook? And get going on your own life.....
IMO, freedom is good....structure has its purpose....but structure for the
sake of structure? or structure for the sake of 'learning'? I'd have to
think/hear about those some more.....IMO, structure works when there is
project or motivation to do something....otherwise, to me, it is oppressive
and then I feel the failure when I can't/won't follow the schedule I set
up....I'm working more on the 'being in the moment' side of the pendulum and
over scheduling interferes....
I think your daughter is on the verge of something magical....I would say to
not interfere and take on the schoolmaster role.....I like the idea of taking
her to the office supplies store to support her interest in structure.....
Allow her to feel restless.....help her to realize her perfection.....
Then let us know where she goes with it!
Best wishes!
Jane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/22/2002 11:32:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
spend (what HE thinks) too much time playing one or two computer games, and
is disappointed after that he didn't do other things. So he signs up for
classes/trips that interest him, and periodically asks me to "nudge." I can
relate....when I don't have some structure I can get distracted from things I
really do want to do.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> I want to help her with her frustrations and I'm trying to find a way toMy son Julian, almost 13, often wants a bit more structure. Without it, he'll
> give her
> the "structure" (if that's what it is) that she seems to need. Sometimes
> she
> pulls out the Saxon book and says she is going todo it everyday (part of
> her plan
> to go back to school, I think) but it never lasts for more than one day.
> Sometimes she asks me to make her do stuff.
>
> I offered to structure a whole day like I think middle school will be.
> After she
> heard about it, she didn't want to do it. I offer ideas all the time,
> places to
> go, things to do, etc. and most of the time I get a no answer. Sometimes,
> she'll
> tell me the next day -- "you should have made me go".
>
spend (what HE thinks) too much time playing one or two computer games, and
is disappointed after that he didn't do other things. So he signs up for
classes/trips that interest him, and periodically asks me to "nudge." I can
relate....when I don't have some structure I can get distracted from things I
really do want to do.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/23/02 7:38:38 AM, jsutfran@... writes:
<< Perhaps, she is in a restless place right now....perhaps this is the quiet
before the storm....perhaps she feels bored and lazy....and perhaps it is
exactly that boredom and laziness that will guide her to something
fantastic.... >>
I get like that, and I've seen it in my kids. Just antsy, twitchy,
discontent. And then it's like the sun comes out and they (or I!) get all
interested in some new project or get the urge to clean a room, or something.
It's almost like the difference between being asleep and awake sometimes.
Or like a caterpillar and a butterfly. So they're probably very natural
cycles.
Good point, Jane.
<<IMO, freedom is good....structure has its purpose....but structure for the
sake of structure? or structure for the sake of 'learning'? I'd have to
think/hear about those some more.....>>
I supported strudturing helping her make a schedule, because I have some
friends who LOVE their lists and schedules. I personally love my getting up
and stretching and having ONE thing I want to do at a certain time and the
rest of the day a big blank with a couple of vague checklists in my head that
I allow myself to either ignore or get right on as the urge strikes.
Even just my description above probably is sending some people for the
medications. LOL!!
But when I have a deadline and something has to be turned in the next day,
I'm ON IT and I do it.
A measured, sensible schedule has never appealed to me or worked for me, but
some people would go nuts without one!
I don't think it should be for the sake of learning to schedule, or with the
intent or belief that learning needs to be (or CAN be) scheduled.
Sandra
<< Perhaps, she is in a restless place right now....perhaps this is the quiet
before the storm....perhaps she feels bored and lazy....and perhaps it is
exactly that boredom and laziness that will guide her to something
fantastic.... >>
I get like that, and I've seen it in my kids. Just antsy, twitchy,
discontent. And then it's like the sun comes out and they (or I!) get all
interested in some new project or get the urge to clean a room, or something.
It's almost like the difference between being asleep and awake sometimes.
Or like a caterpillar and a butterfly. So they're probably very natural
cycles.
Good point, Jane.
<<IMO, freedom is good....structure has its purpose....but structure for the
sake of structure? or structure for the sake of 'learning'? I'd have to
think/hear about those some more.....>>
I supported strudturing helping her make a schedule, because I have some
friends who LOVE their lists and schedules. I personally love my getting up
and stretching and having ONE thing I want to do at a certain time and the
rest of the day a big blank with a couple of vague checklists in my head that
I allow myself to either ignore or get right on as the urge strikes.
Even just my description above probably is sending some people for the
medications. LOL!!
But when I have a deadline and something has to be turned in the next day,
I'm ON IT and I do it.
A measured, sensible schedule has never appealed to me or worked for me, but
some people would go nuts without one!
I don't think it should be for the sake of learning to schedule, or with the
intent or belief that learning needs to be (or CAN be) scheduled.
Sandra
Betsy
**
I personally love my getting up
and stretching and having ONE thing I want to do at a certain time and
the
rest of the day a big blank with a couple of vague checklists in my head
that I allow myself to either ignore or get right on as the urge
strikes. **
Yeah, I figured this same thing about myself in college. Sometimes I
had just one class on Thursdays, at 9am, and then was free for the rest
of the day. Which was a great feeling. Sometimes I had a day with no
classes at all. That didn't work as well, as I tended to sludge around
in my bathrobe all day.
Betsy
I personally love my getting up
and stretching and having ONE thing I want to do at a certain time and
the
rest of the day a big blank with a couple of vague checklists in my head
that I allow myself to either ignore or get right on as the urge
strikes. **
Yeah, I figured this same thing about myself in college. Sometimes I
had just one class on Thursdays, at 9am, and then was free for the rest
of the day. Which was a great feeling. Sometimes I had a day with no
classes at all. That didn't work as well, as I tended to sludge around
in my bathrobe all day.
Betsy
Nancy Wooton
on 7/23/02 8:21 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
farmers? The hunters are like you -- ready to take advantage of what comes
along, while the farmers plan ahead. School is designed to make farmers of
everyone, and is unable to cope with the hunters, so they label them -- ADD.
See:
http://www.thomhartmann.com/articles.shtml
It's a fascinating site (although they do have books to sell <g>)
The article about empowering girls is *great*! (I'm distracting myself
reading it right now <g>)
http://www.thomhartmann.com/empower.shtml
Nancy
> I supported strudturing helping her make a schedule, because I have someHave you ever read/heard about the concept that people are either hunters or
> friends who LOVE their lists and schedules. I personally love my getting up
> and stretching and having ONE thing I want to do at a certain time and the
> rest of the day a big blank with a couple of vague checklists in my head that
> I allow myself to either ignore or get right on as the urge strikes.
>
> Even just my description above probably is sending some people for the
> medications. LOL!!
>
> But when I have a deadline and something has to be turned in the next day,
> I'm ON IT and I do it.
>
> A measured, sensible schedule has never appealed to me or worked for me, but
> some people would go nuts without one!
farmers? The hunters are like you -- ready to take advantage of what comes
along, while the farmers plan ahead. School is designed to make farmers of
everyone, and is unable to cope with the hunters, so they label them -- ADD.
See:
http://www.thomhartmann.com/articles.shtml
It's a fascinating site (although they do have books to sell <g>)
The article about empowering girls is *great*! (I'm distracting myself
reading it right now <g>)
http://www.thomhartmann.com/empower.shtml
Nancy
Shyrley
We've decided to Amtrak down to New Mexico and explore bits of
NM, Arizona and go to the Grand Canyon.
Anyone tell me what else there is too see plus when we should
go? I thought November might be cooler weather.
Hopefully we'll get to meet Sandra and a few other people while we
are there.
Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."
NM, Arizona and go to the Grand Canyon.
Anyone tell me what else there is too see plus when we should
go? I thought November might be cooler weather.
Hopefully we'll get to meet Sandra and a few other people while we
are there.
Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."
Amy
My son Julian, almost 13, often wants a bit more structure. Without it,
he'll
spend (what HE thinks) too much time playing one or two computer games, and
is disappointed after that he didn't do other things. So he signs up for
classes/trips that interest him, and periodically asks me to "nudge." I can
relate....when I don't have some structure I can get distracted from things
I
really do want to do.
I think I'd respond to my child telling me plainly to "make him" do
something in the same way I'd respond to a request to read to him or help
him with spelling a word. I'd do my best to help in a loving way. I'm not
talking about physically dragging him screaming somewhere because he
previously asked me to force him. But if it will help for me to say "Now
it's time to go, so let's go" regardless of whether he's enthusiastic, I
will (and do) do that.
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
he'll
spend (what HE thinks) too much time playing one or two computer games, and
is disappointed after that he didn't do other things. So he signs up for
classes/trips that interest him, and periodically asks me to "nudge." I can
relate....when I don't have some structure I can get distracted from things
I
really do want to do.
I think I'd respond to my child telling me plainly to "make him" do
something in the same way I'd respond to a request to read to him or help
him with spelling a word. I'd do my best to help in a loving way. I'm not
talking about physically dragging him screaming somewhere because he
previously asked me to force him. But if it will help for me to say "Now
it's time to go, so let's go" regardless of whether he's enthusiastic, I
will (and do) do that.
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amy
oops, sorry for including the previous message - it looks like I wrote it
all. I didn't - my post starts with 'I think I'd respond...'
Amy
-----Original Message-----
From: Amy [mailto:listmail@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Re: structure
My son Julian, almost 13, often wants a bit more structure. Without it,
he'll
spend (what HE thinks) too much time playing one or two computer games,
and
is disappointed after that he didn't do other things. So he signs up for
classes/trips that interest him, and periodically asks me to "nudge." I
can
relate....when I don't have some structure I can get distracted from
things
I
really do want to do.
I think I'd respond to my child telling me plainly to "make him" do
something in the same way I'd respond to a request to read to him or help
him with spelling a word. I'd do my best to help in a loving way. I'm not
talking about physically dragging him screaming somewhere because he
previously asked me to force him. But if it will help for me to say "Now
it's time to go, so let's go" regardless of whether he's enthusiastic, I
will (and do) do that.
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
all. I didn't - my post starts with 'I think I'd respond...'
Amy
-----Original Message-----
From: Amy [mailto:listmail@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Re: structure
My son Julian, almost 13, often wants a bit more structure. Without it,
he'll
spend (what HE thinks) too much time playing one or two computer games,
and
is disappointed after that he didn't do other things. So he signs up for
classes/trips that interest him, and periodically asks me to "nudge." I
can
relate....when I don't have some structure I can get distracted from
things
I
really do want to do.
I think I'd respond to my child telling me plainly to "make him" do
something in the same way I'd respond to a request to read to him or help
him with spelling a word. I'd do my best to help in a loving way. I'm not
talking about physically dragging him screaming somewhere because he
previously asked me to force him. But if it will help for me to say "Now
it's time to go, so let's go" regardless of whether he's enthusiastic, I
will (and do) do that.
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
DARN> I tried to cut and paste something from google and lost my writing!
November is good for New Mexico and Arizona.
Albuquerque has some very good museums. If you go there you might get the
urge to go other places because of what you see there. Or you might see
things there that will satisfy your need and you can cross those places off
the list.
There is a phone number to call to get a vacation guide/touristy thing. And
I think you might want to get New Mexico Magazine, at least a sample issue.
I just sent some to the thrift store. :-/ (OH! Maybe they're still in the
back of the van...)
In a separate post so as not to lose this I'll send the other info.
Sandra
November is good for New Mexico and Arizona.
Albuquerque has some very good museums. If you go there you might get the
urge to go other places because of what you see there. Or you might see
things there that will satisfy your need and you can cross those places off
the list.
There is a phone number to call to get a vacation guide/touristy thing. And
I think you might want to get New Mexico Magazine, at least a sample issue.
I just sent some to the thrift store. :-/ (OH! Maybe they're still in the
back of the van...)
In a separate post so as not to lose this I'll send the other info.
Sandra
[email protected]
New Mexico Magazine
http://www.nmmagazine.com/
Maybe you don't need any on paper, their site is so cool now!!
For further travel information or a free copy of the New Mexico 2002 Vacation
Guide call the State Department of Tourism at (800) 733-6396, (505) 827-7400,
write 491 Old Santa Fe Trail, Santa Fe, N.M. 87501, or visit them on the Web
at www.newmexico.org, E-mail: enchantment@....
http://www.nmmagazine.com/
Maybe you don't need any on paper, their site is so cool now!!
For further travel information or a free copy of the New Mexico 2002 Vacation
Guide call the State Department of Tourism at (800) 733-6396, (505) 827-7400,
write 491 Old Santa Fe Trail, Santa Fe, N.M. 87501, or visit them on the Web
at www.newmexico.org, E-mail: enchantment@....
Joylyn
And the zoo is one of what, the top 10 in the country! It's a wonderful
zoo, as is the natural history museum.
I wanna come!
Joylyn
SandraDodd@... wrote:
zoo, as is the natural history museum.
I wanna come!
Joylyn
SandraDodd@... wrote:
> DARN> I tried to cut and paste something from google and lost myADVERTISEMENT
> writing!
>
> November is good for New Mexico and Arizona.
>
> Albuquerque has some very good museums. If you go there you might get
> the
> urge to go other places because of what you see there. Or you might
> see
> things there that will satisfy your need and you can cross those
> places off
> the list.
>
> There is a phone number to call to get a vacation guide/touristy
> thing. And
> I think you might want to get New Mexico Magazine, at least a sample
> issue.
> I just sent some to the thrift store. :-/ (OH! Maybe they're still
> in the
> back of the van...)
>
> In a separate post so as not to lose this I'll send the other info.
>
> Sandra
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/23/02 1:03:43 PM, joylyn@... writes:
<< And the zoo is one of what, the top 10 in the country! It's a wonderful
zoo, as is the natural history museum. >>
And we have the bio-park now, in addition. An aquarium, a butterfly pavilion
and some dumb plants in some big buildings. ("Botanical gardens"--one
Mediterranean and one desert--like exotic desert, like Arizona stuff! <bwg>)
Sandra
<< And the zoo is one of what, the top 10 in the country! It's a wonderful
zoo, as is the natural history museum. >>
And we have the bio-park now, in addition. An aquarium, a butterfly pavilion
and some dumb plants in some big buildings. ("Botanical gardens"--one
Mediterranean and one desert--like exotic desert, like Arizona stuff! <bwg>)
Sandra
Shyrley
On 23 Jul 02, at 14:01, Shyrley wrote:
:-)
Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."
>That was like a huge hint for people to say 'hey, come see me!'
> We've decided to Amtrak down to New Mexico and explore bits of
> NM, Arizona and go to the Grand Canyon.
> Anyone tell me what else there is too see plus when we should
> go? I thought November might be cooler weather.
> Hopefully we'll get to meet Sandra and a few other people while we are
> there.
>
> Shyrley
>
>
:-)
Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/23/02 2:21:22 PM, shyrley.williams@... writes:
<< That was like a huge hint for people to say 'hey, come see me!' >>
well when I send you Albuquerque info and say you should just go to the
museums in Albuquerque, that's a big "come see me" from me.
And there is this sad truth about New Mexico: Trains don't go all over.
Passenger trains are rare. And the Santa Fe Railroad!?? No train station in
Santa Fe. Lamy, a.k.a. the middle of nowhere, is the closest. But
Albuquerque has a train station in a convenient location. And I know very
well where it is. And I have a house. In a convenient location. And you
can come and visit me if you want to!
Sandra Dodd
<< That was like a huge hint for people to say 'hey, come see me!' >>
well when I send you Albuquerque info and say you should just go to the
museums in Albuquerque, that's a big "come see me" from me.
And there is this sad truth about New Mexico: Trains don't go all over.
Passenger trains are rare. And the Santa Fe Railroad!?? No train station in
Santa Fe. Lamy, a.k.a. the middle of nowhere, is the closest. But
Albuquerque has a train station in a convenient location. And I know very
well where it is. And I have a house. In a convenient location. And you
can come and visit me if you want to!
Sandra Dodd
Karin
shyrley.williams@... wrote:
not too hot or too cold yet.
You'll be coming through Flagstaff on Amtrack, on your way to the Grand
Canyon.
Flagstaff to Phoenix is about a 2 1/2 - 3 hour drive.
I don't know if you're planning on doing Phoenix, too.
There are some things worth seeing here, like the AZ Science Center (I took
zenmomma Mary and her kids there) and the botanical gardens are nice, not to
mention *me*. ;-)
Of course, if you'd rather just stay in the Northern Arizona area, there are
also plenty of things to see and do.
It really is beautiful up there.
I've lived here for the past 18 years and 3 yrs when I was in my teens.
Feel free to use me as your Arizona guide - ask any questions you have and
I'll try to answer.
I also found these websites that look pretty good and informative.
http://www.arizonaguide.com/home/index_flash.asp
http://www.arizona.worldweb.com/
Have fun planning this trip and if it works out, I'd love to meet you!
Karin
in Phoenix
>Sounds like a fabulous trip Shyrley! November should be perfect weather -
> We've decided to Amtrak down to New Mexico and explore bits of
> NM, Arizona and go to the Grand Canyon.
> Anyone tell me what else there is too see plus when we should
> go? I thought November might be cooler weather.
> Hopefully we'll get to meet Sandra and a few other people while we
> are there.
>
> Shyrley
>
not too hot or too cold yet.
You'll be coming through Flagstaff on Amtrack, on your way to the Grand
Canyon.
Flagstaff to Phoenix is about a 2 1/2 - 3 hour drive.
I don't know if you're planning on doing Phoenix, too.
There are some things worth seeing here, like the AZ Science Center (I took
zenmomma Mary and her kids there) and the botanical gardens are nice, not to
mention *me*. ;-)
Of course, if you'd rather just stay in the Northern Arizona area, there are
also plenty of things to see and do.
It really is beautiful up there.
I've lived here for the past 18 years and 3 yrs when I was in my teens.
Feel free to use me as your Arizona guide - ask any questions you have and
I'll try to answer.
I also found these websites that look pretty good and informative.
http://www.arizonaguide.com/home/index_flash.asp
http://www.arizona.worldweb.com/
Have fun planning this trip and if it works out, I'd love to meet you!
Karin
in Phoenix
[email protected]
My Dad's in Sante Fe this weekend. He got "New Mexico for Dummies" book at
the book store!
Kelly
the book store!
Kelly
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/23/02 12:12:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< > I supported strudturing helping her make a schedule, because I have some
myself. Just like, Betsy, the days when nothing is scheduled are usually the
days that I end up slouching around and at the end of the day feeling like my
day passed and I was off-planet.
DiAnna, just back from a one-night camping trip cut short by the fact that
bugs liked our bug repellent and the kids are completely covered in mosquito
bites
[email protected] writes:
<< > I supported strudturing helping her make a schedule, because I have some
> friends who LOVE their lists and schedules. I personally love my getting upthat
> and stretching and having ONE thing I want to do at a certain time and the
> rest of the day a big blank with a couple of vague checklists in my head
> I allow myself to either ignore or get right on as the urge strikes.Me, too, Sandra! I totally hate those days when I have over-scheduled
> >>
myself. Just like, Betsy, the days when nothing is scheduled are usually the
days that I end up slouching around and at the end of the day feeling like my
day passed and I was off-planet.
DiAnna, just back from a one-night camping trip cut short by the fact that
bugs liked our bug repellent and the kids are completely covered in mosquito
bites
Peggy
> And we have the bio-park now, in addition. An aquarium, a butterfly pavilionHey, them's fighting words! I was wondering when I was going to have to get
> and some dumb plants in some big buildings. ("Botanical gardens"--one
> Mediterranean and one desert--like exotic desert, like Arizona stuff! <bwg>)
>
> Sandra
tough with a wimpy New Mexican. ;)
For those of you unlucky enough not to have experienced the true beauty of the
Arizona Sonoran Desert, anything New Mexico has to offer pales in comparison.
;)
Peggy
"Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that
you do." -- Elizabeth Goudge
Peggy
> We've decided to Amtrak down to New Mexico and explore bits ofNovember is prime tourist season in Tucson. Lovely time of year to see things,
> NM, Arizona and go to the Grand Canyon.
> Anyone tell me what else there is too see plus when we should
> go? I thought November might be cooler weather.
> Hopefully we'll get to meet Sandra and a few other people while we
> are there.
>
> Shyrley
not too hot. Would love to meet you if you make it this far.
Peggy
"Love is not something wonderful that you feel; it is something difficult that
you do." -- Elizabeth Goudge
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/24/02 9:51:38 AM, peggy@... writes:
<< For those of you unlucky enough not to have experienced the true beauty of
the
Arizona Sonoran Desert, anything New Mexico has to offer pales in comparison.
;)
miles-and-miles glory, you have to be in southern Arizona. And it's like
115 degrees there. And there are a whole bunch of people when you get to
town. <g>
Some of those big cactus are pretty ratty, too. Dying, with birds living in
them and unlike the picturesque perfect examples in Arizona Highways and on
the post cards, some are yellowish, dried up, and have bird-do on them.
Of course the magazines are of and for the tourism industry, and I understand
that. When New Mexico was a big place to move to in the 70's, we were
saying New Mexico Magazine should be forced to do "equal time," and have some
pages of photos every month of arroyos with broken glass and old automobiles
half buried in sand, of tumbleweeds choking storm drains, and plastic grocery
bags wrapped around the cholla cactus... Dead roadrunners and rabbits by
the side of the highway.
But regardless of details of cacti, what there is here is a smell in the air,
and a sky, that you don't get in most of the rest of the country. And I love
it here. And I can tolerate Arizona pretty well. <g>
Sandra
<< For those of you unlucky enough not to have experienced the true beauty of
the
Arizona Sonoran Desert, anything New Mexico has to offer pales in comparison.
;)
>>True in some ways. But the bad thing is to see that in all it's
miles-and-miles glory, you have to be in southern Arizona. And it's like
115 degrees there. And there are a whole bunch of people when you get to
town. <g>
Some of those big cactus are pretty ratty, too. Dying, with birds living in
them and unlike the picturesque perfect examples in Arizona Highways and on
the post cards, some are yellowish, dried up, and have bird-do on them.
Of course the magazines are of and for the tourism industry, and I understand
that. When New Mexico was a big place to move to in the 70's, we were
saying New Mexico Magazine should be forced to do "equal time," and have some
pages of photos every month of arroyos with broken glass and old automobiles
half buried in sand, of tumbleweeds choking storm drains, and plastic grocery
bags wrapped around the cholla cactus... Dead roadrunners and rabbits by
the side of the highway.
But regardless of details of cacti, what there is here is a smell in the air,
and a sky, that you don't get in most of the rest of the country. And I love
it here. And I can tolerate Arizona pretty well. <g>
Sandra
Shyrley
On 24 Jul 02, at 9:08, Peggy wrote:
furriner I can geta 30 day rail pass for $385 that allows me to use
Amtrak anywhere.
So I thought we'd go to Flagstaff and hire a car and drive around for
2 weeks through AZ and NM then Amtrak up to San Fransico, then
Chicago and then back home.
Whats the temps like down there in November. I get all irritable
when its hot and sticky :-(
Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."
> > We've decided to Amtrak down to New Mexico and explore bits of NM,Hopefully we will. I'm just working out the Amtrak thing now. As a
> > Arizona and go to the Grand Canyon. Anyone tell me what else there
> > is too see plus when we should go? I thought November might be
> > cooler weather. Hopefully we'll get to meet Sandra and a few other
> > people while we are there.
> >
> > Shyrley
>
> November is prime tourist season in Tucson. Lovely time of year to see
> things, not too hot. Would love to meet you if you make it this far.
>
> Peggy
>
furriner I can geta 30 day rail pass for $385 that allows me to use
Amtrak anywhere.
So I thought we'd go to Flagstaff and hire a car and drive around for
2 weeks through AZ and NM then Amtrak up to San Fransico, then
Chicago and then back home.
Whats the temps like down there in November. I get all irritable
when its hot and sticky :-(
Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/24/02 12:47:48 PM, shyrley.williams@... writes:
<< Whats the temps like down there in November. >>
Here, 35 at night to 80 daytime. Closer to the middle of that range,
probably.
If you come right at the end of October, your kids could go trick or
treating. Holly's friend Jasmine who's originally American but has been
living in England now for nearly four years will be here visiting, partly for
the trick or treating 10/31 and Holly's birthday 11/02. That would be a fun
combination.
Sandra
<< Whats the temps like down there in November. >>
Here, 35 at night to 80 daytime. Closer to the middle of that range,
probably.
If you come right at the end of October, your kids could go trick or
treating. Holly's friend Jasmine who's originally American but has been
living in England now for nearly four years will be here visiting, partly for
the trick or treating 10/31 and Holly's birthday 11/02. That would be a fun
combination.
Sandra
Shyrley
On 24 Jul 02, at 15:04, SandraDodd@... wrote:
is visiting until the 28ths Oct. We could then Amtrak over and
frighten your neighbours, eat your food etc etc
Then go bug someone else.
Whats the nearest Amtrak stop to you?
Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."
>That could be a plan. My mother (if I can get her on a plane that is)
> In a message dated 7/24/02 12:47:48 PM, shyrley.williams@...
> writes:
>
> << Whats the temps like down there in November. >>
>
> Here, 35 at night to 80 daytime. Closer to the middle of that range,
> probably.
>
> If you come right at the end of October, your kids could go trick or
> treating. Holly's friend Jasmine who's originally American but has
> been living in England now for nearly four years will be here
> visiting, partly for the trick or treating 10/31 and Holly's birthday
> 11/02. That would be a fun combination.
>
> Sandra
>
is visiting until the 28ths Oct. We could then Amtrak over and
frighten your neighbours, eat your food etc etc
Then go bug someone else.
Whats the nearest Amtrak stop to you?
Shyrley
"Reality is a just temporary illusion caused by a lack of alcohol in the
bloodstream."
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/24/02 1:57:34 PM, shyrley.williams@... writes:
<< Whats the nearest Amtrak stop to you?
<< Whats the nearest Amtrak stop to you?
>>Albuquerque
zenmomma2kids
>> Some of those big cactus are pretty ratty, too. Dying, with birdsliving in them and unlike the picturesque perfect examples in Arizona
Highways and on the post cards, some are yellowish, dried up, and have
bird-do on them.>>
We thought this was the coolest thing about the cactus! At the AZ
Botanical Gardens they called the so-called ratty ones a Bird &
Animal Hotel. They showed how different animals and bugs use each and
every part of that cactus. I had no idea! And cactus skeletons are way
cool too. I got a star that was carved from cactus skeleton.
Karin was a great guide BTW, for anyone heading in that direction.
Life is good.
~Mary