[email protected]

Melinda,
I am in the same boat. I'm almost 36. I've had a book inside of me for
years, but have never been able to put it down on paper. EVERY time I start
to hammer out the storyline in my mind, I can hear Mrs. Andersen from 6th
grade - "One would never know by reading your writing that you are
tremendously gifted. Oh, and you really can't even draw a stick man, can
you?" OUCH! I had written (on my own, not for an assignment) a story
about a team of astronauts who find themselves pulled through a wormhole in
space and facing the danger of getting sucked into a black hole. It was very
dramatic and exciting, well-researched, and I thought it was pretty darn
good. Mrs. Andersen didn't. You know, since then not only have I not
written much else, but I haven't even wanted to READ any science fiction
since that day. Every time I think of picking up some good science fiction,
I'm just flooded with embarrasment over my "poor" effort.

When my kids write, I let them know that whatever they wrote is perfectly
brilliant. Even if there's something a little "off" with it, their ideas are
brilliant and their writing is, for the most part, wonderful. Both boys are
planning to be authors, in addition to their "daytime ordinary jobs". : )

Oh, and - Hey,Mrs. Andersen? Maybe I can't draw a stick man, but I'm a damn
sight kinder than you were...

Athena


In a message dated 7/14/02 1:23:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
melinda2u@... writes:


> I am now 11 years away from formal education. I have
> just begun writing for pleasure. It is a talent that
> I am only now beginning to explore developing. I am
> 37 years old. How far behind has all that coerced
> composition put me? I will never be able to answer
> that. But I am certain that the passion I have for
> the written word was long delayed due to those years
> of forced writing.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sharon Rudd

OOOOooooo I want to read it!! Do you still have it!
Sharon of the Swamp

--- bunuz7@... wrote:
> Melinda,
> I am in the same boat. I'm almost 36. I've had a
> book inside of me for
> years, but have never been able to put it down on
> paper. EVERY time I start
> to hammer out the storyline in my mind, I can hear
> Mrs. Andersen from 6th
> grade - "One would never know by reading your
> writing that you are
> tremendously gifted. Oh, and you really can't even
> draw a stick man, can
> you?" OUCH! I had written (on my own, not for an
> assignment) a story
> about a team of astronauts who find themselves
> pulled through a wormhole in
> space and facing the danger of getting sucked into a
> black hole. It was very
> dramatic and exciting, well-researched, and I
> thought it was pretty darn
> good. Mrs. Andersen didn't. You know, since then
> not only have I not
> written much else, but I haven't even wanted to READ
> any science fiction
> since that day. Every time I think of picking up
> some good science fiction,
> I'm just flooded with embarrasment over my "poor"
> effort.
>
> When my kids write, I let them know that whatever
> they wrote is perfectly
> brilliant. Even if there's something a little "off"
> with it, their ideas are
> brilliant and their writing is, for the most part,
> wonderful. Both boys are
> planning to be authors, in addition to their
> "daytime ordinary jobs". : )
>
> Oh, and - Hey,Mrs. Andersen? Maybe I can't draw a
> stick man, but I'm a damn
> sight kinder than you were...
>
> Athena
>
>
> In a message dated 7/14/02 1:23:21 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> melinda2u@... writes:
>
>
> > I am now 11 years away from formal education. I
> have
> > just begun writing for pleasure. It is a talent
> that
> > I am only now beginning to explore developing. I
> am
> > 37 years old. How far behind has all that coerced
> > composition put me? I will never be able to
> answer
> > that. But I am certain that the passion I have
> for
> > the written word was long delayed due to those
> years
> > of forced writing.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com

Pam Hartley

This is from another list -- I thought it good timing for our discussion
here. <g>

Pam
----------



>Rules for Writing
>
>1. Always avoid alliteration.
>
>2. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
>
>3. Avoid cliches like the plague.
>
>4. Employ the vernacular.
>
>5. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
>
>6. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary.
>
>7. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
>
>8. Contractions aren't necessary.
>
>9. Foreign words and phrases are not apropos.
>
>10. One should never generalize.
>
>11. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson once said: "I hate
>quotations. Tell me what you know."
>
>12. Comparisons are as bad as cliches.
>
>13. Don't be redundant and don't use more words than necessary because
>it's highly superfluous.
>
>14. Profanity sucks.
>
>15. Be more or less specific.
>
>16. Understatement is always best.
>
>17. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
>
>18. One-word sentences? Eliminate.
>
>19. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.
>
>20. The passive voice is to be avoided.
>
>21. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
>
>22. Even if a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
>
>23. Who needs rhetorical questions?
>
>24. Sentences without verbs--bad idea.
>
>25. Avoid run-on sentences they are hard to read.
>
>26. Don't use no double negatives.
>
>27. Verbs has to agree with their subjects.
>
>28. Avoid commas, that are not necessary.
>
>29. Place pronouns as close as possible, especially in long
>sentences--such as those of ten or more words--to their antecedents.
>
>30. Use parallel structure when you write and in speaking.
>
>31. Take the bull in hand and don't mix metaphors.
>
>32. Never use a long word when a diminutive one will do.
>
>33. Unless you are quoting other people's exclamations, kill all
>exclamation points!!!
>
>34. Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/15/02 1:35:53 PM, bunuz7@... writes:

<< I can hear Mrs. Andersen from 6th
grade - "One would never know by reading your writing that you are
tremendously gifted. Oh, and you really can't even draw a stick man, can
you?" >>

Is she still alive? Does she have e-mail?? I'd like to communicate with her.

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/15/02 2:51:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
bearspawprint@... writes:


> OOOOooooo I want to read it!! Do you still have it!
>

Thank you, Sharon, that was a nice boost for my ego! LoL. Unfortunately,
no. I don't have it. Mrs. Andersen kept it and wouldn't give it back. >: (

Athena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/15/02 6:18:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> Is she still alive? Does she have e-mail?? I'd like to communicate with
> her.
>

Alas, no. Mrs. Andersen was just about to retire when I had her in 1976.
She's long since gone on to the big public school in the sky. No, wait - the
big public school is the OTHER direction. ; >

Athena



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill and Diane

Too funny!

:-) Diane

> Alas, no. Mrs. Andersen was just about to retire when I had her in 1976.
> She's long since gone on to the big public school in the sky. No, wait - the
> big public school is the OTHER direction. ; >

Sharon Rudd

Maybe you could para-phrase you idea into a "younge
adult" story. There is a big demand in that age group
for interesting fiction. Or so I am told by my sister,
the librarian.

Black holes worm their way right into the vortex of my
imagination or is that cortex or maybe it would be
text of manuscript or I think I am finally getting
sleepy

Sharon of the Swamp

--- bunuz7@... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/15/02 2:51:39 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> bearspawprint@... writes:
>
>
> > OOOOooooo I want to read it!! Do you still have
> it!
> >
>
> Thank you, Sharon, that was a nice boost for my ego!
> LoL. Unfortunately,
> no. I don't have it. Mrs. Andersen kept it and
> wouldn't give it back. >: (
>
> Athena
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com

Fetteroll

on 7/15/02 3:30 PM, bunuz7@... at bunuz7@... wrote:

> I've had a book inside of me for
> years, but have never been able to put it down on paper. EVERY time I start
> to hammer out the storyline in my mind, I can hear Mrs. Andersen from 6th
> grade

Events of the past may create stumbling blocks that others don't have but
what we do from today onward is up to us. The only one stopping you now is
you holding onto Mrs Andersen as an excuse.

Mrs Andersen is dead. If she shows up in your head again tell her to shut
up. :-)

The way I write is to write bits and disjointed pieces in a loose leaf
notebook. Just snippets of conversation that pop into my head, ideas of
things that might happen, descriptions, pieces of scenes. Order doesn't
matter. Neatness doesn't matter. Occasionally I type them into the word
processor in some sort of order. Then I print them out and pick at them,
cross things out, reorder, add more ideas. (I use an outline but it isn't
necessary.) Eventually a story forms around it.

There are obviously lots of other methods and the fact that I've never
published anything shouldn't deter you ;-)

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/16/02 3:03:38 AM Central Daylight Time,
bearspawprint@... writes:


> Maybe you could para-phrase you idea into a "younge
> adult" story. There is a big demand in that age group
> for interesting fiction. Or so I am told by my sister,
> the librarian.
>
>

I've been thinking about that lately. I've noticed our young adult
department growing by leaps and bounds. Good reading, some of it. : )
Athena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/16/02 2:23:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:


> The only one stopping you now is
> you holding onto Mrs Andersen as an excuse.
>
>

Well, that and that pesky brain tumor.

I have never thought of Mrs. Andersen as an "excuse". Why would I need an
excuse?
Athena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Now, I know I went to school, and I know I had an English teacher and I
remember vaguely a writing assignment or two, but that's it. What I
wrote and why is lost. Whatever they tried to teach me about writing,
grammar, sentence structure, is lost.
I can't tell you the mechanics of good writing, I only know when I read
it nothing else exists for that moment.
I don't write well but I write a lot. I write long letters to friends
who seem to understand the words and that's good enough. I write
compulsively. I wake up in the night and write something for my son to
read when he's old and I'm gone. I write poetry because there is no way
to not write it.
It's not good either, but I can stack the really bad ones up and burn
them and I can keep the ones that don't make me blush for burning later.

I wish I could blame an unsuspecting English teacher but the truth is I
don't even remember the names of the teachers I had. I'm certain they
did their job but I just wasn't there mentally. Accounted for but not
present.
My brother is some big genius. Really. He reminds us all the time.
His whacky English teacher freshman year told him he was a wonderful
writer, and If I knew who that crazy old bird was I'd hunt her down and
thump her. He's ever since written long and hideous essays on anything
and everything, religion lately. I would pay good money for a Mrs.
Anderson.
I'm loving this discussion about writing. My son is a writer, it's easy
to tell even at ten. I can't imagine a teacher squashing it out of him.
I don't really think it would be possible and luckily we'll never have to
find out.

Deb L, still snorting over the "Rules For Writing"

Fetteroll

on 7/16/02 11:01 PM, bunuz7@... at bunuz7@... wrote:

> I have never thought of Mrs. Andersen as an "excuse". Why would I need an
> excuse?

Human nature. Most of us (if not all of us at times!) make excuses for
ourselves why we can't do something that we are deep down afraid we'll fail
at or don't really want to do but think we should or would like to achieve
without putting in the effort. Unless there's a whole lot of words left out
of your quote from before:

> I've had a book inside of me for
> years, but have never been able to put it down on paper. EVERY time I start
> to hammer out the storyline in my mind, I can hear Mrs. Andersen from 6th
> grade - "One would never know by reading your writing that you are
> tremendously gifted. Oh, and you really can't even draw a stick man, can
> you?"

it sounds like the only thing standing between you and writing is Mrs.
Andersen. If Mrs. Andersen is dead, who else is it who's stopping you "EVERY
time"?

> but I haven't even wanted to READ any science fiction
> since that day. Every time I think of picking up some good science fiction,
> I'm just flooded with embarrasment over my "poor" effort.

And apparently "she" is stopping you from reading science fiction too.

Ultimately, of course, only you can answer the question "Why would I need an
excuse?"

Joyce

Nancy Wooton

on 7/17/02 2:21 AM, Fetteroll at fetteroll@... wrote:

> on 7/16/02 11:01 PM, bunuz7@... at bunuz7@... wrote:
>
>> I have never thought of Mrs. Andersen as an "excuse". Why would I need an
>> excuse?
>
> Human nature. Most of us (if not all of us at times!) make excuses for
> ourselves why we can't do something that we are deep down afraid we'll fail
> at or don't really want to do but think we should or would like to achieve
> without putting in the effort. Unless there's a whole lot of words left out
> of your quote from before:
>
>> I've had a book inside of me for
>> years, but have never been able to put it down on paper. EVERY time I start
>> to hammer out the storyline in my mind, I can hear Mrs. Andersen from 6th
>> grade - "One would never know by reading your writing that you are
>> tremendously gifted. Oh, and you really can't even draw a stick man, can
>> you?"
>
> it sounds like the only thing standing between you and writing is Mrs.
> Andersen. If Mrs. Andersen is dead, who else is it who's stopping you "EVERY
> time"?
>
>> but I haven't even wanted to READ any science fiction
>> since that day. Every time I think of picking up some good science fiction,
>> I'm just flooded with embarrasment over my "poor" effort.
>
> And apparently "she" is stopping you from reading science fiction too.
>
> Ultimately, of course, only you can answer the question "Why would I need an
> excuse?"
>
> Joyce

"The Artist's Way" and "The Right to Write" by Julia Cameron might be of
some help.

Nancy


--
There are a thousand thoughts lying within a man that he does not know till
he takes up a pen to write.
-William Makepeace Thackeray, novelist
(1811-1863)

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/17/02 4:18:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:


> it sounds like the only thing standing between you and writing is Mrs.
> Andersen. If Mrs. Andersen is dead, who else is it who's stopping you
> "EVERY
> time"?

Hmm. I don't recall saying that the experience with Mrs. Andersen was the
only thing keeping me from writing. I said that everytime I think about
getting down to it, I remember what she said. Of course since I am a normal
human being with an exceptionally stressful set of circumstances in my life,
there are many other things that go into it as well. I didn't feel the need
to outline those since we were talking about teachers, and how they reacted
to our writing. Not realizing that I would be called to task and told I was
making excuses, I didn't put my entire life and circumstances into my post so
that everyone would get the whole picture. Nor do I intend to do so.

And apparently "she" is stopping you from reading science fiction too.

No. The sick feeling that I got that day is brought to the surface when I
think about science fiction writing, since my story was science fiction. I
don't feel a compelling desire to read science fiction, and am incapable of
doing so. I said that every time I think about it, I'm flooded with
embarrassment. Does that affect my decision whether or not to read the
genre? Well, sure, to a degree. But so do many other things. Mrs.
Andersen's unkind words and my reaction to them are not the sum total of my
life experience. Again, I joined the discussion with a description of my
experience with my 6th grade teacher because it was on topic. That
experience (along with many others) has had some part in making up my psyche,
which in turn has some part in determining how I approach things.

Ultimately, of course, only you can answer the question "Why would I need an
excuse?"

Right. The answer: I don't. I haven't actually ever tried to make one.
You decided that that's what I was doing. Interesting idea, but it doesn't
apply here. I have enough important things happening in my life that it
isn't more than a small drop in the bucket.

I do find myself curious about why, considering the several anecdotes that
were posted in this thread, you decided that I, and only I, was making
excuses for not writing. I found it startling and, well, high-handed.

Athena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/17/02 2:17:18 PM Central Daylight Time,
kbmatlock@... writes:


> Athena, I read Joyce's comments as nurturing and caring. I've read her posts
> for awhile now, and she is one of the least snarky people around. I think
> she was trying to help you see what you wrote that may have been
> contributing to what sounded like a writer's block. If it wasn't helpful,
> it
> is your right to pass on it, but she wasn't being tacky or singling you out
> intentionally.

Karen, you may well be right about that. <shrug> If that is the case, then
I stand corrected.
Athena



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

I'm sorry Athena! It truly wasn't meant like that at all. Karen explained
the intent very well.

Joyce

Lisa Hardiman

Deb: I just been reading a book about Woody Guthrie with my kids. He
was a writer of simple words people could relate to. He wrote a song
daily sometimes two or more. You sound like a writer. Woody Guthrie
was a writer because writing is an action. If you do it, you are. You
write very well. People can understand you and that is one of the main
points isn't it? One aspect of school writing was a 4th grade teacher
who was consider very good, told the kids to write and do it creatively
but make sure words are spelled right. Editing always comes later.
When you edit when you write creatively, you are breaking the flow,
censoring the mind, breaking the spirit. Write from the heart and
anything you want to. Hold back nothing. Than in a week or two,
sometimes more, go back and read it with an objective eye. The third or
fourth time around make sure the words are spelled in similarity with
the dictionary. I have taken creative writing courses and there are all
sorts of ways to connect words together in a flow that feels comfortable
to you. Don't despair, say adios to the inner critic and invite her
back later. Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: ddzimlew@... [mailto:ddzimlew@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 10:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Interesting essay

Now, I know I went to school, and I know I had an English teacher and I
remember vaguely a writing assignment or two, but that's it. What I
wrote and why is lost. Whatever they tried to teach me about writing,
grammar, sentence structure, is lost.
I can't tell you the mechanics of good writing, I only know when I read
it nothing else exists for that moment.
I don't write well but I write a lot. I write long letters to friends
who seem to understand the words and that's good enough. I write
compulsively. I wake up in the night and write something for my son to
read when he's old and I'm gone. I write poetry because there is no
way
to not write it.
It's not good either, but I can stack the really bad ones up and burn
them and I can keep the ones that don't make me blush for burning later.


I wish I could blame an unsuspecting English teacher but the truth is I
don't even remember the names of the teachers I had. I'm certain they
did their job but I just wasn't there mentally. Accounted for but not
present.
My brother is some big genius. Really. He reminds us all the time.
His whacky English teacher freshman year told him he was a wonderful
writer, and If I knew who that crazy old bird was I'd hunt her down and
thump her. He's ever since written long and hideous essays on anything
and everything, religion lately. I would pay good money for a Mrs.
Anderson.
I'm loving this discussion about writing. My son is a writer, it's easy
to tell even at ten. I can't imagine a teacher squashing it out of him.

I don't really think it would be possible and luckily we'll never have
to
find out.

Deb L, still snorting over the "Rules For Writing"





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705
542111:HM/A=1155066/R=0/*http:/adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039-
302>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hi Lisa!
You are just so nice. Must be a Montana thing, eh? <G>
You know, I never despair. I'm really satisfied with just what I have.
I read here that some folks just know they have a book in them, or
they've had a long desire to write a book but I have no such burning
desire. I just write, and it is what it is and that's fine with me.
Years from now my son can laugh or cry or blush over what I've written to
him and even if it's terrible he'll have a wonderful time with it. My
grandmother left those things for her children, poems she'd written,
stories, letters to them when they were babies. They've been great fun
for all of us all these years later.

What book are you reading? We love Woody Guthrie.
Lisa, I've been thinking of you and your sweet kids. Scary news from
Great Falls just recently, hold your babies close.

Deb

Sharon Rudd

> Scary news from
> Great Falls just recently, hold your babies close.
>
> Deb

??????????What is happening in Great Falls?

I lived in Great Falls when I was 5. Walked through a
tunnel of snow to get to Longfellow Elementry School.
Alone. There was one little Black boy in my
Kindergarten class. No Indians (at least local ones)
allowed. But as there was only one Black family in the
whole city it was not worth building a whole school in
order to enforce discrimintation. I walked home with
him one day. Mother was in a panic when I didn't come
home....but his mother called the school to say where
I was and I got found. I also walked lots of other
places alone.
But this was in 1953-4. The olden days.

One little girl stuck a pencil in my eye. It went
between the eyeball and the socket. Miss Grapes called
my mother....when she got there I had a pencil
sticking out of my eye. I only have a small blue-grey
scar from it. Apparently the child was mad becuase my
hand-print plaster-cast-thingy was smaller than hers.
???? Dunno.

It snowed July 4. We ate watermelon and I wore my
halter-top upside down. I also learned to
dissassociate in Great Falls. I actually thought that
I was flying, though. Maybe I did.

Sharon of the Swamp




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com

Lisa Hardiman

Deb, I know. Great Falls is very dysfunctional most often. There are
kids everywhere far from any kind of parent running around everywhere.
Just got to light a candle for the boy and family and pray he gets home
soon. The book we are reading is a biography called "This Land Was
Made for You and Me" by Elizabeth Partridge. The author grew up in a
rather "Bohemian" family. They traveled together in a used limousine
that they painted metallic gold and made into a camper. In the
afterward she wrote, ".For graduation, Miss Brown decided we'd sing
"this Land is Your Land." We practiced quietly for several weeks in our
classroom. A day before the ceremony, we walked two by two down to the
auditorium for a dress rehearsal. Miss Brown wanted us to be perfect.
I knew we'd be perfect. I loved the song and felt good inside as I
sang. 'Let your voices fill the auditorium,' Miss Brown said, signaling
us to begin. But her bright smile quickly gave way to a frown as she
listened. 'Keep singing,' she said, and walked in front of us, arms
crossed,.When she got to me, she shook her head. 'No, no,no,' she said.
'You're off key. Stop singing. Just mouth the words.' A burning heat
flooded my face. Stop singing? My warm, confident feelings crumbled to
shame. I felt angry and hot inside. But I didn't say anything. Not to
her, not to anyone." (page 201 " This Land Was Made for You and Me")
She wrote this biography to heal from that very experience. Woody
Guthrie was a great writer of books but they are not objective, and this
book is great. Peace, Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: ddzimlew@... [mailto:ddzimlew@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 8:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Interesting essay

Hi Lisa!
You are just so nice. Must be a Montana thing, eh? <G>
You know, I never despair. I'm really satisfied with just what I have.
I read here that some folks just know they have a book in them, or
they've had a long desire to write a book but I have no such burning
desire. I just write, and it is what it is and that's fine with me.
Years from now my son can laugh or cry or blush over what I've written
to
him and even if it's terrible he'll have a wonderful time with it. My
grandmother left those things for her children, poems she'd written,
stories, letters to them when they were babies. They've been great fun
for all of us all these years later.

What book are you reading? We love Woody Guthrie.
Lisa, I've been thinking of you and your sweet kids. Scary news from
Great Falls just recently, hold your babies close.

Deb





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705
542111:HM/A=1155067/R=0/*http:/adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039-
302>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]