nada.sheppard@...

I've read through the minimalism/abundance and creativity thread.  May I ask about gratitude in children, and whether abundance fosters gratitude?  We are slowly removing old thought patterns and have always restricted our children's toys (no plastic, no characters, no noises and lights, etc) and now I find that no matter what we do or give with our daughter (5yo), it's never good enough or enough.  There always is a request for more toys, more treats, more games, more, more, more.  While I know it's not a personal affront, it hurts to hear this because we just are not financially able to provide for every whim and desire.  

Joyce Fetteroll


On Feb 7, 2016, at 6:21 PM, nada.sheppard@... [AlwaysLearning] <[email protected]> wrote:

There always is a request for more toys, more treats, more games, more, more, more.  


5 is a pretty typical age to realize the world is full of stuff to explore. And that they can have it by asking.

It's not their fault that these things cost money. They're curious. They want to try everything that catches their eye.


While I know it's not a personal affront, it hurts to hear this
because we just are not financially able to provide for every
whim and desire.  


Don't think of them as whims. Even if the desire doesn't last long, it's still a desire. Calling it a whim makes it easier to dismiss her than help her.

Rather than thinking in terms of getting everything she wants -- or saying no, think in terms of how you can support her desire to explore whatever she's curious about.

Ask yourself, What ways can I make this happen? What *ways* can I help her explore this?

Even adults don't get everything they want. Having limited money isn't an excuse to say no. But it's the reason for saying, "Let's get this today and this other the next time we come."

Share the different strategies *you* use for decision making. Let her see how they work with her wants. Don't *teach* her. Don't turn it into a lesson. Just do it.

For instance, many kids find it helpful to carry items around while shopping. That way they get to spend time looking them over. Say, "Why don't you spend time with them while we're in the store? Check them out. We can afford to get one that's under $10."

Isn't that similar to what you might do for yourself when you have limited money and many things you want?

You can also take pictures of toys. Or food. :-) Keep a folder on your phone or camera for things to think about. (Or even a hand written list! ;-) ) You can even upload pictures to a Pinterest folder. Then she can feel confident they aren't forgotten while also being able to think about which she really wants.

There are also yard sales. Second hand stores. Toy swaps. 

Help her explore while also helping her learn how to make decisions.

May I ask about gratitude in children, and whether abundance fosters gratitude?

Don't think of her as ungrateful. That will get in your way of helping her.

(You wouldn't have asked about gratitude if "ungrateful" weren't floating about in your emotions.)

She's curious, not ungrateful. Things cost money. That's not her fault. It's up to you to find *ways* around the pesky money issue.

Maybe think of "things cost money" more like "things are sometimes out of reach." The helpful-for-learning answer isn't, "No, sorry, too high." It's going to be, "Let's see what we can do about that." The answer may be different for each situation.

I wrote this on Quora in response to "How do you help your child learn gratitude?"

(I'm not sure Yahoo will preserve the formatting. It might be easier to read at:
https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-help-your-child-learn-gratitude/answer/Joyce-Fetteroll

=====================
Gratitude is a feeling. Children can be trained to act as if they feel grateful. But how can children learn to feel a feeling?
They need to experience gratitude flowing at them and around them. Otherwise they're just parroting what they're supposed to say. 

Thank kids. Let them know their time, help and thoughtfulness is appreciated. Be aware of how you're saying thank you. Thank them with the care, tone and sincerity as you want them to thank you and others. In other words, don't thank them as a ploy to get them to thank people. Do it because it's how people treat each other.

Thank your spouse. Thank your spouse for going to work, for mowing the lawn, for making dinner, especially on those days you know it wasn't easy for them. Acknowledge they could have chosen to do something they enjoy more but chose to do this thing for the family. Find different ways to say or show thanks so it's not done automatically but with feeling.

Do random acts of kindness. Draw your child into doing nice things for others in the family to show you're grateful they're in your life. It's especially fun to do it secretly.

Spontaneously express gratitude. Notice thoughtful acts and beauty in life. Live in the half full part of the glass.

Review the day at the end.  As part of the bedtime routine, exchange what was good and bad about the day. Include expressing what you're grateful for. Sometimes it will be hard to think of something. That's okay! Say that. It's honest. For most people it's a mental shift to see life in terms of gratitude. Let your child see you working on being grateful.
It's actually natural to focus on what isn't working. It's how we solve problems. But we can get so stuck on seeing what's broken that we forget to see what's wonderful. You be that. Let them see you do that.

Coach them. Before a birthday party, coach them on thanking others and saying "You're welcome!" Expect them to stumble. They're still learning. Be with them as they're getting presents. Be a team. Support them in trying but fill in where they can't. Let them see how it's done.
============
Joyce

redheadmom11@...

As a one-income family with 11 kids, we have never been able to provide the amount of toys, games, etc. as their friends' parents. What I have found is that our kids are not the least bit resentful of this because they understand our situation. In fact, when we are able to buy new things for them- typically at Christmas and their birthdays- I find that they are more grateful and appreciative than their friends who receive stuff all the time. In our case, minimalism has definitely contributed to their gratitude.

Shelly

Sandra Dodd

-=-In our case, minimalism has definitely contributed to their gratitude.-=-

I don’t think that will count as the aesthetic minimalism people are talking about when they decorate sparsely. Minimalism and paucity aren’t the same.


-=- In fact, when we are able to buy new things for them- typically at Christmas and their birthdays- I find that they are more grateful and appreciative than their friends who receive stuff all the time.-=-

There are very likely other factors.

Our kids were happy with thrift-store toys, and occasional video games. They had friends who wore name-brand clothes and fancy shoes (schooled kids and homeschoolers), but my kids were not needy.

Traditionally our children has insisted that kids who get too much are spoiled and ungrateful, while kids who are deprived will appreciate what they get. But taken to an extreme, that means desperation will make people fawn and appreciate anything at all. That can be a dangerous, in teens, sometimes. Not so much with unschooling families where trust and communication are great, though.

http://sandradodd.com/spoiled

Sandra

Clare Kirkpatrick

I just wanted to share about my children. We're not rich but we are not poor either. Sometimes we have to say 'let's put it on your birthday list' and we take a photo or talk about how fab it would be to own the thing. My children do not lack for an abundance of toys and other things either. They are genuinely both grateful and generous. I didn't need to create any arbitrary scarcity in order for them to develop such empathy as is required for gratitude and generosity, only to be grateful to and generous with them ourselves.

Clare

sukaynalabboun@...

I think five is a little young, especially if there were restrictions before, to expect an outpouring of gratitude. Kids that age are generally only becoming aware of others and their feelings. In our case, maybe my kids are amazing, but I have seen that were as generous as we could be (even though before unschooling I was sort of biting my tongue at times over their choices, etc), and they have been grateful and tactfully refused alot of stuff or opportunities. I really think getting "enough" has been a huge factor. 
Sandra has a page on her site referring to filling kids up with love, generosity, kindness until they have enough to give to others. 


Maybe your daughter needs more, for now. Also maybe look on her site for things to do to foster a sense of abundance even with a limited budget. Also, this Thursday she has a live chat on just that topic- so you might want to check that out.

Sandra Dodd

-=-Also, this Thursday she has a live chat on just that topic- so you might want to check that out.-=-

http://chatnotes-unschooling.blogspot.com

I think the subscription function is working again. Please subscribe there, anyone who’s interested in notifications of future chats.

Sandra

Kelly Callahan

Around gift giving/receiving/buying is when we are conditioned to expect gratitude and thanks. You see parents prompting their kids to say 'thank you' etc.. When I started unschooling and widening my lens, noticing more, I started paying better attention to the things my kids said and found that they expressed more generosity or gratitude at other times. We'd be in the grocery store and they would be picking out their Dad's favorite things, because he wasn't there. My daughter's art would be cards or pictures for family members... I would offer to get them something and they would look around and say, 'no... i don't need anything.' Their sense of abundance is not only for them, but for others as well.

And look for non-verbal cues.. not everyone is great at expressing in words how they feel. An expression, a hug. 

Listen to Amy Childs' podcast on 'Spoiled' - it's really good and got me thinking and changing my perspective- 

Erica Lewis

My daughter is five. To a degree, she can have whatever she wants. If she expresses an interest in something, or sees something which makes her eyes light up, I find a way to get it or get her access to it. Yes there's an element of privilege here I know, but I don't think we're excessive, and often the answer is that we can put it on her wishlist, or take a photograph so we remember it.

But, I think when children know that their desires are important and you take their requests seriously - thus they can have what they want wherever possible, the desire for whatever they CAN have minimises.

What I mean is, children who usually CAN'T get what they want, or have to do a lot of asking before anything is granted, I think ask for more (on the off chance that this might be a yes day), and will take what they can have just because this is a rare occurrence of them being allowed something/anything. So they'll go to a toy shop and always want something, or several somethings, because there might not be another opportunity. Same as how some people always say yes to cake even if they don't really fancy it, because it's available and you take advantage of availability (artificial scarcity).

Thus, my daughter will often turn down a visit to a toy shop, and can visit them without actually wanting anything. This is actually also true of my two year old but she's not really old enough for me to feel confident to attribute the reason to abundance! I think she just doesn't really understand the idea of shops just yet.

I don't know if this addresses what you mean by gratitude. She certainly doesn't always jump over herself with gratitude when people expect it sometimes - for example when someone offers her some sweets or chocolate they seem to expect excitement and gratitude beyond what they'd expect if they offered her a cheese sandwich. They are usually disappointed. In that respect abundance doesn't create gratitude. It's just food, isn't it? I'm sure something similar could apply to other things? If someone gives her a toy she doesn't want, she probably doesn't feel particularly excited or grateful and is too young really to feel a social pressure to pretend.  Is this a bad thing?

~Erica

semajrak@...

<<And look for non-verbal cues.. not everyone is great at expressing in words how they feel. An expression, a hug.>>

I love what Kelly wrote.  It got me thinking.  Not everyone *wants* to express how they feel in words, too, I think.  Ethan said his first words at around two years old.  Before that he didn't babble at all.  He kind of made "ah ah ah" sounds.  It was very simple vocalization--more to get my attention and to express a feeling, than to communicate.  He had happy "ah ahs" and frustrated "ah ahs."  But, most of how he communicated was in gestures, in physically guiding us, in the eyes, and in facial expressions.  

Yet, my husband and I understood what he was communicating so much of the time.  When he did start talking, within a very short period of time, he was making sentences.  That was a relief to both Doug and I because people were starting to express their concern.  Neither one of us was particularly concerned about Ethan, because he was able to communicate effectively enough to help us know how to meet his needs.  But it was a relief not to have other people's worry to think about on top of this new parenting gig we were (often clumsily) trying to figure out. 

Later, after Ethan had fun practicing his new language skill, he kind of went back to gesturing instead of talking sometimes.  I actually remember asking him one time why he wasn't telling me what he wanted with his words, and he expressed that he liked trying to get me to understand him without words.  Interesting eh?!  I thought it was a game, but maybe it was more than that.  Understanding his intentions, I happily played along.  This lasted a pretty long time.  Even to this day, Ethan likes to challenge me to understand him without words--communicating through gesturing, eye contact, and facial expressions.  He thought miming was really interesting for a time.

I feel like Ethan is really good at communicating his gratitude in ways that don't include a lot of words, or any words at all.  It's very subtle.  He's a very subtle person.  A person close to him knows he is grateful for them in his life, I think.  A person watching him play, knows he is grateful for his experience.  He doesn't often say it with words though.  Maybe some people want to express what they're feeling without words.  There is an intimacy about it, especially with people we're really close to.  Maybe we need to learn to hear gratitude a different way.  

I think learning to see gratitude in our children is affected by how much gratitude we truly feel ourselves.  Practice feeling more gratitude yourself.  See things to be grateful for everywhere, especially your children and those you love most.  You might find how subtle gratitude really is, and how much it can permeate everything we do, so that we no longer need to say in words "I'm grateful."  We live in gratitude.  I think children might be better at that than we are.   

I do think it's good to help our children help others hear what they hope to communicate, of course.  I do notice that Ethan expresses his thanks in words more with people he doesn't know well.  I think he's learned that in time, with experience and a growing understanding of people, with practice, and with our support.       

Karen James