Philosophy?
[email protected]
Speaking of unschooling as a spiritual endeavor, or a philosophy of life,
I sometimes wonder if anyone has a personal philosophy of life anymore.
What I see is a socialized philosophy of conformity.
There are two women I am acquainted with who have children on Ritalin
drugs. One of these women, has all three of her children on Ritalin
(sp?). How does this happen? Her daughter is one of Dylan's friends.
When she was five or six and in kindergarten the teacher couldn't stand
her and made her sit in the hall. One teacher's aid I know told me she
spent the entire year in the hall. So, she's almost twelve now and has
been on medication for half her life, at least. The first time she came
to our house without her mom, I had cookies on the table and she asked if
she could have one. I told her yes. Could she have two? Three? I told
her to eat them all if she thought her stomach could take it. She asked
to play the piano, to look at the violin, to go into my room, to count
the money in my piggy bank, to cook dinner for us. There wasn't anything
she couldn't do here and she chose to sit and draw with Dylan and watch a
movie. (And cook dinner, which was delicious) Her mom was astounded when
she came to get her, to find her "troubled" daughter happily quiet and
calm. This scenario has repeated now several times and her mom asked
last Wednesday if I would "homeschool" her next year. What is this?
The other mom has let the school tell her exactly how to raise her son
and exactly what they expect and she has complied in her own words
"sometimes against" her better judgement. WHY?
Yesterday while setting up for the library book sale I met a lovely
little girl . Two women there, the foster mom and her friend were
keeping track of this little person. She was wonderful, singing, playing
in boxes, talking nicely with all the helpers. The commandants "had to"
correct her, frequently. I said, as sweetly as I could, that she wasn't
a mistake, and therefor needed no correction and they all laughed and
said how difficult it is to discipline her because she's so cute, blah,
blah. Discipline? She's TWO! They never missed an opportunity to stop
her from having fun and that's all she was doing, because she wasn't
wildly running about risking injury or destruction of property. One of
these women know's Dylan and in a discussion about "discipline" I told
them he had never been spanked or time outed (?) or otherwise "punished"
and I told them that I really believed "bad" behavior in a child wasn't
really bad behavior, but bad parenting. When we fail to meet their needs
we don't have the right to punish them for getting frustrated. It won't
make any difference in their thinking, but they asked.
So I think it has to do with what adults see children as. Are they
beings who deserve respect and dignity or are they empty vessels,
essentially worthless unless they are controlled by us and filled with
our goodness and rightness and knowledge. It's more than trusting that
they will learn, it's knowing that they are people. How can you do the
first, if you don't really believe the second?
I'm depressed just thinking about the lives of these children. I'm
offended that big people can drug and hit little people and it's lawful
and acceptable. I amazed that grown mothers of precious children don't
believe they are perfect, and right and more important than any school
system or any order from God.
Deb L, going bird watching with a remarkable, interesting, most excellent
son.
I sometimes wonder if anyone has a personal philosophy of life anymore.
What I see is a socialized philosophy of conformity.
There are two women I am acquainted with who have children on Ritalin
drugs. One of these women, has all three of her children on Ritalin
(sp?). How does this happen? Her daughter is one of Dylan's friends.
When she was five or six and in kindergarten the teacher couldn't stand
her and made her sit in the hall. One teacher's aid I know told me she
spent the entire year in the hall. So, she's almost twelve now and has
been on medication for half her life, at least. The first time she came
to our house without her mom, I had cookies on the table and she asked if
she could have one. I told her yes. Could she have two? Three? I told
her to eat them all if she thought her stomach could take it. She asked
to play the piano, to look at the violin, to go into my room, to count
the money in my piggy bank, to cook dinner for us. There wasn't anything
she couldn't do here and she chose to sit and draw with Dylan and watch a
movie. (And cook dinner, which was delicious) Her mom was astounded when
she came to get her, to find her "troubled" daughter happily quiet and
calm. This scenario has repeated now several times and her mom asked
last Wednesday if I would "homeschool" her next year. What is this?
The other mom has let the school tell her exactly how to raise her son
and exactly what they expect and she has complied in her own words
"sometimes against" her better judgement. WHY?
Yesterday while setting up for the library book sale I met a lovely
little girl . Two women there, the foster mom and her friend were
keeping track of this little person. She was wonderful, singing, playing
in boxes, talking nicely with all the helpers. The commandants "had to"
correct her, frequently. I said, as sweetly as I could, that she wasn't
a mistake, and therefor needed no correction and they all laughed and
said how difficult it is to discipline her because she's so cute, blah,
blah. Discipline? She's TWO! They never missed an opportunity to stop
her from having fun and that's all she was doing, because she wasn't
wildly running about risking injury or destruction of property. One of
these women know's Dylan and in a discussion about "discipline" I told
them he had never been spanked or time outed (?) or otherwise "punished"
and I told them that I really believed "bad" behavior in a child wasn't
really bad behavior, but bad parenting. When we fail to meet their needs
we don't have the right to punish them for getting frustrated. It won't
make any difference in their thinking, but they asked.
So I think it has to do with what adults see children as. Are they
beings who deserve respect and dignity or are they empty vessels,
essentially worthless unless they are controlled by us and filled with
our goodness and rightness and knowledge. It's more than trusting that
they will learn, it's knowing that they are people. How can you do the
first, if you don't really believe the second?
I'm depressed just thinking about the lives of these children. I'm
offended that big people can drug and hit little people and it's lawful
and acceptable. I amazed that grown mothers of precious children don't
believe they are perfect, and right and more important than any school
system or any order from God.
Deb L, going bird watching with a remarkable, interesting, most excellent
son.
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/02 8:03:47 AM, ddzimlew@... writes:
<< I told
them he had never been spanked or time outed (?) or otherwise "punished"
and I told them that I really believed "bad" behavior in a child wasn't
really bad behavior, but bad parenting. When we fail to meet their needs
we don't have the right to punish them for getting frustrated. >>
I've never seen or heard that put so simply and plainly.
I need to remember to use that. I have a couple of fantasy targets, but the
best is past the point of helping--her kids are 17 and 14 and quite lost
causes. But they used to be the best candidates for unschooling I had ever
seen. I practically BEGGED their mom to keep them home when Kirby was little
and hers were too, but she said she probably would after elementary. Too
late. They didn't love her or home anymore after elementary, and their dad
committed suicide. I think he killed himself because the house was *SO*
negative, so cynical, so filled with pessimism, that school was a joyous hap
py escape. And he was working from home! (making big bucks as a computer
consultant, but still...) It didn't have to be that way.
She loves cynicism more than her children. She will argue long and hard to
defend her cynicism.
<<Are they
beings who deserve respect and dignity or are they empty vessels,
essentially worthless unless they are controlled by us and filled with
our goodness and rightness and knowledge. >>
Deb L, what was your religious upbringing? Please answer that, at least on
the side, because I truly personally want to know.
The two choices you have gven above are both wrong, per Christianity. The
overwhelming belief of people in the English speaking world, and if not of
thiions is this: Children are born sinful, and willful, and must have that
trained out of them. They must have their wills broken. They must learn to
obey, and not to act on their own (sinful) desires.
Church has taught that for a long time.
Universities have taught (falsely, but maybe hopefully) that there are no
human instincts. They have all been extinguished. Humans can only learn
from the writings of humans who came before them. If pressed, they would
probably find their philosophy meeting the church and it would come down to
what SEEMS like instinct is a selfish desire and will lead to sin.
So if you say "What!? No instinct? No adrenaline, desire for revenge, no
sexual urges??" All sins. Anger is a sin, in the Bible. What about
mothering instincts, though? The desire to carry a child around and sleep
with him? SIN SIN SIN.
It would be nice if I were just talking about a hundred years ago, but I'm
talking about now, in your own town, wherever you are, there are people who
believe those things STRONGLY.
So neither the perfection nor the empty-vessel model, although they've both
been discussed by a few people for generations, can overcome the born-in-sin
model.
At birth a child inherits the sin of Adam. Satan has an advantage in the
fight for his soul, and so the parents have to work HARD to bring the child
into the fold by the time he is old enough to decide whether to be a good
Christian or not (the age of accountability), and if the child isn't quite
trained by that time (age estimates vary from nine to fourteen or so on that,
and judging by the ages Baptist kids make their professions of faith if
they're immersed in the church and haven't been out being tempted by sin),
his soul could be lost BECAUSE of.... bad parenting.
So we're full circle. If the people taking care of that two year old girl
believe her eternal soul is in their control and she is just being willful
and sinful, they WERE being "good parents" to try to make her do what adults
want done.
It's a huge, gigantic, continent-sized iceberg of a problem.
And what's juxtaposed right over it is the Christian Homeschooling Movement.
HSLDA and all their associates. The Southern Baptist Convention. They don't
consider their beliefs "a philosophy." They consider them the plainly
visible word of a vengeful God.
<<Are they
beings who deserve respect and dignity or are they empty vessels,
essentially worthless unless they are controlled by us and filled with
our goodness and rightness and knowledge. >>
For me, a former Baptist who made a profession of faith at ten and was
baptized on Easter Sunday (I shared that story with Holly this year, who is
ten and doesn't believe in God following her own questioning and inquiries),
I believe they are beings who are eager to fill themselves up with our
goodness and rightness and knowledge.
Sandra
<< I told
them he had never been spanked or time outed (?) or otherwise "punished"
and I told them that I really believed "bad" behavior in a child wasn't
really bad behavior, but bad parenting. When we fail to meet their needs
we don't have the right to punish them for getting frustrated. >>
I've never seen or heard that put so simply and plainly.
I need to remember to use that. I have a couple of fantasy targets, but the
best is past the point of helping--her kids are 17 and 14 and quite lost
causes. But they used to be the best candidates for unschooling I had ever
seen. I practically BEGGED their mom to keep them home when Kirby was little
and hers were too, but she said she probably would after elementary. Too
late. They didn't love her or home anymore after elementary, and their dad
committed suicide. I think he killed himself because the house was *SO*
negative, so cynical, so filled with pessimism, that school was a joyous hap
py escape. And he was working from home! (making big bucks as a computer
consultant, but still...) It didn't have to be that way.
She loves cynicism more than her children. She will argue long and hard to
defend her cynicism.
<<Are they
beings who deserve respect and dignity or are they empty vessels,
essentially worthless unless they are controlled by us and filled with
our goodness and rightness and knowledge. >>
Deb L, what was your religious upbringing? Please answer that, at least on
the side, because I truly personally want to know.
The two choices you have gven above are both wrong, per Christianity. The
overwhelming belief of people in the English speaking world, and if not of
thiions is this: Children are born sinful, and willful, and must have that
trained out of them. They must have their wills broken. They must learn to
obey, and not to act on their own (sinful) desires.
Church has taught that for a long time.
Universities have taught (falsely, but maybe hopefully) that there are no
human instincts. They have all been extinguished. Humans can only learn
from the writings of humans who came before them. If pressed, they would
probably find their philosophy meeting the church and it would come down to
what SEEMS like instinct is a selfish desire and will lead to sin.
So if you say "What!? No instinct? No adrenaline, desire for revenge, no
sexual urges??" All sins. Anger is a sin, in the Bible. What about
mothering instincts, though? The desire to carry a child around and sleep
with him? SIN SIN SIN.
It would be nice if I were just talking about a hundred years ago, but I'm
talking about now, in your own town, wherever you are, there are people who
believe those things STRONGLY.
So neither the perfection nor the empty-vessel model, although they've both
been discussed by a few people for generations, can overcome the born-in-sin
model.
At birth a child inherits the sin of Adam. Satan has an advantage in the
fight for his soul, and so the parents have to work HARD to bring the child
into the fold by the time he is old enough to decide whether to be a good
Christian or not (the age of accountability), and if the child isn't quite
trained by that time (age estimates vary from nine to fourteen or so on that,
and judging by the ages Baptist kids make their professions of faith if
they're immersed in the church and haven't been out being tempted by sin),
his soul could be lost BECAUSE of.... bad parenting.
So we're full circle. If the people taking care of that two year old girl
believe her eternal soul is in their control and she is just being willful
and sinful, they WERE being "good parents" to try to make her do what adults
want done.
It's a huge, gigantic, continent-sized iceberg of a problem.
And what's juxtaposed right over it is the Christian Homeschooling Movement.
HSLDA and all their associates. The Southern Baptist Convention. They don't
consider their beliefs "a philosophy." They consider them the plainly
visible word of a vengeful God.
<<Are they
beings who deserve respect and dignity or are they empty vessels,
essentially worthless unless they are controlled by us and filled with
our goodness and rightness and knowledge. >>
For me, a former Baptist who made a profession of faith at ten and was
baptized on Easter Sunday (I shared that story with Holly this year, who is
ten and doesn't believe in God following her own questioning and inquiries),
I believe they are beings who are eager to fill themselves up with our
goodness and rightness and knowledge.
Sandra
Sharon Rudd
and her mom asked
Sharon of the Swamp
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> last Wednesday if I would "homeschool" her nextAre you? How did you reply?
> year.
Sharon of the Swamp
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/02 10:43:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
depressed, angry person at home. I couldn't understand why my daughter wasn't
"good" or "normal", and tried to discipline her to prove i wasn't a BAD
parent. I found the Lord in February 2000. I was baptised Catholic as an
infant, but had no churching growing up. I had a distaste for anything
remotely religious, couldn't read or listen to anything that was pushing the
bible. Then one day God moved in me. I have been a member of a Baptist church
for over 2 years now. I have never seen the vengeful God represented, but a
loving and forgiving God. I don't believe in a religion, I believe in a
RELATIONSHIP, religion is often the wrong way to go about it. I believe
children have innocence, and free wills. I believe I model my life for my
children, and if the fruit they see is what matters to them, they will want
what I have. But they are free to choose whatever philosophy they feel is
right. If i want to "win" my children to Christ, then I better make a life a
powerful witness. My oldest almost 10yo daughter professed her faith not
long after I did, when she was 7. I wasn't sure if she had the
"accountability" or understanding, that maybe she was just following my
example. So we have not yet discussed baptism, and she says she knew Jesus
was real before I met him, before she knew His name. She leaned on Him when
Mommy used to have rage and resentment and when I thought my child was doing
things intentionally to get me mad. Boy have I come a long way. I think it
was ingrained in me from the (lack of) parenting skills my father had. But
God is good, faithful and very forgiving. He has led me to learn why I acted
the way I did, what I can do daily to change and get better, and led me to
homeschooling, unschooling, rebonding with my baby whom I was disconnected
from for so long, because I was measured based on her public behavior. I
have a very shameful history of poor parent conduct, desperate at times, and
I daily have to wonder what I am accountable for in my daughters behavior and
who she is due to the pain I subjected her to. I always knew I loved her, and
thought that was enough, but one day the question occured to me does she know
i love her, beyond a shadow of a doubt. I am so thankful to be where we are
now, growing and loving and learning together, and all hope is not lost.
Ironically, I was trying to train her and break her will before I found the
Lord, and I don't feel that is the way He has led me since. He taught me to
love her and accept her, nurture her and treasure her, the way He does me,
His child. I believe he has shown me to trust my instincts that were
previously mostly ignored, trying to trust "experts" that knew better than
me. I wished I had coslept and carried my 10yo dd, the bond was being severed
as early as my practice of "separation parenting", which is the societal norm
and direct opposite of attachment parenting that I practice with my
subsequent children. If I come across any Southern Baptists or Christians who
believe the way you portray, I would pray for them and not listen to them for
a minute. It is also ironic that I am a homeschooler and Christian, I am not
a homeschooler because it's the Christian thing to do, I am an unschooler
because I am led to believe it is the parenting thing to do, I just happen to
be a Christian. I have met some Christian homeschoolers, and joined a
Christian group, but I am sure I am not like many of them!
I love this group and enjoy learning not only about unschooling, but learning
so much about myself from the reflection here. Thanks, I am grateful for all
of you!
Ang
SAHM to
Megan Elizabeth 8/8/92 8lbs 8oz
Ashlyn Olivia 7/25/99 9lbs 8oz
Christian James 6/09/01 9lbs 5oz
*NEW* <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/megamom08/hometour.html">Ang's Virtual Home Tour</A>
<A HREF="http://www.twgallery.8m.com/MEGAMOM08.html">Meet MEGAMOM08</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/christian.html">Christian's Birth Story</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/mygirlspage.html">My Girls page</A>
|w|w|
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Children are born sinful, and willful, and must have thatThis discussion is very interesting to me. I used to be a cynical, often
> trained out of them. They must have their wills broken. They must learn
> to
> obey, and not to act on their own (sinful) desires.
>
>
depressed, angry person at home. I couldn't understand why my daughter wasn't
"good" or "normal", and tried to discipline her to prove i wasn't a BAD
parent. I found the Lord in February 2000. I was baptised Catholic as an
infant, but had no churching growing up. I had a distaste for anything
remotely religious, couldn't read or listen to anything that was pushing the
bible. Then one day God moved in me. I have been a member of a Baptist church
for over 2 years now. I have never seen the vengeful God represented, but a
loving and forgiving God. I don't believe in a religion, I believe in a
RELATIONSHIP, religion is often the wrong way to go about it. I believe
children have innocence, and free wills. I believe I model my life for my
children, and if the fruit they see is what matters to them, they will want
what I have. But they are free to choose whatever philosophy they feel is
right. If i want to "win" my children to Christ, then I better make a life a
powerful witness. My oldest almost 10yo daughter professed her faith not
long after I did, when she was 7. I wasn't sure if she had the
"accountability" or understanding, that maybe she was just following my
example. So we have not yet discussed baptism, and she says she knew Jesus
was real before I met him, before she knew His name. She leaned on Him when
Mommy used to have rage and resentment and when I thought my child was doing
things intentionally to get me mad. Boy have I come a long way. I think it
was ingrained in me from the (lack of) parenting skills my father had. But
God is good, faithful and very forgiving. He has led me to learn why I acted
the way I did, what I can do daily to change and get better, and led me to
homeschooling, unschooling, rebonding with my baby whom I was disconnected
from for so long, because I was measured based on her public behavior. I
have a very shameful history of poor parent conduct, desperate at times, and
I daily have to wonder what I am accountable for in my daughters behavior and
who she is due to the pain I subjected her to. I always knew I loved her, and
thought that was enough, but one day the question occured to me does she know
i love her, beyond a shadow of a doubt. I am so thankful to be where we are
now, growing and loving and learning together, and all hope is not lost.
Ironically, I was trying to train her and break her will before I found the
Lord, and I don't feel that is the way He has led me since. He taught me to
love her and accept her, nurture her and treasure her, the way He does me,
His child. I believe he has shown me to trust my instincts that were
previously mostly ignored, trying to trust "experts" that knew better than
me. I wished I had coslept and carried my 10yo dd, the bond was being severed
as early as my practice of "separation parenting", which is the societal norm
and direct opposite of attachment parenting that I practice with my
subsequent children. If I come across any Southern Baptists or Christians who
believe the way you portray, I would pray for them and not listen to them for
a minute. It is also ironic that I am a homeschooler and Christian, I am not
a homeschooler because it's the Christian thing to do, I am an unschooler
because I am led to believe it is the parenting thing to do, I just happen to
be a Christian. I have met some Christian homeschoolers, and joined a
Christian group, but I am sure I am not like many of them!
I love this group and enjoy learning not only about unschooling, but learning
so much about myself from the reflection here. Thanks, I am grateful for all
of you!
Ang
SAHM to
Megan Elizabeth 8/8/92 8lbs 8oz
Ashlyn Olivia 7/25/99 9lbs 8oz
Christian James 6/09/01 9lbs 5oz
*NEW* <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/megamom08/hometour.html">Ang's Virtual Home Tour</A>
<A HREF="http://www.twgallery.8m.com/MEGAMOM08.html">Meet MEGAMOM08</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/christian.html">Christian's Birth Story</A>
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/mygirlspage.html">My Girls page</A>
|w|w|
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:41:47 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
when we were young and celebrated some of the special events during the
year, her children were not active participants in her faith. My father
was a completely non spiritual, non religious person and didn't tolerate
my mothers beliefs well.
child for the first time and not believe they are perfect. I can't
imagine any belief in any God being bigger or stronger than the belief in
your own child. Might explain why I'm a heathen. <g>
Deb L
> Deb L, what was your religious upbringing? Please answer that, atNone, really. My mother is Jewish and although she kept a kosher house
> least on
> the side, because I truly personally want to know.
when we were young and celebrated some of the special events during the
year, her children were not active participants in her faith. My father
was a completely non spiritual, non religious person and didn't tolerate
my mothers beliefs well.
>TheI know you're right but it's hard for me to imagine they can hold their
> overwhelming belief of people in the English speaking world, and if
> not of
> thiions is this: Children are born sinful, and willful, and must
> have that
> trained out of them.
child for the first time and not believe they are perfect. I can't
imagine any belief in any God being bigger or stronger than the belief in
your own child. Might explain why I'm a heathen. <g>
> I believe they are beings who are eager to fill themselves up withI like that. Let's hope they find some.
> our
> goodness and rightness and knowledge.
Deb L
[email protected]
> and her mom askedI don't know. She wants to talk about it. I don't know what this mom
> > last Wednesday if I would "homeschool" her next
> > year.
>
> Are you? How did you reply?
thinks "homeschool" is at my house and once she does know, she'll
probably change her mind. I don't even know what her daughter thinks of
the idea, but I know she's been unhappy at school.
I know this mom loves her daughter, but I don't understand why she would
ask someone else to homeschool her. I'm worried about that.
I like this girl immensely and I've been sad for what she goes through at
school and maybe at home too. I could easily have her with me every day,
she's bright and lively and wonderful. I'm worried about the mom and
that she's maybe always looked to someone else to fix or be accountable
for everything. I'm worried about how much a happy time at my house
would be used against her in unhappy times at hers.
It's a lot to think about.
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/2/02 12:11:05 PM, ddzimlew@... writes:
<< > Deb L, what was your religious upbringing? Please answer that, at
Well there it is.
Richard Prystosky (whose mother was Jewish, and grandmothers on all sides,
etc.) and I did a talk called "To Question or Not to Question, That is the
Question." What it was really about was how the way in which we were raised
affects the way we see and treat our children, and what we can do to change
where we came from if necessary. What it was REALLY really about was how to
overcome an ignorant Christian upbringing by acting more like Jewish families
act.
There's a tape available of it, I think. If you follow a link from
SandraDodd.com/speaking you'll come to the tape ordering instructions.
Sandra
<< > Deb L, what was your religious upbringing? Please answer that, at
> least on<<None, really. My mother is Jewish >>
> the side, because I truly personally want to know.
Well there it is.
Richard Prystosky (whose mother was Jewish, and grandmothers on all sides,
etc.) and I did a talk called "To Question or Not to Question, That is the
Question." What it was really about was how the way in which we were raised
affects the way we see and treat our children, and what we can do to change
where we came from if necessary. What it was REALLY really about was how to
overcome an ignorant Christian upbringing by acting more like Jewish families
act.
There's a tape available of it, I think. If you follow a link from
SandraDodd.com/speaking you'll come to the tape ordering instructions.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/2/02 12:37:09 PM, ddzimlew@... writes:
<< I know this mom loves her daughter, but I don't understand why she would
ask someone else to homeschool her. I'm worried about that. >>
I would say no, I'll keep her during the day for money, though, and I'll help
you homeschool her. If most of her learning happens at my house, great, but
it won't ALL happen at my house! Or charge her even more, tell her you're
homeschooling her, then you can "give her homework" (which would be
unschooling directives not to be overshadowed by any nasty schoolwork <g>)
and soon the mom would understand unschooling AND see that giving you cash to
do it is goofy. <g>
Another concern would be crowding your own family with a commitment to
another child, so the money would have to be real and not token.
A friend (not much of a friend anymore) used to give me $10 a day to keep her
kids for free. I volunteered, sometimes for a week or two at a time, when
the mom had to work and the dad wasn't around. I'd offer to do it for
nothing, and she would give me $50 a week or $10 a day. That was pretty
irritating, because for $10 I couldn't even take her two and my three for a
Happy Meal.
Sandra
<< I know this mom loves her daughter, but I don't understand why she would
ask someone else to homeschool her. I'm worried about that. >>
I would say no, I'll keep her during the day for money, though, and I'll help
you homeschool her. If most of her learning happens at my house, great, but
it won't ALL happen at my house! Or charge her even more, tell her you're
homeschooling her, then you can "give her homework" (which would be
unschooling directives not to be overshadowed by any nasty schoolwork <g>)
and soon the mom would understand unschooling AND see that giving you cash to
do it is goofy. <g>
Another concern would be crowding your own family with a commitment to
another child, so the money would have to be real and not token.
A friend (not much of a friend anymore) used to give me $10 a day to keep her
kids for free. I volunteered, sometimes for a week or two at a time, when
the mom had to work and the dad wasn't around. I'd offer to do it for
nothing, and she would give me $50 a week or $10 a day. That was pretty
irritating, because for $10 I couldn't even take her two and my three for a
Happy Meal.
Sandra
[email protected]
> There's a tape available of it, I think. If you follow a link fromThanks, I'll look for it.
> SandraDodd.com/speaking you'll come to the tape ordering
> instructions.
Deb L
[email protected]
> and soon the mom would understand unschooling AND see that givingCash? There could be cash involved? Where did I leave her number...?
> you cash to
> do it is goofy. <g>
<g>
Good idea's, thanks.
Deb L
Fetteroll
on 6/2/02 2:33 PM, ddzimlew@... at ddzimlew@... wrote:
an insanely complex task that even experts have problems handling it. It
seems as daunting as returning 3 Mars astronauts to Earth without training
or expert to help you. So many parents are pretty eager to have anyone who
seems better than they are take over because their children's futures' are
at stake.
Joyce
> I know this mom loves her daughter, but I don't understand why she wouldShe's scared. Society has convinced people that educating children is such
> ask someone else to homeschool her.
an insanely complex task that even experts have problems handling it. It
seems as daunting as returning 3 Mars astronauts to Earth without training
or expert to help you. So many parents are pretty eager to have anyone who
seems better than they are take over because their children's futures' are
at stake.
Joyce
The Gernerts
Ang,
I am with you. I am a Christian too. I find that I am a way more relaxed homeschooler
than many since I move from NC to Michigan. Homeschooling is different here than
there. There are many who are more relaxed in NC than here in MI. I can't quite call
myself an unschooler, but am relaxed. I love the time that homeschooling gives me
with my two girls.
Tarla
I am with you. I am a Christian too. I find that I am a way more relaxed homeschooler
than many since I move from NC to Michigan. Homeschooling is different here than
there. There are many who are more relaxed in NC than here in MI. I can't quite call
myself an unschooler, but am relaxed. I love the time that homeschooling gives me
with my two girls.
Tarla
>
> This discussion is very interesting to me. I used to be a cynical,
> often
> depressed, angry person at home. I couldn't understand why my
> daughter wasn't
> "good" or "normal", and tried to discipline her to prove i wasn't a
> BAD
> parent. I found the Lord in February 2000. I was baptised Catholic as
> an
> infant, but had no churching growing up. I had a distaste for
> anything
> remotely religious, couldn't read or listen to anything that was
> pushing the
> bible. Then one day God moved in me. I have been a member of a
> Baptist church
> for over 2 years now. I have never seen the vengeful God represented,
> but a
> loving and forgiving God. I don't believe in a religion, I believe in
> a
> RELATIONSHIP, religion is often the wrong way to go about it. I
> believe
> children have innocence, and free wills. I believe I model my life
> for my
> children, and if the fruit they see is what matters to them, they
> will want
> what I have. But they are free to choose whatever philosophy they
> feel is
> right. If i want to "win" my children to Christ, then I better make a
> life a
> powerful witness. My oldest almost 10yo daughter professed her faith
> not
> long after I did, when she was 7. I wasn't sure if she had the
> "accountability" or understanding, that maybe she was just following
> my
> example. So we have not yet discussed baptism, and she says she knew
> Jesus
> was real before I met him, before she knew His name. She leaned on
> Him when
> Mommy used to have rage and resentment and when I thought my child
> was doing
> things intentionally to get me mad. Boy have I come a long way. I
> think it
> was ingrained in me from the (lack of) parenting skills my father
> had. But
> God is good, faithful and very forgiving. He has led me to learn why
> I acted
> the way I did, what I can do daily to change and get better, and led
> me to
> homeschooling, unschooling, rebonding with my baby whom I was
> disconnected
> from for so long, because I was measured based on her public
> behavior. I
> have a very shameful history of poor parent conduct, desperate at
> times, and
> I daily have to wonder what I am accountable for in my daughters
> behavior and
> who she is due to the pain I subjected her to. I always knew I loved
> her, and
> thought that was enough, but one day the question occured to me does
> she know
> i love her, beyond a shadow of a doubt. I am so thankful to be where
> we are
> now, growing and loving and learning together, and all hope is not
> lost.
> Ironically, I was trying to train her and break her will before I
> found the
> Lord, and I don't feel that is the way He has led me since. He taught
> me to
> love her and accept her, nurture her and treasure her, the way He
> does me,
> His child. I believe he has shown me to trust my instincts that were
> previously mostly ignored, trying to trust "experts" that knew better
> than
> me. I wished I had coslept and carried my 10yo dd, the bond was being
> severed
> as early as my practice of "separation parenting", which is the
> societal norm
> and direct opposite of attachment parenting that I practice with my
> subsequent children. If I come across any Southern Baptists or
> Christians who
> believe the way you portray, I would pray for them and not listen to
> them for
> a minute. It is also ironic that I am a homeschooler and Christian, I
> am not
> a homeschooler because it's the Christian thing to do, I am an
> unschooler
> because I am led to believe it is the parenting thing to do, I just
> happen to
> be a Christian. I have met some Christian homeschoolers, and joined a
> Christian group, but I am sure I am not like many of them!
>
> I love this group and enjoy learning not only about unschooling, but
> learning
> so much about myself from the reflection here. Thanks, I am grateful
> for all
> of you!
> Ang
> SAHM to
> Megan Elizabeth 8/8/92 8lbs 8oz
> Ashlyn Olivia 7/25/99 9lbs 8oz
> Christian James 6/09/01 9lbs 5oz
> *NEW* <A
> HREF="http://www.geocities.com/megamom08/hometour.html">Ang's Virtual
> Home Tour</A>
> <A HREF="http://www.twgallery.8m.com/MEGAMOM08.html">Meet
> MEGAMOM08</A>
> <A
> HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/christian.html">Christian's
> Birth Story</A>
> <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/megamom08/mygirlspage.html">My
> Girls page</A>
> |w|w|
>
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