Mary Hickman

Hello,

First a citrus story. My little guy got sprayed with a "safe and non toxic"
citrus air freshener. He shreaked so loud I could barely get near him to
help. As I figured out what happened, I read the label, cold water and soap
to remove, so into the tub he went to get off this oily mess. His sister was
showing him how neat the tiny drops looked. He got it on his thigh, he was
sitting on the toilet. In the eye and I'm wondering if he would still see.
His skin flared up red and swollen and he said he thought he was dying. As
much as I love low toxic stuff, citrus oil is powerful.

Now my newest twist. Ashley has asked to try school. She will be 8 in
October, heading into 3rd grade in the fall she says. So, now what. I always
told myself school may be part of our unschooling journey if the kids ask to
go. Before I talk deep with her about this issue, I was hoping for some
great talking here about the pros and cons of trying school as an
unschooling family. Has anyone here experienced school for a trial? I'm
wondering what she thinks she needs from school? She does play with lots of
schooled kids and this may be the source of her curiousity. Part of me is
game for trying, another part says once she starts she may never come back
home to us. And I bet her brother will want to try too, he would be K and I
really want him to stay home. He is one of those big moving boys, he would
find himself constantly remindered to sit and be quiet. He also does not
seperate well from me unless he decides to go somewhere. Just as we think
all is well, change again. I have 10 weeks or so to work this issue through.

Talk to you soon,

Mary

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Nancy Wooton

on 5/28/02 8:43 AM, Mary Hickman at mfhick@... wrote:

> Now my newest twist. Ashley has asked to try school. She will be 8 in
> October, heading into 3rd grade in the fall she says. So, now what. I always
> told myself school may be part of our unschooling journey if the kids ask to
> go. Before I talk deep with her about this issue, I was hoping for some
> great talking here about the pros and cons of trying school as an
> unschooling family. Has anyone here experienced school for a trial? I'm
> wondering what she thinks she needs from school?

That would be something to ask her. When my son was 2nd grade age, he asked
about it. He said, "Mommy, I think I'm smart enough to go to school." !!!!
Poor little guy had gotten the idea -- probably from his Little League
teammates -- that he wasn't in school because he was dumb. So, (taking a
deep breath) I asked him what he thought they did in first and second grade;
he didn't know. I told him mostly what they did was teach the kids to read.
I asked, "Do you know how to read?" "Yes," he replied, looking at me like I
was an idiot, since he'd been reading since he was 4. "Then what would you
do all day, while they teach the other kids to read?" "Oh. Okay!"

That was it. I had no idea he even thought about school until then. His
Little League pals thought it was their right to quiz him, of course, and
they were all most anxious about multiplication, so they'd ask him to solve
big long problems they themselves weren't up to. Stinkers! (It never got
better, btw... 2 seasons later, Alex walked off the team because of their
harassment, despite his love for baseball.)

Nancy

Kinkade

>> Now my newest twist. Ashley has asked to try school. She will be 8 in October, heading into 3rd grade in the fall she says. So, now what. I always told myself school may be part of our unschooling journey if the kids ask to go. >>

Both of my dds asked me at different times if they could go to school also. I too wondered why they would want to go. So, I asked, of course fearing the same things as you. But their answers surprised me. My oldest dd, 11 at the time, told me she just wondered what it was like. She thought she might have fun there. My youngest dd, 8 at the time, told me that she would like to make more friends and that school is fun, so it seemed like a great place to make friends. While I always try to let my children be a part of their education, I didn't feel that they were able to make a choice like this one. Perhaps many of you will disagree with this. But I felt that this was one decision they didn't have the ability to choose. It was mine and my dh who decided they should not go. But I did tell them about school. We told them what kids do in school all day. We also told them that we valued their opinions, but that in this case we felt that we were better able to make this choice for them. They were very ok with it. Neither one of them even seemed to care that we had said no. They both just said, ok, and went off and played. At the end of this school year, we had our annual evaluation, done by a certified teacher. It went very well. We met the teacher at the school she works, in her classroom. She was very nice and friendly with all of us. And she seemed very positive about homeschoolers. My oldest dd told me that she was so worried that the teacher would make her stay, and that she would have to go to school. Hmmmm, quite a change in just 1 year. My youngest dd, told me that she never wanted to have a teacher do an evaluation again, she said she couldn't believe that kids had to go to that place and stay all day, every day. She said it felt like she was in a prison or hospital. She said that she felt very sorry for those kids in the ps. Again, I was surprised at what 1 year did.

I think that homeschool kids, perhaps not all, wonder at some time, what it would be like. They know that alot of kids go away to school. So they think there might be something they are missing. See, homeschooled kids, especially Unschooled kids, think school is fun. They think learning is an enjoyable thing. It's hard for them to imagine that there are kids who don't want to learn, that hate school.

IMHO I would say don't let your daughter experiment with this. If you truly feel that you are doing the best thing for her, by homeschooling/unschooling, then you should talk to her. See if you can find out why she wants to go. Perhaps it's just curiosity, and you can talk with her to help her understand what the reality of ps. But I wouldn't let her go. Remember you are the parent and not all choices should be made by her.

Rebecca


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen

Sean wanted to go to school this time last year. When I questioned him, he
said he wanted to see the new wing at the school (he was there K-2nd grade),
he wanted to go to recess and see his friends, and he wanted to be the
oldest there (as a fifth grader). Dh and I decided that none of those
reasons were good enough to change our entire lifestyle to accommodate his
request. I did arrange more playdates with old school friends, and offered
to go up and tour the school with him (he declined). By the time school
started last fall, he wasn't talking about it anymore. A few weeks ago (I
may have posted this already) when I was describing a typical school day, he
thought it sounded like something the Taliban would organize. Big difference
in a year!

karen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Tue, 28 May 2002 08:43:27 -0700 "Mary Hickman" <mfhick@...>
writes:
Ashley has asked to try school. She will be 8
> in
> October, heading into 3rd grade in the fall she says.


I suppose I would try to get a feeling for just how much she understands
about what happens in school, about how long the days are, about having
to raise your hand to talk or pee or get a drink. I'm guessing her
friends who go to school tell her the fun stuff that happens during the
fifteen minute recess but don't talk that much about what goes on the
rest of the time. Does she know about homework and having to keep quiet
and not being able to dye her hair blue?( One of Dylan's friends was sent
home this year because she dyed the tips of her blond hair blue.)

There is maybe no way you can make her aware of these things without it
seeming like a kind of brainwashing, but then she'll get that anyway if
she goes to school, just in a different fashion.

Is there one little friend she's especially close with and would like
more time with?
Summer vacation might take care of that. Or maybe she could join
something else the friend is in, gymnastics or campfire or whatever.

I don't remember where or when I read it, maybe on a list somewhere but a
mother equated school with a toxic waste dump. She said she wouldn't let
her kid play at the one, so why would she let her play at the other?
Maybe not everyone feels school is as bad as a toxic waste dump, but if
we didn't all have our suspicions, we wouldn't have bothered to keep our
kids out in the first place.

Is there not enough going on at home that's interesting to her? I
remember we had to try so hard during the summer my dad was sick, to find
and do interesting things, because we were so busy caring for him. I
know it was a hard summer for Dylan, because we just couldn't take off
and go like we usually can. If you do a lot of wonderful things this
summer and listen to her ideas about what other wonderful things she'd
like to do when summer's over, maybe home is where she'll want to be.

I know you've said she sometimes has conflicts with her brother, does she
feel like school would be an easy way to get a break from him? Could she
be using the school idea to get more of your attention if she feels like
too much of it is going to little brother? Is something happening at
home that she'd like to get away from? ( did my mother secretly move in
with you??)

Deb L

Tia Leschke

>
>Now my newest twist. Ashley has asked to try school. She will be 8 in
>October, heading into 3rd grade in the fall she says. So, now what. I always
>told myself school may be part of our unschooling journey if the kids ask to
>go. Before I talk deep with her about this issue, I was hoping for some
>great talking here about the pros and cons of trying school as an
>unschooling family. Has anyone here experienced school for a trial?

When my son would have been in grade 7, he announced that he was thinking
of school for the next year. I arranged for him to go for 3 days. He
actually liked it and wanted to go the next year. We told him that he
could go if he was near grade level in the basics. He had only barely
learned to read a little bit by then. I was really uncomfortable with the
idea of sending him to middle school barely reading and writing, not just
because it would have been hard for him. I also didn't want to give the
teacher's union any ammunition against homeschoolers.

He did little towards getting better at reading and writing, and it didn't
come up again by the time school started the next year. About mid-year, he
started again saying that he wanted to try it. We told him he could, but
that he had to do school-at-home for a month first. I set up a schedule as
much like school as I could. At first he really got into it, but it wasn't
long before we were fighting about it. (I know, I should have just backed
off then.) I finally decided that it was up to him to decide whether he
was ready for high school (grade 9). At that point his academic skills
were only slightly better. He kept me on edge till the very end of summer
before deciding he wouldn't go.

My granddaughter insisted this winter that she wanted to try school, so my
daughter set up a trial. She went to grade 2 for a week. Her take on
school? Her teacher was mean, and it was boring. She liked recess and
lunch, but not well enough to keep going. My daughter told her that she
could call home if she wasn't happy there, but the teacher wouldn't let
her. Even when she brought a note saying that she should be allowed to
call, the teacher wouldn't let her. This woman was actually the perfect
teacher for a kid that you hope will choose homeschooling. <g>

>I'm
>wondering what she thinks she needs from school? She does play with lots of
>schooled kids and this may be the source of her curiousity. Part of me is
>game for trying, another part says once she starts she may never come back
>home to us. And I bet her brother will want to try too, he would be K and I
>really want him to stay home. He is one of those big moving boys, he would
>find himself constantly remindered to sit and be quiet. He also does not
>seperate well from me unless he decides to go somewhere. Just as we think
>all is well, change again. I have 10 weeks or so to work this issue through.

Both kids may decide not to go when the time comes, but even if they go, it
isn't likely to hold their interest for long if they have interesting
things to do at home and friends to interact with when they want to.
Another thing to consider is whether they're just wanting to ride the
school bus, or get a bunch of school supplies. Sometimes it's as simple as
taking bus rides and buying a bunch of school supplies for them. <g>
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

[email protected]

Hello all -
Dd (7) here wanted to pursue school out of curiosity too....she thought it
would be fun since she has 'seen' school on tv....pretty benign and some
social time....

I checked into the local school about her visiting but it was a no
go....(can't have strangers popping in and out - too disruptive)......I then
checked about us visiting the private schools in the area....that seemed to
be more do-able since we would be potential customers.....

In the end, if there is such a thing, we have some days where I drive down
the street and pick them up in the 'bus' and take them to 'school' via a
drive around the neighborhood....then we have 'fieldtrips' and when we return
home I switched from Sally the busdriver to Mom asking about her day and
seeing if she wants a snack before starting homework.....

I imagine that she will again express an interest in 'going' to school....and
we can explore that again......I really trust her sense that she would figure
out that it is not how she wants to spend her time every day....

best wishes....
Jane


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dana Matt

> I suppose I would try to get a feeling for just how
> much she understands
> about what happens in school, about how long the
> days are, about having
> to raise your hand to talk or pee or get a drink.
> I'm guessing her
> friends who go to school tell her the fun stuff that
> happens during the
> fifteen minute recess but don't talk that much about
> what goes on the
> rest of the time

I have to agree! I overheard a conversation between
my daughter and two public schooled neighbors...
They told her "Homeschool is so dumb! You don't even
get recess!" Luckily their argument didn't hold water
with Lauren....
Dana
Montana Mama

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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/29/02 11:24:52 AM, hoffmanwilson@... writes:

<< They told her "Homeschool is so dumb! You don't even
get recess!" Luckily their argument didn't hold water
with Lauren.... >>

"You don't get summer vacation" is similarly stunning, at first.

moonmeghan

<<<<--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/29/02 11:24:52 AM, hoffmanwilson@y...
writes:
>
> << They told her "Homeschool is so dumb! You don't even
> get recess!" Luckily their argument didn't hold water
> with Lauren.... >>
>
> "You don't get summer vacation" is similarly stunning, at
first.>>>>


I read this to Tamzin and she laughed out loud and said "That's
dumb! You can play anytime when you homeschool and you
don't need a vacation."

Meghan

Sue & Ron Patterson

Hi Mary,

Another possibility is for you to plan something big for that "Back to
School" time. I used to know a family in Alaska that went on vacation a few
days before school started in their neighborhood. Often, it extended into
that first week of school. That way, all the newness - the stuff that
sometimes seems fun to kids - is somewhat routine by the time they get back.
Remind Ashley that these are the same kids complaining and calling it a
prison to each other. It's often just a rivalry thing...."be true to your
school" <g> It's an opportunity to explain to the kids that people often
feel like they have to defend their choices when someone swims against the
flow. You might see what part she plays in those conversations. Michael
would often get argumentative with the other kids, trying to get them to see
that they had no choice and he did. His part in it all really kept the
argument alive, instead of letting it just die out. Wonder where he got that
argumentative nature??? ;-)

Another Alaskan thing we used to do was a big NOT-Back to School park day
that lasted all day. We'd sleep in, have a big breakfast. Call it a
Celebrate Freedom! Breakfast <g>. Talk about the fun stuff that we were
going to do that year. Feel sorry for the kids that had to be carted away
for another year. <eg> Then trek over to play all day with our friends at
the park. That was fun.

Plan something fun for that time. Wanna come out to Texas? <g>
Take care!

Sue
<:><:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
Sue Patterson
National Home Education Network:
http://www.nhen.org
<:><:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>

Barb Eaton

Sue and anyone else there,
I am trying to plan a trip to Texas. Around Houston. I'm still wondering
about the weather. I was thinking March after Snowboarding Season here (OH).
Would this be a good time, weather wise? Should we wait? What's been your
experience?

TIA
Barb E

on 5/31/02 4:47 PM, Sue & Ron Patterson at Patterson5@... wrote:


Plan something fun for that time. Wanna come out to Texas? <g>
Take care!

Sue



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Scott P. Cook

No offense intended to any of my fellow Texans, but having lived 9 years
in Houston, it's the last place in Texas I'd go for a vacation. Do you
have some reason you need to go to Houston as opposed to more pleasant
Texas cities? The humidity is frequently 97 and even 100%, and very
hot. Hot and very humid is as bad as it gets weather-wise. I've always
said that Houston has all the bad traits of a big city (traffic, crime,
pollution) without any of the good traits (public transportation, great
museums, etc). I will give Houston this, though - the commercial
architecture is very cool! Now, Austin and San Antonio - those are
awesome Texas cities to visit. But I can't go back to Texas without
venturing to the particularly charming Louisiana!

Laurel in Burke, VA (But always in my heart a Texan, and would move back
in a heartbeat)

-----Original Message-----
From: Barb Eaton [mailto:homemama@...]
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Texas weather/Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Asking to go to school


Sue and anyone else there,
I am trying to plan a trip to Texas. Around Houston. I'm still
wondering
about the weather. I was thinking March after Snowboarding Season here
(OH).
Would this be a good time, weather wise? Should we wait? What's been
your
experience?

TIA
Barb E

on 5/31/02 4:47 PM, Sue & Ron Patterson at Patterson5@...
wrote:


Plan something fun for that time. Wanna come out to Texas? <g>
Take care!

Sue



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barb Eaton

Well I have a friend that moved to Spring, TX last year. I'd like to visit
her. :-) I would like to go to San Antonio, maybe. Austin looks like it is
even closer to Spring. Texas is so huge. Each would be at lease a days
drive. Wouldn't they?

Where in Louisiana are a must see? My boys and I are really looking forward
to seeing more of our country before my oldest (16) doesn't want to anymore.
Thanks for your he*lp.:-)

Barb E

on 5/31/02 7:26 PM, Scott P. Cook at scottcook@... wrote:

No offense intended to any of my fellow Texans, but having lived 9 years
in Houston, it's the last place in Texas I'd go for a vacation. Do you
have some reason you need to go to Houston as opposed to more pleasant
Texas cities? The humidity is frequently 97 and even 100%, and very
hot. Hot and very humid is as bad as it gets weather-wise. I've always
said that Houston has all the bad traits of a big city (traffic, crime,
pollution) without any of the good traits (public transportation, great
museums, etc). I will give Houston this, though - the commercial
architecture is very cool! Now, Austin and San Antonio - those are
awesome Texas cities to visit. But I can't go back to Texas without
venturing to the particularly charming Louisiana!

Laurel in Burke, VA (But always in my heart a Texan, and would move back
in a heartbeat)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/31/02 9:39:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Another Alaskan thing we used to do was a big NOT-Back to School park day
that lasted all day. >>

Well, it wasn't an Alaskan thing down here, but we did have a couple of those
parties too. It was kinda fun, just celebrating that we didn't have to do the
school thing!!
One of them was at a big lake and we hiked in the woods, ate and swam all day.
If fact (linking back to another discussion) that's where I saw my first
Banana spider...I have pictures of it too!!
Ren

[email protected]

As a temporary Texan, I agree, If you have a choice, go to San Antonio and
Austin. SA has the most beautiful Paseo del Rio - The Riverwalk.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein