Sandra Dodd

I'm bringing something from Facebook, because it's worth looking at again, maybe. The first part is Cara Barlow, then me.
-------------------

I've been told, directly and indirectly, over the past few weeks that I'm expecting too much from members of the local unschooling groups I moderate. I have this weird idea that if you voluntarily join an unschooling group or email list, that you're interested in learning more about unschooling and honing your unschooling skills. Sigh.
____________

Sandra Dodd -=- I have this weird idea that if you voluntarily join an unschooling group or email list, that you're interested in learning more about unschooling and honing your unschooling skills.-=-

I used to think that too!!
And I still act like I think it. For many people it's true, and those are my target audience, and honored guests.

It turns out some are there because they're superstitious. Some are emotionally needy (not a crime). Some are mean and want to cause trouble for fun.

The superstitious ones think there is magic in touching a statue or a medal, or in "joining" an unschooling group. It's like touching holy water and thinking that's the same as being a good Catholic; like buying a prayer shawl, and thinking it's the same as praying and studying; like owning a statue of Buddha and thinking that makes them a Buddhist nun.

I'm not religious. The analogies don't mean this is a religion. It means there is a depth of understanding, and a practice of many years, that make unschooling work well. Joining a group, or subscribing to a magazine, or going to a conference (or a dozen conferences) isn't what it's about. Unschooling lives (is alive; breathes; functions) where the learning is happening. The learning is supported and fed by the relationships between the parents and chidren.

If I have a big woodpile, I don't have a fire. Even if I have a fireplace and matches and bellows and kindling and firestarters and a fire extinguisher and the chimney was just cleaned and inspected and I have a paper saying "good to go," I don't have a fire. Would wrought-iron fire tools on a cool rack help? What about a stained-glass fireplace screen, so no sparks can get out on the floor? I could subscribe to magazines for fireplace owners. I could join a yahoo group and a facebook page to talk about fires. I could be receiving catalogs with all kinds of fancy flameproof rugs and indoor wood racks and really cool slings for carrying wood in, and Ooh! What about a beautiful mantle?

Still no fire.

Meanwhile, the neighbors might have build a real, operating fire, in a little hole they dug and lined with scrap bricks or rocks, with wood they found in a vacant lot, and kindled it with old receipts and fast-food wrappers they found blown into the alley. Their fire has heat, their fire has light, if they're sitting around it talking and laughing, they have the benefit of the fire.

Some people want to look like they're interested and that they intend to hone their skills, but they don't actually want to do it, if it's going to involve any real combustion or change in them.

Meredith

> I've been told, directly and indirectly, over the past few weeks that I'm expecting too much from members of the local unschooling groups I moderate. I have this weird idea that if you voluntarily join an unschooling group or email list, that you're interested in learning more about unschooling and honing your unschooling skills. Sigh.
***************

Local groups are more often social or support groups and people absolutely expect that kind of focus. If you want something focused on learning about unschooling on a local level, you might do better with a book club or study group.

It might also help to clarify whether the group is intended to be inclusive or not. The "not" option is harder to express in ways that don't offend people, but it's really important to be up front about that. Not all groups Have To be inclusive - and one of the sources of friction within groups comes from differences of opinion as to whether the group is specifically inclusive, or intended to meet a narrower range of needs and interests.

---Meredith

Sandra Dodd

-=-Local groups are more often social or support groups and people absolutely expect that kind of focus. -=-

International groups are more often social and support groups than not, too. :-)

Some people expect that chit-chat teaparty nicety and fluff in ANY group and every group.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

> I've been told, directly and indirectly, over the past few weeks that I'm
> expecting too much from members of the local unschooling groups I moderate.
> I have this weird idea that if you voluntarily join an unschooling group or
> email list, that you're interested in learning more about unschooling and
> honing your unschooling skills. Sigh.


Unschooling groups can include people in widely varying stages of
unschooling and people who are not radical unschoolers and I don't think
that being on a local group email list is an invitation to others on that
list to critique my parenting or unschooling. A local list is more often
for planning activities, making announcements, and discussing how things
are going at park days or other get-togethers. It can even include people
who aren't unschooling, but like to hang out with unschoolers. My local
unschooling group has always had the policy that everybody is welcome but
they have to be a good "fit" - we wouldn't tolerate people who are too
harsh with their children or who spoke disparagingly about unschooling.

I would say if you want an actual unschooling discussion list with local
people - start that as a separate list and you write the description and be
very very clear that it is your list and you are setting the tone from the
beginning. I think the alwayslearning type of discussion list would be
difficult to do at a local level - people will get their feelings hurt.

-pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ncg8rfam

I love the analogy about the fire. I guess you could say we have a big collection of fire making stuff and just a little ember in the bottom of the fireplace. No real light or warmth from our fire yet. It just needs to be nurtured a little longer, given some air and some more fuel. We are working on this as a family even though it's a big learning curve for us (my kids are teens). I've learned so much from reading this list and made some pretty drastic (for me) changes in my thinking and actions toward learning and parenting. Thank you for your honest sharing.

Cara Barlow

I absolutely agree about the support aspect of local groups if by local
that means a group of people who are within a small geographic area who get
together socially.

If the group is statewide or regional and is clearly identified clearly as
a group for people who are unschooling or those interested in unschooling,
I think it's appropriate for the moderator say something to the effect of
"hey, wait a minute" when a post shows up that isn't unschooling-friendly
or is unclear.

It's almost like the statewide and regional lists I'm moderating with are
at a midpoint between a small social support group and what goes on here.
There are people meeting each other and arranging social events and sharing
opportunities, but there are also people asking for help on how to get
started unschooling, and myself and others sharing links to articles or
blogs about unschooling.

I haven't experienced people criticizing other's parenting, but we have had
discussions about articles and links that I've posted - the latest one that
started a discussion was a Pam Laricchia quote about unschooling being
hard. Someone, who I don't think is unschooling but is considering it,
posted in response that unschooling wasn't hard, it was "just living
life." That gave me a "hey, wait a minute" moment, I wrote a response, and
the discussion went on.

There's a lot of interest in unschooling in the homeschool community and
some people cherry-pick the parts of unschooling that fit their lives. One
of the local-to-me general homeschooling groups recently offered a seminar
called "Unschooling for Uptight Parents" The presenter was admittedly not
an unschooler and never had been.

In a sense I feel like I need to be *more* clear about unschooling if
there's a largish contingent of relaxed homeschoolers reading. I feel like
I have a responsibility to offer good information. I suspect that members
who feel like I'm expecting too much probably aren't comfortable with me
pointing out when a post is getting too far afield or is confusing. And
yes, it's my idea of what's too far afield or confusing :-)

Best wishes, Cara


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-We are working on this as a family even though it's a big learning curve for us (my kids are teens). -=-

Maybe you've already found these, but just in case you hadn't:

http://sandradodd.com/later/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- Someone, who I don't think is unschooling but is considering it,
posted in response that unschooling wasn't hard, it was "just living
life." That gave me a "hey, wait a minute" moment, I wrote a response, and
the discussion went on.-=-

If someone says something entirely wrong or disparaging about unschooling, I defend myself. Having unschooled three real people, for real, I resent people know know less suggesting that what I did was really nothing.

Someone said something rude about unschooling on a statewide list here�a list I myself created and maintained in a neutral fashion. I never even had a link by my name. I didn't write about unschooling there. One day, though, it went into anti-unschooling crap and I responded, and people hooted back, and I left. Gave the list to someone else and left, because that's bullshit.

And the group died. Because they were smart enough to think it was okay to insult unschoolers, but not smart enough, apparently, to maintain a yahoogroup. I was pretty disgusted with them, but I hope their kids grew up happy.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

I sometimes talk about these kinds of unschooling perception issues
with Jayn (13).

She said unschooling is like a white tube sock. The sock is the same
but the shape changes to fit all the different feet.

I rather like the analogy.

Robyn L. Coburn
WWW.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
WWW.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
WWW.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com