Marília Di Cesare

My 5-year old hates praise from strangers. When people say ¨You are beautiful¨, or ¨You look like a princess¨, she sticks her tongue out and lately she´s been calling them stupid.

We were living away for 1,5 year. Once we came back to our town, I warned her that lots of people would talk to her or try to touch her because they remembered her, but she wouldn´t recognize them and it would piss her off. I asked her to try and be patient about it.

But each time someone says she is beautiful (usually quick encounters at the street), she will stick her tongue out to them and yell them stupid. I apologize to the person and I´ll tell them that she doesn´t like people to talk to her, or touch her until she has some intimacy.

Then I talk to her about it (after we are alone again), that I understand that she doesn´t like people talking to her, or touching her, I really do, but it´s not ok to yell ¨You are stupid¨ at them. I try to wonder about options on what to do, but I can´t really come up with anything that she could do instead.

I even think that sticking her tongue out is ok, after considering that doing just this would be much better than yelling, but I didn´t say it was.

I don´t know how to make her stop without using any pusnishment. I haven´t used any, all I do is tell her every time that it´s not acceptable to yell at people. That she has to be patient and wait until they are gone. Yesterday I told her that when someone starts telling how beautiful she is, I will tell them that she doesn´t like it so they stop, but she has to wait until I can do it and not react like that. Her reaction is so fast.

I defend her when people are obviously about to touch her head and I put my hand between them and I say: ¨She doesn´t like to be touched¨.

Sometimes it´s inevitable. While I´m talking to someone, they´ll just touch her unexpectedly and they will hear her rage.

I have a hard time understanding how to not tolerate behaviors like this without being punitive. I´m not punitive anyway, but at times like these, I fell like it.

I´d love some ideas on how to handle this.

Marilia (single mom of a 5-year old)

jo kirby

Hi Marilia,

Your situation struck me as being similar in some ways to something we have going on currently, which is that my (also 5 year old) son is often pretty unfriendly to his Dad when he comes home/comes in the room etc. He makes growling noises at him, and calls him 'stinky'. Like you I ask him calmly but firmly not to do that, that it is not nice for his daddy, but it's such an instant reaction, like your daughter. I am pretty sure it is beyond what he can do at the moment to stop himself. I think it's a representation of how he feels in the moment.

I am hoping that, with age, he will come to use different tools when he is frustrated, which he does already in some other situations. I am also hoping that in time, he will come to not resent/dislike his daddy coming home!

I too, will be interested in any advice you get.
All the best,
Jo






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Meredith

Marília Di Cesare <mariliadicesare@...> wrote:
>I try to wonder about options on what to do, but I can´t really come up with anything that she could do instead.
****************

Other than say "thank you"? It's tricky because any other response could come across as rude. Why doesn't she like people to say those things? Could she say "I'd rather be a ninja" or "I'm a cat, not a princess" or whatever her reason is? Maybe you could say those things for her.

Would she like to wear a veil or mask in public so people can't see her face? They may say something else, like "why are you wearing a mask?" but it also could be that the extra layer of separation could help her feel safe. Will she ride in a stroller with a layer of gauze or bug netting?

If you have a car, drive more and walk less, if you're meeting people on the street. Or go places when there are less people around. Just before you leave the house, remind your daughter of whatever the plan is - you might experiment with a few things, so remind her of the day's script and then when you get home check in and decide if it was helpful or not. If you have a little notice when you're out, remind her again - Mrs So-and-so is coming, remember to tell her you're a cat today. Reminders can help a lot! They give kids a chance to think a little before reacting so they don't just blurt out the first thing which comes to mind.

>>> I don´t know how to make her stop without using any pusnishment.

Punishing her won't necessarily stop her, either - that's one of the catches with punishment. If kids can change their behavior, punishment often isn't necessary. And if they can't, it's not terribly effective. It's more like a kind of revenge than a type of behavior modification.

> Sometimes it´s inevitable. While I´m talking to someone, they´ll just touch her unexpectedly and they will hear her rage.
******************

Keep yourself between her and other people and become very very sensitive to their movements with relation to her so you can block them - gently but firmly. It might help to tell people she's very sensitive.

>>> I have a hard time understanding how to not tolerate behaviors like this without being punitive.
***************

Step away from the words "do not tolerate" - they back you into a corner. Look for ways to set her up for better interactions with other people by protecting her boundaries and creating options to help her feel safer.

---Meredith

Pam Sorooshian

Protect her from other people who won't be understanding. Make a big effort
to plan ahead so you do not have to take her out in public. It isn't
forever - it will pass.

If she wants to go somewhere - be really kind about it but tell her that
there will be people and she'll need to be polite. If she's not, apologize
to the other people and leave. But leave as easily and lightly as you can -
don't make it a punishment - try to make the leaving as pleasant as
possible, given the circumstances. She may not be happy about it - but just
treat it kind of matter-of-factly and say, "We're going to go on to the
park now," or "We're going to take off now - want to stop and get ice cream
on the way home?" Something like that. If she wants to know why you're
leaving, I would be honest and say, "Sticking out your tongue and yelling
at people isn't okay so we're going to do something else."

Think of it like when you had a toddler who was playing really loudly in a
restaurant. Maybe the child didn't want to leave the restaurant, but surely
you might have distracted her with something to do outside while you waited
for food to arrive to the table to keep her busy there.

Be kind - but be firm about not sticking around to yell or be rude.

-pam


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sheeboo2

---Keep yourself between her and other people and become very very sensitive to
their movements with relation to her so you can block them - gently but firmly.
It might help to tell people she's very sensitive.-----

Michael or I used to hold Noor, even when she was five, so that she was able to put her head down on our shoulder and not look at whomever was talking to her. We'd say something like, "she prefers not to talk right now....."

Be proactive. When you see the nice old lady you used to know years ago making a B-line to come talk to you, say, "Hi! This is ___ she doesn't feel like talking right now and please don't touch her."

Something else that helped was making sure she could have something in her hands to look at--in a stroller, wagon, shopping cart, if she was busy looking at something, it was a lot easier to get people to talk to me rather than to her.

We did coach her on saying, "I'm a DragonCat/Dog/Cat" when people called her princess.

And yes, make sure that you prep her before outings about what to expect AND reassure her that you'll take over and make sure she feels safe/comfortable/etc.

For some people, it is painful to have someone invade your space. Keep that in mind. Feel for her rather than being embarrassed by her. She isn't being bad, she's *very* uncomfortable.

Around 7, Noor outgrew freaking out when strangers talked to her. She's quite chatty now with just about everyone.

Brie

Sandra Dodd

-=- I am pretty sure it is beyond what he can do at the moment to stop himself. I think it's a representation of how he feels in the moment.-=-

Help him in advance.
If you believe that's the way he feels in the moment his dad comes home, then make a bigger, different kind of deal about the dad coming home, and have a plan for what to do or show his dad, or to say.

The idea that your child should feel safe and be comfortable in his own home is valid.

Your husband should feel safe and comfortable in his own home. You and your son should protect your husband's safety and comfort.

Sandra

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Pam Sorooshian

> -=- I am pretty sure it is beyond what he can do at the moment to stop
> himself. I think it's a representation of how he feels in the moment.-=-
>

What else would it be besides how he feels in the moment? I don't really
understand the above sentence.

If you mean he can't help himself - then it is up to you to head it off -
set the stage so that he doesn't feel that way. It must be pretty awful for
your husband.

I don't think it is terribly uncommon as a reaction, though. It probably is
because daddy coming home means his play will be interrupted and your
attention taken away.

It might help to engage him in getting ready to welcome daddy home - let
him make a welcome home note or sign to put up, decorate a cupcake for
daddy, draw a picture for him, make a lego creation and set it aside to
show daddy when he gets home. Etc.

Also - what does daddy do first when he walks in the door? Is he happy to
see your son? Give your husband a variety of little candies or something to
give his child right away - that is likely to change the atmosphere and
your son will probably feel quite different anticipating what daddy is
bringing him.

-pam


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otherstar

-=- I am pretty sure it is beyond what he can do at the moment to stop himself. I think it's a representation of how he feels in the moment.-=-

Help him in advance.
If you believe that's the way he feels in the moment his dad comes home, then make a bigger, different kind of deal about the dad coming home, and have a plan for what to do or show his dad, or to say.
************

I figured I would share some stories from our home to give some ideas of what this might look like.

Our 3 year old went through a phase where she would tell dad “I hate you” whenever he entered the room or looked at her. At first, I asked her not to say it but that didn’t work. I know my husband did not want to come home or walk into a room and hear that stuff so we talked about things that we could do. One of the things that worked was for him to scoop our daughter up and shower her with attention. She would be laughing while saying “I hate you Daddy”. Rather than taking it personally, my husband turned it into a game. I a not sure how to explain it but we think that our daughter was rejecting dad because dad was going to work and she didn’t want him to. At various points during the day, she will talk about wanting daddy home but then when he gets home she gets mad and rejects him.

Some things that we have done to make a big deal out of daddy’s arrival:

-The girls and I have walked down to the end of the driveway and greeted him so we could ride up the driveway with him.

-The girls and I have hidden from dad so that he had to find us when he got home. Dad was in on it so he knew that we were hiding. It was fun and the girls were all tickled over it because my husband is so good at acting surprised and scared and the girls think it is hilarious.

-We have cooked fancy dinners and had them waiting on dad.

-If the kids don’t acknowledge dad, I will try to shower him with attention.

-When my husband leaves work, he usually calls me and I make sure to let the kids know that dad is on his way home. I build it up because I genuinely look forward to my husband coming home every day.

-If we have done anything super cool during the day, I build up the fact that I can’t wait to share it with dad.

While my husband doesn’t like it when the younger ones say “I hate you” or other negative stuff, he recognizes that it is a phase and he doesn’t take it personally. The reason that he is able to not take it personally is because I have worked really hard to build him up. I will also interfere on his behalf. I try to do it playfully. Something along the lines of grabbing my husband and hugging him like a teddy bear and saying, “That’s okay, I love daddy enough for the both of us.” or something else that makes everyone laugh but makes it perfectly clear that it is NOT okay to talk to daddy that way.

Connie






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jo kirby

> -=- I am pretty sure it is beyond what he can do at the moment to stop

> himself. I think it's a representation of how he feels in the moment.-=-


*What else would it be besides how he feels in the moment? I don't really
understand the above sentence.*

The sentence wasn't clear enough. I meant that the way he shows his feelings in that moment (when my husband comes in) are to growl and say unkind things.

*Help him in advance. 
If you believe that's the way he feels in the moment his dad comes home, then make a bigger, different kind of deal about the dad coming home, and have a plan for what to do or show his dad, or to say.*


Yes, this definitely does help a lot. You have both reminded me that I need to be doing this more. I do do it often, but other times we (my son and I) are really into something and I forget and then it's too late. One thing that has helped is that my husband has recently started coming home at a regular time, so that makes it easier for me because I know when we can expect him.

*I don't think it is terribly uncommon as a reaction, though. It probably is
because daddy coming home means his play will be interrupted and your
attention taken away.*

I get this. Jay (my husband) and I talked about it. We usually limit our conversation down to a bare minimum when he comes home, in the hope that Sam doesn't associate Daddy coming in with himself losing out. I make a point to stay as focussed as I can on Sam and whatever we're doing. It seems to work ok from Sam's point of view, but not from Jay's. It's not promoting harmony and fun between us all.

*-The girls and I have hidden from dad so that he had to find us when he got home. Dad was in on it so he knew that we were hiding. It was fun and the girls were all tickled over it because my husband is so good at acting surprised and scared and the girls think it is hilarious.

While my husband doesn’t like it when the younger ones say “I hate you” or other negative stuff, he recognizes that it is a phase and he doesn’t take it personally. The reason that he is able to not take it personally is because I have worked really hard to build him up. I will also interfere on his behalf. I try to do it playfully. Something along the lines of grabbing my husband and hugging him like a teddy bear and saying, “That’s okay, I love daddy enough for the both of us.” or something else that makes everyone laugh but makes it perfectly clear that it is NOT okay to talk to daddy that way.*


Connie your post just came through while I was re-reading the above. Thank you so much, this all sounds a lot of fun, and much more inclusive than what I described above. I will definitely suggest the hiding thing - I think that will go down well all round...

Jo





________________________________





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Pam Sorooshian

If Jo's post seemed a little confusing - it was a revision of something
she'd tried to post, but I'd moderated it written her back with some
suggested changes and asked her to resubmit it. Some of what I wrote to her
is included in her post.

-Pam


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Marília Di Cesare

Thank you for the suggestions. I´ll definitely try some of them.

It was good to know that Noor grew out of it as well.

It´s a very honest way to communicate disconfort that can be improved, and if not, I can try to avoid situations and wait for it to pass.


--- In [email protected], "sheeboo2" <brmino@...> wrote:
>
> ---Keep yourself between her and other people and become very very sensitive to
> their movements with relation to her so you can block them - gently but firmly.
> It might help to tell people she's very sensitive.-----
>
> Michael or I used to hold Noor, even when she was five, so that she was able to put her head down on our shoulder and not look at whomever was talking to her. We'd say something like, "she prefers not to talk right now....."
>
> Be proactive. When you see the nice old lady you used to know years ago making a B-line to come talk to you, say, "Hi! This is ___ she doesn't feel like talking right now and please don't touch her."
>
> Something else that helped was making sure she could have something in her hands to look at--in a stroller, wagon, shopping cart, if she was busy looking at something, it was a lot easier to get people to talk to me rather than to her.
>
> We did coach her on saying, "I'm a DragonCat/Dog/Cat" when people called her princess.
>
> And yes, make sure that you prep her before outings about what to expect AND reassure her that you'll take over and make sure she feels safe/comfortable/etc.
>
> For some people, it is painful to have someone invade your space. Keep that in mind. Feel for her rather than being embarrassed by her. She isn't being bad, she's *very* uncomfortable.
>
> Around 7, Noor outgrew freaking out when strangers talked to her. She's quite chatty now with just about everyone.
>
> Brie
>

Marília Di Cesare

Thank you for the suggestions, I´ll try some of them.

And nice to know that Noor grew out of it.

I´ll keep in mind to not be embarassed, it´s a phase of my daughter´s life and I will try to make it more comfortable for her as well as coach best responses.

--- In [email protected], "sheeboo2" <brmino@...> wrote:
>
> ---Keep yourself between her and other people and become very very sensitive to
> their movements with relation to her so you can block them - gently but firmly.
> It might help to tell people she's very sensitive.-----
>
> Michael or I used to hold Noor, even when she was five, so that she was able to put her head down on our shoulder and not look at whomever was talking to her. We'd say something like, "she prefers not to talk right now....."
>
> Be proactive. When you see the nice old lady you used to know years ago making a B-line to come talk to you, say, "Hi! This is ___ she doesn't feel like talking right now and please don't touch her."
>
> Something else that helped was making sure she could have something in her hands to look at--in a stroller, wagon, shopping cart, if she was busy looking at something, it was a lot easier to get people to talk to me rather than to her.
>
> We did coach her on saying, "I'm a DragonCat/Dog/Cat" when people called her princess.
>
> And yes, make sure that you prep her before outings about what to expect AND reassure her that you'll take over and make sure she feels safe/comfortable/etc.
>
> For some people, it is painful to have someone invade your space. Keep that in mind. Feel for her rather than being embarrassed by her. She isn't being bad, she's *very* uncomfortable.
>
> Around 7, Noor outgrew freaking out when strangers talked to her. She's quite chatty now with just about everyone.
>
> Brie
>

Meredith

Marília Di Cesare <mariliadicesare@...> wrote:
>> It´s a very honest way to communicate disconfort that can be improved
****************

I don't know that I'd call it "honest" - it's a reaction, and momentary reactions aren't necessarily more honest than calmer, more considered reactions.

I sometimes imagine all my possible responses to a situation as being like a pile of laundry I've just pulled out of the dryer. What's on top isn't necessarily better to wear than what's underneath - it may be worse, but if I'm in a hurry, I'll grab the top think without stopping to sort and fold the rest. I'd Rather stop and sort and fold, though, and make decisions about better and worse - and in terms of reactions I'd rather use one which makes things better or at least does no harm. That's what helping your daughter have some distance and warning will do for her - it gives her a chance to do something Other than grab the top thing on the emotional pile and communicate in a way which is actually helpful.

This is where ideas of honest - or authentic - communication break down. It's not more honest or authentic for me to say "piss off" than to say "I need a little space" - it's certainly not more honest for me to insult someone to get that space! It's just the top piece of emotional laundry, something that needs to be tucked back down to the bottom of the bureau drawer and only brought out for the right occasion.

---Meredith

Sandra Dodd

-=-This is where ideas of honest - or authentic - communication break down. It's not more honest or authentic for me to say "piss off" than to say "I need a little space" - it's certainly not more honest for me to insult someone to get that space! It's just the top piece of emotional laundry, something that needs to be tucked back down to the bottom of the bureau drawer and only brought out for the right occasion. -=-

Very nicely said.

I'm tired of unschoolers grasping for excuses to be rude or to let their children be rude.

Partners should let their partners be awful if alternatives are near at hand.

Sandra




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Bernadette Lynn

On 29 June 2012 11:19, Marília Di Cesare <mariliadicesare@...> wrote:

> I defend her when people are obviously about to touch her head and I put
> my hand between them and I say: ¨She doesn´t like to be touched¨.
> =======================================
>


People might be less likely to touch her head if she wears a hat, maybe a
sunhat would help?


Bernadette.


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