[email protected]

In a message dated 5/8/2002 4:53:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


> << St Paul's Methodist Church is worse than
> Denny's. >>
>
> I don't think it's a chain of Methodist Churches is it??
>
> And 1966 was a lifetime ago. I think some women born in 1966 even have
> CHILDREN by now!! <g>

The Methodist church I went to here in Southern California in the 60's was
sending busloads of civil rights workers to the south to help register Black
voters. They had a "Mission on Racism" (still do) and worked hard and spent
their money and based their sermons on civil rights. I had my "consciousness
raised" there. I'm no longer a member - but my sisters and mom are still
there.

So - gee - do we boycott the chain of Methodist Churches or patronize them,
based on their pasts?

They occasionally invite me to talk to their youth classes about my religion,
the Baha'i Faith.

--pamS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sharon Rudd

> > I don't think it's a chain of Methodist Churches
> is it??

Well yes. There are different "varieties" of
Methodist, too. For example, Mt. Zion Methodist is WAY
different. It is non-liturgical. When I visited there,
I was the only "White". When the pastor said "Make a
joyful noise", they did (dancing, clapping). The
Pastor was selected by his personal calling. The
pastor has to have separate income, in order to eat.
Each of that type is unique to itself and
congregation. St. Paul's has a beaurocratic hierarchy
whose pastors were (are?) selected by means of
applications and interviews and refererrals after (or
anticipation of) graduation from either seminary or
college with relevant majors and additional training
in their field. Preaching is a career with good
housing, reasonable compensation and status.

I had a Black volunteer (Family Outreach
program....child abuse prevention) who was a priest
with the Episcopalian Church (on the FAMU campus).
One day he commented that after 20 years of active
civil rights efforts (this was about 1988 or so) that
discrimination was still entrenched in his chosen
church. He showed me that there were some Black
priests, particularly in Africa, a few whatever comes
next, and so on until there were NO Blacks at all
above a well established ceiling. I'm afraid I wasn't
too sympathetic. My comment was "What did you expect,
The Church of England, White Man's burden and all
that?" Now I am stepping on MORE toes!! The
Episcopalian (that I've met recently,in this area) are
some of the more open-minded folks!! And friendly.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > And 1966 was a lifetime ago. I think some women
> born in 1966 even have
> > CHILDREN by now!! <g>

Some have grands, too :-)

Some things are better, too. It just seems wrong to
me that ANY religion, or spiritual teaching, should
have EVER had as part of its teachings that some
people's genetic qualities are to be treated badly and
others rewarded. I also sometimes feel guilty for not
fighting the fight, anymore. There are lots of social
inequities and wrongs, in lots of areas. I think I
don't have the stamina I used to.
:-( I miss that endless energy. I am grateful that I
had access to it (energy...opportunities....) I just
hope it is only that, and not a failure of courage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> The Methodist church I went to here in Southern
> California in the 60's was
> sending busloads of civil rights workers to the
> south to help register Black
> voters. They had a "Mission on Racism" (still do)
> and worked hard and spent
> their money and based their sermons on civil rights.
> I had my "consciousness
> raised" there. I'm no longer a member - but my
> sisters and mom are still
> there.
>
> So - gee - do we boycott the chain of Methodist
> Churches or patronize them,
> based on their pasts?

Just be aware of the histories of the churches that
one joins or patronizes. There are bloody histories
behind most organized religions, excepting a few
wondrous ones.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> They occasionally invite me to talk to their youth
> classes about my religion,
> the Baha'i Faith.

Thanks Pam. That is cool that your sister and Mom are
so close to you, in a spiritual sense, too.

I don't understand Baha'i Faith. There is ANOTHER
example of the Big Gaps in MY learning. Could you
explain it a little, perhaps off list, if it is too
off-topic or personal. I've done some reading, but
reading doesn't always "do it", in a spiritual sense.

Thanks, Sharon of the Swamp

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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/10/02 10:15:46 AM, bearspawprint@... writes:

<< It just seems wrong to
me that ANY religion, or spiritual teaching, should
have EVER had as part of its teachings that some
people's genetic qualities are to be treated badly and
others rewarded. >>

Well the there goes the Old Testament, right out the window. <g>

And all those cool dirty stories with it!

Here's another real-life Emperor's New Clothes situation: How many Baptists
who say "I never expose my children to sex and violence" have given them
Bibles, when they were baptized, or at some other important moment, and in
that Bible is a schedule by which the whole Bible can be read in one year.
And the parents will claim to have done that (Yes, I've read the Bible cover
to cover) and they will encourage the kids to read their Bibles. Yet when
faced with a story of someone having sex with his daughter or whatever, they
will get all red-faced and say "That's a blasphemous lie!" and when shown the
verse, they'll backpedal with "Well of course, God is trying to show us a
lesson there we're not quite ready to understand," or "It's not to be taken
literally." (EEEEEP and a gigantic EEEK on that one--but the "Bible
Literalists" are the first to say "metaphor" when it's something they don't
get or are shocked to find, OR to say "That was the OLD covenant with the
Jews, we only care about the NEW covenant with Jesus." Half an hour later
they're going to be saying homosexuality is sin and to fail to physically
discipline children is a sin, and they get those "literal truths" from the
Old Testament.

Remember those disclosing tablets in health classes sometimes, where you chew
them and all the plaque on your teeth shows up red?

It would be *SO* cool to apply that dye to all the Southern Baptists in the
world and have those who have lied about reading the Bible show up red in
proportion to the parts they have not even skimmed.


OH NO.... I got on religion again.
Sorry.

Sandra