parental pressure? (I don't know the original subject line, sorry)
[email protected]
I'm just going to ask questions to expand topics, and share personal
stories--it's not criticism of writers or families at all!
In a message dated 4/22/02 11:01:46 AM, lovehome@... writes:
<< We changed instructors at times and added or subtracted from their
commitment levels as well, but they would not be able to play now for their
own enjoyment or for performance if I hadn't pushed a little. >>
Was it something they really wanted?
There are degrees of everything. If they just vaguely said they were tired
of it, I'd press my kids a LITTLE, to remind them of the good days (moments,
whatever) of whatever they were wanting to drop out of. But if there were
tears and SERIOUS requests to quit, I wouldn't force them.
Music has traditionally been a part of public school. I'm sorry that's on
the wane, but it is. In the early 20th century, music reading and sight
singing were common classroom activities in the early grades.
But looking back at those who learned music just because they were young and
others thought they should learn it, how many never touched the instrument
again after they were out of school?
And of those who learned an instrument on their own, out of personal
enthusiasm, are professional musicians, or regularly-playing amateurs?
<<Assuming that your kids will suddenly discover and teach themselves all
they need to know at 16 to be successful in college is risky IMO. Big dreams
require some planning. Being highly skilled demands discipline. >>
What is "all they need to know"? There were things I didn't know when I went
to college, but I graduated in four straight years without a break. I didn't
know, for example, what "three credit hours" meant. Not a clue. I had no
idea what "anthropology" was. I had never heard of some of the things there.
I had never seen a Shakespeare play, I had only seen the 1968 Romeo and
Juliet which had come out a few years before. When I took a Shakespeare
class, I was LOST, totally.
I got good grades in high school, took extra classes, graduated early, but I
didn't know all I needed to know.
There are a hundred things or more my children know now that I didn't know
when I went to college at 17. And none of them are 16 yet.
There are some things my kids don't know that I did know when I was their age.
<<Success in college or having any job requires the ability to schedule your
time and being able to show up to do work even when you don't feel like it.>>
How do people learn to schedule time and show up and work?
I don't think it's by having their moms wake them up every day just for
practice.
I don't think it comes from dads saying "You have to get up at 7:00 on
Saturday and help me in the garden because someday you'll have a job and..."
They didn't apply for that job!
When Kirby wanted to watch and record all the Pokemon TV shows when he was
ten or so, he set his own alarm, got the tapes in, and marked them. He still
has all those tapes at 15. I didn't tell him to do that.
When he was offered a job at 14, he already knew well how to use an alarm
clock. I still help him out, but way more often than not when I come to make
sure he's awake, he's already up and getting in the shower.
If a person wants to take a class, he or she will set an alarm and get there.
The more they want to take it, the more likely they'll arrange their lives
around it.
<<The computer gamer of today may want to be the engineer of tomorrow. He
will need to know long division. >>
If he can divide in his head, learning the format of a long division problem
school-style won't take but a few moments to get.
<<Some of our kids will be the veterinarians of tomorrow. They will love
making sick animals well--they will need lots of science courses. The>>
They will need to know lots of science. That doesn't have to come from
courses. If they're already confident and conversant about real-world
scientific knowledge, success in a college course doesn't have the
pre-requisite of prior success in a lower-level course.
<<Some of our kids, I'm convinced, won't need college or any advanced
planning and can make a great life living in the moment always. Some will
want law school or to be ballerinas.>>
The best preparation for law school is the ability to read critically, and to
see different aspects. One of my boys' best skills which would transfer
directly to law is their amazing ability to read and understand the rules of
complex games. The booklets for some of their CCGs (collectible card games,
like Legend of Five Rings, Seventh Sea, etc) run 60 pages and are as
complicated as any contract! And we have friends who have gone through law
school while visiting here monthly or more, and the kids have always heard
stories from them.
In college, some kids take political science as a preparation for law, but
English majors and history majors probably come better prepared in general
for what Law requires. And the preparation to understand English and history
is right up unschoolers' boulevards! (Unschoolers so rarely experience
alleys in their lives...)
Sandra
stories--it's not criticism of writers or families at all!
In a message dated 4/22/02 11:01:46 AM, lovehome@... writes:
<< We changed instructors at times and added or subtracted from their
commitment levels as well, but they would not be able to play now for their
own enjoyment or for performance if I hadn't pushed a little. >>
Was it something they really wanted?
There are degrees of everything. If they just vaguely said they were tired
of it, I'd press my kids a LITTLE, to remind them of the good days (moments,
whatever) of whatever they were wanting to drop out of. But if there were
tears and SERIOUS requests to quit, I wouldn't force them.
Music has traditionally been a part of public school. I'm sorry that's on
the wane, but it is. In the early 20th century, music reading and sight
singing were common classroom activities in the early grades.
But looking back at those who learned music just because they were young and
others thought they should learn it, how many never touched the instrument
again after they were out of school?
And of those who learned an instrument on their own, out of personal
enthusiasm, are professional musicians, or regularly-playing amateurs?
<<Assuming that your kids will suddenly discover and teach themselves all
they need to know at 16 to be successful in college is risky IMO. Big dreams
require some planning. Being highly skilled demands discipline. >>
What is "all they need to know"? There were things I didn't know when I went
to college, but I graduated in four straight years without a break. I didn't
know, for example, what "three credit hours" meant. Not a clue. I had no
idea what "anthropology" was. I had never heard of some of the things there.
I had never seen a Shakespeare play, I had only seen the 1968 Romeo and
Juliet which had come out a few years before. When I took a Shakespeare
class, I was LOST, totally.
I got good grades in high school, took extra classes, graduated early, but I
didn't know all I needed to know.
There are a hundred things or more my children know now that I didn't know
when I went to college at 17. And none of them are 16 yet.
There are some things my kids don't know that I did know when I was their age.
<<Success in college or having any job requires the ability to schedule your
time and being able to show up to do work even when you don't feel like it.>>
How do people learn to schedule time and show up and work?
I don't think it's by having their moms wake them up every day just for
practice.
I don't think it comes from dads saying "You have to get up at 7:00 on
Saturday and help me in the garden because someday you'll have a job and..."
They didn't apply for that job!
When Kirby wanted to watch and record all the Pokemon TV shows when he was
ten or so, he set his own alarm, got the tapes in, and marked them. He still
has all those tapes at 15. I didn't tell him to do that.
When he was offered a job at 14, he already knew well how to use an alarm
clock. I still help him out, but way more often than not when I come to make
sure he's awake, he's already up and getting in the shower.
If a person wants to take a class, he or she will set an alarm and get there.
The more they want to take it, the more likely they'll arrange their lives
around it.
<<The computer gamer of today may want to be the engineer of tomorrow. He
will need to know long division. >>
If he can divide in his head, learning the format of a long division problem
school-style won't take but a few moments to get.
<<Some of our kids will be the veterinarians of tomorrow. They will love
making sick animals well--they will need lots of science courses. The>>
They will need to know lots of science. That doesn't have to come from
courses. If they're already confident and conversant about real-world
scientific knowledge, success in a college course doesn't have the
pre-requisite of prior success in a lower-level course.
<<Some of our kids, I'm convinced, won't need college or any advanced
planning and can make a great life living in the moment always. Some will
want law school or to be ballerinas.>>
The best preparation for law school is the ability to read critically, and to
see different aspects. One of my boys' best skills which would transfer
directly to law is their amazing ability to read and understand the rules of
complex games. The booklets for some of their CCGs (collectible card games,
like Legend of Five Rings, Seventh Sea, etc) run 60 pages and are as
complicated as any contract! And we have friends who have gone through law
school while visiting here monthly or more, and the kids have always heard
stories from them.
In college, some kids take political science as a preparation for law, but
English majors and history majors probably come better prepared in general
for what Law requires. And the preparation to understand English and history
is right up unschoolers' boulevards! (Unschoolers so rarely experience
alleys in their lives...)
Sandra
[email protected]
<<The best preparation for law school is the ability to read critically,
and to
see different aspects. One of my boys' best skills which would transfer
directly to law is their amazing ability to read and understand the rules
of
complex games. The booklets for some of their CCGs (collectible card
games,
like Legend of Five Rings, Seventh Sea, etc) run 60 pages and are as
complicated as any contract! And we have friends who have gone through
law
school while visiting here monthly or more, and the kids have always
heard
stories from them.>>
Speaking from personal experience, my biggest obstacles in learning have
been the blocks created by being forced to attempt them in ps. Lanora
(11) encounters college reading material and has no fear, it's a lark for
her. She's free of the baggage created by having stuff she wasn't ready
for stuffed down her throat and it all flows into the stream she's
already in. Consequently she is able to grasp scientific and
mathematical ideas that still make my muscles tense.
Kris
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
and to
see different aspects. One of my boys' best skills which would transfer
directly to law is their amazing ability to read and understand the rules
of
complex games. The booklets for some of their CCGs (collectible card
games,
like Legend of Five Rings, Seventh Sea, etc) run 60 pages and are as
complicated as any contract! And we have friends who have gone through
law
school while visiting here monthly or more, and the kids have always
heard
stories from them.>>
Speaking from personal experience, my biggest obstacles in learning have
been the blocks created by being forced to attempt them in ps. Lanora
(11) encounters college reading material and has no fear, it's a lark for
her. She's free of the baggage created by having stuff she wasn't ready
for stuffed down her throat and it all flows into the stream she's
already in. Consequently she is able to grasp scientific and
mathematical ideas that still make my muscles tense.
Kris
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.