Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304
KT
>That's IT! Thanks Jocelyn! :)
>
>Her name is Donna Nichols-White. I did a quick google on her, and found
>this:
>
Tuck
KT
>She's in St. Louis. But I'm not sure what you're getting at. She's
>
>
>I talked to someone for a long time and for various reasons it didn't seem to
>me to be a useful thing for unschoolers. Perhaps it involves my prejudice
>against myopic New Yorkers; maybe not.
>
simply writing an article about diversity in the homeschooling
community, as far as I can understand.
Tuck
Jocelyn Vilter
Wellll... I went back later to check the links on her page and none of them
seem to working at the moment. Don't quite know what that means.
joc
seem to working at the moment. Don't quite know what that means.
joc
> From: KT <Tuck@...>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:35:18 -0600
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304
>
>>
>>
>> Her name is Donna Nichols-White. I did a quick google on her, and found
>> this:
>>
>
> That's IT! Thanks Jocelyn! :)
>
> Tuck
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
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>
>
Fetteroll
on 4/6/02 3:39 PM, Jocelyn Vilter at JVilter@... wrote:
Joyce
> Wellll... I went back later to check the links on her page and none of themAs far as I know, they haven't worked for ages.
> seem to working at the moment. Don't quite know what that means.
Joyce
[email protected]
Ah Nancy,
You name your pets as I have done....
I had a Parakeet named Gandalf in days of yore....
A rat named Arwen? And Legolas? I LOVE it!! An elvish sort of rat.....
We usually found Fantasy related names from various books, thanks to my Moms
influence! That's cool.
And thanks for all the Rat info. We have a 10 gallon tank, but the more I
look at it the more I'm thinking of getting a big rubbermaid bin. Aspen
shavings eh? I'll have to get a book and all. I think we'll start looking
around soon.
It would definitely get held a lot around here.
But two females I wouldn't mind either...we'll see.
I do NOT fit they typical unschool family on the pet issue I guess. I really
love having animals around, but I love to travel also and it's difficult to
find caregivers in your absence.
Also, we have allergic people in the household, so we have to be choosy.
We've gone for the temporary pet things in recent years.....hatching
butterflies and preying mantises, capturing insects outside, watching snakes.
That,. and the animals that always seem to find me for rescuing, keeps me
sane in a non-pet household.
We've only owned a Tarantula in the last four years and she died while
moulting.
Poor Rosie.
Ren
You name your pets as I have done....
I had a Parakeet named Gandalf in days of yore....
A rat named Arwen? And Legolas? I LOVE it!! An elvish sort of rat.....
We usually found Fantasy related names from various books, thanks to my Moms
influence! That's cool.
And thanks for all the Rat info. We have a 10 gallon tank, but the more I
look at it the more I'm thinking of getting a big rubbermaid bin. Aspen
shavings eh? I'll have to get a book and all. I think we'll start looking
around soon.
It would definitely get held a lot around here.
But two females I wouldn't mind either...we'll see.
I do NOT fit they typical unschool family on the pet issue I guess. I really
love having animals around, but I love to travel also and it's difficult to
find caregivers in your absence.
Also, we have allergic people in the household, so we have to be choosy.
We've gone for the temporary pet things in recent years.....hatching
butterflies and preying mantises, capturing insects outside, watching snakes.
That,. and the animals that always seem to find me for rescuing, keeps me
sane in a non-pet household.
We've only owned a Tarantula in the last four years and she died while
moulting.
Poor Rosie.
Ren
Tia Leschke
>If you can ever get hold of some stickbugs, they make pretty neat
>Also, we have allergic people in the household, so we have to be choosy.
>We've gone for the temporary pet things in recent years.....hatching
>butterflies and preying mantises, capturing insects outside, watching snakes.
>That,. and the animals that always seem to find me for rescuing, keeps me
>sane in a non-pet household.
pets. When they hatch, or at least when you can first see them, they're
maybe a quarter of an inch long. We kept them in a gallon jar with some
water and raspberry or blackberry leaves. They grew to be maybe 4 inches
long. Where I live, they wouldn't be able to survive the winter, so I
didn't worry too much if they got loose. You'd have to think carefully
about that if you live where it doesn't freeze, unless they are native in
your area. I can't offer any ideas on where to get them. They were passed
around our local homeschooling community when anyone had babies to get rid of.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Jocelyn Vilter
Ah, ok. I know she's still around though, and speaking at conferences and
such. I think she was at the HSC conference last year, unless I've gone
round the bend.
Jocelyn
such. I think she was at the HSC conference last year, unless I've gone
round the bend.
Jocelyn
> From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 18:20:53 -0500
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304
>
> on 4/6/02 3:39 PM, Jocelyn Vilter at JVilter@... wrote:
>
>> Wellll... I went back later to check the links on her page and none of them
>> seem to working at the moment. Don't quite know what that means.
>
> As far as I know, they haven't worked for ages.
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Nancy Wooton
on 4/6/02 8:02 PM, starsuncloud@... at starsuncloud@... wrote:
culture from the time in which we acquire them. I had an Airedale named
Jonathan (Livingston Airedale, of course!).
Legolas is a type called a dumbo, for its even larger large ears (he's
calico adorable, btw).
We aren't consistent in naming from novels, though. Dd named her cat Violet
and her first two rats Lucy and Cheryl, for no other reason than she liked
the names; her second pair of rats were Isabelle (Izzy) and Chloe, after
characters in "Disaster Blasters." (Chloe is the surviving cinnamon blue.)
Sparky the English Shepherd was named for Charles Schulz, the first name we
could agree on in a hurry -- "Bubba" just had to go! I wanted to call him
Johnny Cash, but the kids vetoed me.
and a fake plant for a Whomping Willow. The plecostomos was rechristend
"Hagrid," the cory catfish "Neville Along the Bottom," the depressed single
white tetra "Moaning Myrtle," and we have gone through a succession of
various species of schooling fish, 3 at a time, named Harry, Ron and
Hermione, the most recent of which were added last week, but are now down to
one. I may have to give up on the Quidditch team after all.
The snake is Salazar Slytherin.
The gecko is Tony Gecko, after Padres outfielder Tony Gwynn.
with a snake in the house, I'm not sure she'd be inclined :-)
sticky-footed kinds, do not require the lighting set-up of most lizards, and
eat mealworms which you keep in the fridge (hey, I have dead mice in my
freezer, so what's a worm or two in the butter compartment?). Your 10-gal.
aquarium would be just fine; be sure to get the kind of heater that sticks
onto the bottom (that's your biggest expense since you already have a tank).
You wouldn't even need a screen top if you don't have a cat who might jump
in and eat the little guy; they can't climb out. If you feed him crickets,
though, you'd need a top <g>
There are hypoallergenic cats, rats and dogs, too, but they tend to be
hairless. ;-)
Nancy with TMI <g>
> Ah Nancy,Our parkeet is Zazu... I'm afraid our pets' names sometimes reflect popular
> You name your pets as I have done....
> I had a Parakeet named Gandalf in days of yore....
culture from the time in which we acquire them. I had an Airedale named
Jonathan (Livingston Airedale, of course!).
> A rat named Arwen? And Legolas? I LOVE it!! An elvish sort of rat.....Mice. The mice are getting elvish names; they have such large ears.
Legolas is a type called a dumbo, for its even larger large ears (he's
calico adorable, btw).
We aren't consistent in naming from novels, though. Dd named her cat Violet
and her first two rats Lucy and Cheryl, for no other reason than she liked
the names; her second pair of rats were Isabelle (Izzy) and Chloe, after
characters in "Disaster Blasters." (Chloe is the surviving cinnamon blue.)
Sparky the English Shepherd was named for Charles Schulz, the first name we
could agree on in a hurry -- "Bubba" just had to go! I wanted to call him
Johnny Cash, but the kids vetoed me.
> We usually found Fantasy related names from various books, thanks to my MomsThe aquarium was redone to represent Hogwarts Academy, with a plastic castle
> influence! That's cool.
>
and a fake plant for a Whomping Willow. The plecostomos was rechristend
"Hagrid," the cory catfish "Neville Along the Bottom," the depressed single
white tetra "Moaning Myrtle," and we have gone through a succession of
various species of schooling fish, 3 at a time, named Harry, Ron and
Hermione, the most recent of which were added last week, but are now down to
one. I may have to give up on the Quidditch team after all.
The snake is Salazar Slytherin.
The gecko is Tony Gecko, after Padres outfielder Tony Gwynn.
> And thanks for all the Rat info. We have a 10 gallon tank, but the more IThis is very true. I used to be able to count on my mom to dogsit, but now
> look at it the more I'm thinking of getting a big rubbermaid bin. Aspen
> shavings eh? I'll have to get a book and all. I think we'll start looking
> around soon.
> It would definitely get held a lot around here.
> But two females I wouldn't mind either...we'll see.
> I do NOT fit they typical unschool family on the pet issue I guess. I really
> love having animals around, but I love to travel also and it's difficult to
> find caregivers in your absence.
with a snake in the house, I'm not sure she'd be inclined :-)
> Also, we have allergic people in the household, so we have to be choosy.Try a leopard gecko. They like to be held, are not fast like the
> We've gone for the temporary pet things in recent years.....hatching
> butterflies and preying mantises, capturing insects outside, watching snakes.
> That,. and the animals that always seem to find me for rescuing, keeps me
> sane in a non-pet household.
> We've only owned a Tarantula in the last four years and she died while
> moulting.
> Poor Rosie.
sticky-footed kinds, do not require the lighting set-up of most lizards, and
eat mealworms which you keep in the fridge (hey, I have dead mice in my
freezer, so what's a worm or two in the butter compartment?). Your 10-gal.
aquarium would be just fine; be sure to get the kind of heater that sticks
onto the bottom (that's your biggest expense since you already have a tank).
You wouldn't even need a screen top if you don't have a cat who might jump
in and eat the little guy; they can't climb out. If you feed him crickets,
though, you'd need a top <g>
There are hypoallergenic cats, rats and dogs, too, but they tend to be
hairless. ;-)
Nancy with TMI <g>
Jocelyn Vilter
> From: Nancy Wooton <ikonstitcher@...>Does it count that for several years, Matthew had a (toy) stuffed Gecko
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 13:30:20 -0700
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304
>
> The gecko is Tony Gecko, after Padres outfielder Tony Gwynn.
named "Art"?
Jocelyn
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/6/02 2:39:08 PM, Tuck@... writes:
<< She's in St. Louis. But I'm not sure what you're getting at. She's
simply writing an article about diversity in the homeschooling
community, as far as I can understand. >>
Different person then. There's a website and magazine, and they're marketing
their program to teachers. I think there's a free magazine for schools but
other things can be obtained in addition. It's possible it's not the same
outfit. I returned a call which is why I knew I was talking to someone in
New York. We discussed a long time the differences between the in-school
cultural experiences she was seeing "everywhere" and the differences in
realities in places she admitted she'd never been.
Sandra
<< She's in St. Louis. But I'm not sure what you're getting at. She's
simply writing an article about diversity in the homeschooling
community, as far as I can understand. >>
Different person then. There's a website and magazine, and they're marketing
their program to teachers. I think there's a free magazine for schools but
other things can be obtained in addition. It's possible it's not the same
outfit. I returned a call which is why I knew I was talking to someone in
New York. We discussed a long time the differences between the in-school
cultural experiences she was seeing "everywhere" and the differences in
realities in places she admitted she'd never been.
Sandra
Sharon Rudd
Roy has been asking for rats, or mice, or gerbils, or
guine pigs lately. He has constructed several mazes
in anticipation of being granted this wish. he Which
of these are the easiest? I'm sorta ODed on critters.
Cedar shavings don't work? What about shredded
newspaper or other paper? We have a paper shredder.
Copy paper tends to have sharp edges, but things like
my Hamilton Bookseller flyers are newsprint. OK for
worms......Where will I put them? They can't be on the
porch, the cats have access, I loath the smell of
mice, so I prefer them not in the house, but I guess I
may just have to hold my breath :-) Glad this
discussion is going on just now, when I needed to
learn a little more up-to-date info. My older boys
had mice, and gerbils. They were a bother! But I did
learn a lot about rodent habits....however we lived in
a larger house at that time, this is a wobbly-box!!
LOTS of OUTdoor space!!! And the older boys had each
other to express enthusiasm with...Roy only has
me....and I am squimish with mice....though I can and
have faked it.....oooo! Well, maybe I can fake it,
again. Maybe.
Sharon of the Swamp
--- starsuncloud@... wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
guine pigs lately. He has constructed several mazes
in anticipation of being granted this wish. he Which
of these are the easiest? I'm sorta ODed on critters.
Cedar shavings don't work? What about shredded
newspaper or other paper? We have a paper shredder.
Copy paper tends to have sharp edges, but things like
my Hamilton Bookseller flyers are newsprint. OK for
worms......Where will I put them? They can't be on the
porch, the cats have access, I loath the smell of
mice, so I prefer them not in the house, but I guess I
may just have to hold my breath :-) Glad this
discussion is going on just now, when I needed to
learn a little more up-to-date info. My older boys
had mice, and gerbils. They were a bother! But I did
learn a lot about rodent habits....however we lived in
a larger house at that time, this is a wobbly-box!!
LOTS of OUTdoor space!!! And the older boys had each
other to express enthusiasm with...Roy only has
me....and I am squimish with mice....though I can and
have faked it.....oooo! Well, maybe I can fake it,
again. Maybe.
Sharon of the Swamp
--- starsuncloud@... wrote:
>..........................................
> And thanks for all the Rat info. We have a 10 gallon
> tank, but the more I
> look at it the more I'm thinking of getting a big
> rubbermaid bin. Aspen
> shavings eh? I'll have to get a book and all. I
> think we'll start looking
> around soon.
> It would definitely get held a lot around here.
> But two females I wouldn't mind either...we'll see.
> I do NOT fit they typical unschool family on the pet
> issue I guess. I really
> love having animals around, but I love to travel
> also and it's difficult to
> find caregivers in your absence.
> Ren__________________________________________________
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
[email protected]
On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Sharon Rudd
<bearspawprint@...> writes:
and really don't have much personality, guinea pigs are bigger and sort
of dull (which also makes them a great pet for preschoolers, my sister
once forgot a guinea pig on the sofa and when we asked her hours later
she rushed back and the guinea hadn't moved an inch), and gerbils can be
interesting but are also awfully jumpy, at least compared to a rat. Rats
are the smartest, most easily tamed, and friendliest rodents - and I've
owned all of the above plus hamsters, as well as at least 7 or 8 rats.
We've always kept rodents and cats in the same room, with tight-fitting
lids on the rodent cages. Granted, our cats are sort of slow and stupid,
but they have been interested in the various rodents, especially the
mice... but we've always had cages big enough that they can't be pushed
around by cats, and the cats generally give up, although they still like
to watch..
Dar, going to bed..
<bearspawprint@...> writes:
> Roy has been asking for rats, or mice, or gerbils, orWell, in my opinion and comparatively speaking, mice are kind of stupid
> guine pigs lately. He has constructed several mazes
> in anticipation of being granted this wish. he Which
> of these are the easiest?
and really don't have much personality, guinea pigs are bigger and sort
of dull (which also makes them a great pet for preschoolers, my sister
once forgot a guinea pig on the sofa and when we asked her hours later
she rushed back and the guinea hadn't moved an inch), and gerbils can be
interesting but are also awfully jumpy, at least compared to a rat. Rats
are the smartest, most easily tamed, and friendliest rodents - and I've
owned all of the above plus hamsters, as well as at least 7 or 8 rats.
> Where will I put them? They can't be on theMice smell a lot more than rats!
> porch, the cats have access, I loath the smell of
> mice, so I prefer them not in the house, but I guess I
> may just have to hold my breath :-)
We've always kept rodents and cats in the same room, with tight-fitting
lids on the rodent cages. Granted, our cats are sort of slow and stupid,
but they have been interested in the various rodents, especially the
mice... but we've always had cages big enough that they can't be pushed
around by cats, and the cats generally give up, although they still like
to watch..
Dar, going to bed..
Fetteroll
on 4/8/02 1:24 AM, Sharon Rudd at bearspawprint@... wrote:
they must have very high matabolisms because they eat a lot so you can't be
casual about feeding them regularly.
I found the mice to be more work than what they returned. But the cats sure
enjoyed watching them! :-)
We've never had rats but I've only heard good things about them.
Joyce
> rats, or mice, or gerbils, or guine pigsGerbils are fast so are tougher to catch if they get away. And to be so fast
they must have very high matabolisms because they eat a lot so you can't be
casual about feeding them regularly.
I found the mice to be more work than what they returned. But the cats sure
enjoyed watching them! :-)
We've never had rats but I've only heard good things about them.
Joyce
Scott P. Cook
Sharon -
I've owned gerbils, guinea pigs, rats and ferrets, but never mice. I
think there are two issues to consider: which are easiest to care for,
and which make the best pets. My experience has been that rats are the
best pets by a huge margin (though if you were including ferrets in this
discussion, they would be equal to rats, but in a very different way),
but gerbils are by far the easiest to care for. Since gerbils are
desert animals, they don't go through a lot of water. They eat a lot
less that rats or ferrets also, and since they are not carnivores like
rats and ferrets, they're poop doesn't smell as much. A friend of ours
who is very gerbil experienced gave us a great tip - put lots of drier
lint in the tank and let them tunnel, tunnel, tunnel. It makes them
much happier and much more fun to watch. With that said, I will never
own gerbils again. I personally think they were put on the planet to
bite people's children. Since rats eat meat-based foods, they're poop
is wetter and smellier, and they eat and drink a lot more than gerbils,
but they are SO, SO much fun to own. They come to you rather than
running from you, they love to snuggle in your hair, they come when
called much of the time, they kiss (I hear some of you saying ewwww!)
:), and you can train them. It's like having a tiny dog in a cage!! I
found guinea pigs to be more trouble than gerbils and not near as
rewarding as rats. Ferrets are awesome, but lots of work and
long-lived. I think rats are winning in your poll!
Laurel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Rudd [mailto:bearspawprint@...]
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 1:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Roy has been asking for rats, or mice, or gerbils, or
guine pigs lately. He has constructed several mazes
in anticipation of being granted this wish. he Which
of these are the easiest? I'm sorta ODed on critters.
Cedar shavings don't work? What about shredded
newspaper or other paper? We have a paper shredder.
Copy paper tends to have sharp edges, but things like
my Hamilton Bookseller flyers are newsprint. OK for
worms......Where will I put them? They can't be on the
porch, the cats have access, I loath the smell of
mice, so I prefer them not in the house, but I guess I
may just have to hold my breath :-) Glad this
discussion is going on just now, when I needed to
learn a little more up-to-date info. My older boys
had mice, and gerbils. They were a bother! But I did
learn a lot about rodent habits....however we lived in
a larger house at that time, this is a wobbly-box!!
LOTS of OUTdoor space!!! And the older boys had each
other to express enthusiasm with...Roy only has
me....and I am squimish with mice....though I can and
have faked it.....oooo! Well, maybe I can fake it,
again. Maybe.
Sharon of the Swamp
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've owned gerbils, guinea pigs, rats and ferrets, but never mice. I
think there are two issues to consider: which are easiest to care for,
and which make the best pets. My experience has been that rats are the
best pets by a huge margin (though if you were including ferrets in this
discussion, they would be equal to rats, but in a very different way),
but gerbils are by far the easiest to care for. Since gerbils are
desert animals, they don't go through a lot of water. They eat a lot
less that rats or ferrets also, and since they are not carnivores like
rats and ferrets, they're poop doesn't smell as much. A friend of ours
who is very gerbil experienced gave us a great tip - put lots of drier
lint in the tank and let them tunnel, tunnel, tunnel. It makes them
much happier and much more fun to watch. With that said, I will never
own gerbils again. I personally think they were put on the planet to
bite people's children. Since rats eat meat-based foods, they're poop
is wetter and smellier, and they eat and drink a lot more than gerbils,
but they are SO, SO much fun to own. They come to you rather than
running from you, they love to snuggle in your hair, they come when
called much of the time, they kiss (I hear some of you saying ewwww!)
:), and you can train them. It's like having a tiny dog in a cage!! I
found guinea pigs to be more trouble than gerbils and not near as
rewarding as rats. Ferrets are awesome, but lots of work and
long-lived. I think rats are winning in your poll!
Laurel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Rudd [mailto:bearspawprint@...]
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 1:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Roy has been asking for rats, or mice, or gerbils, or
guine pigs lately. He has constructed several mazes
in anticipation of being granted this wish. he Which
of these are the easiest? I'm sorta ODed on critters.
Cedar shavings don't work? What about shredded
newspaper or other paper? We have a paper shredder.
Copy paper tends to have sharp edges, but things like
my Hamilton Bookseller flyers are newsprint. OK for
worms......Where will I put them? They can't be on the
porch, the cats have access, I loath the smell of
mice, so I prefer them not in the house, but I guess I
may just have to hold my breath :-) Glad this
discussion is going on just now, when I needed to
learn a little more up-to-date info. My older boys
had mice, and gerbils. They were a bother! But I did
learn a lot about rodent habits....however we lived in
a larger house at that time, this is a wobbly-box!!
LOTS of OUTdoor space!!! And the older boys had each
other to express enthusiasm with...Roy only has
me....and I am squimish with mice....though I can and
have faked it.....oooo! Well, maybe I can fake it,
again. Maybe.
Sharon of the Swamp
--- starsuncloud@... wrote:
>..........................................
> And thanks for all the Rat info. We have a 10 gallon
> tank, but the more I
> look at it the more I'm thinking of getting a big
> rubbermaid bin. Aspen
> shavings eh? I'll have to get a book and all. I
> think we'll start looking
> around soon.
> It would definitely get held a lot around here.
> But two females I wouldn't mind either...we'll see.
> I do NOT fit they typical unschool family on the pet
> issue I guess. I really
> love having animals around, but I love to travel
> also and it's difficult to
> find caregivers in your absence.
> Ren__________________________________________________
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
HYPERLINK "http://taxes.yahoo.com/"http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
on 4/8/02 11:11 AM, Scott P. Cook at scottcook@... wrote:
should be aware that they are not permitted as pets here; I've never even
seen one! They are, after all, kangaroo rats, an agricultural pest.
Nancy of Many Critters
--
Abba Xanthias said: A dog is better than I am because it also has love, but
it does not pass judgment.
> With that said, I will neverMy dh raised gerbils when he was a kid, but that was in Ohio. Californians
> own gerbils again. I personally think they were put on the planet to
> bite people's children.
should be aware that they are not permitted as pets here; I've never even
seen one! They are, after all, kangaroo rats, an agricultural pest.
Nancy of Many Critters
--
Abba Xanthias said: A dog is better than I am because it also has love, but
it does not pass judgment.
Pam Hartley
When I was growing up, we snuck them in from Arizona pet shops (no, I'm not
recommending this <g>). The California Dept of Fish & Shame has a lot to
answer for in keeping out reasonable pets like ferrets.
Pam
----------
From: Nancy Wooton <ikonstitcher@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 11:25 AM
should be aware that they are not permitted as pets here; I've never even
seen one! They are, after all, kangaroo rats, an agricultural pest.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
recommending this <g>). The California Dept of Fish & Shame has a lot to
answer for in keeping out reasonable pets like ferrets.
Pam
----------
From: Nancy Wooton <ikonstitcher@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 11:25 AM
> With that said, I will neverMy dh raised gerbils when he was a kid, but that was in Ohio. Californians
> own gerbils again. I personally think they were put on the planet to
> bite people's children.
should be aware that they are not permitted as pets here; I've never even
seen one! They are, after all, kangaroo rats, an agricultural pest.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
on 4/8/02 11:11 AM, Scott P. Cook at scottcook@... wrote:
alfalfa. We don't feed either one meat per se, although we give them dog
biscuits or a few kibbles sometimes. The rest of the diet is parakeet seed,
small animal yogurt treats, fresh fruit and veggies. The doots are firm and
not too smelly, but you oughta see and smell what comes out of the snake!
eeewww!
Nancy
> Since rats eat meat-based foods, they're poopWe feed lab block pellets to both the rat and mouse; I think they're made of
> is wetter and smellier
alfalfa. We don't feed either one meat per se, although we give them dog
biscuits or a few kibbles sometimes. The rest of the diet is parakeet seed,
small animal yogurt treats, fresh fruit and veggies. The doots are firm and
not too smelly, but you oughta see and smell what comes out of the snake!
eeewww!
Nancy
Fetteroll
on 4/8/02 2:51 PM, Nancy Wooton at ikonstitcher@... wrote:
get used to doing it in their cage in a special location?
Joyce
> The doots are firm andDo rats, like mice, poop constantly, leaving a trail behind them? Or do they
> not too smelly
get used to doing it in their cage in a special location?
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/8/2002 3:11:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
fetteroll@... writes:
> Do rats, like mice, poop constantly, leaving a trail behind them? Or do theyfar left corner of the condo. Some of the kids > have put corner ferret boxes
> get used to doing it in their cage in a special location?
>
> They are naturally VERY clean critters. Mine are potty-trained and use the
> in their rats' condos and only have to change THAT weekly. They leave theToday they got lettuce, pasta with a sundried tomato cream sauce, two mini
> rest of the litter throughout the bottom to burrow in. Mine sleep in the
> opposite corner or in the hammock. I keep their food and water on the 2nd
> level.
> carrots, a container of blueberry yoghurt, and a piece of pound cake. They[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> may get a bit of BBQ chicken and some corn on the cob this evening after
> supper.
> They are SOOOO cute!
>
> Kelly
[email protected]
On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 11:25:18 -0700 Nancy Wooton <ikonstitcher@...>
writes:
I'm wrong?
I know ferrets are illegal here, the rationale being that they could get
loose and kill off the endangered wild black-footed ferret. Never mind
that the ferrets kept as pets have been domesticated for hundreds of
years and thousands of generations and most likely couldn't even survive
in the wild.
Funny, though, many petstores sell ferret food, and ferret cages, and
ferrte leashes...
In Arizona, I got a ferret from a rescue organization that takes in
ferrets caught at the California border. My sister had 4 at one time.
They're great... mine was litterbox trained and slept at the foot of my
bed, under the covers in winter.
Dar
writes:
> My dh raised gerbils when he was a kid, but that was in Ohio.Really? I could swear they used to sell them at our pet store, but maybe
> Californians
> should be aware that they are not permitted as pets here; I've never
> even
> seen one! They are, after all, kangaroo rats, an agricultural
> pest.
I'm wrong?
I know ferrets are illegal here, the rationale being that they could get
loose and kill off the endangered wild black-footed ferret. Never mind
that the ferrets kept as pets have been domesticated for hundreds of
years and thousands of generations and most likely couldn't even survive
in the wild.
Funny, though, many petstores sell ferret food, and ferret cages, and
ferrte leashes...
In Arizona, I got a ferret from a rescue organization that takes in
ferrets caught at the California border. My sister had 4 at one time.
They're great... mine was litterbox trained and slept at the foot of my
bed, under the covers in winter.
Dar
Fetteroll
on 4/8/02 8:52 PM, freeform@... at freeform@... wrote:
that can thrive at quite the expense to the environment.
Joyce
> Never mindCats have been domesticated even longer, but there's plenty of feral cats
> that the ferrets kept as pets have been domesticated for hundreds of
> years and thousands of generations and most likely couldn't even survive
> in the wild.
that can thrive at quite the expense to the environment.
Joyce
Pam Hartley
----------
From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 8:15 PM
that can thrive at quite the expense to the environment.
----------
Ferrets can't. Cats are good, domestic ferrets are totally lame. They won't
eat stuff that doesn't come in a container marked "ferret food". It would be
like turning a Pug loose in the forest -- the local deer are in no danger.
;)
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 8:15 PM
> Never mindCats have been domesticated even longer, but there's plenty of feral cats
> that the ferrets kept as pets have been domesticated for hundreds of
> years and thousands of generations and most likely couldn't even survive
> in the wild.
that can thrive at quite the expense to the environment.
----------
Ferrets can't. Cats are good, domestic ferrets are totally lame. They won't
eat stuff that doesn't come in a container marked "ferret food". It would be
like turning a Pug loose in the forest -- the local deer are in no danger.
;)
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 4/9/02 1:08 AM, Pam Hartley at pamhartley@... wrote:
And yet those were similar to the famous last words from the guy who
designed Jurassic Park. And his certainty spawned three movies. ;-)
The Escape of the Domestic Ferrets, part VII
Joyce
> They won'tLOL!
> eat stuff that doesn't come in a container marked "ferret food". It would be
> like turning a Pug loose in the forest -- the local deer are in no danger.
And yet those were similar to the famous last words from the guy who
designed Jurassic Park. And his certainty spawned three movies. ;-)
The Escape of the Domestic Ferrets, part VII
Joyce
Scott P. Cook
This hasn't been my experience with the 8 ferrets I've owned at all.
I've found all of them to be fearless to a fault, and several of them to
be aggressive when need be, both traits one would need to survive in the
wild. I've always been curious what my ferrets would do if allowed
loose with a gerbil or rat, but since I'm afraid that they really would
kill the rodents, I haven't tried it. I have a rescue ferret that
turned out to be deaf after I'd already adopted him, and he was so
brutally aggressive - leaping on my pants leg, climbing up and biting me
in the stomach (I swear I'm not making this up!), that I took him to the
local ferret expert to see if he was too crazy to keep. She figured out
that he was deaf, and helped me deal with his behavioral problems. I
still don't allow strangers to touch him or get my mouth too close to
his mouth (he still likes to latch onto lips), and my husband and oldest
son still don't care to handle him much, but overall he's become a very
decent pet now. My funniest ferret story ever was a couple of years ago
when I still owned my Border Terrier, who came from a line of dogs bred
to go to ground - a dog sport where they work through a tunnel to find a
ferret or rat in a cage and then bark maniacally. He was never the
boldest of Border Terriers, but he loved to stalk the ferrets. One day
the above-mentioned aggressive ferret got loose. I didn't realize this
until I walked through my family room, only to see my terrier slumping
through the room like Eeyore (sp?), with the ferret merrily bouncing
along behind him, grabbing at his hindquarters! It was the saddest,
funniest thing you've ever seen! I told the Border Terrier's breeder
about it and she made me promise never to tell the rest of the Border
Terrier club, for fear of utter humiliation.
Laurel
-----Original Message-----
From: Pam Hartley [mailto:pamhartley@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
----------
From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 8:15 PM
cats
that can thrive at quite the expense to the environment.
----------
Ferrets can't. Cats are good, domestic ferrets are totally lame. They
won't
eat stuff that doesn't come in a container marked "ferret food". It
would be
like turning a Pug loose in the forest -- the local deer are in no
danger.
;)
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've found all of them to be fearless to a fault, and several of them to
be aggressive when need be, both traits one would need to survive in the
wild. I've always been curious what my ferrets would do if allowed
loose with a gerbil or rat, but since I'm afraid that they really would
kill the rodents, I haven't tried it. I have a rescue ferret that
turned out to be deaf after I'd already adopted him, and he was so
brutally aggressive - leaping on my pants leg, climbing up and biting me
in the stomach (I swear I'm not making this up!), that I took him to the
local ferret expert to see if he was too crazy to keep. She figured out
that he was deaf, and helped me deal with his behavioral problems. I
still don't allow strangers to touch him or get my mouth too close to
his mouth (he still likes to latch onto lips), and my husband and oldest
son still don't care to handle him much, but overall he's become a very
decent pet now. My funniest ferret story ever was a couple of years ago
when I still owned my Border Terrier, who came from a line of dogs bred
to go to ground - a dog sport where they work through a tunnel to find a
ferret or rat in a cage and then bark maniacally. He was never the
boldest of Border Terriers, but he loved to stalk the ferrets. One day
the above-mentioned aggressive ferret got loose. I didn't realize this
until I walked through my family room, only to see my terrier slumping
through the room like Eeyore (sp?), with the ferret merrily bouncing
along behind him, grabbing at his hindquarters! It was the saddest,
funniest thing you've ever seen! I told the Border Terrier's breeder
about it and she made me promise never to tell the rest of the Border
Terrier club, for fear of utter humiliation.
Laurel
-----Original Message-----
From: Pam Hartley [mailto:pamhartley@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
----------
From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 8:15 PM
> Never mindsurvive
> that the ferrets kept as pets have been domesticated for hundreds of
> years and thousands of generations and most likely couldn't even
> in the wild.Cats have been domesticated even longer, but there's plenty of feral
cats
that can thrive at quite the expense to the environment.
----------
Ferrets can't. Cats are good, domestic ferrets are totally lame. They
won't
eat stuff that doesn't come in a container marked "ferret food". It
would be
like turning a Pug loose in the forest -- the local deer are in no
danger.
;)
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 08:04:40 -0400 "Scott P. Cook" <scottcook@...>
writes:
once, so I don't think aggreesiveness is the problem. My ferret was
definitely top-pet in a household that included a dog (black lab) and 2
cats, all uncaged. And she ate cat food and raw eggs, since these were
the days before commercially available ferret chow.
Still, I don't think they could survive in the wild, especially in the
desert where the black-footed ferret lives. The ferret that killed the
chinchilla didn't eat it... I know some cats and dogs survive go feral -
our lamest cat was born feral, he is so lucky he found us! - but not
ferrets, according to everything I've ever read on it.
Dar
writes:
> This hasn't been my experience with the 8 ferrets I've owned at all.to
> I've found all of them to be fearless to a fault, and several of them
> be aggressive when need be, both traits one would need to survive inOne of my sister's ferrets escaped his cage and killed her chinchilla
> the wild.
once, so I don't think aggreesiveness is the problem. My ferret was
definitely top-pet in a household that included a dog (black lab) and 2
cats, all uncaged. And she ate cat food and raw eggs, since these were
the days before commercially available ferret chow.
Still, I don't think they could survive in the wild, especially in the
desert where the black-footed ferret lives. The ferret that killed the
chinchilla didn't eat it... I know some cats and dogs survive go feral -
our lamest cat was born feral, he is so lucky he found us! - but not
ferrets, according to everything I've ever read on it.
Dar
Pam Hartley
I never meant they were cowards. The four ferrets we've owned would have
cheerfully bounced up to a Grizzly. ("Hi! We're Lewis! And Clark! We're
ferrets! Got any Yogurt Drops?" We named the second pair Smith and Wesson.)
But domestic ferrets don't establish wild colonies (there may, somewhere, be
an exception or two, but this is a general rule). All of us can think of
examples (as Joyce pointed out) of wild cat colonies. Dogs can go feral,
though not as easily or successfully (usually) as cats, until they breed
through a couple of generations and you get a more competent feral dog. When
ferrets get out, they come back or die.
There are few domestic ferrets who can successfully learn to hunt *wild*
rodents out on their own (many will eventually kill some hapless mouse you
put in the cage, but that's a far cry from hunting).
I used to be involved with the efforts to get ferrets legalized in
California. Part of that was reading reports from 48 other states Fish &
Game Depts. that there were no feral ferret colonies anywhere in the U.S.
that anybody could find. California, in spite of the ban, is one of the most
ferret populous states around. We don't have wild ferret colonies in spite
of the fact that domestic ferrets are Already Here.
Websites of interest:
www.ferretsanonymous.com
www.ferretscentral.org
www.ferret.org
Pam
----------
From: "Scott P. Cook" <scottcook@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Tue, Apr 9, 2002, 5:04 AM
This hasn't been my experience with the 8 ferrets I've owned at all.
I've found all of them to be fearless to a fault
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cheerfully bounced up to a Grizzly. ("Hi! We're Lewis! And Clark! We're
ferrets! Got any Yogurt Drops?" We named the second pair Smith and Wesson.)
But domestic ferrets don't establish wild colonies (there may, somewhere, be
an exception or two, but this is a general rule). All of us can think of
examples (as Joyce pointed out) of wild cat colonies. Dogs can go feral,
though not as easily or successfully (usually) as cats, until they breed
through a couple of generations and you get a more competent feral dog. When
ferrets get out, they come back or die.
There are few domestic ferrets who can successfully learn to hunt *wild*
rodents out on their own (many will eventually kill some hapless mouse you
put in the cage, but that's a far cry from hunting).
I used to be involved with the efforts to get ferrets legalized in
California. Part of that was reading reports from 48 other states Fish &
Game Depts. that there were no feral ferret colonies anywhere in the U.S.
that anybody could find. California, in spite of the ban, is one of the most
ferret populous states around. We don't have wild ferret colonies in spite
of the fact that domestic ferrets are Already Here.
Websites of interest:
www.ferretsanonymous.com
www.ferretscentral.org
www.ferret.org
Pam
----------
From: "Scott P. Cook" <scottcook@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Tue, Apr 9, 2002, 5:04 AM
This hasn't been my experience with the 8 ferrets I've owned at all.
I've found all of them to be fearless to a fault
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
moonmeghan
<<<<--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., Pam Hartley <pamhartley@m...>
wrote:
Since you seem to have a lot of experience with ferrets...
How do ferrets and cats get along (in general, I mean)? We have
two dogs and a cat and I would like to get a ferret, but I'm not
sure how the cat and ferret would react to each other.
Meghan (thinking about becoming an illegal ferret owner in CA).
Naughty me! <g>
wrote:
> I used to be involved with the efforts to get ferrets legalized inPam,
> California.
> Pam>>>>
Since you seem to have a lot of experience with ferrets...
How do ferrets and cats get along (in general, I mean)? We have
two dogs and a cat and I would like to get a ferret, but I'm not
sure how the cat and ferret would react to each other.
Meghan (thinking about becoming an illegal ferret owner in CA).
Naughty me! <g>
Pam Hartley
Our ferrets got along *great* with our cats (they tried to get along great
with our dogs, too, but our dogs were afraid of them <g>). The cats learned
to play with them very well, both species have a similar "pounce" style of
play. You will find that almost nothing intimidates a ferret. I would never
have left them alone together, but there were no problems.
I would not advise ferrets loose with any "prey" animals (rabbits, mice,
rats, guinea pigs, etc.) though ours didn't seem to have any hunting
instincts to speak of, except of course when they were attacking our feet!
(Only as babies and only when we were wearing socks. Like kittens, it just
takes a little time and training until your toes are safe).
If you decide to do anything interesting with ferrets, contact me off line,
I have some advice, one Californian to another. ;)
Pam
----------
From: "moonmeghan" <moonmeghan@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Wed, Apr 10, 2002, 10:41 AM
Since you seem to have a lot of experience with ferrets...
How do ferrets and cats get along (in general, I mean)? We have
two dogs and a cat and I would like to get a ferret, but I'm not
sure how the cat and ferret would react to each other.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with our dogs, too, but our dogs were afraid of them <g>). The cats learned
to play with them very well, both species have a similar "pounce" style of
play. You will find that almost nothing intimidates a ferret. I would never
have left them alone together, but there were no problems.
I would not advise ferrets loose with any "prey" animals (rabbits, mice,
rats, guinea pigs, etc.) though ours didn't seem to have any hunting
instincts to speak of, except of course when they were attacking our feet!
(Only as babies and only when we were wearing socks. Like kittens, it just
takes a little time and training until your toes are safe).
If you decide to do anything interesting with ferrets, contact me off line,
I have some advice, one Californian to another. ;)
Pam
----------
From: "moonmeghan" <moonmeghan@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
Date: Wed, Apr 10, 2002, 10:41 AM
Since you seem to have a lot of experience with ferrets...
How do ferrets and cats get along (in general, I mean)? We have
two dogs and a cat and I would like to get a ferret, but I'm not
sure how the cat and ferret would react to each other.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Scott P. Cook
I know you asked Pam this question, but thought I'd chime in! My cats
and ferrets have always gotten along beautifully. They have either
ignored each other or played together. Generally they've played until
the cats grew up, then stopped. Dogs have been another story. Some of
my dogs have gotten along fine with my ferrets, but one of my Dalmatians
killed one of my ferrets (long story), and I think either of my other
Dalmatians might do the same if given the chance.
Laurel
-----Original Message-----
From: moonmeghan [mailto:moonmeghan@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
<<<<--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., Pam Hartley <pamhartley@m...>
wrote:
Since you seem to have a lot of experience with ferrets...
How do ferrets and cats get along (in general, I mean)? We have
two dogs and a cat and I would like to get a ferret, but I'm not
sure how the cat and ferret would react to each other.
Meghan (thinking about becoming an illegal ferret owner in CA).
Naughty me! <g>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and ferrets have always gotten along beautifully. They have either
ignored each other or played together. Generally they've played until
the cats grew up, then stopped. Dogs have been another story. Some of
my dogs have gotten along fine with my ferrets, but one of my Dalmatians
killed one of my ferrets (long story), and I think either of my other
Dalmatians might do the same if given the chance.
Laurel
-----Original Message-----
From: moonmeghan [mailto:moonmeghan@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Digest Number 304: pets...mice, rats
<<<<--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., Pam Hartley <pamhartley@m...>
wrote:
> I used to be involved with the efforts to get ferrets legalized inPam,
> California.
> Pam>>>>
Since you seem to have a lot of experience with ferrets...
How do ferrets and cats get along (in general, I mean)? We have
two dogs and a cat and I would like to get a ferret, but I'm not
sure how the cat and ferret would react to each other.
Meghan (thinking about becoming an illegal ferret owner in CA).
Naughty me! <g>
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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