Overrun by Toys
Dicie_B
My husband and I are feeling overrun by toys, my son has so many toys....it can be more than a little embarrasing. I myself am trying to go through a program of simplifying and am trying to downsize the amount of stuff we have. I do not like having a house that you can barely walk through and is cluttered with so much stuff. I am not able to keep up with all the stuff we own though and am worried about my son growing up thinking that it is great or expected to be surrounded by such clutter. He of course being 4 loves having so much and loves having it strewn about him. I've noticed though that the more he has the less he plays with it and more he complains of being bored.
My husband and I have little experience outside standard schooling experiences and conservative authoritative families....so we could use a little help here. Our house is small so it will naturally have every nook and cranny used. We do have a garage where we store and rotate toys. However, it is so full and messy....we can no longer even park our cars, walk or find things in it. My son has recently decided he wants to own Rockenbok (which takes up a large amount of room) so I have initally told him that in order to get it we need to clean up and downsize so we can have room to play with it. He of course says that is fine, but, does not want to get rid of any toys.
I would be most interested in how other unschooling families deal with these situations. Thanks
My husband and I have little experience outside standard schooling experiences and conservative authoritative families....so we could use a little help here. Our house is small so it will naturally have every nook and cranny used. We do have a garage where we store and rotate toys. However, it is so full and messy....we can no longer even park our cars, walk or find things in it. My son has recently decided he wants to own Rockenbok (which takes up a large amount of room) so I have initally told him that in order to get it we need to clean up and downsize so we can have room to play with it. He of course says that is fine, but, does not want to get rid of any toys.
I would be most interested in how other unschooling families deal with these situations. Thanks
sheeboo2
I have a story--
When my daughter was three or four, my husband, in an effort to simplify *his* life, took a few containers of toys from the basement, that our daughter hadn't played with in over a year, to a thrift store.
Noor is seven now and she still asks about the toys. I wouldn't be surprised if she could name every last missing one. His desire to purge "junk," "clutter," damaged the trust she placed in him and I sometimes wonder if it didn't create more desire for things on her part.
I know that it can feel overwhelming, all the stuff, especially if you don't have a lot of storage space or a way to organize. But I'd caution that just because *you* are going through a "plan to simplify and downsize" that doesn't mean it is fair to make your son, who hasn't had a long lifetime of collecting, give up what is important to him. You've felt the whole range of ownership of things for many years. He hasn't.
---I am not able to keep up with all the stuff we own though----
Whose clutter is it? Get rid of your things, that you don't want/need--that will probably create a whole lot of space.
--and am worried about my son growing up thinking that it is great or expected to be surrounded by such clutter.----
Why? Seriously. Look at that feeling--what are you afraid will happen? He's four--what horrible character trait do you think he'll develop by having a sense of abundance? Sit with it for a while.
Did you grow up surrounded by a lot of stuff and clutter? With so many toys that your parents would have been embarrassed? Probably not--and yet look! You've amassed all this stuff over the years, so much that you can't walk through your house comfortably now feeling the desire to "simplify and downsize."
I think a lot of our rampant consumer culture is perpetrated by people who were NOT raised with a sense of abundance. The biggest shoppers I know came from very controlled environments, in terms of behavior and finances. I have a nephew who spent the first five years of life living in a (very organized) school bus while his parents traveled the country planting trees. He wasn't allowed to have any toys that were larger than a shoe box. Today he owns over 100 pairs of sneakers. I'm not kidding.
*If* your son is interested, you could help him cull through his belongings. He may be interested in selling some if he knows he can use the money for new things. Our daughter recently agreed to sell a dollhouse that had never really been used to buy an older/no longer made Mega Blocs set on Ebay.
Another suggestion is to get organized. If you live anywhere near an Ikea, they have simple and inexpensive shelving units that you can customize. We recently bought some new ones, enough for three walls total, and it cost less than $300 (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S69881288). We actually have bare shelves! Something I never thought possible. We put them in our living room and studio, but I imagine they'd be fantastic lining the walls of a garage.
Invest in some plastic totes, preferably see-through. They are cheap, stackable and great for storing toys. I bet you could buy five and they'd hold a TON of his toys. Clean up is super simple when all you have to do is chuck toys into a bin.
----I've noticed though that the more he has the less he plays with it and more he complains of being bored. ----
How have you noticed this? Did he recently not have a lot of toys and played more and now suddenly he has a ton of toys and plays less? Maybe that's what you've really observed...it just sounds like something parents say, but isn't necessarily true. If his toys are hard to get to or find, try to find a way to make them more accessible and more organized.
Something that has helped my husband, who is a very minimalist kind of guy, except for "gear," is to remind him that Noor doesn't spend 30+ hours a week somewhere else--her life happens, for the most part, at home. Her toys/things are the materials she uses to LEARN. Her stuff is very important.
Brie
When my daughter was three or four, my husband, in an effort to simplify *his* life, took a few containers of toys from the basement, that our daughter hadn't played with in over a year, to a thrift store.
Noor is seven now and she still asks about the toys. I wouldn't be surprised if she could name every last missing one. His desire to purge "junk," "clutter," damaged the trust she placed in him and I sometimes wonder if it didn't create more desire for things on her part.
I know that it can feel overwhelming, all the stuff, especially if you don't have a lot of storage space or a way to organize. But I'd caution that just because *you* are going through a "plan to simplify and downsize" that doesn't mean it is fair to make your son, who hasn't had a long lifetime of collecting, give up what is important to him. You've felt the whole range of ownership of things for many years. He hasn't.
---I am not able to keep up with all the stuff we own though----
Whose clutter is it? Get rid of your things, that you don't want/need--that will probably create a whole lot of space.
--and am worried about my son growing up thinking that it is great or expected to be surrounded by such clutter.----
Why? Seriously. Look at that feeling--what are you afraid will happen? He's four--what horrible character trait do you think he'll develop by having a sense of abundance? Sit with it for a while.
Did you grow up surrounded by a lot of stuff and clutter? With so many toys that your parents would have been embarrassed? Probably not--and yet look! You've amassed all this stuff over the years, so much that you can't walk through your house comfortably now feeling the desire to "simplify and downsize."
I think a lot of our rampant consumer culture is perpetrated by people who were NOT raised with a sense of abundance. The biggest shoppers I know came from very controlled environments, in terms of behavior and finances. I have a nephew who spent the first five years of life living in a (very organized) school bus while his parents traveled the country planting trees. He wasn't allowed to have any toys that were larger than a shoe box. Today he owns over 100 pairs of sneakers. I'm not kidding.
*If* your son is interested, you could help him cull through his belongings. He may be interested in selling some if he knows he can use the money for new things. Our daughter recently agreed to sell a dollhouse that had never really been used to buy an older/no longer made Mega Blocs set on Ebay.
Another suggestion is to get organized. If you live anywhere near an Ikea, they have simple and inexpensive shelving units that you can customize. We recently bought some new ones, enough for three walls total, and it cost less than $300 (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S69881288). We actually have bare shelves! Something I never thought possible. We put them in our living room and studio, but I imagine they'd be fantastic lining the walls of a garage.
Invest in some plastic totes, preferably see-through. They are cheap, stackable and great for storing toys. I bet you could buy five and they'd hold a TON of his toys. Clean up is super simple when all you have to do is chuck toys into a bin.
----I've noticed though that the more he has the less he plays with it and more he complains of being bored. ----
How have you noticed this? Did he recently not have a lot of toys and played more and now suddenly he has a ton of toys and plays less? Maybe that's what you've really observed...it just sounds like something parents say, but isn't necessarily true. If his toys are hard to get to or find, try to find a way to make them more accessible and more organized.
Something that has helped my husband, who is a very minimalist kind of guy, except for "gear," is to remind him that Noor doesn't spend 30+ hours a week somewhere else--her life happens, for the most part, at home. Her toys/things are the materials she uses to LEARN. Her stuff is very important.
Brie
k
----I've noticed though that the more he has the less he plays with it
and more he complains of being bored.----
straighten things and put Legos back with Legos, Kinects back with the
other Kinects, toy cars with the others, stuffed toys with others,
etc. I didn't put them away in a cubby unless Karl really hadn't
played with them for more than a couple weeks. Because as soon as I
did, he would ask where I put them, get them back out again and so on.
That was fine, as putting it up served to inspire more play. Like
playing musical chairs. Good thing I got used to his system of
projects pretty easily. Or it could have inspired me to simplify his
toys and make them way less accessible to him.
Being surrounded by toys does not make a person used to clutter. Karl
has taken to sometimes matching toys lying around with their mates. I
didn't even ask him to. Other parents have written in about the
phenomenon of unschooling children voluntarily cleaning unasked. Now
I've witnessed it myself. I'm glad I read it so I could be on the
lookout instead of expecting Karl to develop messy ways. Toys and mess
could have been a contention point between me and Karl, which I
managed to avoid with plenty of forewarning that it's common for kids
to desire a clean space and to make that happen themselves. Really.
I didn't even "have to" teach that.
~Katherine
and more he complains of being bored.----
>>>If his toys are hard to get to or find, try to find a way to make them more accessible and more organized.<<<We left Karl's projects out and about. Once a week (or so) I would
straighten things and put Legos back with Legos, Kinects back with the
other Kinects, toy cars with the others, stuffed toys with others,
etc. I didn't put them away in a cubby unless Karl really hadn't
played with them for more than a couple weeks. Because as soon as I
did, he would ask where I put them, get them back out again and so on.
That was fine, as putting it up served to inspire more play. Like
playing musical chairs. Good thing I got used to his system of
projects pretty easily. Or it could have inspired me to simplify his
toys and make them way less accessible to him.
Being surrounded by toys does not make a person used to clutter. Karl
has taken to sometimes matching toys lying around with their mates. I
didn't even ask him to. Other parents have written in about the
phenomenon of unschooling children voluntarily cleaning unasked. Now
I've witnessed it myself. I'm glad I read it so I could be on the
lookout instead of expecting Karl to develop messy ways. Toys and mess
could have been a contention point between me and Karl, which I
managed to avoid with plenty of forewarning that it's common for kids
to desire a clean space and to make that happen themselves. Really.
I didn't even "have to" teach that.
~Katherine
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
We have lots of toys and I have them on in containers that are transparent, that
way they are easy to see
and stay organized. I also turned out formal living room , the biggest room in
the house, into a play room/
I have made a video about how I have it set up for my kids but I am having
trouble uploading to facebook . I am
going to upload to Youtube and post it here if anyone wants to see.
My kids. specially my son, would be hart broken if I made him give up his toys.
He still talks about the Bob the Builder stuff I gave away when he was 4 ( and
he agreed).
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
way they are easy to see
and stay organized. I also turned out formal living room , the biggest room in
the house, into a play room/
I have made a video about how I have it set up for my kids but I am having
trouble uploading to facebook . I am
going to upload to Youtube and post it here if anyone wants to see.
My kids. specially my son, would be hart broken if I made him give up his toys.
He still talks about the Bob the Builder stuff I gave away when he was 4 ( and
he agreed).
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aldq75
I've given plenty things away by choice and not regretted it for a minute. When we were first married, we combined two apartments into one. I felt pressured to downsize my shoe collection. Ten years later, I still miss two of the pairs I sent to the thrift store.
My teenager occasionally mentions a couple of things that she had as a toddler that were downsized over the years and is still angry at me about a rocking chair that I gave to another child when she grew too big for it. My six year old regularly mentions a couple of toys that we gave away before our last cross-country move. I understand now that those were their things and not mine to give away.
I've found that keeping things organized can renew a person's interest in things. It happens to me in my sewing room, to my son with his Legos and with other toys, as well. We let "clutter" accumulate for a while and then tidy it up when needed, especially when we're having company. Someone else mentioned this, but I have experienced it, too.
Andrea Q
My teenager occasionally mentions a couple of things that she had as a toddler that were downsized over the years and is still angry at me about a rocking chair that I gave to another child when she grew too big for it. My six year old regularly mentions a couple of toys that we gave away before our last cross-country move. I understand now that those were their things and not mine to give away.
I've found that keeping things organized can renew a person's interest in things. It happens to me in my sewing room, to my son with his Legos and with other toys, as well. We let "clutter" accumulate for a while and then tidy it up when needed, especially when we're having company. Someone else mentioned this, but I have experienced it, too.
Andrea Q
k
>>>matching toys lying around with their mates<<<I don't have the heart to correct this very bad syntax. It's too funny.
~Katherine
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 14, 2011, at 8:14 PM, aldq75 wrote:
ugly chair but you could make a fort by inverting the cushions right
on the chair base with little peek holes over the arms. I'm still
pissed 40 years later. Yeah, it's about time I let that one go ;-) But
just another example of some long term side effects.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My teenager occasionally mentions a couple of things that she had asWhen I was 13 my parents got rid of my favorite chair. Yeah it was an
> a toddler that were downsized over the years and is still angry at
> me about a rocking chair that I gave to another child when she grew
> too big for it
ugly chair but you could make a fort by inverting the cushions right
on the chair base with little peek holes over the arms. I'm still
pissed 40 years later. Yeah, it's about time I let that one go ;-) But
just another example of some long term side effects.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Schuelein
I don't over think our stuff. We have a cluttered house, but we are comfy and happy. When my son was smaller, we had enough toys for about 6 kids. When I noticed toys were going un-played with I would ask my son if he was done with them. If the answer was yes, then we donated them or sold them. My son loves donating! He just loves the idea of giving to other kids. Anyway, I would never give away anything without permission from my son. Over time, he naturally downsized as his interests narrowed and matured.
Jennifer
Jennifer
--- In [email protected], "Dicie_B" <dicie_b@...> wrote:
>
> My husband and I are feeling overrun by toys, my son has so many toys....it can be more than a little embarrasing. I myself am trying to go through a program of simplifying and am trying to downsize the amount of stuff we have. I do not like having a house that you can barely walk through and is cluttered with so much stuff. I am not able to keep up with all the stuff we own though and am worried about my son growing up thinking that it is great or expected to be surrounded by such clutter. He of course being 4 loves having so much and loves having it strewn about him. I've noticed though that the more he has the less he plays with it and more he complains of being bored.
>
> My husband and I have little experience outside standard schooling experiences and conservative authoritative families....so we could use a little help here. Our house is small so it will naturally have every nook and cranny used. We do have a garage where we store and rotate toys. However, it is so full and messy....we can no longer even park our cars, walk or find things in it. My son has recently decided he wants to own Rockenbok (which takes up a large amount of room) so I have initally told him that in order to get it we need to clean up and downsize so we can have room to play with it. He of course says that is fine, but, does not want to get rid of any toys.
>
> I would be most interested in how other unschooling families deal with these situations. Thanks
>
Dicie_B
Thank you for your wonderful responses, it really helps me to have others experiences to draw on. While reading these responses I came up with another question which I'll get to at the end.
I'm fairly organized already. Our garage is at it maximum capacity for storage shelving like the Gorm or the costco industrial ones. We have about 10 shelving units. We also have already filled 30 of those clear 60 quart containers and the rest is stuffed into boxes and piled elsewhere. Quite frankly, I now believe my husband and I have an overconsuming problem and have not set the example for our son that I wanted to. Don't get me wrong, I want him to have lots of toys to play with. But, due to money and space we can't do it all and I have not done a good job representing consuming balance to my son (not exactly sure how to do it myself, but, I am working on it).
The inside of the house has several shelves and cubby areas for his toys. When I do stop to think about it, he probably does play with everything over time. I was just jumping to the conclusion that he didn't play as much because at Christmas when Santa brought him his first Bruder truck, he played with it non-stop and seemed so excited. Then the rest of the gifts poured in and now he has 13 bruder trucks and doesn't play with them as much as he did his first one. And 13 Bruder trucks was only the tip of the iceberg for holiday/birthday gift (Christmas and his birthday happen 4 days apart).
Things do have a tendancy to pile up and then it is hard to play with anything let alone walk through our small house. I'm currently trying to downsize my things to find more places for the toys that we have inside so that they don't end up so heaped. It is difficult and very overwhelming for me right now...so the process moves slow.
I can understand the reasons for not getting rid of his existing toys that he wants. For the future though, we are bursting at the seams here. We really have A LOT of things and toys. Most of it I know is our doing. And I have every intention of working to change my own buying habits, but we are already in space/versus posession trouble.
Finally I'll get to my question :)
My son however is now very used to buying toys everywhere we go. Is it fair to the child to cut back on the future purchases when he REALLY believes that he wants it?
I appreciate everyone's advice and patience with me as I am trying to make the transition into different ways of being and thinking.
Thank You, Silva
I'm fairly organized already. Our garage is at it maximum capacity for storage shelving like the Gorm or the costco industrial ones. We have about 10 shelving units. We also have already filled 30 of those clear 60 quart containers and the rest is stuffed into boxes and piled elsewhere. Quite frankly, I now believe my husband and I have an overconsuming problem and have not set the example for our son that I wanted to. Don't get me wrong, I want him to have lots of toys to play with. But, due to money and space we can't do it all and I have not done a good job representing consuming balance to my son (not exactly sure how to do it myself, but, I am working on it).
The inside of the house has several shelves and cubby areas for his toys. When I do stop to think about it, he probably does play with everything over time. I was just jumping to the conclusion that he didn't play as much because at Christmas when Santa brought him his first Bruder truck, he played with it non-stop and seemed so excited. Then the rest of the gifts poured in and now he has 13 bruder trucks and doesn't play with them as much as he did his first one. And 13 Bruder trucks was only the tip of the iceberg for holiday/birthday gift (Christmas and his birthday happen 4 days apart).
Things do have a tendancy to pile up and then it is hard to play with anything let alone walk through our small house. I'm currently trying to downsize my things to find more places for the toys that we have inside so that they don't end up so heaped. It is difficult and very overwhelming for me right now...so the process moves slow.
I can understand the reasons for not getting rid of his existing toys that he wants. For the future though, we are bursting at the seams here. We really have A LOT of things and toys. Most of it I know is our doing. And I have every intention of working to change my own buying habits, but we are already in space/versus posession trouble.
Finally I'll get to my question :)
My son however is now very used to buying toys everywhere we go. Is it fair to the child to cut back on the future purchases when he REALLY believes that he wants it?
I appreciate everyone's advice and patience with me as I am trying to make the transition into different ways of being and thinking.
Thank You, Silva
--- In [email protected], "Dicie_B" <dicie_b@...> wrote:
>
> My husband and I are feeling overrun by toys, my son has so many toys....it can be more than a little embarrasing. I myself am trying to go through a program of simplifying and am trying to downsize the amount of stuff we have. I do not like having a house that you can barely walk through and is cluttered with so much stuff. I am not able to keep up with all the stuff we own though and am worried about my son growing up thinking that it is great or expected to be surrounded by such clutter. He of course being 4 loves having so much and loves having it strewn about him. I've noticed though that the more he has the less he plays with it and more he complains of being bored.
>
> My husband and I have little experience outside standard schooling experiences and conservative authoritative families....so we could use a little help here. Our house is small so it will naturally have every nook and cranny used. We do have a garage where we store and rotate toys. However, it is so full and messy....we can no longer even park our cars, walk or find things in it. My son has recently decided he wants to own Rockenbok (which takes up a large amount of room) so I have initally told him that in order to get it we need to clean up and downsize so we can have room to play with it. He of course says that is fine, but, does not want to get rid of any toys.
>
> I would be most interested in how other unschooling families deal with these situations. Thanks
>
teresa
--- In [email protected], "sheeboo2" <brmino@...> wrote:
I have a story to share, too. I very recently had a habit of tidying the various toy containers, throwing away things I perceived as no longer fun or useful (an inflatable jousting toy that no longer held air, a cracked-into-two pieces plastic army helmet, a pretend set of headphones with one earpiece missing). I thought that I *had* to do this since my son, 5, also didn't want to get rid of any toys (he has never once given up a toy, either for donation, trade, or passing along to a cousin or friend) and we were running out of places to put things.
But instead, I found that in doing this I unleashed an in-home dumpster diver. My son, convinced that I was going to throw away something that he loved, or loved once and wasn't ready to let go, started going through the recycling containers and trash in each room. He'd sift through piles of dirt in the dustpan (looking for tiny Leggo pieces, beads, etc.). And just a couple of nights ago, he ran out of the house yelling after me as I took the trash to the curb, convinced that he had missed an opportunity to rescue some treasured item that I'd cast aside.
He was clearly disturbed by *my* purging of *his* stuff. He was anxious and frantic. I sure did lose his trust as someone who'd help him take care of the things he liked having around. And whatever I thought the problem was before, it is a problem now, with him feeling (rightly, poor guy!) panicked and protective over twisty ties, dust-bunny clad single socks, and the like.
I'm in the process of getting more and better organized. I really do think that will help. Also, I've been asking about every single thing I find that's he's touched if it's OK to throw outpieces of yarn, sticks and rocks, oddly shaped cardboard scraps, markers that barely have ink in them. I don't know if this will help him trust me again, but I'm hoping.
Also, and this is just a maybe in my mind, but I'm coming to discover that he really truly envisions a purpose for all these household items and toys, or a circumstance in the future in which it might be fun to play with them. It's pretty great, really, to see so much possibility there. I know with shows like the Hoarders and the like, it's easy to pathologize and get nervous about accumulating stuff, but did you see the movie "Wall-E"? Do you remember his little tin-can house with a rotating rack of container after container of cool stuff? Parts and pieces for making things whole and fun.
I can get that about my boy. Heck, I could even use a little of that when I'm looking at my own stuff and feeling weighed down, maniacally wanting to purge and simplify something in my life, settling for stuff because it's easier than unsettled feelings.
Teresa
> Something that has helped my husband, who is a very minimalist kind of guy, except for "gear," is to remind him that Noor doesn't spend 30+ hours a week somewhere else--her life happens, for the most part, at home. Her toys/things are the materials she uses to LEARN. Her stuff is very important.^ This is good stuff.
>
> Brie
I have a story to share, too. I very recently had a habit of tidying the various toy containers, throwing away things I perceived as no longer fun or useful (an inflatable jousting toy that no longer held air, a cracked-into-two pieces plastic army helmet, a pretend set of headphones with one earpiece missing). I thought that I *had* to do this since my son, 5, also didn't want to get rid of any toys (he has never once given up a toy, either for donation, trade, or passing along to a cousin or friend) and we were running out of places to put things.
But instead, I found that in doing this I unleashed an in-home dumpster diver. My son, convinced that I was going to throw away something that he loved, or loved once and wasn't ready to let go, started going through the recycling containers and trash in each room. He'd sift through piles of dirt in the dustpan (looking for tiny Leggo pieces, beads, etc.). And just a couple of nights ago, he ran out of the house yelling after me as I took the trash to the curb, convinced that he had missed an opportunity to rescue some treasured item that I'd cast aside.
He was clearly disturbed by *my* purging of *his* stuff. He was anxious and frantic. I sure did lose his trust as someone who'd help him take care of the things he liked having around. And whatever I thought the problem was before, it is a problem now, with him feeling (rightly, poor guy!) panicked and protective over twisty ties, dust-bunny clad single socks, and the like.
I'm in the process of getting more and better organized. I really do think that will help. Also, I've been asking about every single thing I find that's he's touched if it's OK to throw outpieces of yarn, sticks and rocks, oddly shaped cardboard scraps, markers that barely have ink in them. I don't know if this will help him trust me again, but I'm hoping.
Also, and this is just a maybe in my mind, but I'm coming to discover that he really truly envisions a purpose for all these household items and toys, or a circumstance in the future in which it might be fun to play with them. It's pretty great, really, to see so much possibility there. I know with shows like the Hoarders and the like, it's easy to pathologize and get nervous about accumulating stuff, but did you see the movie "Wall-E"? Do you remember his little tin-can house with a rotating rack of container after container of cool stuff? Parts and pieces for making things whole and fun.
I can get that about my boy. Heck, I could even use a little of that when I'm looking at my own stuff and feeling weighed down, maniacally wanting to purge and simplify something in my life, settling for stuff because it's easier than unsettled feelings.
Teresa
--- In [email protected], "Dicie_B" <dicie_b@...> wrote:
>
> My husband and I are feeling overrun by toys, my son has so many toys....it can be more than a little embarrasing. I myself am trying to go through a program of simplifying and am trying to downsize the amount of stuff we have. I do not like having a house that you can barely walk through and is cluttered with so much stuff. I am not able to keep up with all the stuff we own though and am worried about my son growing up thinking that it is great or expected to be surrounded by such clutter. He of course being 4 loves having so much and loves having it strewn about him. I've noticed though that the more he has the less he plays with it and more he complains of being bored.
>
> My husband and I have little experience outside standard schooling experiences and conservative authoritative families....so we could use a little help here. Our house is small so it will naturally have every nook and cranny used. We do have a garage where we store and rotate toys. However, it is so full and messy....we can no longer even park our cars, walk or find things in it. My son has recently decided he wants to own Rockenbok (which takes up a large amount of room) so I have initally told him that in order to get it we need to clean up and downsize so we can have room to play with it. He of course says that is fine, but, does not want to get rid of any toys.
>
> I would be most interested in how other unschooling families deal with these situations. Thanks
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I was just jumping to the conclusion that he didn't play as much because at Christmas when Santa brought him his first Bruder truck, he played with it non-stop and seemed so excited. Then the rest of the gifts poured in and now he has 13 bruder trucks and doesn't play with them as much as he did his first one. And 13 Bruder trucks was only the tip of the iceberg for holiday/birthday gift (Christmas and his birthday happen 4 days apart). -=-
The ideas in this article might help you see that in a different way:
http://sandradodd.com/t/economics
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The ideas in this article might help you see that in a different way:
http://sandradodd.com/t/economics
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>My son however is now very used to buying toys everywhere we go. Is it fair to the child to cut back on the future purchases when he REALLY believes that he wants it?<<<At least sometimes, don't be in a hurry to leave so soon that
purchasing is one of the few if not the only way to experience
different toys.
I'm glad I heard on one of the unschooling lists to take time in the
store to let the child play as long as they want with the toys or for
the child to hold them and look at them and experience them. Talk
about the toys and the different features and get into experiencing
the toys with your child.
~Katherine
sheeboo2
----But instead, I found that in doing this I unleashed an in-home dumpster diver....<snip>...He was clearly disturbed by *my* purging of *his* stuff. He was anxious and
frantic.----
Yes. That's what happened here too, and FIVE years later, Noor still freaks out when my husband starts to clean.
I have to give him a heap of credit though, Noor doesn't just have a lot of things, she also *generates* a lot of things. She can fill a ream of paper with drawings in six weeks. Clay, foam, pipecleaner, aluminum foil figures.....Her dad lovingly archives it all.
---Also, and this is just a maybe in my mind, but I'm coming to discover that he
really truly envisions a purpose for all these household items and toys, or a
circumstance in the future in which it might be fun to play with them.------
I honestly think that Noor knows, intimately, every last little rock or twig or twist tie or ribbon or cardboard matchbox or broken dragon arm that she has, and on top of that, aside from one prized Pokemon card, she has a pretty good idea where *it* is.
----I know with shows like the Hoarders and the like, it's easy to pathologize and get nervous about accumulating stuff-----
I watched an episode of one of those shows with my MIL. Every person they profiled came from a seriously messed up background/present. Reading about Sandra's daughter Holly choosing a new bed, or one of her son's not taking a loan for a car, Pam's daughter's spending (or lack thereof) in France....keeps me secure that by giving as much as I can, I will only help Noor feel fuller, not more needy.
This thread, and the frantic cleaning we did all day in preparation for a gathering tomorrow, reminded me of a post I wrote a while back on Always Unschooled. I just re-read it--I messed up how old she was when her dad donated the toys, she was about two, not three or four.
Here's the post, in response to a mom concerned about hoarding and too many toys (excuse the dramatic rhetoric, please...I've mellowed tons since then):
----"[Noor] has drawers of feathers, felt, fabric, beads, buttons, bits and bobbles,
costumes, rocks, sticks, empty containers, dead and dried bugs and plants,
pieces of taken apart things, art supplies, and stacks of cardboard boxes (some
really big ones from new toilets my parents bought awhile back). This list is
not exhaustive.
She also has a LOT of stuffed animals and puppets. We counted them all a year
ago and there were well over (I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this) 100. We have
our own plush zoo, seriously. And she plays with ALL of them all the time.
About a month before Halloween, she started making costumes for many of
them--there were days I couldn't get her out of the house because she was so
engaged in her WORK.
But this isn't the point I was going to make--The massive amount of stuffed
animals is something that really bothers my dh--simply because of the clutter.
He isn't bothered at all by the creative mess of the other, more artsy stuff.
When I reflected on her stuffy collection, I remembered that when she was quite
young, maybe 1.5 or two, dh decided to do a massive purge. We were living in
an 800 sqf house and we'd cycle the toys by putting containers in the basement.
One day dh went through everything and brought two containers to Goodwill.
FLash forward a year or two or even three, and dd asks for one of the things
from the basement. But its long gone. You can see the sense of betrayal in her
eyes and hear it in her words when she asks how we could have given her things
away without her permission.
Then I thought about something else she still talks about--when dd was about
1.5, dh was holding her while standing near the toilet and she dropped her paci
in. I fished the paci out of the toilet and threw it in the trash. I told her
that we could never get it clean enough to use again. At the time, she was a
little upset, but it passed quickly.
But she still talks about her "favorite green binky" that "dad" threw in the
trash! She knows how we sterilize things with rubbing alcohol, and after we've
pulled a tic off the cat or something and are cleaning the tweezers, she'll
often bring up the binky and ask why we couldn't sterilize it--why did we have
to throw it away? Why couldn't she have kept it, even if she couldn't put it in
her mouth? She is emphatic that we should have saved it for her.
What I'm getting at is these "things" are much more meaningful to our young
people than we usually recognize. If I add some of my Lacanian baggage to the
equation, I can even see how these "things" are REAL extensions of their sense
of self--our (adults) chucking/donating/stashing the stuff is, in this regard,
actually an act of violence against their subjectivity (sorry).
I know this has spun way off from the center of the question: "how many toys are
too many toys," but the additional posts about hoarding got me going....(and
going and going and going)
One more quick realization--both of my grandmothers were collectors. I still
have shoe boxes with jars of buttons and zippers cut from old shirts, jackets
and pants, pieces of 40 year old twine salvaged from newspapers, elastic straps
from worn-out bras and the waistbands of slips. When I need to run an extra
piece of elastic through my slender daughter's pants, I use the "scraps" my
grandmother saved. And now, when dd asks that I not throw something away
because it will be "useful,' I clean out another drawer, or find a box, because
she obviously knows what she's talking about." ------
Brie
frantic.----
Yes. That's what happened here too, and FIVE years later, Noor still freaks out when my husband starts to clean.
I have to give him a heap of credit though, Noor doesn't just have a lot of things, she also *generates* a lot of things. She can fill a ream of paper with drawings in six weeks. Clay, foam, pipecleaner, aluminum foil figures.....Her dad lovingly archives it all.
---Also, and this is just a maybe in my mind, but I'm coming to discover that he
really truly envisions a purpose for all these household items and toys, or a
circumstance in the future in which it might be fun to play with them.------
I honestly think that Noor knows, intimately, every last little rock or twig or twist tie or ribbon or cardboard matchbox or broken dragon arm that she has, and on top of that, aside from one prized Pokemon card, she has a pretty good idea where *it* is.
----I know with shows like the Hoarders and the like, it's easy to pathologize and get nervous about accumulating stuff-----
I watched an episode of one of those shows with my MIL. Every person they profiled came from a seriously messed up background/present. Reading about Sandra's daughter Holly choosing a new bed, or one of her son's not taking a loan for a car, Pam's daughter's spending (or lack thereof) in France....keeps me secure that by giving as much as I can, I will only help Noor feel fuller, not more needy.
This thread, and the frantic cleaning we did all day in preparation for a gathering tomorrow, reminded me of a post I wrote a while back on Always Unschooled. I just re-read it--I messed up how old she was when her dad donated the toys, she was about two, not three or four.
Here's the post, in response to a mom concerned about hoarding and too many toys (excuse the dramatic rhetoric, please...I've mellowed tons since then):
----"[Noor] has drawers of feathers, felt, fabric, beads, buttons, bits and bobbles,
costumes, rocks, sticks, empty containers, dead and dried bugs and plants,
pieces of taken apart things, art supplies, and stacks of cardboard boxes (some
really big ones from new toilets my parents bought awhile back). This list is
not exhaustive.
She also has a LOT of stuffed animals and puppets. We counted them all a year
ago and there were well over (I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this) 100. We have
our own plush zoo, seriously. And she plays with ALL of them all the time.
About a month before Halloween, she started making costumes for many of
them--there were days I couldn't get her out of the house because she was so
engaged in her WORK.
But this isn't the point I was going to make--The massive amount of stuffed
animals is something that really bothers my dh--simply because of the clutter.
He isn't bothered at all by the creative mess of the other, more artsy stuff.
When I reflected on her stuffy collection, I remembered that when she was quite
young, maybe 1.5 or two, dh decided to do a massive purge. We were living in
an 800 sqf house and we'd cycle the toys by putting containers in the basement.
One day dh went through everything and brought two containers to Goodwill.
FLash forward a year or two or even three, and dd asks for one of the things
from the basement. But its long gone. You can see the sense of betrayal in her
eyes and hear it in her words when she asks how we could have given her things
away without her permission.
Then I thought about something else she still talks about--when dd was about
1.5, dh was holding her while standing near the toilet and she dropped her paci
in. I fished the paci out of the toilet and threw it in the trash. I told her
that we could never get it clean enough to use again. At the time, she was a
little upset, but it passed quickly.
But she still talks about her "favorite green binky" that "dad" threw in the
trash! She knows how we sterilize things with rubbing alcohol, and after we've
pulled a tic off the cat or something and are cleaning the tweezers, she'll
often bring up the binky and ask why we couldn't sterilize it--why did we have
to throw it away? Why couldn't she have kept it, even if she couldn't put it in
her mouth? She is emphatic that we should have saved it for her.
What I'm getting at is these "things" are much more meaningful to our young
people than we usually recognize. If I add some of my Lacanian baggage to the
equation, I can even see how these "things" are REAL extensions of their sense
of self--our (adults) chucking/donating/stashing the stuff is, in this regard,
actually an act of violence against their subjectivity (sorry).
I know this has spun way off from the center of the question: "how many toys are
too many toys," but the additional posts about hoarding got me going....(and
going and going and going)
One more quick realization--both of my grandmothers were collectors. I still
have shoe boxes with jars of buttons and zippers cut from old shirts, jackets
and pants, pieces of 40 year old twine salvaged from newspapers, elastic straps
from worn-out bras and the waistbands of slips. When I need to run an extra
piece of elastic through my slender daughter's pants, I use the "scraps" my
grandmother saved. And now, when dd asks that I not throw something away
because it will be "useful,' I clean out another drawer, or find a box, because
she obviously knows what she's talking about." ------
Brie
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 14, 2011, at 10:01 PM, Dicie_B wrote:
right and good just because you were doing things that way. If you
decide to pare things down that doesn't necessarily mean he'll see the
value in it. And if you impose your principles of paring down on him,
he'd have even less reason to see them as a good thing!
You could draw him into the process of helping you pare your stuff
down if that at all interests him. He'll see and hear the process of
deciding what to keep and what not and what to do with the things. He
might even have some suggestions.
But as was mentioned, often kids just want to spend time with a toy
while they're in the store.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Quite frankly, I now believe my husband and I have an overconsumingI wouldn't assume, though, that he would absorb your principles as
> problem and have not set the example for our son that I wanted to
right and good just because you were doing things that way. If you
decide to pare things down that doesn't necessarily mean he'll see the
value in it. And if you impose your principles of paring down on him,
he'd have even less reason to see them as a good thing!
You could draw him into the process of helping you pare your stuff
down if that at all interests him. He'll see and hear the process of
deciding what to keep and what not and what to do with the things. He
might even have some suggestions.
> My son however is now very used to buying toys everywhere we go. IsI'd do less shopping with him! Or, if you must, go to thrift stores.
> it fair to the child to cut back on the future purchases when he
> REALLY believes that he wants it?
But as was mentioned, often kids just want to spend time with a toy
while they're in the store.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
HA
You might want to try tweaking your organization to fit his needs. A good tip I heard once was "Make things easier to put away than to take out." An example is toy cars. Instead of putting them all in a big box that can be dumped out in a second, put them in a drawer organizer. He'll be able to pick out the specific ones he wants, and after he's done there will be five cars to put away instead of fifty.
CDs/DVDs can be put into sleeves in binders instead of stacked in cases. Put a few empty pages in the front for putting things away in a pinch.
Blocks are great bagged into like groups and placed in a bigger box.
Creations can be hung along the wall on string with clothes pins.
I'm sure we can help you come up with ideas if there are specific toys giving you problems.
Other than that, I think at this age I would opt for a storage unit. By the time he is 8 or 10, getting rid of some of the toys he has now probably won't be so difficult.
Good luck,
Hilary E.
CDs/DVDs can be put into sleeves in binders instead of stacked in cases. Put a few empty pages in the front for putting things away in a pinch.
Blocks are great bagged into like groups and placed in a bigger box.
Creations can be hung along the wall on string with clothes pins.
I'm sure we can help you come up with ideas if there are specific toys giving you problems.
Other than that, I think at this age I would opt for a storage unit. By the time he is 8 or 10, getting rid of some of the toys he has now probably won't be so difficult.
Good luck,
Hilary E.
Robin Bentley
> For the future though, we are bursting at the seams here. WeCan you rent a storage locker? Maybe get one big enough to play in
> really have A LOT of things and toys. Most of it I know is our
> doing. And I have every intention of working to change my own
> buying habits, but we are already in space/versus posession trouble.
when you visit it :-)
>Is there a difference between his "believing" he wants something and
> My son however is now very used to buying toys everywhere we go. Is
> it fair to the child to cut back on the future purchases when he
> REALLY believes that he wants it?
his wanting something? I'm not sure I know what you mean.
As far as cutting back on future purchases, is that something you need
to do in order to not overspend? If you don't have the money for
something he wants, you can acknowledge his wants and make a list of
things you'll buy when you can afford them. A "wish list."
Even if you do have the cash to spend, having a wish list can end up
prioritizing what he'd really like to have.
Robin B.
Ticia
My first thought on this topic was TOY ROTATION!
Get some bins and put the toys that don't seem so interesting to him for the moment in them. Put them in a closet, the garage, a shed, wherever you have space to store.
My mom did this, I do this and my kids LOVE it. It feels good for you as a parent to have some toys "contained" it feels fun for your child to pull out a bin and it feel like a holiday of fun and remembering those toys that are rediscovered.
I wouldn't put favorite toys or toys most loved in a bin, but we have had so much fun rediscovering our needs through this "method". I say method loosely because it changes and evolves in our family and with each child.
Get some bins and put the toys that don't seem so interesting to him for the moment in them. Put them in a closet, the garage, a shed, wherever you have space to store.
My mom did this, I do this and my kids LOVE it. It feels good for you as a parent to have some toys "contained" it feels fun for your child to pull out a bin and it feel like a holiday of fun and remembering those toys that are rediscovered.
I wouldn't put favorite toys or toys most loved in a bin, but we have had so much fun rediscovering our needs through this "method". I say method loosely because it changes and evolves in our family and with each child.