Re: My Ramble
[email protected]
In a message dated 03/19/2002 5:19:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
were in school, he'd be learning 6 hours a day, plus homework. We usually
try to reassure him, etc., until he gets bored and stops. I think he freaks
when he talks to his mother, who is a retired teacher and always hated me
anyway.)
Lately, though, Julian, 12, has had an academic burst of energy, and is doing
a cool set of courses through a weekend high school enrichment program at MIT
AND teaching himself high school chemistry with a CD-ROM he asked me to buy
him. Now Grandma and Dad can just reassure himself that Julian is Gifted, so
he's okay.
We sort of shrug and decided it was all in how you market it.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> Much to my husband's horror, I do very little so-called structuredJulian's dad has periodic tantrums about unschooling, complaining that if he
> learning with my children. he's like to see filled workbooks and written
> stuff but it ain't happened yet. He wants to know how they can possibly
> 'get on' in the world when they never pick up a pen, do maths etc
> (get-on means career, money, pension plans etc etc)
>
were in school, he'd be learning 6 hours a day, plus homework. We usually
try to reassure him, etc., until he gets bored and stops. I think he freaks
when he talks to his mother, who is a retired teacher and always hated me
anyway.)
Lately, though, Julian, 12, has had an academic burst of energy, and is doing
a cool set of courses through a weekend high school enrichment program at MIT
AND teaching himself high school chemistry with a CD-ROM he asked me to buy
him. Now Grandma and Dad can just reassure himself that Julian is Gifted, so
he's okay.
We sort of shrug and decided it was all in how you market it.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/19/02 6:25:53 PM Mountain Standard Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
six hours a day, unless they have a seven-period day. Classes are generally
50 minutes. Of that, the first five or more are roll call and announcements,
then there's assignment and getting organized and answering questions. Most
of the kids are not paying attention because they already know the material,
or because they don't understand it and don't want to. MAYBE five people
will be learning for five or ten minutes apiece.
A lucky, attentive kid might learn for an hour in a typical secondary school
week.
Some kids learn NOTHING in a week, or a month. All of them learn to resent
teachers and to avoid learning.
I'm not exaggerating at all.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
> Julian's dad has periodic tantrums about unschooling, complaining that if heKids are not LEARNING six hours a day in school. They're not even in class
> were in school, he'd be learning 6 hours a day, plus homework.
six hours a day, unless they have a seven-period day. Classes are generally
50 minutes. Of that, the first five or more are roll call and announcements,
then there's assignment and getting organized and answering questions. Most
of the kids are not paying attention because they already know the material,
or because they don't understand it and don't want to. MAYBE five people
will be learning for five or ten minutes apiece.
A lucky, attentive kid might learn for an hour in a typical secondary school
week.
Some kids learn NOTHING in a week, or a month. All of them learn to resent
teachers and to avoid learning.
I'm not exaggerating at all.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 03/20/2002 12:10:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sandra Dodd
writes:
plenty of friends in school. In fact, Perry (Julian's dad) should know better
because he went to a prep school he hated, followed by Hippy College
(Hampshire College, where we met), which he loved. His rants often hold
Julian's best friend, Nick, as an example of someone in school, who is
"Learning All the Time and Getting a good Education." It sucks for Julian and
Nick, really. Ironic thing is Nick hates school, and his parents are hoping
that they will get him into a new Sudbury Valley School that is opening in
their area in the fall.
Bizarre thing, and I wonder if anyone else has had this experience. I and
many of my friends have noticed a strange tendency in many cool men we know
(including Julian's dad, actually) to get scarily more conservative as they
hit middle age...but women often becoming more and more liberal. Is this just
our circle? Is there something in the water? Can we do something to stop this
frightening thing?
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> > Julian's dad has periodic tantrums about unschooling, complaining that ifOh, we know. Julian went through the third grade in school, and we have
> he
> > were in school, he'd be learning 6 hours a day, plus homework.
>
> Kids are not LEARNING six hours a day in school. They're not even in class
> six hours a day, unless they have a seven-period day. Classes are
> generally
> 50 minutes. Of that, the first five or more are roll call and
> announcements,
> then there's assignment and getting organized and answering questions.
> Most
> of the kids are not paying attention because they already know the
> material,
> or because they don't understand it and don't want to. MAYBE five people
> will be learning for five or ten minutes apiece.
>
> A lucky, attentive kid might learn for an hour in a typical secondary
> school
> week.
> Some kids learn NOTHING in a week, or a month. All of them learn to resent
> teachers and to avoid learning.
>
> I'm not exaggerating at all.
>
>
plenty of friends in school. In fact, Perry (Julian's dad) should know better
because he went to a prep school he hated, followed by Hippy College
(Hampshire College, where we met), which he loved. His rants often hold
Julian's best friend, Nick, as an example of someone in school, who is
"Learning All the Time and Getting a good Education." It sucks for Julian and
Nick, really. Ironic thing is Nick hates school, and his parents are hoping
that they will get him into a new Sudbury Valley School that is opening in
their area in the fall.
Bizarre thing, and I wonder if anyone else has had this experience. I and
many of my friends have noticed a strange tendency in many cool men we know
(including Julian's dad, actually) to get scarily more conservative as they
hit middle age...but women often becoming more and more liberal. Is this just
our circle? Is there something in the water? Can we do something to stop this
frightening thing?
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 03/20/2002 12:10:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
around. We'd love unschooler visitors!
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> Ho hum. We're going away for 3 months this summer. Without DH. As I can'tYes! We're in Salem, MA, close to Boston, and we have space and cool stuff
> afford
> to fly home. I'm chucking the tent in the car and heading out into the US
> to see
> how far I get.
> Anyone want a visit from 4 brits?
>
>
around. We'd love unschooler visitors!
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachelle
<<<I and
many of my friends have noticed a strange tendency in many cool men we know
(including Julian's dad, actually) to get scarily more conservative as they
hit middle age...but women often becoming more and more liberal.>>>
JMHO, but I think the men (especially White men) learn as they get older that the conservative "system" WORKS for them...it benefits them.... why be liberal and fight for the rights of others when you already HAVE yours?? Don't jump down my throat....here is the usualy disclaimer...NOT ALL men are that way...but that's my theory. :-)
Rachelle (who's husband likes to joke that "I'm White, I'm a straight male, and I'm between the ages of 18 and 49...therefore I'm 'part of the problem'" :-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
many of my friends have noticed a strange tendency in many cool men we know
(including Julian's dad, actually) to get scarily more conservative as they
hit middle age...but women often becoming more and more liberal.>>>
JMHO, but I think the men (especially White men) learn as they get older that the conservative "system" WORKS for them...it benefits them.... why be liberal and fight for the rights of others when you already HAVE yours?? Don't jump down my throat....here is the usualy disclaimer...NOT ALL men are that way...but that's my theory. :-)
Rachelle (who's husband likes to joke that "I'm White, I'm a straight male, and I'm between the ages of 18 and 49...therefore I'm 'part of the problem'" :-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
KathrynJB@... wrote:
anti war. He was ranting on the other day and sounded like a war mongering
republican. He's being indoctrinated by CNN!!
Shyrley
> Bizarre thing, and I wonder if anyone else has had this experience. I andYup. Same here. When I met my husband he was a hippy, into CND, leftish veiws,
> many of my friends have noticed a strange tendency in many cool men we know
> (including Julian's dad, actually) to get scarily more conservative as they
> hit middle age...but women often becoming more and more liberal. Is this just
> our circle? Is there something in the water? Can we do something to stop this
> frightening thing?
>
> Kathryn
>
anti war. He was ranting on the other day and sounded like a war mongering
republican. He's being indoctrinated by CNN!!
Shyrley
moonmeghan
> Bizarre thing, and I wonder if anyone else has had thisexperience. I and
> many of my friends have noticed a strange tendency in manycool men we know
> (including Julian's dad, actually) to get scarily moreconservative as they
> hit middle age...but women often becoming more and moreliberal. Is this just
> our circle? Is there something in the water? Can we dosomething to stop this
> frightening thing?I've noticed the same thing with Tamzin's dad. It seemed to start
>
> Kathryn
>
happening when we had a child. His thought processes became
more and more like his conservative parents. It was pretty scary.
He's only 34 though. Mind you, he's still runs in the music scene
and is fairly 'alternative' in the rest of his life. His conservative
background just seems to come out in his childrearing practices
<sigh>.
Meghan
Kate Green
Mine has happily done the opposite. His parents are from Louisiana, and he
grew up shooting animals, eating only meat and potatoes, conservative,
narrow-minded... He was very cute though thank goodness:)
Anyway now he is almost vegetarian, virtually a pacifist, and sometimes
more liberal in views than me!! He says I rubbed off on him.
Kate
At 01:35 PM 3/20/02 -0500, you wrote:
grew up shooting animals, eating only meat and potatoes, conservative,
narrow-minded... He was very cute though thank goodness:)
Anyway now he is almost vegetarian, virtually a pacifist, and sometimes
more liberal in views than me!! He says I rubbed off on him.
Kate
At 01:35 PM 3/20/02 -0500, you wrote:
>just
>
> KathrynJB@... wrote:
>
>> Bizarre thing, and I wonder if anyone else has had this experience. I and
>> many of my friends have noticed a strange tendency in many cool men we know
>> (including Julian's dad, actually) to get scarily more conservative as they
>> hit middle age...but women often becoming more and more liberal. Is this
>> our circle? Is there something in the water? Can we do something to stopthis
>> frightening thing?veiws,
>>
>> Kathryn
>>
>
> Yup. Same here. When I met my husband he was a hippy, into CND, leftish
> anti war. He was ranting on the other day and sounded like a war mongering
> republican. He's being indoctrinated by CNN!!
>
> Shyrley
>
>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 03/21/2002 9:59:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
and really, for sending my son to school.
What is your son doing there?
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> > In fact, Perry (Julian's dad) should know betterI loved Hampshire. As I said, it ruined me for traditional higher eucation,
> > because he went to a prep school he hated, followed by Hippy College
> > (Hampshire College, where we met), which he loved. His rants often hold
> > Julian's best friend, Nick, as an example of someone in school, who is
> > "Learning All the Time and Getting a good Education." It sucks for
> Julian
>
> Kathryn, this is such a kick! My son Phil, the kid I wrote about who fired
> me as his teacher, who unschooled himself after that, and who is now
> happily
> at the college of his choice, is at Hampshire, lol!! And he loves it
> there,
> too. He's home now for spring break, and it is such a treat to have him
> here.
>
>
and really, for sending my son to school.
What is your son doing there?
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 03/21/2002 9:59:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
UMass/Amherst, Amherst College, Mt. Holyoke, and Smith. Hamphire has no
required courses, credits, or grades. The approach to learning is called
Modes of Inquiry -- depending on what you're learning, you ask questions in
different ways. How you might study Natural Science would be different from
how you might study Literature, for example.
The approach to learning in a class is often different too...rather than
beginning with, say, Biology 101 or Intro to Sociology, Hampshire offers
courses like:The Ecological Footprint: A Tool For A Sustainable Future,
Human Gene Therapy: Proceed with Caution, Life Stories from Latin America,
Women and Gender in Catholic Europe (Ca. 300-1700). Rather than going from
the general to specific interest, it's the opposite, where you begin to learn
about something you're interested in, then learn the general stuff to support
your understanding.
There's more, but I won't ramble :)
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> > > In fact, Perry (Julian's dad) should know betterWell, I call it that... It was "invented" in the late 60's by educators from
> > > because he went to a prep school he hated, followed by Hippy
> College
> > > (Hampshire College, where we met), which he loved
>
> Just curious. What makes it a "hippie college"?
>
UMass/Amherst, Amherst College, Mt. Holyoke, and Smith. Hamphire has no
required courses, credits, or grades. The approach to learning is called
Modes of Inquiry -- depending on what you're learning, you ask questions in
different ways. How you might study Natural Science would be different from
how you might study Literature, for example.
The approach to learning in a class is often different too...rather than
beginning with, say, Biology 101 or Intro to Sociology, Hampshire offers
courses like:The Ecological Footprint: A Tool For A Sustainable Future,
Human Gene Therapy: Proceed with Caution, Life Stories from Latin America,
Women and Gender in Catholic Europe (Ca. 300-1700). Rather than going from
the general to specific interest, it's the opposite, where you begin to learn
about something you're interested in, then learn the general stuff to support
your understanding.
There's more, but I won't ramble :)
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mbyeagerus
--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., KathrynJB@a... wrote:
to do nothing but study military history and world security issues."
His courses are Imagining Latin America and the Middle East; Conflict
Resolution and Historical Analysis; Black Nationalism, Emigration,
and Conflicting Views of Citizenship in African-American History; and
The State in Africa: Between Democratic Reform, Paralysis, and
Collapse.
He defines the term military broadly: military history is the history
of armed conflict. In Hampshire-ese, his field of study translates
into "Peace and Conflict Studies in Modern History with an Emphasis
on Western Expansion."
I wrote in a previous post about his experience chasing grades at the
junior college and why he would love a place where every assignment
receives the instructor's personal evaluation rather than a 'grade.'
Marge
PS: He says, "Hi, Sandra! Having a blast!!"
> I loved Hampshire. As I said, it ruined me for traditional highereucation,
> and really, for sending my son to school.He says: "I'm there because I hate grades, I love writing, and I want
>
> What is your son doing there?
to do nothing but study military history and world security issues."
His courses are Imagining Latin America and the Middle East; Conflict
Resolution and Historical Analysis; Black Nationalism, Emigration,
and Conflicting Views of Citizenship in African-American History; and
The State in Africa: Between Democratic Reform, Paralysis, and
Collapse.
He defines the term military broadly: military history is the history
of armed conflict. In Hampshire-ese, his field of study translates
into "Peace and Conflict Studies in Modern History with an Emphasis
on Western Expansion."
I wrote in a previous post about his experience chasing grades at the
junior college and why he would love a place where every assignment
receives the instructor's personal evaluation rather than a 'grade.'
Marge
PS: He says, "Hi, Sandra! Having a blast!!"
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/21/02 3:54:56 PM, MBYeager@... writes:
<<
PS: He says, "Hi, Sandra! Having a blast!!" >>
It was fun talking about history with him. He totally lit up and got an inch
taller.
<<
PS: He says, "Hi, Sandra! Having a blast!!" >>
It was fun talking about history with him. He totally lit up and got an inch
taller.