Funboxes & Mild Math Freakout
Amanda's Shoebox
It hit me yesterday when I was reading someone's post on another forum on workboxes, that I could modify that idea for unschooling. So I told my girls that I was going to create some "funboxes", filled with fun things to do, and I wanted their suggestions on categories for the boxes.
They came up with some great ideas:
sports (jiu jitsu)
games
crafts (dalek costume)
music (guitar)
writing
Knitting
Crocheting
Sewing
Cooking
Baking
Science Experiments
Costa Rica
Countries of the World
While researching things I could fill the funboxes with I kept seeing math things people put in their workboxes. I had a mild freakout about my girls learning math. I loved math as a child and none of my girls have exhibited that same love I have for it (or any real interest in it at all really). For me, math is a game... they just don't see it that way.
So I read the following page:
http://sandradodd.com/math/
... and had a great conversation with my husband who reminded me how he learned math (as he needed it) and my fears have mostly subsided. We've only been unschooling for about 4 months though, so I'm going to give myself time, trust the process, and take a deep breath and relax when I feel that fear creeping up inside me.
~ Amanda
***********
Note for Sandra:
The following link didn't work for me on the math page:
Pam Sorooshian's math page
This is where Pam is gathering her math suggestions. Bookmark it and check it out often as she'll be adding to it.
I was redirected to:
https://www.me.com/account_error.html
***********
They came up with some great ideas:
sports (jiu jitsu)
games
crafts (dalek costume)
music (guitar)
writing
Knitting
Crocheting
Sewing
Cooking
Baking
Science Experiments
Costa Rica
Countries of the World
While researching things I could fill the funboxes with I kept seeing math things people put in their workboxes. I had a mild freakout about my girls learning math. I loved math as a child and none of my girls have exhibited that same love I have for it (or any real interest in it at all really). For me, math is a game... they just don't see it that way.
So I read the following page:
http://sandradodd.com/math/
... and had a great conversation with my husband who reminded me how he learned math (as he needed it) and my fears have mostly subsided. We've only been unschooling for about 4 months though, so I'm going to give myself time, trust the process, and take a deep breath and relax when I feel that fear creeping up inside me.
~ Amanda
***********
Note for Sandra:
The following link didn't work for me on the math page:
Pam Sorooshian's math page
This is where Pam is gathering her math suggestions. Bookmark it and check it out often as she'll be adding to it.
I was redirected to:
https://www.me.com/account_error.html
***********
plaidpanties666
"Amanda's Shoebox" <amandasshoebox@...> wrote:
To what purpose? That's something to think about, because the idea doesn't seem to have much to do with unschooling at all. Is it that you want to organize your home better? Do the kids need things to do in the car, at the park, the beach and are sick of looking for flip-flops and nerf guns when you're trying to get out the door? Are the kids bored and you're feeling a need to point them in a direction to alleviate that? What are these boxes for?
Something else to ponder is why the need to divide the world up in this way - why are science experiements a different "box" than cooking, baking, sports, crafts, countries of the world, or music, for instance? From the categories its seems there are some assumptions about learning tied up in there, and its valuable to think about those assumptions.
I keep a stash of stuff in the car for when I'm running errands, so Mo doesn't get bored. I change it out periodically, notice which books are getting read and which aren't, notice which toys don't lend themselves well to car-play, that sort of thing. We've started visiting a coffee-shop regularly and spending time hanging around there, so we have a new bag of things to do in the coffee shop, mostly games, but some books and portable crafts too (knitting is portable, glitter painting is not, for instance). Those sorts of things could be called "funboxes" (or back-packs in my case). The purpose of them is so that Mo can have fun even when she doesn't have access to alllllll her usual tools and supplies.
To that end, you might want to drop some of those "educational" forums and sites for awhile, if they're undermining your confidence and confusing you with ideas like "workboxes". The underlying ideas there seem to be about organizing learning *for* other people.
How would you organize your things if "learning" wasn't important? That's a funny question isn't it, on a list about learning? But if you're thinking too hard about things being "learning experiences" it can blind you to the real learning that comes naturally, from ideas and experiences swirling around together. For example, is making a cherry cobbler cooking or baking? What if it involves fresh cherries and you want to cook them down a little first, maybe make some preserves at the same time? And if you went to pick the cherries that morning? And played a game of miniature golf in the cherry orchard? And had a conversation about strokes the lady who owns the orchard whose husband had had one that morning? That was a real day I had with my 8yo a few weeks ago. It didn't start from an idea about learning anything at all, but an idea about a freezer full of my friend's oh-so-tart cherries. My kid wanted to come along and bring her golf clubs and learning happened right and left. It would have happened if she'd stayed home, too, just different learning. Its easy to "see" learning in big exciting days like the one I described, but there's Just As Much learning going on during the quiet, slow, fond days at home.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>> It hit me yesterday when I was reading someone's post on another forum on workboxes, that I could modify that idea for unschooling.***************
To what purpose? That's something to think about, because the idea doesn't seem to have much to do with unschooling at all. Is it that you want to organize your home better? Do the kids need things to do in the car, at the park, the beach and are sick of looking for flip-flops and nerf guns when you're trying to get out the door? Are the kids bored and you're feeling a need to point them in a direction to alleviate that? What are these boxes for?
Something else to ponder is why the need to divide the world up in this way - why are science experiements a different "box" than cooking, baking, sports, crafts, countries of the world, or music, for instance? From the categories its seems there are some assumptions about learning tied up in there, and its valuable to think about those assumptions.
I keep a stash of stuff in the car for when I'm running errands, so Mo doesn't get bored. I change it out periodically, notice which books are getting read and which aren't, notice which toys don't lend themselves well to car-play, that sort of thing. We've started visiting a coffee-shop regularly and spending time hanging around there, so we have a new bag of things to do in the coffee shop, mostly games, but some books and portable crafts too (knitting is portable, glitter painting is not, for instance). Those sorts of things could be called "funboxes" (or back-packs in my case). The purpose of them is so that Mo can have fun even when she doesn't have access to alllllll her usual tools and supplies.
>>We've only been unschooling for about 4 months though, so I'm going to give myself time, trust the process, and take a deep breath and relax when I feel that fear creeping up inside me.****************
To that end, you might want to drop some of those "educational" forums and sites for awhile, if they're undermining your confidence and confusing you with ideas like "workboxes". The underlying ideas there seem to be about organizing learning *for* other people.
How would you organize your things if "learning" wasn't important? That's a funny question isn't it, on a list about learning? But if you're thinking too hard about things being "learning experiences" it can blind you to the real learning that comes naturally, from ideas and experiences swirling around together. For example, is making a cherry cobbler cooking or baking? What if it involves fresh cherries and you want to cook them down a little first, maybe make some preserves at the same time? And if you went to pick the cherries that morning? And played a game of miniature golf in the cherry orchard? And had a conversation about strokes the lady who owns the orchard whose husband had had one that morning? That was a real day I had with my 8yo a few weeks ago. It didn't start from an idea about learning anything at all, but an idea about a freezer full of my friend's oh-so-tart cherries. My kid wanted to come along and bring her golf clubs and learning happened right and left. It would have happened if she'd stayed home, too, just different learning. Its easy to "see" learning in big exciting days like the one I described, but there's Just As Much learning going on during the quiet, slow, fond days at home.
>>For me, math is a game... they just don't see it that way.If you're thinking of math in terms of playing with numbers it can help to think about patterns and relationships, instead (but maybe don't mention that for awhile, you and they both need more deschooling). Every one of those "boxes" you listed has an element of math to it, without adding anything that looks like numbers. You can't crochet without thinking about patterns and relationships, or do any kind of physical activity. Even cooking without measuring a darn thing is full of patterns and relationships. There's a lot of conceptual math tied up in all those things.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Amanda's Shoebox
-=-What are these boxes for? -=-
I've been hearing "I'm bored" a lot in the past week or two, especially last night when we lost internet for 4 hours. I had recently read about strewing and thought this would be a perfect way to strew their interests (as opposed to mine).
-=-From the categories its seems there are some assumptions about learning tied up in there, and its valuable to think about those assumptions. -=-
I used the word "categories" because I specifically wanted to avoid the word "subjects", which would make them think of school when my genuine and specific purpose was to provide them with more fun things to do. Maybe there's a better word than categories?
-=-To that end, you might want to drop some of those "educational" forums and sites for awhile, if they're undermining your confidence and confusing you with ideas like "workboxes".-=-
I completely agree. I've dropped most of my homeschooling/forums because they just aren't relevant in our lives anymore. The only "homeschooling" forum I still read is a SecularHS because I'm an Athiest and I do find that about 25% of their posts are still of interest to me.
-=-you and they both need more deschooling-=-
Do you ever stop deschooling when you're unschooling? What's the difference?
-=-Every one of those "boxes" you listed has an element of math to it, without adding anything that looks like numbers. You can't crochet without thinking about patterns and relationships, or do any kind of physical activity. Even cooking without measuring a darn thing is full of patterns and relationships. There's a lot of conceptual math tied up in all those things. -=-
You're right! Thanks :)
I've been hearing "I'm bored" a lot in the past week or two, especially last night when we lost internet for 4 hours. I had recently read about strewing and thought this would be a perfect way to strew their interests (as opposed to mine).
-=-From the categories its seems there are some assumptions about learning tied up in there, and its valuable to think about those assumptions. -=-
I used the word "categories" because I specifically wanted to avoid the word "subjects", which would make them think of school when my genuine and specific purpose was to provide them with more fun things to do. Maybe there's a better word than categories?
-=-To that end, you might want to drop some of those "educational" forums and sites for awhile, if they're undermining your confidence and confusing you with ideas like "workboxes".-=-
I completely agree. I've dropped most of my homeschooling/forums because they just aren't relevant in our lives anymore. The only "homeschooling" forum I still read is a SecularHS because I'm an Athiest and I do find that about 25% of their posts are still of interest to me.
-=-you and they both need more deschooling-=-
Do you ever stop deschooling when you're unschooling? What's the difference?
-=-Every one of those "boxes" you listed has an element of math to it, without adding anything that looks like numbers. You can't crochet without thinking about patterns and relationships, or do any kind of physical activity. Even cooking without measuring a darn thing is full of patterns and relationships. There's a lot of conceptual math tied up in all those things. -=-
You're right! Thanks :)
Sandra Dodd
-=-Something else to ponder is why the need to divide the world up in
this way - why are science experiements a different "box" than
cooking, baking, sports, crafts, countries of the world, or music, for
instance? From the categories its seems there are some assumptions
about learning tied up in there, and its valuable to think about those
assumptions. -=-
I was wondering too, but we've had lots of sorted-int0-boxes toys
(some still in their boxes, still brought out sometimes when younger
kids are over)--toy dishes, toy phones, Fisher Price village,
dinosaurs, toy food, "McDonald Toys" (any fast-food or promotional
toys).
In the library upstairs I have one box of all the pop-up books of one
author (small books). They're all Marty's property, but they're put
up there so they won't be messed up. And there's a box of souvenirs
of England (junk from England, I mean). I have postcards in a box.
I have an Australia box, with things people have sent me, and a
book... I have a little packet of WWII-era stuff that wasn't from my
family. Various 1940's papers, not mine, but I keep them together so
that someday when someone's interested in that time I can pull them
down as touchable evidence. It came with some other things, from an
antique shop.
For someone who is inclined to have a mild math freakout, having a box
filled with things called "Math" seems to be a profoundly bad idea.
-=-We've only been unschooling for about 4 months though, so I'm going
to give myself time, trust the process, and take a deep breath and
relax when I feel that fear creeping up inside me.-=-
Part of the process is that first you deschool, though.
-=-For me, math is a game... they just don't see it that way.-=-
You're still seeing math as "a..." something. As separate from other
things. Math is all the games, art and music in the whole world, all
the measurements and ratios, distances and microscopic realities.
Math is all the patterns in all the shells and leaves and flowers and
crystals (including salt and sugar, right in your own kitchen) and in
how weather works and how to know when the moon will come up or how
the stars seem to move around different times of the year (if you live
where you can see enough stars). Math is in automotive engineering,
in how houses are constructed and where the electrical outlets are
likely to be, and in the angles of roofs and streets.
I'm not the best at thinking of where math is. I'm sure others can
run their own trails through the world and point at some things you
wouldn't be able to put in a box.
http://sandradodd.com/learning
Maybe look at that "everything in the whole wide world museum" book.
If it's not on that page, could someone please find the notes? I need
to go to a restaurant now. :0)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
this way - why are science experiements a different "box" than
cooking, baking, sports, crafts, countries of the world, or music, for
instance? From the categories its seems there are some assumptions
about learning tied up in there, and its valuable to think about those
assumptions. -=-
I was wondering too, but we've had lots of sorted-int0-boxes toys
(some still in their boxes, still brought out sometimes when younger
kids are over)--toy dishes, toy phones, Fisher Price village,
dinosaurs, toy food, "McDonald Toys" (any fast-food or promotional
toys).
In the library upstairs I have one box of all the pop-up books of one
author (small books). They're all Marty's property, but they're put
up there so they won't be messed up. And there's a box of souvenirs
of England (junk from England, I mean). I have postcards in a box.
I have an Australia box, with things people have sent me, and a
book... I have a little packet of WWII-era stuff that wasn't from my
family. Various 1940's papers, not mine, but I keep them together so
that someday when someone's interested in that time I can pull them
down as touchable evidence. It came with some other things, from an
antique shop.
For someone who is inclined to have a mild math freakout, having a box
filled with things called "Math" seems to be a profoundly bad idea.
-=-We've only been unschooling for about 4 months though, so I'm going
to give myself time, trust the process, and take a deep breath and
relax when I feel that fear creeping up inside me.-=-
Part of the process is that first you deschool, though.
-=-For me, math is a game... they just don't see it that way.-=-
You're still seeing math as "a..." something. As separate from other
things. Math is all the games, art and music in the whole world, all
the measurements and ratios, distances and microscopic realities.
Math is all the patterns in all the shells and leaves and flowers and
crystals (including salt and sugar, right in your own kitchen) and in
how weather works and how to know when the moon will come up or how
the stars seem to move around different times of the year (if you live
where you can see enough stars). Math is in automotive engineering,
in how houses are constructed and where the electrical outlets are
likely to be, and in the angles of roofs and streets.
I'm not the best at thinking of where math is. I'm sure others can
run their own trails through the world and point at some things you
wouldn't be able to put in a box.
http://sandradodd.com/learning
Maybe look at that "everything in the whole wide world museum" book.
If it's not on that page, could someone please find the notes? I need
to go to a restaurant now. :0)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Lego is great for having fun without paying attention to a single fact
or factoid attached to the blocks ... just finding colors, shapes and
sizes you want for making various buildings, people and vehicles to
play with. When I'm playing with Karl, he often asks for pieces
according to color and number of bumps. He says things about that and
sometimes he doesn't. And he enjoys thinking about it... comes up with
questions and ideas out of the blue. But I know were I to make these
things more obvious by pointing them out it would make learning *and*
fun much less fun or not fun at all.
We have Zoombinis, a computer game which is a lot to do with all kinds
of concepts but done not so obviously. We play together and separately
... some parts are challenging! It's interesting how easy many of the
ideas are and how tricky their implementation can be. I've found it
isn't harder for Karl to get most of the concepts than is for *me* to
get them. But doing some of the challenges is tricky for both of us.
I don't think workboxes (or workbooks) makes it easier to see the
learning. If you're looking for reassurance that learning is
happening, give yourself more time to observe.
~Katherine
or factoid attached to the blocks ... just finding colors, shapes and
sizes you want for making various buildings, people and vehicles to
play with. When I'm playing with Karl, he often asks for pieces
according to color and number of bumps. He says things about that and
sometimes he doesn't. And he enjoys thinking about it... comes up with
questions and ideas out of the blue. But I know were I to make these
things more obvious by pointing them out it would make learning *and*
fun much less fun or not fun at all.
We have Zoombinis, a computer game which is a lot to do with all kinds
of concepts but done not so obviously. We play together and separately
... some parts are challenging! It's interesting how easy many of the
ideas are and how tricky their implementation can be. I've found it
isn't harder for Karl to get most of the concepts than is for *me* to
get them. But doing some of the challenges is tricky for both of us.
I don't think workboxes (or workbooks) makes it easier to see the
learning. If you're looking for reassurance that learning is
happening, give yourself more time to observe.
~Katherine
On 6/20/10, plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
> "Amanda's Shoebox" <amandasshoebox@...> wrote:
>>> It hit me yesterday when I was reading someone's post on another forum on
>>> workboxes, that I could modify that idea for unschooling.
> ***************
>
> To what purpose? That's something to think about, because the idea doesn't
> seem to have much to do with unschooling at all. Is it that you want to
> organize your home better? Do the kids need things to do in the car, at the
> park, the beach and are sick of looking for flip-flops and nerf guns when
> you're trying to get out the door? Are the kids bored and you're feeling a
> need to point them in a direction to alleviate that? What are these boxes
> for?
>
> Something else to ponder is why the need to divide the world up in this way
> - why are science experiements a different "box" than cooking, baking,
> sports, crafts, countries of the world, or music, for instance? From the
> categories its seems there are some assumptions about learning tied up in
> there, and its valuable to think about those assumptions.
>
> I keep a stash of stuff in the car for when I'm running errands, so Mo
> doesn't get bored. I change it out periodically, notice which books are
> getting read and which aren't, notice which toys don't lend themselves well
> to car-play, that sort of thing. We've started visiting a coffee-shop
> regularly and spending time hanging around there, so we have a new bag of
> things to do in the coffee shop, mostly games, but some books and portable
> crafts too (knitting is portable, glitter painting is not, for instance).
> Those sorts of things could be called "funboxes" (or back-packs in my case).
> The purpose of them is so that Mo can have fun even when she doesn't have
> access to alllllll her usual tools and supplies.
>
>>>We've only been unschooling for about 4 months though, so I'm going to
>>> give myself time, trust the process, and take a deep breath and relax
>>> when I feel that fear creeping up inside me.
> ****************
>
> To that end, you might want to drop some of those "educational" forums and
> sites for awhile, if they're undermining your confidence and confusing you
> with ideas like "workboxes". The underlying ideas there seem to be about
> organizing learning *for* other people.
>
> How would you organize your things if "learning" wasn't important? That's a
> funny question isn't it, on a list about learning? But if you're thinking
> too hard about things being "learning experiences" it can blind you to the
> real learning that comes naturally, from ideas and experiences swirling
> around together. For example, is making a cherry cobbler cooking or baking?
> What if it involves fresh cherries and you want to cook them down a little
> first, maybe make some preserves at the same time? And if you went to pick
> the cherries that morning? And played a game of miniature golf in the cherry
> orchard? And had a conversation about strokes the lady who owns the orchard
> whose husband had had one that morning? That was a real day I had with my
> 8yo a few weeks ago. It didn't start from an idea about learning anything at
> all, but an idea about a freezer full of my friend's oh-so-tart cherries. My
> kid wanted to come along and bring her golf clubs and learning happened
> right and left. It would have happened if she'd stayed home, too, just
> different learning. Its easy to "see" learning in big exciting days like the
> one I described, but there's Just As Much learning going on during the
> quiet, slow, fond days at home.
>
>>>For me, math is a game... they just don't see it that way.
>
> If you're thinking of math in terms of playing with numbers it can help to
> think about patterns and relationships, instead (but maybe don't mention
> that for awhile, you and they both need more deschooling). Every one of
> those "boxes" you listed has an element of math to it, without adding
> anything that looks like numbers. You can't crochet without thinking about
> patterns and relationships, or do any kind of physical activity. Even
> cooking without measuring a darn thing is full of patterns and
> relationships. There's a lot of conceptual math tied up in all those things.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Amanda's Shoebox
+++For someone who is inclined to have a mild math freakout, having a box filled with things called "Math" seems to be a profoundly bad idea.+++
This made me laugh. They chose the categories. I highly doubt my girls will ask for a math box.
I did find it very interesting what they chose. For example, if I had chosen the categories for them based on what I know about them, I may have had Costa Rica and Countries Around the World in the same box. My 14 year old wants to be a day trader half the year and travel the other half of the year. It is her goal to visit every country in the world. She's been very interested in Costa Rica lately and we've decided to make a family trip there because of her interest. So, to her, those two things are very different.
Now that I think about it... she's been studying day trading with her father... MATH! Duh... what am I so worried about? :)
My 13 year old was a little more specific in her categories... she wants supplies to build a Dalek costume and more music to fill her insatiable need to learn even more songs on the guitar.
My 10 year old can't think of any boxes she wants and has spent the day deep cleaning the house... which is amazing to me because when we had chores, she was the hardest one to get to complete them.
Children are wonderful! I'm so sorry we wasted so much of their childhood in public school and then school at home.
This made me laugh. They chose the categories. I highly doubt my girls will ask for a math box.
I did find it very interesting what they chose. For example, if I had chosen the categories for them based on what I know about them, I may have had Costa Rica and Countries Around the World in the same box. My 14 year old wants to be a day trader half the year and travel the other half of the year. It is her goal to visit every country in the world. She's been very interested in Costa Rica lately and we've decided to make a family trip there because of her interest. So, to her, those two things are very different.
Now that I think about it... she's been studying day trading with her father... MATH! Duh... what am I so worried about? :)
My 13 year old was a little more specific in her categories... she wants supplies to build a Dalek costume and more music to fill her insatiable need to learn even more songs on the guitar.
My 10 year old can't think of any boxes she wants and has spent the day deep cleaning the house... which is amazing to me because when we had chores, she was the hardest one to get to complete them.
Children are wonderful! I'm so sorry we wasted so much of their childhood in public school and then school at home.
Robin Bentley
>http://www.sandradodd.com/beginning
> Maybe look at that "everything in the whole wide world museum" book.
> If it's not on that page, could someone please find the notes?
which has the link to the book, near the bottom right.
Robin B.
Sandra Dodd
-=-
http://www.sandradodd.com/beginning
which has the link to the book, near the bottom right.-=-
Thank you, Robin.
-=-=-What are these boxes for? -=-
-=-I've been hearing "I'm bored" a lot in the past week or two,
especially last night when we lost internet for 4 hours. I had
recently read about strewing and thought this would be a perfect way
to strew their interests (as opposed to mine).-=-
Ah. Strewing isn't to stave off boredom.
Strewing is putting something interesting out in a place where it will
be seen, discovered, maybe picked up and played with, maybe
discussed. Something new and different. Not a subject or a category,
but a bowl of magnets, or a shell, or a bird's nest, or a pattern
puzzle, or a carving. Not math, but maybe cuisenaire rods, just
sitting in a box or, stacked into a pattern. (Not with all the papers
that came with them; not with instructions, but as a toy, a piece of
art.)
http://sandradodd.com/BoredNoMore
There are some ideas about boredom.
If the kids are very young, here are lots of ideas:
http://sandradodd.com/youngchildren
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.sandradodd.com/beginning
which has the link to the book, near the bottom right.-=-
Thank you, Robin.
-=-=-What are these boxes for? -=-
-=-I've been hearing "I'm bored" a lot in the past week or two,
especially last night when we lost internet for 4 hours. I had
recently read about strewing and thought this would be a perfect way
to strew their interests (as opposed to mine).-=-
Ah. Strewing isn't to stave off boredom.
Strewing is putting something interesting out in a place where it will
be seen, discovered, maybe picked up and played with, maybe
discussed. Something new and different. Not a subject or a category,
but a bowl of magnets, or a shell, or a bird's nest, or a pattern
puzzle, or a carving. Not math, but maybe cuisenaire rods, just
sitting in a box or, stacked into a pattern. (Not with all the papers
that came with them; not with instructions, but as a toy, a piece of
art.)
http://sandradodd.com/BoredNoMore
There are some ideas about boredom.
If the kids are very young, here are lots of ideas:
http://sandradodd.com/youngchildren
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-+++For someone who is inclined to have a mild math freakout, having
a box filled with things called "Math" seems to be a profoundly bad
idea.+++
-=-This made me laugh.-=-
It wasn't supposed to make anyone laugh.
-=- They chose the categories. I highly doubt my girls will ask for a
math box. -=-
The problem with any box, labelled in any way, before one is through
unschooling, is that the knowledge that all information is connected
could be obscured by those boxes.
-=-you and they both need more deschooling-=-
-=-Do you ever stop deschooling when you're unschooling? -=-
If the children were never in school, they won't have a continuing need.
Parents tend to have new bridges to cross as the children grow older,
and come to stages the parents might not realize contain blockages in
the peace and understanding of learning and growth and understanding.
A parent might be peachy keen with unschooling until the child is 13,
or 15, and then come to a place where the parent's memories are
blocked or clouded by some traumatic experience or pressured
expectations.
-=-What's the difference-=-
Deschooling involves recovery and rearrangement of beliefs and ideas.
Unschooling is living life in a rich way. That can't happen until the
deschooling takes all the detritus of school out of the way.
Both can be happening concurrently, but the unschooling won't be as
free, smooth or successful until the parent has really, truly
recovered from school. The abiding estimate (from before I came
around, and it's never been shown wrong) is one month per year of
school (or schoolishness or teaching or school at home). It doesn't
start until it stops stopping. If someone claims to be deschooling
and then buys a curriculum, that needs to start the timer again. One
month per year isnt' going to work. It needs to be thirteen or
sixteen or twenty months contiguous, conscious, intentional.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
There are links to several pages on deschooling there, on other sites.
Sandra
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a box filled with things called "Math" seems to be a profoundly bad
idea.+++
-=-This made me laugh.-=-
It wasn't supposed to make anyone laugh.
-=- They chose the categories. I highly doubt my girls will ask for a
math box. -=-
The problem with any box, labelled in any way, before one is through
unschooling, is that the knowledge that all information is connected
could be obscured by those boxes.
-=-you and they both need more deschooling-=-
-=-Do you ever stop deschooling when you're unschooling? -=-
If the children were never in school, they won't have a continuing need.
Parents tend to have new bridges to cross as the children grow older,
and come to stages the parents might not realize contain blockages in
the peace and understanding of learning and growth and understanding.
A parent might be peachy keen with unschooling until the child is 13,
or 15, and then come to a place where the parent's memories are
blocked or clouded by some traumatic experience or pressured
expectations.
-=-What's the difference-=-
Deschooling involves recovery and rearrangement of beliefs and ideas.
Unschooling is living life in a rich way. That can't happen until the
deschooling takes all the detritus of school out of the way.
Both can be happening concurrently, but the unschooling won't be as
free, smooth or successful until the parent has really, truly
recovered from school. The abiding estimate (from before I came
around, and it's never been shown wrong) is one month per year of
school (or schoolishness or teaching or school at home). It doesn't
start until it stops stopping. If someone claims to be deschooling
and then buys a curriculum, that needs to start the timer again. One
month per year isnt' going to work. It needs to be thirteen or
sixteen or twenty months contiguous, conscious, intentional.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
There are links to several pages on deschooling there, on other sites.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***Lego is great for having fun without paying attention to a single fact
or factoid attached to the blocks ... just finding colors, shapes and
sizes you want for making various buildings, people and vehicles to
play with. When I'm playing with Karl, he often asks for pieces
according to color and number of bumps.***
Legos are one of the things that really cementing counting in 4's or 6's or 2's, for Margaux. Legos also gave her that visual of multiplying the sides of a square to get the area. It happened while playing around. She counts everything, she makes patterns from everything, so it shouldn't have surprised me, but it did.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
or factoid attached to the blocks ... just finding colors, shapes and
sizes you want for making various buildings, people and vehicles to
play with. When I'm playing with Karl, he often asks for pieces
according to color and number of bumps.***
Legos are one of the things that really cementing counting in 4's or 6's or 2's, for Margaux. Legos also gave her that visual of multiplying the sides of a square to get the area. It happened while playing around. She counts everything, she makes patterns from everything, so it shouldn't have surprised me, but it did.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I've been hearing "I'm bored" a lot in the past week or two, especially last night when we lost internet for 4 hours. I had recently read about strewing and thought this would be a perfect way to strew their interests (as opposed to mine).***
This seems really normal in light of the fact that the kids are going through a deschooling process. While funboxes are designed to be fun, I'd suggest that making life fun with or without boxes is probably better. What else could you have done with 4 hrs of lost internet? If it was at night, you could have lit candles and played with the lights off, you could have gone on a walk, day or night, you could have built a fort or pulled out a box of fabric and scissors, or paper origami and airplane making.
***I used the word "categories" because I specifically wanted to avoid the word "subjects", which would make them think of school when my genuine and specific purpose was to provide them with more fun things to do. Maybe there's a better word than categories?***
If the whole wide world is open and you have a home designed around fun and learning, you won't need to define things into subjects. Having boxes of goodies can be a good idea. I have a box of crayons, one for pencils and one for pens and markers, I have several boxes of beads and bead making things, I have 4 big boxes full of fabric and drawers full of ribbon and scraps and fabric glue and thread and other oddities, I have a box full of paper of all different variety, I have a box full of paints and paint brushes and a box of dress up clothes, and a huge box of dolls, and a huge tub of stuffed animals. We have empty boxes for filling up or carrying things from one place to another. One time I took a big box and Chamille and I made a doll house out of it. You could simply have a pile of empty boxes and that alone might be fun and inspiring!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This seems really normal in light of the fact that the kids are going through a deschooling process. While funboxes are designed to be fun, I'd suggest that making life fun with or without boxes is probably better. What else could you have done with 4 hrs of lost internet? If it was at night, you could have lit candles and played with the lights off, you could have gone on a walk, day or night, you could have built a fort or pulled out a box of fabric and scissors, or paper origami and airplane making.
***I used the word "categories" because I specifically wanted to avoid the word "subjects", which would make them think of school when my genuine and specific purpose was to provide them with more fun things to do. Maybe there's a better word than categories?***
If the whole wide world is open and you have a home designed around fun and learning, you won't need to define things into subjects. Having boxes of goodies can be a good idea. I have a box of crayons, one for pencils and one for pens and markers, I have several boxes of beads and bead making things, I have 4 big boxes full of fabric and drawers full of ribbon and scraps and fabric glue and thread and other oddities, I have a box full of paper of all different variety, I have a box full of paints and paint brushes and a box of dress up clothes, and a huge box of dolls, and a huge tub of stuffed animals. We have empty boxes for filling up or carrying things from one place to another. One time I took a big box and Chamille and I made a doll house out of it. You could simply have a pile of empty boxes and that alone might be fun and inspiring!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/22/2010 11:11 AM, Jenny Cyphers wrote:
better spent playing with the kids or going somewhere interesting.
And - complaining about being bored IS a common aspect of deschooling.
They have to get used to taking initative, not having their time
structured for them. Those learning boxes would slow down that process
by structuring their time for them. Instead, talk together about "What
should we do today?" Make it a family decision that respects each kid's
individual interests.
-pam
> ***I've been hearing "I'm bored" a lot in the past week or two,I was thinking that the time mom spends making those boxes could be
> especially last night when we lost internet for 4 hours. I had
> recently read about strewing and thought this would be a perfect way
> to strew their interests (as opposed to mine).***
>
> This seems really normal in light of the fact that the kids are going
> through a deschooling process. While funboxes are designed to be fun,
> I'd suggest that making life fun with or without boxes is probably better.
better spent playing with the kids or going somewhere interesting.
And - complaining about being bored IS a common aspect of deschooling.
They have to get used to taking initative, not having their time
structured for them. Those learning boxes would slow down that process
by structuring their time for them. Instead, talk together about "What
should we do today?" Make it a family decision that respects each kid's
individual interests.
-pam
Amanda's Shoebox
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I've been trying to figure out why I've been receiving such a negative reaction. I think it's probably because most of you have very different things in your homes than we have.
For reasons I won't bore you with, before we moved into the house we currently live in a few months ago, we got rid of most of our things. We only kept what could fit in one of those storage pods.
We haven't really had many interesting things for the kids to do here except for books they don't want to read again, 4 or 5 boardgames, cards, very few craft supplies (cardboard, paper, markers, crayons, colored pencils, some googly eyes and pipe cleaners), the pool and their laptops.
Also, we had been participating in activities with our homeschooling group 2 or 3 times a week, but that's stopped because they don't do much during the summer.
Also, it may have appeared that the funboxes were a result of my mild math freakout (which wasn't really a freakout, but more like an hour of self doubt that was mostly resolved by reading, thinking and talking about the what and why of our reasons for unschooling), when in reality, the self doubt came after I was looking for things to fill their funboxes with.
Maybe if I had called them toy boxes, what I was trying to accomplish (providing a variety of interesting things for my kids to do), wouldn't have gotten such a negative reaction?
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you all are trying to say to me?
I appreciated the deschooling link. I learn something new each time I re-read your pages. I really appreciate all of the work you've put into your website, Sandra. Thanks!
~ Amanda
>I'm sorry if this came across in an offensive way. I didn't mean to imply that you were trying to be funny or even that I was laughing at what you said. It's just that, as I read that, I pictured a box labeled "Math" filled with workbooks and I just found it funny, because it seems pretty ridiculous for unschoolers to have a box like that (unless they have a child who would enjoy something like that of course). I wasn't laughing at you, but at the image in my head. I have a weird sense of humor I guess.
> -=-+++For someone who is inclined to have a mild math freakout, having
> a box filled with things called "Math" seems to be a profoundly bad
> idea.+++
>
> -=-This made me laugh.-=-
>
> It wasn't supposed to make anyone laugh.
I've been trying to figure out why I've been receiving such a negative reaction. I think it's probably because most of you have very different things in your homes than we have.
For reasons I won't bore you with, before we moved into the house we currently live in a few months ago, we got rid of most of our things. We only kept what could fit in one of those storage pods.
We haven't really had many interesting things for the kids to do here except for books they don't want to read again, 4 or 5 boardgames, cards, very few craft supplies (cardboard, paper, markers, crayons, colored pencils, some googly eyes and pipe cleaners), the pool and their laptops.
Also, we had been participating in activities with our homeschooling group 2 or 3 times a week, but that's stopped because they don't do much during the summer.
Also, it may have appeared that the funboxes were a result of my mild math freakout (which wasn't really a freakout, but more like an hour of self doubt that was mostly resolved by reading, thinking and talking about the what and why of our reasons for unschooling), when in reality, the self doubt came after I was looking for things to fill their funboxes with.
Maybe if I had called them toy boxes, what I was trying to accomplish (providing a variety of interesting things for my kids to do), wouldn't have gotten such a negative reaction?
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you all are trying to say to me?
I appreciated the deschooling link. I learn something new each time I re-read your pages. I really appreciate all of the work you've put into your website, Sandra. Thanks!
~ Amanda
Amanda's Shoebox
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
I also have to look at the result of the funboxes, which is their excitement to have some things they've been wanting to do for a while available for them. The thing about my girls is, they rarely ask for anything. It's difficult for me to get them to fill out "Christmas wishlists" and the like. I have to ask them what they want in order to be able to provide those things to them.
~ Amanda
>Those learning boxes would slow down that processMaybe this is where the negativity is coming from. They are not "learning" boxes. They are fun boxes filled with things they would like to have in the house to do... filled with supplies for projects they've been wanting to do (like my 13 year old's dalek costume). And I'm not structuring their time at all in any way. They can use the things in the boxes or not. There is no requirement to use anything from the boxes at all.
> by structuring their time for them. Instead, talk together about "What
> should we do today?" Make it a family decision that respects each kid's
> individual interests.
>
>
> -pam
>
I also have to look at the result of the funboxes, which is their excitement to have some things they've been wanting to do for a while available for them. The thing about my girls is, they rarely ask for anything. It's difficult for me to get them to fill out "Christmas wishlists" and the like. I have to ask them what they want in order to be able to provide those things to them.
~ Amanda
plaidpanties666
"Amanda's Shoebox" <amandasshoebox@...> wrote:
Does it seem negative to you? Sometimes lists like this take some time to get the "feel" of. One of the things that can help people deschool is to question a whole lot of the assumptions that seem schoolish since those assumptions can get in the way of understanding natural learning.
It wasn't really clear in your first post what the purpose of the boxes was, and with the "workbox" connection it could easily have been an attempt on your part to sneak "learning opportunities" into their days. Its still not even clear to me what's In the boxes - are they just "idea boxes" full of cards with lists of projects or are there things actually sorted into bins? Either way, its useful to think about why things fell into the categories they did - even with kids picking them! They're still deschooling, too, so if they seem to be thinking in terms of "subjects" it can help to mix things up a little - literally and figuratively. Organizing stuff can be a great chance to talk about how and why things are organized in various ways - what *is* a science experiement, for instance, and why is it different than a cooking experiement?
If the boxes are more idea boxes - like a kind of list - then it might be good to have a "box" of places to go and things to do. List of pools, parks, sights to see, stores to visit, restaurants to try... that sort of thing. Another good one would be a "movie" box - and even a movie marathon box where you could make groups like "everything with Robin Williams" or "everything about vampires".
---Meredith
>> I've been trying to figure out why I've been receiving such a negative reaction.************
Does it seem negative to you? Sometimes lists like this take some time to get the "feel" of. One of the things that can help people deschool is to question a whole lot of the assumptions that seem schoolish since those assumptions can get in the way of understanding natural learning.
>>> Maybe if I had called them toy boxes, what I was trying to accomplish (providing a variety of interesting things for my kids to do), wouldn't have gotten such a negative reaction?**************
It wasn't really clear in your first post what the purpose of the boxes was, and with the "workbox" connection it could easily have been an attempt on your part to sneak "learning opportunities" into their days. Its still not even clear to me what's In the boxes - are they just "idea boxes" full of cards with lists of projects or are there things actually sorted into bins? Either way, its useful to think about why things fell into the categories they did - even with kids picking them! They're still deschooling, too, so if they seem to be thinking in terms of "subjects" it can help to mix things up a little - literally and figuratively. Organizing stuff can be a great chance to talk about how and why things are organized in various ways - what *is* a science experiement, for instance, and why is it different than a cooking experiement?
If the boxes are more idea boxes - like a kind of list - then it might be good to have a "box" of places to go and things to do. List of pools, parks, sights to see, stores to visit, restaurants to try... that sort of thing. Another good one would be a "movie" box - and even a movie marathon box where you could make groups like "everything with Robin Williams" or "everything about vampires".
---Meredith
Amanda's Shoebox
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
After finishing those posts, I let her read the thread. She said I was overreacting and that probably you guys just didn't like the term "funboxes" and that maybe we should just get things when they want them and not make a big deal out of it.
I think it now makes sense to me what you all have been trying to help me see.
Oh, and the things inside the funboxes are actual things... craft supplies, sheets of music, patterns and material, etc.
~ Amanda
>I did kind of feel like I was being ganged up on. As I was typing my last 2 responses my 14 year old daughter commented on my expression as I was typing those responses. I briefly told her what I was responding to and that I felt like I was being ganged up on. She replied, "why not just tell them that we LIKE the funboxes?"
> "Amanda's Shoebox" <amandasshoebox@> wrote:
> >> I've been trying to figure out why I've been receiving such a negative reaction.
> ************
>
> Does it seem negative to you? Sometimes lists like this take some time to get the "feel" of. One of the things that can help people deschool is to question a whole lot of the assumptions that seem schoolish since those assumptions can get in the way of understanding natural learning.
>
> >>> Maybe if I had called them toy boxes, what I was trying to accomplish (providing a variety of interesting things for my kids to do), wouldn't have gotten such a negative reaction?
> **************
>
After finishing those posts, I let her read the thread. She said I was overreacting and that probably you guys just didn't like the term "funboxes" and that maybe we should just get things when they want them and not make a big deal out of it.
I think it now makes sense to me what you all have been trying to help me see.
Oh, and the things inside the funboxes are actual things... craft supplies, sheets of music, patterns and material, etc.
~ Amanda
Jenny Cyphers
***I've been trying to figure out why I've been receiving such a negative reaction. I think it's probably because most of you have very different things in your homes than we have.***
Hmmm, the reactions don't seem negative to me. It seems clear to me that you guys are in the midst of deschooling. That was my initial reaction even BEFORE I read that you'd only been at this for 4 months. There's something to the idea that fun should come in boxes that are categorized that is very schoolish.
The idea of a funbox sounds cool at first glance. It's like a treasure box or a treasure hunt maybe? However, when you really think about the whole concept of a funbox filled with categorized items, it brings up some underlying problems that won't mesh with unschooling. Take one funbox idea... a box full of Costa Rica for instance; how long will it take to compile such a box? What will go into it? Who decides?
If you have one or two kids that are interested in learning about Costa Rica, why not spend that time learning about Costa Rica? Why put it in a box? Once it's in a box, it's there, the idea all tied up in a little box, but really learning about Costa Rica is so much more than what could ever fit into a box. I could see a kid wanting to put Costa Rica treasures into a box as they learn about neat things and print out pictures and such.
My oldest did that when she was wanting a dog, before we had one, she spent many hours learning about dogs, compiling a picture album of dogs, naming them and creating stories around them. It wasn't something I facilitated other than to get her a binder and make sure she had printer paper and a working computer. I never suggested that she do this thing, it was all her idea that came from a real need to categorize all these dogs/potential pets.
It's not that funboxes aren't or couldn't be fun. They just seem a bit contrived. When you are really in the deschooling process, it's probably better to not do things that are not contrived. Spend time together, get out and do things, explore the world away from categories and boxes and subjects, step away from schoolish ways of doing things and thinking about things.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hmmm, the reactions don't seem negative to me. It seems clear to me that you guys are in the midst of deschooling. That was my initial reaction even BEFORE I read that you'd only been at this for 4 months. There's something to the idea that fun should come in boxes that are categorized that is very schoolish.
The idea of a funbox sounds cool at first glance. It's like a treasure box or a treasure hunt maybe? However, when you really think about the whole concept of a funbox filled with categorized items, it brings up some underlying problems that won't mesh with unschooling. Take one funbox idea... a box full of Costa Rica for instance; how long will it take to compile such a box? What will go into it? Who decides?
If you have one or two kids that are interested in learning about Costa Rica, why not spend that time learning about Costa Rica? Why put it in a box? Once it's in a box, it's there, the idea all tied up in a little box, but really learning about Costa Rica is so much more than what could ever fit into a box. I could see a kid wanting to put Costa Rica treasures into a box as they learn about neat things and print out pictures and such.
My oldest did that when she was wanting a dog, before we had one, she spent many hours learning about dogs, compiling a picture album of dogs, naming them and creating stories around them. It wasn't something I facilitated other than to get her a binder and make sure she had printer paper and a working computer. I never suggested that she do this thing, it was all her idea that came from a real need to categorize all these dogs/potential pets.
It's not that funboxes aren't or couldn't be fun. They just seem a bit contrived. When you are really in the deschooling process, it's probably better to not do things that are not contrived. Spend time together, get out and do things, explore the world away from categories and boxes and subjects, step away from schoolish ways of doing things and thinking about things.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 22, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Amanda's Shoebox wrote:
Hooray for you for listening to what she had to say and changing your
view.
Hearing kids and thinking about their thoughts that often aren't
fitting into the parent's world view is a big part of unschooling. :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> She said I was overreacting and that probably you guys just didn'tHooray for her for seeing it clearly!
> like the term "funboxes" and that maybe we should just get things
> when they want them and not make a big deal out of it.
>
> I think it now makes sense to me what you all have been trying to
> help me see.
Hooray for you for listening to what she had to say and changing your
view.
Hearing kids and thinking about their thoughts that often aren't
fitting into the parent's world view is a big part of unschooling. :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>I wouldn't call it negativity. Unschoolers are trying to point out
> Maybe this is where the negativity is coming from. They are not
> "learning" boxes. They are fun boxes filled with things they would
> like to have in the house to do... filled with supplies for projects
> they've been wanting to do (like my 13 year old's dalek costume).
> And I'm not structuring their time at all in any way. They can use
> the things in the boxes or not. There is no requirement to use
> anything from the boxes at all.
that there are words or concepts that can keep someone stuck in
"school-think." Words like "teach" "workboxes" can be softened into
"self-teaching" and "funboxes." Even "supplies" and "projects" are
schoolish terms. It may seem like semantics, but words do have
unconscious connotations and meanings.
Even if you're not structuring their time or requiring anything, when
you think and speak differently about what's happening and what you
do, it will help.
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/
I also like what Kelly Lovejoy says about the stages of unschooling:
http://sandradodd.com/kellylovejoy/stages
>So maybe instead of being the "funbox organizer," think of yourself as
> I also have to look at the result of the funboxes, which is their
> excitement to have some things they've been wanting to do for a
> while available for them.
a learning facilitator or partner by providing what they want for what
they want to do. Those things don't have to be in boxes, except maybe
for keeping stuff in one place to find again easily.
> The thing about my girls is, they rarely ask for anything. It'sMaybe you already give them all they need. Or maybe they're used to
> difficult for me to get them to fill out "Christmas wishlists" and
> the like. I have to ask them what they want in order to be able to
> provide those things to them.
>
being told what they *should* want in school. Perhaps it's a
personality thing. If not, you might find out more about what they
want as you deschool <g>.
Robin B.
plaidpanties666
<amandasshoebox@...> wrote:
There ya go!
I often organize things in boxes as a way to cut down on clutter - I'm a bit of a packrat so I have a lot of clutter ;) Sometimes its easier to group like things together so you can find them again... but its always interesting to me, when I'm digging through a box six months or more later, what I thought were "like things" at the time. Some of that is consistent - in my craft stuff, for instance, boxes tend to contain things that all go into one project. Its good for me to rummage in older "project" boxes from time to time and see what's stashed in there. Other times boxes get created as I'm cleaning, though, and what gets grouped together is more varied. So stencils, for example, sometimes get grouped with paper and other times with things like felt and foamies.
---Meredith
> maybe we should just get things when they want them and not make a big deal out of it.******************
There ya go!
I often organize things in boxes as a way to cut down on clutter - I'm a bit of a packrat so I have a lot of clutter ;) Sometimes its easier to group like things together so you can find them again... but its always interesting to me, when I'm digging through a box six months or more later, what I thought were "like things" at the time. Some of that is consistent - in my craft stuff, for instance, boxes tend to contain things that all go into one project. Its good for me to rummage in older "project" boxes from time to time and see what's stashed in there. Other times boxes get created as I'm cleaning, though, and what gets grouped together is more varied. So stencils, for example, sometimes get grouped with paper and other times with things like felt and foamies.
---Meredith
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
IF they are tired of the same books a trip to the library is a good thing. We go to the library at least once a week and get many
books!
If they need more games and toys I suggest going to yard sales, thrift stores and such and picking some new ones.
I go with my kids and always find new games and toys for as littel as 0.25 cents!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
books!
If they need more games and toys I suggest going to yard sales, thrift stores and such and picking some new ones.
I go with my kids and always find new games and toys for as littel as 0.25 cents!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/22/2010 1:09 PM, Amanda's Shoebox wrote:
don't need a set of fun boxes - you need a home with cool stuff in it.
There is something too pre-planned about this. Like a kid has to pull
out a box and now it is "countries of the world" time. What if they are
into sewing as part of making the costume and decide to sew a stuffed
animal panda and you look online for a pattern and find a live webcam on
the panda's at the zoo in China and decide to name the Panda a Chinese
name so you start looking for Chinese names and what they mean and that
leads to a discussion about superstitions and you start thinking of
superstitious sayings you've heard and you decide to play "Wise and
Otherwise" (board game based on sayings from countries all over the
world and ......" that is how unschooling works. You're boxing up the
fun into separate categories - the storage of things in boxes won't
hurt, but thinking about learning in this categorical way will slow
down the deschooling.
Some comments - maybe will hep you broaden your thinking on this:
sports (jiu jitsu) --- how does this fit into a box? Do they go to a
jiu jitsu studio or watch a video or ? We call it doing a sport, not
using a funbox.
games - again, how can they fit into a box, most unschoolers have a
games cupboard (or an entire games closet or games all over the house).
Again, we call it playing a game.
crafts (dalek costume) - we all probably have crafts materials in the
house, stored in boxes or somehow. They are our crafts boxes. And
keeping a box for all the stuff being used on that one costume seems
useful. The Dalek costume box.
music (guitar) - we have a lot of music - it is in different places in
the house depending on where it gets used. But we have a big basket full
of music called "the basket of music."
writing - paper? pens? stationary? notebooks? Don't most houses have
this kind of stuff - in desks or drawers? Why in a "funbox?"
Knitting - I keep my knitting supplies in tote bags. My daughter keeps
hers in boxes. Not "funboxes" but "my yarn and knitting stuff."
Crocheting - with the knitting stuff
Sewing - sewing basket?
Cooking - kitchen?
Baking - kitchen?
Science Experiments - generic school subject. What do you really mean?
Costa Rica - I have a box full of New York City related stuff - because
we took a trip there and did a lot of planning ahead. So - this box
makes sense to me.
Countries of the World - a school subject. Too broad, too generic. We're
watching every world cup soccer game. THAT is what "countries of the
world" means to me, right now.
-pam
> I think it now makes sense to me what you all have been trying to helpI'm not opposing being organized, more power to you on that!! But you
> me see.
>
> Oh, and the things inside the funboxes are actual things... craft
> supplies, sheets of music, patterns and material, etc.
don't need a set of fun boxes - you need a home with cool stuff in it.
There is something too pre-planned about this. Like a kid has to pull
out a box and now it is "countries of the world" time. What if they are
into sewing as part of making the costume and decide to sew a stuffed
animal panda and you look online for a pattern and find a live webcam on
the panda's at the zoo in China and decide to name the Panda a Chinese
name so you start looking for Chinese names and what they mean and that
leads to a discussion about superstitions and you start thinking of
superstitious sayings you've heard and you decide to play "Wise and
Otherwise" (board game based on sayings from countries all over the
world and ......" that is how unschooling works. You're boxing up the
fun into separate categories - the storage of things in boxes won't
hurt, but thinking about learning in this categorical way will slow
down the deschooling.
Some comments - maybe will hep you broaden your thinking on this:
sports (jiu jitsu) --- how does this fit into a box? Do they go to a
jiu jitsu studio or watch a video or ? We call it doing a sport, not
using a funbox.
games - again, how can they fit into a box, most unschoolers have a
games cupboard (or an entire games closet or games all over the house).
Again, we call it playing a game.
crafts (dalek costume) - we all probably have crafts materials in the
house, stored in boxes or somehow. They are our crafts boxes. And
keeping a box for all the stuff being used on that one costume seems
useful. The Dalek costume box.
music (guitar) - we have a lot of music - it is in different places in
the house depending on where it gets used. But we have a big basket full
of music called "the basket of music."
writing - paper? pens? stationary? notebooks? Don't most houses have
this kind of stuff - in desks or drawers? Why in a "funbox?"
Knitting - I keep my knitting supplies in tote bags. My daughter keeps
hers in boxes. Not "funboxes" but "my yarn and knitting stuff."
Crocheting - with the knitting stuff
Sewing - sewing basket?
Cooking - kitchen?
Baking - kitchen?
Science Experiments - generic school subject. What do you really mean?
Costa Rica - I have a box full of New York City related stuff - because
we took a trip there and did a lot of planning ahead. So - this box
makes sense to me.
Countries of the World - a school subject. Too broad, too generic. We're
watching every world cup soccer game. THAT is what "countries of the
world" means to me, right now.
-pam
k
I like the idea of having fun. And that's I think a solid idea that's
totally FOR unschooling. Fun supports any and all aspects of the
unschooling venture. I can see how come someone might like to turn
"workboxes" into "boxes o'fun!"... there's some good logic to that
focusing on fun. (And as Pam and others are saying, fun isn't just in
a box but in many places.)
Here's a blog post by an unschooling dad, Jeff Sabo, that wouldn't go
amiss this early in the game, I don't think, about how the dutifulness
of parenting can overshadow the fun for both parent and child. It's
called Parent, Unschool Thyself:
http://justabaldman.blogspot.com/2010/06/parent-unschool-thyself.html
I happen to think that realizing how important fun is is a huge part
of deschooling thyself.
~Katherine
totally FOR unschooling. Fun supports any and all aspects of the
unschooling venture. I can see how come someone might like to turn
"workboxes" into "boxes o'fun!"... there's some good logic to that
focusing on fun. (And as Pam and others are saying, fun isn't just in
a box but in many places.)
Here's a blog post by an unschooling dad, Jeff Sabo, that wouldn't go
amiss this early in the game, I don't think, about how the dutifulness
of parenting can overshadow the fun for both parent and child. It's
called Parent, Unschool Thyself:
http://justabaldman.blogspot.com/2010/06/parent-unschool-thyself.html
I happen to think that realizing how important fun is is a huge part
of deschooling thyself.
~Katherine
On 6/22/10, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> On 6/22/2010 1:09 PM, Amanda's Shoebox wrote:
>> I think it now makes sense to me what you all have been trying to help
>> me see.
>>
>> Oh, and the things inside the funboxes are actual things... craft
>> supplies, sheets of music, patterns and material, etc.
>
> I'm not opposing being organized, more power to you on that!! But you
> don't need a set of fun boxes - you need a home with cool stuff in it.
> There is something too pre-planned about this. Like a kid has to pull
> out a box and now it is "countries of the world" time. What if they are
> into sewing as part of making the costume and decide to sew a stuffed
> animal panda and you look online for a pattern and find a live webcam on
> the panda's at the zoo in China and decide to name the Panda a Chinese
> name so you start looking for Chinese names and what they mean and that
> leads to a discussion about superstitions and you start thinking of
> superstitious sayings you've heard and you decide to play "Wise and
> Otherwise" (board game based on sayings from countries all over the
> world and ......" that is how unschooling works. You're boxing up the
> fun into separate categories - the storage of things in boxes won't
> hurt, but thinking about learning in this categorical way will slow
> down the deschooling.
>
> Some comments - maybe will hep you broaden your thinking on this:
>
> sports (jiu jitsu) --- how does this fit into a box? Do they go to a
> jiu jitsu studio or watch a video or ? We call it doing a sport, not
> using a funbox.
> games - again, how can they fit into a box, most unschoolers have a
> games cupboard (or an entire games closet or games all over the house).
> Again, we call it playing a game.
> crafts (dalek costume) - we all probably have crafts materials in the
> house, stored in boxes or somehow. They are our crafts boxes. And
> keeping a box for all the stuff being used on that one costume seems
> useful. The Dalek costume box.
> music (guitar) - we have a lot of music - it is in different places in
> the house depending on where it gets used. But we have a big basket full
> of music called "the basket of music."
> writing - paper? pens? stationary? notebooks? Don't most houses have
> this kind of stuff - in desks or drawers? Why in a "funbox?"
> Knitting - I keep my knitting supplies in tote bags. My daughter keeps
> hers in boxes. Not "funboxes" but "my yarn and knitting stuff."
> Crocheting - with the knitting stuff
> Sewing - sewing basket?
> Cooking - kitchen?
> Baking - kitchen?
> Science Experiments - generic school subject. What do you really mean?
> Costa Rica - I have a box full of New York City related stuff - because
> we took a trip there and did a lot of planning ahead. So - this box
> makes sense to me.
> Countries of the World - a school subject. Too broad, too generic. We're
> watching every world cup soccer game. THAT is what "countries of the
> world" means to me, right now.
>
> -pam
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Deb Lewis
***I've been trying to figure out why I've been receiving such a negative reaction. ***
Because it's schooly. It's like something a kindergarten teacher might do thinking it was a cheery way to fill in some free time here or there. Like their treasure boxes where a good kid can go pick out a something or other. It seems contrived. Instead of just getting into something interesting, being interesting, doing something new, you made schooly boxes.
In the time you spent making those boxes you could have gone on a hike or gone to the pool, dug a big hole, set out for parts unknown on your bikes, wandered the mall, gone to the music store and played the drums.
If you need some ideas of things to offer your kids when they're looking to you for something fun to do, you can keep a little list in your desk drawer. If you can't easily think of something fun to do, go look at your list and then take off.
Don't make it like school. You don't need a fun box or a work box or whatever. Just make it like life.
***We haven't really had many interesting things for the kids to do here except for books they don't want to read again, 4 or 5 boardgames, cards, very few craft supplies (cardboard, paper, markers, crayons, colored pencils, some googly eyes and pipe cleaners), the pool and their laptops.***
Then maybe it's time to bring in some new stuff. If money is an issue consider it's yard sale season. There are thrift stores. There's the library full of books and movies and music to rent.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Because it's schooly. It's like something a kindergarten teacher might do thinking it was a cheery way to fill in some free time here or there. Like their treasure boxes where a good kid can go pick out a something or other. It seems contrived. Instead of just getting into something interesting, being interesting, doing something new, you made schooly boxes.
In the time you spent making those boxes you could have gone on a hike or gone to the pool, dug a big hole, set out for parts unknown on your bikes, wandered the mall, gone to the music store and played the drums.
If you need some ideas of things to offer your kids when they're looking to you for something fun to do, you can keep a little list in your desk drawer. If you can't easily think of something fun to do, go look at your list and then take off.
Don't make it like school. You don't need a fun box or a work box or whatever. Just make it like life.
***We haven't really had many interesting things for the kids to do here except for books they don't want to read again, 4 or 5 boardgames, cards, very few craft supplies (cardboard, paper, markers, crayons, colored pencils, some googly eyes and pipe cleaners), the pool and their laptops.***
Then maybe it's time to bring in some new stuff. If money is an issue consider it's yard sale season. There are thrift stores. There's the library full of books and movies and music to rent.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lalow66
I have picked up lots of great games at the salvation army for 95 cents each.
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
> IF they are tired of the same books a trip to the library is a good thing. We go to the library at least once a week and get many
> books!
>
> If they need more games and toys I suggest going to yard sales, thrift stores and such and picking some new ones.
> I go with my kids and always find new games and toys for as littel as 0.25 cents!
>
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
aldq75
>>>>>If you can't easily think of something fun to do, go look at your list and then take off.<<<<<I make this type of list to remind myself of possibilities for activities during inclement weather. If I see something that looks intriguing in the newspaper or a message board, I add it to the list. Sometimes we just really need a change of scenery instead of repeatedly going to our favorite places. I also makes lists of new places to explore when we move. They are good reminders for a scatterbrained mama :)
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], "Deb Lewis" <d.lewis@...> wrote:
>
> ***I've been trying to figure out why I've been receiving such a negative reaction. ***
>
> Because it's schooly. It's like something a kindergarten teacher might do thinking it was a cheery way to fill in some free time here or there. Like their treasure boxes where a good kid can go pick out a something or other. It seems contrived. Instead of just getting into something interesting, being interesting, doing something new, you made schooly boxes.
>
> In the time you spent making those boxes you could have gone on a hike or gone to the pool, dug a big hole, set out for parts unknown on your bikes, wandered the mall, gone to the music store and played the drums.
>
> If you need some ideas of things to offer your kids when they're looking to you for something fun to do, you can keep a little list in your desk drawer. If you can't easily think of something fun to do, go look at your list and then take off.
>
> Don't make it like school. You don't need a fun box or a work box or whatever. Just make it like life.
>
> ***We haven't really had many interesting things for the kids to do here except for books they don't want to read again, 4 or 5 boardgames, cards, very few craft supplies (cardboard, paper, markers, crayons, colored pencils, some googly eyes and pipe cleaners), the pool and their laptops.***
>
> Then maybe it's time to bring in some new stuff. If money is an issue consider it's yard sale season. There are thrift stores. There's the library full of books and movies and music to rent.
>
> Deb Lewis
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm sorry if this came across in an offensive way. I didn't mean to
imply that you were trying to be funny or even that I was laughing at
what you said. It's just that, as I read that, I pictured a box
labeled "Math" filled with workbooks and I just found it funny,
because it seems pretty ridiculous for unschoolers to have a box like
that (unless they have a child who would enjoy something like that of
course). I wasn't laughing at you, but at the image in my head. I have
a weird sense of humor I guess.-=-
"Ridiculous." Please avoid that word on this list in any context.
"Ridiculous" is as bad as "this made me laugh," and for the same reason.
Any word that is no more than an insult should be avoided, please.
If you are using such words without realizing it, that would be an
excellent thing to watch out for. There are some toxic messages.
"Stupid," "ridiculous," and LOL in response to anyone's volunteer time
spent trying to help other people have happier lives are cold, at best.
-=-Maybe if I had called them toy boxes, what I was trying to
accomplish (providing a variety of interesting things for my kids to
do), wouldn't have gotten such a negative reaction?
-=-Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you all are trying to say to me?-
=-
I think you're misunderstanding. And you're considering people
explanations to be "a negative reaction."
If by a positive reaction you were thinking sweet-to-bland praise or
agreement, I know lots of people expect that's what they'll get from
other moms on the internet. I have a collection of such messages here:
http://sandradodd.com/support
-=-I appreciated the deschooling link. I learn something new each time
I re-read your pages. I really appreciate all of the work you've put
into your website, Sandra. Thanks!-=-
You're welcome.
Appreciation is cool. Please watch any use of "made me laugh" or
"ridiculous," not just on this list, but in ANY conversation with your
children, your friends, relatives, strangers... They're not
informational. If you want to say something, think as clearly as
possible and state it in your own words, and in ways that will help
others who are reading or hearing.
Thanks,
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
imply that you were trying to be funny or even that I was laughing at
what you said. It's just that, as I read that, I pictured a box
labeled "Math" filled with workbooks and I just found it funny,
because it seems pretty ridiculous for unschoolers to have a box like
that (unless they have a child who would enjoy something like that of
course). I wasn't laughing at you, but at the image in my head. I have
a weird sense of humor I guess.-=-
"Ridiculous." Please avoid that word on this list in any context.
"Ridiculous" is as bad as "this made me laugh," and for the same reason.
Any word that is no more than an insult should be avoided, please.
If you are using such words without realizing it, that would be an
excellent thing to watch out for. There are some toxic messages.
"Stupid," "ridiculous," and LOL in response to anyone's volunteer time
spent trying to help other people have happier lives are cold, at best.
-=-Maybe if I had called them toy boxes, what I was trying to
accomplish (providing a variety of interesting things for my kids to
do), wouldn't have gotten such a negative reaction?
-=-Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you all are trying to say to me?-
=-
I think you're misunderstanding. And you're considering people
explanations to be "a negative reaction."
If by a positive reaction you were thinking sweet-to-bland praise or
agreement, I know lots of people expect that's what they'll get from
other moms on the internet. I have a collection of such messages here:
http://sandradodd.com/support
-=-I appreciated the deschooling link. I learn something new each time
I re-read your pages. I really appreciate all of the work you've put
into your website, Sandra. Thanks!-=-
You're welcome.
Appreciation is cool. Please watch any use of "made me laugh" or
"ridiculous," not just on this list, but in ANY conversation with your
children, your friends, relatives, strangers... They're not
informational. If you want to say something, think as clearly as
possible and state it in your own words, and in ways that will help
others who are reading or hearing.
Thanks,
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-So maybe instead of being the "funbox organizer," think of yourself
as
a learning facilitator or partner by providing what they want for what
they want to do. Those things don't have to be in boxes, except maybe
for keeping stuff in one place to find again easily.-=-
I like boxes. I have a box of handkerchiefs, a box of scarves, a box
of business cards, one of post cards, one of chess pieces. One of
decks of cards. One of paints, one of pencils. LOTS of boxes. Love
my boxes.
I wasn't objecting to boxes at all.
I think for a first-year unschooler, a box of math stuff could be
cool! A box of "history stuff" (time lines, antique things, family
tree, pamphlet on local history, coloring book of historic costumes)
could be a stepping stone from schoolishness to full unschooling.
If, on this list, though, people say "great idea!" then people might
put it on a list of things to do for the next fifteen years, and it's
not the greatest idea for unschoolers to separate math from history,
nor either of them from other things.
So as an idea, it's great. As a longterm unschooling tool, not so
great. As a first step toward restructuring learning, it's not
terrible.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
as
a learning facilitator or partner by providing what they want for what
they want to do. Those things don't have to be in boxes, except maybe
for keeping stuff in one place to find again easily.-=-
I like boxes. I have a box of handkerchiefs, a box of scarves, a box
of business cards, one of post cards, one of chess pieces. One of
decks of cards. One of paints, one of pencils. LOTS of boxes. Love
my boxes.
I wasn't objecting to boxes at all.
I think for a first-year unschooler, a box of math stuff could be
cool! A box of "history stuff" (time lines, antique things, family
tree, pamphlet on local history, coloring book of historic costumes)
could be a stepping stone from schoolishness to full unschooling.
If, on this list, though, people say "great idea!" then people might
put it on a list of things to do for the next fifteen years, and it's
not the greatest idea for unschoolers to separate math from history,
nor either of them from other things.
So as an idea, it's great. As a longterm unschooling tool, not so
great. As a first step toward restructuring learning, it's not
terrible.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- Take one funbox idea... a box full of Costa Rica for instance; how
long will it take to compile such a box? What will go into it? Who
decides? -=-
I have an Australia box and an England box, myself. Not for my kids;
for me.
I might need to have a Maui box, after I get home and go through my
stuff. Or at least a Maui folder. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
long will it take to compile such a box? What will go into it? Who
decides? -=-
I have an Australia box and an England box, myself. Not for my kids;
for me.
I might need to have a Maui box, after I get home and go through my
stuff. Or at least a Maui folder. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lalow66
"
i had a boyfriend in college that actually had a file/folder for each of his ex girlfriends..
> I might need to have a Maui box, after I get home and go through my"
> stuff. Or at least a Maui folder. <g>
>
> Sandra
i had a boyfriend in college that actually had a file/folder for each of his ex girlfriends..