Nanci Kuykendall

>You're ALWAYS going to feel like other people don't
>understand what you are going through - because you
>have very explosive, dramatic, intense, passionate
>children. Some people have easygoing, mild-tempered,
>and even compliant children <G>. They think that
>because their son has a little meltdown once in a
>while, when he's tired or hungry, that that is all
>that you're dealing with.

Thank you so much for this post Pam. Your posts are
always so insightful. I have one of each of the types
above. Both my boys are intelligent and sensative,
but one is extremely high strung, perfectionist,
impatient, obsessive, and explosive and the other is
mellow and patient and easy going (like his Daddy..can
you guess who my oldest is more like...? :-/)

>Some people will always be judgmental about how
>you've parented your kids - because the kids will
>probably always be temperamentally like this and
>some people are really uncomfortable around super
>strong emotions and they'll blame YOU for not >having
"tamed" your kids.

This is so true, and I am learning to have a thick
skin and not care what other people think of us. It
is funny the effect that practice at this has had on
us, and on me especially. We get more and more
outside the box and more able to follow our personal
dreams, regardless of what others think about our
goals or directions we are moving. Our families think
we are weird, expecially mine. I love it.

>So - that's my first advice -- don't compare your
>kids to others and don't think you're screwing up
>just because the kids are like this.

This is good advice no matter what your kids are like.
Don't compare your kids to others, don't compare your
family to others, don't even compare yourself to
others. It falls for us under the category of te evil
E word (or E-Vile as we say around here)
"Expectations." Blech. Sometimes though, with my
"spirited" son, it is hard to remember not to expect
him to be calm and patient and reasonable.

>You also have to be sure you don't take on the burden
>of making him be happy about it -- you do your part
>and then let him be happy or unhappy as he wishes.

This is important advice too. It's something I have
to work to remember sometimes, as a child of an
alcoholic home who is used to trying to please
everyone. I can't be responsible for the happiness or
feelings of others. I can do my best and try to meet
them in the middle, and the rest is up to them and not
my "fault." One phrase that I like is "This Space Not
for Rent" or "No Vacancy" to remind me not to "rent"
space to others in my head, or in other words, not to
make THEIR problems into MY problems by taking
posession of and responsibility for them.

Nanci K.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://sports.yahoo.com

homeschoolmd

--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., Nanci Kuykendall <aisliin@y...> wrote:
> "Expectations." Blech. Sometimes though, with my
> "spirited" son, it is hard to remember not to expect
> him to be calm and patient and reasonable.

I agree that our children need to be given the freedom to develop
their own expectations and to be loved and supported for their
uniqueness. Their spirited personalities are unique and are to be
cherished. However, when it comes to parenting, I feel it is our job
to help them develop patience and to learn to be reasonable? This is
not to say that anything that has been written suggests differently,
I just wanted to add that thought.

I the tough part is knowing when a child's behavior is normal for a
child with a spirited personality and when the child is dealing with
more. If I had chalked Virginia's unreasonable behavior up to an
intense personality, which she has, our household today would be very
different.

Virginia becomes very aggressive, extremely unreasonable and
billigerent when she has eaten anything with artificial colorings,
flavorings and some preservatives. This behavior started when she
was 5 and we didn't get it figured out until she was 7.

Pat

Nanci Kuykendall

>I agree that our children need to be given the
>freedom to develop their own expectations and to be
>loved and supported for their uniqueness. Their
>spirited personalities are unique and are to be
>cherished. However, when it comes to parenting, I
>feel it is our job to help them develop patience and
>to learn to be reasonable?

Good point Pat, and we should not assume that this is
understood as a "given" or a no brainer. Like Sandra
pointed out in her thread on breastfeeding modesty,
some people need a rock over the head in order to GET
what may seem common sense to others. OF COURSE, our
job as parents includes teaching our children to have
patience, respect for others, tolerance and reasonable
behavior. This is MORE important for kids who are
more likely to have trouble in those areas, and we
spend a lot of time trying to help Thomas in those
areas, where he struggles often.

...>the tough part is knowing when a child's behavior
>is normal for a child with a spirited personality and
>when the child is dealing with more.

This allergy aspect is true in our house too, that
Thomas has a lot of allergies and when he is
struggling with a reaction he sometimes gets
hyperactive to the point of mania and hurting others
in the house just from playing, or from
anger/agressive behavior.

Tonight for example, Thomas is having a reaction (we
don't know from what) and is slightly rashy, but has
been a bundle of crazed energy all evening. Finally
this evening he gave his father a black eye by ramming
his head into him (he has a very hard head) and we
finally had to physically restrain him until his
antihistamines kicked in and he began to calm down.
He was not mad, or trying to hurt his father, just
could not calm down and was literally bouncing around
like Tigger.

Nanci K.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

homeschoolmd

--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., Nanci Kuykendall <aisliin@y...> wrote:
> Tonight for example, Thomas is having a reaction (we
> don't know from what) and is slightly rashy, but has
> been a bundle of crazed energy all evening. Finally
> this evening he gave his father a black eye by ramming
> his head into him (he has a very hard head) and we
> finally had to physically restrain him until his
> antihistamines kicked in and he began to calm down.
> He was not mad, or trying to hurt his father, just
> could not calm down and was literally bouncing around
> like Tigger.
>
> Nanci K.


I know what you are going through Nanci(with an i). Life was much
more difficult before we figured out what was causing Virginia's mood
swings. She can now tell me if she has eaten something that affects
her. She knows what it feels like to be affected. Usually she can
figure out what it was that caused it. Sometimes they don't list all
the ingredients on nutrition labels and that causes problems.

To a lesser degree, Virginia has trouble with her blood sugar. That
is always fun when she needs to eat and starts up. She can't think
right and doesn't want to eat anything. It is hard but I've learned
I can't help her at those times. She has to handle this on her own.
Anything I suggest for food will be rejected but she will keep
badgering and badgering me because she can't decide what to eat.

I wish our environment was not so toxic for kids. The food dyes that
Virginia can't have are petroleum based. I can't believe that is the
best substance to use for food dyes. There are so many natural dyes -
why petroleum?

The food manufacturers probably get a kick back for all the
ridalin(sp?)the drug companies sell.

When someone in the family is sensitive the whole family suffers.
Poor Allison must feel her sister gets all the attention when we are
struggling with Virginia's moods.

Pat

[email protected]

<< I wish our environment was not so toxic for kids. >>

Compared to any other environment of this culture before this time it's not.
Infant mortality in the early 20th century, children dying of flu and the
various fevers (scarlet, rheumatic) and polio and such, or just dying of no
antibiotics, or falling into fires, or being killed by farm machinery or
factory machinery or being killed by an adult who hit him too hard because
the culture thought hitting kids was necessary is worse by such magnitude
that we who have discovered a way to be home with our kids observing them
closely, with flush toilets, hot running water and telephones nearby should
remember the past so we can appreciate now.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/25/02 11:20:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> Compared to any other environment of this culture before this time it's not.
>
> Infant mortality in the early 20th century, children dying of flu and the
> various fevers (scarlet, rheumatic) and polio and such, or just dying of no
>
> antibiotics, or falling into fires, or being killed by farm machinery or
> factory machinery or being killed by an adult who hit him too hard because
> the culture thought hitting kids was necessary is worse by such magnitude
> that we who have discovered a way to be home with our kids observing them
> closely, with flush toilets, hot running water and telephones nearby
> should
> remember the past so we can appreciate now.
>

This is so true. There's a really good book I found in the kids' section at
Borders called The Way Things Never Were: The Truth About the "Good Old Days"
by Norman H. Finkelstein that dispels the myths about things being "so much
better" back in the day. It's a fun book and useful for great discussions
with kids and adults alike.

~Ginny


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/25/02 9:34:18 AM, Wings2Fly@... writes:

<< This is so true. There's a really good book I found in the kids' section
at
Borders called The Way Things Never Were: The Truth About the "Good Old Days"
by Norman H. Finkelstein that dispels the myths about things being "so much
better" back in the day. It's a fun book and useful for great discussions
with kids and adults alike.
>>

At the end of the biography of Chang and Eng, 19th century Siamese twins
(those the name was coined for), it lists the children and which died in
infancy. Several, I think. And these families weren't poor or ignorant, as
far as I could tell; the dads weren't fundamentalist Christians trying to
impress the neighbors; the children all had a nearby aunt and a dad and a
half--adult witnesses to say "That's not good" if something wasn't safe or
good.

One of my grandmothers had stillborn twins. It could happen still. But a
home birth in West Texas in the 1920's might have been problematical with
firstborn twins.

My other grandmother lost a baby in his first day. "He was nursing, rared
back, shuddered and died," she said. And a fifteen year old son to a fever,
in the house, with all the other kids gathered around watching him die. And
two of the younger kids had rheumatic fever and didn't die. My mom's ring
and little fingers were bent from childhood, and her brother Joe Paul's too.
They did live to cause trouble, though; Joe Paul died last month after at
least two stints in prison and teaching lots of teens to be burglars and glue
sniffers (my cousin, his niece, among them, which is why I know) and my mom's
still drinking and gambling and smoking and complaining.

It wasn't such a nice time for lots of reasons. We have advantages out the
wazoo.

Sandra

callymom2000

<<<<<Compared to any other environment of this culture before this
time it's not.
Infant mortality in the early 20th century, children dying of flu and
the
various fevers (scarlet, rheumatic) and polio and such, or just dying
of no
antibiotics, or falling into fires, or being killed by farm machinery
or
factory machinery or being killed by an adult who hit him too hard
because.....>>>>


Here...Here....I totally agree with this. My great grandmother has
told me enough stories for me to realize just how safe this time and
place is for adults and children alike. No such thing as a totally
risk free enviroment. I for one am grateful for the options and
little things like, washing machines, diswashers, antibiotics, soap
that is not made of lye, indoor kitchens that are relativley safe.....

I thought petroleum was natural? Though I do not relish the idea of
eating it :-)

Cally

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/25/02 11:49:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> It wasn't such a nice time for lots of reasons. We have advantages out the
> wazoo.
>

From the book I mentioned in my previous post --

In the 1950's newspapers and magazines regularly printed frightening
photographs of polio-stricken children encased in the iron lungs that
artificially maintained their breathing...
...Today's medical practices could have proven useful to polio patients of
the 1950's. The confining iron lung would have been replaced by a simple
plastic tube connected to a small portable ventilator. Physical therapy
techniques could have prevented the contraction of muscles....

Even as polio became only a bad memory, other health threats haunted
Americans. Measles, mumps and scarlet fever were scourges of childhood.
Ninety percent of all children prior to the mid-1960's "caught the measles."


Tuberculosis was also very common. (My mil spent a couple of *years* in a
sanitarium, separated form her parents and her family, when she was only four
years old because she had TB. The family did not own a car, so her parents
couldn't even visit her frequently. At her age, pre-reading, letters had to
be simple, phone calls were long distance and very expensive, it was
undoubtedly traumatic. )

Today's government programs ensure that most if not all children have access
to medical care. In 1965, 20% of children whose family income was below the
poverty level had never been examined by a doctor. By 1970, that number had
dropped to 8%.

In the 1940's and 50's, factory smokestacks (I remember the black, thick
smoke emanating from these) and auto emissions polluted the air. Since the
environmental laws passed in the 70's smog in the US has been reduced by 1/3
and invisible pollutants (such as acid rain) have been cut nearly 50%.
Rivers were polluted. Fishing on Lake Erie was banned and dumped factory
waste in Ohio caused the Cuyahoga River to catch fire. Today, twice as many
lakes and streams are safe for fishing and swimming as were in 1970.

Homes are less toxic today. Asbestos and/or formaldehyde used to be found in
insulation. Radon gas fro decaying radium in the soil beneath basements can
be cancerous. Gardens were sprayed with DDT -- a powder originally used to
disinfect soldiers of body lice. Trucks and airplanes sprayed clouds of DDT
over fields and homes.

Between 1942 and 1953, Love canal in Niagra Falls NY was legally used as a
dumping site for chemical toxic waste, over 21 tons during that period of
time. In the 50's the dump was closed and capped and a school was built on
top of the capped land. Ultimately the clay cap was disrupted and the waste
went to the water supply. Kids came home with skin rashes and chemical burns
after playing outside. Areas of vegetation died without any apparent reason.
Foul-smelling liquids bubbled out of the ground. There was a higher than
normal rate of birth defects, leukemia, and mental retardation. It turned
out that over400 chemicals were identified in the canal, some in levels
exceeding five thousand times the maximum safe level. Two hundred and thirty
six families had to leave their now worthless homes to face uncertain health
futures.

During the 50's and 60's the government tested nuclear bombs in Nevada and
New Mexico. Over 2,000 tests have been conducted all around the world.
Areas surrounding test sites had high rates of birth defects and
cancer-related illnesses from the radioactive clouds that drift above areas
after the detonations. Radioactive fallout from the tests were ingested
through the air and the food over the entire country. The nation's milk
supply had been contaminated by strontium 90 fallout from hydrogen bomb
explosions. Studies in 1983 revealed that all Americans received at least
some radiation fallout during that period. People living closest to or
directly downwind of the blast sites were heavily exposed. Radioactive
materials fell on farms as far away as New York State -- absorbed by crops,
farm animals and into the earth. According to a study done in 1997,
Americans were exposed to varying levels of radioactive iodine 131 for two
months following each of the ninety atomic tests in Nevada during the 50's
and 60's, radiation extended beyond the test site and was detected as far
away as New England and the Northwest. Radioactive iodine accumulates in the
thyroid gland and children, because they drink more milk than adults (and
apparently it likes milk) got 3-7 times more than the average dose of
radiation because of the milk consumption.

Between 1949 and 1969, the US Army released bacteria and chemical agents in
major American cities including New York, San Francisco, and Washington, DC
to simulate chemical and biological warfare. A number of residents of those
cities later reported unexplainable illnesses and birth-related problems.

Egads. I could go on and on.

~Ginny


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sharon Rudd

A little over 20 years ago my boys got an impetigo
infection starting in tick bites that wouldn't go
away, so we went to the doctor. Our doctor (in
Tallahassee, I lived about 30 miles away outside of
Sopchoppy) presicribed some anribiotics, told me to
kill the dogs and move. Huh? I said but I couldn't.
He said at least give the dogs away. Huh? He said then
the problem wouldn't be his patient's. Then he asked
"Why did you move to the country, anyway?" I
explained that we wanted the idyllic country life. His
reply, as he kicked the examining room door shut was
"God dammit Woman!! Let me tell you about the idyllic
country life!! My father before me was a country
doctor in rural South Georgia!!!" then he told me
about it. He should be close to or in his 80's now.
My older boys still use his services. We didn't move
or shoot the dogs either.

My sister's grandfather was a sharecropper in N Ga.
After 8 (living) children my step-father's mother died
in her early 40's of exhaustion.

Bet your mother has some stories to tell, too, Sandra.

Sharon of the Swamp

--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> << I wish our environment was not so toxic for kids.
> >>
>
> Compared to any other environment of this culture
> before this time it's not.
> Infant mortality in the early 20th century,
> children dying of flu and the
> various fevers (scarlet, rheumatic) and polio and
> such, or just dying of no
> antibiotics, or falling into fires, or being killed
> by farm machinery or
> factory machinery or being killed by an adult who
> hit him too hard because
> the culture thought hitting kids was necessary is
> worse by such magnitude
> that we who have discovered a way to be home with
> our kids observing them
> closely, with flush toilets, hot running water and
> telephones nearby should
> remember the past so we can appreciate now.
>
> Sandra
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

callymom2000

<<<<<< I wish our environment was not so toxic for kids.
> >>


I thought of something that I am sure has improved the lives of
millions. That great and wonderful invetion. The LOOM! Man... I
think of how my daughters and I would be spending free time (ha) if
there where no such invention. We most likley would be working real
hard for what ONE(!) outfit a year. Plus....I would ALWAYS be
pregnant. My greatgrand mother had 18 children nursed them all then
died in her 40's of breast cancer and exhaustion no doubt. We would
be churning butter, plucking chickens, wishing for shoes, boiling
water(brought in from the outside) for that annual event of a bath,
popping critters (fleas chiggers ect.)that shared our beds made from
what buffalo fur? Oh!.......no thanks, I love this time
and place, plastic and all!

Cally

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/25/02 10:42:02 AM, Wings2Fly@... writes:

<< During the 50's and 60's the government tested nuclear bombs in Nevada and
New Mexico. >>

40's in New Mexico too.

Cindy

Wings2Fly@... wrote:
>
> Gardens were sprayed with DDT -- a powder originally used to
> disinfect soldiers of body lice. Trucks and airplanes sprayed clouds of DDT
> over fields and homes.
>

Gardens are still sprayed with DDT - just not in this country. Our
chemical companies make it to sell to poorer nations, like Mexico.
It's still killing animals here since migratory animals don't know
to by-pass the DDT-using countries.

--

Cindy Ferguson
crma@...

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/25/02 11:28:22 AM, scenichillhomeschool@...
writes:

<< We would
be churning butter, plucking chickens, >>

I cannot read today, but it's making for a very amusing morning.

I read it "pickling chickens."

homeschoolmd

Everyone has made many good points about the improvements that have
been made over the years and I *am* very thankful for the life I have
with my family.

Many people in past generations were also thankful for the
improvements that they benefited from even though these were times we
see as having been so horrible.

I don't understand why so many children need to be medicated. What
is causing an increase in ADD, ADHD and bipolar disorder. Why are so
many children and adults on Prozac and anti-anxiety medication?
Maybe in 20, 30 or 40 years these next generations will look back at
our lives today and be glad they didn't have to live the way we live.

I hope all generations are happy with what they have. I also hope
those working toward improving our lives will continue to do so.

Pat

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/25/02 1:51:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
homeschoolmd@... writes:


> I don't understand why so many children need to be medicated. What
> is causing an increase in ADD, ADHD and bipolar disorder. Why are so
> many children and adults on Prozac and anti-anxiety medication?
>

Radioactive fallout? Chemicals leeching into the soil and water supplies?
Hormones and antibiotics and such given to livestock?

I think it's clear that most children *don't* need to be medicated and that a
lot of what passes for ADD/ADHD is simply what happens when a child is forced
into a system that is counter to his temperament/personality/gifts/talents.
For example, in teens it has been shown that their bodies not only need
additional sleep for growth, for it is during sleep that the human growth
hormone is released, but also they undergo a kind of metabolic internal
timeclock shift that keeps them awake to a later hour. But high schools
routinely start as early as 7:00 a.m. Why? These kids need sleep and
without it they suffer from depression, agitation, loss of focus, all kinds
of stuff. So instead of moving back the time school starts for teens, they
label them, medicate them, and stigmatize them.

~Ginny


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/25/02 11:51:40 AM, homeschoolmd@... writes:

<< What
is causing an increase in ADD, ADHD >>

school

<<and bipolar disorder.>>

The definition of it. The label itself allows more people to be marked with
the label, or to say "That sounds like me!"

<<Why are so
many children and adults on Prozac and anti-anxiety medication? >>>>

Because they exist!

Nobody drank coffee before it was discovered. Nobody drank Dr Pepper before
it was invented.

Those things are progress. When people got depressed years ago they were
told to pray about it. When people were hyperactive years ago, they just did
the laundry faster, or build more fences, or rode horses into the wilderness
and killed something.

Our society is set up so that there are sometimes not outlets for normal
biochemical differences.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/25/02 2:17:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> Our society is set up so that there are sometimes not outlets for normal
> biochemical differences.
>

Nor tolerance.

~Ginny


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Mowery Family

My husbands grandmother has stories that would curl your toes. Heck Joe
even remembers when they got an inside toilet in the late 1960s.

Grandma takes me for rides when we are back visiting, she tells me wonderful
stories of who lived where, who died from what. She gave birth to her first
daughter, alone, in a tar paper/wood shack in the mountains of West
Virginia - a pump inside for running water and an outhouse - the wind would
whistle in between the slats of wood. Her husband had gone for help and
Joe's aunt was born before anyone got there. She bore five children at home
and three in the hospital. Her husband was in WW2 and was MIA for almost 2
years. This woman can can, cook, bake, make clothes, chop wood - you name
it. By no means does she pine for the good old days. She likes being able
to buy meat without killing and cleaning the animal, she likes soap from the
store, she makes handmade goods still because that is what she can afford
and it is important to her to continue to be independent. She cans and
freezes her veggies cause it costs too dern much to drive over the mountain
and pay big store prices(she still lives on the mountain). Grandma was a
widow at 31, she has buried parents, children, a husband, and grandchildren.
When she makes a statement such as you don't know how good you have it - she
is not intending to be condescending, it is the truth. Personally, I think
we should all (including children) be reminded of how good we have it, a
reality check of sorts.

Joe has some stories too, some of his childhood and others from being in the
military for 12 years - most he cares not to share.

sistakammi

Sharon Rudd

Where do out of season veggies come from?

Sharon of the Swamp

> Gardens are still sprayed with DDT - just not in
> this country. Our
> chemical companies make it to sell to poorer
> nations, like Mexico.
> It's still killing animals here since migratory
> animals don't know
> to by-pass the DDT-using countries.
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

Sharon Rudd

I was lucky. I was not fertile while nursing. I would
have been unable to have 18 children before age 40,
unless some of them were ready made, that was the
case, often enough. Two or three women would get worn
out on one family.

Sharon of the Swamp


--- callymom2000 <scenichillhomeschool@...>
wrote:
> <<<<<< I wish our environment was not so toxic for
> kids.
> > >>
>
>
> I thought of something that I am sure has improved
> the lives of
> millions. That great and wonderful invetion. The
> LOOM! Man... I
> think of how my daughters and I would be spending
> free time (ha) if
> there where no such invention. We most likley would
> be working real
> hard for what ONE(!) outfit a year. Plus....I would
> ALWAYS be
> pregnant. My greatgrand mother had 18 children
> nursed them all then
> died in her 40's of breast cancer and exhaustion no
> doubt. We would
> be churning butter, plucking chickens, wishing for
> shoes, boiling
> water(brought in from the outside) for that annual
> event of a bath,
> popping critters (fleas chiggers ect.)that shared
> our beds made from
> what buffalo fur? Oh!.......no thanks, I love this
> time
> and place, plastic and all!
>
> Cally
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

[email protected]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:49:09 -0800 (PST) Sharon Rudd
<bearspawprint@...> writes:

> Where do out of season veggies come from?

A can?


Deb L

[email protected]

At our house they come out of hte freezer until about december and then from
the cans. Except peas. we did peas one year and after shelling about 4 lbs
picked, we wound up with 1 cup. Forget that! Frozen peas are the only kind
that will ever grow at our house!
Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein


-----Original Message-----
From: ddzimlew@... <ddzimlew@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, February 25, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Temperment Matters


>
>
>On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:49:09 -0800 (PST) Sharon Rudd
><bearspawprint@...> writes:
>
>> Where do out of season veggies come from?
>
>A can?
>
>
>Deb L
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Tia Leschke

>
>Also, a lot of the summer season fruits in our stores right now come from
>New Zealand! My son loves apricots and they had some at the store, from
>New Zealand, so I DID buy a few for him. Boy, that's sounding pretty
>prejudiced, isn't it? I didn't buy from Chile but I did buy from New
>Zealand. It just SOUNDS safer!

I don't know for sure, but my guess is that pesticides are regulated more
in NZ than Chile.


>I just realized I didn't answer your question about veggies, though. I
>think there are still a lot grown and imported from Mexico, even at this
>time of year, from what I understand.

And I doubt Mexico has anywhere near as strict regulations as the US or
Canada. Which is why I buy very little from south of the US border.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Tia Leschke

>At our house they come out of hte freezer until about december and then from
>the cans. Except peas. we did peas one year and after shelling about 4 lbs
>picked, we wound up with 1 cup. Forget that! Frozen peas are the only kind
>that will ever grow at our house!

We never manage to grow enough for a feed of cooked peas. Ours are for
grazing. <g> And sometimes I'll pick a bunch and put them on the table in
a bowl for dinner. We each just shuck them ourselves and eat them raw.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Karin

> Where do out of season veggies come from?

Sharon of the Swamp >>




Just yesterday I saw some grapes, both red and green, on a special sale and it said they were from Chile. I'll admit, I passed them by, because I had the thought of "I don't know if I want to eat something from Chile where they might be heavily sprayed with herbicides or pesticides." <g>

Also, a lot of the summer season fruits in our stores right now come from New Zealand! My son loves apricots and they had some at the store, from New Zealand, so I DID buy a few for him. Boy, that's sounding pretty prejudiced, isn't it? I didn't buy from Chile but I did buy from New Zealand. It just SOUNDS safer!

I just realized I didn't answer your question about veggies, though. I think there are still a lot grown and imported from Mexico, even at this time of year, from what I understand.


Karin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

zenmomma *

>>What is causing an increase in ADD, ADHD and bipolar disorder. Why are so
>>many children and adults on Prozac and anti-anxiety medication?>>

I can't speak about ADD too much, I think that falls under a different,
social policy debate. But I think bipolar, depressed and severely anxious
disorders are just now being recognized as having a physical cause. In the
past, these were the folks who were locked up in mental institutions or back
bedrooms. They were the ones exorcised by the priest and perhaps persecuted
as witches. They were the ones, like my great-grandmother, who hung
themselves in desperation.

~Mary


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Marietta Shirk

My son has a form of autism (Asperger's Syndrome). There has been over an
massive increase in autism in the past 15 yrs. No one knows why Same thing
with ADD/ADHD and bipolar.

Theories abound as to why the high increase. You can only argue
overdiagnoses so far....then you meet these kids and see how real the
problems are. This is not a matter of "accepting who your child is and
dealing with the difficulties". Far from it. The issues these kids have
can make it impossible for a family to function. Years ago they would have
been put in institutions or shunned.

My son takes medication for anxiety. Without it all he does is chews
clothes to bits and has about 20 big tantrums a day over "nothing". With it
(Zoloft), he can go places, meet people, play games, and even eat a meal
without breaking down over a drop of spilled drink. I am incredibly
grateful I had my son at a time when these disorders can be recognized *and*
have options for treatment.

We homeschool so that Matthew does have a place he is accepted for who he
is. He doesn't have to be forced into a school mold. But that does not
negate the need he has for medication.

Marietta
Matthew 4 1/2
Alexander 1


> I don't understand why so many children need to be medicated. What
> is causing an increase in ADD, ADHD and bipolar disorder. Why are so
> many children and adults on Prozac and anti-anxiety medication?
> Maybe in 20, 30 or 40 years these next generations will look back at
> our lives today and be glad they didn't have to live the way we live.
>
> Pat

homeschoolmd

--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., "Marietta Shirk" <mariettashirk@h...>
wrote:
> My son takes medication for anxiety. Without it all he does is
chews
> clothes to bits and has about 20 big tantrums a day over "nothing".


Have you ever tried using a Feingold diet with your son?

I only know what a difference it has made for my daughter and would
never want to imply that it would work for all other children but I
was wondering.

I asked my kids pediatrician why he doesn't recommend it to people.
He said it was too difficult for people to stick to. I guess if you
assume people are incapable of this they will be.

I think if more people used the diet there would be more demand for
artifial dye and flavor free things. The one area we have the most
trouble is in over the counter as well as prescription medication for
children.

Pat

Marietta Shirk

I have tried the diets as well as supplements. They did nothing for him.

Marietta
Matthew 4 1/2
Alexander 1


> Have you ever tried using a Feingold diet with your son?
>
> I only know what a difference it has made for my daughter and would
> never want to imply that it would work for all other children but I
> was wondering.
>
> I asked my kids pediatrician why he doesn't recommend it to people.
> He said it was too difficult for people to stick to. I guess if you
> assume people are incapable of this they will be.
>
> I think if more people used the diet there would be more demand for
> artifial dye and flavor free things. The one area we have the most
> trouble is in over the counter as well as prescription medication for
> children.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
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