Classes?
Dawn Falbe
Katrina's e-mail got me thinking. I had signed Zak up for a science class.
It was specifically for homeschoolers taught by a professor who (a) doesn't
have any kids and obviously never homeschooled. Zak went to the first set
of them no problem, although he didn't talk about them when he came home.
They were for 3 hours on a Thursday morning. Then I signed him up for the
2nd set and he went to the first 2 classes (there are 4 in a session) and he
told me he didn't want to go anymore. When I asked him why he said "Dr.
Soul makes me sit in the same place all the time and I like to move
around"... I said that we need to ask Dr. Soul why she does that. So we
went to the next class and all the time in the car we were practising what
he was going to say to her. Also we talked about what would be an
acceptable explanation and what wouldn't. He said he wanted to wait until
he was 100 weeks older to talk to her as he was frightened. So I went in
with him and he asked her "Dr. Soul why do you make me sit in the same place
all the time when I don't want too"... She said "because you move around a
lot Zak and hang over other people's work. Also because this is a mixed
class (8 of them) you and Q are in 1st grade and I have you separated by
grade). I said that was an acceptable answer and Zak agreed with me
(although I didn't really feel that inside). Zak seemed ok with that answer
and stayed for the class. But the next week he didn't want to go again and
it was because of the same thing. He wanted to be able to sit where he
wanted in the classroom and move around when he wanted. I didn't send him
because I realized that his reason IS valid whether I think it is or not. I
went to a "regular" school and was used to having to sit in the same place
and do as you were told (even though I didn't do as I was told and hated
school, all those rules and regulations that didn't make sense)... So this
week I asked him if he wanted to go to the last class and he said "No I
don't want to have to sit in the same place that Dr. Soul tells me too, I
want to stay home and play"... So that's what happened.
I think that deschooling myself about "classes" is going to take a while.
Zak has more of a sense of what he wants to do than I do, so I'm going to
have to trust him more and more and let go... Sometimes it feels so hard to
find the balance between unschooling and parenting.
Dawn
********************
Dawn Falbe
Astrologer Coach
(520) 312-5300
********************
www.astrologerdawn.com
dawn@...
Enlightening you on how to discover and live your Soul Purpose
"The people who get on in this world are people who get up and look for the
circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them." - George
Bernard Shaw
"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school" -
George Bernard Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It was specifically for homeschoolers taught by a professor who (a) doesn't
have any kids and obviously never homeschooled. Zak went to the first set
of them no problem, although he didn't talk about them when he came home.
They were for 3 hours on a Thursday morning. Then I signed him up for the
2nd set and he went to the first 2 classes (there are 4 in a session) and he
told me he didn't want to go anymore. When I asked him why he said "Dr.
Soul makes me sit in the same place all the time and I like to move
around"... I said that we need to ask Dr. Soul why she does that. So we
went to the next class and all the time in the car we were practising what
he was going to say to her. Also we talked about what would be an
acceptable explanation and what wouldn't. He said he wanted to wait until
he was 100 weeks older to talk to her as he was frightened. So I went in
with him and he asked her "Dr. Soul why do you make me sit in the same place
all the time when I don't want too"... She said "because you move around a
lot Zak and hang over other people's work. Also because this is a mixed
class (8 of them) you and Q are in 1st grade and I have you separated by
grade). I said that was an acceptable answer and Zak agreed with me
(although I didn't really feel that inside). Zak seemed ok with that answer
and stayed for the class. But the next week he didn't want to go again and
it was because of the same thing. He wanted to be able to sit where he
wanted in the classroom and move around when he wanted. I didn't send him
because I realized that his reason IS valid whether I think it is or not. I
went to a "regular" school and was used to having to sit in the same place
and do as you were told (even though I didn't do as I was told and hated
school, all those rules and regulations that didn't make sense)... So this
week I asked him if he wanted to go to the last class and he said "No I
don't want to have to sit in the same place that Dr. Soul tells me too, I
want to stay home and play"... So that's what happened.
I think that deschooling myself about "classes" is going to take a while.
Zak has more of a sense of what he wants to do than I do, so I'm going to
have to trust him more and more and let go... Sometimes it feels so hard to
find the balance between unschooling and parenting.
Dawn
********************
Dawn Falbe
Astrologer Coach
(520) 312-5300
********************
www.astrologerdawn.com
dawn@...
Enlightening you on how to discover and live your Soul Purpose
"The people who get on in this world are people who get up and look for the
circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them." - George
Bernard Shaw
"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school" -
George Bernard Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/8/02 7:15:20 AM, dawn@... writes:
<< I think that deschooling myself about "classes" is going to take a while.
homeschooled."
I would have talked to her myself, too, and said "Holly's interested in the
material, but it's bothering her to be told exactly where to sit. She needs
to move around more. Can you accommodate that?"
Six is too young to be expected to deal with an adult directly. That's
another school-thought thing, to say "You're out there, you deal with your
own problems directly."
If one child complains or questions, it's easy for an adult (especially a
childless one who love control and order) to dismiss that question as an
aberration, not as a pointer to a truth.
If one other adult explains something in terms of child development or the
difference between homeschoolers and schooled kids, it will make more
difference.
Sandra
<< I think that deschooling myself about "classes" is going to take a while.
>>My first thought was to have said to her "He's NOT in first grade, he's
homeschooled."
I would have talked to her myself, too, and said "Holly's interested in the
material, but it's bothering her to be told exactly where to sit. She needs
to move around more. Can you accommodate that?"
Six is too young to be expected to deal with an adult directly. That's
another school-thought thing, to say "You're out there, you deal with your
own problems directly."
If one child complains or questions, it's easy for an adult (especially a
childless one who love control and order) to dismiss that question as an
aberration, not as a pointer to a truth.
If one other adult explains something in terms of child development or the
difference between homeschoolers and schooled kids, it will make more
difference.
Sandra
Pat Cald...
Dawn, I thought you handled everything great. Why are you questioning yourself? Talking to Dr. Soul was valuable because she could have changed her mind. Zak *trying* to accept Dr. Soul's rules was fine. When what he go out of class did not out weigh his discomfort for the rules, he decided not to go anymore. Great.
We all make decisions like this regularly. Teaching our children to question rules is very beneficial. Understanding that there are stupid rules that sometime we will go along with to get something we want is life in America.
Pat
We all make decisions like this regularly. Teaching our children to question rules is very beneficial. Understanding that there are stupid rules that sometime we will go along with to get something we want is life in America.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Dawn Falbe
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 9:18 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Classes?
Katrina's e-mail got me thinking. I had signed Zak up for a science class.
It was specifically for homeschoolers taught by a professor who (a) doesn't
have any kids and obviously never homeschooled. Zak went to the first set
of them no problem, although he didn't talk about them when he came home.
They were for 3 hours on a Thursday morning. Then I signed him up for the
2nd set and he went to the first 2 classes (there are 4 in a session) and he
told me he didn't want to go anymore. When I asked him why he said "Dr.
Soul makes me sit in the same place all the time and I like to move
around"... I said that we need to ask Dr. Soul why she does that. So we
went to the next class and all the time in the car we were practising what
he was going to say to her. Also we talked about what would be an
acceptable explanation and what wouldn't. He said he wanted to wait until
he was 100 weeks older to talk to her as he was frightened. So I went in
with him and he asked her "Dr. Soul why do you make me sit in the same place
all the time when I don't want too"... She said "because you move around a
lot Zak and hang over other people's work. Also because this is a mixed
class (8 of them) you and Q are in 1st grade and I have you separated by
grade). I said that was an acceptable answer and Zak agreed with me
(although I didn't really feel that inside). Zak seemed ok with that answer
and stayed for the class. But the next week he didn't want to go again and
it was because of the same thing. He wanted to be able to sit where he
wanted in the classroom and move around when he wanted. I didn't send him
because I realized that his reason IS valid whether I think it is or not. I
went to a "regular" school and was used to having to sit in the same place
and do as you were told (even though I didn't do as I was told and hated
school, all those rules and regulations that didn't make sense)... So this
week I asked him if he wanted to go to the last class and he said "No I
don't want to have to sit in the same place that Dr. Soul tells me too, I
want to stay home and play"... So that's what happened.
I think that deschooling myself about "classes" is going to take a while.
Zak has more of a sense of what he wants to do than I do, so I'm going to
have to trust him more and more and let go... Sometimes it feels so hard to
find the balance between unschooling and parenting.
Dawn
********************
Dawn Falbe
Astrologer Coach
(520) 312-5300
********************
www.astrologerdawn.com
dawn@...
Enlightening you on how to discover and live your Soul Purpose
"The people who get on in this world are people who get up and look for the
circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them." - George
Bernard Shaw
"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school" -
George Bernard Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Dawn Falbe
Thank you both Sandra and Pat you both have some valid points. I guess as
it was a class for homeschoolers I didn't think I needed to say that he's
homeschooled although I can see that I do and that is a great learning
lesson. I've had other people ask me what grade he's in when I say we've
homeschooling and instead of continuing to same "we homeschool" in answer to
that question I usually say "I have no idea what grades are.. Luckily I grew
up in England where we go by years rather than grades and I never bothered
to learn the system here"... I think it's simpler if we say "we homeschool"
LOL.....
Sandra I like the way you put the question to the teacher about acommodating
her... I would never have thought of that... I just asked her why she was
doing it rather than forgetting about why she's doing it and focusing on
what my son needs... Great point...
The only thing I would have to disagree with is that six is too young to be
expected to deal with an adult directly. I guess because I'm confused about
what's the difference between when we are talking about the ages of people?
Why would my son be more intimidated to say something to her or say
something to a man of 21 (Dr. Soul is probably about 45)? I was there with
him and we had rehearsed in the car what he was going to say and let him
decide whether he wanted to stay at the class after she had answered his
questions. For me, and I can only speak for myself, I believe it's
important that I teach my children very strong boundaries right from the
beginning and that there is no one they cannot ask a question of if they
don't understand something. Zak questions rules all the time and I thought
this was another opportunity to question rules from a person who he'd not
had the opportunity to ask why from?
Dawn
<My first thought was to have said to her "He's NOT in first grade, he's
homeschooled."I would have talked to her myself, too, and said Holly's
interested in the material, but it's bothering her to be told exactly where
to sit. She needs to move around more. Can you accommodate that?"Six is too
young to be expected to deal with an adult directly. That's another
school-thought thing, to say "You're out there, you deal with your own
problems directly." If one child complains or questions, it's easy for an
adult (especially a childless one who love control and order) to dismiss
that question as an aberration, not as a pointer to a truth.If one other
adult explains something in terms of child development or the difference
between homeschoolers and schooled kids, it will make more difference.
SANDRA
Dawn, I thought you handled everything great. Why are you questioning
yourself? Talking to Dr. Soul was valuable because she could have changed
her mind. Zak *trying* to accept Dr. Soul's rules was fine. When what he go
out of class did not out weigh his discomfort for the rules, he decided not
to go anymore. Great.
We all make decisions like this regularly. Teaching our children to question
rules is very beneficial. Understanding that there are stupid rules that
sometime we will go along with to get something we want is life in America.
PAT
********************
Dawn Falbe
Astrologer Coach
(520) 312-5300
********************
www.astrologerdawn.com
dawn@...
Enlightening you on how to discover and live your Soul Purpose
"The people who get on in this world are people who get up and look for the
circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them." - George
Bernard Shaw
"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school" -
George Bernard Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it was a class for homeschoolers I didn't think I needed to say that he's
homeschooled although I can see that I do and that is a great learning
lesson. I've had other people ask me what grade he's in when I say we've
homeschooling and instead of continuing to same "we homeschool" in answer to
that question I usually say "I have no idea what grades are.. Luckily I grew
up in England where we go by years rather than grades and I never bothered
to learn the system here"... I think it's simpler if we say "we homeschool"
LOL.....
Sandra I like the way you put the question to the teacher about acommodating
her... I would never have thought of that... I just asked her why she was
doing it rather than forgetting about why she's doing it and focusing on
what my son needs... Great point...
The only thing I would have to disagree with is that six is too young to be
expected to deal with an adult directly. I guess because I'm confused about
what's the difference between when we are talking about the ages of people?
Why would my son be more intimidated to say something to her or say
something to a man of 21 (Dr. Soul is probably about 45)? I was there with
him and we had rehearsed in the car what he was going to say and let him
decide whether he wanted to stay at the class after she had answered his
questions. For me, and I can only speak for myself, I believe it's
important that I teach my children very strong boundaries right from the
beginning and that there is no one they cannot ask a question of if they
don't understand something. Zak questions rules all the time and I thought
this was another opportunity to question rules from a person who he'd not
had the opportunity to ask why from?
Dawn
<My first thought was to have said to her "He's NOT in first grade, he's
homeschooled."I would have talked to her myself, too, and said Holly's
interested in the material, but it's bothering her to be told exactly where
to sit. She needs to move around more. Can you accommodate that?"Six is too
young to be expected to deal with an adult directly. That's another
school-thought thing, to say "You're out there, you deal with your own
problems directly." If one child complains or questions, it's easy for an
adult (especially a childless one who love control and order) to dismiss
that question as an aberration, not as a pointer to a truth.If one other
adult explains something in terms of child development or the difference
between homeschoolers and schooled kids, it will make more difference.
SANDRA
Dawn, I thought you handled everything great. Why are you questioning
yourself? Talking to Dr. Soul was valuable because she could have changed
her mind. Zak *trying* to accept Dr. Soul's rules was fine. When what he go
out of class did not out weigh his discomfort for the rules, he decided not
to go anymore. Great.
We all make decisions like this regularly. Teaching our children to question
rules is very beneficial. Understanding that there are stupid rules that
sometime we will go along with to get something we want is life in America.
PAT
********************
Dawn Falbe
Astrologer Coach
(520) 312-5300
********************
www.astrologerdawn.com
dawn@...
Enlightening you on how to discover and live your Soul Purpose
"The people who get on in this world are people who get up and look for the
circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them." - George
Bernard Shaw
"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school" -
George Bernard Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 19:10:15 -0700 "Dawn Falbe" <dawn@...>
writes:
I've been thinking about this. I think that if I had a 6 yr old who
really wanted to do this him or herself, I'd be fine with it. However,
many 6 year olds I know get a bit intimidated about confronting adults,
especially "authority figures". If nothing else, there's a physical size
discrepancy, but I think it's more than that. There is a power
discrepancy, and I think the kids sense it. In a situation where she is
is labeled "teacher" and Zac is labled "student", she clearly has more
power. Adults also tend to have better reasoning skills and verbal skills
- Cacie at 6 might have been to tell someone that she didn't like
something, and how it made her feel, but she couldn't have explained that
the task was developmentally inappropriate and required skills that kids
usually don't develop until 8 or 9.
Cacie will sometimes deal with something like this herself now, and
sometimes ask me to do it. Either way is okay. If it's someone she's
generally comfortable with but needs to confront or question for some
reason, she's usually okay, and maybe we'll talk about it beforehand. If
it's someone she doesn't really know or trust, she often wants me to do
it. I think she trusts me to be able to say what she means in a way that
the other person will "get", and she knows that sometimes she can't do
that as well. She told me today that some of the girls on her soccer team
were saying that if the other team pushes you, it's okay to push them
back. This felt wrong to her, clearly, but she didn't want to contradict
the girl and be labeled a goody-goody. It was a frustrating game,
apparently the other team was elbowing our girls and pulling on their
sleeves, and the refs didn't call any of it. Cacie could see why the
other girl would say this, it made some sense to level the field. We
talked a bit, and I suggested that I could mention it to the coach, who
is wonderful. She liked the idea, as long as I did it in private and
didn't mention the girl's name. I agreed, and I will. We expect that the
coach will talk to all of the girls about it, and reinforce their
feelings that it's not fair while reiterating that fair play is
important, even if the other team is playing dirty.
I do think it's important for kids to know that they can ask for whhat
they need, I just think it's important that they feel safe and ready to
do so, and that we help them until they do.
And Dawn, I didn't forget your other email, I was doing a quick bit of
research but I'll send you info tomorrow..
Dar
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writes:
> The only thing I would have to disagree with is that six is too youngto be
> expected to deal with an adult directly. I guess because I'm confusedabout
> what's the difference between when we are talking about the ages ofpeople?
I've been thinking about this. I think that if I had a 6 yr old who
really wanted to do this him or herself, I'd be fine with it. However,
many 6 year olds I know get a bit intimidated about confronting adults,
especially "authority figures". If nothing else, there's a physical size
discrepancy, but I think it's more than that. There is a power
discrepancy, and I think the kids sense it. In a situation where she is
is labeled "teacher" and Zac is labled "student", she clearly has more
power. Adults also tend to have better reasoning skills and verbal skills
- Cacie at 6 might have been to tell someone that she didn't like
something, and how it made her feel, but she couldn't have explained that
the task was developmentally inappropriate and required skills that kids
usually don't develop until 8 or 9.
Cacie will sometimes deal with something like this herself now, and
sometimes ask me to do it. Either way is okay. If it's someone she's
generally comfortable with but needs to confront or question for some
reason, she's usually okay, and maybe we'll talk about it beforehand. If
it's someone she doesn't really know or trust, she often wants me to do
it. I think she trusts me to be able to say what she means in a way that
the other person will "get", and she knows that sometimes she can't do
that as well. She told me today that some of the girls on her soccer team
were saying that if the other team pushes you, it's okay to push them
back. This felt wrong to her, clearly, but she didn't want to contradict
the girl and be labeled a goody-goody. It was a frustrating game,
apparently the other team was elbowing our girls and pulling on their
sleeves, and the refs didn't call any of it. Cacie could see why the
other girl would say this, it made some sense to level the field. We
talked a bit, and I suggested that I could mention it to the coach, who
is wonderful. She liked the idea, as long as I did it in private and
didn't mention the girl's name. I agreed, and I will. We expect that the
coach will talk to all of the girls about it, and reinforce their
feelings that it's not fair while reiterating that fair play is
important, even if the other team is playing dirty.
I do think it's important for kids to know that they can ask for whhat
they need, I just think it's important that they feel safe and ready to
do so, and that we help them until they do.
And Dawn, I didn't forget your other email, I was doing a quick bit of
research but I'll send you info tomorrow..
Dar
________________________________________________________________
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Tia Leschke
>She told me today that some of the girls on her soccer teamA good coach would be politely asking the ref why they weren't calling
>were saying that if the other team pushes you, it's okay to push them
>back. This felt wrong to her, clearly, but she didn't want to contradict
>the girl and be labeled a goody-goody. It was a frustrating game,
>apparently the other team was elbowing our girls and pulling on their
>sleeves, and the refs didn't call any of it. Cacie could see why the
>other girl would say this, it made some sense to level the field.
those penalties. When refs let that stuff go, they're just asking for a
rougher game. But you can tell Cacie that the refs almost always see the
retaliation, and will usually call the penalty on the person who
retaliated. So that stragegy would end up hurting her team.
Tia, the sports-hating sports mum
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 08:37:52 -0800 Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
writes:
soccer to have two very gentle, nurturing head coaches (and both
assistant coaches have been good guys too, the one this year is a college
soccer player). Generally, in both of the leagues we've played it, it's
considered very bad form to contradict a referee's call or tell a ref
what calls to make, and I agree with that policy. It's a hard job, and
some of the refs are only 9 or 10 years old. They don't need someone
second-guessing their calls, even in a nice way. They can't see
everything. I know this coach has very respectfully spoken to the field
ref a couple of times after a game, about some calls, but I don't think
it's appropriate during a game.
The refs also seem to get better as the kids get older... Cacie plays on
a U9 and a U10 team, so the kids are pretty young, and they tend to be
more thoughtless than vicious.
like, "If someone from the other team is racing you for the ball, elbow
her out of the way, since that's what they alwsys do to us." Things like
that. The girl who had the idea is probably the most competitive kid on
the team, she and Cacie have argued before. Actually, this girl has
argued with a good number of the other girls. I had gone to my car so I
wasn't there when she and Cacie first got into it, but when I arrived
Cacie was in tears and there were three or four girls at her side
supporting her and telling her that G. has "yelled at" them, too. The
coach also hadled that nicely...
The game today was a very fairly-played 1-1 tie....
league for thirty-something women who haven't played in years...
Dar
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writes:
>asking
> >It was a frustrating game,
> >apparently the other team was elbowing our girls and pulling on their
> >sleeves, and the refs didn't call any of it. Cacie could see why the
> >other girl would say this, it made some sense to level the field.
>
> A good coach would be politely asking the ref why they weren't
> calling those penalties. When refs let that stuff go, they're just
> for a rougher game.I think Cacie's coach is wonderful, and I think she's been lucky in
soccer to have two very gentle, nurturing head coaches (and both
assistant coaches have been good guys too, the one this year is a college
soccer player). Generally, in both of the leagues we've played it, it's
considered very bad form to contradict a referee's call or tell a ref
what calls to make, and I agree with that policy. It's a hard job, and
some of the refs are only 9 or 10 years old. They don't need someone
second-guessing their calls, even in a nice way. They can't see
everything. I know this coach has very respectfully spoken to the field
ref a couple of times after a game, about some calls, but I don't think
it's appropriate during a game.
The refs also seem to get better as the kids get older... Cacie plays on
a U9 and a U10 team, so the kids are pretty young, and they tend to be
more thoughtless than vicious.
>But you can tell Cacie that the refs almost always see theI don't think they meant to retaliate, just to use the same tactics,
> retaliation, and will usually call the penalty on the person who
> retaliated. So that strategy would end up hurting her team.
like, "If someone from the other team is racing you for the ball, elbow
her out of the way, since that's what they alwsys do to us." Things like
that. The girl who had the idea is probably the most competitive kid on
the team, she and Cacie have argued before. Actually, this girl has
argued with a good number of the other girls. I had gone to my car so I
wasn't there when she and Cacie first got into it, but when I arrived
Cacie was in tears and there were three or four girls at her side
supporting her and telling her that G. has "yelled at" them, too. The
coach also hadled that nicely...
The game today was a very fairly-played 1-1 tie....
> Tia, the sports-hating sports mum:-) I like sports. I've been looking for a very recreational soccer
league for thirty-something women who haven't played in years...
Dar
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Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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