Joseph Fuerst

<< AND some guidance and/or
stories of how people managed showing/selling the house with little ones
about. >>

Well, we have stories about deciding instead to build a second floor. My
kids
now know a lot about appraisals and financing <gg>.

paula


Now there's a thought....... we can add checking into an upward addition to
our list.
We're a bit ambivalent about the whole thing.....though I'd like a bigger
house - at least bigger bedrooms, I am "comfortable" in our neighborhood.
Our marketing startegy (and impetus) is thus: A nieghbor two house up
put their house on the market. Theeir house is similar in floor plan, but
ours is more attractive, at least from the outside). We put a FSBO sign in
our front yard, figuring anyone interested enough to drive by theirs, will
see ours. Those who actually LOOK at that house would be crazy to not at
least check ours out, too.
I like the idea of selecting a day or two each week to 'show' the house.
That seems manageable.
I know Pat's suggestions on the routine are good....challenging for one
such as I. Pat, you seem like a naturally organized person. I'm thinking
I'm more like your dd.....who doesn't 'see' all the steps to a job (though
I can see the finished product I want). I work hard on some semblance of
order in the things around me, with some guidance. Then you have the fact
that my not-naturally-organized other family members can clutter a place up
in mere moments!
I have decided to creat "treasure boxes" i.e., I'll pack about 1/2 -
3/4 of our 'cool stuff' (toys/games/books) into boxes for storage ( to
de-clutter); then when we arrive at a new home, the kids and I can go
through them and re-discover the treasures.
Thanks all!
Susan

Joseph Fuerst

>>It was very empowering,
too, to realize that we could do such a major business deal without a
middleperson who would take such an amazing amount of our "profit."

Good Luck!!
DiAnna<<
Thanks DiAnna!
We actually met with a realtor last fall....and I was stunned to realize the
profit she'd make...especially if she gets both sides (the selling and the
buying). And she'd send us listings...like she's 'finding' these
potential houses fro us....but I waseasil;y always ahead of that...I mean,
the MLS is right here on the web for all to see. And she's not likely to
drive areas of interest to us to spot FSBO places!
I think if our current strategy of looking for leads from the neighbor's
'overflow' doesn't work, then we'll try the FSBO service near us advertises
like yours did.

Susan, not the one whose family Sandra thinks is cool, but that's 'cause
she hasn't met ours yet, I'm sure ;-)


________________________________________________________________________

Joseph Fuerst

Dan, Thanks, I'm saving this for if we find a house we really want (which
we haven't - it's part of my ambiguity - IF we sell,, then we have to move
and are limited by what's out there now)...IF we see a house we love, we
need to be in a solid position to have our house on the market).

We were browsing a book store and saw a book titled "How to sell your House
(Home?) in Five Days." We bought it and followed its outline.

It worked.

**There are only
so many people in the market to buy a house like ours at any one time. They
can come by and look at the house over months or over the weekend. 2, The
house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. What we think it
is worth doesn't matter.**

I am in total agreement on these...though it's taken a few months to be that
objective! We're in the semi-rotten postion that house in the style of ours
in our area have not broken the $100,000 mark, so realtors believe top
dollar will be $99,900 (which is actually not bad if you take away the
commision). I'm w estling with that....but I'll just let it go since 'tis
true that it's only worth what someone's willing to pay.

**We still had to make the house more than presentable, but it only had to
be
that way for a weekend.**

Now this I find appealing!!

**With a new job 1500 miles away, starting in three weeks we were so relived
to be landless peasants again. <G>

-Dan Vilter**

hee hee! I'm grateful not to have THAT pressure....I'd have to insist the
employer buy us out then!

Joseph Fuerst

**We repainted the eaves (brick house), did some touch up
painting inside, cleaned the carpet and washed the windows. **

I'm heading to Wal-mart to get that carpet cleaner!

** But the single
best thing we did was DITCH the STUFF. Made the house look much more um,
presentable.

Jocelyn
**
Wise, yet challenging, words!

KT

>
>
>If this is the one Ren wanted, Lisa Bugg included it in her farewell letter
>when she resigned unschooling.com leadership.
>

Thank you.

I knew Jan, and attended her memorial service. I kind of thought it
would be a poem of hers that I knew, but I didn't want to presume.

Thanks again.

Karen

KT

>
>
>
>We sold the house ourselves over a weekend.
>
>We were browsing a book store and saw a book titled "How to sell your House
>(Home?) in Five Days." We bought it and followed its outline.
>
>It worked.
>

I can see how that would work in some parts of California. It might
work here, too. But professional auctioneers are now getting into the
act. Most of the houses in my neighborhood, OTOH, have been on the
market for a year or more. When we called the auctioneer about selling
this house off, they advised against it. Not enough interest. We're
kinda stuck if we're going to pay somebody else to help us sell it. I
know I could sell it in a matter of weeks, but I'm not ready for a
full-time job. ;)

When we lived out in the 'burbs, about 5 years ago, we sold our house
FSBO. We used a book called "The For Sale By Owner Kit". It worked,
too. But we had a lot going for us...mainly location and the perception
of good schools. Only took about 4 weeks, and we were competing against
brand-spanking-new houses down the street. Ours sold first.

Real estate agents, like school teachers, want you to think it can't be
done, or that there's some special magic. But if you have access to the
MLS, like most FSBO magazines do, and a burning desire to sell it, you
have most everything you need.

My husband had a real estate license in another state, and he would be
selling it if he could walk into it making what he makes now. Just so
nobody thinks I'm dissing real estate agents.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hi all,
I just wanted to take a quick minute and say THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart!
I love my cyber "family". The outpouring of sympathy has really been heartwarming...I know a lot of you have been through this, I appreciate all of the kind thoughts more than you know.
I am in lurk mode though, I just can't stay away totally. It helps me think about something other than my Mom and the funeral (on Saturday) to come here and feel connected to you all.

Thank you for posting the poem. I have read it over and over.

So back to lurk mode for a while longer...don't have time to respond but I love reading still!!

Take care everyone,
Ren





[email protected] wrote:

>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Digest Number 208
> From: KT <Tuck@...>
> 2. Re: Digest Number 209
> From: KT <Tuck@...>
> 3. Re: Digest Number 210
> From: KT <Tuck@...>
> 4. Re: Digest Number 210
> From: KT <Tuck@...>
> 5. For the cat scientist
> From: Susan Bundlie <strandbe@...>
> 6. Re: moving
> From: sjogy@...
> 7. soap making and frustration-question
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 8. Re: animal behavior was chemistry sets
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 9. Re: Digest Number 209
> From: rsrascals@...
> 10. Re: Digest Number 210
> From: "zenmomma *" <zenmomma@...>
> 11. Re: Distressed Carpets and Solutions
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 12. Eric's courage in the face of litterers
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 13. Re: international perspectives
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 14. Re: puppets/marionettes
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 15. Re: moving
> From: rsrascals@...
> 16. Re: Digest Number 210
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 17. Life Learning Magazine
> From: KathrynJB@...
> 18. Re: Distressed Carpets and Solutions
> From: "Karin" <curtkar@...>
> 19. Re: moving
> From: Dan Vilter <dvilter@...>
> 20. Eric
> From: Sharon Rudd <bearspawprint@...>
> 21. Re: moving
> From: Jocelyn Vilter <JVilter@...>
> 22. Re: Evangalism
> From: Cindy <crma@...>
> 23. Re: re: keeping unschooling free
> From: Elizabeth Hill <ecsamhill@...>
> 24. Re: Re: Asking
> From: Elizabeth Hill <ecsamhill@...>
> 25. Re: Meghan the Heroine: Re: Nancy's Post
> From: Sharon Rudd <bearspawprint@...>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 06:42:28 -0600
> From: KT <Tuck@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 208
>
>>
>>
>> Tom is
>>the original bubble man (and in my opinion, still the best.) He planted the
>>seed for my decision to go into business for myself. I met him while I was
>>working at the Memphis Pink Palace Museum.
>>
>Ha! I didn't know Krampf had a Memphis connection! We're members of
>this museum. It's decent. :)
>
>Tuck
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:09:55 -0600
> From: KT <Tuck@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 209
>
>>
>>
>>I, too, revert to "THE GENERAL" when under stress...especially when we are
>>running late.
>>
>
>I'm several digests behind, so forgive me for responding late.
>
>The best thing I got out of all those TCP/non-coercive parenting debates
>on AOL back in the day was the concept of time coercion and money
>coercion.
>
>Lots of time when I'm stressed and not treating myself and others well,
>it's because I feel the pressure of time or money closing in on me. I
>can usually short circuit the stress and my bad behavior by identifiying
>exactly what the pressure is. I am chronically, pathologically early--I
>hate to be late for anything. This causes a lot of time-coercion in my
>life, as you can imagine. (My husband is chronically late, but he just
>thinks it's because he's an optimist. i.e., he thinks he can get more
>done than he actually can. :) So when I feel the time crunch and start
>hurrying Will, I try to remind myself that it's OKAY to be on time. ;)
>
>(Interestingly, when it comes to a project or job, I work better under
>deadline pressure, and often save the largest and most creative tasks
>for the last minute.)
>
>The money-coercion thing I handle best by planning ahead for everything,
>and using Quicken. :) I put money-to-blow right there in the budget
>(luckily we generally have some to blow). It usually goes for the Big
>Kid meal on the way home from the skating rink, when Will is
>demonstrating the hungry-uglies because he should have eaten something
>besides cookies for breakfast, or stuff like that.
>
>So, if you can remember that it's not the kids, it's the time or money
>that's making you stress out, you're one step closer to happy childhood.
>
>Tuck
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:21:54 -0600
> From: KT <Tuck@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 210
>
>>
>>
>>Thanks for letting us know, Sandra. FYI for everyone...I had a copy of that
>>poem Ren was looking for and have sent it to her email.
>>
>
>Ren, I'm sorry to hear about your mother...even though you're not
>listening right now, I hope you feel this good vibe being sent out.
>
>Would someone mind posting the poem?
>
>Tuck
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:26:58 -0600
> From: KT <Tuck@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 210
>
>>
>>
>>A few years ago--actually, more than a few years ago--Eric (dh) was waiting
>>at a stop light behind someone who finished eating something and threw the
>>wadded-up wrapping out the car window.
>>
>
>I don't always have the opportunity to get out and do what Eric did, but
>I *always* honk the horn and point at people and let them know that I
>SAW them throw out the cigarette butt or the McDonald's bag.
>
>They think no one is looking, so no one cares. I don't want them to
>think that anymore.
>
>Tuck
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:26:22 -0600
> From: Susan Bundlie <strandbe@...>
>Subject: For the cat scientist
>
><<She really believes her animals are very smart and tells me how she has
>trained them. The most recent thing was training her cat to flush the
>toilet since he likes seeing the water swirl.>>
>
>Here's a website for her:
>
>http://www.karawynn.net/mishacat/
>
>It's all about a cat named Misha who is toilet trained. Actually, if you
>type in "toilet training cats" on Google you can see/read some pretty
>amazing stuff.
>
>Susan
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:43:35 EST
> From: sjogy@...
>Subject: Re: moving
>
>
>In a message dated 2/6/02 3:40:24 PM, fuerst@... writes:
>
><< AND some guidance and/or
>stories of how people managed showing/selling the house with little ones
>about. >>
>
>Well, we have stories about deciding instead to build a second floor. My kids
>now know a lot about appraisals and financing <gg>.
>
>paula
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:43:47 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
>Subject: soap making and frustration-question
>
>
>In a message dated 2/6/02 6:11:55 PM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
>
><< If I say let's put oatmeal in this soap because it will make it scratchy
>and tell them why we would want scratchy soap, I've taken all the discovery
>out of everything. If I buy all the soap making stuff and say you decide how
>you want to use this, we usually will not have a finished product. What is
>the best way to help them discover and yet minimize frustration? >>
>
>You need to want to make soap yourself, or else they need to want to make
>soap themselves, because if you just want them to make soap, there's
>frustration all around.
>
>And if you say "Do you want to help me make soap?" they will probably say
>yes. What they will mean is they want to do something new and fun.
>Whichever part of helping is NOT new and fun will go on the meter too, so
>they might not make it through the project if you involve them totally too
>soon (like when the stuff's still in the box).
>
>So like a chef's helper or the tech-guy who sets up the TV demonstration in
>advance, have things at an organized and interesting place before you call
>them.
>
>If Holly wants to help me make cookies, I don't make her find the pans and
>see if there's vanilla. She wants to stir, or to measure, to form dough, or
>to put them in the oven. She doesn't have a two-hour attention span.
>
>So settle for them being in on the fun parts, and don't unreasonably expect
>them to either do it all, or to even pay attention to it all.
>
>And if you make some with oatmeal and some without, you could either tell
>them "some people like scratchy soap" or not, and then let them decide on
>their own whether they themselves do or not later on, when the soap's cured,
>and they try it.
>
>Soap is a little like molding ceramics. It's such a long-term project that
>younger kids have forgotten the beginning of it by the finished-project time.
> So don't envision one solid experience, but the parts of it. (Unless this
>is soap that's ready to use pretty soon and doesn't need to cure in stages.)
>
>But basically, if you don't want to do it yourself, don't even start. If the
>kit costs money and you'll be resentful if the kids aren't thrilled and
>industrious, wait until later, if ever, to do it.
>
>That sounds negative, but in the meantime there are half a million other
>things in the world that they might like better. Instead of getting them to
>like what you think they will like, playing and goofing around and going for
>walks and discovering what they DO like will make a less frustrating path.
>
>Sandra
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:49:15 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
>Subject: Re: animal behavior was chemistry sets
>
>
>In a message dated 2/6/02 6:51:58 PM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
>
><< They have lots of books on animal intellegence and animal behavior in the
>library that I think Virginia will love. One of the books is called
>"Experiments with Animal Behavior" and it is written for kids. I can't wait
>to get it for her. >>
>
>Maybe take her with you, show her where it is, and let her decide.
>
>Bringing a book like that home could backfire. If you press the scientific
>explanations on her, you might take out the mystery and joy of her own
>discoveries.
>
>I think more "evidence" before explanation might be better. Depends on her
>personality, but if she's discovering a puzzle to figure out, don't bring an
>answer key.
>
>Some of those books can be depressing, too, if they're too much about lab
>animals. The mothering studies from the 60's with the baby monkeys made big
>changes in doctors' advice and treatment of babies in hospitals and
>orphanages, but they're not going to cheer up any animal-loving children, so
>be careful what you bring home.
>
>Koko's Kitten (a book for kids) is great from the point of view of someone
>interested in language development and communicating by sign language, but it
>involves mourning a dead kitten, so might not be good for her either.
>
>
>
>Sandra
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:51:53 EST
> From: rsrascals@...
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 209
>
>Tuck,
>
>Yeah, you're right. I am a terminal worrier about lateness. Although, I
>don't seem to require it of folks coming to my house : ) I do try to think
>ahead about where we need to go and how much needs to get into the car before
>we leave, etc. I find that the times that are the worst are when I've let
>the girls to "just one more thing, Mom." Of course, we move at different
>speeds and I get more and more volcano-ish. Not a pretty sight.
>
>And money... that is a whole new stress area. I go through weeks where I can
>just think philosophically about the fact that we are just making the
>payments. And then some horrid bill comes in that I had not
>anticipated...like dh's car breaks down (again) or his yearly professional
>membership renewal ($187 and required for him to keep his OT license in the
>state) is due. Then I go from bitchin' and moanin' to nearly crying at the
>continual stress level regarding money. Boy, that sounds pathetic!
>
>Thanks for the help with perspective.
>
>DiAnna
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 06:52:53 -0700
> From: "zenmomma *" <zenmomma@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 210
>
>
>>Would someone mind posting the poem?
>
>Here it is. I think it's the one she was looking for . It's the one Lisa
>Bugg sent out with her final newsletter. BTW I finally got over to
>unschooling.com and it looks like Ren is going to be getting lots of copies
>in her mailbox. :-/ Hope she feels cared for and not overwhelmed.
>
>~Mary
>
>
>>The Grace of Crabs
> by Jan Provencial
>>
>>Deep calls unto deep at the noise of you waterfalls;
>>all your waves and billows have gone over me.
>>Psalm 42:7
>>
>>I've been watching sand crabs plunge into the ocean.
>>They come from nowhere-up-ahead of me
>>and fling themselves off the two-foot sandcliff
>>sculpted by last night's high tide.
>>Their clawed legs gallop like slender fingers
>>running scales on a piano.
>>
>>The sea come to meet them,
>>a bubbling rush of foam.
>>On contact, the crabs pull in their claws,
>>allow themselves to float and be dragged away.
>>
>>What violent surrender is must be to be greeted
>>and held by something so immense,
>>free from all attachments;
>>The ache of heart-rope tied
>>so tight
>>around my baby son,
>>who crawls oblivious toward the water,
>>and to my four year-old daughter
>>who, past exhaustion, runs into the waves,
>>over and over,
>>protected only by a pair of water wings.
>>
>>I snatch them back again and again.
>>
>>And wonder:
>>will I know how to abandon
>>my burrowed home in the crumbling sand
>>and leap out,
>>not held by gravity or love,
>>forgetting all resistance ,
>>to be embraced by vast deeps,
>>never looking back?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:02:42 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
>Subject: Re: Distressed Carpets and Solutions
>
>
>In a message dated 2/6/02 7:43:43 PM, curtkar@... writes:
>
><< I recently learned of an EXCELLENT carpet stain remover.
>It's called FOLEX Instant Carpet Spot Remover.
>I bought it at Walmart. A big bottle for $4.99. >>
>
>I needed to know that!
>
>And Kirby said to me yesterday, "We need to just go to Walmart."
>
>This is Kirby who no longer has time to shop, and who no longer likes to go
>out and just hang out in public with his mom or family much. He wants me to
>take him to Walmart. I don't remember why. <g>
>
>We're also going grocery shopping, for his meatball dish and the cake he's
>making for tomorrow night.
>
>I can share with him the fascination of buying carpet-stain remover.
>
>Sandra
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:04:55 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
>Subject: Eric's courage in the face of litterers
>
>
>In a message dated 2/6/02 7:47:05 PM, strandbe@... writes:
>
><< Eric jumped out of his car, ran
>ahead, picked up the trash and said to the man "excuse me sir, you dropped
>this." The startled guy actually said "thank you" and took it back! I don't
>know if he detected sarcasm or not. (Today Eric probably would have been
>shot.) >>
>
>No wonder you love him!
>
>(I've met Eric, and Susan and their daughters, and they are just about the
>coolest family you can imagine.)
>
>Sandra
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:08:21 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
>Subject: Re: international perspectives
>
>
>In a message dated 2/6/02 7:58:42 PM, jdeets@... writes:
>
><< Do any of you know of published sources that deal with homeschooling,
>ideally unschooling, in places other than the US? I know they exist >>
>
>I don't know that they exist.
>Maybe in England.
>
>In Japan, the author of the book will probably be Kyoko, at owj@....
>What she has so far is a Japanese translation of Linda Dobson's Homeschooling
>Book of Answers.
>
>There are online things in England, but I don't know what there is in the way
>of a "real book."
>
>I have some international links at sandradodd.com/unschoolingotherwise
>
>Sandra
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:11:44 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
>Subject: Re: puppets/marionettes
>
>
>In a message dated 2/6/02 9:22:58 PM, fuerst@... writes:
>
><< Anyhow, we came up with the idea of using those yarn dolls (you wrap
>yarn around a book and it makes a doll. I have no idea how to do this, but
>Katy is an expert!) and making them into marionettes with popsicle sticks
>and thread or fishing line. The yarn dolls are floppy enough AND you can
>design some simple dress up outfits for them. >>
>
>Good idea! They'll need weighted feet. Doll shoes with playdough in would
>do it. <g>
>
>One book showed a neat marionette made with a head (whatever kind of little
>doll head or homemade head) fastened to the corner of a scarf, and two
>corners of the scarf make the hands, and the fourth corner just hangs down.
>Looked kind of ghostly, but worked well.
>
>Sandra
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:10:37 EST
> From: rsrascals@...
>Subject: Re: moving
>
>Susan,
>
>We just moved last year with two toddlers and two dogs (well, and two
>parents,as well ). Our solution was to sell our home ourselves. It worked
>out really well since I got to make all the appointments and I knew when
>people were coming. There was a company in VT (where we lived) that listed
>your home on their website, in their FSBO catalog and gave you all the
>paperwork. It only cost about $300 for 3 months listing. We sold our house
>for our asking price to the 7th viewers. In all I showed the house 10 times
>in 20 days, but a couple times I had more than one showing in a day. It was
>easier to be able to do my own scheduling. That way if the girls were having
>a yucky day or I just did not feel like dealing with anyone, I did not have
>to.
>
>Perhaps there is a similar service near you. You can also just go ahead and
>do it through the classified ads. The lawyer's fees were taken out of our
>"profit", but only came to a few hundred dollars. It was very empowering,
>too, to realize that we could do such a major business deal without a
>middleperson who would take such an amazing amount of our "profit."
>
>Good Luck!!
>DiAnna
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:31:09 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 210
>
>If this is the one Ren wanted, Lisa Bugg included it in her farewell letter
>when she resigned unschooling.com leadership.
>----------------
>My friend, Jan, had to do the final letting go this December. Her children
>
>were given a measurable amount of time with their mother and immeasurable
>
>gifts by her life. Those who knew her were given touches of strength and
>
>grace. All I could wish for you in the coming new year is a smidgen of her
>
>courage as you face your families needs of release and growth.
>
>
>In tribute to my friend, Jan Provencial, I close my final newsletter with
>
>one of her poems.
>--------------------------
>
>
>The Grace of Crabs
>
>
>Deep calls unto deep at the noise of you waterfalls;
>
>all your waves and billows have gone over me.
>
>Psalm 42:7
>
>
>I've been watching sand crabs plunge into the ocean.
>
>They come from nowhere-up-ahead of me
>
>and fling themselves off the two-foot sandcliff
>
>sculpted by last night's high tide.
>
>Their clawed legs gallop like slender fingers
>
>running scales on a piano.
>
>
>The sea come to meet them,
>
>a bubbling rush of foam.
>
>On contact, the crabs pull in their claws,
>
>allow themselves to float and be dragged away.
>
>
>What violent surrender is must be to be greeted
>
>and held by something so immense,
>
>free from all attachments;
>
>The ache of heart-rope tied
>
>so tight
>
>around my baby son,
>
>who crawls oblivious toward the water,
>
>and to my four year-old daughter
>
>who, past exhaustion, runs into the waves,
>
>over and over,
>
>protected only by a pair of water wings.
>
>
>I snatch them back again and again.
>
>
>And wonder:
>
>will I know how to abandon
>
>my burrowed home in the crumbling sand
>
>and leap out,
>
>not held by gravity or love,
>
>forgetting all resistance ,
>
>to be embraced by vast deeps,
>
>never looking back?
>
>
>
>******************************************
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:53:59 EST
> From: KathrynJB@...
>Subject: Life Learning Magazine
>
>Life Learning - The International Magazine of Self-directed Learning is a
>new, high quality, bimonthly subscription magazine dedicated to providing
>trustworthy, inspiring information and a forum for discussion about
>self-directed, life-based learning.
>
>Explore how people learn - what helps and what hinders. Investigate ways to
>help kids learn (and what you can learn from them). Be inspired by other
>people's life learning experiences. Discover a wealth of resources that
>encourage active learning.
>
>Writers include well known authors from North America and abroad. They
>include John Taylor Gatto, Susannah Sheffer (former editor of the late
>Growing Without Schooling magazine), author Marty Layne, children´s
>entertainer Eric Nagler, author Jan Hunt, author and ALLPIE founder Katharine
>Houk, Zoe Redhead (principal of Summerhill School and daughter of founder AS
>Neill, as well as parents and self-educated young people.
>
>Articles in the first two issues include:
>·       Learning From Life - What Does it Really Mean?
>·       How do I Explain Why My Kids Learn at Home?
>·       Trusting People (of all ages) to Learn
>·       College & the Self-Educated Student
>·       When I was Very Little I Would Bang on the Piano
>·       From Womb to World: Rethinking Self-Education
>·       Finding My Deschooling Path (by a 15-year-old)
>·       Guidance versus Manipulation in the Deschooling Family
>·       Learning Disability - A Rose by Another Name
>·       The Hidden Agenda of Teaching
>
>Life Learning is published by Life Media, a 25-year-old consumer magazine and
>book publishing company. Its editor is Wendy Priesnitz, an award-winning
>journalist and author, parent of 28- and 30-year-old daughters who were
>deschooled, and one of North America´s deschooling pioneers (and consultant
>to John Holt when he was preparing to launch Growing Without Schooling
>magazine).
>
>The first issue is now in production, for publication March 1. Subscription,
>advertising and contributor information can be found on our website <A HREF="http://www.lifelearningmagazine.com/">
>http://www.lifelearningmagazine.com</A>.
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:31:13 -0700
> From: "Karin" <curtkar@...>
>Subject: Re: Distressed Carpets and Solutions
>
>Dawn, Sandra, others....
>I really hope the Folex works for you.
>One tip, especially for set-in, old stains, you may have to reapply 2 or 3 times before the stain goes away. But keep trying this way until it does. I watched my sister do this to a years-old stain of spilled essential oil on her white carpet, which she had tried every product out there on it. But she kept persisting with the Folex and the stain really did come out. Good luck to you!
>
>Karin
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 08:35:00 -0800
> From: Dan Vilter <dvilter@...>
>Subject: Re: moving
>
>on 2/6/02 1:39 PM, Joseph Fuerst at fuerst@... wrote:
>
>> AND some guidance and/or
>> stories of how people managed showing/selling the house with little ones
>> about.
>> Susan
>
>We sold the house ourselves over a weekend.
>
>We were browsing a book store and saw a book titled "How to sell your House
>(Home?) in Five Days." We bought it and followed its outline.
>
>It worked.
>
>The premise is essentially that you are having your own auction. The first
>three days, Wednesday through Friday, are spent advertising and making final
>preparations. You show the house on Saturday and Sunday while the kids are
>away with your spouse or a friend or relative. Interested parties leave
>their Names, phone numbers and what they are willing to pay. At 6pm on
>Sunday you call the highest bidders letting them know where they stand,
>allow them to modify their bids and continue till you've reached the highest
>price they are willing to spend.
>
>There are a few details that were crucial to how our sale went but the two
>main concepts that we were willing to function with were: 1, There are only
>so many people in the market to buy a house like ours at any one time. They
>can come by and look at the house over months or over the weekend. 2, The
>house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. What we think it
>is worth doesn't matter.
>
>We still had to make the house more than presentable, but it only had to be
>that way for a weekend.
>
>The price we got for our house was about 3 percent under market. Since we
>did not have to pay realtor commission, we netted 3 percent over market.
>
>With a new job 1500 miles away, starting in three weeks we were so relived
>to be landless peasants again. <G>
>
>-Dan Vilter
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:48:03 -0800 (PST)
> From: Sharon Rudd <bearspawprint@...>
>Subject: Eric
>
>MY HERO!!
>>
>> A few years ago--actually, more than a few years
>> ago--Eric (dh) was waiting
>> at a stop light behind someone who finished eating
>> something and threw the
>> wadded-up wrapping out the car window. Eric jumped
>> out of his car, ran
>> ahead, picked up the trash and said to the man
>> "excuse me sir, you dropped
>> this." The startled guy actually said "thank you"
>> and took it back! I don't
>> know if he detected sarcasm or not. (Today Eric
>> probably would have been
>> shot.)
>>
>> Another time he was driving along a lonely road and
>> a pick-up truck full of
>> junk roared past him. Awhile later it roared past
>> the other way, minus the
>> junk. He continued along until he found a lovely
>> spot in the woods where
>> these jerks had dumped all their trash and he spent
>> about a half-hour
>> digging around until he found an envelope with their
>> name and address on it.
>> He reported them to the police, who were so pleased
>> they called him back to
>> tell him when the "got' the guys.
>>
>> Don't be littering around Eric....
>>
>> Susan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:17:35 -0800
> From: Jocelyn Vilter <JVilter@...>
>Subject: Re: moving
>
>on 02/07/02 8:35 AM, Dan Vilter at dvilter@... wrote:
>
>> With a new job 1500 miles away, starting in three weeks we were so relived
>> to be landless peasants again. <G>
>
>One of the things we did as part of preparing the house, was not only throw
>a bunch of junk away <g>, but put a bunch of stuff in storage. We knew
>where we were moving (from TX to CA) and Dan had reason to make a trip out
>several weeks before the actual move, so we loaded up the truck and moved to
>Beverly... In reality, we rented the largest UHaul truck available and
>packed up more than half of our stuff, which he then drove out to CA and put
>in storage. We repainted the eaves (brick house), did some touch up
>painting inside, cleaned the carpet and washed the windows. But the single
>best thing we did was DITCH the STUFF. Made the house look much more um,
>presentable.
>
>Jocelyn
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:52:17 -0800
> From: Cindy <crma@...>
>Subject: Re: Evangalism
>
>
>
>freeform@... wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2002 13:22:45 -0800 Cindy <crma@...> writes:
>>
>> > It's a spin off from RU which is radical with a lot of wrangling on
>> it.
>>
>> Hmm. The ru I'm on has no wrangling. It's very, very quiet, maybe 10
>> posts a month It's mostly the TCS crowd, hosted on interversity now but
>> that's a recent change.
>>
>
>I should have used "was" in my statement. I left ru several years ago
>when a woman who lived in Sonoma county, CA and someone on the east
>coast kept arguing about every little thing. I'd get 20-40 posts a
>day and 80% was from those two.
>
>--
>
>Cindy Ferguson
>crma@...
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:21:31 -0800
> From: Elizabeth Hill <ecsamhill@...>
>Subject: Re: re: keeping unschooling free
>
>
>
>SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
>>
>> In what natural environment will adults totally question all their
>> **assumptions** about children?
>
>Thanks for taking the time to answer. I'm just going to pull out this
>one little part, which seems crucial to me. (It's helping me get my
>thoughts clear.)
>
>In general, the longer people have been alive, the more "assumptions"
>and "programming" or "rules of thumb" they are going to have in their
>heads.
>
>The youngest children seem to be the most spontaneous and open and
>observing people on the planet. Experience, especially negative
>experience, seems to close off possiblities and inclines us to
>pre-judge. (The flip side being that there may not be any judgement
>possible without experience.)
>
>OK -- I've gone way out into philosophy-land and I don't even have a map
>to get back.
>
>Betsy
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:32:18 -0800
> From: Elizabeth Hill <ecsamhill@...>
>Subject: Re: Re: Asking
>
>
>
>KathrynJB@... wrote:
>
>>
>> > Sandra,
>> > This is why I respect you. You speak with such respect and real joy
>>
>> > about your kids. Even if you were kicking my ass, ( and you
>> probably
>> > will<g>) and I was madder than mad, and couldn't remember all the
>> other
>> > things I respect about you as an experienced unschooling parent, I
>>
>> > would remember the way you talk about your kids.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> And that's one of the frustrations I have with some other alleged
>> unschoolers. I'm tired of people talking about their children in terms
>> of
>> their disabilities ("He's ADD.") or limitations, and just not seeming
>> to like
>> their children. I think liking your children is the biggest
>> requirement to
>> unschooling. Should be a requirement for having them, I think.
>
>I agree so much.
>
>If we ever have a magazine-style quiz, "Is Unschooling Right for You?",
>one of the first questions should be "Do you enjoy your kids?".
>Followed by "Do you have a sense of awe when you see your children
>developing?" And "Do you find the learning abilities of the human mind
>to be amazing?"
>
>I don't think I could unschool if I didn't think that my son already had
>amazing mojo working inside his head. (And I think every kid has it.)
>
>Betsy
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:37:33 -0800 (PST)
> From: Sharon Rudd <bearspawprint@...>
>Subject: Re: Meghan the Heroine: Re: Nancy's Post
>
>MY HEROINE!!!
>
>
>>
>> > A few years ago--actually, more than a few years
>> ago--Eric (dh)
>> was waiting
>> > at a stop light behind someone who finished eating
>> something
>> and threw the
>> > wadded-up wrapping out the car window. Eric jumped
>> out of
>> his car, ran
>> > ahead, picked up the trash and said to the man
>> "excuse me
>> sir, you dropped
>> > this." The startled guy actually said "thank you"
>> and took it back!
>> I don't
>> > know if he detected sarcasm or not. (Today Eric
>> probably
>> would have been
>> > shot.)
>> >
>> > Susan
>>
>> I've done this on several occasions. I have always
>> gotten the
>> same reaction. I think they're so shocked (and
>> probably
>> embarrassed) that they don't know what to say <g>.
>>
>> Meghan
>>
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
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>
>
>