Re: [AlwaysLearning] engineering discouragement was cool stuff
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In a message dated 2/5/02 7:36:10 AM, bearspawprint@... writes:
<< The point is that REAL engineers don't say things like
your !*&$^&^!!! neighbor did. Real engineers
encourage in subtle ways. >>
Not all engineers have good social skills.
You know some who are also nice people.
Engineering doesn't guarantee social and interpersonal skill. (In my
experience, and to hear my husband talk about the guys at work, I think it
precludes it in many cases.)
For the imagination you'd think engineers should have, some of the parties
we've gone to with themes have been lame. At a hat party, most of them were
wearing baseball caps. One guy wore a helicopter test pilot helmet, which
would have been really impressive except that he was a helicopter test pilot.
Keith wore a medieval-style helmet with ram's horns on it (a friend of ours
had made it). He was QUITE overdressed. I had a baby-bonnet on my
9-month-pregnant belly, and a leather biker cap on me. That was like going
nekkid by our regular standards, but I wasn't feeling at all well or
energetic. I was overdressed too. Most of the women didn't wear a hat at
all. And we took a cake, made like a hat. Like a big "Billy Jack" black
felt hat, with a concho hatband and a feather! Other people brought doritos
and bought-dip.
Engineers...
Give me the artist/musician/theatre crowd ANYTIME.
Sandra, whose musician husband has a minor in theatre, but happens to be an
engineer on the side, for money
<< The point is that REAL engineers don't say things like
your !*&$^&^!!! neighbor did. Real engineers
encourage in subtle ways. >>
Not all engineers have good social skills.
You know some who are also nice people.
Engineering doesn't guarantee social and interpersonal skill. (In my
experience, and to hear my husband talk about the guys at work, I think it
precludes it in many cases.)
For the imagination you'd think engineers should have, some of the parties
we've gone to with themes have been lame. At a hat party, most of them were
wearing baseball caps. One guy wore a helicopter test pilot helmet, which
would have been really impressive except that he was a helicopter test pilot.
Keith wore a medieval-style helmet with ram's horns on it (a friend of ours
had made it). He was QUITE overdressed. I had a baby-bonnet on my
9-month-pregnant belly, and a leather biker cap on me. That was like going
nekkid by our regular standards, but I wasn't feeling at all well or
energetic. I was overdressed too. Most of the women didn't wear a hat at
all. And we took a cake, made like a hat. Like a big "Billy Jack" black
felt hat, with a concho hatband and a feather! Other people brought doritos
and bought-dip.
Engineers...
Give me the artist/musician/theatre crowd ANYTIME.
Sandra, whose musician husband has a minor in theatre, but happens to be an
engineer on the side, for money
Pat Cald...
>Not all engineers have good social skills.My neighbor is not an engineer and obviously not a very nice person.
I told dd I mentioned the incident to my list friends and that someone had said how awful it was. Dd said whenever the neighbor says stuff like that she just thinks less of her. I'm glad she didn't think less of herself. The fact that dd mentioned it to me means it did have some impact but she turned it around. I told her about how amazing I think her problem solving skills are since she looks at all the possibilities. She said "yea that is why I don't always get the right answer". Of course I set her straight on that one. Thank you very much ps!
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In a message dated 2/5/02 10:36:26 AM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
<< Dd said whenever the neighbor says stuff like that she just thinks less of
her. I'm glad she didn't think less of herself. >>
Holly has come back with comments from lots of people. We laugh, and she
says "I would never say anything like that to someone!" For a child with
less confidence, or one who was not in the habit of sharing such things with
parents, it could erode joy, though, for sure.
When neighbors told Marty and Holly, years ago at the old neighborhood, that
if they didn't go to school they could never get a job, I just started naming
off people they knew who had jobs who were still teens, or who were working
in fields for which they weren't trained, or for which there WAS not
training, and pointed out (with guilty joy, which I tried to keep out of my
voice and posture) that the dad of those kids was unemployed and he DID go to
school, he just wasn't good at keeping a job.
A month or so ago I did talk to the dad of another little girl. The little
girl had told Holly if she didn't go to school she could never go to college.
Holly knows it's not true, but this little girl was totally convinced of it,
and was worried for Holly. I told the dad, because I knew it was his doing.
His ex-wife was homeschooling and he wanted the girl in school, so it was
part of his package of soothing persuasion. "I want you to be able to go to
college, and get a good job."
In her case it's legitimate. The mom was maximally neglectful and ignorant,
and has series of live-in short term boyfriends, and is mean and violent.
(Currently in jail.) That wasn't a good homeschooling environment.
That doesn't make ours a bad homeschooling environment.
That was easily fixable.
Sandra
<< Dd said whenever the neighbor says stuff like that she just thinks less of
her. I'm glad she didn't think less of herself. >>
Holly has come back with comments from lots of people. We laugh, and she
says "I would never say anything like that to someone!" For a child with
less confidence, or one who was not in the habit of sharing such things with
parents, it could erode joy, though, for sure.
When neighbors told Marty and Holly, years ago at the old neighborhood, that
if they didn't go to school they could never get a job, I just started naming
off people they knew who had jobs who were still teens, or who were working
in fields for which they weren't trained, or for which there WAS not
training, and pointed out (with guilty joy, which I tried to keep out of my
voice and posture) that the dad of those kids was unemployed and he DID go to
school, he just wasn't good at keeping a job.
A month or so ago I did talk to the dad of another little girl. The little
girl had told Holly if she didn't go to school she could never go to college.
Holly knows it's not true, but this little girl was totally convinced of it,
and was worried for Holly. I told the dad, because I knew it was his doing.
His ex-wife was homeschooling and he wanted the girl in school, so it was
part of his package of soothing persuasion. "I want you to be able to go to
college, and get a good job."
In her case it's legitimate. The mom was maximally neglectful and ignorant,
and has series of live-in short term boyfriends, and is mean and violent.
(Currently in jail.) That wasn't a good homeschooling environment.
That doesn't make ours a bad homeschooling environment.
That was easily fixable.
Sandra
Dan Vilter
So I'll admit that there is a greater percentage of party impaired people in
just about any group of engineers than in the population as a whole, but
I've been to too many parties where actors or singers go on and on and on,
mostly about themselves, to ever willing go to a party with a crowd of them.
I also see a reverse proportion of interest between the arts and sciences:
Far more scientists and engineers, have a solid understanding of the arts
than artists have of science and engineering.
I'd rather spend my party time with the engineers...
This does remind me of one of my favorite engineer jokes though-
How do you know that your talking with an *extroverted* engineer?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
They're looking at YOUR shoes!
-Dan Vilter, who manages all the technical aspects of a performing arts
center and who works with the artist/musician/theatre crowd all the time,
and who has enjoyed talking to Sandra's part time engineer husband.
just about any group of engineers than in the population as a whole, but
I've been to too many parties where actors or singers go on and on and on,
mostly about themselves, to ever willing go to a party with a crowd of them.
I also see a reverse proportion of interest between the arts and sciences:
Far more scientists and engineers, have a solid understanding of the arts
than artists have of science and engineering.
I'd rather spend my party time with the engineers...
This does remind me of one of my favorite engineer jokes though-
How do you know that your talking with an *extroverted* engineer?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
They're looking at YOUR shoes!
-Dan Vilter, who manages all the technical aspects of a performing arts
center and who works with the artist/musician/theatre crowd all the time,
and who has enjoyed talking to Sandra's part time engineer husband.
>on 2/5/02 7:27 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
> Engineers...
> Give me the artist/musician/theatre crowd ANYTIME.
>
> Sandra, whose musician husband has a minor in theatre, but happens to be an
> engineer on the side, for money
Sharon Rudd
Oh dear, some of those engineers were awful. The
uncle geological engineer had rocks in his head. I
spent a summer (8) with his family. I saw him bounce
my cousin, Sonny's head off the wall becuase he was a
few minutes late to Sunday dinner. He was
unreasonable in other ways, too. Patricia, and Joey,
the next youngest after Sonny, killed themselves. The
step-father civil engineer held me by one foot in the
air while he "spanked" me....in front of a room of
other children as I had continued to sing softly when
we were all told to be quiet. I was too embarrassed to
cry. My clothing fell over my head exposing my
panties. He was much worse to my brothers. Of course,
that was not an isolated incident. BUT he taught me to
use a slide rule when I was 4....because I wanted to
know how it worked. The grandfather( he was already in
his 60s when mother was born) beat my (Canasta
playing) grandmother and molested my mother (she used
him as a model for adult behaviour) who became the
suicidal alcoholic, who set me up for similar
experiences, except she did a good portion of the
beating herself. Except for a few visits with (those
damned Clavinists, as my mother called them) my father
and his parents before age 6, and court paternity
hearings about one of my little brothers, I didn't see
the father, electrical engineer, until I was 17. When
I was 18 he came to my apartment and my roommate
almost called the police (we didn't have a phone) as
he claimed to be my father. The common denomitaor
is/was my mother. They all had rotten interpersonal
skills. That is one reason that they were attracted
to the discernable order of engineering. And not one
of them ever discouraged anybody from the field....any
interest evidenced was considered flattery. The only
really nice one, is G'Ma Louise. She redeemed my
father. I met her when I met him. But she once
(?)slugged (knocked him down with a fist directed to
his face) my half-brother (I met him when I was in my
twenties) and he committed an armed robbery when he
was in high-school. He committed some other vandalisms
on the school, too. He is now a historian who does
roofing for money. G'Ma blames it on the "wrong"
crowd. Dunno.
When I took custody of my sister, denying it to her
father (the civil engineer step-father) I found that
it was necessary to create a civil :) working
relationship with her Daddy, for her. She loves him.
It has all worked out, relatively :) speaking since.
When my littlest brother got back from Vietnam he was
a wreck, but needed somewhere to live. Our father,
G'Pa Bill, the electrical engineer, and G'Ma Louise
had just showed me their slides from Tibet and Nepal
so I approached them from the standpoint of Karma.
They didn't know what I was talking about, but they
had 4 or so empty bedrooms and lots of other space :)
so they invited him (thank you thank you)to
Huntsville, and he's been there since.
I was previously talking about the good part of them.
They are human beings. There is much more good and
much more bad than I can possibly recount.
.............
Sandra, it sounds like YOU generate the good energy
everywhere! Even a hat cake! And bonnet on your tummy.
Awwwww. You are a good sport! And Keith, too.
I've never been to a theme party, well, except once,
BETWEEN marriages (note BETWEEN, Dar and Mhagin,
Maghin...where does that h go?). It was a mystery
"who-done-it" party. Kind of like sort of grown-ups
playing detectives. The interesting part was that
they actually took the time out of their lives to do
it...just for fun, for themselves. It wasn't FOR
anything. Not a benefit, or holiday, or child's
birthday. The hostess and the guests were European,
except for me. Are Americans fuddy-duddies compared to
others? Or just the folks I now know?
Hmmmm. Maybe a pow-wow could be called a theme party?
I've participated in some of couple of those...
Sharon, whose musician XDH was a physicist who did
stage sound and residential carpentry for money and
whose DH is a "wild-man of the woods", who runs
locomotives for money
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
uncle geological engineer had rocks in his head. I
spent a summer (8) with his family. I saw him bounce
my cousin, Sonny's head off the wall becuase he was a
few minutes late to Sunday dinner. He was
unreasonable in other ways, too. Patricia, and Joey,
the next youngest after Sonny, killed themselves. The
step-father civil engineer held me by one foot in the
air while he "spanked" me....in front of a room of
other children as I had continued to sing softly when
we were all told to be quiet. I was too embarrassed to
cry. My clothing fell over my head exposing my
panties. He was much worse to my brothers. Of course,
that was not an isolated incident. BUT he taught me to
use a slide rule when I was 4....because I wanted to
know how it worked. The grandfather( he was already in
his 60s when mother was born) beat my (Canasta
playing) grandmother and molested my mother (she used
him as a model for adult behaviour) who became the
suicidal alcoholic, who set me up for similar
experiences, except she did a good portion of the
beating herself. Except for a few visits with (those
damned Clavinists, as my mother called them) my father
and his parents before age 6, and court paternity
hearings about one of my little brothers, I didn't see
the father, electrical engineer, until I was 17. When
I was 18 he came to my apartment and my roommate
almost called the police (we didn't have a phone) as
he claimed to be my father. The common denomitaor
is/was my mother. They all had rotten interpersonal
skills. That is one reason that they were attracted
to the discernable order of engineering. And not one
of them ever discouraged anybody from the field....any
interest evidenced was considered flattery. The only
really nice one, is G'Ma Louise. She redeemed my
father. I met her when I met him. But she once
(?)slugged (knocked him down with a fist directed to
his face) my half-brother (I met him when I was in my
twenties) and he committed an armed robbery when he
was in high-school. He committed some other vandalisms
on the school, too. He is now a historian who does
roofing for money. G'Ma blames it on the "wrong"
crowd. Dunno.
When I took custody of my sister, denying it to her
father (the civil engineer step-father) I found that
it was necessary to create a civil :) working
relationship with her Daddy, for her. She loves him.
It has all worked out, relatively :) speaking since.
When my littlest brother got back from Vietnam he was
a wreck, but needed somewhere to live. Our father,
G'Pa Bill, the electrical engineer, and G'Ma Louise
had just showed me their slides from Tibet and Nepal
so I approached them from the standpoint of Karma.
They didn't know what I was talking about, but they
had 4 or so empty bedrooms and lots of other space :)
so they invited him (thank you thank you)to
Huntsville, and he's been there since.
I was previously talking about the good part of them.
They are human beings. There is much more good and
much more bad than I can possibly recount.
.............
Sandra, it sounds like YOU generate the good energy
everywhere! Even a hat cake! And bonnet on your tummy.
Awwwww. You are a good sport! And Keith, too.
I've never been to a theme party, well, except once,
BETWEEN marriages (note BETWEEN, Dar and Mhagin,
Maghin...where does that h go?). It was a mystery
"who-done-it" party. Kind of like sort of grown-ups
playing detectives. The interesting part was that
they actually took the time out of their lives to do
it...just for fun, for themselves. It wasn't FOR
anything. Not a benefit, or holiday, or child's
birthday. The hostess and the guests were European,
except for me. Are Americans fuddy-duddies compared to
others? Or just the folks I now know?
Hmmmm. Maybe a pow-wow could be called a theme party?
I've participated in some of couple of those...
Sharon, whose musician XDH was a physicist who did
stage sound and residential carpentry for money and
whose DH is a "wild-man of the woods", who runs
locomotives for money
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>__________________________________________________
> In a message dated 2/5/02 7:36:10 AM,
> bearspawprint@... writes:
>
> << The point is that REAL engineers don't say things
> like
> your !*&$^&^!!! neighbor did. Real engineers
> encourage in subtle ways. >>
>
> Not all engineers have good social skills.
>
> You know some who are also nice people.
>
> Engineering doesn't guarantee social and
> interpersonal skill. (In my
> experience, and to hear my husband talk about the
> guys at work, I think it
> precludes it in many cases.)
>
> For the imagination you'd think engineers should
> have, some of the parties
> we've gone to with themes have been lame. At a hat
> party, most of them were
> wearing baseball caps. One guy wore a helicopter
> test pilot helmet, which
> would have been really impressive except that he was
> a helicopter test pilot.
>
> Keith wore a medieval-style helmet with ram's horns
> on it (a friend of ours
> had made it). He was QUITE overdressed. I had a
> baby-bonnet on my
> 9-month-pregnant belly, and a leather biker cap on
> me. That was like going
> nekkid by our regular standards, but I wasn't
> feeling at all well or
> energetic. I was overdressed too. Most of the
> women didn't wear a hat at
> all. And we took a cake, made like a hat. Like a
> big "Billy Jack" black
> felt hat, with a concho hatband and a feather!
> Other people brought doritos
> and bought-dip.
>
> Engineers...
> Give me the artist/musician/theatre crowd ANYTIME.
>
> Sandra, whose musician husband has a minor in
> theatre, but happens to be an
> engineer on the side, for money
>
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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[email protected]
In a message dated 2/5/02 11:06:40 AM, dvilter@... writes:
<< I also see a reverse proportion of interest between the arts and sciences:
Far more scientists and engineers, have a solid understanding of the arts
than artists have of science and engineering.
<<I'd rather spend my party time with the engineers... >>
You're right, Dan.
I'll just pick and choose among individuals as I have been doing. <g>
I'll keep trying to gather the the modest and well-rounded artsies, and the
artsy engineers!
Sandra
<< I also see a reverse proportion of interest between the arts and sciences:
Far more scientists and engineers, have a solid understanding of the arts
than artists have of science and engineering.
<<I'd rather spend my party time with the engineers... >>
You're right, Dan.
I'll just pick and choose among individuals as I have been doing. <g>
I'll keep trying to gather the the modest and well-rounded artsies, and the
artsy engineers!
Sandra
Sharon Rudd
You daughter will be whatever she will be AND a nice
person. She already is nice.....and astute too. Too
bad about the neihgbor. Wonder why some people feel
compelled to make comments like that?
Sharon of the Swamp
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person. She already is nice.....and astute too. Too
bad about the neihgbor. Wonder why some people feel
compelled to make comments like that?
Sharon of the Swamp
> My neighbor is not an engineer and obviously not a__________________________________________________
> very nice person.
>
> I told dd I mentioned the incident to my list
> friends and that someone had said how awful it was.
> Dd said whenever the neighbor says stuff like that
> she just thinks less of her. I'm glad she didn't
> think less of herself. The fact that dd mentioned
> it to me means it did have some impact but she
> turned it around. I told her about how amazing I
> think her problem solving skills are since she looks
> at all the possibilities. She said "yea that is why
> I don't always get the right answer". Of course I
> set her straight on that one. Thank you very much
> ps!
>
> Pat
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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