I need to be built back up..
Nichoel
After having a group of eclectic homeschoolers that call themselves unschoolers attack, belittle, and berate me for simply asking what their 'definition' of unschooling was, and then saying that the definitions they hold true were not the ones I have for myself.
Someone please remind me that I am not intolerant, disruptive, rude, or a trouble maker simply by asking questions and making people look at themselves?
I am especially licking my wounds over, after posting 'my' definition of unschooling at the list's request, getting this in response:
"You know, I guess by your definition I am not an unschooler. Because I don't think it's wise to leave the education of my children up to my children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major in Barbie?
I want my children to explore their interests, yes. I want my children to find out what excites them, what interests them, what they feel passion for. But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once they are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future without my guidance now. I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to say this, but I think I know what is best for my children more than they do. To leave it all up to them, to me, would be the same as neglecting their education all together. "
I am a new unschooler so of course this feeds on all of my 'fears' way deep down inside..Someone remind me that I *AM* doing the right thing!!!!
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Someone please remind me that I am not intolerant, disruptive, rude, or a trouble maker simply by asking questions and making people look at themselves?
I am especially licking my wounds over, after posting 'my' definition of unschooling at the list's request, getting this in response:
"You know, I guess by your definition I am not an unschooler. Because I don't think it's wise to leave the education of my children up to my children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major in Barbie?
I want my children to explore their interests, yes. I want my children to find out what excites them, what interests them, what they feel passion for. But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once they are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future without my guidance now. I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to say this, but I think I know what is best for my children more than they do. To leave it all up to them, to me, would be the same as neglecting their education all together. "
I am a new unschooler so of course this feeds on all of my 'fears' way deep down inside..Someone remind me that I *AM* doing the right thing!!!!
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pat Cald...
From: Nichoel
It might be easier to respond to your specific fears and ideas than the examples of responses of others.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I am especially licking my wounds over, after posting 'my' definition of unschooling at the >list's request, getting this in response:What was the definition of unschooling you posted? (If it is not rude of me to ask <g>)
It might be easier to respond to your specific fears and ideas than the examples of responses of others.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<
"You know, I guess by your definition I am not an unschooler. Because I
don't think it's wise to leave the education of my children up to my
children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for
difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of
their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major
in Barbie? >>
Wow, This hurt me that someone would be so blind to the idea of a child is a
person.. Nichoel, I'm sorry you had to go through that.
How DO we get people to understand? I totally understand when Sandra is
blunt and forceful. It is tiring to deal with those who have no desire to
open their minds.
Elissa, who will soon be singing
Yippee - Kai - Yay!
-----Original Message-----
From: Nichoel <stormyrain73@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:46 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] I need to be built back up..
'definition' of unschooling was, and then saying that the definitions they
hold true were not the ones I have for myself.
themselves?
children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for
difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of
their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major
in Barbie?
But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once they
are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without
appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently
and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future
without my guidance now. I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to
say this, but I think I know what is best for my children more than they do.
To leave it all up to them, to me, would be the same as neglecting their
education all together. "
"You know, I guess by your definition I am not an unschooler. Because I
don't think it's wise to leave the education of my children up to my
children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for
difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of
their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major
in Barbie? >>
Wow, This hurt me that someone would be so blind to the idea of a child is a
person.. Nichoel, I'm sorry you had to go through that.
How DO we get people to understand? I totally understand when Sandra is
blunt and forceful. It is tiring to deal with those who have no desire to
open their minds.
Elissa, who will soon be singing
Yippee - Kai - Yay!
-----Original Message-----
From: Nichoel <stormyrain73@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:46 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] I need to be built back up..
>After having a group of eclectic homeschoolers that call themselvesunschoolers attack, belittle, and berate me for simply asking what their
'definition' of unschooling was, and then saying that the definitions they
hold true were not the ones I have for myself.
>trouble maker simply by asking questions and making people look at
>Someone please remind me that I am not intolerant, disruptive, rude, or a
themselves?
>unschooling at the list's request, getting this in response:
>I am especially licking my wounds over, after posting 'my' definition of
>don't think it's wise to leave the education of my children up to my
>"You know, I guess by your definition I am not an unschooler. Because I
children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for
difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of
their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major
in Barbie?
>find out what excites them, what interests them, what they feel passion for.
>I want my children to explore their interests, yes. I want my children to
But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once they
are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without
appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently
and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future
without my guidance now. I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to
say this, but I think I know what is best for my children more than they do.
To leave it all up to them, to me, would be the same as neglecting their
education all together. "
>down inside..Someone remind me that I *AM* doing the right thing!!!!
>I am a new unschooler so of course this feeds on all of my 'fears' way deep
>
>
>Nichoel
>
>Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
>Now you CAN conceive online..
>www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
[email protected]
<<Someone remind me that I *AM* doing the right thing!!!!
Nichoel>>
You are.
Elissa, who will soon be singing
Yippee - Kai - Yay!
-----Original Message-----
From: Nichoel <stormyrain73@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:46 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] I need to be built back up..
'definition' of unschooling was, and then saying that the definitions they
hold true were not the ones I have for myself.
themselves?
children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for
difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of
their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major
in Barbie?
But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once they
are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without
appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently
and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future
without my guidance now. I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to
say this, but I think I know what is best for my children more than they do.
To leave it all up to them, to me, would be the same as neglecting their
education all together. "
Nichoel>>
You are.
Elissa, who will soon be singing
Yippee - Kai - Yay!
-----Original Message-----
From: Nichoel <stormyrain73@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:46 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] I need to be built back up..
>After having a group of eclectic homeschoolers that call themselvesunschoolers attack, belittle, and berate me for simply asking what their
'definition' of unschooling was, and then saying that the definitions they
hold true were not the ones I have for myself.
>trouble maker simply by asking questions and making people look at
>Someone please remind me that I am not intolerant, disruptive, rude, or a
themselves?
>unschooling at the list's request, getting this in response:
>I am especially licking my wounds over, after posting 'my' definition of
>don't think it's wise to leave the education of my children up to my
>"You know, I guess by your definition I am not an unschooler. Because I
children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for
difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of
their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major
in Barbie?
>find out what excites them, what interests them, what they feel passion for.
>I want my children to explore their interests, yes. I want my children to
But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once they
are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without
appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently
and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future
without my guidance now. I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to
say this, but I think I know what is best for my children more than they do.
To leave it all up to them, to me, would be the same as neglecting their
education all together. "
>down inside..Someone remind me that I *AM* doing the right thing!!!!
>I am a new unschooler so of course this feeds on all of my 'fears' way deep
>
>
>Nichoel
>
>Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
>Now you CAN conceive online..
>www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Nichoel
Pat:
Here is the email I sent out titled "Nichoel's definition of unschooling":
Unschooling to me is completely child led learning; trusting that your child will learn from life and experiences without the need for adult lead and structured learning..IE: We only 'do' what Shanika wants to do as far as her daily schedule goes (with the exception of family errands and the like) I dont use a curriculum to try and facilitate learning with Shanika anymore, we allow her to explore her own likes/dislikes and go from there..We try not to 'create' too many 'things' for Shanika to do, but if she asks for ideas/help/etc I am there to help her find her own direction..
If you remember the ONLY reason I brought this up was because of a comment about curriculum "Wow, I'm so glad to hear James is liking the book! Lara is still working out of hers too. ****We try to work out of it 3 or 4 days a week. It's just a great way to make sure they're keeping up, ya know?****" (by Heather)...*that* is what peeked my interest because in *my* definition of unschooling that goes against the basic principle (Of strictly child led learning).. Linda did come back and explain why she does that with her son and I fully understand and can relate to it....Now I understand Heather's point of view and Linda's a bit better...but in my eyes there is nothing for Shanika to 'keep up' with; as part of my unschooling I have thrown out the 'bars' and 'goals' the public school has, so she is never ahead, behind, or even on the same level as anyone else..Her learning is strictly hers. Am I making sense here? I am not saying Heather and Linda are wrong in their views, they are just different than mine =).
Yes Shanika uses workbooks (I've said this but it must have gotten lost..) she has one for handwriting she is really into right now..She picks it up when she feels like it and puts it down when she does as well..She has unfettered access to all things around her including TV and the CPU. I dont tell to or coerce her into using anything...She could NEVER pick up a geometry book and that would be OK with me..She could NEVER learn cursive and that would be ok with me...
To *ME* there are several different types of homeschoolers: School at home (strict curriculum users) Eclectic (will use curriculum in a non child led way for some subjects/will unschool on some issues/nice mix of both) and Unschoolers (completely child led learning).
When I "see" unschooling in the title of a group I relate it to what MY definition of unschooling is, that is why I asked what other people see unschooling as, because I gleaned that my definition and someone elses may not match. To me some of the people on this list are eclectic homeschoolers, and that is *great*; I dont behoove anyone their way of teaching their children, nor do I think 'my' way is 'better' than anyone elses..I just need to know what 'angle' on unschooling/homeschooling everyone has so that I can better understand their point of view ..
"Birds fly, fish swim, man thinks and learns. Therefore, we do not need to motivate children into learning by wheedling, bribing or bullying. We do not need to keep picking away at their minds to make sure they are learning. What we need to do, and all we need to do, is bring as much of the world as we can into the school and classroom (in our case, into their lives); give children as much help and guidance as they ask for; listen respectfully when they feel like talking; and then get out of the way. We can trust them to do the rest." ~John Holt
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
Here is the email I sent out titled "Nichoel's definition of unschooling":
Unschooling to me is completely child led learning; trusting that your child will learn from life and experiences without the need for adult lead and structured learning..IE: We only 'do' what Shanika wants to do as far as her daily schedule goes (with the exception of family errands and the like) I dont use a curriculum to try and facilitate learning with Shanika anymore, we allow her to explore her own likes/dislikes and go from there..We try not to 'create' too many 'things' for Shanika to do, but if she asks for ideas/help/etc I am there to help her find her own direction..
If you remember the ONLY reason I brought this up was because of a comment about curriculum "Wow, I'm so glad to hear James is liking the book! Lara is still working out of hers too. ****We try to work out of it 3 or 4 days a week. It's just a great way to make sure they're keeping up, ya know?****" (by Heather)...*that* is what peeked my interest because in *my* definition of unschooling that goes against the basic principle (Of strictly child led learning).. Linda did come back and explain why she does that with her son and I fully understand and can relate to it....Now I understand Heather's point of view and Linda's a bit better...but in my eyes there is nothing for Shanika to 'keep up' with; as part of my unschooling I have thrown out the 'bars' and 'goals' the public school has, so she is never ahead, behind, or even on the same level as anyone else..Her learning is strictly hers. Am I making sense here? I am not saying Heather and Linda are wrong in their views, they are just different than mine =).
Yes Shanika uses workbooks (I've said this but it must have gotten lost..) she has one for handwriting she is really into right now..She picks it up when she feels like it and puts it down when she does as well..She has unfettered access to all things around her including TV and the CPU. I dont tell to or coerce her into using anything...She could NEVER pick up a geometry book and that would be OK with me..She could NEVER learn cursive and that would be ok with me...
To *ME* there are several different types of homeschoolers: School at home (strict curriculum users) Eclectic (will use curriculum in a non child led way for some subjects/will unschool on some issues/nice mix of both) and Unschoolers (completely child led learning).
When I "see" unschooling in the title of a group I relate it to what MY definition of unschooling is, that is why I asked what other people see unschooling as, because I gleaned that my definition and someone elses may not match. To me some of the people on this list are eclectic homeschoolers, and that is *great*; I dont behoove anyone their way of teaching their children, nor do I think 'my' way is 'better' than anyone elses..I just need to know what 'angle' on unschooling/homeschooling everyone has so that I can better understand their point of view ..
"Birds fly, fish swim, man thinks and learns. Therefore, we do not need to motivate children into learning by wheedling, bribing or bullying. We do not need to keep picking away at their minds to make sure they are learning. What we need to do, and all we need to do, is bring as much of the world as we can into the school and classroom (in our case, into their lives); give children as much help and guidance as they ask for; listen respectfully when they feel like talking; and then get out of the way. We can trust them to do the rest." ~John Holt
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Cald...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] I need to be built back up..
From: Nichoel
>I am especially licking my wounds over, after posting 'my' definition of unschooling at the >list's request, getting this in response:
What was the definition of unschooling you posted? (If it is not rude of me to ask <g>)
It might be easier to respond to your specific fears and ideas than the examples of responses of others.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nichoel
Dar,
Oh trust me I agree whole heartedly!
The other list of unschoolers however dont. They think that attitude fits right in with the unschooling philosophy; that unschooling is a large umbrella the encompasses it ALL!
(VENTING)
I have no problem with how they are schooling their kids, heck they can call it unschooling if they want..All *I* was trying to do was see if they were unschooling in 'my' reality or somewhere else (Obviously the answer is somewhere else..).
What got me about the ENTIRE thread was that I never, not once, was confrontational about the word unschooling. I never said "You are not unschoolers!" because quite frankly after reading their definitions I knew where that would get me...All I ever said was 'my definition for us is different, now I know where you are coming from so I wont be surprised when you put things out that are different than my view'....And in return I got fire brimstone and name calling.
And they said *I* am intolerant?!?
(Venting off)
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
Oh trust me I agree whole heartedly!
The other list of unschoolers however dont. They think that attitude fits right in with the unschooling philosophy; that unschooling is a large umbrella the encompasses it ALL!
(VENTING)
I have no problem with how they are schooling their kids, heck they can call it unschooling if they want..All *I* was trying to do was see if they were unschooling in 'my' reality or somewhere else (Obviously the answer is somewhere else..).
What got me about the ENTIRE thread was that I never, not once, was confrontational about the word unschooling. I never said "You are not unschoolers!" because quite frankly after reading their definitions I knew where that would get me...All I ever said was 'my definition for us is different, now I know where you are coming from so I wont be surprised when you put things out that are different than my view'....And in return I got fire brimstone and name calling.
And they said *I* am intolerant?!?
(Venting off)
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: freeform@...
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] I need to be built back up..
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:42:52 -0800 "Nichoel" <stormyrain73@...>
writes:
> I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to say this, but
> I think I know what is best for my children more than they do.
And this is really the core of the whole thing, right here. This
letting-go and trusting that they will develop the skills they need to
function in society, that they do know what's best for them right now and
they will continue to discover what's best for them in the future. If you
get this down, you're home free; if not, you're not on the boat.
They need to be running the show, not you.
dar
________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:42:52 -0800 "Nichoel" <stormyrain73@...>
writes:
letting-go and trusting that they will develop the skills they need to
function in society, that they do know what's best for them right now and
they will continue to discover what's best for them in the future. If you
get this down, you're home free; if not, you're not on the boat.
They need to be running the show, not you.
dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
writes:
> I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to say this, butAnd this is really the core of the whole thing, right here. This
> I think I know what is best for my children more than they do.
letting-go and trusting that they will develop the skills they need to
function in society, that they do know what's best for them right now and
they will continue to discover what's best for them in the future. If you
get this down, you're home free; if not, you're not on the boat.
They need to be running the show, not you.
dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
[email protected]
Sorry this was unclear... it's a response to whoever said that stuff, not
to you directly. I tend to miss quotes marks, I've spent too many years
counting the >'s
You're doing fine!
Dar
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:55:27 -0700 freeform@... writes:
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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to you directly. I tend to miss quotes marks, I've spent too many years
counting the >'s
You're doing fine!
Dar
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:55:27 -0700 freeform@... writes:
>________________________________________________________________
>
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:42:52 -0800 "Nichoel" <stormyrain73@...>
> writes:
> > I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to say this, but
> > I think I know what is best for my children more than they do.
>
> And this is really the core of the whole thing, right here. This
> letting-go and trusting that they will develop the skills they need
> to function in society, that they do know what's best for them right
> now and they will continue to discover what's best for them in the
> future. If you get this down, you're home free; if not, you're not
> on the boat.
>
> They need to be running the show, not you.
>
> dar
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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Nichoel
Oh I didnt think you though I said it etc..
I was just venting in general, since I havent vented about the whole thing yet..It really irked me, especially because this was a local group that I had high hopes of hooking up with from time to time!
Hah! not anymore, one member was so vindictive that I doubt anything she could say would make me feel even remotely comfortable with her IRL..
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
I was just venting in general, since I havent vented about the whole thing yet..It really irked me, especially because this was a local group that I had high hopes of hooking up with from time to time!
Hah! not anymore, one member was so vindictive that I doubt anything she could say would make me feel even remotely comfortable with her IRL..
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: freeform@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] I need to be built back up..
Sorry this was unclear... it's a response to whoever said that stuff, not
to you directly. I tend to miss quotes marks, I've spent too many years
counting the >'s
You're doing fine!
Dar
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:55:27 -0700 freeform@... writes:
>
>
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:42:52 -0800 "Nichoel" <stormyrain73@...>
> writes:
> > I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to say this, but
> > I think I know what is best for my children more than they do.
>
> And this is really the core of the whole thing, right here. This
> letting-go and trusting that they will develop the skills they need
> to function in society, that they do know what's best for them right
> now and they will continue to discover what's best for them in the
> future. If you get this down, you're home free; if not, you're not
> on the boat.
>
> They need to be running the show, not you.
>
> dar
________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joanna514
You're probably considered radical, or dogmatic to them now.
You can either keep posting your ideals and probably be a guiding
light to some, or choose not to frustrate yourself, and move on.
But certainly don't let some lady who obviosly has no trust in
children, make you feel stressed.
Joanna
You can either keep posting your ideals and probably be a guiding
light to some, or choose not to frustrate yourself, and move on.
But certainly don't let some lady who obviosly has no trust in
children, make you feel stressed.
Joanna
--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., "Nichoel" <stormyrain73@a...> wrote:
> After having a group of eclectic homeschoolers that call themselves
unschoolers attack, belittle, and berate me for simply asking what
their 'definition' of unschooling was, and then saying that the
definitions they hold true were not the ones I have for myself.
>
> Someone please remind me that I am not intolerant, disruptive,
rude, or a trouble maker simply by asking questions and making people
look at themselves?
>
> I am especially licking my wounds over, after posting 'my'
definition of unschooling at the list's request, getting this in
response:
>
> "You know, I guess by your definition I am not an unschooler.
Because I don't think it's wise to leave the education of my children
up to my children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my
children up for difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my
children will meet all of their educational needs on ONLY the things
they want to do. Can you major in Barbie?
>
> I want my children to explore their interests, yes. I want my
children to find out what excites them, what interests them, what
they feel passion for. But I also want them to have the skills to
function in our society once they are on their own. I want them to
be able to write a letter without appearing to be a moron to someone
else. I want them to speak intelligently and with confidence. And
I don't think they can do that in the future without my guidance
now. I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to say this, but I
think I know what is best for my children more than they do. To
leave it all up to them, to me, would be the same as neglecting their
education all together. "
>
> I am a new unschooler so of course this feeds on all of my 'fears'
way deep down inside..Someone remind me that I *AM* doing the right
thing!!!!
>
>
> Nichoel
>
> Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
> Now you CAN conceive online..
> www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tracy
Nichoel,
You were very civil about the whole thing. I know, I was there! I didn't want to send you a personal message because of the accusation that we 'troublemakers' knew each other. I think people who are so defensive must be very unsure of themselves. Just want you to know, I think you handled the whole thread very well.
Tracy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You were very civil about the whole thing. I know, I was there! I didn't want to send you a personal message because of the accusation that we 'troublemakers' knew each other. I think people who are so defensive must be very unsure of themselves. Just want you to know, I think you handled the whole thread very well.
Tracy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
Nichoel,
Send 'em to unschooling.com, home of the unschooling pros. of the world.
The person who claimed to be an unschooler definitely was not. And all that stuff she wrote about "I want this and that for my child" just shows that she is lacking one basic important thing. Trust. Sounds to me like she is homeschooling her kids and that's a whole different thing.
Unschooling is a whole different philosophy about learning and life than she was talking about.
You *are* doing the right thing.
Karin
Nichoel wrote:
After having a group of eclectic homeschoolers that call themselves unschoolers attack, belittle, and berate me for simply asking what their 'definition' of unschooling was, and then saying that the definitions they hold true were not the ones I have for myself.
Someone please remind me that I am not intolerant, disruptive, rude, or a trouble maker simply by asking questions and making people look at themselves?
I am especially licking my wounds over, after posting 'my' definition of unschooling at the list's request, getting this in response:
"You know, I guess by your definition I am not an unschooler. Because I don't think it's wise to leave the education of my children up to my children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major in Barbie?
I want my children to explore their interests, yes. I want my children to find out what excites them, what interests them, what they feel passion for. But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once they are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future without my guidance now. I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to say this, but I think I know what is best for my children more than they do. To leave it all up to them, to me, would be the same as neglecting their education all together. "
I am a new unschooler so of course this feeds on all of my 'fears' way deep down inside..Someone remind me that I *AM* doing the right thing!!!!
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Send 'em to unschooling.com, home of the unschooling pros. of the world.
The person who claimed to be an unschooler definitely was not. And all that stuff she wrote about "I want this and that for my child" just shows that she is lacking one basic important thing. Trust. Sounds to me like she is homeschooling her kids and that's a whole different thing.
Unschooling is a whole different philosophy about learning and life than she was talking about.
You *are* doing the right thing.
Karin
Nichoel wrote:
After having a group of eclectic homeschoolers that call themselves unschoolers attack, belittle, and berate me for simply asking what their 'definition' of unschooling was, and then saying that the definitions they hold true were not the ones I have for myself.
Someone please remind me that I am not intolerant, disruptive, rude, or a trouble maker simply by asking questions and making people look at themselves?
I am especially licking my wounds over, after posting 'my' definition of unschooling at the list's request, getting this in response:
"You know, I guess by your definition I am not an unschooler. Because I don't think it's wise to leave the education of my children up to my children. I think that is irresponsible and setting my children up for difficulty in the future. I can't just assume my children will meet all of their educational needs on ONLY the things they want to do. Can you major in Barbie?
I want my children to explore their interests, yes. I want my children to find out what excites them, what interests them, what they feel passion for. But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once they are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future without my guidance now. I know it may be very "unschool-like" for me to say this, but I think I know what is best for my children more than they do. To leave it all up to them, to me, would be the same as neglecting their education all together. "
I am a new unschooler so of course this feeds on all of my 'fears' way deep down inside..Someone remind me that I *AM* doing the right thing!!!!
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
, you're home free;
Tee Shirt motto
Sharon of the Swamp
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> > darThat's it!!....Home Free.........our bumper sticker!!
Tee Shirt motto
Sharon of the Swamp
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Fetteroll
on 2/1/02 3:42 PM, Nichoel at stormyrain73@... wrote:
adults in society are artificial, boring and difficult to learn so kids must
be led through them.
They are certain the opportunities to learn what they'll need are so
divorced from what children will choose to do that they won't have the
opportunities or desire to learn.
They're wrong :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once theyPeople are so certain that the skills and knowledge we need to function as
> are on their own.
adults in society are artificial, boring and difficult to learn so kids must
be led through them.
They are certain the opportunities to learn what they'll need are so
divorced from what children will choose to do that they won't have the
opportunities or desire to learn.
They're wrong :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nichoel
Hi Tracy!
Thank you, I'm still very taken back by the moderator's demeanor throughout the entire thread..Her attacks on me were uncalled for in my eyes, and I'm disappointed that more didnt say something about them..
Ahh well, we live and learn :grin:
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
Thank you, I'm still very taken back by the moderator's demeanor throughout the entire thread..Her attacks on me were uncalled for in my eyes, and I'm disappointed that more didnt say something about them..
Ahh well, we live and learn :grin:
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: Tracy
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] I need to be built back up..
Nichoel,
You were very civil about the whole thing. I know, I was there! I didn't want to send you a personal message because of the accusation that we 'troublemakers' knew each other. I think people who are so defensive must be very unsure of themselves. Just want you to know, I think you handled the whole thread very well.
Tracy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pat Cald...
<snip>I'm disappointed that more didnt say something about them..
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Ahh well, we live and learn :grin:I think this has been one of the hardest realities for me to deal with. I have found many people to be supportive of and agree with my ideas when discussing them one-on-one but when it comes to standing up and being counted they are no where to be seen. I have learned that if I speak up for something, I had better be willing to go it alone and take the back lash because that will be the reality. I'm not talking about on the internet, I'm talking about IRL.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
Ain't that tha truth!!
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>__________________________________________________
> I think this has been one of the hardest realities
> for me to deal with. I have found many people to be
> supportive of and agree with my ideas when
> discussing them one-on-one but when it comes to
> standing up and being counted they are no where to
> be seen. I have learned that if I speak up for
> something, I had better be willing to go it alone
> and take the back lash because that will be the
> reality. I'm not talking about on the internet, I'm
> talking about IRL.
>
> Pat
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In a message dated 2/1/02 1:47:10 PM, stormyrain73@... writes:
<< But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once
they are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without
appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently
and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future
without my guidance now. >>
As long as she doesn't think they can, they will prove to her that they were
unable to do so.
Rather, she will prevent them (and herself) from discovering what they could
have done.
<<I want them to speak intelligently and with confidence. >>
I feel a Donald Duck fit coming on...
HOW on earth does she think she can teach them to speak intelligently?? Does
she mean she needs to fill them with facts so they can converse at dinner
parties?
Marty was discussing the term "vice versa" today. I asked him to tone down,
because he was correcting his friend in a way that was likely to hurt his
friend's feelings. Yes, Marty knows all about the term. Not because I told
him, but because he's read it, heard it, used it and understands it. He
might be able to tell you what language it's from, and puzzle out it's
literal meaning. Maybe so, maybe not, but he'd know where to look.
My kids have NO trouble conversing intelligently.
Oh well...
My preaching is falling upon the ears of the choir.
Sandra
<< But I also want them to have the skills to function in our society once
they are on their own. I want them to be able to write a letter without
appearing to be a moron to someone else. I want them to speak intelligently
and with confidence. And I don't think they can do that in the future
without my guidance now. >>
As long as she doesn't think they can, they will prove to her that they were
unable to do so.
Rather, she will prevent them (and herself) from discovering what they could
have done.
<<I want them to speak intelligently and with confidence. >>
I feel a Donald Duck fit coming on...
HOW on earth does she think she can teach them to speak intelligently?? Does
she mean she needs to fill them with facts so they can converse at dinner
parties?
Marty was discussing the term "vice versa" today. I asked him to tone down,
because he was correcting his friend in a way that was likely to hurt his
friend's feelings. Yes, Marty knows all about the term. Not because I told
him, but because he's read it, heard it, used it and understands it. He
might be able to tell you what language it's from, and puzzle out it's
literal meaning. Maybe so, maybe not, but he'd know where to look.
My kids have NO trouble conversing intelligently.
Oh well...
My preaching is falling upon the ears of the choir.
Sandra
Sharon Rudd
> Oh well...aaaaaaaaaaa
> My preaching is falling upon the ears of the choir.
>
> Sandra
>
>
AAAAAaaa meeeeeeeen
__________________________________________________
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<<What we need to do, and all we need to do, is bring as much of the world as
we can into the school and classroom (in our case, into their lives); give
children as much help and guidance as they ask for; listen respectfully when
they feel like talking; and then get out of the way. >>
This was John Holt talking about the open classroom. They did fill those
places up with science centers, history interest tables, language arts kits,
math games, etc.
I'm guessing it was the "completely child led learning" phrase that tripped
their switches. You did go on to define it, but they seemed to take the most
extreme view.
This was in my mail today, another separate group/situation with no room for
comment (which is probably best!!). It's the description of the family and
then of the mom by the mom herself:
" We are not unschoolers....
She prefers "child directed" to "parent
directed" but cannot tolerate "no direction". "
So the indication is she considers unschooling to mean neither the child nor
the parent is manning the ship.
She would hate this list. <g> But they might welcome her to "that other"
list.
Just hang around with us, Nichoel! <g>
<< I dont behoove anyone their way of teaching their children >>
Very minor: you meant "begrudge"
"It would behoove you to..." means it would benefit you. It would increase
your worth. You would be doing the right thing if you...
Sandra,
who reads medieval letters for fun and picks up these archaic nuances...
we can into the school and classroom (in our case, into their lives); give
children as much help and guidance as they ask for; listen respectfully when
they feel like talking; and then get out of the way. >>
This was John Holt talking about the open classroom. They did fill those
places up with science centers, history interest tables, language arts kits,
math games, etc.
I'm guessing it was the "completely child led learning" phrase that tripped
their switches. You did go on to define it, but they seemed to take the most
extreme view.
This was in my mail today, another separate group/situation with no room for
comment (which is probably best!!). It's the description of the family and
then of the mom by the mom herself:
" We are not unschoolers....
She prefers "child directed" to "parent
directed" but cannot tolerate "no direction". "
So the indication is she considers unschooling to mean neither the child nor
the parent is manning the ship.
She would hate this list. <g> But they might welcome her to "that other"
list.
Just hang around with us, Nichoel! <g>
<< I dont behoove anyone their way of teaching their children >>
Very minor: you meant "begrudge"
"It would behoove you to..." means it would benefit you. It would increase
your worth. You would be doing the right thing if you...
Sandra,
who reads medieval letters for fun and picks up these archaic nuances...
Nichoel
Sandra,
You're right! I meant begrudged and typed behooved; second time today (Earlier it was disconcert when I meant to type decode..) I think my brain is on hiatus today :grin:
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
You're right! I meant begrudged and typed behooved; second time today (Earlier it was disconcert when I meant to type decode..) I think my brain is on hiatus today :grin:
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] I need to be built back up..
<<What we need to do, and all we need to do, is bring as much of the world as
we can into the school and classroom (in our case, into their lives); give
children as much help and guidance as they ask for; listen respectfully when
they feel like talking; and then get out of the way. >>
This was John Holt talking about the open classroom. They did fill those
places up with science centers, history interest tables, language arts kits,
math games, etc.
I'm guessing it was the "completely child led learning" phrase that tripped
their switches. You did go on to define it, but they seemed to take the most
extreme view.
This was in my mail today, another separate group/situation with no room for
comment (which is probably best!!). It's the description of the family and
then of the mom by the mom herself:
" We are not unschoolers....
She prefers "child directed" to "parent
directed" but cannot tolerate "no direction". "
So the indication is she considers unschooling to mean neither the child nor
the parent is manning the ship.
She would hate this list. <g> But they might welcome her to "that other"
list.
Just hang around with us, Nichoel! <g>
<< I dont behoove anyone their way of teaching their children >>
Very minor: you meant "begrudge"
"It would behoove you to..." means it would benefit you. It would increase
your worth. You would be doing the right thing if you...
Sandra,
who reads medieval letters for fun and picks up these archaic nuances...
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In a message dated 2/1/02 2:54:54 PM, freeform@... writes:
<< They need to be running the show, not you. >>
Dar, this would SO get you thrown out of Christian homeschooling conferences
in the Bible Belt!!
Pat Farenga of Growing Without Schooling said he was speaking to 2,000 people
in North Carolina (that was fewer than half the people who were at the state
conference) and when he said kids need to have the right to say no, HALF
(1000 people) stood up and walked out on him.
So I agree with you that kids should be living their lives in comfort in
their own homes and getting to flit from joy to joy, be careful where you say
that.
Sandra
<< They need to be running the show, not you. >>
Dar, this would SO get you thrown out of Christian homeschooling conferences
in the Bible Belt!!
Pat Farenga of Growing Without Schooling said he was speaking to 2,000 people
in North Carolina (that was fewer than half the people who were at the state
conference) and when he said kids need to have the right to say no, HALF
(1000 people) stood up and walked out on him.
So I agree with you that kids should be living their lives in comfort in
their own homes and getting to flit from joy to joy, be careful where you say
that.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/1/02 3:11:59 PM, stormyrain73@... writes:
<< Hah! not anymore, one member was so vindictive that I doubt anything she
could say would make me feel even remotely comfortable with her IRL.. >>
But she might not be homeschooling much longer anyway. People who try to
control too much seem to tend to give up sooner. Or maybe she'll yet become
an unschooler! She's already wearing the t-shirt. <LOL>
Sandra
<< Hah! not anymore, one member was so vindictive that I doubt anything she
could say would make me feel even remotely comfortable with her IRL.. >>
But she might not be homeschooling much longer anyway. People who try to
control too much seem to tend to give up sooner. Or maybe she'll yet become
an unschooler! She's already wearing the t-shirt. <LOL>
Sandra
[email protected]
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 20:53:11 EST SandraDodd@... writes:>
It's sorta like when I was in Catholic school and asked a question one
day, and the response was "If you had asked that during the Middle Aghes,
you would have been burned at the stake."
So, why exactly do people keep trying to convince me that North Carolina
is a great,. hip place to live?
Dar
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> Dar, this would SO get you thrown out of Christian homeschooling:::Sniff:: Aw, I'm so thrilled. Now I know I've really arrived...
> conferences in the Bible Belt!!
It's sorta like when I was in Catholic school and asked a question one
day, and the response was "If you had asked that during the Middle Aghes,
you would have been burned at the stake."
>people
> Pat Farenga of Growing Without Schooling said he was speaking to 2,000
> in North Carolina (that was fewer than half the people who were at thestate
> conference) and when he said kids need to have the right to say no,Wow. That would have been something to see... sort of an Exodus, eh? ;-)
> HALF (1000 people) stood up and walked out on him.
So, why exactly do people keep trying to convince me that North Carolina
is a great,. hip place to live?
>in
> So I agree with you that kids should be living their lives in comfort
> their own homes and getting to flit from joy to joy, be carefulI like that image, of kids flitting from joy to joy.
> where you say that.
>
Dar
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