organicsis

I feel like I'm mad with so many people right now so I'm wondering if maybe it's just me. But then again maybe it's just one of those weeks where when it rains it pours (buckets of stupidity). I don't know.

One of the biggies: My brother-in-law (BIL) recently made some comments about homeschooling that really pissed me off. He said homeschooling any child over the age of 7 is a detriment to society, he refered to kids being deliquents and said there is no hope for any homeschooled kids to get along in society or succeed in life. This wouldn't have offended me if it weren't coming from a family member and didn't feel as if it were directed toward my child.

So I'm not only ticked off at him but I'm really ticked off at my husband's apparent disregard toward it. He just kinda brushed it off like it meant nothing. He does this a lot with his family; endures verbal abuse or allows insults. I don't get it but I stay out of it for the most part. But now that it's in regards to my child, I'd really like him to stand up for us. I've been putting up with comments from my MIL and now my BIL and feel like I'm up against the world with no support.

I know my emotions are escalated right now because I've been fighting some local homeschooling battles and having to deal with really rude, judgemental people. But this issue with my BIL and husband started before all that started. It's just that now I can't see to get past my anger. Am I wrong to be mad?

Tara
Our Unschooling Blog:
http://heartschooling.blogspot.com
Worried about the environment?
http://SustainableSundays.blogspot.com
Worried about the economy?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0EZeNulOz9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnijgIbm1qc


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanna Murphy

Tara--

I would put out the idea that you aren't asking the right question. If you are mad, then
you are mad--right or wrong, good or bad. You have to start with where you are and
honor it for a moment. Then breathe, then breathe again.

This statement right here is the biggie:

"So I'm not only ticked off at him but I'm really ticked off at my husband's apparent
disregard toward it. He just kinda brushed it off like it meant nothing. He does this a lot
with his family; endures verbal abuse or allows insults."

It sounds as though your husband's family communicates with a pattern of verbal
rudeness. I grew up in a family where my mother had a head injury when I was about 3 or
4 (she can't even remember), and many things just came out of her mouth--much of it ill
considered, so I grew up in an environment of verbal abuse that the whole family
participated in. It took me until my late 20s to realize that I wasn't going to change them-
-and it took being a part of my husband's very polite family to realize that not all families
are like that.

The first step might be to realize (if appropriate) that some of the attacks may be family
communication patterns rather than personal. If they are used to speaking rudely to
eachvother there might be something else going on besides communication--
competition, trying to get attention, trying to get a reaction, etc. If you charge in and try
to answer him (even in your mind) without understanding the reason he's saying these
things, it might not be very effective. Ask yourself, "Do you even think he really believes
what he is saying?"

And your husband might be intentionally sloughing them off because he might be wiser to
their ways than you are.

Those are my first thoughts...

Joanna

Sandra Dodd

-=-The first step might be to realize (if appropriate) that some of
the attacks may be family
communication patterns rather than personal. If they are used to
speaking rudely to
eachvother there might be something else going on besides
communication--
competition, trying to get attention, trying to get a reaction, etc.
If you charge in and try
to answer him (even in your mind) without understanding the reason
he's saying these
things, it might not be very effective. Ask yourself, "Do you even
think he really believes
what he is saying?"-=-

These are excellent points.

-=-My brother-in-law (BIL) recently made some comments about
homeschooling that really pissed me off. He said homeschooling any
child over the age of 7 is a detriment to society, he refered to kids
being deliquents and said there is no hope for any homeschooled kids
to get along in society or succeed in life.-=-

If you want to slip him a webpage to look at...

But really, he was probably just making defensive conversation. He
didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe he's so used to
antagonistic communication that he was trying to start an argument
with you (in an odd way, to be friendly).

-=-I'm really ticked off at my husband's apparent disregard toward
it. He just kinda brushed it off like it meant nothing.-=-

Probably it meant nothing to him. He probably learned a long time
ago to shut off his active listening and just let the crap flow by.
I know people like that. They just don't listen to their parents at
all. They don't interrupt them or argue, and they take none of it to
heart. They hear it like "blah blah samedy-old-same blah."

-=-I've been putting up with comments from my MIL and now my BIL and
feel like I'm up against the world with no support. -=-

Ah. Turn your back on those two and you will see that they are NOT
"the world." They're not even your husband's world. <g>

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tara

> I would put out the idea that you aren't asking the right question.
If you are mad, then
> you are mad--right or wrong, good or bad. You have to start with
where you are and
> honor it for a moment. Then breathe, then breathe again.
>

Thank you. I think that's really what I was needing form my husband;
just an acknowledgement that I'm feeling ticked and a little backing
for my feelings on the subject.


Tara

jenstarc4

It's just that now I can't see to get past my anger. Am I wrong to be
mad?
>
> Tara

It's not necessarily wrong to be mad, just very unproductive. Your BIL
obviously doesn't know anything about homeschooling, he is parroting
ignorant beliefs. I've found that its a waste of energy to feel anger
towards ignorant people. Yes, they bother me, but I really can't make
someone be more informed that chooses ignorance and chooses to make
arguments based in ignorance.

If, as humans, we could insert knowledge into those without, schools
wouldn't need to exist, and teaching would be easy.

Next time the conversation comes up with your BIL, ask him for
empirical data proving his theory that homeschoolers won't "make it" in
society.

Tara

>
> If you want to slip him a webpage to look at...
>
> But really, he was probably just making defensive conversation.
He
> didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe he's so used to
> antagonistic communication that he was trying to start an argument
> with you (in an odd way, to be friendly).
>

Yeah he's definitely an antagonist. A loud obnoxious, can do no wrong
antagonist. He kinda boggled me but I think it was my hubby that
really turned it into anger. Maybe I felt like I had to be upset
enough for the both of us. lol



> Probably it meant nothing to him. He probably learned a long time
> ago to shut off his active listening and just let the crap flow by.
I know people like that. They just don't listen to their parents at
all. They don't interrupt them or argue, and they take none of it to
heart. They hear it like "blah blah samedy-old-same blah."
>

Hahaha, yeah you are probably right. He was definitely raised in a
house where kids were to be seen and not heard; my MIL talks all the
time about how proud she was that her boys were quiet and docile when
she told them to be. They were always criticizing his choices, making
him eat on the kitchen floor if he cut his hair a way his dad didn't
like or shaming him if he made a bad choice. He learned early on you
don't stand up to people, and you don't speak your mind. It's just so
crazy. I was shown you can respect another person while still
speaking your mind and having self-respect. I was shown adults don't
have the right to be rude just cuz they are adults. But he endured a
lot of emotional neglect and verbal abuse. So yeah I guess maybe he;s
just used to it.


> Ah. Turn your back on those two and you will see that they are
NOT "the world." They're not even your husband's world. <g>
>
> Sandra

I know they aren't the world. Unfortunetly they aren't the only
people I've been dealing with. It's just the fact they are family and
I'm up against them on my own that is getting to me. But I do think
you're right. I need to just start ignoring them like he does.

I think I just realized a ugly fact: that my husband has been taking
crap from them for so long and my feeling mad at him or trying to get
him involved or get him to handle it is the equivalent to the
criticism he grew up with. Ewww, I'm acting like my mother-in-law! I
think I'm going to go cry!

I so don't want to treat him like they do, pressuring him to get what
I need. But I don't want to feel like I'm the only one to handle this
stuff either. How do I support him but get the support I need from
him?

~ Tara
Sorry to turn this into a marriage support group :[

graberamy

I so don't want to treat him like they do, pressuring him to get what
> I need. But I don't want to feel like I'm the only one to handle this
> stuff either. How do I support him but get the support I need from
> him?


I have a hubby whose family sounds very similar.


In our case I had to realize my husbands support was/IS there it just
may not have been how I initially envisioned it. Most of our issues
are w/ my MIL, I wanted him to stand up to her, to say something, to
let her know that WE didn't agree with her! Those were unrealistic
expectations I had placed on him. It wasn't going to happen.

He's given up on changing his mother a long time a go. He wasn't
listening to her or letting her bother him. I was listening to her
and letting her bother ME! It was for ME to let go and stop listening
to her. Realizing that I wasn't going to change them. So, now we
often go home and joke and laugh about things that were said. " Can
you believe so and so said this??" type stuff!! Sure she still
bothers me (I've asked for help here before) but I don't let it become
a problem for dh and I. He deals with her the way he is comfortable
and I deal with her the way I am. I have written her letters and set
boundaries twice. Usaully I take his road...ignore it!:)

Imagine going home, your BIL didn't bug you because you don't care
what he thinks. And you and dh having a little laugh over his ignorance.

So, perhaps, if your perspective changed you might find that the
support is already there????????

amy g
iowa

Robyn L. Coburn

I have a couple of photos of my husband when he was little, like 3 at the
most. In particular there is one where he has big eyes full of tears and
looks so sad. He describes that as "his life". It is made more poignant when
you know that these aren't family snapshots - they didn't take snapshots;
they had professional photographers come to family events, like a day at the
beach, and take photos the best of which they they blew up to 14x17 (as this
photo is) or sent to the press.

This photo of their little son weeping is one they thought "cute" enough to
enlarge.

Whenever I look at that sad little boy I just want to run and put my arms
around my dh and cuddle him and make it up to him. (And run and cuddle my
little girl too.)

His parents didn't even know what a cool, creative, vibrant, wonderful kid
they had living in the same house with them.

Evidently nor did Tara's husband's folks.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com

Sandra Dodd

-=-I think that's really what I was needing form my husband;
just an acknowledgement that I'm feeling ticked and a little backing
for my feelings on the subject.-=-

Maybe instead of thinking you know what you need from him, though,
you should ask him why it doesn't upset him. He might be able to
help you find clarity and serenity instead of the "YES, you should
feel ticked" you think you want.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I've found that its a waste of energy to feel anger
towards ignorant people. Yes, they bother me, but I really can't make
someone be more informed that chooses ignorance and chooses to make
arguments based in ignorance.-=-

I have a student in the SCA (not a sit-and-do-lessons student, but a
master/apprentice kind of thing). He has a friend who has the
annoying combination of lack of analytical thinking and the idea that
he knows more than everyone around him.

My advice has been, when my guy has the urge to explain something to
him, this: "Would you tell your dog that you think you need to get
your transmission checked?"



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I know they aren't the world. Unfortunetly they aren't the only
people I've been dealing with.-=-



But for some reason you are dealing with people who made their own
child eat on the floor?

You might want to rethink that.



-=-I so don't want to treat him like they do, pressuring him to get what

I need. But I don't want to feel like I'm the only one to handle this
stuff either. How do I support him but get the support I need from
him? -=-



By being more like he is instead of wanting him to be more like you
are, I think.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-t I don't let it become
a problem for dh and I. He deals with her the way he is comfortable
and I deal with her the way I am. I have written her letters and set
boundaries twice. -=-

How did that go? I haven't ever done it with my own mother in law,
but I was willing and able if things had gotten worse. I just
usually responded with a solid one-liner, and she would let it drop.



I still remember where we were standing when she said "You need to
frustrate them more." (Kirby and Marty.)

I didn't say "Well, we brought them to see you!" I said something
like life has enough natural frustrations without us making any up,
or like that.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-This photo of their little son weeping is one they thought "cute"
enough to
enlarge.-=-

eeep.

My husband wanted to go to medical school when he was 29 or 30 and
he told his mom and she laughed.

Some of these poor guys are enduring the cold into adulthood.

They need soft, warm wives and friends.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

graberamy

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-t I don't let it become
> a problem for dh and I. He deals with her the way he is comfortable
> and I deal with her the way I am. I have written her letters and set
> boundaries twice. -=-
>
> How did that go? I haven't ever done it with my own mother in law,
> but I was willing and able if things had gotten worse. I just
> usually responded with a solid one-liner, and she would let it drop.

The first letter I wrote to her was in response to one she sent me and
she replied "please forget the letter I sent you." I don't know what
that means but I didn't bring it up again, but I also didn't "forget"
it. So, basically nothing changed.

I should also say that your advice helped immensely a few weeks ago.
Grandma had made ds (graham) feel really bad about himself by quizzing
him and pointing out his reading pace being slower than school kids.
You told me to explain to Graham why Grandma did that (she doesn't
understand our learning philosophy, it's cause she cares and worries
about him). Wow, what a difference that made in Grahams feelings about
the situation. That advice really helped and he just said "tell her not
to do it again", which is why I sent the 2nd letter.

So, hence the 2nd letter, I took the time ONLY because my son asked me
to tell Grandma not to quiz him anymore. She replied very defensively
(she didn't want to" insult my teaching methods"...barf) but said she
would not do it again. We haven't seen her since so I'm not sure how
it really went. I'm not expecting it to change her manipulative
personality but I did draw a line in the sand where Graham was
concerned. Not that she'll have the pleasure to be alone with him again
for a long while.

That was one thing I had to learn. I wasn't changing her. If I was
sending my kids to their house, I should have known that Grandma is the
way she is and do things that I may not approve of (like cut my sons
hair, quiz him, tell my daughter she needs to go to church,school,
etc.). So, I look at it as my bad.


> I still remember where we were standing when she said "You need to
> frustrate them more." (Kirby and Marty.)
>
> I didn't say "Well, we brought them to see you!" I said something
> like life has enough natural frustrations without us making any up,
> or like that.

That's a riot...hysterical in fact! I just read it to hubby and he too
found it hysterical !! I'm usually pretty good w/ one liners (I
bartended for years [:-?] ) but I really just bite my tongue around
her. You once gave me the best advice for her, which I keep in my
artillery... just in case. You said something to the effect of, we're
hoping for a better relationship with our kids than you have with yours.

Usually I trust try to talk about superficial stuff, recipes, sports,
vacation ideas, etc. I was really hoping my kids would have one of
those storybook relationships with their grandparents. It was fairly
good when they were really little but as my kids have gotten older, not
so much!

Thanks for the advice and the laugh!
amy g
iowa





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I should have known that Grandma is the
way she is and do things that I may not approve of (like cut my sons
hair-=-

How old was he? (Was he at the age of consent for haircuts, I mean?
<g>)

-=-I should also say that your advice helped immensely a few weeks
ago. -=-

Good. Thanks for the feedback and update.

-=-I was really hoping my kids would have one of those storybook
relationships with their grandparents. It was fairly good when they
were really little but as my kids have gotten older, not so much!-=-

With mine it was that way, only even when they were babies there were
some problems (not that the kids knew about). Keith's mom didn't
know why we wanted the kids to sleep with us. Even when the kids
were bigger, sometimes I'd take the bedroom with Holly and Keith
would be in the den with the boys. Last time we went, Holly and I
slept on the queen bed in our van. It's not that I don't like to be
with Keith, but we were not ABOUT to have sex on a fold-out couch in
the room next to his parents, and our kids were VERY likely to be
more comfortable if they could hear, smell and touch someone familiar
in an unfamiliar house.

But when the kids got older, teens, things got really good with the
grandparents. The kids had real stories to tell, and were interested
in stories of the grandparents' lives, and so the fact that our kids
will talk to adults was impressive to them. They had other
grandkids, surly schoolkids who had to be dragged to visit, and then
would look away, pouty and hateful the whole time.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope your kids have cousins who are
worse.

No, that's not it. <g>

I think teen unschoolers aren't as disturbing as eight and ten year
old unschoolers are.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

graberamy

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-I should have known that Grandma is the
> way she is and do things that I may not approve of (like cut my sons
> hair-=-
>
> How old was he? (Was he at the age of consent for haircuts, I mean?
> <g>)

5 or 6 when it happened. At the time I asked him if he wanted Grandma
to cut his hair and he said "it's ok mom, grandma thought I would look
better." It just really irked me cause he loved his long "jedi" hair!!
But, it grew.



> -=-I was really hoping my kids would have one of those storybook
> relationships with their grandparents. It was fairly good when they
> were really little but as my kids have gotten older, not so much!-=-
>
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that I hope your kids have cousins who are
> worse.
>
> No, that's not it. <g>
>
> I think teen unschoolers aren't as disturbing as eight and ten year
> old unschoolers are.

So, there is still hope. Hubby (Mark) and I have had discussions about
leaving them there for visits and overnights. He thinks as they get
older they will be more comfortable standing up for themselves and
realizing they don't have to do things just cause grandma wants them to.
Mark pictures our kids as these strong independent people (which I know
they are growing into) who can handle grandma. I just don't know if
they're ready for that or if they're comfortable setting boundaries
with her. They like to make grandma and grandpa happy...

I've tried to "prep" the kids before we've dropped them off ( you can
call me whenever you want, use your restaurant manners, don't use any
swear words, don't watch family guy, remember to help pick up, etc.)
but grandma tends to blind side me! I didn't preface to the kids, "you
don't have to let grandma cut your hair cause grandma thinks it'll look
better or you don't have to write your abc's cause grandma says"
because I never even thought of her doing these things. [:-/]

I see Mark and your point and do think that it could be a better time
for them as they get older. In all honesty, the kids don't see grandma
as the manipulator that I do and I really don't want them to see her
like that. They usually really enjoy their grandparents and I really
don't want their grandma to blow it with her maniputlation!!

And, yes we do have cousins (schooled kids) and I don't think they're
as genuinely sweet and kind as my sweeties (I may be biased [;)] ).
But those cousins do go to her church and they go to
school and have parents who have them babysit all the time so perhaps
they feel closer to them then they do to my kids.

I appreciate your advice, it's nice to hear how other people deal with
family who aren't on the same page.

Now send some of that New Mexico heat up north here!!

amy g
iowa




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-the kids don't see grandma
as the manipulator that I do and I really don't want them to see her
like that. They usually really enjoy their grandparents and I really
don't want their grandma to blow it with her maniputlation!!-=-

Think again about what "blow it" would mean in this context.

What you hope (I think) is that your kids will see the nicest
possible aspects of their grandmother and have good memories. But as
with any dynamic interaction, now it's her move. Her thoughts and
actions and words are her "moves" in this game. *IF* she plays out
her side in such a way that the kids see her as manipulative, that's
her choice.



Meanwhile, back at *your* house: If each time they're with grandma
they only appreciate you more, that's a bonus!

Your stock can go up when others behave badly.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]