unschooling
Kathryn Orlinsky
> I do think it's important that people trying to "get" unschoolingI agree. And I think that most informed people agree more or less on
> understand that it has to do with who is making the choices, kids or
> parents, and that it has to do with trusting kids to make good choices. If
> it isn't at least that, then why not just throw the word away
> completely? If a word means whatever the speaker (or writer) wants it to
> mean, then it doesn't mean anything at all.
the definition of unschooling. However, I also think that people differ
widely on the details of unschooling. For example, can you suggest
courses of study, books, or activities? Leave interesting material
lying around? Insist that children finish a project or class they've
chosen and already started? Allow children to take classes in the first
place? I'm not looking for a debate on any of these topics, but I'd bet
you'd get different answers from different people.
> There is no definitive inerpretation of unschooling but some of the thingsObviously, I was not privy to the discussions in question. I do think
> I have read on unschooling lists in the past may it clear to me that the
> person really hasn't grasped the concept of unschooling. A good analogy
> is if someone claimed to be a vegetarian but they ate meat on weekends or
> when they weren't home. The above person certainly has vegetarian tendencies
> but IMO they aren't a vegetarian. I have read/heard similar things from
> supposed unschooling parents in the past.
it's important to explain unschooling to people and help them see that
it is a viable option. I agree that it would have been a disservice to
simply say 'whatever works for you' in this context. I guess I only got
half the story.
--
Kathy Orlinsky
mailto:kathyorlinsky@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/3/2002 4:52:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
to support our kids' interests and DON'T they learn the basics through that?
But I know what you mean -- people find out their kids are interested in
dinosaurs and, before the poor kids know what hit them, they're doing
"dinosaur math" such as, "If you saw twelve dinosaurs and three ran away, how
many dinosaurs...." ICK!!!
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> << But, interest led can also imply; find out what the child isLOL -- even this sentence seems okay to me. Don't we come up with resources
> interested in it, and come up with all kinds of resources to help
> them learn "the basics" through that. >>
to support our kids' interests and DON'T they learn the basics through that?
But I know what you mean -- people find out their kids are interested in
dinosaurs and, before the poor kids know what hit them, they're doing
"dinosaur math" such as, "If you saw twelve dinosaurs and three ran away, how
many dinosaurs...." ICK!!!
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/20/2002 7:16:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
I was going to be a veterinarian from the time I was five years old. I took
all the higher math and science classes in high school: algebra I & II,
geometry, calculus, trig, biology, chemistry I & II, physics (what FUN! ---I
loved that!), and I SUFFERED through every one (except physics). I took 5
(COUNT THEM, FIVE) years of Latin (although I truly loved that) as well as 2
of Spanish (way too easy).
College was the same way---all those science courses. My whole life revolved
around
pre-vet. Now keep in mind that my LOVE was English and other languages, but I
wanted to be a vet. I was GOING to be a vet.
By my junior year, I realized that I really HATED all those science courses
and that I would be looking at ugly, sick dogs (owned by people who really
didn't want to pay) all day long. NOT a way to spend the rest of my life. At
the same time, I was gobbling up all those language courses and spent my
junior year in Germany and Austria soaking up another language and its
culture. HEAVEN!
So what have I done? (without that precious degree, BTW----I dropped out!)
Opened and managed a provencial French restaurant, ridden race horses, owned
a tack shop, owned four successful dog grooming shops, and now I'm a MEAN
gardener, a dog show judge, and a coordinator for an unschooling conference
in October!<g>. Not bragging, just saying that I did these things AS I got
interested in them. I would never have thought I'd ever garden (BORING!) or
host a conference as a teenager. I will NEVER have another retail business or
ride racehorses again! I'm moving on, changing.
I'm SOOO glad I'm not a vet. Two of my very good friends are. It's a rough
life. Not for me. I don't think I "failed" by not becoming a vet. I
"succeeded" in the things I was interested in AT THE TIME. I'll let you know
what I'm doing in 5 years---probably something completely different!
There's so much time to experiment, quit, and try something else. Don't gear
EVERYTHING towards being a vet (or anything else). Life's a journey. Live for
today: if you're constantly thinking about what your children will be when
they're GROWN, you'll MISS who they ARE, NOW.
kellyinsc
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> Do we have to know what single vocation we want to do by a particular age?So right!
>
> What about people that have several vocations in a lifetime.
> I've had jobs in several different fields and I plan to go to Massage
> Therapy
> school next year. Should I have figured this out a long time ago? At age
> 18
> when I was going to the Int'l. Air Academy?
> Why?
> All of the work experience I've had up till today has been valuable..just
> as
> the time I've spent not working, running my own business or taking classes.
> Why does life have to be looked at in such a small box?
I was going to be a veterinarian from the time I was five years old. I took
all the higher math and science classes in high school: algebra I & II,
geometry, calculus, trig, biology, chemistry I & II, physics (what FUN! ---I
loved that!), and I SUFFERED through every one (except physics). I took 5
(COUNT THEM, FIVE) years of Latin (although I truly loved that) as well as 2
of Spanish (way too easy).
College was the same way---all those science courses. My whole life revolved
around
pre-vet. Now keep in mind that my LOVE was English and other languages, but I
wanted to be a vet. I was GOING to be a vet.
By my junior year, I realized that I really HATED all those science courses
and that I would be looking at ugly, sick dogs (owned by people who really
didn't want to pay) all day long. NOT a way to spend the rest of my life. At
the same time, I was gobbling up all those language courses and spent my
junior year in Germany and Austria soaking up another language and its
culture. HEAVEN!
So what have I done? (without that precious degree, BTW----I dropped out!)
Opened and managed a provencial French restaurant, ridden race horses, owned
a tack shop, owned four successful dog grooming shops, and now I'm a MEAN
gardener, a dog show judge, and a coordinator for an unschooling conference
in October!<g>. Not bragging, just saying that I did these things AS I got
interested in them. I would never have thought I'd ever garden (BORING!) or
host a conference as a teenager. I will NEVER have another retail business or
ride racehorses again! I'm moving on, changing.
I'm SOOO glad I'm not a vet. Two of my very good friends are. It's a rough
life. Not for me. I don't think I "failed" by not becoming a vet. I
"succeeded" in the things I was interested in AT THE TIME. I'll let you know
what I'm doing in 5 years---probably something completely different!
There's so much time to experiment, quit, and try something else. Don't gear
EVERYTHING towards being a vet (or anything else). Life's a journey. Live for
today: if you're constantly thinking about what your children will be when
they're GROWN, you'll MISS who they ARE, NOW.
kellyinsc
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
>>By my junior year, I realized that I really HATED all those sciencecourses
and that I would be looking at ugly, sick dogs (owned by people who really
didn't want to pay) all day long. NOT a way to spend the rest of my life. <<
kelly
LOLOL! Why didn't someone tell *me* that before vet school? I've had people
say I'm "wasting" my education because I'm not practicing right now, and I
have to turn away before my eyes roll right out of my head. I feel like the
world's opened up; I could write, I could become a groomer, anything! Right
now, I'm unschooling, and that's busy enough, but it's so nice to break out
of the box.
Karen
[email protected]
OK, so now I have THREE friends who are vets!
I talk with teens (mostly girls) that want to veterinarians when they grow
up. I ask why they want to be vets. Inevitably they answer, "Because I just
LOOOOOVE animals!" It's hard to explain how the time you actually spend
PLAYING with the animals is very small---most of their time will be
inflicting pain on their patients. They hardly ever see healthy, happy
pooches that smother them with kisses. Of course there's all the paperwork
(unless you're interested in hiring an office manager to share in your
profits) and all the bitching from patients about how high your prices are.
There's the tremendous expense of starting a practice (before or after you
pay off those student loans?)---and then, after working all day on ugly, sick
animals, you get to come home to your own critters----which you're really
don't want to deal with because the LAST thing you want to see at the end of
the day is ANOTHER DOG!
I try to offer them other avenues for their love of dogs: dog show
photographer, judge, handler (another tough one if you ask me!), breeder
(reputable!!!), pet sitter, researcher, groomer, writer,---there are tons of
things!
I'm SOOO glad I made the detour. With dog shows and judging and (limited)
training and grooming, I have just what I want. I can't imagine having to get
up every morning to go into a vet practice!
Kelly Lovejoy, Coordinator
Schools Out Support
mailto:coordinator@...
803-776-4849
Fax: 803-776-7006
http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org
In a message dated 4/21/2002 3:14:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kbmatlock@... writes:
I talk with teens (mostly girls) that want to veterinarians when they grow
up. I ask why they want to be vets. Inevitably they answer, "Because I just
LOOOOOVE animals!" It's hard to explain how the time you actually spend
PLAYING with the animals is very small---most of their time will be
inflicting pain on their patients. They hardly ever see healthy, happy
pooches that smother them with kisses. Of course there's all the paperwork
(unless you're interested in hiring an office manager to share in your
profits) and all the bitching from patients about how high your prices are.
There's the tremendous expense of starting a practice (before or after you
pay off those student loans?)---and then, after working all day on ugly, sick
animals, you get to come home to your own critters----which you're really
don't want to deal with because the LAST thing you want to see at the end of
the day is ANOTHER DOG!
I try to offer them other avenues for their love of dogs: dog show
photographer, judge, handler (another tough one if you ask me!), breeder
(reputable!!!), pet sitter, researcher, groomer, writer,---there are tons of
things!
I'm SOOO glad I made the detour. With dog shows and judging and (limited)
training and grooming, I have just what I want. I can't imagine having to get
up every morning to go into a vet practice!
Kelly Lovejoy, Coordinator
Schools Out Support
mailto:coordinator@...
803-776-4849
Fax: 803-776-7006
http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org
In a message dated 4/21/2002 3:14:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kbmatlock@... writes:
> >>By my junior year, I realized that I really HATED all those science[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> courses
> and that I would be looking at ugly, sick dogs (owned by people who really
> didn't want to pay) all day long. NOT a way to spend the rest of my life. <<
>
> kelly
>
> LOLOL! Why didn't someone tell *me* that before vet school? I've had people
> say I'm "wasting" my education because I'm not practicing right now, and I
> have to turn away before my eyes roll right out of my head. I feel like the
> world's opened up; I could write, I could become a groomer, anything! Right
> now, I'm unschooling, and that's busy enough, but it's so nice to break out
> of the box.
>
> Karen
>
>
Nancy Wooton
on 4/21/02 4:06 PM, kbcdlovejo@... at kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
vet tech at our animals' doctor. "Why would you want to do that?" I think
were her exact words <g> Dd watches LOTS of Animal Planet shows, and was
tempted by Emergency Vets. I've suggested (joking at first, but who knows?)
she might look into police work, training and working K9 patrols, mounted
police, search and rescue, etc.
may be in her future. The fact that first years may not so much as SPEAK to
an animal puts her off a little; that privilege belongs to the second years,
who train the critters as part of the curriculum.
a Sheltie who, at 16 inches and 7 months of age, has already bombed out of
AKC breed rings, but we're planning on utility/agility work. My dog is a
UKC rare breed, an English Shepherd, who would be doing agility trials if
only mom would get off the computer and TRAIN once in awhile... <g>
Nancy, who will talk dogs and other critters all day long...
--
Abba Xanthias said: A dog is better than I am because it also has love, but
it does not pass judgment.
> OK, so now I have THREE friends who are vets!My dd used to say she wanted to be a vet, until she mentioned that to the
>
> I talk with teens (mostly girls) that want to veterinarians when they grow
> up. I ask why they want to be vets. Inevitably they answer, "Because I just
> LOOOOOVE animals!" It's hard to explain how the time you actually spend
> PLAYING with the animals is very small---most of their time will be
> inflicting pain on their patients. They hardly ever see healthy, happy
> pooches that smother them with kisses. Of course there's all the paperwork
> (unless you're interested in hiring an office manager to share in your
> profits) and all the bitching from patients about how high your prices are.
> There's the tremendous expense of starting a practice (before or after you
> pay off those student loans?)---and then, after working all day on ugly, sick
> animals, you get to come home to your own critters----which you're really
> don't want to deal with because the LAST thing you want to see at the end of
> the day is ANOTHER DOG!
vet tech at our animals' doctor. "Why would you want to do that?" I think
were her exact words <g> Dd watches LOTS of Animal Planet shows, and was
tempted by Emergency Vets. I've suggested (joking at first, but who knows?)
she might look into police work, training and working K9 patrols, mounted
police, search and rescue, etc.
>There's zoo work, too, another avenue dd has considered. Moorpark College
> I try to offer them other avenues for their love of dogs: dog show
> photographer, judge, handler (another tough one if you ask me!), breeder
> (reputable!!!), pet sitter, researcher, groomer, writer,---there are tons of
> things!
>
may be in her future. The fact that first years may not so much as SPEAK to
an animal puts her off a little; that privilege belongs to the second years,
who train the critters as part of the curriculum.
> I'm SOOO glad I made the detour. With dog shows and judging and (limited)Do you have a breed or group specialty, or do you judge all breeds? dd has
> training and grooming, I have just what I want. I can't imagine having to get
> up every morning to go into a vet practice!
a Sheltie who, at 16 inches and 7 months of age, has already bombed out of
AKC breed rings, but we're planning on utility/agility work. My dog is a
UKC rare breed, an English Shepherd, who would be doing agility trials if
only mom would get off the computer and TRAIN once in awhile... <g>
Nancy, who will talk dogs and other critters all day long...
--
Abba Xanthias said: A dog is better than I am because it also has love, but
it does not pass judgment.
Janet
>>LOLOL! Why didn't someone tell *me* that before vet school? I've hadpeople
say I'm "wasting" my education because I'm not practicing right now, and I
have to turn away before my eyes roll right out of my head. I feel like the
world's opened up; I could write, I could become a groomer, anything! Right
now, I'm unschooling, and that's busy enough, but it's so nice to break out
of the box.>>>
Hey, Karen, if you ever want to relocate, we have a new, pretty cool
unschooling veterinary hospital here in New England..........great place to
work, lots of space for kid stuff (computer, TV/VCR, books, easy walk to
library, etc). We dissected an eyeball last week :)
Janet, mom to Caroline, 7, and Thomas, 3
Karen
Don't tempt me! I still play with the idea of a mobile or housecall
practice... How about Dr. M's Grooming and Rabies Shots?
Really, your setup sounds ideal, and now that dh is financially solvent and
we have the income to lose in a practice, maybe someday....
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Janet [mailto:jefhdvm@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: unschooling
say I'm "wasting" my education because I'm not practicing right now, and I
have to turn away before my eyes roll right out of my head. I feel like
the
world's opened up; I could write, I could become a groomer, anything!
Right
now, I'm unschooling, and that's busy enough, but it's so nice to break
out
of the box.>>>
Hey, Karen, if you ever want to relocate, we have a new, pretty cool
unschooling veterinary hospital here in New England..........great place
to
work, lots of space for kid stuff (computer, TV/VCR, books, easy walk to
library, etc). We dissected an eyeball last week :)
Janet, mom to Caroline, 7, and Thomas, 3
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
practice... How about Dr. M's Grooming and Rabies Shots?
Really, your setup sounds ideal, and now that dh is financially solvent and
we have the income to lose in a practice, maybe someday....
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Janet [mailto:jefhdvm@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: unschooling
>>LOLOL! Why didn't someone tell *me* that before vet school? I've hadpeople
say I'm "wasting" my education because I'm not practicing right now, and I
have to turn away before my eyes roll right out of my head. I feel like
the
world's opened up; I could write, I could become a groomer, anything!
Right
now, I'm unschooling, and that's busy enough, but it's so nice to break
out
of the box.>>>
Hey, Karen, if you ever want to relocate, we have a new, pretty cool
unschooling veterinary hospital here in New England..........great place
to
work, lots of space for kid stuff (computer, TV/VCR, books, easy walk to
library, etc). We dissected an eyeball last week :)
Janet, mom to Caroline, 7, and Thomas, 3
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/7/2003 9:07:06 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
aren't.
Some parents don't want to BE with their kids, and they're using the
unschooling term when what is actually happening is neglect in education.
I have met only one family like this, and I still think that the kids were
possibly better off than in school. They were nice and able to pursue their
interests later, even though the Mom was a total blob that did NOTHING and never
helped them see the possibilities in the world. At least they didn't face
bullying every day! And the Mom, although passionless and truly lazy, wasn't mean
to them.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> Thanks for all the answers to my questions. I guess II think you've possibly met people that say they're unschoolers but really
> wasn't really understanding the essence of
> unschooling.
aren't.
Some parents don't want to BE with their kids, and they're using the
unschooling term when what is actually happening is neglect in education.
I have met only one family like this, and I still think that the kids were
possibly better off than in school. They were nice and able to pursue their
interests later, even though the Mom was a total blob that did NOTHING and never
helped them see the possibilities in the world. At least they didn't face
bullying every day! And the Mom, although passionless and truly lazy, wasn't mean
to them.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/7/03 9:21:58 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< They were nice and able to pursue their
interests later, even though the Mom was a total blob that did NOTHING and
never
helped them see the possibilities in the world. >>
Well if she didn't come oozing out of the bowling alley eating everyone in
the neighborhood, then it's not all bad.
I've never yet met a really slothful unschooling family. We're the worst I
know. Honestly, there are other unschoolers I know who do much more running,
doing and being sparkly than we do. We tend to burn hot and fast a while and
then rest and veg a longer while.
I have a big story I didn't have time to tell her, mid-May and I don't have
the energy or sparkle to tell it now, but remind me, please. About a newspaper
interview and a photographer. The story comes out the first Sunday in July.
It's about alternative education/homeschooling.
Sandra
Sandra
<< They were nice and able to pursue their
interests later, even though the Mom was a total blob that did NOTHING and
never
helped them see the possibilities in the world. >>
Well if she didn't come oozing out of the bowling alley eating everyone in
the neighborhood, then it's not all bad.
I've never yet met a really slothful unschooling family. We're the worst I
know. Honestly, there are other unschoolers I know who do much more running,
doing and being sparkly than we do. We tend to burn hot and fast a while and
then rest and veg a longer while.
I have a big story I didn't have time to tell her, mid-May and I don't have
the energy or sparkle to tell it now, but remind me, please. About a newspaper
interview and a photographer. The story comes out the first Sunday in July.
It's about alternative education/homeschooling.
Sandra
Sandra
heather mclean
> I think you've possibly met people that say they'reOr maybe read a book describing unschooling, but
> unschoolers but really aren't.
really doesn't.
I recently picked up a book at the library that looked
interesting. I don't get to browse much at the
library (I'm busy reading to the kids) so I checked it
out to look through it at home. It is called
"Creative Home Schooling for Gifted Children: A
resource guide" by Lisa Rivero. {I have a problem
with the title, but she does explain her reasoning in
the intro.)
So at home, I flipped through it and was pleasantly
surprised that she had included unschooling in her
book. So of course, I started there <bg>.
Unfortunately, she adds to the confusion about what
unschooling is. She has some statements that I like
and agree with, but then she mixes it up with
school-at-home statements which negate the whole
point. I feel like using my black marker and red pen
to make corrections LOL. Here are a few quotes (good
& bad):
"There are nearly as many definitions of unschooling
as there are people who consider themselves
unschoolers."
"Perhaps most importantly, unschoolers believe that
children will learn what they need to learn if allowed
to seek answers to their own questions."
Yes! But then...
"Some families use unschooling for subjects in which
their children are strongly motivated and then use
more traditional approaches for other subjects. Some
families practice unschooling during the summer,
effectively making for a year-round education. Other
families find that unschooling is the perfect match
for young children, but that older children prefer
more formal educational approaches. Summer offers a
good time to experiment with self-directed
learning..."
She has 4 moms who describe in a paragraph or two how
unschooling works. Some of it is good, but then they
say things like "...many of us put a lot of effort
into making opportunities available for our children,
and even REQUIRE them to study something they wouldn't
choose for themselves, from time to time." (I added
the capitalization)
or this "The girls ran out of ideas of things to learn
about, so it seemed best to implement some REQUIRED
reading."
(I added the capitalization)
anyway, after hanging around this list, I feel as if I
KNOW what unschooling is and is not, and this book IS
NOT.
heather m
...tucson
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Kate Green
At 02:17 PM 6/7/03 -0700, you wrote:
good resources listed and websites etc., I was very surprised to read that
unschoolers don't believe in television or video games. Apparantly we limit
all these activities and let the children learn from constructing their own
airfields and farming (well you know what I mean). I think people read one
story about a a family that lives on a hill in California and they presume
that the rest of us unschool in exactly the same fashion.
One joy of unschoolers is the diversity!!
Kate
>I checked out The Homeschooling Almanac recently and, while it had some
>> I think you've possibly met people that say they're
>> unschoolers but really aren't.
>
>
> Or maybe read a book describing unschooling, but
> really doesn't.
>
good resources listed and websites etc., I was very surprised to read that
unschoolers don't believe in television or video games. Apparantly we limit
all these activities and let the children learn from constructing their own
airfields and farming (well you know what I mean). I think people read one
story about a a family that lives on a hill in California and they presume
that the rest of us unschool in exactly the same fashion.
One joy of unschoolers is the diversity!!
Kate
Betsy
**I've never yet met a really slothful unschooling family. We're the
worst I know. Honestly, there are other unschoolers I know who do much
more running, doing and being sparkly than we do. We tend to burn hot
and fast a while and then rest and veg a longer while.**
Is there a natural bias that people post more about peppy weeks rather
than lethargic weeks?
Can we have a lethargy contest? I'm thinking I can beat you with both
hands tied behind my back and operating my TV remote with my toes! <GGG>
Anyway, if people only post about what they've done during their more
manic time periods, the collective illusion is that *all* unschoolers
are peppy and active and zooming all over the place all the time without
respite. It's a flaw in how we read what is said, but making a
straight-line extrapolation from the available data is a natural error.
Betsy
PS Damn! This is a bad week for me to win the lethargy contest! Rats!
I've only taken 3 bike rides in the last 10 years, and all were this
week, including one this morning. If the flamey poster hadn't politely
left, I might have wasted the morning sitting in front of the computer,
fuming and trying to frame a coherent reply. I'm glad I didn't.
worst I know. Honestly, there are other unschoolers I know who do much
more running, doing and being sparkly than we do. We tend to burn hot
and fast a while and then rest and veg a longer while.**
Is there a natural bias that people post more about peppy weeks rather
than lethargic weeks?
Can we have a lethargy contest? I'm thinking I can beat you with both
hands tied behind my back and operating my TV remote with my toes! <GGG>
Anyway, if people only post about what they've done during their more
manic time periods, the collective illusion is that *all* unschoolers
are peppy and active and zooming all over the place all the time without
respite. It's a flaw in how we read what is said, but making a
straight-line extrapolation from the available data is a natural error.
Betsy
PS Damn! This is a bad week for me to win the lethargy contest! Rats!
I've only taken 3 bike rides in the last 10 years, and all were this
week, including one this morning. If the flamey poster hadn't politely
left, I might have wasted the morning sitting in front of the computer,
fuming and trying to frame a coherent reply. I'm glad I didn't.
Paula Sjogerman
on 6/8/03 9:26 AM, Betsy at ecsamhill@... wrote:
reading). We've weeks when someone watching us would see nothing but TV,
movies, hanging out and talking, and eating. (mmm, sounds good.......)
At one of my group's resource nights, I said my best resource of the year
was buying a super comfy couch <gg>.
Paula
> Can we have a lethargy contest? I'm thinking I can beat you with bothNo way - we're the winners for sure (if you don't count Zoe's endless
> hands tied behind my back and operating my TV remote with my toes! <GGG>
reading). We've weeks when someone watching us would see nothing but TV,
movies, hanging out and talking, and eating. (mmm, sounds good.......)
At one of my group's resource nights, I said my best resource of the year
was buying a super comfy couch <gg>.
Paula
Kris
This was my first impression about "unschoolers". I thought "they" did away
with all children's books and toys. I simply decided to embrace what I
liked and drop the rest. What I "embraced" turned out to be fairly
mainstream...if that word applies to unschooling. LOL
Kris
with all children's books and toys. I simply decided to embrace what I
liked and drop the rest. What I "embraced" turned out to be fairly
mainstream...if that word applies to unschooling. LOL
Kris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kate Green" <karegree@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 4:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] unschooling
I was very surprised to read that
> unschoolers don't believe in television or video games. Apparantly we
limit
> all these activities and let the children learn from constructing their
own
> airfields and farming (well you know what I mean).
Betsy
**At one of my group's resource nights, I said my best resource of the year
was buying a super comfy couch <gg>. **
We have a couch with built in recliners. Now... if only I could design
a convenient, reclining, computer chair! <g>
Our "curriculum" this year was a vegetable garden and a Netflix
subscription. Tossing in Foxtrot books and park days makes a complete
and balanced life, right?
Betsy
was buying a super comfy couch <gg>. **
We have a couch with built in recliners. Now... if only I could design
a convenient, reclining, computer chair! <g>
Our "curriculum" this year was a vegetable garden and a Netflix
subscription. Tossing in Foxtrot books and park days makes a complete
and balanced life, right?
Betsy
Paula Sjogerman
on 6/8/03 1:16 PM, Betsy at ecsamhill@... wrote:
Paula
> Our "curriculum" this year was a vegetable garden and a NetflixWell, if I'm feeling flippant, I say we had the Buffy curriculum.
> subscription. Tossing in Foxtrot books and park days makes a complete
> and balanced life, right?
Paula
Betsy
**Well, if I'm feeling flippant, I say we had the Buffy curriculum.**
Great! Our course in advanced logic is trying to figure out the details
of the rules to our Buffy board game. It's challenging our powers of deduction.
And I learned a lot about literary criticism reading lengthy discussions
of each Buffy episode on the Television Without Pity message board.
I've done as much reading about Buffy this year (including fic) as I've
done reading about unschooling. That's *a lot* of reading!
Betsy
Great! Our course in advanced logic is trying to figure out the details
of the rules to our Buffy board game. It's challenging our powers of deduction.
And I learned a lot about literary criticism reading lengthy discussions
of each Buffy episode on the Television Without Pity message board.
I've done as much reading about Buffy this year (including fic) as I've
done reading about unschooling. That's *a lot* of reading!
Betsy
Paula Sjogerman
on 6/8/03 4:21 PM, Betsy at ecsamhill@... wrote:
THIS close to buying it the other day - but balked at the price.
Paula, hoping that she and Betsy are converting someone to Buffyism and not
just boring everyone to death......
> I've done as much reading about Buffy this year (including fic) as I'veHave you seen that new book of philosophy essays about Buffy? Zoe and I were
> done reading about unschooling. That's *a lot* of reading!
THIS close to buying it the other day - but balked at the price.
Paula, hoping that she and Betsy are converting someone to Buffyism and not
just boring everyone to death......
Paula Sjogerman
on 6/8/03 7:29 PM, BADOLBILZ at ynxn96@... wrote:
only in that fact that they both have consistently excellent writing.
I would strongly suggest that any new Buffy watchers rent the seasons and
watch them in order. They build on each other to such an extent that I think
the last several seasons would be incomprehensible to anyone who just
started.
Paula
> What other tv showsNone. Maybe the best episodes of X-Files. I'd compare it to The Simpsons
> can you compare it to?
only in that fact that they both have consistently excellent writing.
I would strongly suggest that any new Buffy watchers rent the seasons and
watch them in order. They build on each other to such an extent that I think
the last several seasons would be incomprehensible to anyone who just
started.
Paula
BADOLBILZ
I've never watched Buffy. Is it really that good? What other tv shows
can you compare it to? HeidiC.
Paula Sjogerman wrote:
can you compare it to? HeidiC.
Paula Sjogerman wrote:
>on 6/8/03 4:21 PM, Betsy at ecsamhill@... wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>>I've done as much reading about Buffy this year (including fic) as I've
>>done reading about unschooling. That's *a lot* of reading!
>>
>>
>
>Have you seen that new book of philosophy essays about Buffy? Zoe and I were
>THIS close to buying it the other day - but balked at the price.
>
>Paula, hoping that she and Betsy are converting someone to Buffyism and not
>just boring everyone to death......
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
Betsy
**Have you seen that new book of philosophy essays about Buffy? Zoe and
I were
THIS close to buying it the other day - but balked at the price.**
I'm also a price balker. And I think I would be muttering under my
breath if people referenced the wrong episodes. I'm the nittiest of
nitpickers on this topic.
Similarly, it's hard to sell me any books on unschooling or
homeschooling when I can get so much great information on the internet
for free.
Along with the interesting discursive discussions. <g>
Betsy
PS We had the Buffy tapes out yesterday and today because my son wanted
to see "the funny episode where Harmony has minions" (5-2 The Real Me).
It was good fun and reminded me of what the show was like when Buffy
herself was still cheerful.
PPS I've been thinking about how to compare Buffy to other TV shows.
Short of cheating and saying that it's like Angel and Firefly, I would
say it's a little bit like a live-action Simpsons with the addition of
magic, martial arts and dark sexual undertones. (If you can imagine
that.) It's just as hard to define as unschooling! But you've got to
love a show where the high school principal gets eaten by a big giant
snake. <g>
I were
THIS close to buying it the other day - but balked at the price.**
I'm also a price balker. And I think I would be muttering under my
breath if people referenced the wrong episodes. I'm the nittiest of
nitpickers on this topic.
Similarly, it's hard to sell me any books on unschooling or
homeschooling when I can get so much great information on the internet
for free.
Along with the interesting discursive discussions. <g>
Betsy
PS We had the Buffy tapes out yesterday and today because my son wanted
to see "the funny episode where Harmony has minions" (5-2 The Real Me).
It was good fun and reminded me of what the show was like when Buffy
herself was still cheerful.
PPS I've been thinking about how to compare Buffy to other TV shows.
Short of cheating and saying that it's like Angel and Firefly, I would
say it's a little bit like a live-action Simpsons with the addition of
magic, martial arts and dark sexual undertones. (If you can imagine
that.) It's just as hard to define as unschooling! But you've got to
love a show where the high school principal gets eaten by a big giant
snake. <g>
Dominique Moseley
Hi,
After months of lurking I am finally writing my intro. Partially
because it's been so long, and also because I am in need of some
assistance. I have been lurking on this list and the unschooling list
for months. I am the mom of 3 wonderful kids: Stanzi, who is 5, Robby,
who is 3, and Gabbi who is 1. As a family we have often discovered that
there are names for the things that we do in learning and parenting,
even after we've been doing them for a while without knowing it. We
were doing attachment parenting before we realized it had a name. We
also realized very early on that our parenting style naturally
translated into a homeschooling environment. We knew right away that we
would never try to reproduce school at home, but had no idea of the
variety of approaches to homeschooling that exist. We discovered the
concept of unschooling a couple of years ago and I was able to attend
Sandra's workshop at the HSC conference in CA last year. I had one of
those moments where you know that something is a good fit, and since
then we have never doubted that unschooling was the direction we wanted
to take. These lists have been wonderful at helping me understand
unschooling as a lifestyle, rather than just a style of learning. I
have learned so much about things I had never even thought about before,
and I love how these discussions have challenged my parenting in so many
ways. My husband and I have grown so much in the past year as we have
started questioning so much of what we do, and why we do it.
So, that's the intro. My question is this: We have belonged to our
local homeschooling group since its inception a couple of years ago. It
is an inclusive group which was the first of its kind in our very
conservative community. Up until recently we were the only unschooling
family in our group. But, recently a few other moms have expressed
interest in unschooling. So, I thought it would be fun to have a get
together to discuss where we were at in each of our unschooling
journeys, and maybe read a book together. I posted the idea to our list
and I have had such a tremendous response I was a little surprised. So
my question is, what now? For the most part these are families that
know almost nothing about unschooling, or they think they do, but seem
to have a lot of misconceptions about it :-) Out of 10 families there
may be one or two that actually come close to really getting it. One
mom even posted that she wanted to bring her husband because she was
unschooling her kids, and her husband didn't understand it. So, she
thought bringing him would help so maybe we could explain it to him.
Many of the families seem to have the idea that whatever method one
uses, whether curriculum or anything else, is considered unschooling as
long as the kids are happy with it. I would sure appreciate your advice
on possible formats for a get together of this kind and maybe
suggestions on books we should start with. Initially, I thought a few
of us would read some of Holt's work together (mostly because I would
like to read some more of that). However, I am thinking that the
Unschooling Handbook might be more appropriate, given the diversity of
the group. Thanks in advance for the input!
Dominique
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
After months of lurking I am finally writing my intro. Partially
because it's been so long, and also because I am in need of some
assistance. I have been lurking on this list and the unschooling list
for months. I am the mom of 3 wonderful kids: Stanzi, who is 5, Robby,
who is 3, and Gabbi who is 1. As a family we have often discovered that
there are names for the things that we do in learning and parenting,
even after we've been doing them for a while without knowing it. We
were doing attachment parenting before we realized it had a name. We
also realized very early on that our parenting style naturally
translated into a homeschooling environment. We knew right away that we
would never try to reproduce school at home, but had no idea of the
variety of approaches to homeschooling that exist. We discovered the
concept of unschooling a couple of years ago and I was able to attend
Sandra's workshop at the HSC conference in CA last year. I had one of
those moments where you know that something is a good fit, and since
then we have never doubted that unschooling was the direction we wanted
to take. These lists have been wonderful at helping me understand
unschooling as a lifestyle, rather than just a style of learning. I
have learned so much about things I had never even thought about before,
and I love how these discussions have challenged my parenting in so many
ways. My husband and I have grown so much in the past year as we have
started questioning so much of what we do, and why we do it.
So, that's the intro. My question is this: We have belonged to our
local homeschooling group since its inception a couple of years ago. It
is an inclusive group which was the first of its kind in our very
conservative community. Up until recently we were the only unschooling
family in our group. But, recently a few other moms have expressed
interest in unschooling. So, I thought it would be fun to have a get
together to discuss where we were at in each of our unschooling
journeys, and maybe read a book together. I posted the idea to our list
and I have had such a tremendous response I was a little surprised. So
my question is, what now? For the most part these are families that
know almost nothing about unschooling, or they think they do, but seem
to have a lot of misconceptions about it :-) Out of 10 families there
may be one or two that actually come close to really getting it. One
mom even posted that she wanted to bring her husband because she was
unschooling her kids, and her husband didn't understand it. So, she
thought bringing him would help so maybe we could explain it to him.
Many of the families seem to have the idea that whatever method one
uses, whether curriculum or anything else, is considered unschooling as
long as the kids are happy with it. I would sure appreciate your advice
on possible formats for a get together of this kind and maybe
suggestions on books we should start with. Initially, I thought a few
of us would read some of Holt's work together (mostly because I would
like to read some more of that). However, I am thinking that the
Unschooling Handbook might be more appropriate, given the diversity of
the group. Thanks in advance for the input!
Dominique
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Too funny Betsy!!
***Is there a natural bias that people post more about peppy weeks rather
** Can we have a lethargy contest? I'm thinking I can beat you with both
hands tied behind my back and operating my TV remote with my toes! <GGG>**
LOL!
** Anyway, if people only post about what they've done during their more
section that Sandra has just been working on is so important, "typical
days", (not just because I'm in it <g>) you can then see that there is down
time and active time or what-ever. I think that might be why we all like
alot of Sandra's writings too, because she includes all sorts of stuff, it
isn't just when a child invents a rocket booster or something!
*** PS Damn! This is a bad week for me to win the lethargy contest! Rats!
frustration! I was going to do more but then I decided I was getting too
nauseated. My words, "OK, all done, somone elses turn now!" <g>
Kelli~
***Is there a natural bias that people post more about peppy weeks rather
> than lethargic weeks?***I think so.
** Can we have a lethargy contest? I'm thinking I can beat you with both
hands tied behind my back and operating my TV remote with my toes! <GGG>**
LOL!
** Anyway, if people only post about what they've done during their more
> manic time periods, the collective illusion is that *all* unschoolersI think this is such a good point! I also think that this is why the new
> are peppy and active and zooming all over the place all the time without
> respite. It's a flaw in how we read what is said, but making a
> straight-line extrapolation from the available data is a natural error.**
section that Sandra has just been working on is so important, "typical
days", (not just because I'm in it <g>) you can then see that there is down
time and active time or what-ever. I think that might be why we all like
alot of Sandra's writings too, because she includes all sorts of stuff, it
isn't just when a child invents a rocket booster or something!
*** PS Damn! This is a bad week for me to win the lethargy contest! Rats!
> I've only taken 3 bike rides in the last 10 years, and all were thisI posted to that thread and then went for a bike ride to burn off some
> week, including one this morning. If the flamey poster hadn't politely
> left, I might have wasted the morning sitting in front of the computer,
> fuming and trying to frame a coherent reply. I'm glad I didn't.***
frustration! I was going to do more but then I decided I was getting too
nauseated. My words, "OK, all done, somone elses turn now!" <g>
Kelli~
Paula Sjogerman
on 6/8/03 9:16 PM, Dominique Moseley at dominique@... wrote:
with only those who expressed interest. Then, I would bring not only The
Unschooling Handbook, but a bunch of handouts with quotes from Sandra,
Joyce, Pam and anyone else whose words really sum things up. A loose
discussion format would probably work.
BUT: when I have done these things, I do preface what I say with a sort of
disclaimer like: I don't really care what you all end up doing in your
homes, but I can only talk about unschooling as if I think it is the best
way to be. People are so prickly and defensive about what they do or don't
do.
Let us know how it goes!
Paula
> So, I thought it would be fun to have a getThis is close to the way my group is. First, I think it's important to meet
> together to discuss where we were at in each of our unschooling
> journeys, and maybe read a book together. I posted the idea to our list
> and I have had such a tremendous response I was a little surprised. So
> my question is, what now? For the most part these are families that
> know almost nothing about unschooling, or they think they do, but seem
> to have a lot of misconceptions about it :-)
with only those who expressed interest. Then, I would bring not only The
Unschooling Handbook, but a bunch of handouts with quotes from Sandra,
Joyce, Pam and anyone else whose words really sum things up. A loose
discussion format would probably work.
BUT: when I have done these things, I do preface what I say with a sort of
disclaimer like: I don't really care what you all end up doing in your
homes, but I can only talk about unschooling as if I think it is the best
way to be. People are so prickly and defensive about what they do or don't
do.
Let us know how it goes!
Paula
cris trainor
>people's eyes open wide when i say movie-schooling!
>on 6/8/03 1:16 PM, Betsy at ecsamhill@... wrote:
>
> > Our "curriculum" this year was a vegetable garden and a Netflix
> > subscription. Tossing in Foxtrot books and park days makes a complete
> > and balanced life, right?
>
>Well, if I'm feeling flippant, I say we had the Buffy curriculum.
>
>Paula
>
cris (who's typing with one hand cuz i'm hugging my sick quinn with the
other :(
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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Paula Sjogerman
on 6/9/03 9:37 AM, cris trainor at muddpies@... wrote:
p.
> hugging my sick quinnha! I have a Quinn too!
p.
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/9/03 7:03:37 AM, tktraas@... writes:
<< ***Is there a natural bias that people post more about peppy weeks rather
Kinda the opposite of songwriting, where songwriters tend to write songs
after they break up, not when the relationship is so happy that they're out and
about doing cool stuff. We don't get songs about "We went to the amusement park
and the sky was like magic and we had a great lunch!" We get "I loved her so
much and now I hurt deep down and I'll never love again."
I think it's good to appreciate a topic and medium which tend toward the good
days!!
I'll tell you a lethargic day, but it will be boring, and just make the list
long for no good purpose. It will let you know why cooks' lists don't go into
detail about why and how things burn, or how someone left the house and
forgot there was bread rising until she found it the next afternoon. Some things
aren't worth writing. And the bad thing about lists like this is you can't
stop me partway through with expressions of excrutiating boredom, or coughing,
shuffling and looking at watches. Here I go. If you don't read it you might
miss something good. Probably not, though.
Yesterday (Sunday) the plan had been that Keith and I would pick Holly up
from an overnight party far away (25 miles) at 10:00 a.m. We got a call that the
mom of the party girl (an idiot, well known to me for many years, a former
SCA student, one of the few I ever fired from apprenticeship) that she was
bringing them into town to be picked up. (Well, they're "in town" legally, but in
new houses way on the dusty mesa where roads aren't all finished.)
Keith said he would just go, and I could stay home. COOL!
The reason was this: She had taken them to her ex-boyfriend's house, only
about four miles from here. Only she didn't tell him she was going to do it.
She just called him a 10:15 (woke him up) to say she had told people to pick
their kids up (only three families, but that's three more than he had agreed to)
and she was going to be half an hour late.
So because it was SO supremely typically socially twisted and incompetent, I
didn't ask any more. He got up to greet people and say the kids would be
there in a while.
Keith had told Holly that she could go with him to fighter practice, and she
could take Kristy. On the way home he told her he really REALLY didn't want
to go, sorry. Holly probably said "that's okay," but she came and sat in my
lap like a tired, sad lump. I rocked her and kissed her head and stroked her
hair (what's left of it--she shaved off even more of the haircut you can see at
http://sandradodd.com/hollyhair
<A HREF="http://sandradodd.com/hollyhair">Holly's April 2003 Haircut</A>
and is doing it herself now, not directing me where to cut and what to shave).
I was asking her about the night before and she was giving single word
answers, and when I asked if she was going to the park soon, she started crying and
said "Dad isn't going and he won't take me."
Brett, another homeschooled teen who's also in the SCA of late, had just
arrived to take Kirby, who was still in bed at 11:15. I had gone to check to see
if he wanted to go with Brett but he said no, he really didn't feel like it.
I reminded him it was his last chance for two more weeks, because he works the
next two Sundays. He said that's okay.
So Brett had room in his truck. Kristy's his second cousin and lives where
he used to live, so it's not like he had to say "Holly and who?" He said okay,
he'd take them.
Holly wasn't having a slothful day, but the rest of us were.
Marty had a police academy week last week, and was really needing sloth, as
we both woke up promptly at 6:30ish (exactly, I know) and met, up and dressed,
in the den at 7:00, each of us having thought "Well at least [Mom/Mart] can
sleep late" and then been up fairly late Saturday anyway.
But Marty was up by 10:00 or so, playing with some new cards he got at
Walmart the day before for a game. (Darn it, this part gets interesting. But the
interesting part is stuff from Saturday, so nevermind for now.)
I made a scrambled egg sandwich for Marty and went to ask Keith if he wanted
one (not because I planned ahead, but because there were leftovers). He said
sure. I sat with them while they ate.
Keith was working on a wooden bench, kinda based on one I bought for $4 at a
St. Vincent de Paul store in 1976 or so. Wendy had made a copy of it when she
first started woodworking. Keith was making a wider put-together/take-apart
version with a cut-out crosspiece, some slide-in dove-tail, some notches here
and there. That's why he hadn't wanted to go to fighter practice.
Marty was restless and bored and I asked if he wanted to go to Hollywood
Video and rent something. But Sundays, the shelves are relativesly bare. He said
that's how he discovered the Wild Arms series, though, was "renting some
choad game" and liking it. So we walked over, out the back gate. My leg is well
enough to walk across the dirt now instead of the longer way down the alley
and on the pavement.
I looked at DVDs and nothing popped out at me (and later I remembered the
three I had told Kirby I would rent and watch with him, but this IS a tale of a
lame day). Marty got a game and Master of Disguise. Holly had seen it but
none of the rest of us had.
Got back. Kirby was awake, in a crummy t-shirt and white boxer shorts. He
never did get further dressed all day. Except for the walk to Hollywood Video,
which we can see fully from our back yard, Marty, Kirby and I stayed home all
day.
Marty and Kirby watched Master of Disguise. I was in the next room (here at
the computer) trying to play Neopets, but the site kept disappearing on me,
and so I just worked on adding a couple of things to my webpages. Put something
else on the main spanking page, and added some links at the bottom of
deschooling, because I wanted to find Pattie Donahue-Krueger's (having come across it
in a pile of old homeschooling publications I found Friday looking for a poem
about Keith that had been published in an SCA newsletter 20 years ago). Hers
isn't online and I couldn't find her e-mail address. (Lame time spent fairly
fruitlessly.)
Keith met us at the gate when we were on the way back from Hollywood Video.
I said "Marty, didn't you ask Keith if he had wanted to go with us?" "No, I
forgot."
He wanted me to show him the finished bench. I sat on it gingerly. It was
workable, and would have worked better in sand than on concrete, but in no case
was it going to work longer than a couple of hours. He sat on it with me. I
said if we rock back and forth at all, it's going to break. He said it might
not. I said I was afraid of falling, and maybe he could wedge the legs apart
where it was loose.
We put it upside down on the saw table. I showed him where I thought wedges
and pegs might make it strong enough to last a while (and I was thinking "a
day or two instead of an hour or two" but I didn't say it). He was still
hopeful. He put in a couple of really thin wedges and it did make it tighter, but
the design was still unstable. He hit a wedge in with his hand and broke off a
little piece of wood on the outside of a notch. At least it was safely on a
workbench when it broke.
I apologized for being the harbinger of technicalities. I said any two
teens in our camp would wiggle while they sat and there was just too much torque
and leverage involved for it NOT to break. But the cross piece was sure purty,
and maybe if he glued and pegged the whole thing together it would be a great
bench! "But then it won't break down to carry," he said. "Yeah, but then
people can use it. Sorry."
Keith went to the fighter practice park to check on Holly, to see if she
wanted to come back earlier than Brett. She didn't, so he came back. (That's
about five miles another direction than he'd gone that morning.)
I offered to go to the store to buy and make something for dinner. I asked
the boys if there was anything I could make in an hour or less that they had
not had for a while. Neither of them could thing of anything, and were happy to
just sit and watch that movie.
I personally was not feeling well, and spent much of the afternoon on
whichever toilet was nearest.
I went to tell Keith I had no dinner plan and didn't really want one. He
asked if we had macaroni or egg noodles. I said both. So he decided he would
make up a pot of beef, onion, noodles and sauce so he could take some for lunch
this week, and I offered to help but he was feeling energetic (and doesn't
like to share the kitchen) so that was fine.
Turned out we didn't have enough of either noodles or macaroni to satisfy his
plan, but he made do. He chopped up pre-made frozen meatballs for the meat
instead of messing with onions and raw beef.
Brett called to ask if Holly could go to Denny's with another mom and her two
kids. I don't trust that mom and I don't like her two kids, but I wasn't
going. "Is Govanen going?" I asked (the woman's boyfriend, who is trustworthy
and intelligent outside his inexplicable involvement with the girlfriend), and
assured Govanen would be there, I said yes. I've known him for ten years. His
parents were Santa Fe buddhist hippes. He lived in a TP in Guatemala or some
such part of the time he was little, and his dad ended up being prominent in
permanent-building Santa Fe Buddhism eventually.
So Holly and Kristy weren't home for another hour and a half. Holly had a
VERY busy day. The rest of us kinda grubbed around in what we slept in. When
the movie ended, Marty and Kirby went up to Kirby's room, where Marty played the
newly rented lame game (and liked it) while Kirby painted miniatures.
Later Marty got online on my computer while Kirby played the video game.
Nobody learned anything flashy and new, that I know of. While looking for
Pattie's address, I ran across something (old) from Monica Molinar in Alaska and
thought maybe I could find her online. She was on the old AOL boards and
used to send out "the unschooling barrage" because it was the days before easy
webpages, and when people wondered, we sent a batch of e-mails. She was easy to
find because she's a realtor in North Pole, and doing church music. Two
webpages. She responded within about five minutes of me e-mailing her. They're
still homeschooling.
Keith and Marty went to sleep fairly early. Holly asked me to make some food
for her while she was in the shower. On the way out to get something out of
the garage for Holly's dinner, I was thinking "How nice, it's just our
family, none missing and no extras." Then I saw Brett's truck out front.
Turns out Brett was asleep on Kirby's bed. He didn't really know he was.
I fed Holly a chicken/rice Lean Cuisine thing, and a bowl of macaroni
(Keith's extra, unspiced) with melted colby cheese on it, and sat with her while she
ate almost all of that.
I went to check on the plan about Brett getting to work at 8:00 a.m. in a
town 40 miles away, and ended up watching an episode of Third Rock from the Sun
in his room while he was running five different instant message conversations
on his computer. Then I helped Holly straighten up her room and tucked her
in, and I went to bed.
I don't want to write any more lame days. We have them. And honestly,
they're some of my favorite days. I've always had a pretty exciting life and those
days when the answer to "what'd you do today?" is "nothing" are some of the
BEST days.
Sandra
Sandra
<< ***Is there a natural bias that people post more about peppy weeks rather
> than lethargic weeks?***I think so. >>
Kinda the opposite of songwriting, where songwriters tend to write songs
after they break up, not when the relationship is so happy that they're out and
about doing cool stuff. We don't get songs about "We went to the amusement park
and the sky was like magic and we had a great lunch!" We get "I loved her so
much and now I hurt deep down and I'll never love again."
I think it's good to appreciate a topic and medium which tend toward the good
days!!
I'll tell you a lethargic day, but it will be boring, and just make the list
long for no good purpose. It will let you know why cooks' lists don't go into
detail about why and how things burn, or how someone left the house and
forgot there was bread rising until she found it the next afternoon. Some things
aren't worth writing. And the bad thing about lists like this is you can't
stop me partway through with expressions of excrutiating boredom, or coughing,
shuffling and looking at watches. Here I go. If you don't read it you might
miss something good. Probably not, though.
Yesterday (Sunday) the plan had been that Keith and I would pick Holly up
from an overnight party far away (25 miles) at 10:00 a.m. We got a call that the
mom of the party girl (an idiot, well known to me for many years, a former
SCA student, one of the few I ever fired from apprenticeship) that she was
bringing them into town to be picked up. (Well, they're "in town" legally, but in
new houses way on the dusty mesa where roads aren't all finished.)
Keith said he would just go, and I could stay home. COOL!
The reason was this: She had taken them to her ex-boyfriend's house, only
about four miles from here. Only she didn't tell him she was going to do it.
She just called him a 10:15 (woke him up) to say she had told people to pick
their kids up (only three families, but that's three more than he had agreed to)
and she was going to be half an hour late.
So because it was SO supremely typically socially twisted and incompetent, I
didn't ask any more. He got up to greet people and say the kids would be
there in a while.
Keith had told Holly that she could go with him to fighter practice, and she
could take Kristy. On the way home he told her he really REALLY didn't want
to go, sorry. Holly probably said "that's okay," but she came and sat in my
lap like a tired, sad lump. I rocked her and kissed her head and stroked her
hair (what's left of it--she shaved off even more of the haircut you can see at
http://sandradodd.com/hollyhair
<A HREF="http://sandradodd.com/hollyhair">Holly's April 2003 Haircut</A>
and is doing it herself now, not directing me where to cut and what to shave).
I was asking her about the night before and she was giving single word
answers, and when I asked if she was going to the park soon, she started crying and
said "Dad isn't going and he won't take me."
Brett, another homeschooled teen who's also in the SCA of late, had just
arrived to take Kirby, who was still in bed at 11:15. I had gone to check to see
if he wanted to go with Brett but he said no, he really didn't feel like it.
I reminded him it was his last chance for two more weeks, because he works the
next two Sundays. He said that's okay.
So Brett had room in his truck. Kristy's his second cousin and lives where
he used to live, so it's not like he had to say "Holly and who?" He said okay,
he'd take them.
Holly wasn't having a slothful day, but the rest of us were.
Marty had a police academy week last week, and was really needing sloth, as
we both woke up promptly at 6:30ish (exactly, I know) and met, up and dressed,
in the den at 7:00, each of us having thought "Well at least [Mom/Mart] can
sleep late" and then been up fairly late Saturday anyway.
But Marty was up by 10:00 or so, playing with some new cards he got at
Walmart the day before for a game. (Darn it, this part gets interesting. But the
interesting part is stuff from Saturday, so nevermind for now.)
I made a scrambled egg sandwich for Marty and went to ask Keith if he wanted
one (not because I planned ahead, but because there were leftovers). He said
sure. I sat with them while they ate.
Keith was working on a wooden bench, kinda based on one I bought for $4 at a
St. Vincent de Paul store in 1976 or so. Wendy had made a copy of it when she
first started woodworking. Keith was making a wider put-together/take-apart
version with a cut-out crosspiece, some slide-in dove-tail, some notches here
and there. That's why he hadn't wanted to go to fighter practice.
Marty was restless and bored and I asked if he wanted to go to Hollywood
Video and rent something. But Sundays, the shelves are relativesly bare. He said
that's how he discovered the Wild Arms series, though, was "renting some
choad game" and liking it. So we walked over, out the back gate. My leg is well
enough to walk across the dirt now instead of the longer way down the alley
and on the pavement.
I looked at DVDs and nothing popped out at me (and later I remembered the
three I had told Kirby I would rent and watch with him, but this IS a tale of a
lame day). Marty got a game and Master of Disguise. Holly had seen it but
none of the rest of us had.
Got back. Kirby was awake, in a crummy t-shirt and white boxer shorts. He
never did get further dressed all day. Except for the walk to Hollywood Video,
which we can see fully from our back yard, Marty, Kirby and I stayed home all
day.
Marty and Kirby watched Master of Disguise. I was in the next room (here at
the computer) trying to play Neopets, but the site kept disappearing on me,
and so I just worked on adding a couple of things to my webpages. Put something
else on the main spanking page, and added some links at the bottom of
deschooling, because I wanted to find Pattie Donahue-Krueger's (having come across it
in a pile of old homeschooling publications I found Friday looking for a poem
about Keith that had been published in an SCA newsletter 20 years ago). Hers
isn't online and I couldn't find her e-mail address. (Lame time spent fairly
fruitlessly.)
Keith met us at the gate when we were on the way back from Hollywood Video.
I said "Marty, didn't you ask Keith if he had wanted to go with us?" "No, I
forgot."
He wanted me to show him the finished bench. I sat on it gingerly. It was
workable, and would have worked better in sand than on concrete, but in no case
was it going to work longer than a couple of hours. He sat on it with me. I
said if we rock back and forth at all, it's going to break. He said it might
not. I said I was afraid of falling, and maybe he could wedge the legs apart
where it was loose.
We put it upside down on the saw table. I showed him where I thought wedges
and pegs might make it strong enough to last a while (and I was thinking "a
day or two instead of an hour or two" but I didn't say it). He was still
hopeful. He put in a couple of really thin wedges and it did make it tighter, but
the design was still unstable. He hit a wedge in with his hand and broke off a
little piece of wood on the outside of a notch. At least it was safely on a
workbench when it broke.
I apologized for being the harbinger of technicalities. I said any two
teens in our camp would wiggle while they sat and there was just too much torque
and leverage involved for it NOT to break. But the cross piece was sure purty,
and maybe if he glued and pegged the whole thing together it would be a great
bench! "But then it won't break down to carry," he said. "Yeah, but then
people can use it. Sorry."
Keith went to the fighter practice park to check on Holly, to see if she
wanted to come back earlier than Brett. She didn't, so he came back. (That's
about five miles another direction than he'd gone that morning.)
I offered to go to the store to buy and make something for dinner. I asked
the boys if there was anything I could make in an hour or less that they had
not had for a while. Neither of them could thing of anything, and were happy to
just sit and watch that movie.
I personally was not feeling well, and spent much of the afternoon on
whichever toilet was nearest.
I went to tell Keith I had no dinner plan and didn't really want one. He
asked if we had macaroni or egg noodles. I said both. So he decided he would
make up a pot of beef, onion, noodles and sauce so he could take some for lunch
this week, and I offered to help but he was feeling energetic (and doesn't
like to share the kitchen) so that was fine.
Turned out we didn't have enough of either noodles or macaroni to satisfy his
plan, but he made do. He chopped up pre-made frozen meatballs for the meat
instead of messing with onions and raw beef.
Brett called to ask if Holly could go to Denny's with another mom and her two
kids. I don't trust that mom and I don't like her two kids, but I wasn't
going. "Is Govanen going?" I asked (the woman's boyfriend, who is trustworthy
and intelligent outside his inexplicable involvement with the girlfriend), and
assured Govanen would be there, I said yes. I've known him for ten years. His
parents were Santa Fe buddhist hippes. He lived in a TP in Guatemala or some
such part of the time he was little, and his dad ended up being prominent in
permanent-building Santa Fe Buddhism eventually.
So Holly and Kristy weren't home for another hour and a half. Holly had a
VERY busy day. The rest of us kinda grubbed around in what we slept in. When
the movie ended, Marty and Kirby went up to Kirby's room, where Marty played the
newly rented lame game (and liked it) while Kirby painted miniatures.
Later Marty got online on my computer while Kirby played the video game.
Nobody learned anything flashy and new, that I know of. While looking for
Pattie's address, I ran across something (old) from Monica Molinar in Alaska and
thought maybe I could find her online. She was on the old AOL boards and
used to send out "the unschooling barrage" because it was the days before easy
webpages, and when people wondered, we sent a batch of e-mails. She was easy to
find because she's a realtor in North Pole, and doing church music. Two
webpages. She responded within about five minutes of me e-mailing her. They're
still homeschooling.
Keith and Marty went to sleep fairly early. Holly asked me to make some food
for her while she was in the shower. On the way out to get something out of
the garage for Holly's dinner, I was thinking "How nice, it's just our
family, none missing and no extras." Then I saw Brett's truck out front.
Turns out Brett was asleep on Kirby's bed. He didn't really know he was.
I fed Holly a chicken/rice Lean Cuisine thing, and a bowl of macaroni
(Keith's extra, unspiced) with melted colby cheese on it, and sat with her while she
ate almost all of that.
I went to check on the plan about Brett getting to work at 8:00 a.m. in a
town 40 miles away, and ended up watching an episode of Third Rock from the Sun
in his room while he was running five different instant message conversations
on his computer. Then I helped Holly straighten up her room and tucked her
in, and I went to bed.
I don't want to write any more lame days. We have them. And honestly,
they're some of my favorite days. I've always had a pretty exciting life and those
days when the answer to "what'd you do today?" is "nothing" are some of the
BEST days.
Sandra
Sandra
Betsy
**people's eyes open wide when i say movie-schooling!**
My unschooling faith has been wavering recently, but I had a reassuring
discussion with my dh who agreed with me that our son seems to learn
best from videos, games and taking walks.
So, I'm always looking for more movie recommendations. What have you
all enjoyed recently? Recently my son decided that he liked the Cadfael
episode that I was watching. (And the little voice says "Yay!
Historical! and Herbal, too!)
Betsy
My unschooling faith has been wavering recently, but I had a reassuring
discussion with my dh who agreed with me that our son seems to learn
best from videos, games and taking walks.
So, I'm always looking for more movie recommendations. What have you
all enjoyed recently? Recently my son decided that he liked the Cadfael
episode that I was watching. (And the little voice says "Yay!
Historical! and Herbal, too!)
Betsy
[email protected]
The game I mentioned in the lazy Sunday thing would have led back to this
story:
Saturday when Marty and I were up early we saw THREE FOX cartoons that were
particularly interesting to us. I sat and watched too. I had run up to
Kirby's room and stuck in a tape I knew we could tape over, because the first one
had 20 minutes left, and then didn't go turn it off, because it would have
woken him up again, but we were glad.
The first was the new Ninja Turtle series. It was a story that was only in
storybook, never animated, the first go-round. I recognized it because I read
that storybook to Kirby LOTS of times. It had a character named Kirby, who
had a magic crystal and if he tied it to his pencil, what he drew came alive.
He and Donatello end up in another dimension, and there's a battle which is won
by changing drawings of Donatello and of the badguys. The portal starts to
close and Donatello barely makes it back, but Kirby is trapped on the other
side, and all Donatello has of him is a drawing of himself.
The second I recognized it I went to tape it on Kirby's VCR which works
better than mine.
After that (maybe not RIGHT after) was a show Marty recognized from a card
game he has seen at Walmart next to Neopets stuff. It's some kind of
interstellar wrestling federation show. Silly, but tons of puns and food characters.
Lots of jokes Marty appeciated because he likes wrestling and Japanese
animation, and there were plays on particular other games/series.
Then even MORE interesting was another show with food characters. Friday,
Holly had been looking for Kirby's old sticker collection in his closet. She
went through every box looking and finally found them, but in the process she
came across a spiral notebook in which he had done food characters, drawn their
weapons and had me write down descriptions and stats and stuff for them. She
got it out and read through the whole thing, and said she wished she had
someone to do something like that with, because she remembered when Kirby and Marty
were making their food fighters. And she wondered if Marty still had his
notebook too. That was Friday.
Saturday MORNING Marty and I were the only two up, this food-fighter show
came on, and I asked him whether he still had his notebook. He said yes, walked
ten steps, picked it up, and handed it to me. WOW. I said "They stole ALL
your ideas!" It was really a great bit of synchronicity. AND best of all,
the tape was still running in Kirby's room. We thought.
No, he had gotten up and wound that tape back to see what had been so
important for me to record. <g> He was happily watching a Ninja Turtles story he
knew very well, but had never seen animated until then.
So Marty and Holly and I went to Walmart where he bought a couple of card
packs for that wrestling game. The kids are all asleep so I can't ask more.
Later that night, he and Brett went back to Walmart and bought more so they
could learn to play it.
Gamer-geek serendipity.
Sandra
story:
Saturday when Marty and I were up early we saw THREE FOX cartoons that were
particularly interesting to us. I sat and watched too. I had run up to
Kirby's room and stuck in a tape I knew we could tape over, because the first one
had 20 minutes left, and then didn't go turn it off, because it would have
woken him up again, but we were glad.
The first was the new Ninja Turtle series. It was a story that was only in
storybook, never animated, the first go-round. I recognized it because I read
that storybook to Kirby LOTS of times. It had a character named Kirby, who
had a magic crystal and if he tied it to his pencil, what he drew came alive.
He and Donatello end up in another dimension, and there's a battle which is won
by changing drawings of Donatello and of the badguys. The portal starts to
close and Donatello barely makes it back, but Kirby is trapped on the other
side, and all Donatello has of him is a drawing of himself.
The second I recognized it I went to tape it on Kirby's VCR which works
better than mine.
After that (maybe not RIGHT after) was a show Marty recognized from a card
game he has seen at Walmart next to Neopets stuff. It's some kind of
interstellar wrestling federation show. Silly, but tons of puns and food characters.
Lots of jokes Marty appeciated because he likes wrestling and Japanese
animation, and there were plays on particular other games/series.
Then even MORE interesting was another show with food characters. Friday,
Holly had been looking for Kirby's old sticker collection in his closet. She
went through every box looking and finally found them, but in the process she
came across a spiral notebook in which he had done food characters, drawn their
weapons and had me write down descriptions and stats and stuff for them. She
got it out and read through the whole thing, and said she wished she had
someone to do something like that with, because she remembered when Kirby and Marty
were making their food fighters. And she wondered if Marty still had his
notebook too. That was Friday.
Saturday MORNING Marty and I were the only two up, this food-fighter show
came on, and I asked him whether he still had his notebook. He said yes, walked
ten steps, picked it up, and handed it to me. WOW. I said "They stole ALL
your ideas!" It was really a great bit of synchronicity. AND best of all,
the tape was still running in Kirby's room. We thought.
No, he had gotten up and wound that tape back to see what had been so
important for me to record. <g> He was happily watching a Ninja Turtles story he
knew very well, but had never seen animated until then.
So Marty and Holly and I went to Walmart where he bought a couple of card
packs for that wrestling game. The kids are all asleep so I can't ask more.
Later that night, he and Brett went back to Walmart and bought more so they
could learn to play it.
Gamer-geek serendipity.
Sandra