summer camps & classes
Ed Wendell
Good day group I have a few questions about classes or camps.
I'm always seeing various "day camps" available during the summer and know of many homeschoolers/unschoolers that attend. My question is, how do you address the schoolishness ?
I do not want to set my son up for a situation where he is ridiculed by other children or adults about his level of writing - or even his own feelings of being inadequate - self comparison - been there done that with public school until mid 3rd grade.
Plus - Our son is very social and very, very talkative. He will monopolize a conversation if he can, especially with the adult (he really picks their brains) and he will talk to adults like an equal. There was an incident last winter where the group activity leader initiated all the other children in the group to take a vote: for Zac to have to be silent the rest of the group time. arrrrrrrrr - that was a homeschool group activity where hubby was present.
I would love to offer some of the camps that are available around here - we have camps available at science city, zoo, etc. that I think our son might be interested in except that he will not write & cannot spell. (he spelled sorry "sre" yesterday - if you say the letter sounds s-r-e it sounds like sorry; not all his spelling is this way but some of it is) In fact he is just beginning to write a bit this summer all spontaneously on his own and I'd hate to inadvertently crush that.
Do I offer these camps to our son and let him choose? Do I not offer in order to "protect" him - staying open to the possibility of these activities later on ?
We have been homeschooling / unschooling for 4.5 years - went straight from public school to unschooling. He just turned 13. - we don't want to have to begin deschooling all over ; ) But I don't want to over protect either. I don't tend to speak up for what our needs are (I dislike confrontations), I tend to withdraw to where we are happiest, path of least resistance.
We have attend many "classes" where one or both of us were available to go along and sit beside our son and write for him & work along side of him but those are usually classes designed for parents to be involved so there were always a few other parents in attendance also (it did not stick out that he was the only one with a parent beside him) We have also attended many activities where we sat in the back, available for assistance.
If he did chose to attend how could we help him and should we have a discussion with the people running the activity ?
Do those of you that have children that attend these types of classes and camps ask the leaders before hand about how much schoolishness there will be. (not in those words of course - but details about requirements for reading, writing, sitting still & mute, etc.) - then present all that information to your child - and then of course they choose what they want to do?
What would be essential to go over with the instructors and your child?
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm always seeing various "day camps" available during the summer and know of many homeschoolers/unschoolers that attend. My question is, how do you address the schoolishness ?
I do not want to set my son up for a situation where he is ridiculed by other children or adults about his level of writing - or even his own feelings of being inadequate - self comparison - been there done that with public school until mid 3rd grade.
Plus - Our son is very social and very, very talkative. He will monopolize a conversation if he can, especially with the adult (he really picks their brains) and he will talk to adults like an equal. There was an incident last winter where the group activity leader initiated all the other children in the group to take a vote: for Zac to have to be silent the rest of the group time. arrrrrrrrr - that was a homeschool group activity where hubby was present.
I would love to offer some of the camps that are available around here - we have camps available at science city, zoo, etc. that I think our son might be interested in except that he will not write & cannot spell. (he spelled sorry "sre" yesterday - if you say the letter sounds s-r-e it sounds like sorry; not all his spelling is this way but some of it is) In fact he is just beginning to write a bit this summer all spontaneously on his own and I'd hate to inadvertently crush that.
Do I offer these camps to our son and let him choose? Do I not offer in order to "protect" him - staying open to the possibility of these activities later on ?
We have been homeschooling / unschooling for 4.5 years - went straight from public school to unschooling. He just turned 13. - we don't want to have to begin deschooling all over ; ) But I don't want to over protect either. I don't tend to speak up for what our needs are (I dislike confrontations), I tend to withdraw to where we are happiest, path of least resistance.
We have attend many "classes" where one or both of us were available to go along and sit beside our son and write for him & work along side of him but those are usually classes designed for parents to be involved so there were always a few other parents in attendance also (it did not stick out that he was the only one with a parent beside him) We have also attended many activities where we sat in the back, available for assistance.
If he did chose to attend how could we help him and should we have a discussion with the people running the activity ?
Do those of you that have children that attend these types of classes and camps ask the leaders before hand about how much schoolishness there will be. (not in those words of course - but details about requirements for reading, writing, sitting still & mute, etc.) - then present all that information to your child - and then of course they choose what they want to do?
What would be essential to go over with the instructors and your child?
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Hi Lisa,
I am going through this right now. My son went to a developmental school up
through 3rd grade, I pulled him out last year (after the teacher yelled at
him one to many times). So we've spent the last year deschooling.
He asked me if he could take some classes this summer, and reluctantly, I
enrolled him (after talking to the person in charge who assured me that these
classes were just for fun...no pressure classes). So he was signed up to take
computers and arts and crafts. He came home after 2 days crying that the
computer class was going to fast for him and he felt that he couldn't keep up. I
spoke to the teacher and explained my son's situation and he basically said
that if my son would pay attention he'd be able to keep up! UGH! A simple
reminder to both of us why were aren't in school anymore!
So now he's taking a science class. I spoke to the teacher beforehand and
she assured me that there was no writing in class and that they were going to
spend mornings making paper airplanes and slime. So far so good. (Although the
arts and crafts teacher wasn't too happy when my son quoted Austin Powers
when they were discussing volcanoes...).
He also just spent a week away at camp in the mountains. I noticed in his
things there were some writing assignments...just simple fill in stuff and he
told me he had no problems with it, and his spelling and writing are still very
inventive. He was so happy to be at camp, that I'm sure he doesn't even
remember having to write at all. It was no big deal.
My son is also very social and he's very athletic too, so there are a lot of
situations where we're with schooled kids and it can be difficult. Usually
my husband or I are with him, so we can discuss things with him afterwards.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would talk to the person in
charge and ask about the "academic" part of the camp (if there is one). If
there's a lot of schoolish like stuff, I'd opt out (unless your son really wants
it). I'm always one for communicating with whomever is in charge of my child, in
front of my child, that way everyone is on the same page.
I don't know what others think about camp and summer classes...but this is
just our experience this year!
Linda
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am going through this right now. My son went to a developmental school up
through 3rd grade, I pulled him out last year (after the teacher yelled at
him one to many times). So we've spent the last year deschooling.
He asked me if he could take some classes this summer, and reluctantly, I
enrolled him (after talking to the person in charge who assured me that these
classes were just for fun...no pressure classes). So he was signed up to take
computers and arts and crafts. He came home after 2 days crying that the
computer class was going to fast for him and he felt that he couldn't keep up. I
spoke to the teacher and explained my son's situation and he basically said
that if my son would pay attention he'd be able to keep up! UGH! A simple
reminder to both of us why were aren't in school anymore!
So now he's taking a science class. I spoke to the teacher beforehand and
she assured me that there was no writing in class and that they were going to
spend mornings making paper airplanes and slime. So far so good. (Although the
arts and crafts teacher wasn't too happy when my son quoted Austin Powers
when they were discussing volcanoes...).
He also just spent a week away at camp in the mountains. I noticed in his
things there were some writing assignments...just simple fill in stuff and he
told me he had no problems with it, and his spelling and writing are still very
inventive. He was so happy to be at camp, that I'm sure he doesn't even
remember having to write at all. It was no big deal.
My son is also very social and he's very athletic too, so there are a lot of
situations where we're with schooled kids and it can be difficult. Usually
my husband or I are with him, so we can discuss things with him afterwards.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would talk to the person in
charge and ask about the "academic" part of the camp (if there is one). If
there's a lot of schoolish like stuff, I'd opt out (unless your son really wants
it). I'm always one for communicating with whomever is in charge of my child, in
front of my child, that way everyone is on the same page.
I don't know what others think about camp and summer classes...but this is
just our experience this year!
Linda
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote:
these activities later on ?
****************
I'd offer but talk seriously with him about the expectations and
options.
In terms of any "work", I think its important to remind him (and
yourself, too) that this is all totally voluntary on his part. He
doesn't *have* to do any given assignment. I'd want to know
beforehand if there are going to be long periods of time when kids
are expected to sit in a desk and read or write simply bc those are
times when your guy may be bored and restless - but that seems
unlikely for a summmer day-camp.
************
really picks their brains) and he will talk to adults like an
equal. There was an incident last winter where the group activity
leader initiated all the other children in the group to take a
vote: for Zac to have to be silent the rest of the group time.
***********
This seems like the bigger issue. You want to be able to put him in
situations where he can learn in his own best way - and for him that
involves a lot of talking, which doesn't lend itself well to groups
where several people are sharing one teacher or expert. I'd be on
the look out for other option than classes for this reason - maybe
talk to some of the people who are putting on the summer classes and
see if they are available at other times one-on-one.
Kind of depends on what your son's interests are, but just as an
example, a fellow I know teaches at a local science center that
offers a variety of classes year-round. Mo's not interested in
classes, but this guy also lives on a really sweet section of a
local creek that's Great for catching fish and crawdads and just
slithering with all kinds of snakes. So we go and swim at his place
and he comes out and identifies critters to Mo's heart's content. He
sometimes jokes about how much he would theoretically get paid to do
this, but really, he's passionate about creepy-crawlies and is
thrilled to have another person share that passion with him. That's
something he doesn't always get in a class - those moments
of "oooooohhhhhh look at this! isn't it coooool?"
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
wrote:
>> Do I offer these camps to our son and let him choose? Do I notoffer in order to "protect" him - staying open to the possibility of
these activities later on ?
****************
I'd offer but talk seriously with him about the expectations and
options.
In terms of any "work", I think its important to remind him (and
yourself, too) that this is all totally voluntary on his part. He
doesn't *have* to do any given assignment. I'd want to know
beforehand if there are going to be long periods of time when kids
are expected to sit in a desk and read or write simply bc those are
times when your guy may be bored and restless - but that seems
unlikely for a summmer day-camp.
************
> Plus - Our son is very social and very, very talkative. He willmonopolize a conversation if he can, especially with the adult (he
really picks their brains) and he will talk to adults like an
equal. There was an incident last winter where the group activity
leader initiated all the other children in the group to take a
vote: for Zac to have to be silent the rest of the group time.
***********
This seems like the bigger issue. You want to be able to put him in
situations where he can learn in his own best way - and for him that
involves a lot of talking, which doesn't lend itself well to groups
where several people are sharing one teacher or expert. I'd be on
the look out for other option than classes for this reason - maybe
talk to some of the people who are putting on the summer classes and
see if they are available at other times one-on-one.
Kind of depends on what your son's interests are, but just as an
example, a fellow I know teaches at a local science center that
offers a variety of classes year-round. Mo's not interested in
classes, but this guy also lives on a really sweet section of a
local creek that's Great for catching fish and crawdads and just
slithering with all kinds of snakes. So we go and swim at his place
and he comes out and identifies critters to Mo's heart's content. He
sometimes jokes about how much he would theoretically get paid to do
this, but really, he's passionate about creepy-crawlies and is
thrilled to have another person share that passion with him. That's
something he doesn't always get in a class - those moments
of "oooooohhhhhh look at this! isn't it coooool?"
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Sandra Dodd
-=-> Plus - Our son is very social and very, very talkative. He will
monopolize a conversation if he can, especially with the adult (he
really picks their brains) and he will talk to adults like an
equal. There was an incident last winter where the group activity
leader initiated all the other children in the group to take a
vote: for Zac to have to be silent the rest of the group time. -=-
That's not necessarily "very social."
I talk a lot. I process ideas by talking (or by writing, or having
long discussions with friends late at night or on car rides). My
kids are like that. The oldest one, especially, is that way.
I have told Kirby a few times, when he was younger and more hyper
especially, to be careful not to hog the air.
When he goes to a party it's easy for him to be "the life of the
party," and sometimes that's inappropriate. Birthdays (other than
his own). Funerals. So I've coached him about when it's good to cut
loose and talk, and when it's good to studiously wait his turn, or
let others have more attention.
Different situations have different expectations, and it's part of
parenting to help kids understand that, and to help them figure out
how to gauge it themselves, and how to practice fitting in when
that's called for.
When I run a workshop or give a talk, it wouldn't be okay for one of
the participants to monopolize, to "pick my brain," to talk to me
like an equal, to be social or very, very talkative. The others in
the group might vote for that person to have to be silent for the
rest of the workshop or the presentation.
When I go to a workshop or a talk or a camp or a presentation, I
don't talk to the presenter like an equal. I let him have the time
and space he's been alloted to make his presentation. I don't
monopolize his time, even if I'm the organizer. I've just finished
doing that 19 times. (I started to say 22, but I was the presenter
three of the times). http://sandradodd.com/thursday
I still haven't made the last three summary sites.
Instead of looking for a place where a child can be unreasonably
talkative, help him learn when and how to wait.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
monopolize a conversation if he can, especially with the adult (he
really picks their brains) and he will talk to adults like an
equal. There was an incident last winter where the group activity
leader initiated all the other children in the group to take a
vote: for Zac to have to be silent the rest of the group time. -=-
That's not necessarily "very social."
I talk a lot. I process ideas by talking (or by writing, or having
long discussions with friends late at night or on car rides). My
kids are like that. The oldest one, especially, is that way.
I have told Kirby a few times, when he was younger and more hyper
especially, to be careful not to hog the air.
When he goes to a party it's easy for him to be "the life of the
party," and sometimes that's inappropriate. Birthdays (other than
his own). Funerals. So I've coached him about when it's good to cut
loose and talk, and when it's good to studiously wait his turn, or
let others have more attention.
Different situations have different expectations, and it's part of
parenting to help kids understand that, and to help them figure out
how to gauge it themselves, and how to practice fitting in when
that's called for.
When I run a workshop or give a talk, it wouldn't be okay for one of
the participants to monopolize, to "pick my brain," to talk to me
like an equal, to be social or very, very talkative. The others in
the group might vote for that person to have to be silent for the
rest of the workshop or the presentation.
When I go to a workshop or a talk or a camp or a presentation, I
don't talk to the presenter like an equal. I let him have the time
and space he's been alloted to make his presentation. I don't
monopolize his time, even if I'm the organizer. I've just finished
doing that 19 times. (I started to say 22, but I was the presenter
three of the times). http://sandradodd.com/thursday
I still haven't made the last three summary sites.
Instead of looking for a place where a child can be unreasonably
talkative, help him learn when and how to wait.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
" Different situations have different expectations, and it's part of parenting to help kids understand that, and to help them figure out how to gauge it themselves, and how to practice fitting in when that's called for."
I totally agree with you on the points you made. This is an area we are struggling with.
Does anyone have some examples of words to use in those times of coaching - as he gets extremely frustrated with us when we try to coach him during these times. We must be using the wrong words maybe ?
When I say he is social - I mean he loves other people and being with them.
I wasn't trying to find a situation where he could monopolize - that would probably not be possible anyway. I was trying to explain some of how he can be - and you understood me well on that.
We do work at helping him learn how to know "when & how to wait" but maybe we need some ideas of how to do this better. I don't need to be told exactly what to do of course - We just need ideas that will stimulate our own ideas and thoughts that will work with our particular child.
Would we "make" him sit with us so we can help guide him? I'm obviously lost as how to do this without alienating him.
Lisa W.
I totally agree with you on the points you made. This is an area we are struggling with.
Does anyone have some examples of words to use in those times of coaching - as he gets extremely frustrated with us when we try to coach him during these times. We must be using the wrong words maybe ?
When I say he is social - I mean he loves other people and being with them.
I wasn't trying to find a situation where he could monopolize - that would probably not be possible anyway. I was trying to explain some of how he can be - and you understood me well on that.
We do work at helping him learn how to know "when & how to wait" but maybe we need some ideas of how to do this better. I don't need to be told exactly what to do of course - We just need ideas that will stimulate our own ideas and thoughts that will work with our particular child.
Would we "make" him sit with us so we can help guide him? I'm obviously lost as how to do this without alienating him.
Lisa W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-
Does anyone have some examples of words to use in those times of
coaching - as he gets extremely frustrated with us when we try to
coach him during these times. We must be using the wrong words
maybe ?-=-
I think it's more an expression of your concern that he grow up happy
with friends, and that he will be respected and invited back again,
than an exact choice of words.
Maybe you could use a parallel situation, an analogy.
It wouldn't be okay to go into a restaurant during a meal, or to
someone's house during a meal, and sweep all the dishes and food onto
the floor with both arms.
It wouldn't be okay to go to someone else's party, bring in new food,
put their food away, and change the music.
When a class or party or discussion is disrupted or monopolized, it's
basically doing the same thing.
Maybe use my other analogies of speakers, since you're talking about
daycamp and fun-class situations.
Sandra
Does anyone have some examples of words to use in those times of
coaching - as he gets extremely frustrated with us when we try to
coach him during these times. We must be using the wrong words
maybe ?-=-
I think it's more an expression of your concern that he grow up happy
with friends, and that he will be respected and invited back again,
than an exact choice of words.
Maybe you could use a parallel situation, an analogy.
It wouldn't be okay to go into a restaurant during a meal, or to
someone's house during a meal, and sweep all the dishes and food onto
the floor with both arms.
It wouldn't be okay to go to someone else's party, bring in new food,
put their food away, and change the music.
When a class or party or discussion is disrupted or monopolized, it's
basically doing the same thing.
Maybe use my other analogies of speakers, since you're talking about
daycamp and fun-class situations.
Sandra
Ed Wendell
Thanks for the "ideas" we will continue to work on this.
However, for example, when we try to coach him he will often say:
Then I never get a turn; ( I let him know that yes, there may be times he does not get a turn )
I only want to be my authentic self;
If they do not like me the way I truly am then .....;
We have had many talks about being your true authentic self in various ways for various situations. We talk about social rules - whether we agree with them or not is not the point. If you step too far out of those boundaries then you will more than likely end up without friends.
I sometimes wonder if he does not read other's body language cues - so we've been working on pointing out other's cues to him. And you do not necessarily tell everyone everything.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
However, for example, when we try to coach him he will often say:
Then I never get a turn; ( I let him know that yes, there may be times he does not get a turn )
I only want to be my authentic self;
If they do not like me the way I truly am then .....;
We have had many talks about being your true authentic self in various ways for various situations. We talk about social rules - whether we agree with them or not is not the point. If you step too far out of those boundaries then you will more than likely end up without friends.
I sometimes wonder if he does not read other's body language cues - so we've been working on pointing out other's cues to him. And you do not necessarily tell everyone everything.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote:
to be told exactly what to do of course - We just need ideas that
will stimulate our own ideas and thoughts that will work with our
particular child.
*******************
I haven't found explanations to be necessarily all that helpful with
Ray, unless I could make them really short and simple. What has been
more helpful over the years is finding more situations where he can
interact one on one - including having one particular person
(usually adult, but not always) who is willing to befriend and
connect with him in group situations.
out how to gauge it themselves, and how to practice fitting in when
that's called for."
***************
I don't necessarily agree that kids need to "practice fitting in".
Some kids seem to need to find ways to connect on a personal level
within group dynamics - that's what I see with Ray, and with my gf's
kid. When they can connect, the whole group runs more smoothly - but
that's not bc either kid is "fitting in" they've just found a way to
meet their needs that also meets the needs of the group as a whole.
Figuring out how to do that takes facilitation more than
explanation - someone has to be willing to make that connection with
the kid.
of "helping him fit in" or "helping him meet expectations" - those
kinds of assumptions are sending you right to the question of how to
go about modifying his behavior, rather than trying to understand
where he's coming from and what his needs are and working to find
solutions that meet his needs *and* are respectful of others.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
wrote:
>> We do work at helping him learn how to know "when & how to wait"but maybe we need some ideas of how to do this better. I don't need
to be told exactly what to do of course - We just need ideas that
will stimulate our own ideas and thoughts that will work with our
particular child.
*******************
I haven't found explanations to be necessarily all that helpful with
Ray, unless I could make them really short and simple. What has been
more helpful over the years is finding more situations where he can
interact one on one - including having one particular person
(usually adult, but not always) who is willing to befriend and
connect with him in group situations.
> " Different situations have different expectations, and it's partof parenting to help kids understand that, and to help them figure
out how to gauge it themselves, and how to practice fitting in when
that's called for."
***************
I don't necessarily agree that kids need to "practice fitting in".
Some kids seem to need to find ways to connect on a personal level
within group dynamics - that's what I see with Ray, and with my gf's
kid. When they can connect, the whole group runs more smoothly - but
that's not bc either kid is "fitting in" they've just found a way to
meet their needs that also meets the needs of the group as a whole.
Figuring out how to do that takes facilitation more than
explanation - someone has to be willing to make that connection with
the kid.
> Would we "make" him sit with us so we can help guide him? I'mI think this is why its important to step away from the goal
>obviously lost as how to do this without alienating him.
of "helping him fit in" or "helping him meet expectations" - those
kinds of assumptions are sending you right to the question of how to
go about modifying his behavior, rather than trying to understand
where he's coming from and what his needs are and working to find
solutions that meet his needs *and* are respectful of others.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Sandra Dodd
-=-Then I never get a turn; ( I let him know that yes, there may be
times he does not get a turn )
I only want to be my authentic self;
If they do not like me the way I truly am then .....; -=-
-=-We have had many talks about being your true authentic self in
various ways for various situations-=-
I can't advise you there; I've never done that.
"True authentic self"?
I used to crap in a diaper, but when I was able to do differently I
did. (Someday I might end up crapping in a diaper again. Will that e
"my true authentic self"?)
-=-We talk about social rules - whether we agree with them or not is
not the point.-=-
Whether you understand them or not, though, can be HUGELY helpful.
I have always assumed that myself (true, authentic--how does that
help?)... that I was a person who was growing and learning and doing
the best I could.
I have always assumed that my children would be learning and growing
and doing the best they could.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
times he does not get a turn )
I only want to be my authentic self;
If they do not like me the way I truly am then .....; -=-
-=-We have had many talks about being your true authentic self in
various ways for various situations-=-
I can't advise you there; I've never done that.
"True authentic self"?
I used to crap in a diaper, but when I was able to do differently I
did. (Someday I might end up crapping in a diaper again. Will that e
"my true authentic self"?)
-=-We talk about social rules - whether we agree with them or not is
not the point.-=-
Whether you understand them or not, though, can be HUGELY helpful.
I have always assumed that myself (true, authentic--how does that
help?)... that I was a person who was growing and learning and doing
the best I could.
I have always assumed that my children would be learning and growing
and doing the best they could.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
Yes - I totally agree & that is also what we discuss. I want him to be aware of all the nuances.
Lisa W.
Lisa siad "We talk about social rules - whether we agree with them or not is
not the point."
Sandra said " Whether you understand them or not, though, can be HUGELY helpful."
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa W.
Lisa siad "We talk about social rules - whether we agree with them or not is
not the point."
Sandra said " Whether you understand them or not, though, can be HUGELY helpful."
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote:
Your posts make it seem as though you are trying to teach him social
skills. That's something to watch out for. If he wasn't reading,
would you be trying to stuff phonics and context-clues into him so
that he would "be aware of the nuances"? or would you be trying to
meet him where he is, reading things for him when he asked, and
trusting that he would eventually be reading on his own? Right now,
its sounding as though you don't trust that *eventually* he'll have
the skills he needs, so you're trying to stuff some skills into him.
It doesn't work with social skills any more than it does academics.
Like academics, it can actually undermine his eventual skillfullness
to have all this "teaching" going on. It undermines his self
confidence to tell him over and over "no, that's wrong" and can lead
to him being resistant and defensive - didn't you say in another
post that he's arguing with your suggestions?
How can you facilitate more successful social interactions? That's a
better question than "how can I make him aware..." or "how do I get
him to understand". More successful interactions will give him the
background to understand what makes an interaction successful.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
wrote:
>to be aware of all the nuances.
> Yes - I totally agree & that is also what we discuss. I want him
Your posts make it seem as though you are trying to teach him social
skills. That's something to watch out for. If he wasn't reading,
would you be trying to stuff phonics and context-clues into him so
that he would "be aware of the nuances"? or would you be trying to
meet him where he is, reading things for him when he asked, and
trusting that he would eventually be reading on his own? Right now,
its sounding as though you don't trust that *eventually* he'll have
the skills he needs, so you're trying to stuff some skills into him.
It doesn't work with social skills any more than it does academics.
Like academics, it can actually undermine his eventual skillfullness
to have all this "teaching" going on. It undermines his self
confidence to tell him over and over "no, that's wrong" and can lead
to him being resistant and defensive - didn't you say in another
post that he's arguing with your suggestions?
How can you facilitate more successful social interactions? That's a
better question than "how can I make him aware..." or "how do I get
him to understand". More successful interactions will give him the
background to understand what makes an interaction successful.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Sandra Dodd
-=-Your posts make it seem as though you are trying to teach him social
skills. That's something to watch out for. -=-
I disagree, except for the "teach" exception.
When one of my kids couldn't read, I wouldn't have set him or her up
in a situation where reading aloud was required.
-=-Right now,
its sounding as though you don't trust that *eventually* he'll have
the skills he needs, so you're trying to stuff some skills into him. -=-
I thought it was about THIS SUMMER, social situations that involved
being in a group with several kids and an adult leader.
IF he's going to be in such situations, he could use coaching (not
"teaching," but discussion and example and rationalization).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
skills. That's something to watch out for. -=-
I disagree, except for the "teach" exception.
When one of my kids couldn't read, I wouldn't have set him or her up
in a situation where reading aloud was required.
-=-Right now,
its sounding as though you don't trust that *eventually* he'll have
the skills he needs, so you're trying to stuff some skills into him. -=-
I thought it was about THIS SUMMER, social situations that involved
being in a group with several kids and an adult leader.
IF he's going to be in such situations, he could use coaching (not
"teaching," but discussion and example and rationalization).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-How can you facilitate more successful social interactions? That's a
better question than "how can I make him aware..." or "how do I get
him to understand". More successful interactions will give him the
background to understand what makes an interaction successful. -=-
If I have a kid who's a nose picker (I have had), I either need to
make him aware or get him to understand that he needs to do it in
private, in his room, and NOT (EVER) at a restaurant. Ever.
So if he isn't at a point where he understands that, I need to keep
him away from restaurants.
If he really wants to go to a restaurant, or I need for him to go to
one for some formal-dinner reason, then it would be kind and good of
me to try to help him be aware of why finger-pulls-long-booger-out-of-
nose is not a reasonable option at all.
It's not like learning to read.
Learning to read needs lots of little parts that come together into a
large, complex set of mental responses.
To be more still and more quiet in a social situation isn't NEARLY
like reading.
To discuss with a child the needs of the speaker, and the needs of
those trying to listen, isn't parallel to learning to read.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
better question than "how can I make him aware..." or "how do I get
him to understand". More successful interactions will give him the
background to understand what makes an interaction successful. -=-
If I have a kid who's a nose picker (I have had), I either need to
make him aware or get him to understand that he needs to do it in
private, in his room, and NOT (EVER) at a restaurant. Ever.
So if he isn't at a point where he understands that, I need to keep
him away from restaurants.
If he really wants to go to a restaurant, or I need for him to go to
one for some formal-dinner reason, then it would be kind and good of
me to try to help him be aware of why finger-pulls-long-booger-out-of-
nose is not a reasonable option at all.
It's not like learning to read.
Learning to read needs lots of little parts that come together into a
large, complex set of mental responses.
To be more still and more quiet in a social situation isn't NEARLY
like reading.
To discuss with a child the needs of the speaker, and the needs of
those trying to listen, isn't parallel to learning to read.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Social skillfulness is different from reading like logical thinking
is different from reading or playing music is different from
reading.-=-
I think coaching an overly-talkative person to be quiet during a
class or workshop is like showing a kid how and why to hold a book
gently.
Someone can know which end of a book is up and how to treat it gently
without knowing how to read.
Going into a formalish situation and being quieter isn't "social
skillfulness."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is different from reading or playing music is different from
reading.-=-
I think coaching an overly-talkative person to be quiet during a
class or workshop is like showing a kid how and why to hold a book
gently.
Someone can know which end of a book is up and how to treat it gently
without knowing how to read.
Going into a formalish situation and being quieter isn't "social
skillfulness."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
Social skillfulness is different from reading like logical thinking
is different from reading or playing music is different from
reading. Different intelligences involved. When someone doesn't
understand one kind of intelligence very well its sometimes helpful
to think about one of the other kinds of intelligence.
Figuring out how to behave appropriately in social situations needs
lots of little parts to come together - they're different kinds of
parts and different kinds of responses than reading, but the
complexity is similar. Learning to be more still (or more quiet)
isn't one skill, its a bunch of overlapping skills. A large, complex
set of mental and physical responses.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
wrote:
>> To be more still and more quiet in a social situation isn'tNEARLY
> like reading.into a
> Learning to read needs lots of little parts that come together
> large, complex set of mental responses.I've flipped the order of these two sentences.
Social skillfulness is different from reading like logical thinking
is different from reading or playing music is different from
reading. Different intelligences involved. When someone doesn't
understand one kind of intelligence very well its sometimes helpful
to think about one of the other kinds of intelligence.
Figuring out how to behave appropriately in social situations needs
lots of little parts to come together - they're different kinds of
parts and different kinds of responses than reading, but the
complexity is similar. Learning to be more still (or more quiet)
isn't one skill, its a bunch of overlapping skills. A large, complex
set of mental and physical responses.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Meredith
I'm hoping to be a bit clearer which post I'm responding to, this
thread is getting a little tangled!
This post in particular makes me think the poster *isn't* just
talking about one specific kind of social situation:
--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote:
Okay, I cut that down alot so as not to repost the whole thing -
just specific lines that say "often" or "many" or talk in
generalities. That's where I'm getting the idea that there's a lot
of "coaching" going on in a lot of different environments. Coaching
has its use, but if a parent is frequently trying to tell a child
how to behave or what the expectations are, that's going beyond
situational coaching. That's problematical.
and over than either the child isn't ready for it, or its not the
kind of information the child can use.
and still has friends (maybe even friends who say things like "I
forgive you"), is mom lying? or has he just not gone far enough out
of the boundaries?
putting him in situations where he has to wait longer than he's
really capable of waiting. That's not the sort of thing where
something needs to be explained to him - he needs to be in different
situations that meet his needs better. That's part of what I meant
in another post when I talked about facilitating successful
interactions. One way to do that is to look for ways to put kids in
situations that they can really handle - not ideally handle or
even "reasonably" handle by some external standard. If your guy
feels like he "never" gets a turn, look for ways for him to get a
turn more often.
strategy, but I've never been able to tell if the child in question
actually understood more as a result or just got the hint to chill
out. It didn't seem to do more than frustrate Ray the few times I
tried it when he was younger. It may be that it is exactly the right
help for certain kids, though.
If he doesn't seem to be understanding more about body language
despite having it pointed out to him, I'd drop the matter and look
at reasons *why* he might not be seeming to understand body
language. It may be that he's understanding, but not responding in
ways you expect. It may be he's not understanding because his own
needs aren't being met and that's all he can think about.
One of the mistakes I (and his dad and mom) have made is to assume
that since Ray loves to talk that *telling* him things is helpful to
him. What we've found is that *conversing* with Ray is a useful way
to communicate with him. The give and take of conversation is more
valuble, more accessible to him than "being told".
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
thread is getting a little tangled!
This post in particular makes me think the poster *isn't* just
talking about one specific kind of social situation:
--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote:
> However, for example, when we try to coach him he will often say...*************
> We have had many talks about being your true authentic self in
>various ways for various situations....
> I sometimes wonder if he does not read other's body language cues -
> so we've been working on pointing out other's cues to him.
Okay, I cut that down alot so as not to repost the whole thing -
just specific lines that say "often" or "many" or talk in
generalities. That's where I'm getting the idea that there's a lot
of "coaching" going on in a lot of different environments. Coaching
has its use, but if a parent is frequently trying to tell a child
how to behave or what the expectations are, that's going beyond
situational coaching. That's problematical.
> We have had many talks about being your true authentic self inWhy "many talks"? If parents are repeating the same information over
>various ways for various situations.
and over than either the child isn't ready for it, or its not the
kind of information the child can use.
>If you step too far out of those boundaries then you will more thanScare tactics like that can bite you back later. If a kid is wild
>likely end up without friends.
and still has friends (maybe even friends who say things like "I
forgive you"), is mom lying? or has he just not gone far enough out
of the boundaries?
> Then I never get a turn;I'd look into why he feels he "never" gets a turn. Maybe you're
putting him in situations where he has to wait longer than he's
really capable of waiting. That's not the sort of thing where
something needs to be explained to him - he needs to be in different
situations that meet his needs better. That's part of what I meant
in another post when I talked about facilitating successful
interactions. One way to do that is to look for ways to put kids in
situations that they can really handle - not ideally handle or
even "reasonably" handle by some external standard. If your guy
feels like he "never" gets a turn, look for ways for him to get a
turn more often.
> I sometimes wonder if he does not read other's body language cues -Does that seem to help him understand? I've seen people use this
> so we've been working on pointing out other's cues to him.
strategy, but I've never been able to tell if the child in question
actually understood more as a result or just got the hint to chill
out. It didn't seem to do more than frustrate Ray the few times I
tried it when he was younger. It may be that it is exactly the right
help for certain kids, though.
If he doesn't seem to be understanding more about body language
despite having it pointed out to him, I'd drop the matter and look
at reasons *why* he might not be seeming to understand body
language. It may be that he's understanding, but not responding in
ways you expect. It may be he's not understanding because his own
needs aren't being met and that's all he can think about.
One of the mistakes I (and his dad and mom) have made is to assume
that since Ray loves to talk that *telling* him things is helpful to
him. What we've found is that *conversing* with Ray is a useful way
to communicate with him. The give and take of conversation is more
valuble, more accessible to him than "being told".
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Sandra Dodd
-=-It may be he's not understanding because his own
needs aren't being met and that's all he can think about. -=-
Meeting kids' needs seems always the best thing, and I think it's a
fantastic Plan A, but it might not fix everything.
-=-If he doesn't seem to be understanding more about body language
despite having it pointed out to him, I'd drop the matter and look
at reasons *why* he might not be seeming to understand body
language. It may be that he's understanding, but not responding in
ways you expect. It may be he's not understanding because his own
needs aren't being met and that's all he can think about. -=-
It may be he doesn't have much capability to understand, with or
without coaching.
The extreme state of that is termed "Asperger's Syndrome."
But everyone falls somewhere on the scale of "little" to "lots" in
interpersonal intelligence.
Those who can figure it out probably already have done so very early
and the parents don't need to coach.
Those for whom coaching helps probably got the help the first few times.
Those for whom coaching might not every help might need to have help
to avoid situations where they will make others uncomfortable (or
pissed off).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
needs aren't being met and that's all he can think about. -=-
Meeting kids' needs seems always the best thing, and I think it's a
fantastic Plan A, but it might not fix everything.
-=-If he doesn't seem to be understanding more about body language
despite having it pointed out to him, I'd drop the matter and look
at reasons *why* he might not be seeming to understand body
language. It may be that he's understanding, but not responding in
ways you expect. It may be he's not understanding because his own
needs aren't being met and that's all he can think about. -=-
It may be he doesn't have much capability to understand, with or
without coaching.
The extreme state of that is termed "Asperger's Syndrome."
But everyone falls somewhere on the scale of "little" to "lots" in
interpersonal intelligence.
Those who can figure it out probably already have done so very early
and the parents don't need to coach.
Those for whom coaching helps probably got the help the first few times.
Those for whom coaching might not every help might need to have help
to avoid situations where they will make others uncomfortable (or
pissed off).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
Sandra,
What are your thoughts on testing for Asperger's - what would be the advantage to a diagnosis in your opinion?
Having been down the school road for 6 years we already have a few diagnosis under our belt (extremely high IQ; Dyslexia; Dysgraphia; ADHD tendencies; eye tracking/teaming difficulties; sensory integration difficulties) and Asperger's was never mentioned - I know that doesn't mean it is not there. After years of traveling the country and spending thousands of dollars I would only go down that road if I knew there would be a huge benefit to our son.
our son is 13.
Lisa W.
What are your thoughts on testing for Asperger's - what would be the advantage to a diagnosis in your opinion?
Having been down the school road for 6 years we already have a few diagnosis under our belt (extremely high IQ; Dyslexia; Dysgraphia; ADHD tendencies; eye tracking/teaming difficulties; sensory integration difficulties) and Asperger's was never mentioned - I know that doesn't mean it is not there. After years of traveling the country and spending thousands of dollars I would only go down that road if I knew there would be a huge benefit to our son.
our son is 13.
Lisa W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
It may be he doesn't have much capability to understand, with or
without coaching.
The extreme state of that is termed "Asperger's Syndrome."
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-What are your thoughts on testing for Asperger's - what would be
the advantage to a diagnosis in your opinion? -=-
No advantage; I wouldn't even say the word aloud.
Maybe read a little about it (a little, not hours' worth) and see if
it seems familiar. If not, never mind. If so, not a big deal; just
don't expect him to run for public office or become a salesman.
-=-Having been down the school road for 6 years we already have a few
diagnosis under our belt -=-
How are you doing at letting those dissolve into the air and
forgetting about them?
-=-After years of traveling the country and spending thousands of
dollars I would only go down that road if I knew there would be a
huge benefit to our son.-=-
No benefit as far as I know or can imagine.
What your son needs is what any son needs--for his parents to make
his life interesting and comfortable and maybe even joyful.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the advantage to a diagnosis in your opinion? -=-
No advantage; I wouldn't even say the word aloud.
Maybe read a little about it (a little, not hours' worth) and see if
it seems familiar. If not, never mind. If so, not a big deal; just
don't expect him to run for public office or become a salesman.
-=-Having been down the school road for 6 years we already have a few
diagnosis under our belt -=-
How are you doing at letting those dissolve into the air and
forgetting about them?
-=-After years of traveling the country and spending thousands of
dollars I would only go down that road if I knew there would be a
huge benefit to our son.-=-
No benefit as far as I know or can imagine.
What your son needs is what any son needs--for his parents to make
his life interesting and comfortable and maybe even joyful.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote:
ADHD tendencies; eye tracking/teaming difficulties; sensory
integration difficulties) and Asperger's was never mentioned - I
know that doesn't mean it is not there. After years of traveling
the country and spending thousands of dollars I would only go down
that road if I knew there would be a huge benefit to our son.
that if they have difficulties that it is alright and not make them
deficient or less of a person for it. All the labels in the world do
not and will not change who your child is. You know who your child
is and if you accept who he is and what his limits are then you will
both be okay. Sometimes we try too hard to find out what is wrong
with our kids instead of accepting them for who they are.
If your child does not do well in social situations then let him
either handle them in his own way or not be in them.
I have to run but I hope that makes sense
wrote:
>the advantage to a diagnosis in your opinion?
> Sandra,
>
> What are your thoughts on testing for Asperger's - what would be
>diagnosis under our belt (extremely high IQ; Dyslexia; Dysgraphia;
> Having been down the school road for 6 years we already have a few
ADHD tendencies; eye tracking/teaming difficulties; sensory
integration difficulties) and Asperger's was never mentioned - I
know that doesn't mean it is not there. After years of traveling
the country and spending thousands of dollars I would only go down
that road if I knew there would be a huge benefit to our son.
>I think you have to look at your child as who they are and realize
> our son is 13.
>
> Lisa W.
>
>
that if they have difficulties that it is alright and not make them
deficient or less of a person for it. All the labels in the world do
not and will not change who your child is. You know who your child
is and if you accept who he is and what his limits are then you will
both be okay. Sometimes we try too hard to find out what is wrong
with our kids instead of accepting them for who they are.
If your child does not do well in social situations then let him
either handle them in his own way or not be in them.
I have to run but I hope that makes sense
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "wisdomalways5"
<wisdom1133@...> wrote:
when Ray was younger when he wasn't really able to understand a
particular social environment, but did okay as long as someone was
there to help him out - distract him, take him outside, remind him
of particulars, whatever was appropriate for the moment. There are
times now when Mo isn't really able to understand what's going on in
a particular situation, but is willing to ask me for help or to run
some interferrence for her.
Sometimes a kid can only "handle it his own way" if all the adults
are on the same page wrt expectations - that's something I've run
across with Ray many times bc he's consistently been big for his
age. We've often had to deal with other people (kids and adults) who
expected him to be more mature until/unless we could explain that,
no, he's two or three years younger than he looks. We still have
trouble in that regard, sometimes. He's 13, but nearly six feet
tall. People are shocked when he does something really boyish.
her four year old son until she picked up a "what to expect from
your 4yo" book. That day she was able to call her dh and tell him "I
found out what's wrong with ds! He's 4!" Admittedly sometimes those
books can lead to anxiety, if a kid isn't falling in the right
developmental slots, but I'm often pretty amazed at the expectations
people have of younger children, especially.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
<wisdom1133@...> wrote:
>> If your child does not do well in social situations then let himThere are options beyond this either-or, though. There were times
> either handle them in his own way or not be in them.
when Ray was younger when he wasn't really able to understand a
particular social environment, but did okay as long as someone was
there to help him out - distract him, take him outside, remind him
of particulars, whatever was appropriate for the moment. There are
times now when Mo isn't really able to understand what's going on in
a particular situation, but is willing to ask me for help or to run
some interferrence for her.
Sometimes a kid can only "handle it his own way" if all the adults
are on the same page wrt expectations - that's something I've run
across with Ray many times bc he's consistently been big for his
age. We've often had to deal with other people (kids and adults) who
expected him to be more mature until/unless we could explain that,
no, he's two or three years younger than he looks. We still have
trouble in that regard, sometimes. He's 13, but nearly six feet
tall. People are shocked when he does something really boyish.
> Sometimes we try too hard to find out what is wrongYes, a friend of mine tells a story of wondering what was wrong with
> with our kids instead of accepting them for who they are.
her four year old son until she picked up a "what to expect from
your 4yo" book. That day she was able to call her dh and tell him "I
found out what's wrong with ds! He's 4!" Admittedly sometimes those
books can lead to anxiety, if a kid isn't falling in the right
developmental slots, but I'm often pretty amazed at the expectations
people have of younger children, especially.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], "Ed Wendell" <ewendell@...>
wrote:
think our son might be interested in except that he will not write &
cannot spell. (he spelled sorry "sre" yesterday - if you say the
letter sounds s-r-e it sounds like sorry; not all his spelling is
this way but some of it is) In fact he is just beginning to write a
bit this summer all spontaneously on his own and I'd hate to
inadvertently crush that.
he is almost 14 and still spelling "said" "sed" I really do not know
what if anything I can do about it and mostly see it as something he
has to figure out how to cope or deal with. I mean all my efforts to
change his spelling are useless and there are many time I am aware
of how others my view him when he spells something wrong. I think
there are many things he avoids because he knows he spells bad but
at the same time he spends the day chatting on WOW and keeps at it
so something must be working. I hope that if I do not make a big
deal about it and express to him that some people are bad spellers
that he will just have it as part of his persona.
wrote:
>here - we have camps available at science city, zoo, etc. that I
> I would love to offer some of the camps that are available around
think our son might be interested in except that he will not write &
cannot spell. (he spelled sorry "sre" yesterday - if you say the
letter sounds s-r-e it sounds like sorry; not all his spelling is
this way but some of it is) In fact he is just beginning to write a
bit this summer all spontaneously on his own and I'd hate to
inadvertently crush that.
>This sounds like my son who has always spelled things how they sound
he is almost 14 and still spelling "said" "sed" I really do not know
what if anything I can do about it and mostly see it as something he
has to figure out how to cope or deal with. I mean all my efforts to
change his spelling are useless and there are many time I am aware
of how others my view him when he spells something wrong. I think
there are many things he avoids because he knows he spells bad but
at the same time he spends the day chatting on WOW and keeps at it
so something must be working. I hope that if I do not make a big
deal about it and express to him that some people are bad spellers
that he will just have it as part of his persona.
Pamela Sorooshian
You can't "do" anything about his spelling, but you could coach him a
little on how to handle the fact that his spelling isn't very accurate.
There is a little book called "My Kid Can't Spell: Understanding and
Assisting Your Child's Literacy Development."
I got some good ideas for helping one of my daughters cope with not
being much of a speller for many years. In her case, she could often
recognize a correct spelling - if there was a list of words like:
sed, sd, esd, sad, sid, said, sath, siad, and so on, she could very
often pick out the correct one, even though she could seldom come up
with it herself.
I think it helped her feel better about her lack of spelling ability
to have some things she could do, some strategies for dealing with it
- I mean, in addition to asking someone else, "How do you spell....."
which is a perfectly good option, too.
She didn't read the book, by the way and I kept it out of her sight
because I didn't want her to think "I" was worried. I just wanted to
help her out to the degree she wanted help. The focus is on how to
handle not being able to spell, by the way, not on how to teach a kid
to spell.
-pam
little on how to handle the fact that his spelling isn't very accurate.
There is a little book called "My Kid Can't Spell: Understanding and
Assisting Your Child's Literacy Development."
I got some good ideas for helping one of my daughters cope with not
being much of a speller for many years. In her case, she could often
recognize a correct spelling - if there was a list of words like:
sed, sd, esd, sad, sid, said, sath, siad, and so on, she could very
often pick out the correct one, even though she could seldom come up
with it herself.
I think it helped her feel better about her lack of spelling ability
to have some things she could do, some strategies for dealing with it
- I mean, in addition to asking someone else, "How do you spell....."
which is a perfectly good option, too.
She didn't read the book, by the way and I kept it out of her sight
because I didn't want her to think "I" was worried. I just wanted to
help her out to the degree she wanted help. The focus is on how to
handle not being able to spell, by the way, not on how to teach a kid
to spell.
-pam
On Jul 15, 2007, at 8:38 PM, wisdomalways5 wrote:
> This sounds like my son who has always spelled things how they sound
> he is almost 14 and still spelling "said" "sed" I really do not know
> what if anything I can do about it and mostly see it as something he
> has to figure out how to cope or deal with.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
Our son just turned 13. To help him in times when we are not available and to give him independence while on line we purchased an item called Spelling Ace. It works most of the time for him. I say most of the time because there are times he spells the word so "wrongly" that the ace does not understand what he is looking for. Or when he spells "high" as "hi". He keeps this and a calculator beside the computer.
When we first got it last month he walked around playing with it for about a week - he took it everywhere he went. You can also play some games on it. Has a thesaurus and a few other features he does not use at this time.
This item has been very useful for him as he stays up late - way later than mom and dad ;) There are also times when he is home alone - like today we are going to go wallpaper my sister's bathroom and he does not want to go.
Lisa W.
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When we first got it last month he walked around playing with it for about a week - he took it everywhere he went. You can also play some games on it. Has a thesaurus and a few other features he does not use at this time.
This item has been very useful for him as he stays up late - way later than mom and dad ;) There are also times when he is home alone - like today we are going to go wallpaper my sister's bathroom and he does not want to go.
Lisa W.
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Ed Wendell
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
-=-What are your thoughts on testing for Asperger's - what would be
the advantage to a diagnosis in your opinion? -=-
No advantage; I wouldn't even say the word aloud.
Maybe read a little about it (a little, not hours' worth) and see if
it seems familiar. If not, never mind. If so, not a big deal; just
don't expect him to run for public office or become a salesman.
Lisa: These are our (mom & dad) thoughts too but I just wanted to hear your opinion too - just in case we needed to look at it from a different angle. Last winter we had a homeschool mom suggest we get him tested for Asperger's and we said we didn't see the point in it. She was part of the group voting for him to be silent. But that we were working with him on group skills, etc. Our son chose to leave the group due to the pressure & negativeness he was receiving. He'd been happy with this group for several years but for some reason things changed last winter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=-Having been down the school road for 6 years we already have a few
diagnosis under our belt -=-
How are you doing at letting those dissolve into the air and
forgetting about them?
Lisa: obviously they are still there in some form or I would not have mentioned them? Food for thought - thanks! I've been mulling this one over since yesterday off and on and I could write a book in response as there is a lot running through my head. Not conflicting but peaceful thoughts. I do think we need to be aware of his strengths and "weaknesses" to help facilitate successful interactions and activities away from home as well as at home. For example if he wants to take a class we need to be aware that he may need some coaching. Last Christmas all the siblings got together at my mom's for the first time in 27 years. She asked that we all attend church with her and how it would mean so much to her, etc. so we had to do some discussions and coaching with our son before hand about expectations in chruch services and how this meant so much to his nanna, etc. Just a nice conversation with him not a lecture.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What your son needs is what any son needs--for his parents to make
his life interesting and comfortable and maybe even joyful.
Lisa: Which is why we pulled him from school and went straight to unschooling. We know we are not perfect and are here to stretch and grow.
Lisa W.
.
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Ed Wendell
Just wanted everyone to know hubby and I did read all the posts and responses and have had / are having some interesting discussions based upon them (hubby is the stay at home person in our family) - so even if I did not respond to each post we did read them and make use of them.
Is it OK to say this on this list ? or was it just superfluous ?
Lisa W.
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Is it OK to say this on this list ? or was it just superfluous ?
Lisa W.
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Last Christmas all the siblings got together at my mom's for the
first time in 27 years. She asked that we all attend church with her
and how it would mean so much to her, etc. so we had to do some
discussions and coaching with our son before hand about expectations
in chruch services and how this meant so much to his nanna, etc. Just
a nice conversation with him not a lecture.
-=-
We were discussing a situation involving a 22 year old friend. It's
not an Asperger's situation--he's extremely high on the
interpersonals business, can read people like magic, but he's not the
quietest or most tactful or patient of people. Holly and I were
discussing taking him with us to a formal in-costume discussion in
another state. (SCA context, so SCA costume.)
Holly suggested that if we put him in a costume, and he sees all the
other costumes, he wouldn't be able to sit still and be calm and
quiet for two or three hours.
I said then we make sure he has paper and pencils. Holly agreed, and
said he needs to be sitting at a table.
This friend of ours draws. He does pencil drawings while he's
talking, while he's eating, while he's on the phone. He's working
for a dancing-tree logo for my website.
I don't draw, but I do fully and physically understand the value of
doodling to keep my hyperactive tendencies under my own control. In
church, I was able to sit still for an hour because there were songs
to sing sometimes, but during sermons (which I DID listen to and
understand, and often looked up the passage to find how HORRIBLY out
of context the preacher was taking it, or to find something he so
TOTALLY could have tied in but he had missed it)... During sermons I
would write on the program. I would mark parts of words out to make
it say other things, or count the times "the" was used or color in
the "o"s or circle some words and number them and then put a code to
go from word to word and pass it to my friend Martha who, if she
wasn't playing the piano or organ that day, would trade programs and
I'd see what she'd done to hers.
We could do it very unobtrusively and we didn't disrupt the service.
We were two of the best kids at church--helpful, dedicated, but
without the ability to chill to a standstill.
So if our friend goes with us to Denver we will provide him a good
place to sit where he can draw, and we'll debrief him all he wants
later and on the drive home, and explain the things that were too
foreign for him to get.
Holly's right, though, that if we just dressed him up and put him in
a candlelit environment with a bunch of strangers it wouldn't calm
him, it would excite him and he'd likely say things and act ways we'd
wish to undo. He'll be happier if we help him hear the stuff
without disrupting it.
I wouldn't even have invited him, because he's not in the SCA, but he
said on Saturday that he's sorry he missed last winter's philosophy
discussions and he would love to be in a discussion about honor and
virtue. This thing next weekend is the only one scheduled. Next
winter I'm doing something more like show and tell on those Wednesday
nights, more about arts and that.
Sandra
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first time in 27 years. She asked that we all attend church with her
and how it would mean so much to her, etc. so we had to do some
discussions and coaching with our son before hand about expectations
in chruch services and how this meant so much to his nanna, etc. Just
a nice conversation with him not a lecture.
-=-
We were discussing a situation involving a 22 year old friend. It's
not an Asperger's situation--he's extremely high on the
interpersonals business, can read people like magic, but he's not the
quietest or most tactful or patient of people. Holly and I were
discussing taking him with us to a formal in-costume discussion in
another state. (SCA context, so SCA costume.)
Holly suggested that if we put him in a costume, and he sees all the
other costumes, he wouldn't be able to sit still and be calm and
quiet for two or three hours.
I said then we make sure he has paper and pencils. Holly agreed, and
said he needs to be sitting at a table.
This friend of ours draws. He does pencil drawings while he's
talking, while he's eating, while he's on the phone. He's working
for a dancing-tree logo for my website.
I don't draw, but I do fully and physically understand the value of
doodling to keep my hyperactive tendencies under my own control. In
church, I was able to sit still for an hour because there were songs
to sing sometimes, but during sermons (which I DID listen to and
understand, and often looked up the passage to find how HORRIBLY out
of context the preacher was taking it, or to find something he so
TOTALLY could have tied in but he had missed it)... During sermons I
would write on the program. I would mark parts of words out to make
it say other things, or count the times "the" was used or color in
the "o"s or circle some words and number them and then put a code to
go from word to word and pass it to my friend Martha who, if she
wasn't playing the piano or organ that day, would trade programs and
I'd see what she'd done to hers.
We could do it very unobtrusively and we didn't disrupt the service.
We were two of the best kids at church--helpful, dedicated, but
without the ability to chill to a standstill.
So if our friend goes with us to Denver we will provide him a good
place to sit where he can draw, and we'll debrief him all he wants
later and on the drive home, and explain the things that were too
foreign for him to get.
Holly's right, though, that if we just dressed him up and put him in
a candlelit environment with a bunch of strangers it wouldn't calm
him, it would excite him and he'd likely say things and act ways we'd
wish to undo. He'll be happier if we help him hear the stuff
without disrupting it.
I wouldn't even have invited him, because he's not in the SCA, but he
said on Saturday that he's sorry he missed last winter's philosophy
discussions and he would love to be in a discussion about honor and
virtue. This thing next weekend is the only one scheduled. Next
winter I'm doing something more like show and tell on those Wednesday
nights, more about arts and that.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-so even if I did not respond to each post we did read them and
make use of them.
-=-Is it OK to say this on this list ? or was it just superfluous ?-=-
It's superfluous, but still reassuring, and it's okay. <g>
It's better not to respond to each post. The best posts are
syntheses and updates and refined questions. Let us know, after a
while, if any of the suggestions helped, or if you came up with other
ideas the rest of us can use!
Sandra
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make use of them.
-=-Is it OK to say this on this list ? or was it just superfluous ?-=-
It's superfluous, but still reassuring, and it's okay. <g>
It's better not to respond to each post. The best posts are
syntheses and updates and refined questions. Let us know, after a
while, if any of the suggestions helped, or if you came up with other
ideas the rest of us can use!
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
-=-When we first got it last month he walked around playing with it
for about a week - he took it everywhere he went. You can also play
some games on it. Has a thesaurus and a few other features he does
not use at this time.-=-
Holly has one of those we got her when she was learning to read and
spell. Something blue, for kids, from Radio Shack. She played
hangman LOTS with it, and it would show the word in cursive, too,
writing it out slowly, which helped her lots of ways. She had time
to think about the spelling while it spelled it out (or she could
skip that).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
for about a week - he took it everywhere he went. You can also play
some games on it. Has a thesaurus and a few other features he does
not use at this time.-=-
Holly has one of those we got her when she was learning to read and
spell. Something blue, for kids, from Radio Shack. She played
hangman LOTS with it, and it would show the word in cursive, too,
writing it out slowly, which helped her lots of ways. She had time
to think about the spelling while it spelled it out (or she could
skip that).
Sandra
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Ed Wendell
Update.
Dear son asked for horseback riding lessons again - he took them about 3 years ago for one summer. He loved it and the instructor, but the instructor lost her place. He has asked since then about lessons. About once a year he'll bring it up and we'll try to find a place, but we could never find a place close enough to do this long term.
Anyway, he asked last week about it. I found out through contacts that the lady he connected with so well is doing lessons again fairly close to us. We talked to her today. He will have his first lesson next Tuesday. She wants to do a few private lessons to get a feel for what he remembers, she remembers that he took to the saddle really well, and then move him into a group. I think this will work out great as a group experience for him. He will have to follow the group rules due to safety, respect for the other riders and the horse, waiting his turn, etc. But he will also be very active.
I know this is not the same as sitting through something and having to be silent and waiting his turn but hopefully this will meet his needs - where he is now.
It's expensive too! ; )
He is very excited - talking about owning his own horse some day, etc.
Lisa W.
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Dear son asked for horseback riding lessons again - he took them about 3 years ago for one summer. He loved it and the instructor, but the instructor lost her place. He has asked since then about lessons. About once a year he'll bring it up and we'll try to find a place, but we could never find a place close enough to do this long term.
Anyway, he asked last week about it. I found out through contacts that the lady he connected with so well is doing lessons again fairly close to us. We talked to her today. He will have his first lesson next Tuesday. She wants to do a few private lessons to get a feel for what he remembers, she remembers that he took to the saddle really well, and then move him into a group. I think this will work out great as a group experience for him. He will have to follow the group rules due to safety, respect for the other riders and the horse, waiting his turn, etc. But he will also be very active.
I know this is not the same as sitting through something and having to be silent and waiting his turn but hopefully this will meet his needs - where he is now.
It's expensive too! ; )
He is very excited - talking about owning his own horse some day, etc.
Lisa W.
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