Tori

Okay.. I had to respond to this:

Sandra wrote:
<snip> I think the idea that we choose our
birth-body/family is wrong and
dangerous.

I am confused as to why this idea would be considered
dangerous. Personally, I think we *do* choose our own
family, as well as attract all the 'positive' and
'negative' things that happen to us. I don't mean to
say that we are necessarily responsible on a conscious
level, or that anyone should ever feel guilty for
something that happens to them.. only that we are
often creating by default, and that every situation
can change for the better. Why is this a dangerous
idea?

Love, Tori






=====
Tori Kirkby
Creative spirit and mom to Jade (3 1/2) and mystery baby due in 1 week

The basis of life is Freedom
The objective of life is Joy
The result of life is Growth
- Abraham, 1989

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In a message dated 1/15/02 5:52:26 PM, rainbowlovespirit@... writes:

<< Personally, I think we *do* choose our own
family, as well as attract all the 'positive' and
'negative' things that happen to us. I don't mean to
say that we are necessarily responsible on a conscious
level, or that anyone should ever feel guilty for
something that happens to them.. only that we are
often creating by default, and that every situation
can change for the better. Why is this a dangerous
idea? >>

Because it justifies abuse and violence.
If people have attracted the negative things that happen to them, then not
only do they not need to feel guilty, but those who DO the things don't need
to feel guilty.

If parents don't bother to be the best possible parents they can be, they can
just say "OH well, these kids chose us, and I guess we were fated to be
half-ass parents."

Sandra

rainbowlovespirit

Why is this a dangerous
> idea? >>
>
> Because it justifies abuse and violence.
> If people have attracted the negative things that happen to them,
then not
> only do they not need to feel guilty, but those who DO the things
don't need
> to feel guilty.

***Well, nobody needs to feel guilty.. people just need to try to do
the best they can from this moment on.

> If parents don't bother to be the best possible parents they can
be, they can
> just say "OH well, these kids chose us, and I guess we were fated
to be
> half-ass parents."

***Okay, I see what you are saying, but couldn't almost *any* point
of view be used to justify abuse and violence? "Oh well, everything
is random and pointless anyway, and we're all going to die... we
might as well have fun now.. who cares about being a good parent?"

I think trying to fully explain this belief system would probably
take more time (and interest) than we all have.. but I think it is
easy to take one idea out of context and call it dangerous...
certainly that could be done with many 'religious' theories as well.
(Admittedly, not my area of expertise :-) )

Love, Tori

rainbowlovespirit

Just in case anyone is interested in the idea of people choosing
their families... here is a link that addresses that. (Interesting
reading, if nothing else :-) )


http://abraham-hicks.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?
grab_id=10774881&EXTRA_ARG=&host_id=1&page_id=48&query=choose+family&h
iword=CHOOSE+FAMILY+CHOOSING+FAMILYS+CHOOSER+FAMILIES+CHOOSES+

Love, Tori

[email protected]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:46:28 -0800 (PST) Tori
<rainbowlovespirit@...> writes:
> Personally, I think we *do* choose our own
> family, as well as attract all the 'positive' and
> 'negative' things that happen to us. I don't mean to
> say that we are necessarily responsible on a conscious
> level, or that anyone should ever feel guilty for
> something that happens to them.. only that we are
> often creating by default, and that every situation
> can change for the better. Why is this a dangerous
> idea?

Because it enables us to again blame the victim. If someone "chose" to be
born into a family where she is then raped, beat, tortured, locked in a
car trunk for days, whatever... well, that's what they "chose". And
sometimes, hard as it is to face it, people have no power to change a
situation for the better. Sometimes people, especially children, are
powerless.

Dar
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In a message dated 1/15/02 6:50:43 PM Mountain Standard Time,
rainbowlovespirit@... writes:


> Okay, I see what you are saying, but couldn't almost *any* point
> of view be used to justify abuse and violence? "Oh well, everything
> is random and pointless anyway, and we're all going to die... we
> might as well have fun now.. who cares about being a good parent?"
>
>

I don't see how saying "I brought these children into the world and their
happiness is my responsibility entirely" will justify abuse or violence.

The only people I've ever known who lived by "Oh well... who cares..." were
raised Christian, and having given up whatever hope they might have had of
going to heaven, are now figuring since they're going to hell now it doesn't
matter. Or that since they're no longer Christian (even if they don't
believe in hell) it no longer matters whether they try to be Christlike.
Outside drug addiction, big alcoholism, or the relief of being away from
church (or a combo thereof), I've never known a human being to voice "who
cares."

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rainbowlovespirit

> > Okay, I see what you are saying, but couldn't almost *any* point
> > of view be used to justify abuse and violence? "Oh well,
everything
> > is random and pointless anyway, and we're all going to die... we
> > might as well have fun now.. who cares about being a good
parent?"
> >
> >
>
> I don't see how saying "I brought these children into the world and
their
> happiness is my responsibility entirely" will justify abuse or
violence.

***yes, but comparing that to the situation that I described is the
equivalent of comparing "Oh well, my children chose me knowing they
were getting a crappy parent" to "My children choosing me is a huge
honour and I will do my utmost to take care of them to the best of my
ability". Same belief.. totally different way of interpreting it. I
suppose either one could be termed 'dangerous'.

>
> The only people I've ever known who lived by "Oh well... who
cares..." were
> raised Christian, and having given up whatever hope they might have
had of
> going to heaven, are now figuring since they're going to hell now
it doesn't
> matter. Or that since they're no longer Christian (even if they
don't
> believe in hell) it no longer matters whether they try to be
Christlike.
> Outside drug addiction, big alcoholism, or the relief of being
away from
> church (or a combo thereof), I've never known a human being to
voice "who
> cares."

***I happen to agree with you...I think most people do care about
their children and are doing the best they can. (Succeeding to
varying degrees) That's why I don't see my beliefs as more dangerous
than any others.

Love, Tori

rainbowlovespirit

Why is this a dangerous
> > idea?
>
> Because it enables us to again blame the victim. If someone "chose"
to be
> born into a family where she is then raped, beat, tortured, locked
in a
> car trunk for days, whatever... well, that's what they "chose". And
> sometimes, hard as it is to face it, people have no power to change
a
> situation for the better. Sometimes people, especially children, are
> powerless.


***Well, this is where the 'out of context' thing comes in. If you
believe that we only live one life and that children are innocent
bystanders then I can see why you would feel this way. I think we all
are old souls who have been around many times, in many different
situations. I think we have chosen and attracted our current
circumstances in ways and for reasons that are not always clear.
That's not to say that I wouldn't have sympathy for someone who was
in a horrible situation, or that I wouldn't help if I could...

I guess I'm talking about 2 different levels here.. we choose things
on one level that we are not necessarily consciously aware of... does
that mean blame the victim? Not at all.. it means be aware that
things have a higher purpose than we may be able to realize right now.

Love, Tori