Children of Divorce
Dawn Falbe
When we are talking about abusive beviour I would think the kids are better
off emotionally out of that situation. Arn't these extremes though, or is
it general consencious that "most men" are either abusive, drunks, sex
addicts, have affairs, etc etc? Obviously it's much healther to leave in
those situations. But what about those situations where the husband is
bored and just doesn't want to be married or take care of his children
anymore. And of course if there are so many men that are abusive etc etc
whose raising them to be that way, whose marrying them and whose putting up
with their behavior?
Dawn
<<<<Maybe it depends not only on the child, but on the
relationship that the divorcing parents have with the
child. My father was a kind drunk (no abuse, just
cheerfully drunk all the time) who rarely kept the
promises he often made and was generally
there-but-not-there. So losing him didn't have much
impact.
Pam>>>>
Wow, this sounds almost like my dad! He could be
abusive to my mom on occasion though. My parents
divorced when I was 6 and the only feeling type memory
I have from it is relief. I was really glad when he
moved out. Home life became much more peaceful and my
mom was so much happier. I have a relationship with my
dad now, but it's so superficial. I can't imagine
talking to him about anything in depth. If I've ever
tried to bring up anything in the least bit 'deep', he
changes the subject or leaves straight away. Poor guy,
he's so emotionally stunted.
Meghan
off emotionally out of that situation. Arn't these extremes though, or is
it general consencious that "most men" are either abusive, drunks, sex
addicts, have affairs, etc etc? Obviously it's much healther to leave in
those situations. But what about those situations where the husband is
bored and just doesn't want to be married or take care of his children
anymore. And of course if there are so many men that are abusive etc etc
whose raising them to be that way, whose marrying them and whose putting up
with their behavior?
Dawn
<<<<Maybe it depends not only on the child, but on the
relationship that the divorcing parents have with the
child. My father was a kind drunk (no abuse, just
cheerfully drunk all the time) who rarely kept the
promises he often made and was generally
there-but-not-there. So losing him didn't have much
impact.
Pam>>>>
Wow, this sounds almost like my dad! He could be
abusive to my mom on occasion though. My parents
divorced when I was 6 and the only feeling type memory
I have from it is relief. I was really glad when he
moved out. Home life became much more peaceful and my
mom was so much happier. I have a relationship with my
dad now, but it's so superficial. I can't imagine
talking to him about anything in depth. If I've ever
tried to bring up anything in the least bit 'deep', he
changes the subject or leaves straight away. Poor guy,
he's so emotionally stunted.
Meghan
Shyrley
Dawn Falbe wrote:
his children. He was out at work all day and it was my mother who took
us to the beach, played with us and cooked meals. I don't even recall
him from weekends. I think he was a typical father of the 70's and 80's.
Not the prime carer.
This was the reason his leaving had little impact. Apart from having to
move house and going on the UK equivelent (sp?) of welfare. Thats what I
noticed really. Not having any money, not the absence of a father.
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> When we are talking about abusive beviour I would think the kids areMy father wasn't abusive etc but he didn't really show much interest in
> better
> off emotionally out of that situation. Arn't these extremes though,
> or is
> it general consencious that "most men" are either abusive, drunks, sex
>
> addicts, have affairs, etc etc? Obviously it's much healther to leave
> in
> those situations. But what about those situations where the husband
> is
> bored and just doesn't want to be married or take care of his children
>
> anymore. And of course if there are so many men that are abusive etc
> etc
> whose raising them to be that way, whose marrying them and whose
> putting up
> with their behavior?
>
> Dawn
>
his children. He was out at work all day and it was my mother who took
us to the beach, played with us and cooked meals. I don't even recall
him from weekends. I think he was a typical father of the 70's and 80's.
Not the prime carer.
This was the reason his leaving had little impact. Apart from having to
move house and going on the UK equivelent (sp?) of welfare. Thats what I
noticed really. Not having any money, not the absence of a father.
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
Again, I think it probably depends some on the child and some on the
relationship between the father and the child. If there is no real
relationship -- Dad is a guy who shows up evenings and weekends and heads
directly for the garage -- some (many? most? don't know) children may really
not feel much angst at his leaving permanently.
Pam
----------
From: Shyrley <shyrley@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Children of Divorce
Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002, 7:52 AM
relationship between the father and the child. If there is no real
relationship -- Dad is a guy who shows up evenings and weekends and heads
directly for the garage -- some (many? most? don't know) children may really
not feel much angst at his leaving permanently.
Pam
----------
From: Shyrley <shyrley@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Children of Divorce
Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002, 7:52 AM
> When we are talking about abusive beviour I would think the kids are[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> better
> off emotionally out of that situation. Arn't these extremes though,
> or is
> it general consencious that "most men" are either abusive, drunks, sex
>
> addicts, have affairs, etc etc? Obviously it's much healther to leave
> in
> those situations. But what about those situations where the husband
> is
> bored and just doesn't want to be married or take care of his children
>
> anymore. And of course if there are so many men that are abusive etc
> etc
> whose raising them to be that way, whose marrying them and whose
> putting up
> with their behavior?
meghan anderson
<<<<When we are talking about abusive beviour I would
think the kids are better off emotionally out of that
situation. Arn't these extremes though, or is it
general consencious that "most men" are either
abusive, drunks, sex addicts, have affairs, etc etc?
Obviously it's much healther to leave in those
situations. But what about those situations where the
husband is bored and just doesn't want to be married
or take care of his children anymore. And of course
if there are so many men that are abusive etc etc
whose raising them to be that way, whose marrying them
and whose putting up with their behavior?
Dawn>>>>
I don't remember any distinctions being draw in the
original post regarding children of an amicable
divorce and children of an antagonistic divorce. It
seemed to me to indicate children of *all* divorced
parents. Of course not all men are abusive, etc.
Tamzin's dad is a lovely, kindhearted man. His new
wife is equally lovely and has a wonderfully close
bond with Tamzin. We started doing a family tree and
there was no question of the fact that Sadie would be
included on our family tree (as well as her new
granny, aunts and cousins - Tamzin's delighted to have
cousins!).
Unfortunately, I also think there is a lot more abuse
going on in the world than people would care to admit
(by abuse I mean emotional as well as physical). A lot
of people raised in abusive households seem to seek it
out as adults (not consciously, of course).
Also, if the husband *is* bored and doesn't *want* to
take care of his children, wouldn't he make a crap
parent anyhow?
Just my various different thoughts on the subject.
Meghan
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think the kids are better off emotionally out of that
situation. Arn't these extremes though, or is it
general consencious that "most men" are either
abusive, drunks, sex addicts, have affairs, etc etc?
Obviously it's much healther to leave in those
situations. But what about those situations where the
husband is bored and just doesn't want to be married
or take care of his children anymore. And of course
if there are so many men that are abusive etc etc
whose raising them to be that way, whose marrying them
and whose putting up with their behavior?
Dawn>>>>
I don't remember any distinctions being draw in the
original post regarding children of an amicable
divorce and children of an antagonistic divorce. It
seemed to me to indicate children of *all* divorced
parents. Of course not all men are abusive, etc.
Tamzin's dad is a lovely, kindhearted man. His new
wife is equally lovely and has a wonderfully close
bond with Tamzin. We started doing a family tree and
there was no question of the fact that Sadie would be
included on our family tree (as well as her new
granny, aunts and cousins - Tamzin's delighted to have
cousins!).
Unfortunately, I also think there is a lot more abuse
going on in the world than people would care to admit
(by abuse I mean emotional as well as physical). A lot
of people raised in abusive households seem to seek it
out as adults (not consciously, of course).
Also, if the husband *is* bored and doesn't *want* to
take care of his children, wouldn't he make a crap
parent anyhow?
Just my various different thoughts on the subject.
Meghan
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[email protected]
-=-I don't remember any distinctions being draw in the
original post regarding children of an amicable
divorce and children of an antagonistic divorce. It
seemed to me to indicate children of *all* divorced
parents. -=-
I don't know if it was me or not. I was very unhappy with my parents'
divorce, and I was 17/18 at the time. My sister was 13/14 and it messed her
up quite a bit. The two cousins my parents had been raising were 14 and 18,
and they were just kind of released to the universe--their second major loss
of family.
My dad wasn't abusive at all. His next wife was of SUCH a different
tradition and mindset is was jarring at the least and insane on the worst
days. (It didn't last long.)
There are issues besides "do I miss my dad being here?"
Those who divorce like to soothe themselves that some kids do fine, but many
ARE hurt, and I think it's most. Even if the parent is awful, the message
that comes to the children is that the mom or dad would rather abandon their
children than just do better to be there. And that's pretty much true. One
parent runs the other off because the parents don't get along, instead of
them doing their utmost to be good people for the sake of their children.
And these same people are often punishing kids for not "being good" ("good"
being defined by whatever the parents want to make up at the time). Alcohol
abuse, gambling, fooling around--those are not habits easy to break. But
they could MAYBE wait until the kids are grown and then indulge their nasty
habits.
I justified all the bad parts of school while I was in. Maybe I used up all
my justification there. Some kids with persuasive parents justify all the
bad parts of divorce, maybe, and having used up all their justification they
decide school is a horror show without redemption.
Sandra
original post regarding children of an amicable
divorce and children of an antagonistic divorce. It
seemed to me to indicate children of *all* divorced
parents. -=-
I don't know if it was me or not. I was very unhappy with my parents'
divorce, and I was 17/18 at the time. My sister was 13/14 and it messed her
up quite a bit. The two cousins my parents had been raising were 14 and 18,
and they were just kind of released to the universe--their second major loss
of family.
My dad wasn't abusive at all. His next wife was of SUCH a different
tradition and mindset is was jarring at the least and insane on the worst
days. (It didn't last long.)
There are issues besides "do I miss my dad being here?"
Those who divorce like to soothe themselves that some kids do fine, but many
ARE hurt, and I think it's most. Even if the parent is awful, the message
that comes to the children is that the mom or dad would rather abandon their
children than just do better to be there. And that's pretty much true. One
parent runs the other off because the parents don't get along, instead of
them doing their utmost to be good people for the sake of their children.
And these same people are often punishing kids for not "being good" ("good"
being defined by whatever the parents want to make up at the time). Alcohol
abuse, gambling, fooling around--those are not habits easy to break. But
they could MAYBE wait until the kids are grown and then indulge their nasty
habits.
I justified all the bad parts of school while I was in. Maybe I used up all
my justification there. Some kids with persuasive parents justify all the
bad parts of divorce, maybe, and having used up all their justification they
decide school is a horror show without redemption.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/02 8:39:20 AM, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< I justified all the bad parts of school while I was in. Maybe I used up
all
my justification there. Some kids with persuasive parents justify all the
bad parts of divorce, maybe, and having used up all their justification they
decide school is a horror show without redemption.
divorce was fine. It just was. I will not try to talk people out of their bad
experiences with divorce - I'm sure for many many people it's awful. My most
awful moments were knowing that I was glad to not live with my dad anymore.
He wasn't overtly abusive or a really bad guy - but he was hard to live with,
very angry and impulsive. Divorce made him a BETTER dad, more mindful.
If we have bad marriages, that is what our children think marriage is. That's
their model. Sometimes divorce is better.
Paula
<< I justified all the bad parts of school while I was in. Maybe I used up
all
my justification there. Some kids with persuasive parents justify all the
bad parts of divorce, maybe, and having used up all their justification they
decide school is a horror show without redemption.
>>I don't have to be defensive nor did my parents try to persuade me that their
divorce was fine. It just was. I will not try to talk people out of their bad
experiences with divorce - I'm sure for many many people it's awful. My most
awful moments were knowing that I was glad to not live with my dad anymore.
He wasn't overtly abusive or a really bad guy - but he was hard to live with,
very angry and impulsive. Divorce made him a BETTER dad, more mindful.
If we have bad marriages, that is what our children think marriage is. That's
their model. Sometimes divorce is better.
Paula
carolyn
SandraDodd@... wrote:
children respond. When my dad left, I had nightmares for a very long
time that he would return. My brother's parting words to him threatened
his life.
My older sister, on the other hand, maintained an almost life long wish
that our parents would be reunited (and after three "I do's" I don't
think she's found a happy marriage for herself, yet). I think the
difference stems from the child's relationship to the soon-to-be-missing
parent. My sister may well have had a better life if my parents had
stayed married. I might not have survived it.
I think some kids are fine after divorce, or AT LEAST better off and I
don't think it's just the abused ones (though that word certainly gets
used to cover an amazing array of behavior).
I think almost all kids are still hurt by divorce. Your view of the
world changes, of marriage, of family, of love, etc. But, to be
meaningful, it has to be measured against the hurt of staying.
Sometimes the marriage hurts even more. Certainly that would be true
for adults, why not kids? Sometimes divorce is the better alternative,
maybe not a good one, but a better one.
In contemplating my own divorce, knowing I wanted out was the easier
part. It was much more difficult to choose between my daughter's
unhappiness if I stayed with him and her unhappiness if I didn't. Which
would hurt her more? To not choose, was to choose.
I didn't tell myself that she'd be okay because I wanted to leave the
marriage. I made two choices. One for what was best for me and one for
what was best for her. I probably would have stayed if I thought it
was best for her though "staying together for the kids" isn't
necessarily doing them a favor either.
I'm sure everybody doesn't get divorced for "good" reason, just as they
don't necessarily get married for "good" reason. I once worked for a
rich (she'd inherited a family fortune) elderly woman who told me she
divorced her husband because he insisted on working (he was a doctor).
"No husband of mine is ever going to work," she spit out as though it
were a dirty word. She had two sons and, indeed, they never worked.
Carolyn
> I don't know if it was me or not. I was very unhappy with my parents'Even within the same family, there can be tremendous differences in how
>
> divorce, and I was 17/18 at the time. My sister was 13/14 and it
> messed her
> up quite a bit.
children respond. When my dad left, I had nightmares for a very long
time that he would return. My brother's parting words to him threatened
his life.
My older sister, on the other hand, maintained an almost life long wish
that our parents would be reunited (and after three "I do's" I don't
think she's found a happy marriage for herself, yet). I think the
difference stems from the child's relationship to the soon-to-be-missing
parent. My sister may well have had a better life if my parents had
stayed married. I might not have survived it.
I think some kids are fine after divorce, or AT LEAST better off and I
don't think it's just the abused ones (though that word certainly gets
used to cover an amazing array of behavior).
I think almost all kids are still hurt by divorce. Your view of the
world changes, of marriage, of family, of love, etc. But, to be
meaningful, it has to be measured against the hurt of staying.
Sometimes the marriage hurts even more. Certainly that would be true
for adults, why not kids? Sometimes divorce is the better alternative,
maybe not a good one, but a better one.
In contemplating my own divorce, knowing I wanted out was the easier
part. It was much more difficult to choose between my daughter's
unhappiness if I stayed with him and her unhappiness if I didn't. Which
would hurt her more? To not choose, was to choose.
I didn't tell myself that she'd be okay because I wanted to leave the
marriage. I made two choices. One for what was best for me and one for
what was best for her. I probably would have stayed if I thought it
was best for her though "staying together for the kids" isn't
necessarily doing them a favor either.
I'm sure everybody doesn't get divorced for "good" reason, just as they
don't necessarily get married for "good" reason. I once worked for a
rich (she'd inherited a family fortune) elderly woman who told me she
divorced her husband because he insisted on working (he was a doctor).
"No husband of mine is ever going to work," she spit out as though it
were a dirty word. She had two sons and, indeed, they never worked.
Carolyn
Nanci Kuykendall
>Unfortunately, I also think there is a lot more abuselot
>going on in the world than people would care to admit
>(by abuse I mean emotional as well as physical). A
>of people raised in abusive households seem to seekit
>out as adults (not consciously, of course).I had the same thoughts. I agree.
>Also, if the husband *is* bored and doesn't *want* to
>take care of his children, wouldn't he make a crap
>parent anyhow?
>Meghan
Nanci K.
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Sharon Rudd
>Also, if the husband *is* bored and doesn't *want*If you take it one step farther ANYONE who doesn't
> to
> >take care of his children, wouldn't he make a crap
> >parent anyhow?
"want" to take care of children would (does)make a
crap child care person.......(ie person who do this
only for $$$ such as some "teachers", bus drivers) or
sibling babysitters who don't want to, or some
fathers, sweethearts, etc.
I remember once asking my little sister, when she was
about 14 to watch David (then 2)while I ran to the
grocery. She said in a nasty tone "You had 'm, you
take care of 'm." Surprised me, I hadn't entrusted her
with his care before, and it was only to be about and
hour, but I said "Good point, Nancy. I will."
And I did. Do. Have. Never asked her again. She never
offered. But. She has been (is) an outstanding, good
mother to her own children. I hope I was an influence
her. She says I was. Am. She is 42 now, has thee
kiddos. 21, 19, and 15 (one of my Godsons). She's the
one of whom I took custody. She is the one I quoted
as saying, of our dress wearing nephew, "Well, if he
can pretend to be a kitty or a dog or a monkey (or
whatever they were), why can't he pretend to be a
girl?"
Anyway the point is: Only people who want to care for
children should be allowed to do so. Including
biological family members or other legally acceptable
caretakers. Hopefully the children will follow the
example of the loving responsible custodian rather
than the immature, negligent, whoevers.
SOS
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In a message dated 1/15/02 3:46:23 PM, bearspawprint@... writes:
<< I remember once asking my little sister, when she was
about 14 to watch David (then 2)while I ran to the
grocery. She said in a nasty tone "You had 'm, you
take care of 'm." >>
My mom said something along those lines when Kirby was one and she was...
something over fifty, and living with us for free.
After I had had custody of her late-life "oops!" for two different stints
(four+ and 13+?)
But it was okay. She was just too, too nervous and was such a bad mom to my
brother that it was kind of a relief. She was a baby-spanker.
Sandra
<< I remember once asking my little sister, when she was
about 14 to watch David (then 2)while I ran to the
grocery. She said in a nasty tone "You had 'm, you
take care of 'm." >>
My mom said something along those lines when Kirby was one and she was...
something over fifty, and living with us for free.
After I had had custody of her late-life "oops!" for two different stints
(four+ and 13+?)
But it was okay. She was just too, too nervous and was such a bad mom to my
brother that it was kind of a relief. She was a baby-spanker.
Sandra
meghan anderson
<<<<Those who divorce like to soothe themselves that
some kids do fine, but many ARE hurt, and I think it's
most. >>>>
I'm sure all kids are hurt to some degree, but I also
think the key thing here is weighing up which is going
to hurt the child more in the long run, divorce or
staying together (for the sake of the child).
<<<< Even if the parent is awful, the message that
comes to the children is that the mom or dad would
rather abandon their children than just do better to
be there. And that's pretty much true.>>>>
And I suppose that's where 'good' parenting comes in.
If both parents are doing a 'good' job of parenting,
then the child will always feel loved and cared for on
both sides regardless of whether the parents live
under the same roof.
<<<<One parent runs the other off because the parents
don't get along, instead of them doing their utmost to
be good people for the sake of their children.>>>>
Every situation is different. I believe that the
person who leaves is not necessarily always "run off".
I think there are many different circumstances in a
divorce situation and one cannot judge all divorces by
the one(s) they may have been involved in.
<<<<And these same people are often punishing kids for
not "being good" ("good" being defined by whatever the
parents want to make up at the time).
Alcohol abuse, gambling, fooling around--those are not
habits easy to break. But they could MAYBE wait until
the kids are grown and then indulge their nasty
habits.
Sandra>>>>
This sounds like you're talking about your personal
experience of divorce and I'm sorry it was such a
painful experience for you.
Personally, my parents divorce was not particularly
painful for me. The events leading up to it could be,
on occasion. My father was very moody and it lightened
up the whole atmosphere of my home life when he moved
out. Also, *he* became a little better at parenting
because he had to actually be involved with me (on the
weekends).
I probably won't know what Tamzin's true experience
regarding the divorce of her dad and I until she is
older and more able to analyze her feelings about it.
I know for now that she weathered it extremely well
(that's not to say that she didn't feel upset and
angry at times) and seems to be a happy and well
adjusted child. I know for certain that both of her
parents are no longer depressed and unhappy and
actually have a decent, caring friendship now (and
that's got to be a good thing for her in the long
run).
Meghan
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some kids do fine, but many ARE hurt, and I think it's
most. >>>>
I'm sure all kids are hurt to some degree, but I also
think the key thing here is weighing up which is going
to hurt the child more in the long run, divorce or
staying together (for the sake of the child).
<<<< Even if the parent is awful, the message that
comes to the children is that the mom or dad would
rather abandon their children than just do better to
be there. And that's pretty much true.>>>>
And I suppose that's where 'good' parenting comes in.
If both parents are doing a 'good' job of parenting,
then the child will always feel loved and cared for on
both sides regardless of whether the parents live
under the same roof.
<<<<One parent runs the other off because the parents
don't get along, instead of them doing their utmost to
be good people for the sake of their children.>>>>
Every situation is different. I believe that the
person who leaves is not necessarily always "run off".
I think there are many different circumstances in a
divorce situation and one cannot judge all divorces by
the one(s) they may have been involved in.
<<<<And these same people are often punishing kids for
not "being good" ("good" being defined by whatever the
parents want to make up at the time).
Alcohol abuse, gambling, fooling around--those are not
habits easy to break. But they could MAYBE wait until
the kids are grown and then indulge their nasty
habits.
Sandra>>>>
This sounds like you're talking about your personal
experience of divorce and I'm sorry it was such a
painful experience for you.
Personally, my parents divorce was not particularly
painful for me. The events leading up to it could be,
on occasion. My father was very moody and it lightened
up the whole atmosphere of my home life when he moved
out. Also, *he* became a little better at parenting
because he had to actually be involved with me (on the
weekends).
I probably won't know what Tamzin's true experience
regarding the divorce of her dad and I until she is
older and more able to analyze her feelings about it.
I know for now that she weathered it extremely well
(that's not to say that she didn't feel upset and
angry at times) and seems to be a happy and well
adjusted child. I know for certain that both of her
parents are no longer depressed and unhappy and
actually have a decent, caring friendship now (and
that's got to be a good thing for her in the long
run).
Meghan
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In a message dated 1/15/02 9:54:32 PM, moonmeghan@... writes:
<< This sounds like you're talking about your personal
experience of divorce and I'm sorry it was such a
painful experience for you. >>
My personal experience of the divorces I've seen in my life, of my friends'
parents when I was little, of my relatives, of adult friends I've known, and
almost every one involved someone unwilling to stop drinking, unwilling to
get counselling, being dishonest, or something bad and selfish and immature.
One of the most honest and straightforward divorces I know involved no
children, and the husband's discovery he was gay. Another which was
understandable (but bad for the four kids) involved the husband becoming
increasingly frustrated and destructive of stuff and scaring the mom.
I divorced my first husband because I had other interests and he was drinking
too much and I was falling in love with Keith my #2 husband (who wasn't a
husband for another six years).
It's not just my parents' marriage. It's half the people I grew up with,
nearly every uncle and aunt on both sides (two of my mom's oldest brothers
married once and for life), five La Leche League leaders who were all married
when my kids were young and all are divorced now. One couple moved away and
is not divorced--he's a minister, they're about to have twins making nine
kids.
I don't think I'm suffering from an insufficiently large set of data.
Sandra
<< This sounds like you're talking about your personal
experience of divorce and I'm sorry it was such a
painful experience for you. >>
My personal experience of the divorces I've seen in my life, of my friends'
parents when I was little, of my relatives, of adult friends I've known, and
almost every one involved someone unwilling to stop drinking, unwilling to
get counselling, being dishonest, or something bad and selfish and immature.
One of the most honest and straightforward divorces I know involved no
children, and the husband's discovery he was gay. Another which was
understandable (but bad for the four kids) involved the husband becoming
increasingly frustrated and destructive of stuff and scaring the mom.
I divorced my first husband because I had other interests and he was drinking
too much and I was falling in love with Keith my #2 husband (who wasn't a
husband for another six years).
It's not just my parents' marriage. It's half the people I grew up with,
nearly every uncle and aunt on both sides (two of my mom's oldest brothers
married once and for life), five La Leche League leaders who were all married
when my kids were young and all are divorced now. One couple moved away and
is not divorced--he's a minister, they're about to have twins making nine
kids.
I don't think I'm suffering from an insufficiently large set of data.
Sandra
Sharon Rudd
> My mom said something along those lines when KirbyMy mother, too. She lived with us off and on (months,
> was one and she was...
> something over fifty, and living with us for free.
>
> After I had had custody of her late-life "oops!" for
> two different stints
> (four+ and 13+?)
>
> But it was okay. She was just too, too nervous and
> was such a bad mom to my
> brother that it was kind of a relief. She was a
> baby-spanker.
>
> Sandra
>
years). I couldn't leave a sleeping baby in the house
and hang up laundry. I couldn't trust her at all. Who
knew WHAT she might do? So I never asked anyone to
"babysit" until the time I tested Nancy. The
repercussions would have been just too (uhmmm) much.
It was physically very difficult for a long time to
keep up with everything and monitor (every second) my
babies (mostly I just held them) and mother and Nancy.
I was young and strong then. Sleep optional. XDH
indulged his social life during this time. HE got
lots of sympathy for the MIL from Hell. He told lots
of MIL jokes.
Your post sure brings it all back! Oh yes, before she
finally shot herself she had 5 husbands and 5
divorces. 3 of them after I left her home, but all 5
before I gained legal custody of Nancy when she was
11. Sometimes mother was really pitiful...like a
golem.
Nancy has 1 husband of 22 years. I was married to XDH
for just shy of 20 yrs. 2yrs unmarried. 10 yrs and
going...DH.
SOS
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In a message dated 1/16/02 6:59:48 AM, bearspawprint@... writes:
<< Sometimes mother was really pitiful...like a
golem. >>
eeek!
yes.
They say people will drink themselves to death. They say cigarette smoking
will kill you. My mom consumes both still and regularly and is 70. There's
nothing to talk about with her anymore. She's so brain damaged she can't
remember things right and can't tell what happened the day before with any
reliability or clarity. And the stories are usually about going to a casino
and seeing someone she knew, anyway. And I'm ashamed when it's someone I
know too.
It's sad to feel that way about your own mom. I have some really good
memories from childhood, and one time I wrote her a long mother's day card
with about fifty of them all lined out, after Kirby was born. I was hoping
it would make her be a better mom to my brother. Maybe it did. For me, it
was like a big thank you and goodbye letter, because having held up the best
of our relationship for me and her to remember, I quit expecting any more
good things to come of it.
I kept a copy, and it helped make me mindful that I'm building a store of
good memories for my kids, and it's good not to cancel them back out.
We never fight or insult each other. I just do what she needs and get gone
politely.
Sandra
<< Sometimes mother was really pitiful...like a
golem. >>
eeek!
yes.
They say people will drink themselves to death. They say cigarette smoking
will kill you. My mom consumes both still and regularly and is 70. There's
nothing to talk about with her anymore. She's so brain damaged she can't
remember things right and can't tell what happened the day before with any
reliability or clarity. And the stories are usually about going to a casino
and seeing someone she knew, anyway. And I'm ashamed when it's someone I
know too.
It's sad to feel that way about your own mom. I have some really good
memories from childhood, and one time I wrote her a long mother's day card
with about fifty of them all lined out, after Kirby was born. I was hoping
it would make her be a better mom to my brother. Maybe it did. For me, it
was like a big thank you and goodbye letter, because having held up the best
of our relationship for me and her to remember, I quit expecting any more
good things to come of it.
I kept a copy, and it helped make me mindful that I'm building a store of
good memories for my kids, and it's good not to cancel them back out.
We never fight or insult each other. I just do what she needs and get gone
politely.
Sandra
meghan anderson
<<<<I don't think I'm suffering from an insufficiently
large set of data.
Sandra>>>>
It seems that you have been exposed to a large number
of 'nasty' divorces.
I can also cite a good many divorces that ended up
being the best thing for everyone involved (where all
concerned were much happier after the divorce).
I can also tell you of one particular situation where
the parents have stayed together (mainly for financial
reasons and for the kids) and their kids are some of
the most disturbed, unhappy kids I know.
I also think in many cases it takes two. In other
words, maybe it's not as simple as all one person's
fault in many circumstances (I certainly own my fair
share of blame in the break up of my marriage,
although to many it looks like it was all his fault).
I think very few people in marriage breakups are
'complete' victims.
However, my point was that there are many different
divorce situations. I don't think we can assume that
divorce is bad in every single case or that staying
together no matter what is always the best option. At
the end of the day, I don't think there can be one
single final answer to all cases of divorce. Each case
is different.
Meghan
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large set of data.
Sandra>>>>
It seems that you have been exposed to a large number
of 'nasty' divorces.
I can also cite a good many divorces that ended up
being the best thing for everyone involved (where all
concerned were much happier after the divorce).
I can also tell you of one particular situation where
the parents have stayed together (mainly for financial
reasons and for the kids) and their kids are some of
the most disturbed, unhappy kids I know.
I also think in many cases it takes two. In other
words, maybe it's not as simple as all one person's
fault in many circumstances (I certainly own my fair
share of blame in the break up of my marriage,
although to many it looks like it was all his fault).
I think very few people in marriage breakups are
'complete' victims.
However, my point was that there are many different
divorce situations. I don't think we can assume that
divorce is bad in every single case or that staying
together no matter what is always the best option. At
the end of the day, I don't think there can be one
single final answer to all cases of divorce. Each case
is different.
Meghan
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In a message dated 1/17/02 12:23:32 AM, moonmeghan@... writes:
<< At
the end of the day, I don't think there can be one
single final answer to all cases of divorce. Each case
is different. >>
I don't think I ever said anything like there was one single final answer.
Just because there's not a single answer to all doesn't mean that more
children are harmed than many adults like to think though.
A three-legged dog negates "all dogs have four legs," but it does NOT negate
"Except in unusual circumstances, dogs have four legs."
I'm up to having seen four three-legged dogs, one I knew personally. So I
have a number of samples of three-legged dogs to draw upon and one with a
front leg turned backwards (from birth injury, maybe?). The number of four
legged dogs I've seen is beyond counting.
Sandra
<< At
the end of the day, I don't think there can be one
single final answer to all cases of divorce. Each case
is different. >>
I don't think I ever said anything like there was one single final answer.
Just because there's not a single answer to all doesn't mean that more
children are harmed than many adults like to think though.
A three-legged dog negates "all dogs have four legs," but it does NOT negate
"Except in unusual circumstances, dogs have four legs."
I'm up to having seen four three-legged dogs, one I knew personally. So I
have a number of samples of three-legged dogs to draw upon and one with a
front leg turned backwards (from birth injury, maybe?). The number of four
legged dogs I've seen is beyond counting.
Sandra
meghan anderson
<<<<Just because there's not a single answer to all
doesn't mean that more children are harmed than many
adults like to think though.
Sandra>>>>
Oh, I think almost all children are harmed to some
extent by a divorce. I guess it's just which situation
is going to harm the child more, divorce or other
(every other situation that could be harmful to the
emotional or physical wellbeing of a child).
Meghan
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doesn't mean that more children are harmed than many
adults like to think though.
Sandra>>>>
Oh, I think almost all children are harmed to some
extent by a divorce. I guess it's just which situation
is going to harm the child more, divorce or other
(every other situation that could be harmful to the
emotional or physical wellbeing of a child).
Meghan
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