Shared Computer Time and Managing Individual vs. Group Needs
Ken Cooper
We have two boys, five and seven. They are both big fans of computer games,
in particular the Age of Empires series. I'm a fan too, both for my own
enjoyment, and for the unusually empowering and rich environment they offer
the boys to learn in.
When this interest began, we were pretty strict about screen time. We
haven't had broadcast TV in our house since the kids were born, and we've
limited combined viewing in the day to a couple of hours. Recently, with the
help this list and other reading, we've thawed quite a bit, and within the
last month or so we've left the use of the computer and TV to their own
judgment.
While I realize we may be in the deschooling phase of this process, we are
having a couple of issues that are difficult to live with. First, I've
noticed a deep irritation that surfaces after playing for an extended period
of time (I see this in myself, when I play, as well). This has a poisonous
effect on the household. In particular, the two of them share a computer,
and the different approaches we've tried for switching between them (one
game each, one hour each, with a timer) have been rather screechy. The games
tend to be immersive and engaging, which makes it hard to separate from
them. Also, our ds5 is not really understanding fairness and sharing yet,
nor does he understand the different rates time passes when you're playing
vs. waiting, so he's difficult to reason with.
Further, our ds5 has very little interest in anything else, which of itself
I've come to accept for various reasons, but it severely cramps the flow for
the rest of us, especially when only one adult is present. We've tried
making alternatives enticing to him, but this hasn't been successful thus
far. He's pretty intransigent.
Any thoughts on either of these?
Ken
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
in particular the Age of Empires series. I'm a fan too, both for my own
enjoyment, and for the unusually empowering and rich environment they offer
the boys to learn in.
When this interest began, we were pretty strict about screen time. We
haven't had broadcast TV in our house since the kids were born, and we've
limited combined viewing in the day to a couple of hours. Recently, with the
help this list and other reading, we've thawed quite a bit, and within the
last month or so we've left the use of the computer and TV to their own
judgment.
While I realize we may be in the deschooling phase of this process, we are
having a couple of issues that are difficult to live with. First, I've
noticed a deep irritation that surfaces after playing for an extended period
of time (I see this in myself, when I play, as well). This has a poisonous
effect on the household. In particular, the two of them share a computer,
and the different approaches we've tried for switching between them (one
game each, one hour each, with a timer) have been rather screechy. The games
tend to be immersive and engaging, which makes it hard to separate from
them. Also, our ds5 is not really understanding fairness and sharing yet,
nor does he understand the different rates time passes when you're playing
vs. waiting, so he's difficult to reason with.
Further, our ds5 has very little interest in anything else, which of itself
I've come to accept for various reasons, but it severely cramps the flow for
the rest of us, especially when only one adult is present. We've tried
making alternatives enticing to him, but this hasn't been successful thus
far. He's pretty intransigent.
Any thoughts on either of these?
Ken
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bling Williams
Ken Cooper <ken@...> wrote: We have two boys, five and seven. They are both big fans of computer games,
in particular the Age of Empires series. I'm a fan too, both for my own
enjoyment, and for the unusually empowering and rich environment they offer
the boys to learn in.
While I realize we may be in the deschooling phase of this process, we are
having a couple of issues that are difficult to live with. First, I've
noticed a deep irritation that surfaces after playing for an extended period
of time (I see this in myself, when I play, as well). This has a poisonous
effect on the household. In particular, the two of them share a computer,
and the different approaches we've tried for switching between them (one
game each, one hour each, with a timer) have been rather screechy. The games
tend to be immersive and engaging, which makes it hard to separate from
them. Also, our ds5 is not really understanding fairness and sharing yet,
nor does he understand the different rates time passes when you're playing
vs. waiting, so he's difficult to reason with.
If you can't afford 2 computers (and many can't) then you need to help the kids decide whats fair. I tried the 'play as long as you want' thing but one kid would hog the computer (often to be mean to the other 2) so we sat down and talked about it together. the 3 of them decided that for a fast paced game, turn taking every hour was reasonable but for slower games like AoE then 2-3 hours was a good time length that meant all of them could get a good play during a day. This holds for me too. I get allocated time.
Over the years its worked pretty well although there's still arguments over whether you forfeit a turn if you leave early to watch TV or somesuch but they negotiate around the rules they set themsleves.
We now have 2 computers for the 6 of us which makes it a bit easier but the eldest is saving up for one now as she wants to be on MSN 24 hours a day to chat to her friends so that was ticking off the boys.
Most kids over 5 can negotiate these things with a parents help so that everyone is happy but if arguments start then it needs looking at again. for instance, H went back to school so the 3 of them decided it was fair that when she got in at 5pm from school (and she leaves at 7am) she gets 2 hours computer time straight away cos the boys go on all day.
Of course theres still some arguing because I have 4 very strong willed children who aren't wonderful at compromise but on the whole they sort it out amongst themselves now and only call on me when negotiations have stalled.
I reckon I could now get a job with the UN ;-)
S
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
www.celyn.org
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
in particular the Age of Empires series. I'm a fan too, both for my own
enjoyment, and for the unusually empowering and rich environment they offer
the boys to learn in.
While I realize we may be in the deschooling phase of this process, we are
having a couple of issues that are difficult to live with. First, I've
noticed a deep irritation that surfaces after playing for an extended period
of time (I see this in myself, when I play, as well). This has a poisonous
effect on the household. In particular, the two of them share a computer,
and the different approaches we've tried for switching between them (one
game each, one hour each, with a timer) have been rather screechy. The games
tend to be immersive and engaging, which makes it hard to separate from
them. Also, our ds5 is not really understanding fairness and sharing yet,
nor does he understand the different rates time passes when you're playing
vs. waiting, so he's difficult to reason with.
If you can't afford 2 computers (and many can't) then you need to help the kids decide whats fair. I tried the 'play as long as you want' thing but one kid would hog the computer (often to be mean to the other 2) so we sat down and talked about it together. the 3 of them decided that for a fast paced game, turn taking every hour was reasonable but for slower games like AoE then 2-3 hours was a good time length that meant all of them could get a good play during a day. This holds for me too. I get allocated time.
Over the years its worked pretty well although there's still arguments over whether you forfeit a turn if you leave early to watch TV or somesuch but they negotiate around the rules they set themsleves.
We now have 2 computers for the 6 of us which makes it a bit easier but the eldest is saving up for one now as she wants to be on MSN 24 hours a day to chat to her friends so that was ticking off the boys.
Most kids over 5 can negotiate these things with a parents help so that everyone is happy but if arguments start then it needs looking at again. for instance, H went back to school so the 3 of them decided it was fair that when she got in at 5pm from school (and she leaves at 7am) she gets 2 hours computer time straight away cos the boys go on all day.
Of course theres still some arguing because I have 4 very strong willed children who aren't wonderful at compromise but on the whole they sort it out amongst themselves now and only call on me when negotiations have stalled.
I reckon I could now get a job with the UN ;-)
S
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
www.celyn.org
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lilith_pouia
--- In [email protected], "Ken Cooper" <ken@...> wrote:
of Empires by ages five and seven? According to dh those games are
difficult for him and he is into stategy games. My sons are four and
seven and he would love to be able to play games like that with them,
but they probably need worked up to it with simpler stuff. Any
suggestions?
Lilith
>games,
> We have two boys, five and seven. They are both big fans of computer
> in particular the Age of Empires series. I'm a fan too, both for my ownthey offer
> enjoyment, and for the unusually empowering and rich environment
> the boys to learn in.started off playing when they were younger to be able to get into Age
>
> Ken
>
> Hi Ken, my husband is wondering in amazement what games you're boys
of Empires by ages five and seven? According to dh those games are
difficult for him and he is into stategy games. My sons are four and
seven and he would love to be able to play games like that with them,
but they probably need worked up to it with simpler stuff. Any
suggestions?
Lilith
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Ken Cooper
> Hi Ken, my husband is wondering in amazement what games you're boysThey started by watching their nine year old cousin play, but quickly picked
> started off playing when they were younger to be able to get into Age
> of Empires by ages five and seven? According to dh those games are
> difficult for him and he is into stategy games. My sons are four and
> seven and he would love to be able to play games like that with them,
> but they probably need worked up to it with simpler stuff. Any
> suggestions?
up the mechanics. Strategy is a work in progress - they still play AI at the
beginner's level, so it's relatively easy. But they do some pretty darn
clever things at times, and I've learned a thing or two from them.
In addition to the usual flash games, they had played Zoo Tycoon before, but
I don't think they found that much easier. The mechanics are the hard part
for getting started.
AOE and its sequels are very well designed. I was a child guinea pig of Alan
Kay, who advocated self directed learning with computers in the early 70s.
Ever since I've been a big fan of rich empowering environments, and AOE
truly fits the bill, allowing them to take the game in many directions. My
ds7 is a designer by nature, very sensitive to conflict and tension. His use
of the game is the scenario designer, where he gets to build little worlds
that his brother sometimes plays. Ds5, who is now infamous here no doubt, is
a swashbuckler, and loves to build huge armies he can crush his opponents
with. And of course, at the beginner's level, he can.
I wouldn't recommend your dh playing with them, at least for a long while.
Too tempting to kibbitz. Better would be to let them discover the world
themselves, and offer pointers only when asked.
Ken
Bling Williams
lilith_pouia <lilith_pouia@...> wrote:
of Empires by ages five and seven? According to dh those games are
difficult for him and he is into stategy games. My sons are four and
seven and he would love to be able to play games like that with them,
but they probably need worked up to it with simpler stuff. Any
suggestions?
Lilith
He's now 10 and much better at me than strategy games. But I can beat him on multiplayer Jedi Knight ;-)
S
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
www.celyn.org
---------------------------------
Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Hi Ken, my husband is wondering in amazement what games you're boysstarted off playing when they were younger to be able to get into Age
of Empires by ages five and seven? According to dh those games are
difficult for him and he is into stategy games. My sons are four and
seven and he would love to be able to play games like that with them,
but they probably need worked up to it with simpler stuff. Any
suggestions?
Lilith
>My boys started the first Age of Empires game at 7 and 5. The 5 yo found it hard at first and would watch his brother and older sister play. He'd aso watch me play Jedi Knight and Half Life and offer advice. Through watching anf then having a go he learnt very quickly. 5 yo's are amazing in how fast they pick up stuff, much more amazing than those commercials for lame toys would have you believe.
He's now 10 and much better at me than strategy games. But I can beat him on multiplayer Jedi Knight ;-)
S
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
www.celyn.org
---------------------------------
Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]