RE: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 1800
Andrea
Joanna,
We also co-sleep, and have done the musical bed thing. The issue for you
husband, is it that he really would like some time with you, alone? Is he
feeling like he doesn't get to be with his wife? I notice that I can't get
in touch with the intimate parts of me if my son is in the room. If your
husband wants to connect on an intimate level (and have fun), is there a way
you both could leave the "family den" for some fun, say in the living room?
Just a thought. I know how hard it is for everybody's needs to be met in
this situation, and every family is different. My husband has never had a
hard time with the co-sleeping. He has had a very big hard time, though,
with me being a "mom" 24/7" and not his mate...To your benefit, remember
that we are the only species who don't den with our family...
Hi all
I haven't posted here (or anywhere) in quite a while. I need some
perspective. My kids have always slept in our room. As babies it
was something I insisted on, when I discovered the sleep benefits.
As they grew older I tried getting them to sleep in their own rooms,
with the idea of "that's how it's suppose to be", not because I
minded them in our bed. My dh has never been thrilled with the
idea. He accepted the babies, because he knew it really did help me
get more rest, but as they grew, he always made comments of them
sleeping in their own rooms. The kids always fought the idea and
always ended up in our bed sometime in the night. My dh didn't seem
to mind that. He wanted them to atleast start out in their own room
though( alone time for us was his idea) It was always a huge
struggle. Lots of time for me getting them into bed, lots of
getting out of bed, being scared and eventually they would be in our
room anyway at some point in the night. 3 years ago, our son died.
From that point on, we all slept in one room. My now 15 yo stopped
after a couple of months (she had been sleeping in her own room
willingly from about the age of 10-11).
My now 9yo son and 6yo dd don't seem to have any desire to sleep in
their own rooms. They would sleep in the same room if they did go
upstairs, so it's not a matter of being completely alone.
I have no desire for them to leave. My dh isn't home at night
usually 3 nights of the week til about 2 a.m. In the summer it's 6
nights a week. We just downsized to a queen(it was free and our
king was really bad) and the kids sleep on cushions on the floor
next to the bed. I thought this would make dh happier because he
atleast isn't crowded out of the bed anymore. But it still is
bothering him. He usually doesn't make a big deal. Just snide
comments here and there. But every once in a while he has a fit
about it in front of the kids and is mad that I'm not backing him
up. I remain calm and do see his side, but I also feel I 'm the one
that really has to make the effort and it seems futile anyway. And
it's not something I want to do. He's not willing to really go
through the process of putting them to be. He thinks they should be
sent to bed and stay there, like he did as a child (or atleast
that's what he wishes could happen). That never worked in the past,
but he doesn't want to hear logic or opinions, he just wants it to
be easy and done.
I'm thinking I should just take a stand here. Usually it blows
over, sometimes I make a little effort but end up back to our usual,
all going to sleep in my bed together, he accepts it's not happening
and we continue to all sleep in the room.
I'm thinking they will naturally want to sleep in their own rooms at
some point (like my oldest did) My 9yo seems to want to, but gets
scared being alone still. My 6 yo has no desire.
Also, my oldest went to high school and goes to sleep earlier than
everyone else. The kids rooms are upstairs and they would keep her
awake if they were up there.
I make an effort for dh and I to have "alone time" at other times
than night. Dh usually sleeps in late and we can have "alone time"
mid morning while the kids are busy doing thier own things, so I
really don't think that should be an issue with him. I'm way to
tired at night usually, anyway. (Especially if I've just spent a lot
of energy getting the kids in their own rooms.)
So am I being wrong or stubborn or lazy or a clingy mother here?
Should I put his wants over ours? How can I do that without being
resentful.
Should i ask him to accept this and realize it is temporary (though
not short term)
I would really like to let the kids choose when they are ready. I
would like them to feel completely welcome by both of us.
I think I should really take a stand here, but wanted some
perspective first.
Thanks
Joanna
We also co-sleep, and have done the musical bed thing. The issue for you
husband, is it that he really would like some time with you, alone? Is he
feeling like he doesn't get to be with his wife? I notice that I can't get
in touch with the intimate parts of me if my son is in the room. If your
husband wants to connect on an intimate level (and have fun), is there a way
you both could leave the "family den" for some fun, say in the living room?
Just a thought. I know how hard it is for everybody's needs to be met in
this situation, and every family is different. My husband has never had a
hard time with the co-sleeping. He has had a very big hard time, though,
with me being a "mom" 24/7" and not his mate...To your benefit, remember
that we are the only species who don't den with our family...
Hi all
I haven't posted here (or anywhere) in quite a while. I need some
perspective. My kids have always slept in our room. As babies it
was something I insisted on, when I discovered the sleep benefits.
As they grew older I tried getting them to sleep in their own rooms,
with the idea of "that's how it's suppose to be", not because I
minded them in our bed. My dh has never been thrilled with the
idea. He accepted the babies, because he knew it really did help me
get more rest, but as they grew, he always made comments of them
sleeping in their own rooms. The kids always fought the idea and
always ended up in our bed sometime in the night. My dh didn't seem
to mind that. He wanted them to atleast start out in their own room
though( alone time for us was his idea) It was always a huge
struggle. Lots of time for me getting them into bed, lots of
getting out of bed, being scared and eventually they would be in our
room anyway at some point in the night. 3 years ago, our son died.
From that point on, we all slept in one room. My now 15 yo stopped
after a couple of months (she had been sleeping in her own room
willingly from about the age of 10-11).
My now 9yo son and 6yo dd don't seem to have any desire to sleep in
their own rooms. They would sleep in the same room if they did go
upstairs, so it's not a matter of being completely alone.
I have no desire for them to leave. My dh isn't home at night
usually 3 nights of the week til about 2 a.m. In the summer it's 6
nights a week. We just downsized to a queen(it was free and our
king was really bad) and the kids sleep on cushions on the floor
next to the bed. I thought this would make dh happier because he
atleast isn't crowded out of the bed anymore. But it still is
bothering him. He usually doesn't make a big deal. Just snide
comments here and there. But every once in a while he has a fit
about it in front of the kids and is mad that I'm not backing him
up. I remain calm and do see his side, but I also feel I 'm the one
that really has to make the effort and it seems futile anyway. And
it's not something I want to do. He's not willing to really go
through the process of putting them to be. He thinks they should be
sent to bed and stay there, like he did as a child (or atleast
that's what he wishes could happen). That never worked in the past,
but he doesn't want to hear logic or opinions, he just wants it to
be easy and done.
I'm thinking I should just take a stand here. Usually it blows
over, sometimes I make a little effort but end up back to our usual,
all going to sleep in my bed together, he accepts it's not happening
and we continue to all sleep in the room.
I'm thinking they will naturally want to sleep in their own rooms at
some point (like my oldest did) My 9yo seems to want to, but gets
scared being alone still. My 6 yo has no desire.
Also, my oldest went to high school and goes to sleep earlier than
everyone else. The kids rooms are upstairs and they would keep her
awake if they were up there.
I make an effort for dh and I to have "alone time" at other times
than night. Dh usually sleeps in late and we can have "alone time"
mid morning while the kids are busy doing thier own things, so I
really don't think that should be an issue with him. I'm way to
tired at night usually, anyway. (Especially if I've just spent a lot
of energy getting the kids in their own rooms.)
So am I being wrong or stubborn or lazy or a clingy mother here?
Should I put his wants over ours? How can I do that without being
resentful.
Should i ask him to accept this and realize it is temporary (though
not short term)
I would really like to let the kids choose when they are ready. I
would like them to feel completely welcome by both of us.
I think I should really take a stand here, but wanted some
perspective first.
Thanks
Joanna
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 3, 2006, at 9:07 AM, Andrea wrote:
Recent western European culture doesn't get to define our species.
And I think really it was only within the last 200 years that the
idea of individual rooms for children started, I think.
Years ago, so I don't remember where, I visited a stately home in
England, somewhere south of Cambridge I think, and there was a bed
from the 16th century (give or take a century; I wish I really
remembered) that was wide, wide--wider than two king-sized beds, and
the docents said they thought it was for a whole family. There was a
painting in the same period (and so thinking of the painting, I'm
thinking 17th century) of a family with half a dozen kids and a dog
or two, I think.
Probably I have some details wrong, but I remember the big, big bed.
From what I know of human sleeping arrangements, it's not always
family together, but it's not commonly single humans in separate
"dens" or huts or caves. That's not safe or sensible. In some
cultures (historically? currently too maybe?) women and children
slept together in a communal kind of place, I think.
I hope some anthropology students somewhere are gathering all that
info up.
Sandra
> To your benefit, remember----------------------------------------------------------------
> that we are the only species who don't den with our family...
Recent western European culture doesn't get to define our species.
And I think really it was only within the last 200 years that the
idea of individual rooms for children started, I think.
Years ago, so I don't remember where, I visited a stately home in
England, somewhere south of Cambridge I think, and there was a bed
from the 16th century (give or take a century; I wish I really
remembered) that was wide, wide--wider than two king-sized beds, and
the docents said they thought it was for a whole family. There was a
painting in the same period (and so thinking of the painting, I'm
thinking 17th century) of a family with half a dozen kids and a dog
or two, I think.
Probably I have some details wrong, but I remember the big, big bed.
From what I know of human sleeping arrangements, it's not always
family together, but it's not commonly single humans in separate
"dens" or huts or caves. That's not safe or sensible. In some
cultures (historically? currently too maybe?) women and children
slept together in a communal kind of place, I think.
I hope some anthropology students somewhere are gathering all that
info up.
Sandra
Schuyler Waynforth
From Meredith Small's book Our Babies, Ourselves:
"In almost all cultures around the globe today, babies sleep with an
adult and children sleep with parent or other silings. It is only in
industrialized Western societies such as North America and some
countries in Europe that sleep has become a prvite affair; the
comparison of the latter pattern with that of other groups highlights
one of the major ways in which the West stands out from the rest of
humanity in the treatment of children. In one study of 186
nonindustial societies, children sleep in the same bed as their
parents in 46 percent of the nonindustrial cultures, and in a separate
bed but in the same room in an additional 21 percent. In other words
in 67 percent of the cultures around the world, children sleep in the
company of others. More significant in none of those 186 cultures do
babies sleep in a separate place before they are at least on year old.
In another survey of 172 societies, all infants in all cultures do
some co-sleeping at night, even if only for a few hours. The United
States consistently stands out as the only society in wihich babies
are routinely placed in their own beds and in their own rooms; in one
survey of a hundred societies, only parents in the United States
maintained separate quarters for their babies, and in another study of
twelve societies, all parents but Americans slept with their babies
until weaning."
Schuyler
"In almost all cultures around the globe today, babies sleep with an
adult and children sleep with parent or other silings. It is only in
industrialized Western societies such as North America and some
countries in Europe that sleep has become a prvite affair; the
comparison of the latter pattern with that of other groups highlights
one of the major ways in which the West stands out from the rest of
humanity in the treatment of children. In one study of 186
nonindustial societies, children sleep in the same bed as their
parents in 46 percent of the nonindustrial cultures, and in a separate
bed but in the same room in an additional 21 percent. In other words
in 67 percent of the cultures around the world, children sleep in the
company of others. More significant in none of those 186 cultures do
babies sleep in a separate place before they are at least on year old.
In another survey of 172 societies, all infants in all cultures do
some co-sleeping at night, even if only for a few hours. The United
States consistently stands out as the only society in wihich babies
are routinely placed in their own beds and in their own rooms; in one
survey of a hundred societies, only parents in the United States
maintained separate quarters for their babies, and in another study of
twelve societies, all parents but Americans slept with their babies
until weaning."
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2006, at 9:07 AM, Andrea wrote:
>
> > To your benefit, remember
> > that we are the only species who don't den with our family...
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Recent western European culture doesn't get to define our species.
>
> And I think really it was only within the last 200 years that the
> idea of individual rooms for children started, I think.
>
> Years ago, so I don't remember where, I visited a stately home in
> England, somewhere south of Cambridge I think, and there was a bed
> from the 16th century (give or take a century; I wish I really
> remembered) that was wide, wide--wider than two king-sized beds, and
> the docents said they thought it was for a whole family. There was a
> painting in the same period (and so thinking of the painting, I'm
> thinking 17th century) of a family with half a dozen kids and a dog
> or two, I think.
>
> Probably I have some details wrong, but I remember the big, big bed.
>
> From what I know of human sleeping arrangements, it's not always
> family together, but it's not commonly single humans in separate
> "dens" or huts or caves. That's not safe or sensible. In some
> cultures (historically? currently too maybe?) women and children
> slept together in a communal kind of place, I think.
>
> I hope some anthropology students somewhere are gathering all that
> info up.
>
> Sandra
>
Schuyler Waynforth
Two typos silings = siblings and the babies who aren't sleeping alone
are under one year, not on year.
Schuyler
are under one year, not on year.
Schuyler