Diane

For us, "educational" resounds with propaganda--an agenda, usually unstated.

I'm really sorry I'm not in supporting y'all on the "other" list. I just can't
take those ladies and their posts are automatically deleted. But's it's getting
to remind me of the positive discipline board I was on that spent all its time
discussing how to punish the kids. :-( But redefine it as "positive" so it's OK.

:-) Diane

PSoroosh@... wrote:

> In a message dated 1/9/2002 5:09:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> > I'm over at the unschooling.com e-mail list trying to explain why the
> > terms "educational" would best be dropped from the vocabulary in
> > order to fully embrace the unschool mindset.
> >
>
> I'm WITH you on that one Ren.
>
> But -- interestingly, among some of my good friends (all unschooling types),
> we find ourselves using that word in a very different way. "The tour was
> okay, but a little too 'educational,'" or "Well, we tried that but it was too
> 'educational' for us." "I found these scripts of plays the kids might enjoy
> putting on -- they're pretty cool even if they're a little overly
> 'educational'.
>
> So - it is a sort of codeword, I think, for stuff that is just too
> ....something..? Too fake? Too superficial? Too contrived. That's it, I
> think.
>
> If someone said, "Oh, yeah, we went to that museum. It was very educational,"
> I wouldn't know if that was a good thing or not. I'd just like to hear, "Oh,
> yeah, we had a great time at the museum and there was cool stuff there and I
> learned a whole lot about it." For so many of us, "educational" carries the
> implication that someone shoved something down some poor kids' throats <G>.
>
> And of course there is the argument that you're probably making, Ren, that to
> say one thing IS educational implies that other things are not. From an
> unschooling point of view that is sort of a nonsense position.
>
> --Pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/02 6:41:12 PM, PSoroosh@... writes:

<< And of course there is the argument that you're probably making, Ren, that
to
say one thing IS educational implies that other things are not. From an
unschooling point of view that is sort of a nonsense position. >>

Even museums.

"That museum was very educational..." as opposed to the other museums which
ONLY had stuff to look at? ? It's a big insult to other museums, or is
intended to be, I suppose, or is thoughtlessly thrown off.

Sandra

Nancy Wooton

on 1/9/02 9:59 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 1/9/02 6:41:12 PM, PSoroosh@... writes:
>
> << And of course there is the argument that you're probably making, Ren, that
> to
> say one thing IS educational implies that other things are not. From an
> unschooling point of view that is sort of a nonsense position. >>
>
> Even museums.
>
> "That museum was very educational..." as opposed to the other museums which
> ONLY had stuff to look at? ? It's a big insult to other museums, or is
> intended to be, I suppose, or is thoughtlessly thrown off.

A quote on the subject, brought to you by the Word A Day list:

Education: That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish
their lack of understanding. -Ambrose Bierce, writer (1842-1914)

Nancy

Tia Leschke

>For us, "educational" resounds with propaganda--an agenda, usually unstated.
>
>I'm really sorry I'm not in supporting y'all on the "other" list. I just can't
>take those ladies and their posts are automatically deleted.

Big surprise this morning when Bridget agreed completely about getting rid
of the word "educational".
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

meghan anderson

<<<<In a message dated 1/9/02 6:41:12 PM,
PSoroosh@... writes:

<< And of course there is the argument that you're
probably making,
Ren, that to say one thing IS educational implies that
other things are not. From an unschooling point of
view that is sort of a nonsense position. >>

Even museums.

"That museum was very educational..." as opposed to
the other museums which ONLY had stuff to look at? ?
It's a big insult to other museums, or is intended to
be, I suppose, or is thoughtlessly thrown off.

Sandra>>>>

I agree that the word educational is bandied about all
over the place and basically doesn't have any meaning
for me. It's like if it has the word 'educational' in
it, then people think it must be good. But I don't get
the connection between saying something is educational
means that everything else isn't. It's different if
someone is actually comparing different museums (for
example) and they say that a particular one is
educational. Then that implies, to me, that the others
are not. But if, in passing, someone says a certain
museum is educational. I don't take it to mean that
they believe that every other museum is not.
If I were to use that logic, if someone said to me,
'your friend Richard is very intelligent', then I
would have to assume that the person who commented
thought the rest of my friends were not.
My point is that I think you can express an opinion
about something without negating everything else in
that category. Does that make sense? I'm having a hard
time expressing myself this evening for some reason
<g>.

Meghan

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[email protected]

<< It's different if
someone is actually comparing different museums (for
example) and they say that a particular one is
educational. Then that implies, to me, that the others
are not. >>

For people to become unschoolers to the bone, they need to be comparing
everything all the time until they come to a place where they see the
learning potential in every single moment. And so for them using the word
"educational" about ANYTHING is a comparison to other things. If some things
are and some things are not, then you can't say "everything is."

<<But if, in passing, someone says a certain
museum is educational. I don't take it to mean that
they believe that every other museum is not.>>

Depends on the tone of voice and context.

But clearly they are saying it is more educational that some other museum(s)
they have in mind or imagination.

<<If I were to use that logic, if someone said to me,
'your friend Richard is very intelligent', then I
would have to assume that the person who commented
thought the rest of my friends were not.>>

Depending on your other friends, and the tone of voice your friend uses, he
might mean that very thing. Some people do have the tone of surprise when
they way "Wow! You're really nice!" and the underlying message is "nicer
than I thought you'd be" or "nicer than I'd heard you were."

<<My point is that I think you can express an opinion
about something without negating everything else in
that category. Does that make sense?>>

Generally, but I think in a discussion of unschooling and the term
"educational" it doesn't apply.

Sandra

meghan anderson

<<<<Generally, but I think in a discussion of
unschooling and the term
"educational" it doesn't apply.

Sandra>>>>

Ahhh, I didn't get that it was in the context of a
discussion about unschooling. I thought we were
talking in more 'general' terms (as in people that
don't have a clue <g>).

Meghan

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