Hmmmm, "RAISING and I GRADUATED"
The Millers
> Message: 5I remind myself that I was a child that was raised....
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 06:36:45 -0800 (PST)
> From: Marianne Pfister <allowinglife@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: opening up to a bigger world
>
++++++++++++++++++++++
I have two questions that I am posting to this list because I think I will
get some wonderful and diverse input. The phrase above prompted me to
finally do so. Also, my friend today said to me "ask one of your unschool
list, they dissect like you do". I know, interesting statement also. haha
Question #1
For some reason, the word "raising" has been giving me some moments to
ponder. Everytime I say something like, "I'm raising my child, etc.", I feel
like I am talking about a cow or something. You know, "I'm raising my cow."
It just feels awkward to me and I don't know why. It never did before.
Maybe it is this RU Journey that has me thinking about everything I had come
to see as so-called normal.
Question #2
I read in a post on one of my local groups where someone said, "I graduated
2 of them". That really got me thinking too. It sounded so odd to me. As
if the children themselves had nothing to do with anything up to that point.
I would love some input on these two questions. I don't know why they are
sticking in my head.
Thanks so much. I rarely post but am enjoying most of the topics of
discussion. We are two years into the RU journey. Our daughter just turned
8. My husband and I both wish we could have started at the beginning.
The Millers in NM
Crystal, David, and Sorscha
Nancy Wooton
On Dec 31, 2005, at 4:30 PM, The Millers wrote:
English expressions: we "rear" children, but "raise" livestock. (At
least, Miss Manners says so ;-)
proprietor of a school? In California, one of our options is to have
our own private school in our home (it's usually the best option for
unschooling). We might say something like that, since from our legal
point of view, Parent As School does set some point in time for the
ending of legally required school attendance for the student.
>I think it has less to do with unschooling than with traditional
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 06:36:45 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Marianne Pfister <allowinglife@...>
>> Subject: Re: Re: opening up to a bigger world
>>
> I remind myself that I was a child that was raised....
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> I have two questions that I am posting to this list because I think I
> will
> get some wonderful and diverse input. The phrase above prompted me to
> finally do so. Also, my friend today said to me "ask one of your
> unschool
> list, they dissect like you do". I know, interesting statement also.
> haha
>
> Question #1
> For some reason, the word "raising" has been giving me some moments to
> ponder. Everytime I say something like, "I'm raising my child, etc.",
> I feel
> like I am talking about a cow or something. You know, "I'm raising my
> cow."
> It just feels awkward to me and I don't know why. It never did before.
> Maybe it is this RU Journey that has me thinking about everything I
> had come
> to see as so-called normal.
>
English expressions: we "rear" children, but "raise" livestock. (At
least, Miss Manners says so ;-)
> Question #2Could it be that the speaker is thinking of themselves as the
> I read in a post on one of my local groups where someone said, "I
> graduated
> 2 of them". That really got me thinking too. It sounded so odd to
> me. As
> if the children themselves had nothing to do with anything up to that
> point.
>
proprietor of a school? In California, one of our options is to have
our own private school in our home (it's usually the best option for
unschooling). We might say something like that, since from our legal
point of view, Parent As School does set some point in time for the
ending of legally required school attendance for the student.
> I would love some input on these two questions. I don't know why theyNancy in CA
> are
> sticking in my head.
>
> Thanks so much. I rarely post but am enjoying most of the topics of
> discussion. We are two years into the RU journey. Our daughter just
> turned
> 8. My husband and I both wish we could have started at the beginning.
>
> The Millers in NM
> Crystal, David, and Sorscha
>
Sandra Dodd
On Dec 31, 2005, at 5:30 PM, The Millers wrote:
I have an essay called "How to Raise a Respected Child" and though it
didn't bother me when I wrote it, it has bothered me a little bit
more everytime I see it. On the other hand, I was trying to get a
message to people who did feel strongly that they were creating their
children somehow, as potters make something from cold, wet clay.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
I'm trying to think about when we do use "raise" (and I know the
whole "rear" argument but English speakers of my acquaintance don't
use that term unless they're being snooty and stilted and honestly
I'd rather raise someone up than "rear" them, which sounds a little
scatological). Keith and I have discussed with one another "that's
just how they were raised" or "Well... you raised them to talk
back" (not said in a bad way, Keith to me). I said "We didn't
raise them to live at home," once when we were talking about how
sparkly Kirby is when he's away from home and how dull and boring he
is sometimes when it's just family. So we use it, but not in a
mainstream way, and not without knowing we've done it. Not
thoughtlessly, I think I mean.
We don't talk about grades or graduating. When people talk about
Kirby we say "He's 19, he's working at Dion's, he's teaching
karate..." stuff like that. Had he gone to high school he probably
would have graduated last year, but there are kids his age (boys
mostly) who failed a year (first grade mostly) who are still in high
school at his age (poor guys).
I agree with you about "raised" and "graduated" being problematical.
Sandra
> For some reason, the word "raising" has been giving me some moments to------------------------------------------------
> ponder. Everytime I say something like, "I'm raising my child,
> etc.", I feel
> like I am talking about a cow or something.
I have an essay called "How to Raise a Respected Child" and though it
didn't bother me when I wrote it, it has bothered me a little bit
more everytime I see it. On the other hand, I was trying to get a
message to people who did feel strongly that they were creating their
children somehow, as potters make something from cold, wet clay.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
I'm trying to think about when we do use "raise" (and I know the
whole "rear" argument but English speakers of my acquaintance don't
use that term unless they're being snooty and stilted and honestly
I'd rather raise someone up than "rear" them, which sounds a little
scatological). Keith and I have discussed with one another "that's
just how they were raised" or "Well... you raised them to talk
back" (not said in a bad way, Keith to me). I said "We didn't
raise them to live at home," once when we were talking about how
sparkly Kirby is when he's away from home and how dull and boring he
is sometimes when it's just family. So we use it, but not in a
mainstream way, and not without knowing we've done it. Not
thoughtlessly, I think I mean.
We don't talk about grades or graduating. When people talk about
Kirby we say "He's 19, he's working at Dion's, he's teaching
karate..." stuff like that. Had he gone to high school he probably
would have graduated last year, but there are kids his age (boys
mostly) who failed a year (first grade mostly) who are still in high
school at his age (poor guys).
I agree with you about "raised" and "graduated" being problematical.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/31/2005 9:08:51 PM Central Standard Time,
willowsfortress@... writes:
Question #2
I read in a post on one of my local groups where someone said, "I graduated
2 of them". That really got me thinking too. It sounded so odd to me. As
if the children themselves had nothing to do with anything up to that point.
~~~
The only reason an unschooler would need to use the term "graduated" would
be to fulfill some legal requirement or to cross a language barrier.
In some states, it's irrelevant whether a kid is a high school graduate or
not, but in others there are definite advantages--driver's licenses, working
in the daytime, etc. So, I have said to people "just graduate them early" so
they could get out of those kinds of legal requirements.
I "graduated" my middle son when we no longer lived apart, so he could be a
free agent and not need parental approval, etc. It's a formality and had
helped grease some of his wheels.
That's the only purpose I can see for unschoolers.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
willowsfortress@... writes:
Question #2
I read in a post on one of my local groups where someone said, "I graduated
2 of them". That really got me thinking too. It sounded so odd to me. As
if the children themselves had nothing to do with anything up to that point.
~~~
The only reason an unschooler would need to use the term "graduated" would
be to fulfill some legal requirement or to cross a language barrier.
In some states, it's irrelevant whether a kid is a high school graduate or
not, but in others there are definite advantages--driver's licenses, working
in the daytime, etc. So, I have said to people "just graduate them early" so
they could get out of those kinds of legal requirements.
I "graduated" my middle son when we no longer lived apart, so he could be a
free agent and not need parental approval, etc. It's a formality and had
helped grease some of his wheels.
That's the only purpose I can see for unschoolers.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 1, 2006, at 3:32 PM, tuckervill2@... wrote:
say "he's grown"? Because if he was under 18, he still needed
parental approval for some things, and if he was over 18, why would he?
Sandra
> I "graduated" my middle son when we no longer lived apart, so heI think you meant "together" (not apart), but why couldn't you just
> could be a
> free agent and not need parental approval, etc. It's a formality
> and had
> helped grease some of his wheels.
say "he's grown"? Because if he was under 18, he still needed
parental approval for some things, and if he was over 18, why would he?
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jan 1, 2006, at 2:32 PM, tuckervill2@... wrote:
school graduates, no matter how young they are. Not needing a work
permit means no restrictions on work hours. And they can attend
community college without any restrictions, if they are hs graduates,
even if they are under eighteen.
We just have to say: "Taa-daa! You are now a high school graduate."
There are no legal requirements about what it takes for someone to
"graduate." Private schools set their own requirements. So - I define
"ready to graduate" as kids being at a point in their lives where
they are wanting to do things that require or would be eased by high
school graduation. I confess that the reasoning is just a bit
circular <G> - but it makes sense to me that when a kid is ready and
wanting to do things that require high school graduation, then THAT,
in and of itself, indicates that they are ready to "be graduated."
My now-21 yo, who is very into ceramics, wanted to work full time at
a clay and glaze company when she was 16. An option would have been
to go to the local public school and try to get them to give her a
work permit, but that comes with restrictions that are very specific
about how many hours per day and per week a kid can work when school
is in session and not in session and so on. Some employers get very
worried about all this and it can limit opportunities for the kid.
Roya wanted to work a regular 40 hours per week full-time job and
that would not have been possible with a work permit. As a "high
school graduate," there was no problem - they could treat her just
like any other employee.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The only reason an unschooler would need to use the termHere in California, kids don't need work permits, if they are high
> "graduated" would
> be to fulfill some legal requirement or to cross a language barrier.
school graduates, no matter how young they are. Not needing a work
permit means no restrictions on work hours. And they can attend
community college without any restrictions, if they are hs graduates,
even if they are under eighteen.
We just have to say: "Taa-daa! You are now a high school graduate."
There are no legal requirements about what it takes for someone to
"graduate." Private schools set their own requirements. So - I define
"ready to graduate" as kids being at a point in their lives where
they are wanting to do things that require or would be eased by high
school graduation. I confess that the reasoning is just a bit
circular <G> - but it makes sense to me that when a kid is ready and
wanting to do things that require high school graduation, then THAT,
in and of itself, indicates that they are ready to "be graduated."
My now-21 yo, who is very into ceramics, wanted to work full time at
a clay and glaze company when she was 16. An option would have been
to go to the local public school and try to get them to give her a
work permit, but that comes with restrictions that are very specific
about how many hours per day and per week a kid can work when school
is in session and not in session and so on. Some employers get very
worried about all this and it can limit opportunities for the kid.
Roya wanted to work a regular 40 hours per week full-time job and
that would not have been possible with a work permit. As a "high
school graduate," there was no problem - they could treat her just
like any other employee.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/1/2006 4:33:29 PM Central Standard Time,
tuckervill2@... writes:
I "graduated" my middle son when we no longer lived apart,
~~~
oops, I meant "we no longer lived together".
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tuckervill2@... writes:
I "graduated" my middle son when we no longer lived apart,
~~~
oops, I meant "we no longer lived together".
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/1/2006 4:40:40 PM Central Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
I think you meant "together" (not apart), but why couldn't you just
say "he's grown"? Because if he was under 18, he still needed
parental approval for some things, and if he was over 18, why would he?
~~~
Because the Coast Guard still wanted a diploma.
And some of those things were before he was 18.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
I think you meant "together" (not apart), but why couldn't you just
say "he's grown"? Because if he was under 18, he still needed
parental approval for some things, and if he was over 18, why would he?
~~~
Because the Coast Guard still wanted a diploma.
And some of those things were before he was 18.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/1/2006 5:05:53 PM Central Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
And they can attend
community college without any restrictions, if they are hs graduates,
even if they are under eighteen.
~~~~
Oh yeah, that was another reason we had to use language usually reserved for
the system. Jon took a class at community college when he was 14. We had to
state "he passed 8th grade", whatever that was. Same concept.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
And they can attend
community college without any restrictions, if they are hs graduates,
even if they are under eighteen.
~~~~
Oh yeah, that was another reason we had to use language usually reserved for
the system. Jon took a class at community college when he was 14. We had to
state "he passed 8th grade", whatever that was. Same concept.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 1, 2006, at 4:19 PM, tuckervill2@... wrote:
Well that's a good reason. And bypassing a work permit is a good
reason.
I'm hesitant, personally, to mess with pretend diplomas. I would
have to think a long time and know more about what it takes to get a
diploma from an unaccredited school in this state to feel comfortable
about saying "graduated," because even though I know it doesn't mean
much, it seems to mean SOMEthing. I know what the accredited
schools do and require, and I know how they fudge the requirements
and all too.
Having a reason to say "Oh! Enough of saying 'homeschooled' now;
we'll say 'graduated'" makes sense, but doing it just because a kid
turns 18 isn't as much reason, it seems. I don't know...
Sandra
> Because the Coast Guard still wanted a diploma.=============
Well that's a good reason. And bypassing a work permit is a good
reason.
I'm hesitant, personally, to mess with pretend diplomas. I would
have to think a long time and know more about what it takes to get a
diploma from an unaccredited school in this state to feel comfortable
about saying "graduated," because even though I know it doesn't mean
much, it seems to mean SOMEthing. I know what the accredited
schools do and require, and I know how they fudge the requirements
and all too.
Having a reason to say "Oh! Enough of saying 'homeschooled' now;
we'll say 'graduated'" makes sense, but doing it just because a kid
turns 18 isn't as much reason, it seems. I don't know...
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
Although this is mostly California information, it could help people
in other states know what the possibilities are so you can look for
similar information in your own state.
in other states know what the possibilities are so you can look for
similar information in your own state.
On Jan 1, 2006, at 5:33 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> I'm hesitant, personally, to mess with pretend diplomas.
Here in California, the diploma issued by any private or public
school is as "pretend" as any other. The state doesn't accredit
anybody - not even public schools - and the diploma from any school
really says NOTHING except that the student has met the graduation
requirements of THAT school - accredited or not. The state doesn't
issue the diplomas, nor approve them - nothing. It does say in the
state education code what the minimum requirements are that the
public schools have to set for graduation requirements - but the
schools can and do add to those minimum requirements. The state has
NOTHING to say about what the requirements are for graduation from
private schools.
Schools here can apply for accreditation from any of a number of
difference accreditation agencies - they are ALL private agencies,
not government-related. Lots of private schools are not accredited by
anybody. Lots of others are accredited by very specialized
accreditation organizations such as the NLSA - National Lutheran
School Accreditation.
WASC - the Western Association of Schools and Colleges is the
organization that accredits most public schools here. There are other
large regional accreditation agencies in other parts of the country.
In some states, like New Mexico, I believe, the state, itself,
accredits schools (based on recommendations from various
accreditation agencies or commissions) - including non-public schools
that seek accreditation.
The benefit of accreditation is that one accredited school will
normally accept all high school credits from another accredited
school. Students transferring from a non-accredited high school to an
accredited high school MAY find that the new school will not accept
any or all of their credits.
That's really the only aspect of accreditation that matters, as far
as I have ever been able to tell. Other than that a school that gets
turned down for accreditation typically gets a bad reputation - bad
press.
I'm sure there are probably exceptions somewhere, but colleges don't
typically care about accreditation, because they look directly at
what the student has really done - what courses he/she has taken -
they don't rely on the student being a "high school graduate" to
assume any particular body of study. The UC system, in California,
requires that high schools get their courses pre-approved by the UC
system, in order for students applying as freshmen to a UC to count
their high school courses toward meeting the entrance requirements.
This is not the same as "accreditation" although people occasionally
mistakenly use that terminology for it. It does make it more
difficult for students in small private schools (such as
homeschoolers) and definitely harder for unschoolers who don't "take
courses" anyway - to be accepted as freshmen into a University of
California. There are ways around it - high SAT scores, for example,
and the most common way is to take classes at a community college and
transfer in, rather than applying as a freshman. (Note to
Californians: the UC System means University of California - UCLA, UC
Berkeley, UC Riverside, UC Irvine, UC San Diego, UC Santa Cruz, UC
Davis, etc. There is a whole other state university system - Cal
State University Long Beach, CSU San Diego, CSU Fullerton, San Jose
State, San Francisco State, Fresno State, etc. The latter system does
NOT require the pre-approved high school courses like the UC system
does.)
-pam
> I would
> have to think a long time and know more about what it takes to get a
> diploma from an unaccredited school in this state to feel comfortable
> about saying "graduated," because even though I know it doesn't mean
> much, it seems to mean SOMEthing. I know what the accredited
> schools do and require, and I know how they fudge the requirements
> and all too.
>
> Having a reason to say "Oh! Enough of saying 'homeschooled' now;
> we'll say 'graduated'" makes sense, but doing it just because a kid
> turns 18 isn't as much reason, it seems. I don't know...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 1, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
Correct. That's about the whole of it.
And admissions officers of the universities requesting high school
diplomas may choose an accredited school over a non-accredited one,
if all other requirements are equal.
Non-accredited schools (such as some of the private religious
schools) fail to be up to state-accreditation par by such things as
not having certified teachers, not offering a sufficient range of
science classes or not using textbooks the state considers
sufficient. Some of the religious institutions take pride in that,
though, when they're aiming toward the creationist, conservative edge
of the plate.
I suppose under my own circumstances, given my own history, it would
seem that if I made a diploma I would be putting my kids in the same
category as the worst lame little church schools. So for me it's
personal aversion and prejudice, perhaps. <g> And for me to say
that my child has received the full course of instruction seems
dishonest, as there was no full course of instruction. They're not
"through," though they are at 18 beyond my say so, and could go to
the community college anyway.
If one needed "a diploma" I would write a letter explaining that he
never went to school and that though I have the word processing and
calligraphy skills to produce an impressive-appearing diploma, I've
chosen not to do that.
But that's me, not a recommendation for everyone else.
Sandra
> The benefit of accreditation is that one accredited school will===============
> normally accept all high school credits from another accredited
> school. Students transferring from a non-accredited high school to an
> accredited high school MAY find that the new school will not accept
> any or all of their credits.
Correct. That's about the whole of it.
And admissions officers of the universities requesting high school
diplomas may choose an accredited school over a non-accredited one,
if all other requirements are equal.
Non-accredited schools (such as some of the private religious
schools) fail to be up to state-accreditation par by such things as
not having certified teachers, not offering a sufficient range of
science classes or not using textbooks the state considers
sufficient. Some of the religious institutions take pride in that,
though, when they're aiming toward the creationist, conservative edge
of the plate.
I suppose under my own circumstances, given my own history, it would
seem that if I made a diploma I would be putting my kids in the same
category as the worst lame little church schools. So for me it's
personal aversion and prejudice, perhaps. <g> And for me to say
that my child has received the full course of instruction seems
dishonest, as there was no full course of instruction. They're not
"through," though they are at 18 beyond my say so, and could go to
the community college anyway.
If one needed "a diploma" I would write a letter explaining that he
never went to school and that though I have the word processing and
calligraphy skills to produce an impressive-appearing diploma, I've
chosen not to do that.
But that's me, not a recommendation for everyone else.
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jan 2, 2006, at 5:38 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
community college for years, but it always requires a LOT of effort
to get a bunch of different signatures and they get the latest
registration priority and so on.
So this semester - that starts in January - she's 18 and shouldn't
have to do all that. We went into the admissions and records office
to point that out to them and the girl at the counter said, "But if
she's still in high school she still has to do it even if she's 18."
Well - first of all this is not true. The state education code
specifically says that anybody 18 or up can go to the community
college - no conditions at all. But I didn't argue with her, I just
said, "She's not in high school. Then the girl said she had to show
her diploma. I said, "You know - I could go home and make a diploma
and bring it back." The girl said, "No, it has to have the special
seal on it." I said, "I can put a seal on it." She said, "Well it
won't count if you just make one." I said, "How are you going to know
I made it?" She said, "You just told me." At that point I just asked
to talk to her supervisor, who DID know the law and went into
Roxana's computer file and changed her status - no problem. I'd
actually known all along that i could talk to the next person and
she'd know but I was fascinated by the responses of the girl at the
counter - at how adamantly she stuck to her position in spite of the
illogic of it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> If one needed "a diploma" I would write a letter explaining that heRoxana turned 18 last September. She's been taking classes at the
> never went to school and that though I have the word processing and
> calligraphy skills to produce an impressive-appearing diploma, I've
> chosen not to do that.
>
> But that's me, not a recommendation for everyone else.
community college for years, but it always requires a LOT of effort
to get a bunch of different signatures and they get the latest
registration priority and so on.
So this semester - that starts in January - she's 18 and shouldn't
have to do all that. We went into the admissions and records office
to point that out to them and the girl at the counter said, "But if
she's still in high school she still has to do it even if she's 18."
Well - first of all this is not true. The state education code
specifically says that anybody 18 or up can go to the community
college - no conditions at all. But I didn't argue with her, I just
said, "She's not in high school. Then the girl said she had to show
her diploma. I said, "You know - I could go home and make a diploma
and bring it back." The girl said, "No, it has to have the special
seal on it." I said, "I can put a seal on it." She said, "Well it
won't count if you just make one." I said, "How are you going to know
I made it?" She said, "You just told me." At that point I just asked
to talk to her supervisor, who DID know the law and went into
Roxana's computer file and changed her status - no problem. I'd
actually known all along that i could talk to the next person and
she'd know but I was fascinated by the responses of the girl at the
counter - at how adamantly she stuck to her position in spite of the
illogic of it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Millers
I guess my philosophical question was more of the,
Not why someone would say "graduated" (ex: legalities, state, etc.) but why
does one not say something like, "they graduated themselves" or "they
graduated".
I think the parent saying, "I graduated 2 of them" puts the work, talents,
life experience, etc., in their (the parents) palms and not the true person
who accomplished the tasks. Does graduating really have anything to do with
the parent? Yea, that's my question for pondering.
I think I'm making sense? haha
Crystal in NM
+++++++++++++
Not why someone would say "graduated" (ex: legalities, state, etc.) but why
does one not say something like, "they graduated themselves" or "they
graduated".
I think the parent saying, "I graduated 2 of them" puts the work, talents,
life experience, etc., in their (the parents) palms and not the true person
who accomplished the tasks. Does graduating really have anything to do with
the parent? Yea, that's my question for pondering.
I think I'm making sense? haha
Crystal in NM
+++++++++++++
> Message: 5graduated
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:32:06 EST
> From: tuckervill2@...
> Subject: Re: Hmmmm, "RAISING and I GRADUATED"
>
>
> In a message dated 12/31/2005 9:08:51 PM Central Standard Time,
> willowsfortress@... writes:
>
> Question #2
> I read in a post on one of my local groups where someone said, "I
> 2 of them". That really got me thinking too. It sounded so odd to me.As
> if the children themselves had nothing to do with anything up to thatpoint.
>or
> ~~~
>
> The only reason an unschooler would need to use the term "graduated" would
> be to fulfill some legal requirement or to cross a language barrier.
>
> In some states, it's irrelevant whether a kid is a high school graduate
> not, but in others there are definite advantages--driver's licenses,working
> in the daytime, etc. So, I have said to people "just graduate themearly" so
> they could get out of those kinds of legal requirements.a
>
> I "graduated" my middle son when we no longer lived apart, so he could be
> free agent and not need parental approval, etc. It's a formality and had
> helped grease some of his wheels.
>
> That's the only purpose I can see for unschoolers.
>
> Karen
>
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jan 2, 2006, at 12:38 PM, The Millers wrote:
it, so I guess I can say, "I graduated Roxana," meaning i gave her a
diploma, right?
It is commonly-used terminology in schools. My sister just said it to
me the other day, talking about the little private school her kids
attended - "The school is so little that it only graduated 11
students last year." But --- it does sound funny to use it as
unschoolers, but the whole idea of "graduating from unschooling" is
pretty hard to make sense of. I just consider it to mean the kid is
ready to do something that requires a high school diploma. But, as I
said before, that is because I live in a state in which the meaning
of graduation from a private school is not defined by the state.
There are so MANY different kinds of private schools that offer all
KINDS of educational experiences and the requirements for
"graduation" from those are each very different from the others.
For a really cool and interesting private school that specializes in
"graduating" people, young and old, who are ready to move on and do
something that requires a diploma, see the "Beach High School" website:
<http://members.cruzio.com/~beachhi/graduation.html>.
Go all the way to the bottom of that page and read the section titled:
"Minimal graduation requirements--Why?"
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Does graduating really have anything to do withIf one of my kids needs a diploma, it'll be me making it and signing
> the parent? Yea, that's my question for pondering.
it, so I guess I can say, "I graduated Roxana," meaning i gave her a
diploma, right?
It is commonly-used terminology in schools. My sister just said it to
me the other day, talking about the little private school her kids
attended - "The school is so little that it only graduated 11
students last year." But --- it does sound funny to use it as
unschoolers, but the whole idea of "graduating from unschooling" is
pretty hard to make sense of. I just consider it to mean the kid is
ready to do something that requires a high school diploma. But, as I
said before, that is because I live in a state in which the meaning
of graduation from a private school is not defined by the state.
There are so MANY different kinds of private schools that offer all
KINDS of educational experiences and the requirements for
"graduation" from those are each very different from the others.
For a really cool and interesting private school that specializes in
"graduating" people, young and old, who are ready to move on and do
something that requires a diploma, see the "Beach High School" website:
<http://members.cruzio.com/~beachhi/graduation.html>.
Go all the way to the bottom of that page and read the section titled:
"Minimal graduation requirements--Why?"
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/1/2006 7:34:05 PM Central Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
I'm hesitant, personally, to mess with pretend diplomas
~~~
I don't happen to think our diploma is "pretend". He met all the
requirements to be considered graduated. Not by any school's standard, but our own.
Everyone has to come to terms with these things in some way or another...the
way we bump up against the system in our attempts to live as though school
doesn't exist. I gave my son a diploma. He graduated. He and I signed the
diploma. It has gold lettering and filigree and it's beautiful and he liked
it. It wasn't pretend.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
I'm hesitant, personally, to mess with pretend diplomas
~~~
I don't happen to think our diploma is "pretend". He met all the
requirements to be considered graduated. Not by any school's standard, but our own.
Everyone has to come to terms with these things in some way or another...the
way we bump up against the system in our attempts to live as though school
doesn't exist. I gave my son a diploma. He graduated. He and I signed the
diploma. It has gold lettering and filigree and it's beautiful and he liked
it. It wasn't pretend.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 2, 2006, at 1:38 PM, The Millers wrote:
So a parent who "graduated six kids" did a big job, and the kids were
byproduct maybe?
It's like all the work of teaching, when a homeschooling parent (more
than unschoolers) sighs about how much work it is to teach all those
kids. The kids are apparently not doing anything (except
occasionally making the parent's hard job even harder).
(Maybe I'm missing your point to, but some of these phrases point in
all kinds of directions. <g>
Sandra
> -=-I think the parent saying, "I graduated 2 of them" puts theAh.
> work, talents,
> life experience, etc., in their (the parents) palms and not the
> true person
> who accomplished the tasks. Does graduating really have anything
> to do with
> the parent? Yea, that's my question for pondering.-=-
So a parent who "graduated six kids" did a big job, and the kids were
byproduct maybe?
It's like all the work of teaching, when a homeschooling parent (more
than unschoolers) sighs about how much work it is to teach all those
kids. The kids are apparently not doing anything (except
occasionally making the parent's hard job even harder).
(Maybe I'm missing your point to, but some of these phrases point in
all kinds of directions. <g>
Sandra
Nancy Wooton
On Jan 2, 2006, at 1:59 PM, Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
Collegiate:
1a. to grant an academic degree or diploma to 1b. to be graduated
from
A student doesn't simply graduate, he or she graduates *from* an
institution. If that institution happens to be a homeschool and the
parent is the head of that school, that head has granted an academic
diploma and therefore "graduated" the student.
Clear as mud? ;-)
Nancy
> On Jan 2, 2006, at 12:38 PM, The Millers wrote:It's the first definition of "graduate" - the verb - in Webster's
>
>> Does graduating really have anything to do with
>> the parent? Yea, that's my question for pondering.
>
> If one of my kids needs a diploma, it'll be me making it and signing
> it, so I guess I can say, "I graduated Roxana," meaning i gave her a
> diploma, right?
>
> It is commonly-used terminology in schools.
Collegiate:
1a. to grant an academic degree or diploma to 1b. to be graduated
from
A student doesn't simply graduate, he or she graduates *from* an
institution. If that institution happens to be a homeschool and the
parent is the head of that school, that head has granted an academic
diploma and therefore "graduated" the student.
Clear as mud? ;-)
Nancy