[AlwaysLearning] Misunderstanding Unschooling?...
Nanci Kuykendall
Hi all. I have not posted in a while. Lately I have
been really involved in both local/in person and
online support and activities for parents with special
needs kids, particularly those homeschooling special
needs kids.
I've found an interesting and somewhat disturbing
phenomenon to be pretty common among these groups.
There seem to be a good number of rabid self described
"unschoolers" out there who are not only scaring peole
away and turning people off to unschooling, but also
in my opinion giving us unschoolers, and unschooling
in general, a bad name. It's possible that we're
talking about the zeal of the "newly converted" with
these people (mostly women) who in their fervor go
somewhat overboard. But I think there is also an
element of misunderstanding exactly what unschooling
is. I thought I would run this idea by this group and
see what your thoughts and experiences are.
The overwhelmingly prevalent attitude I've run into
among other homeschoolers is to mistakenly believe
that unschoolers "can't" use books, textbooks,
curriculums, classes, and so forth. That's not all
that surprising, that other homeschoolers don't really
"get" unschooling. But what has surprised me is how
many people who call themselves unschoolers don't seem
to really get it either. It seems that some folks
just trade one type of controls for another, not to
mention the fact that they seem to be rather
sanctimonious and overbearing towards others who don't
unschool.
Now, it's my understanding of unschooling that
anything you (you as the learner) want, need, or
choose freely to use for your own "education," or just
to experience, is just dandy. I usually explain
unschooling to others as not a homeschooling style,
but rather a lifestyle and a basic different view of
how learning happens and of relationships within a
family, and having a lot to do with trusting and
respecting children as people. I realize this may
just be related to certain types of personalities, but
does it seem to you folks that there is a general
misunderstanding of what unschooling is among
unschoolers?
Nanci K.
been really involved in both local/in person and
online support and activities for parents with special
needs kids, particularly those homeschooling special
needs kids.
I've found an interesting and somewhat disturbing
phenomenon to be pretty common among these groups.
There seem to be a good number of rabid self described
"unschoolers" out there who are not only scaring peole
away and turning people off to unschooling, but also
in my opinion giving us unschoolers, and unschooling
in general, a bad name. It's possible that we're
talking about the zeal of the "newly converted" with
these people (mostly women) who in their fervor go
somewhat overboard. But I think there is also an
element of misunderstanding exactly what unschooling
is. I thought I would run this idea by this group and
see what your thoughts and experiences are.
The overwhelmingly prevalent attitude I've run into
among other homeschoolers is to mistakenly believe
that unschoolers "can't" use books, textbooks,
curriculums, classes, and so forth. That's not all
that surprising, that other homeschoolers don't really
"get" unschooling. But what has surprised me is how
many people who call themselves unschoolers don't seem
to really get it either. It seems that some folks
just trade one type of controls for another, not to
mention the fact that they seem to be rather
sanctimonious and overbearing towards others who don't
unschool.
Now, it's my understanding of unschooling that
anything you (you as the learner) want, need, or
choose freely to use for your own "education," or just
to experience, is just dandy. I usually explain
unschooling to others as not a homeschooling style,
but rather a lifestyle and a basic different view of
how learning happens and of relationships within a
family, and having a lot to do with trusting and
respecting children as people. I realize this may
just be related to certain types of personalities, but
does it seem to you folks that there is a general
misunderstanding of what unschooling is among
unschoolers?
Nanci K.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/8/05 2:44:28 PM, aisliin@... writes:
If you define "unschoolers" one way, it can't be the other.
If all those who "are unschoolers" (among unschoolers) ARE unschoolers,
then. . .
Could you rephrase the question? <g>
-=-
Now, it's my understanding of unschooling that
anything you (you as the learner) want, need, or
choose freely to use for your own "education," or just
to experience, is just dandy.-=-
Unless that thing is some seriously oppressive schooling. Because once a
person submits to the authority and curriculum of another, the unschooling has
dissipated. Once a person is admitted to the Swiss boarding school, that's
not going to be in the unschooling circle in anyone's Venn diagram.
-=-The overwhelmingly prevalent attitude I've run into
among other homeschoolers is to mistakenly believe
that unschoolers "can't" use books, textbooks,
curriculums, classes, and so forth. -=-
Under what circumstances do you think an unschooler would use a curriculum?
Or what do you mean by "use"? Because I've looked at some, checklist style,
but I didn't "USE" them as they were probably intended to be "used."
All these words you're using... they have these meanings. <g>
-=- It seems that some folks
just trade one type of controls for another,...-=-
Yeah, I've noticed that.
Some people become teachers because of the power aspect of it (in part, at
least), and some moms seem to homeschool because they want that same sort of
power.
-=-. . . not to mention the fact that they seem to be rather sanctimonious
and overbearing towards others who don't unschool.-=-
I try to get around that myself by staying well away from those who don't
unschool, because the alternately sadden me and piss me off. And when they some
to me, it seems too often to be to get some kind of blessing or stamp of
approval on some dumbass thing they want to do, and they want me (and probably
half a dozen or a hundred others) to say "Good idea!"
It seems like yesterday (I think it was Sunday) that someone wrote to try
to get me to agree that she could unschool even though the worked fulltime at
least until the child was schoolage, because she had great daycare options, and
she had a strong work ethic (meaning, I took it, that I was a slouch to stay
home and might not understand "work ethic").
Oh yeah... didn't mention she didn't have any children, but thought she might
possibly be one week pregnant.
When I suggested she might wait and see how her child handled being with
others before deciding she got all pissed off.
Lots of people don't understand lots of things.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I realize this mayThat's an interesting question.
> just be related to certain types of personalities, but
> does it seem to you folks that there is a general
> misunderstanding of what unschooling is among
> unschoolers?
>
If you define "unschoolers" one way, it can't be the other.
If all those who "are unschoolers" (among unschoolers) ARE unschoolers,
then. . .
Could you rephrase the question? <g>
-=-
Now, it's my understanding of unschooling that
anything you (you as the learner) want, need, or
choose freely to use for your own "education," or just
to experience, is just dandy.-=-
Unless that thing is some seriously oppressive schooling. Because once a
person submits to the authority and curriculum of another, the unschooling has
dissipated. Once a person is admitted to the Swiss boarding school, that's
not going to be in the unschooling circle in anyone's Venn diagram.
-=-The overwhelmingly prevalent attitude I've run into
among other homeschoolers is to mistakenly believe
that unschoolers "can't" use books, textbooks,
curriculums, classes, and so forth. -=-
Under what circumstances do you think an unschooler would use a curriculum?
Or what do you mean by "use"? Because I've looked at some, checklist style,
but I didn't "USE" them as they were probably intended to be "used."
All these words you're using... they have these meanings. <g>
-=- It seems that some folks
just trade one type of controls for another,...-=-
Yeah, I've noticed that.
Some people become teachers because of the power aspect of it (in part, at
least), and some moms seem to homeschool because they want that same sort of
power.
-=-. . . not to mention the fact that they seem to be rather sanctimonious
and overbearing towards others who don't unschool.-=-
I try to get around that myself by staying well away from those who don't
unschool, because the alternately sadden me and piss me off. And when they some
to me, it seems too often to be to get some kind of blessing or stamp of
approval on some dumbass thing they want to do, and they want me (and probably
half a dozen or a hundred others) to say "Good idea!"
It seems like yesterday (I think it was Sunday) that someone wrote to try
to get me to agree that she could unschool even though the worked fulltime at
least until the child was schoolage, because she had great daycare options, and
she had a strong work ethic (meaning, I took it, that I was a slouch to stay
home and might not understand "work ethic").
Oh yeah... didn't mention she didn't have any children, but thought she might
possibly be one week pregnant.
When I suggested she might wait and see how her child handled being with
others before deciding she got all pissed off.
Lots of people don't understand lots of things.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nanci K.
> If you define "unschoolers" one way, it can't be the other.I don't understand what you're saying/asking, so I'm not sure how to
> If all those who "are unschoolers" (among unschoolers) ARE
>unschoolers, then. . .
>
> Could you rephrase the question? <g>
rephrase myself, but I'll try. Obviously not everyone who says they
are an unschooler is really an unschooler. Unschooling does
actually have perameters and a definition, it has boundaries of what
it is and what it is not. Merely saying "I am an unschooler" does
not then make you one. If that were so, lists like this would be
superfluous wouldn't they? I certainly have known more than one
person who said they were unschoolers who were not, who were total
control freaks in really bizarre ways and so forth.
>> Now, it's my understanding of unschooling thatTrue, I was thinking more from the non-coerced standpoint, as in why
>> anything you (you as the learner) want, need, or
>> choose freely to use for your own "education," or just
>> to experience, is just dandy.-=-
>
> Unless that thing is some seriously oppressive schooling.
>Because once a person submits to the authority and curriculum of
>another, the unschooling has dissipated.
would a person freely choose to enter into an opressive setting?
But I suppose there are people who would do that, for various
reasons: The comfort of familiarity/the known evil, fear of
autonomy, lack of self confidence, and so on. It doesn't really
count I think if they are going in "undercover" in order to study
the setting in an 'expose' sort of way. I know there are
unschoolers who have chosen to try out school. That doesn't mean
they are not unschoolers, because they are still there by choice,
unlike all the other kids.
> Under what circumstances do you think an unschooler would use aHmmm...well if you have a goal you want to pursue for your own
>curriculum?
reasons and that goal requires following a set of standards or
fulfilling a set of goals, such as attaining training or
certification in a certain trade or skill or profession. As far as
younger children using curriculum, I could see a curriculum being a
tool, used in various parts, maybe as an idea starter, or a safety
net for someone who's deschooling (like a teen) so that they don't
feel so unsupported during that process, or used while in a school
or class setting they have chosen to be in, or in any number of
other ways. I know your kids Sandra have participated on occassion
in class type things (that summer police academy for one) and I'm
sure there was a certain "curriculum" of sorts as far as what/when
and so forth they were supposed to be doing, meeting preset goals
and so on.
>Because I've looked at some, checklist style, but I didn't "USE"I suppose it only matters how you use a tool if you want someone's
>them as they were probably intended to be "used."
approval of how you are using it. If you are only using it for
yourself, for whatever reasons you find it usefull or interesting or
whatever, which is how an unschooler would appraoch such things I
would think, than it doesn't matter how it was "intended to be used"
does it? I myself have never used any sort of curriculum but I
wouldn't think an unschooler would be "forbidden" (by some
unschooling ghestapo authority??) to use them. Ceratinly if you
choose to participate in a school or class setting you have chosen
to abide by their curriculum as well in order to participate.
> All these words you're using... they have these meanings. <g>Damned pesky things.
>.....some moms seem to homeschool because they want that same sortYeah I've seen that too much myself. This West coasty self
>of power.
righteousness thing. It's not religiously based but is sactimonious
and "holier-than though" none the less, or maybe the phrase would
be "More intelligent than though" :-P I usually call it "Crunchier
than though" because it comes along (usually around here) with very
high flown and controlling ideas about whatever their current this
week idea of a healthy diet is. But there are different variations
on that theme certainly.
> I try to get around that myself by staying well away from thoseIt's difficult to limit your social pool like that when you have
>who don't unschool, because the alternately sadden me and piss me
>off.
multiple challenges, like living very rurally, have special needs
children, being pagan, being low income. If you get too picky about
who you spend any time with, you end up alone all the time, and so
do your kids. Still, I try to gravitate towards tolerant minds if I
can't find many like minds. We have to gravitate towards tolerant
minds with special needs kids anyhow, because the inflexible and
intolerant are just not possible to be around.
Nanci K.
Gold Standard
Hi Nanci,
Could you give some examples of what you are talking about? You seem to have
some strong opinions about a generalized group of people, and I don't have
much success in knowing how to respond to that. Could you give an example of
something that happened that bothered you?
Thanks,
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Nanci Kuykendall
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Misunderstanding Unschooling?...
Hi all. I have not posted in a while. Lately I have
been really involved in both local/in person and
online support and activities for parents with special
needs kids, particularly those homeschooling special
needs kids.
I've found an interesting and somewhat disturbing
phenomenon to be pretty common among these groups.
There seem to be a good number of rabid self described
"unschoolers" out there who are not only scaring peole
away and turning people off to unschooling, but also
in my opinion giving us unschoolers, and unschooling
in general, a bad name. It's possible that we're
talking about the zeal of the "newly converted" with
these people (mostly women) who in their fervor go
somewhat overboard. But I think there is also an
element of misunderstanding exactly what unschooling
is. I thought I would run this idea by this group and
see what your thoughts and experiences are.
The overwhelmingly prevalent attitude I've run into
among other homeschoolers is to mistakenly believe
that unschoolers "can't" use books, textbooks,
curriculums, classes, and so forth. That's not all
that surprising, that other homeschoolers don't really
"get" unschooling. But what has surprised me is how
many people who call themselves unschoolers don't seem
to really get it either. It seems that some folks
just trade one type of controls for another, not to
mention the fact that they seem to be rather
sanctimonious and overbearing towards others who don't
unschool.
Now, it's my understanding of unschooling that
anything you (you as the learner) want, need, or
choose freely to use for your own "education," or just
to experience, is just dandy. I usually explain
unschooling to others as not a homeschooling style,
but rather a lifestyle and a basic different view of
how learning happens and of relationships within a
family, and having a lot to do with trusting and
respecting children as people. I realize this may
just be related to certain types of personalities, but
does it seem to you folks that there is a general
misunderstanding of what unschooling is among
unschoolers?
Nanci K.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Could you give some examples of what you are talking about? You seem to have
some strong opinions about a generalized group of people, and I don't have
much success in knowing how to respond to that. Could you give an example of
something that happened that bothered you?
Thanks,
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Nanci Kuykendall
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Misunderstanding Unschooling?...
Hi all. I have not posted in a while. Lately I have
been really involved in both local/in person and
online support and activities for parents with special
needs kids, particularly those homeschooling special
needs kids.
I've found an interesting and somewhat disturbing
phenomenon to be pretty common among these groups.
There seem to be a good number of rabid self described
"unschoolers" out there who are not only scaring peole
away and turning people off to unschooling, but also
in my opinion giving us unschoolers, and unschooling
in general, a bad name. It's possible that we're
talking about the zeal of the "newly converted" with
these people (mostly women) who in their fervor go
somewhat overboard. But I think there is also an
element of misunderstanding exactly what unschooling
is. I thought I would run this idea by this group and
see what your thoughts and experiences are.
The overwhelmingly prevalent attitude I've run into
among other homeschoolers is to mistakenly believe
that unschoolers "can't" use books, textbooks,
curriculums, classes, and so forth. That's not all
that surprising, that other homeschoolers don't really
"get" unschooling. But what has surprised me is how
many people who call themselves unschoolers don't seem
to really get it either. It seems that some folks
just trade one type of controls for another, not to
mention the fact that they seem to be rather
sanctimonious and overbearing towards others who don't
unschool.
Now, it's my understanding of unschooling that
anything you (you as the learner) want, need, or
choose freely to use for your own "education," or just
to experience, is just dandy. I usually explain
unschooling to others as not a homeschooling style,
but rather a lifestyle and a basic different view of
how learning happens and of relationships within a
family, and having a lot to do with trusting and
respecting children as people. I realize this may
just be related to certain types of personalities, but
does it seem to you folks that there is a general
misunderstanding of what unschooling is among
unschoolers?
Nanci K.
Yahoo! Groups Links
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/8/05 9:36:51 PM, aisliin@... writes:
wouldn't have been an unschooler. She would've been an 8th grader in an
Albuquerque public school.
She would've been there by choice and could've come home when she wanted to,
but until the time she withdrew from school, she would be "a school kid."
-=- I know your kids Sandra have participated on occassion
in class type things (that summer police academy for one) and I'm
sure there was a certain "curriculum" of sorts as far as what/when
and so forth they were supposed to be doing, meeting preset goals
and so on.-=-
But in that case, I didn't use a curriculum, and Marty didn't use a
curriculum. The police academy used a curriculum. They weren't unschoolers.
-=-Hmmm...well if you have a goal you want to pursue for your own
reasons and that goal requires following a set of standards or
fulfilling a set of goals, such as attaining training or
certification in a certain trade or skill or profession.-=-
That's not natural learning. That's plain old goal-oriented study. Yes,
sometimes unschoolers indulge in that, to complete a project, to get a
certificate, boyscout rank, whatever. But too much of that would crowd out
unschooling.
-=-As far as
younger children using curriculum, I could see a curriculum being a
tool, used in various parts, maybe as an idea starter, or a safety
net for someone who's deschooling (like a teen) so that they don't
feel so unsupported during that process,-=-
But that's not "using a curriculum" in the way the curriculum is meant to be
used.
-=-I suppose it only matters how you use a tool if you want someone's
approval of how you are using it.-=-
When you suggest that using a curriculum doesn't negate unschooling, people
will assume you mean using a curriculum as its authors intended. If we were
talking about hand sewing and I said using a sewing machine is okay for hand
sewing, and you balked, and I said "I only used the sewing machine to prop my
tapestry frame up against"...
Clarity requires looking at the words and their meanings.
Sandra: -=- > If you define "unschoolers" one way, it can't be the other.
to
rephrase myself, but I'll try.-=-
Which gestapo will declare those who don't understand "it" not to be
unschoolers?
-=-Obviously not everyone who says they
are an unschooler is really an unschooler.-=-
It's the "really" that needs to be qualified. Each individual's definition
will vary.
-=- Unschooling does actually have perameters and a definition, it has
boundaries of what
it is and what it is not. -=-
I think so, but if someone else doesn't agree with my definition and
parameters, where's the court of appeals?
-=-Merely saying "I am an unschooler" does not then make you one. -=-
Not one that YOU accept. Probably not one that *I* accept as an unschooler
in my own unschooling universe. But there are others out there who will coo
and say "you're SUCH a good unSCHOOler!" and then they'll feel good.
-=-If that were so, lists like this would be superfluous wouldn't they? -=-
Superfluous suggests there's some number of lists after which there are too
many. There are hundreds of unschooling lists, and maybe a dozen good ones. <
g> Four or five REALLY good ones, by my count (which is just my count and
won't hold up in that court of appeals heretofore mentioned, unless maybe
Kelly's the judge).
This list will quit existing at some point. Until then, its purpose is to
give people a place to exchange difficult ideas and to hone their thoughts.
It's a forum for learning more about unschooling by examining passing thoughts
and ideas and incidents.
-=- I certainly have known more than one
person who said they were unschoolers who were not, who were total
control freaks in really bizarre ways and so forth.-=-
I've known more than one who said "unschooler" and they weren't by MY
standards and definitions. Their standards were lower and their definitions were
fuzzier, it seemed. But it's not about me or them. It's about kids. My kids
are doing well. They're happy and whole, generous and funny. So what I do
is share what I did at my house with my kids to "get these results," at the
same time allowing for the possibility that some of it is genetics and luck.
Still, examining what helps and hurts if a person wants to create a learning
and living nest in which children's growth thrives is a worthy hobby/pursuit,
I think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I know there areHad Holly gone to school this year as she seriously considered doing, she
> unschoolers who have chosen to try out school. That doesn't mean
> they are not unschoolers, because they are still there by choice,
> unlike all the other kids.
>
wouldn't have been an unschooler. She would've been an 8th grader in an
Albuquerque public school.
She would've been there by choice and could've come home when she wanted to,
but until the time she withdrew from school, she would be "a school kid."
-=- I know your kids Sandra have participated on occassion
in class type things (that summer police academy for one) and I'm
sure there was a certain "curriculum" of sorts as far as what/when
and so forth they were supposed to be doing, meeting preset goals
and so on.-=-
But in that case, I didn't use a curriculum, and Marty didn't use a
curriculum. The police academy used a curriculum. They weren't unschoolers.
-=-Hmmm...well if you have a goal you want to pursue for your own
reasons and that goal requires following a set of standards or
fulfilling a set of goals, such as attaining training or
certification in a certain trade or skill or profession.-=-
That's not natural learning. That's plain old goal-oriented study. Yes,
sometimes unschoolers indulge in that, to complete a project, to get a
certificate, boyscout rank, whatever. But too much of that would crowd out
unschooling.
-=-As far as
younger children using curriculum, I could see a curriculum being a
tool, used in various parts, maybe as an idea starter, or a safety
net for someone who's deschooling (like a teen) so that they don't
feel so unsupported during that process,-=-
But that's not "using a curriculum" in the way the curriculum is meant to be
used.
-=-I suppose it only matters how you use a tool if you want someone's
approval of how you are using it.-=-
When you suggest that using a curriculum doesn't negate unschooling, people
will assume you mean using a curriculum as its authors intended. If we were
talking about hand sewing and I said using a sewing machine is okay for hand
sewing, and you balked, and I said "I only used the sewing machine to prop my
tapestry frame up against"...
Clarity requires looking at the words and their meanings.
Sandra: -=- > If you define "unschoolers" one way, it can't be the other.
> If all those who "are unschoolers" (among unschoolers) ARENancy: -=-I don't understand what you're saying/asking, so I'm not sure how
>unschoolers, then. . .
>
> Could you rephrase the question? <g>
to
rephrase myself, but I'll try.-=-
Which gestapo will declare those who don't understand "it" not to be
unschoolers?
-=-Obviously not everyone who says they
are an unschooler is really an unschooler.-=-
It's the "really" that needs to be qualified. Each individual's definition
will vary.
-=- Unschooling does actually have perameters and a definition, it has
boundaries of what
it is and what it is not. -=-
I think so, but if someone else doesn't agree with my definition and
parameters, where's the court of appeals?
-=-Merely saying "I am an unschooler" does not then make you one. -=-
Not one that YOU accept. Probably not one that *I* accept as an unschooler
in my own unschooling universe. But there are others out there who will coo
and say "you're SUCH a good unSCHOOler!" and then they'll feel good.
-=-If that were so, lists like this would be superfluous wouldn't they? -=-
Superfluous suggests there's some number of lists after which there are too
many. There are hundreds of unschooling lists, and maybe a dozen good ones. <
g> Four or five REALLY good ones, by my count (which is just my count and
won't hold up in that court of appeals heretofore mentioned, unless maybe
Kelly's the judge).
This list will quit existing at some point. Until then, its purpose is to
give people a place to exchange difficult ideas and to hone their thoughts.
It's a forum for learning more about unschooling by examining passing thoughts
and ideas and incidents.
-=- I certainly have known more than one
person who said they were unschoolers who were not, who were total
control freaks in really bizarre ways and so forth.-=-
I've known more than one who said "unschooler" and they weren't by MY
standards and definitions. Their standards were lower and their definitions were
fuzzier, it seemed. But it's not about me or them. It's about kids. My kids
are doing well. They're happy and whole, generous and funny. So what I do
is share what I did at my house with my kids to "get these results," at the
same time allowing for the possibility that some of it is genetics and luck.
Still, examining what helps and hurts if a person wants to create a learning
and living nest in which children's growth thrives is a worthy hobby/pursuit,
I think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anastasia Hall
As a "newly converted" (also zealous and fervent) mom myself, I would appreciate if you could
elaborate on how others are giving unschooling a bad name and going overboard, in your opinion. I
wouldn't like to be one of these people. I never tell anyone that I'm an unschooler, but an
eclectic homeschooler, because I am trying to get a better grasp on unschooling while deschooling
myself. And even when I tell other homeschoolers that we're relaxed right now because we're
trying to undo the bad things that public school has done to the kids, they look at me like I'm
just lazy or crazy. So after the first few judgemental vibes I got, I prefer not to talk to
others about what we're doing or not doing at home. (And I'm annoyed when I meet a homeschooler
for the first time and they ask "What do you use?" [for curriculum], when I don't. I have all
kinds of books - from curriculum to novels to easy readers up to college text, and maps and
puzzles and games and videos and DVDs and toys, and musical instruments and art supplies and a
kitchen full of ingredients. The kids are free to explore any of them. The conversation stops
short and the person doesn't have anything to say. Then I'm just snubbed.) The kids are
starting to blossom after two months of being at home during school hours, and I'm doing my
research on all different methods of learning, so it isn't their concern, I suppose. But maybe
I'm a parent that, in their opinion, is giving homeschoolers a bad name for not following a
purchased curriculum. But, for learning purposes, I would like to know what not to do or say to
so I don't go overboard or offend any "true" unschoolers.
Anastasia
There seem to be a good number of rabid self described
"unschoolers" out there who are not only scaring peole
away and turning people off to unschooling, but also
in my opinion giving us unschoolers, and unschooling
in general, a bad name. It's possible that we're
talking about the zeal of the "newly converted" with
these people (mostly women) who in their fervor go
somewhat overboard. But I think there is also an
element of misunderstanding exactly what unschooling
is. I thought I would run this idea by this group and
see what your thoughts and experiences are.
--- Nanci Kuykendall <aisliin@...> wrote:
elaborate on how others are giving unschooling a bad name and going overboard, in your opinion. I
wouldn't like to be one of these people. I never tell anyone that I'm an unschooler, but an
eclectic homeschooler, because I am trying to get a better grasp on unschooling while deschooling
myself. And even when I tell other homeschoolers that we're relaxed right now because we're
trying to undo the bad things that public school has done to the kids, they look at me like I'm
just lazy or crazy. So after the first few judgemental vibes I got, I prefer not to talk to
others about what we're doing or not doing at home. (And I'm annoyed when I meet a homeschooler
for the first time and they ask "What do you use?" [for curriculum], when I don't. I have all
kinds of books - from curriculum to novels to easy readers up to college text, and maps and
puzzles and games and videos and DVDs and toys, and musical instruments and art supplies and a
kitchen full of ingredients. The kids are free to explore any of them. The conversation stops
short and the person doesn't have anything to say. Then I'm just snubbed.) The kids are
starting to blossom after two months of being at home during school hours, and I'm doing my
research on all different methods of learning, so it isn't their concern, I suppose. But maybe
I'm a parent that, in their opinion, is giving homeschoolers a bad name for not following a
purchased curriculum. But, for learning purposes, I would like to know what not to do or say to
so I don't go overboard or offend any "true" unschoolers.
Anastasia
There seem to be a good number of rabid self described
"unschoolers" out there who are not only scaring peole
away and turning people off to unschooling, but also
in my opinion giving us unschoolers, and unschooling
in general, a bad name. It's possible that we're
talking about the zeal of the "newly converted" with
these people (mostly women) who in their fervor go
somewhat overboard. But I think there is also an
element of misunderstanding exactly what unschooling
is. I thought I would run this idea by this group and
see what your thoughts and experiences are.
--- Nanci Kuykendall <aisliin@...> wrote:
Gold Standard
>>I would appreciate if you couldoverboard, in your opinion.<<
>>elaborate on how others are giving unschooling a bad name and going
I know this question wasn't for me, but I just wanted to say that we are ALL
on our own learning journeys, and I have seen a gambit of unschoolers, and
each will probably provide a variance of what that means. I think the
important things are to be honest...to keep an open mind and heart...to be
willing to make changes, be flexible, and be humble...and to live in the
moment with your children. But those are my parameters.
Personalities of unschooling parents are as diverse as any other
cross-section of people. Some people seem stern, or are very organized, or
are quiet and aloof. Any one of those traits may turn off another
unschooling parent and make them think they "aren't doing it right".
But really, is it for us to judge? We can look at things and decide that it
certainly wouldn't work for us, but we really don't know the deal for them.
Maybe they are in a VASTLY different and better place than they were a year
before. And maybe their interpretation of unschooling got them there.
I wouldn't worry about upsetting unschoolers or giving unschooling a bad
name. Just be yourself! People will freely give you ideas about changes you
can make (as you've seen :o), hopefully in a spirit of kindness and
understanding.
Thanks,
Jacki
[email protected]
> I have seen a gambit of unschoolers,the gamut
>
Sorry; one of those things...
"I have seen the gamut" means all kinds from one end to the other.
"The gambit" means a tricky move.
I don't think anyone has seen unschoolers make a risky, tricky move.
Unless the whole of unschooling seems a risky, tricky move. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On Nov 9, 2005, at 7:26 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
Isn't a gambit more specific than merely tricky or risky? Doesn't it
mean to sacrifice a piece for greater advantage, particularly in the
opening of a chess game? (I'm not much of a chess player, but I do
love dictionaries ;-) We sacrifice school for greater advantage in
learning.
"A gambit of unschoolers" reminds me of "a murder of crows" or "a
parliament of owls." It could be the new way of referring to us as a
group -- though it might be misunderstood ;-)))
Nancy
No one means all he says, and yet very few say all they mean, for words
are slippery and thought is viscous.
-Henry Brooks Adams, historian (1838-1918)
>I was going to reply to this, too <g>
>
>> I have seen a gambit of unschoolers,
>>
>
> the gamut
>
> Sorry; one of those things...
>
> "I have seen the gamut" means all kinds from one end to the other.
>
> "The gambit" means a tricky move.
> I don't think anyone has seen unschoolers make a risky, tricky move.
>
> Unless the whole of unschooling seems a risky, tricky move. <g>
>
Isn't a gambit more specific than merely tricky or risky? Doesn't it
mean to sacrifice a piece for greater advantage, particularly in the
opening of a chess game? (I'm not much of a chess player, but I do
love dictionaries ;-) We sacrifice school for greater advantage in
learning.
"A gambit of unschoolers" reminds me of "a murder of crows" or "a
parliament of owls." It could be the new way of referring to us as a
group -- though it might be misunderstood ;-)))
Nancy
No one means all he says, and yet very few say all they mean, for words
are slippery and thought is viscous.
-Henry Brooks Adams, historian (1838-1918)
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 9, 2005, at 5:11 AM, Anastasia Hall wrote:
she means. There are people who unschool (don't use a curriculum for
their homeschooling and don't force lessons on their kids) who
otherwise are EXTREMELY controlling. They NEVER would dream of having
a tv in their house and would ask that their cotton-only wearing
child not be allowed to play video games or watch tv if they were
visiting YOUR house. They don't eat ANY sugar - but probably eat
honey. They are vegetarians and one mom I saw just freaked out when
she realized her little 5 year old had taken a piece of pepperoni
pizza and EATEN it, at a potluck. (In fact, they often can't eat at
potlucks because they have so many food constraints.) When I say,
"freaked out," I mean she screamed and grabbed him and put her
fingers in his mouth to try to get any remains OUT. Some of these
parents become enamored with the idea of a late reader and they keep
books AWAY from their kids and don't support reading - they're
actually proud of having late-reading kids. Often they push the
Waldorfy kinds of activities like weaving and sewing - and their kids
aren't allowed to play with plastic, just wood and cloth toys. Oh,
and of course NO playing guns or other weapons - not even pretending
by pointing a finger! These are more what you might call "natural
child" proponents - and their kids are going to be "natural
children" (by their parent's definition) whether they like it or not!
<G>
And some of these people are very wonderful and nice and enjoyable to
be around, of COURSE, but the rest of us can feel very JUDGED, too,
around them (when our kids start talking about having watched every
episode of "Roseanne" 5 times, for example, and want to have a
lengthy conversation about which Becky was better <G>), because their
kids are so "fine-tuned" and seemingly perfect - I mean, nonorganic
food has never passed through THEIR lips! They're PURE!
Now that I'm older and my kids are older, I no longer feel "judged"
or even uncomfortable about all this stuff - and, Nanci this might
help you when you're faced with it, what I now feel is the STRONG
sense of how much fear these people live in all the time - always
afraid that their kids might be contaminated through exposure to one
thing or another - like tv or pepperoni.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> As a "newly converted" (also zealous and fervent) mom myself, II'm not the person who wrote that stuff, but I think I can guess what
> would appreciate if you could
> elaborate on how others are giving unschooling a bad name and going
> overboard, in your opinion.
she means. There are people who unschool (don't use a curriculum for
their homeschooling and don't force lessons on their kids) who
otherwise are EXTREMELY controlling. They NEVER would dream of having
a tv in their house and would ask that their cotton-only wearing
child not be allowed to play video games or watch tv if they were
visiting YOUR house. They don't eat ANY sugar - but probably eat
honey. They are vegetarians and one mom I saw just freaked out when
she realized her little 5 year old had taken a piece of pepperoni
pizza and EATEN it, at a potluck. (In fact, they often can't eat at
potlucks because they have so many food constraints.) When I say,
"freaked out," I mean she screamed and grabbed him and put her
fingers in his mouth to try to get any remains OUT. Some of these
parents become enamored with the idea of a late reader and they keep
books AWAY from their kids and don't support reading - they're
actually proud of having late-reading kids. Often they push the
Waldorfy kinds of activities like weaving and sewing - and their kids
aren't allowed to play with plastic, just wood and cloth toys. Oh,
and of course NO playing guns or other weapons - not even pretending
by pointing a finger! These are more what you might call "natural
child" proponents - and their kids are going to be "natural
children" (by their parent's definition) whether they like it or not!
<G>
And some of these people are very wonderful and nice and enjoyable to
be around, of COURSE, but the rest of us can feel very JUDGED, too,
around them (when our kids start talking about having watched every
episode of "Roseanne" 5 times, for example, and want to have a
lengthy conversation about which Becky was better <G>), because their
kids are so "fine-tuned" and seemingly perfect - I mean, nonorganic
food has never passed through THEIR lips! They're PURE!
Now that I'm older and my kids are older, I no longer feel "judged"
or even uncomfortable about all this stuff - and, Nanci this might
help you when you're faced with it, what I now feel is the STRONG
sense of how much fear these people live in all the time - always
afraid that their kids might be contaminated through exposure to one
thing or another - like tv or pepperoni.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/05 10:08:40 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
homeschoolers who are homeschooling to keep their children from the evil
influences of secular humanist and other satanic forces, and they are thrilled
(and brag about it in their magazines) that homeschooling allows them to control
their children's knowledge of the world.
Limiting a child isn't the way unschooling works as far as I'm concerned, but
consider this shocking thing (I can hardly think about it myself <bwg>):
Some unschoolers don't have computers at all. That means they can never
have read our priceless, flawless definitions of unschooling, AND they can't tell
their kids "google it!" And those who eschew popular culture, their kids
would not only have no way to get to IMBD.com, they would have no need
whatsoever. They could never, ever compare Roxanna to Cyrano de Bergerac.
But those are the extremes.
In the middle ground there are those who say "We're unschooling, except for
math and reading."
"In the AOL days," meaning when the hotbed of unschooling analysis and
sharing was in an extensive AOL forum with live chats, message boards, lists,
newsletters and all, that schism birthed the term "eclectic homeschooling." Those
were the unschoolers who "didn't really unschool" and so they renamed
themselves and made lists and websites.
Just as with any protestantism, though, there will continue to be new schisms
and new subgroupings. That's the way freedom goes.
Anyone's free to say "I'm unschooling." I'm free to consider some to be
more unschooling than others. My opinion's not binding on anyone else.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> -=-what I now feel is the STRONGRight. It's like a freaky parallel universe of the fundamentalist Christian
> sense of how much fear these people live in all the time - always
> afraid that their kids might be contaminated through exposure to one
> thing or another - like tv or pepperoni.-=-
>
homeschoolers who are homeschooling to keep their children from the evil
influences of secular humanist and other satanic forces, and they are thrilled
(and brag about it in their magazines) that homeschooling allows them to control
their children's knowledge of the world.
Limiting a child isn't the way unschooling works as far as I'm concerned, but
consider this shocking thing (I can hardly think about it myself <bwg>):
Some unschoolers don't have computers at all. That means they can never
have read our priceless, flawless definitions of unschooling, AND they can't tell
their kids "google it!" And those who eschew popular culture, their kids
would not only have no way to get to IMBD.com, they would have no need
whatsoever. They could never, ever compare Roxanna to Cyrano de Bergerac.
But those are the extremes.
In the middle ground there are those who say "We're unschooling, except for
math and reading."
"In the AOL days," meaning when the hotbed of unschooling analysis and
sharing was in an extensive AOL forum with live chats, message boards, lists,
newsletters and all, that schism birthed the term "eclectic homeschooling." Those
were the unschoolers who "didn't really unschool" and so they renamed
themselves and made lists and websites.
Just as with any protestantism, though, there will continue to be new schisms
and new subgroupings. That's the way freedom goes.
Anyone's free to say "I'm unschooling." I'm free to consider some to be
more unschooling than others. My opinion's not binding on anyone else.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anastasia Hall
Oooooh! LOL! Ok, now I get it! I'm defiinitely not like that. I just hate offending people, I
guess, not my only personality flaw. I wouldn't want to go around saying I'm an unschooler if I
was doing it wrong; I'd rather say nothing. Of course, that doesn't apply to dh, who doesn't
understand that it's ok the kids won't be sitting down doing worksheets all day if they don't
choose to do so. He can just deal with it! Oh, and he'll be home for lunch in 10 mins. and
catching the kids watching Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith. LOL! Thanks for clearing that up for
me!
Anastasia
--- Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
guess, not my only personality flaw. I wouldn't want to go around saying I'm an unschooler if I
was doing it wrong; I'd rather say nothing. Of course, that doesn't apply to dh, who doesn't
understand that it's ok the kids won't be sitting down doing worksheets all day if they don't
choose to do so. He can just deal with it! Oh, and he'll be home for lunch in 10 mins. and
catching the kids watching Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith. LOL! Thanks for clearing that up for
me!
Anastasia
--- Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
On Nov 9, 2005, at 5:11 AM, Anastasia Hall wrote:
> As a "newly converted" (also zealous and fervent) mom myself, I
> would appreciate if you could
> elaborate on how others are giving unschooling a bad name and going
> overboard, in your opinion.
I'm not the person who wrote that stuff, but I think I can guess what
she means. There are people who unschool (don't use a curriculum for
their homeschooling and don't force lessons on their kids) who
otherwise are EXTREMELY controlling. They NEVER would dream of having
a tv in their house and would ask that their cotton-only wearing
child not be allowed to play video games or watch tv if they were
visiting YOUR house. They don't eat ANY sugar - but probably eat
honey. They are vegetarians and one mom I saw just freaked out when
she realized her little 5 year old had taken a piece of pepperoni
pizza and EATEN it, at a potluck. (In fact, they often can't eat at
potlucks because they have so many food constraints.) When I say,
"freaked out," I mean she screamed and grabbed him and put her
fingers in his mouth to try to get any remains OUT. Some of these
parents become enamored with the idea of a late reader and they keep
books AWAY from their kids and don't support reading - they're
actually proud of having late-reading kids. Often they push the
Waldorfy kinds of activities like weaving and sewing - and their kids
aren't allowed to play with plastic, just wood and cloth toys. Oh,
and of course NO playing guns or other weapons - not even pretending
by pointing a finger! These are more what you might call "natural
child" proponents - and their kids are going to be "natural
children" (by their parent's definition) whether they like it or not!
<G>
And some of these people are very wonderful and nice and enjoyable to
be around, of COURSE, but the rest of us can feel very JUDGED, too,
around them (when our kids start talking about having watched every
episode of "Roseanne" 5 times, for example, and want to have a
lengthy conversation about which Becky was better <G>), because their
kids are so "fine-tuned" and seemingly perfect - I mean, nonorganic
food has never passed through THEIR lips! They're PURE!
Now that I'm older and my kids are older, I no longer feel "judged"
or even uncomfortable about all this stuff - and, Nanci this might
help you when you're faced with it, what I now feel is the STRONG
sense of how much fear these people live in all the time - always
afraid that their kids might be contaminated through exposure to one
thing or another - like tv or pepperoni.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
Robyn Coburn
<<<< I know this question wasn't for me, but I just wanted to say that we
are ALL on our own learning journeys, and I have seen a gambit of
unschoolers, and each will probably provide a variance of what that
means.>>>>>
On these lists we spend a lot of time discussing whether some practice or
attitude of a parent is going to bring them closer to Unschooling or not.
The foundation of our thinking seems to me to be about relationships and a
lifestyle, rather than worrying about "education"
Outside of these lists, for some reason people want to appropriate the label
to themselves, without the rigor of thought and practice that would be
encouraged on these lists.
I rarely challenge people in my local group, but I have in the past when
someone described verbal quizzing (instead of doing the prescribed written
tests) at the end of her son's history "lessons" as "taking an Unschooling
approach". It was so clearly not Unschooling, by any plausible definition.
I thought I was being really gentle and respectful. A firestorm of "that's
just semantics" and "let's all get along" ensued. I used the old who gets to
define "Vegan" if not the actual vegans analogy. The last word was had by
the original poster, who left the discussion with the charming zinger,
clearly directed at me, the only Unschooler: "Well I have heard that
Unschooling is neglect. I'll say no more." I left it to the group to ask
then why, in the name of all logic, do you wish to appropriate the name to
yourself??!!?
Now I refer people to Sandra's site, Joyce's site, the Boards and Danielle's
blog. I leave it to folks to do their own research.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/164 - Release Date: 11/9/2005
are ALL on our own learning journeys, and I have seen a gambit of
unschoolers, and each will probably provide a variance of what that
means.>>>>>
On these lists we spend a lot of time discussing whether some practice or
attitude of a parent is going to bring them closer to Unschooling or not.
The foundation of our thinking seems to me to be about relationships and a
lifestyle, rather than worrying about "education"
Outside of these lists, for some reason people want to appropriate the label
to themselves, without the rigor of thought and practice that would be
encouraged on these lists.
I rarely challenge people in my local group, but I have in the past when
someone described verbal quizzing (instead of doing the prescribed written
tests) at the end of her son's history "lessons" as "taking an Unschooling
approach". It was so clearly not Unschooling, by any plausible definition.
I thought I was being really gentle and respectful. A firestorm of "that's
just semantics" and "let's all get along" ensued. I used the old who gets to
define "Vegan" if not the actual vegans analogy. The last word was had by
the original poster, who left the discussion with the charming zinger,
clearly directed at me, the only Unschooler: "Well I have heard that
Unschooling is neglect. I'll say no more." I left it to the group to ask
then why, in the name of all logic, do you wish to appropriate the name to
yourself??!!?
Now I refer people to Sandra's site, Joyce's site, the Boards and Danielle's
blog. I leave it to folks to do their own research.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/164 - Release Date: 11/9/2005
Gold Standard
Thanks for that clarification Sandra!
Dang you know a lot...
:)
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of SandraDodd@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Misunderstanding Unschooling?...
Sorry; one of those things...
"I have seen the gamut" means all kinds from one end to the other.
"The gambit" means a tricky move.
I don't think anyone has seen unschoolers make a risky, tricky move.
Unless the whole of unschooling seems a risky, tricky move. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Dang you know a lot...
:)
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of SandraDodd@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Misunderstanding Unschooling?...
> I have seen a gambit of unschoolers,the gamut
>
Sorry; one of those things...
"I have seen the gamut" means all kinds from one end to the other.
"The gambit" means a tricky move.
I don't think anyone has seen unschoolers make a risky, tricky move.
Unless the whole of unschooling seems a risky, tricky move. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/05 1:32:39 PM, jacki@... writes:
my favorite toys. <g>
Comes from reading dictionaries and messing with google, I guess. <g>
Years of reading under the desk in school. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Dang you know a lot...Words, words, words...
>
my favorite toys. <g>
Comes from reading dictionaries and messing with google, I guess. <g>
Years of reading under the desk in school. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gold Standard
>>Years of reading under the desk in school. <g>>>Ah yes...where the REAL learning happens in school...
I used to compose poetry there when I was supposed to be, uh, doing
something...can't really remember what <g>
Jacki
katherand2003
I know someone rather well. She used to call herself an unschooler
but has recently settled on eclectic. Doesn't matter-- as her
approach stinks. Her 9 year daughter hates to read but she insists on
making her read a certain amount everyday. The poor child will
probably hate reading forever. She used to admire her mother but
lately she seems a little surly. I consider her a fellow artist, and
her brother to be a marvel, and the 5 year old daughter is a peach.
The mother doesn't quite see these things the way I do or the
possibility of relating to children differently. You see there's a
culturally accepted standard for how one talks down to children. I
don't think she relates respectful to herself either. That's another
thing.
True, she isn't using a curriculum but gives assignments and gave even
more assignments when she considered herself an unschooler. She
spanks and yells--- not a believer in gentle parenting, and while that
isn't directly related, it's a bit antithetical to trusting your kids
to learn on their own or enriching their environment.
I listen to her commentary to her kids and watch her behavior with my
chin firmly picked up off the floor at all times and my opinion kept
to myself for the most part but it's oppressive if she could but see
it. I, "little miss crunchier than thou" (LUV that) that I am, would
never be able to influence her by telling her what to do or think or
feel. I may not be able to influence her ANYway, and sometimes I
don't care. The least interesting thing coming from me would be the
true definition of "unschooler."
Kathe
but has recently settled on eclectic. Doesn't matter-- as her
approach stinks. Her 9 year daughter hates to read but she insists on
making her read a certain amount everyday. The poor child will
probably hate reading forever. She used to admire her mother but
lately she seems a little surly. I consider her a fellow artist, and
her brother to be a marvel, and the 5 year old daughter is a peach.
The mother doesn't quite see these things the way I do or the
possibility of relating to children differently. You see there's a
culturally accepted standard for how one talks down to children. I
don't think she relates respectful to herself either. That's another
thing.
True, she isn't using a curriculum but gives assignments and gave even
more assignments when she considered herself an unschooler. She
spanks and yells--- not a believer in gentle parenting, and while that
isn't directly related, it's a bit antithetical to trusting your kids
to learn on their own or enriching their environment.
I listen to her commentary to her kids and watch her behavior with my
chin firmly picked up off the floor at all times and my opinion kept
to myself for the most part but it's oppressive if she could but see
it. I, "little miss crunchier than thou" (LUV that) that I am, would
never be able to influence her by telling her what to do or think or
feel. I may not be able to influence her ANYway, and sometimes I
don't care. The least interesting thing coming from me would be the
true definition of "unschooler."
Kathe
--- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@b...> wrote:
>
> Hi Nanci,
>
> Could you give some examples of what you are talking about? You seem
to have
> some strong opinions about a generalized group of people, and I
don't have
> much success in knowing how to respond to that. Could you give an
example of
> something that happened that bothered you?
>
> Thanks,
> Jacki
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Nanci Kuykendall
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:44 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Misunderstanding Unschooling?...
>
>
> Hi all. I have not posted in a while. Lately I have
> been really involved in both local/in person and
> online support and activities for parents with special
> needs kids, particularly those homeschooling special
> needs kids.
>
> I've found an interesting and somewhat disturbing
> phenomenon to be pretty common among these groups.
> There seem to be a good number of rabid self described
> "unschoolers" out there who are not only scaring peole
> away and turning people off to unschooling, but also
> in my opinion giving us unschoolers, and unschooling
> in general, a bad name. It's possible that we're
> talking about the zeal of the "newly converted" with
> these people (mostly women) who in their fervor go
> somewhat overboard. But I think there is also an
> element of misunderstanding exactly what unschooling
> is. I thought I would run this idea by this group and
> see what your thoughts and experiences are.
>
> The overwhelmingly prevalent attitude I've run into
> among other homeschoolers is to mistakenly believe
> that unschoolers "can't" use books, textbooks,
> curriculums, classes, and so forth. That's not all
> that surprising, that other homeschoolers don't really
> "get" unschooling. But what has surprised me is how
> many people who call themselves unschoolers don't seem
> to really get it either. It seems that some folks
> just trade one type of controls for another, not to
> mention the fact that they seem to be rather
> sanctimonious and overbearing towards others who don't
> unschool.
>
> Now, it's my understanding of unschooling that
> anything you (you as the learner) want, need, or
> choose freely to use for your own "education," or just
> to experience, is just dandy. I usually explain
> unschooling to others as not a homeschooling style,
> but rather a lifestyle and a basic different view of
> how learning happens and of relationships within a
> family, and having a lot to do with trusting and
> respecting children as people. I realize this may
> just be related to certain types of personalities, but
> does it seem to you folks that there is a general
> misunderstanding of what unschooling is among
> unschoolers?
>
> Nanci K.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
katherand2003
Now that needs to be my sig quote really. If I can just get the darn
email program to work I could do it. Buggy Thunderbird. Doesn't go
with Yahoo.
Kathe
--- In [email protected], Nancy Wooton <nancywooton@c...>
wrote:
email program to work I could do it. Buggy Thunderbird. Doesn't go
with Yahoo.
Kathe
--- In [email protected], Nancy Wooton <nancywooton@c...>
wrote:
>
>
> No one means all he says, and yet very few say all they mean, for words
> are slippery and thought is viscous.
> -Henry Brooks Adams, historian (1838-1918)
>
katherand2003
I had a great picture in my head of someone sitting underneath a desk
while in school, reading. Then I thought maybe she means she had a
book in her lap she was sneaking peeks at during class. Either way,
it would be a way to escape school despite being there bodily.
Reminds me of Thoreau's assertion of freedom even though he sat in jail.
Kathe
while in school, reading. Then I thought maybe she means she had a
book in her lap she was sneaking peeks at during class. Either way,
it would be a way to escape school despite being there bodily.
Reminds me of Thoreau's assertion of freedom even though he sat in jail.
Kathe
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 11/9/05 1:32:39 PM, jacki@b... writes:
>
>
> > Dang you know a lot...
> >
>
> Words, words, words...
> my favorite toys. <g>
>
> Comes from reading dictionaries and messing with google, I guess. <g>
> Years of reading under the desk in school. <g>
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/17/05 10:51:32 PM, katherand2003@... writes:
book on the desktop, one in my lap. My gaze is down (good enough for the
teacher) and peripheral vision helped me turn the page when the others turned it
(and I would spend a stage-moment looking with interest at the photos and
section headings, in case she was looking--I'd always already seen the photos and
read the book anyway, but I would pretend it was new an interesting for a
couple of seconds, and then go back to my "real" book).
In 8th grade (I was 13, for the benefit of british-system readers), I made a
deal with myself NOT to read ahead in my books. I thought maybe it would
make school more interesting, and my participation more "fair" (for the other
kids? for me?). It was hard to maintain, as I sometimes took the books home
for homework (NOT OFTEN, though, because I could finish it there or after school
before my bus came, as I was on a second route). I didn't make it all
year. Sometimes a reader just gots t'read. The geography book was the one
that was really hard not to read ahead in.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I had a great picture in my head of someone sitting underneath a deskYes, it was the two-things-at-once habit I've maintained my whole life. One
> while in school, reading. Then I thought maybe she means she had a
> book in her lap she was sneaking peeks at during class.
>
book on the desktop, one in my lap. My gaze is down (good enough for the
teacher) and peripheral vision helped me turn the page when the others turned it
(and I would spend a stage-moment looking with interest at the photos and
section headings, in case she was looking--I'd always already seen the photos and
read the book anyway, but I would pretend it was new an interesting for a
couple of seconds, and then go back to my "real" book).
In 8th grade (I was 13, for the benefit of british-system readers), I made a
deal with myself NOT to read ahead in my books. I thought maybe it would
make school more interesting, and my participation more "fair" (for the other
kids? for me?). It was hard to maintain, as I sometimes took the books home
for homework (NOT OFTEN, though, because I could finish it there or after school
before my bus came, as I was on a second route). I didn't make it all
year. Sometimes a reader just gots t'read. The geography book was the one
that was really hard not to read ahead in.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anastasia Hall
I had a teacher in college who would catch me reading ahead and deliberately ask me questions
during his lecture. I wasn't quite as sneaky as you. I think I shocked him when I could read and
pay attention to the lecture or discussion and answer the question with at least modicum of
understanding, all the while reading about something entirely off-topic. Amusing...
Anastasia
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
---------------------------------
In a message dated 11/17/05 10:51:32 PM, katherand2003@... writes:
book on the desktop, one in my lap. My gaze is down (good enough for the
teacher) and peripheral vision helped me turn the page when the others turned it
(and I would spend a stage-moment looking with interest at the photos and
section headings, in case she was looking--I'd always already seen the photos and
read the book anyway, but I would pretend it was new an interesting for a
couple of seconds, and then go back to my "real" book).
during his lecture. I wasn't quite as sneaky as you. I think I shocked him when I could read and
pay attention to the lecture or discussion and answer the question with at least modicum of
understanding, all the while reading about something entirely off-topic. Amusing...
Anastasia
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
---------------------------------
In a message dated 11/17/05 10:51:32 PM, katherand2003@... writes:
> I had a great picture in my head of someone sitting underneath a deskYes, it was the two-things-at-once habit I've maintained my whole life. One
> while in school, reading. Then I thought maybe she means she had a
> book in her lap she was sneaking peeks at during class.
>
book on the desktop, one in my lap. My gaze is down (good enough for the
teacher) and peripheral vision helped me turn the page when the others turned it
(and I would spend a stage-moment looking with interest at the photos and
section headings, in case she was looking--I'd always already seen the photos and
read the book anyway, but I would pretend it was new an interesting for a
couple of seconds, and then go back to my "real" book).
sam
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
notes, which I also did. If we were reading as a class, I would read
ahead, and I was usually good at finding my place when I was called to
read. Other than homework, I couldn't be bothered to read the text
books outside of school. However, I've always been an avid reader.
I'd happily read ahead in class, but never outside of school. At home
it was all Louis L'Amour and Hardy Boys. I think I learned more from
Louis L'Amour than I did from school.
This story just came to me. We were assigned one year to read The
Scarlet Letter. I didn't read the book till after the test and passed
with a pretty good grade. During in class discussion I would try to
answer questions, and if I was patient, could actually do a good job
just from listening to the general discussion of the book. By the
time we were supposed to have finished and then took the test, I was
actually interested enough to read it and enjoyed it.
>I'd always already seen the photos and
> read the book anyway, but I would pretend it was new an interestingfor a
> couple of seconds, and then go back to my "real" book).I would always draw in class. If you are writing, you must be taking
>
notes, which I also did. If we were reading as a class, I would read
ahead, and I was usually good at finding my place when I was called to
read. Other than homework, I couldn't be bothered to read the text
books outside of school. However, I've always been an avid reader.
I'd happily read ahead in class, but never outside of school. At home
it was all Louis L'Amour and Hardy Boys. I think I learned more from
Louis L'Amour than I did from school.
This story just came to me. We were assigned one year to read The
Scarlet Letter. I didn't read the book till after the test and passed
with a pretty good grade. During in class discussion I would try to
answer questions, and if I was patient, could actually do a good job
just from listening to the general discussion of the book. By the
time we were supposed to have finished and then took the test, I was
actually interested enough to read it and enjoyed it.