momtotyandlog1

I "homeschooled" my son (almost 9) for half a year last year and for
this year too. I have done some unschooling (a couple weeks) then I
got nervous and went back to the homeschooling.

I have a couple questions you may be able to help me with.

First, my son loves to be with me, and I with him. But without an
activity handed to him, he will want me to amuse him at all times.
Although it is so much better than it used to be, he will still ask
for the 2 hours of the babys nap to play with me the whole time,
thereby stealing all of the only time that i have for anything else.
And if I say no, i just wind up feeling so guilty that i go and play.
That is one of the reasons we went back to structure. I enjoy playing
with my son quite a bit, but 2 hours of pretending to be the
zookeeper for a fort zoo is toooooooooo much. How do you handle this
type of thing ?

Second, when i was unschooling I saw that my son got very, snotty i
guess is the only way to put it with him friends. He seemed to get
the notion he was above them and that he was smarter, and it
reflected in his relationships. I dont know if that is just because
his self esteem is so good that he is just going to relate taht way
for awhile or what. Any info would help !

Thanks
Candy

[email protected]

If the links don't work, you could go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
and read it there, and I think from there the links will be active.

First, the list you probably need is UnschoolingBasics, and there's a link
here:
http://sandradodd.com/links/other

But there are probably people willing to discuss it here too!


> -=-I "homeschooled" my son (almost 9) for half a year last year and for
> this year too. I have done some unschooling (a couple weeks) then I
> got nervous and went back to the homeschooling.-=-
>
A couple of weeks is insufficient for either of you to have gotten anywhere
near unschooling, unfortunately, so I don't think you should claim to have done
any unschooling. We can help you get there, but nobody will get there in
two weeks.

Here's a short article on deschooling with lots of links to other people's
deschooling suggestions:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

-=- But without an activity handed to him, he will want me to amuse him at
all times.-=-

If you're thinking of "an activity" as something to be handed to him, I'm
guessing you're "doing schoolwork" and this involves some kind of pencil and
paper. Not very good.

Why isn't your son in school? Did he want to come home?

-=-he will still ask
for the 2 hours of the babys nap to play with me the whole time,
thereby stealing all of the only time that i have for anything else.-=-

"Steal"?
He's "stealing" your time?

Are you sure you wouldn't rather have him in school so you have some time for
yourself?

If you want to have him home, you need to make home richly interesting. He
needs dozens of choices of things to do, not an activity handed to him.

-=-And if I say no, i just wind up feeling so guilty that i go and play.-=-

There is something really wonderful about the joys and benefits of saying
yes, written by Joyce Fetteroll. It's linked here:

http://sandradodd.com/yes







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Oops. I sent that before I was finished.

School at home won't take less time. It will take more, and it will stress
your relationship. If you want to unschool, drop that like a hot rock.

-=-Second, when i was unschooling I saw that my son got very, snotty i
guess is the only way to put it with him friends.-=-

"Snotty" can't be the only way to put it.

Maybe he was relieved to be out of school and he was showing that joy. It
will help loads if you think of your child in the nicest possible terms, and
look for the benefits rather than the inconveniences.

-=-He seemed to get
the notion he was above them and that he was smarter, and it
reflected in his relationships.-=-

Advise him on being a gracious host, and on being welcoming, and on playing
with the other kids where and how they want to play, before asking them to do
something he's wanting to do.

Read as much as you can stand to of what's already out there for you. Joyce
Fetteroll has just put up a new page that's very easy to navigate:
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Efetteroll/rejoycing/

That might be the best first stop.

Check here too:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling

Sandra


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momtotyandlog1

Boy that was a rude response. ARe you trying to get me to do it or
put him back in school ? What kind of support was that ?

Yes I DO have other things to do. Maybe you have a maid, etc, but i
do not. My husband works all the time and is very unhelpful. Excuse
me if I do have to do laundry now and again.

Man....


--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> If the links don't work, you could go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
> and read it there, and I think from there the links will be active.
>
> First, the list you probably need is UnschoolingBasics, and there's
a link
> here:
> http://sandradodd.com/links/other
>
> But there are probably people willing to discuss it here too!
>
>
> > -=-I "homeschooled" my son (almost 9) for half a year last year
and for
> > this year too. I have done some unschooling (a couple weeks) then
I
> > got nervous and went back to the homeschooling.-=-
> >
> A couple of weeks is insufficient for either of you to have gotten
anywhere
> near unschooling, unfortunately, so I don't think you should claim
to have done
> any unschooling. We can help you get there, but nobody will get
there in
> two weeks.
>
> Here's a short article on deschooling with lots of links to other
people's
> deschooling suggestions:
> http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
>
> -=- But without an activity handed to him, he will want me to amuse
him at
> all times.-=-
>
> If you're thinking of "an activity" as something to be handed to
him, I'm
> guessing you're "doing schoolwork" and this involves some kind of
pencil and
> paper. Not very good.
>
> Why isn't your son in school? Did he want to come home?
>
> -=-he will still ask
> for the 2 hours of the babys nap to play with me the whole time,
> thereby stealing all of the only time that i have for anything
else.-=-
>
> "Steal"?
> He's "stealing" your time?
>
> Are you sure you wouldn't rather have him in school so you have
some time for
> yourself?
>
> If you want to have him home, you need to make home richly
interesting. He
> needs dozens of choices of things to do, not an activity handed to
him.
>
> -=-And if I say no, i just wind up feeling so guilty that i go and
play.-=-
>
> There is something really wonderful about the joys and benefits of
saying
> yes, written by Joyce Fetteroll. It's linked here:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/yes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-=-
Of course i love to be with my son or he would be in school !
-=-

He's out of school for some reason you didn't tell us. That would help.

Did he want to come home?

"Why" is more important than what or how in any discussions of human emotion
and motive.

Sandra


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Nancy Wooton

On Sep 18, 2005, at 5:22 PM, momtotyandlog1 wrote:

> I "homeschooled" my son (almost 9) for half a year last year and for
> this year too.

Why do you put "homeschooled" in quotes? If your child is not
attending full-time school, either private or public, are you doing
something else, like a public school independent study program?

> I have done some unschooling (a couple weeks) then I
> got nervous and went back to the homeschooling.
>

Do you understand what unschooling is? I tend to not think of it as
something I "do," but as something my kids don't "do," i.e., school.
That doesn't mean they do nothing at all, although with teens you have
to be nocturnal to observe this <g>

> I have a couple questions you may be able to help me with.
>
> First, my son loves to be with me, and I with him. But without an
> activity handed to him, he will want me to amuse him at all times.
> Although it is so much better than it used to be, he will still ask
> for the 2 hours of the babys nap to play with me the whole time,

Of course. That's his only alone time with the only mom he has, if a
baby has come along and "stolen" her from him.

> thereby stealing all of the only time that i have for anything else.

Oh dear, more thievery ;-)

> And if I say no, i just wind up feeling so guilty that i go and play.

Why not just say "yes"? Go play. The housework can wait, or you can
make it part of the play. I used to race my son to see who could put
Legos in the bucket, not only fastest, but loudest!

> That is one of the reasons we went back to structure. I enjoy playing
> with my son quite a bit, but 2 hours of pretending to be the
> zookeeper for a fort zoo is toooooooooo much. How do you handle this
> type of thing ?

Have you tried giving him totally, without guilt or any kind of
negativity, your total self for as long as he wants? That's what I'd
do. I would be absolutely his, for, say, an hour and a half; show him
how to read the clock. Then let him know that when that time is up, he
may help you mop the floor or clean the bathroom or whatever (and let
him, if he chooses you and a chore over being alone). You may find
that, having satisfied his need not only *for* you but to know he can
trust you, his demands on your time and attention will decrease. You
have to be patient, though, and absolutely cheerful and sincere; no
sighing and clockwatching. If zookeeping isn't your thing, after
awhile, suggest something else, but still -- if it's within his time,
it's fair to do what he wants.

>
> Second, when i was unschooling I saw that my son got very, snotty i
> guess is the only way to put it with him friends. He seemed to get
> the notion he was above them and that he was smarter, and it
> reflected in his relationships. I dont know if that is just because
> his self esteem is so good that he is just going to relate taht way
> for awhile or what. Any info would help !

Did you know most convicted felons rate very highly on self-esteem
scales? Esteeming *others* is a better way to make friends.

You might need to teach him to be polite, before his friends start
dumping him.

There is one other thing to consider: his friends could be hassling
him, and he's defending himself. My kids were often quizzed by school
kids, who couldn't believe somebody else got off without having to
endure the torment of school. It was their way of making themselves
feel better (and it was ALWAYS math questions, usually far above their
own class's level).

Hope that helps,
Nancy

nellebelle

>>>>>>>>>>Boy that was a rude response. ARe you trying to get me to do it or
put him back in school ? What kind of support was that ?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It seems that increasingly people are finding this list and joining as beginning unschoolers, or wanna-be unschoolers, not realizing that discussions assume that people already understand and embrace unschooling. I could be wrong, but that is my understanding from the list description:

"Discussion for homeschooling fans of John Holt, whose books Learning All the Time, Never Too Late, and Teach your Own have made unschooling a sweet and viable option for thousands of families. This is a moderated group, with trapdoors for the uncooperative. (Not moderated in the advance-approval way, but in the be-nice-to-play way.) It's an idea group and is intended to lean more toward pure unschooling than neutral, general homeschooling discussion-there are hundreds of general homeschooling discussions for newcomers. It's to focus more toward how people learn no matter where in the world they are, rather than on what's legal in any particular country or jurisdiction. If you have questions or complaints, write to SandraDodd@... "
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/

Mary Ellen

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nellebelle

>>>>>>>>>> -=-he will still ask for the 2 hours of the babys nap to play with me the whole time, thereby stealing all of the only time that i have for anything else.-=->>>>>>>>>>>>>

I vividly remember how challenging life is with a baby in the house. And all those mothers of no-longer-babies would say the housework will wait. Your baby won't.

The same is true for 5 year olds and 10 year olds and teenagers.

Children really do grow up so fast. Your son will be 9 for only one year. Housework and laundry will always be there waiting for you <g>. Your son won't.

Mary Ellen



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Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 18, 2005, at 8:22 PM, momtotyandlog1 wrote:

> But without an
> activity handed to him, he will want me to amuse him at all times.

For some kids, some people for that matter, the important part of an
activity isn't the activity but sharing it with someone else.

For some people being faced with a world of being able to do anything
you want is intimidating. There are too many choices.

As a child I enjoyed watching my father work on building projects
around the house. But as an adult I find doing them myself isn't
nearly as much fun. I'd much rather help someone else.

I know the feelings you're going through. You want someone to tell
you how to get him to change so you can get what you want. But the
truth is that you can't do that without hurting him and hurting your
relationship.

> Although it is so much better than it used to be, he will still ask
> for the 2 hours of the babys nap to play with me the whole time,

Well, look at it from his point of view. He used to have you all to
himself. Now he has to share you with the baby. But when that daily
opportunity comes when he can pretend it's still just the two of you
you want to work it so you're away from him.

> thereby stealing all of the only time that i have for anything else.

Get up earlier. Go to bed later. Hire someone. Get a mother's helper
to spend some time with your son. Invite other kids over. Help him
find friends so he's out of the house for a bit. Rethink the task you
have to do. Someone said they only used just enough dishes for one
meal so she had to wash them right away so she never had a huge pile
of dishes to do. Some people store their clothes in the laundry in
bins and hanging racks so doing the laundry is *much* easier.

It's easy to dismiss the ideas because it would be easier and more
convenient if he'd just change, but you won't be able to get him to
change. If you make his happy childhood your priority you'll find
ways to make things simpler.

> And if I say no, i just wind up feeling so guilty that i go and play.

That's your heart speaking. Listen to it.

When he looks back on his childhood he's going to have either the
impression that you were always there for him or that you were always
too busy. You *can't* get him to see the importance of the tasks
around the house. He's not old enough. He can only interpret "I have
other things that need done," as saying other things are more
important than he is. And it's going to be especially hard if you're
saying during the only time he sees that you belong to him.

> That is one of the reasons we went back to structure. I enjoy playing
> with my son quite a bit, but 2 hours of pretending to be the
> zookeeper for a fort zoo is toooooooooo much. How do you handle this
> type of thing ?

By telling him that it isn't your favorite thing to do but you'll do
it for 30 minutes. Before he asks, maybe in the morning, tell him
that you'd like to find some other things to do during the 2 hours of
the baby's nap because you have a hard time playing zoo keeper that
long. Make a list. That way he knows what's coming.

> Second, when i was unschooling I saw that my son got very, snotty i
> guess is the only way to put it with him friends.

That could be a reaction to extreme stress. It's a 5 yo version of
"Thank goodness I don't have to do that stuff anymore!"

Wild animals who've been caged tend to bolt if they get the chance.

> He seemed to get
> the notion he was above them and that he was smarter, and it
> reflected in his relationships.

I wouldn't project adult motivations on a child. I child who says "I
hate you!" isn't saying the same thing as an adult. They're coming
from a totally different mindset.

Be his partner. Help him be a better friend. Help him find better
ways to relieve his stress.

Joyce

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